SYMHC Classics: Six Impossible Episodes - Other Ins

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class: SYMHC Classics - Six Impossible Episodes - Other Ins

Release Date: February 22, 2025
Hosts: Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson
Podcast by iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this special "SYMHC Classics" episode titled "Six Impossible Episodes - Other Ins," hosts Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson delve into a collection of pivotal yet often overlooked protest movements in American history. These "impossible episodes" explore various forms of direct action, from sit-ins and sip-ins to fish-ins and teach-ins, highlighting their unique strategies, challenges, and impacts on civil rights and social justice.

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1. The Alexandria Library Sit-In (1939)

Overview:
Holly and Tracy kick off with the 1939 Alexandria Library Sit-In, one of the earliest civil rights actions preceding the more famous sit-ins of the 1960s.

Key Points:

• Participants: Five young Black men—William Evans, Otto L. Tucker, Edward Gaddis, Morris Murray, and Clarence Strange—aged 19 to 22.
• Action: Individually applied for library cards at a whites-only library. When denied, they sat down with books to assert their right to use the facility.
• Outcome: Instead of integrating the library, Alexandria swiftly established a separate library for Black patrons, the Robert H. Robinson Library, which opened in 1940.
• Legacy: The sit-in was a precursor to later civil rights strategies that combined direct action with legal challenges.

Notable Quote:
Tracy V. Wilson at [09:51]:
"One of the really interesting things about this sit-in is that it used the same strategy that the NAACP and other civil rights organizations were using really extensively later on."

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2. Mattachine Society Sip-Ins (1966)

Overview:
The hosts discuss the Mattachine Society's strategic sip-ins aimed at challenging discriminatory regulations in New York City's bars.

Key Points:

• Participants: Dick Leisch, Craig Rodwell, John Tim, and Randy Wicker.
• Action: Entered bars, declared their homosexuality, and refused to leave, aiming to be denied service as a basis for legal action.
• Outcome: The protest led to the NY Court of Appeals ruling that "homosexuality was not inherently disorderly," challenging previous assumptions that fueled discriminatory practices.
• Impact: Although not ending discrimination entirely, it marked a significant legal victory for LGBTQ rights.

Notable Quote:
Holly Fry at [12:11]:
"The bartender had already put glasses in front of them and covered them with his hand, saying, 'I can't serve you.'"

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3. Fish-Ins in the Pacific Northwest (1960s-1970s)

Overview:
Holly and Tracy explore the Fish-In movement, a series of protests by Indigenous peoples asserting their treaty rights to fish in traditionally used waters.

Key Points:

• Origins: Stemmed from 19th-century treaties guaranteeing fishing rights, which were increasingly infringed upon by state regulations and conservation laws.
• Action: Demonstrators engaged in direct actions at fishing sites, often facing harassment, arrests, and violence from authorities.
• Support: Garnered backing from allies like the NAACP and celebrities such as Marlon Brando.
• Legal Outcomes: The Bolt decision (1974) affirmed Indigenous fishing rights, allowing tribes to claim 50% of available fish catch.
• Challenges: Continued opposition from non-Indigenous fishers and limitations in the ruling, excluding certain tribes.

Notable Quote:
Tracy V. Wilson at [23:17]:
"What you won't see if you look at this photo online is that by the time that happened, a crowd of about 3,300 angry spectators... had also gathered around the building."

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4. Section 504 Sit-In (1977)

Overview:
The discussion moves to the disability rights movement, focusing on the pivotal 1977 Section 504 Sit-In demanding enforcement of anti-discrimination regulations.

Key Points:

• Legislation: Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, the first federal civil rights law for people with disabilities.
• Issue: Despite the law, regulations outlining its implementation were stalled by the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW).
• Action: Activists from the American Coalition of Citizens with Disabilities organized sit-ins at HEW offices, occupying federal buildings for days.
• Conditions: Demonstrators faced harsh living conditions but received support from various organizations and allies.
• Outcome: HEW Secretary Joseph Califano signed the regulations on April 28, 1977, establishing clear anti-discrimination guidelines.
• Legacy: Laid the groundwork for the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.

Notable Quote:
Holly Fry at [38:36]:
"Through the sit-in, we turned ourselves from being oppressed individuals into being empowered people. We demonstrated to the entire nation that disabled people could take control over our own lives and take leadership in the struggle for equality."

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5. ACT UP’s AIDS Activism (1987-Present)

Overview:
The hosts examine the activism of ACT UP (AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power) in the fight against the AIDS epidemic during the 1980s and beyond.

Key Points:

• Formation: Established in 1987 in response to the slow governmental response to the AIDS crisis.
• Actions: Known for aggressive tactics like die-ins, protests at pharmaceutical companies, and public demonstrations to demand medical advancements and policy changes.
• Impact: Influenced significant reductions in drug prices (e.g., AZT), increased funding for AIDS research, and greater public awareness.
• Controversies: Some actions, such as protesting inside St. Patrick's Cathedral, generated mixed reactions and debates over tactics.
• Continuing Legacy: ACT UP remains active, addressing ongoing issues related to AIDS and healthcare.

Notable Quote:
Tracy V. Wilson at [47:53]:
"People couldn't wait that long... someone who was HIV positive could be in a study where they would be given a placebo."

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6. Teach-Ins During the Vietnam War (1965)

Overview:
Finally, Holly and Tracy discuss the Teach-In movement as an educational form of protest against the Vietnam War.

Key Points:

• Origins: Began in 1965 at the University of Michigan as a response to increased U.S. military involvement in Vietnam.
• Action: Instead of striking or walkouts, professors and students conducted all-night teach-ins featuring lectures and discussions on U.S. foreign policy and the impacts of the war.
• Expansion: Spread to institutions like Columbia University and the University of California, Berkeley, culminating in large national events.
• Impact: Fostered informed debate, influenced public opinion, and served as a precursor to more radical anti-war actions.
• Decline: The movement waned as anti-war activism became more militant and Teach-Ins were viewed as too conservative by some activists.

Notable Quote:
Tracy V. Wilson at [55:01]:
"The Teach Ins were born in protest against United States policy in Vietnam. However, they are vehicles for a larger purpose. They are a means of discussion and debate without which democracy lacks significance."

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Conclusion

In "Six Impossible Episodes - Other Ins," Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson shed light on diverse and significant protest movements that have shaped American civil rights and social justice landscapes. From early library sit-ins and strategic sip-ins challenging discrimination, to spirited fish-ins asserting Indigenous rights, pivotal disability rights sit-ins, relentless AIDS activism by ACT UP, and educational Teach-Ins opposing the Vietnam War, each episode exemplifies the power of direct action in advocating for equality and systemic change.

This comprehensive exploration not only underscores the varied strategies employed by different movements but also highlights the enduring legacy of their efforts in contemporary social justice initiatives.

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Listen to "SYMHC Classics: Six Impossible Episodes - Other Ins" on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Holly Fry]

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[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarki.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Holly Fry]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarki]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Arturo Castro]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, and Joseph Gordon Levitt.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I love storytelling and I so I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Emila, host of the podcast Crumbs. For years, I had to rely on other people to tell me my story, and what I heard wasn't good. You really Last night, it felt like I lived most of my life in a blackout. I was trapped in addiction. I had to grab the lamp and smashed it against the walls. And then I decided I wanted to tell my Listen to crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Happy Saturday. I don't think we've done an installment of six Impossible Episodes as a Saturday classic before. Maybe we have, but I think today is a first. This classic is inspired by a lawsuit that has been filed by 17 states regarding section 504 of the Rehabilitation act of 1973. This filing is initially focused on the Biden Administration's inclusion of gender dysphoria as a protected disability under this act. But the lawsuit also argues that section 504 itself is unconstitutional. So with today's language, section 504 begins quote no otherwise qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall, solely by reason of his or her disability, be excluded from the participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance or under any program or activity conducted by any executive agency or by the United States Postal Service.

[Holly Fry]

We have Talked about Section 504 and how disabled people, supported by a broad coalition of allies, successfully demonstrated for the US Government to actually write the regulations needed to implement and enforce this law four years after it had been passed. That was in our episode 6 Impossible episodes other Ends As a note, Judy Heumann, who we talked about in this episode, died on March 4, 2023.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This episode originally came out February 5, 2020, so enjoy.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I started talking immediately as I could see that Holly was taking a drink of water. So not long ago on the podcast we talked about the sit in movement in the United States of 1960s, and today we're kind of coming back to that theme with an addition of six Impossible episodes. For listeners who are new to our show, this is when we take a shorter look at six topics that, for one reason or another, we can't quite tackle as a standalone episode. That can be for all kinds of reasons, including how much information is available and how broad the topic itself is. This time we are looking at what I'm just calling other ends, so other direct action demonstrations and similar protests that have some similarities to that sit in movement that we talked about earlier. A couple of today's topics might have worked as whole episodes, but I really like having them as part of this collection because together they illustrate a wide variety of ways that these kinds of demonstrations have worked in the United States. They point out some similarities and differences in these movements, so we're keeping them all together today.

[Holly Fry]

And our first event took place in Alexandria, Virginia. A lot of articles about it today call it the Alexandria Library Sit in, but accounts and newspaper reports from the time described it as a sit down strike. On August 21, 1939, a group of young black men tried to get library cards at the whites only library on Queen street in Alexandria, Virginia, which is the Kate Waller Barrett branch library today. Their names were William Evans, Otto L. Tucker, Edward Gaddis, Morris Murray, and Clarence Strange, and they were all between the ages of 19 and 22.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So they each came into the library one at a time and asked Alice Green, who was the assistant librarian on duty, if they could register for a library card. She told each of them no, that the library was for White's only. And then from there, each of them would pick a book from the stacks and then sit down at a table to read it, or at least to try to read. Later on, some of them gave interviews where they talked about being way too nervous to actually concentrate on what was on the page. So once one person had gotten a book and sat down, the next person would come in and do the same thing.

[Holly Fry]

With five black men sitting at five different tables in the library and refusing to leave, Greene wasn't sure what to do. She sent the library's page, William Adam, to the home of the head librarian, Catherine Scoggin, to tell her what was going on. Scoggin went to City hall to discuss what was happening with the city planner and the chief of police.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Soon, police were on the scene of the Library. And a sixth participant in this, who was 14 year old Bobby Strange, had been tasked with keeping watch over the library and then going to get attorney Samuel Wilbert Tucker, known as SW from his law office, which was nearby when the police got there.

[Holly Fry]

S.W. tucker had graduated from Howard University in 1933, studied law on his own, and passed the Virginia bar exam at the age of only 20, a year too young to actually be sworn in. He had arranged the sit down strike at the library and his brother Otto was one of the people sitting in back. In 1927, S.W. and Otto had been arrested after refusing to give up their seat on a trolley to a white passenger. So they already had some experience in civil dis. SW&A friend had also been denied library cards shortly after the library opened. He was hoping to use that as part of a court case to force the library to integrate. The sit in was part of that plan as well.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

SW Tucker had also gotten a photographer to document the scene, and that photographer captured a picture of the demonstrators being escorted out of the building by police. What you won't see if you look at this photo online is that by the time that happened, a crowd of about 3, 300 angry spectators, along with some other reporters, had also gathered around the building. The demonstrators were charged with disorderly conduct And Tucker arranged for their release from jail.

[Holly Fry]

In terms of Tucker's legal action, the library was taxpayer funded and black residents paid taxes but weren't allowed to use it. So his hope was that the courts would force the library to allow equal access to black residents. But rather than integrate the library, the city of Alexandria rushed through approvals for a new library for black patrons, the Robert H. Robinson Library, which opened on February 14, 1940.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

When S.W. tucker got a letter inviting him to register for a library card at that branch, he answered with a refusal, insisting that he be issued the card he had already applied for at the library that had already existed. He went on to write, quote, continued delay beyond the close of this month in issuing me a card for use. The library on Queen street will be taken as refusal to do so, whereupon I feel justified in seeking aid of court to enforce my right.

[Holly Fry]

Tucker went on to become the lead lawyer for the NAACP in Virginia. During his legal career, he argued before the US Supreme Court several times, including in the attempts to overturn public school segregation in Virginia. Today, an elementary school in Alexandria is named in his honor, and the former Robinson Library is the Alexandria Black history museum. In October 2019, a judge dismissed the disorderly conduct charges against the young men who sat in, which had never come to trial.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So one of the really interesting things about this sit in is that it used the same strategy that the NAACP and other civil rights organizations were using really extensively later on. It's not like nobody had ever thought to do this, but he was sort of doing something that would become a really huge part of the movement later, and that was pairing direct action with legal action. The Alexandria sit in predated the parts that we really think of as the most active parts of the civil rights movement. But this strategy was really similar to a lot of what was going on later on.

[Holly Fry]

Next up, we have a relatively early moment in the movement for LGBTQ rights in the US back when it was more commonly known as the homophile movement. The Mattachine Society was one of the earliest gay rights organizations in the United States. One documented as being older is Chicago's Society for Human Rights, which was founded in 1924. We covered that on the show in 2015.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The Mattachine Society was first founded in Los Angeles in 1951, and then other chapters formed in other cities around the US after that. And in 1966, members of New York City's Mattachine Society challenged regulations that prohibited gay men from being served alcohol. York's bars.

[Holly Fry]

Those regulations came from the New York State liquor authority in the form of a requirement that bar patrons had to display, quote, orderly conduct. In the liquor authority's view, homosexuality was inherently disorderly. Although the policy didn't specifically mention sexual orientation, Police frequently raided bars that were believed to have a gay clientele. And bars posted signs saying that men had to be facing the bar while drinking. This was part of an overall climate of homophobia, stigmatization, and harassment, and it was not unique to New York. Other states had similar policies, some of which specifically referenced homosexuality.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

On April 21, 1966, three Mattachine Society members went to bars in New York City with the hope of being denied service so that then they could file suit and try to get that policy overturned. They included Dick Leisch, who was the head of the New York chapter of the Mattachine Society, as well as Craig Rodwell and John Tim. A fourth man, Randy Wicker, also joined them as they went on. They had informed reporters of what they were doing ahead of time, and they called it a sip in.

[Holly Fry]

This turned out to be a little easier said than done, though. The men's first choice had been a bar that had a sign posted in the window that said, if you're gay, go away. But as soon as the staff there realized that there were reporters on the premises, they closed down for the day. At their next stop, the men told the bartender that they were homosexual, but that they would not be disorderly, and they asked to be served. And in that case, the bartender served them, which is what happened at their next stop as well.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

There are interviews, I think it was with Dick Leish where he was talking about at this point. They were like, we have. We've got to get turned down at the next bar, or we're going to have to table this for later, because we're going to be, like, too inebriated to make the argument that we're not disorderly. So they finally wound up at a bar called Julius's in Greenwich Village, which they thought would be hypersensitive to their presence there because it had recently been raided by police. The same as before. They sat down at the bar. They told the bartender that they were gay, but they were going to remain orderly, and they said that they wanted to be served.

[Holly Fry]

The bartender had already put glasses in front of them and covered them with his hand, saying, I can't serve you. Then this led to a dramatic photo Captured by Fred McDerrah of the Village Voice, with the three men in coats and ties facing the bartender and the bartender covering their glasses with the help of the aclu.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The men filed legal action against the state liquor board and the bar. New York City's Commission on Human Rights got involved with it as well. So under the threat of a lawsuit, the liquor board changed the policy. Then in 1967, which was just a few years later, a New York Court of Appeals issued a ruling in the case Kerma Restaurant Corporation versus State Liquor Authority. And that court ruling specifically said that homosexuality was not inherently disorderly.

[Holly Fry]

That ruling did not end discrimination at New York's bars, though. The Stonewall riots started after a police raid on June 28, 1969.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That was another two more years after that appeals court ruling had happened. We are going to take a quick sponsor break before we go on to some more actions.

[Katherine Legge]

The More Better the merrier Title of your podcast all your old Brooklyn Nine Nine friends are appearing on your favorite podcast, More Better. Don't miss Brooklyn Nine Nine stars and show hosts Stephanie Beatriz and Melissa Fumero as they welcome their friends and former castmates back to laugh about old times and swap some stories. This week, it's Gina Linetti herself, the talented Chelsea Peretti.

[Holly Fry]

Remember when we were in that scene where you guys were just supposed to hug and I was standing there? Yeah. And I was like, can I also hug them?

[Katherine Legge]

Then next week, the Nine Nine nonsense continues as the More Better amigas sit down with Joe Latrulio, AKA Detective Charles Boyle. There'll be more laughs, more conversation, more stories from the set, and more More Better. Don't miss a minute.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You felt safe enough to throw out a bad idea, right? I mean, that is the key because you're definitely not throwing out good ideas all the time.

[Arturo Castro]

I mean, that's just not how it works.

[Katherine Legge]

Listen to More Better with Stephanie and Melissa on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarki]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarki]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Arturo Castro]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse and so many commercials about back pain. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buckwild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon Levitt and Zoe Chao. Titanic, Charles Manson, Alcatraz, Assata Shakur, the.

[Holly Fry]

Sketchy guy named Steve.

[Arturo Castro]

It's giving funny true crime.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jay Shetty. My latest episode is with financial expert Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

If you are doing a lot of side hustles, it's very, very difficult to be great at your main hustle. The only way you're going to build real wealth and economic security is to go all in on one thing. That is greatness. Focus. None of this matters. None of it means a thing if you can have deep and meaningful relationships.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Scott is a professor of Marketing at.

[Scott Galloway]

NYU Stern School of Business.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

He's a bestselling author.

[Katherine Legge]

He has earned a massive following through his lectures, podcasts and YouTube channel.

[Arturo Castro]

Scott Galloway how do we rewire our relationship with money? Because most of us have a stressful relationship with money.

[Scott Galloway]

If you want to be good at money, put down the facade and start talking to people about their investments, how much money they make, what they do with their money, how they save money. What I tell young people is you can have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The Mattachine Society sip in that we talked about a moment ago was inspired by the 1960s civil rights sit ins that we just covered on the podcast. And that was also true of our next act of protest, which is the fish ins that took place in the Pacific northwest in the 1960s, 50s and 60s and beyond. But the context for that protest stretches all the way back to the 19th century.

[Holly Fry]

Isaac Ingalls Stevens became governor of what was then Washington Territory in 1853. One of his objectives as governor was to secure as much land as possible from the indigenous tribes and nations who were living in the Pacific Northwest. As we discussed in our recent two parter on the occupation of Alcatraz, he did this through treaties, and these treaties detailed the terms under which the native nations ceded land to the United States. These treaties ultimately assigned more than 90% of the total land to the United States, with the rest being established as reservation land.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

At least 13 tribes and nations were signatories to these treaties, including the Nisqually, the Puyallup, and the Muckleshoot, although the exact number is a little complicated because Stevens treated individual villages as separate tribes when he was negotiating these treaties under the idea that a smaller group would have less negotiating power.

[Holly Fry]

These treaties covered a lot of points in the relationship between the indigenous nations and the United States. But one important point was fishing rights. While there were multiple treaties at work, they all had similar language. Here the quote right of taking fish at all usual and accustomed grounds and stations is further secured to said Indians in common with all citizens of the territory.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So the Native nations, I mean, this has been the case with all of the Native American history that we've talked about on the show. Like they a lot of these treaties were heavily skewed in favor of the United States versus the indigenous tribe or nation. In this case, though, all of the nations involved refused to sign the treaties without that point about fishing rights, because not only was fishing a major source of food, but the fish and the act of fishing also held religious and spiritual significance. And from Stephen's point of view, he was totally willing to make that concession for very pragmatic reasons. Because if the indigenous people did not retain their fishing rights, then the government was going to be obligated to provide them with some other kind of food source.

[Holly Fry]

At first, the indigenous nations were able to exercise their rights to fish in the waterways around the Pacific Northwest using their traditional methods, which included using gill nets, which are like underwater walls made of netting. There just weren't that many non indigenous people in the Pacific Northwest yet. And at first, those who were there were more interested in other industries like lumber.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

But as the non indigenous population started to grow, indigenous people started having more trouble exercising those rights. And that also was true as federal policy toward indigenous people went through all of those shifts that we Talked about in the occupation of Alcatraz episodes. The state of Washington started to interpret that treaty language as meaning that the indigenous people had fishing rights only on their reservations. And that was in defiance of some federal court rulings which weren't always totally clear and decisive, but they generally upheld the native people's rights to fish in other waterways as well.

[Holly Fry]

These restrictions made it increasingly difficult for indigenous people in the pacific northwest to fish. The best runs for salmon and steelhead trout were outside of the reservation's boundaries. On top of that, during the period of allotment, the reservations themselves got smaller then when the federal government implemented its termination policies, which were supposed to get rid of the reservations and make native people, quote, subject to the same laws and entitled to the same privileges and responsibilities as are applicable to other citizens of the United states. The state of Washington and, to a lesser extent, Oregon, became increasingly focused on enforcing fishing and conservation laws, Specifically when violated by native people, even though those treaties were still in place.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, it's like the state laws were contrary to the treaty language, but the treaties had not been abolished in any way. They were still, in effect, running alongside all of this was a perception among predominantly white sport fishers that the indigenous people were what was to blame for declining populations of salmon and steelhead trout. And this was in defiance of actual data. Between 1958 and 1967, Indigenous people caught six and a half percent of the catch in the pacific northwest. White sport fishers caught 12.2%, and then commercial fishing operations took all the rest. More than 80% of the catch was through commercial fishing operations, not through indigenous people or sport fishers doing their own thing.

[Holly Fry]

I can tell you firsthand that that belief persisted into the 70s. When I lived there as a kid.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That does not surprise me at all.

[Holly Fry]

I remember hearing neighbors, adult neighbors, discuss how they wanted to go fishing, but then said very disparaging things about the native population and how they had ruined it for everyone.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, we talked in our behind the scenes after the Greensboro lunch counter sit ins episode about how we'll be doing research on something, and the whole topic is angering, but then there will be one element that just is particularly viscerally angering. And the things that were said about, like, the indigenous people are trying to get something for nothing. Like, I got so angry over and over in this part of it.

[Holly Fry]

And eventually the only safe place for an indigenous person to fish in the Pacific northwest was on a reservation. Outside a reservation, Indigenous fishers were being harassed, arrested and jailed and having their equipment confiscated by police. Including their boats. Plus, outside of the reservations, nets and traps, which were part of traditional indigenous fishing practices, were outlawed.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So this was still a few years away from the occupation of Alcatraz and the rise of an inter tribal movement for indigenous rights that we just discussed back in November. In the pacific Northwest in the 1950s and early 60s, most tribal leaders were taking a more conciliatory approach to things. The national congress of american indians was extending explicitly, not in favor of the direct action methods that the civil rights movement was using, finding them really to be too aggressive and contradictory to indigenous culture. So, like, there was a banner hanging from their headquarters at one point that said something along the lines of, like, indigenous people don't demonstrate. Like, they were not in favor of sit ins or marches or any of those kinds of things at this point, as a trend among leadership.

[Holly Fry]

But not everyone agreed. And in 1964, the survival of the American Indian Association SAIA, was established with a focus on direct action and civil disobedience. One of the organization's demonstrations was a series of fish ins around the pacific northwest. They were not the first people to do this. For example, Robert satyakum was arrested while fishing in 1954, and he hoped that his arrest would lead to a court ruling that would clarify the indigenous nation's treaty rights. Unfortunately, his criminal record went well beyond this act of civil disobedience. That whole story is outside the scope of this episode.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So these fish ins arranged by the SAIA started on February 27th of 1964, and they continued well into the 1970s, sometimes as individual fishing events and sometimes as prolonged demonstrations at established encampments. With fishing going on throughout that whole time. The demonstrators had legal and strategic advice from Jack Tanner, who was the director of the tacoma, Washington chapter of the naacp. They also had the attention of celebrity supporters, including Marlon Brando, who was arrested at a fish in on March 2nd of 1964, but wasn't ultimately charged with a crime.

[Holly Fry]

These fish ins attracted a lot of criticism, at least at first. Many indigenous leaders disagreed with the strategy entirely, preferring to focus on compromise. Jack Tanner's colleagues in the civil rights movement criticized his involvement, saying it was taking his focus away from black Americans. The Washington state sportsman's club, which was a lobbying organization that had a lot of influence over the state game department, described native people as trying to flaunt the rules and get special privileges. On December 6, 1964, they issued a statement encouraging the state to get rid of all fishing regulations, quote, to allow such waters to become barren until such Time as the Congress of the United States or the courts of our land sets up enforceable regulations that will allow the state to carry on a reasonable fisheries management program. This was kind of a burn it all down mentality. Overall, the white media portrayed the indigenous protesters as backward and lawless.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So nonviolence was a core part of the strategy for the civil rights movement in the United States for a lot of the time. But that wasn't really entirely the case. In the fish in movement, the demonstrators were repeatedly targeted by game wardens and by police, including being beaten with clubs and sprayed with tear gas. On December 7, police making an arrest, rammed demonstrators canoe with their boat which jumped the demonstrators into the water. It is not entirely clear whether that was an accident or intentional. At some encampments, Native people carried firearms to defend themselves. And at others they fought back with things like stones and paddles. After a brawl on October 13th of 1964, the ACLU agreed to defend some of the demonstrators. At first the ACLU really focused on people who had been charged with interfering with police. And then they later expanded it to include defending people who were arrested for fishing.

[Holly Fry]

As was the case with the occupation of Alcatraz. This turned into an inter tribal movement with supporters from other native nations traveling to the Pacific Northwest from other parts of North America to support the demonstrators. The movement also gradually gained more support among non indigenous people, including members of the American Friends Services Committee and the Black Panther Party. In September of 1968, a massive protest was planned that pulled together all these populations. It was supposed to involve five days of fishing, but it went on for more than 40.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This movement continued into the 1970s. On June 17th of 1970, the Washington State Sportsman's Club, which was still insisting that indigenous people were trying to get undeserved special privileges at the expense of white sport fishers, filed a lawsuit. But the judge did not find in their favor. The judge found in favor of the indigenous nations granting a 15 day window in which net fishing would be allowed in the Puyallup River. By that point, more tribal leadership had started to support these protests.

[Holly Fry]

On February 28, 1971, the SAIA asked the US Attorney General to file suit against the State of Washington for violating the treaties that the Native nations had signed all the way back in the 19th century. Judge George Bolt issued his decision on February 12, 1974. This came to be known as the Bolt decision. And it was one of a series of court cases that were all part of this. It ruled that the native tribes that were party to those Treaties were entitled to 50% of the available catch, including fishing outside their reservations.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That was way better than the six and a half percent that they'd actually been fishing. According to that earlier data. This was regarded as a huge win for the indigenous people, but of course, it did not fix everything. Non indigenous fishers were outraged and tried to stage their own fish ins as like a counter demonstration. The ruling also didn't apply to landless indigenous nations or ones that had not been party to those earlier treaties, and that included the Duwamish, Chinook and Snohomish peoples. Native nations in the Pacific Northwest are also still reliant on fishing for food, and the populations of those fish has continued to decline through the effects of commercial fishing, habitat loss, increasing ocean temperatures, all kinds of other Factors.

[Holly Fry]

Back in 2017, we did an episode on Ed Roberts and the independent living movement, which evolved in Berkeley, California in the 1960s and 70s. Before this point, a lot of disability advocacy had really been focused on parents and caregivers of disabled people, rather than on disabled people's own self advocacy. The independent living movement really shifted that focus more towards self determination and self advocacy.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So this kind of language about independence has been evolving in more recent years to include the idea of interdependence, because really all of us depend on other people in some ways. And when it comes to disability, a lot of times that interdependence is really stigmatized. Obviously, that's a brief sum up, not the entirety of the philosophy at this point. But in terms of the 1960s and 70s, this move toward independence and away from pity and paternalism was just huge.

[Holly Fry]

One of the moments that came up in that episode is the passage of Section 504 of the Rehabilitation act in 1973 and the SIT in that followed it. But we didn't really spend much time on that at all. So section 504 was the first federal law regarding civil rights for people with disabilities. It read, quote, no otherwise qualified handicapped individual in the United States shall, solely on the basis of his handicap, be excluded from the participation, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So that sounds pretty great, but this law was just the starting point. Like, how do you define, to use the language of the law, what handicapped means? What did or didn't classify as discrimination? Federal agencies needed to create their own regulations regarding how Section 504 would actually be implemented and enforced. And this applied to every federal agency but the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, or hew. I don't know if maybe people say that Hugh, that was selected as the lead agency. They were to set their regulations first, and then the other agencies would follow.

[Holly Fry]

But between 1973 and 1977, nothing happened. Attorneys from the Office for Civil Rights drafted regulations and sent them to hew. But rather than publishing them for public comment, the Department sent them to Congress, and then Congress sent them back. It went on for so long that in the meantime, President Richard Nixon, who had signed it into law, was impeached. And then his successor, Gerald Ford, had been replaced by Jimmy Carter.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

By that point, disability rights activists were demanding for the regulations that the Office for Civil Rights had drafted be put into place. Instead, the Carter administration set up a task force to study and revise them. And that task force did not include any disabled members.

[Holly Fry]

It became clear that this study and revision process was going to weaken the proposed regulations that the Office for Civil Rights had recommended back in 1973. So the American Coalition of Citizens with Disabilities decided to take action. They gave the HEW an ultimatum. Either HEW Secretary Joseph Califano would sign the regulations as written by April 4, 1977, or activists would start sitting in at HEW offices on April 5.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

April 4 came and went, and on April 5, demonstrators took over the federal buildings that housed eight different regional offices. Most of these sit ins lasted for a day or two, but in San Francisco, more than 100 people sat in for 26 days.

[Holly Fry]

Unlike some of the other sit ins that we've talked about, they didn't show up during business hours and leave. When HEW closed for the day, activists took over the building and stayed, which was really possible thanks to the involvement of lots of other organizations, including civil rights and gay rights groups, church organizations and politicians who were on the demonstrator side. In San Francisco, Glide Memorial Church and the Black Panther Party provided meals.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Over the course of the sit in in San Francisco, conditions in the building became increasingly difficult. Supporters had donated things like mattresses and a shower attachment that could be used with a sink faucet. But people had to sleep in shifts because there were not enough sleeping spaces. The building's restrooms overall were not accessible. Nobody had any privacy. And in some cases, it wasn't just uncomfortable, it was potentially life threatening. For example, people who used catheters or ventilators didn't necessarily have caregivers or other people on hand who knew how to operate and care for these devices.

[Holly Fry]

Eventually, a delegation from the San Francisco sit in was selected to travel to Washington, D.C. to meet with legislators. People donated funds for Plane tickets for people who could travel by air. The International association of Machinists rented a moving truck with a lift and used it to transport people who used wheelchairs. Once in Washington, they met with senators to go over the original regulations point by point, answering senators objections one by one.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I cannot imagine how uncomfortable this trip was, especially for the people who were literally in a moving van. Yeah, like, my mom uses a wheelchair that she can't really transfer out of to get into a vehicle. So, like, there's a special vehicle with a ramp and tie downs for her chair, like, and that is not a comfortable trip a lot of the time. This was literally a moving van with no windows, driving people across the country.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Secretary Califano finally signed these regulations on April 28th of 1977. They included General provisions along with regulations on employment practices, program accessibility, primary and secondary education, post secondary education, health, welfare and social services, and government procedures.

[Holly Fry]

Overall, this was a major success for the disability rights movement, but at the same time, enforcement was a huge issue. Opponents argued that the work and expense involved made the regulations impractical or impossible to implement. The regulations also served as a template for the Americans with Disabilities act, which became law in 1990. But actually implementing that has been a struggle as well, even now, decades later.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, I remember there being headlines. I feel like it was late last year about, maybe we don't need to implement this because it's just too expensive. And people were like, you have had 30 years. I have feelings about.

[Holly Fry]

I do too.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We should also note that, as is the case with any group, disabled people are not a monolith. And accessibility looks really different for different disabilities. Different parts of the community have different perspectives depending on all kinds of issues. During the 504 sit in, for example, some members of the deaf community felt like they were excluded. And the deaf community also thought that some of the regulations, like a requirement for educating disabled children in classrooms with their non disabled peers whenever possible, could threaten Deaf culture.

[Holly Fry]

That said, though, beyond the regulations, activists who were part of these sit ins have also talked about their role in shifting non disabled people's perceptions of disability. In the words of Judith Heumann, who was part of the sit in and is an international disability rights advocate today, Quote, through the sit in, we turned ourselves from being oppressed individuals into being empowered people. We demonstrated to the entire nation that disabled people could take control over our own lives and take leadership in the struggle for equality. She went on to say, quote, we overcame years of parochialism.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

If you're curious, there was an episode of drunk history on this that cast disabled people in the roles of all the 504 protesters, which shouldn't sound like some kind of accomplishment, but it is.

[Holly Fry]

Sadly, yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Sadly, yes.

[Holly Fry]

There was a lot in this middle act of the show. So we are gonna take a quick sponsor break.

[Katherine Legge]

The More Better the Merrier title of your podcast all your old Brooklyn Nine Nine friends are appearing on your favorite podcast, More Better. Don't miss Brooklyn Nine Nine stars and show hosts Stephanie Beatrice and Melissa Fumero as they welcome their friends and former castmates back to laugh about old times and swap some stories. This week, it's Gina Linetti herself, the talented Chelsea Peretti.

[Holly Fry]

Remember when we were in that scene where you guys were just supposed to hug and I was standing there? Yeah.

[Katherine Legge]

I was like, can I also hug them then? Next week, the 99 nonsense continues as the More Better Amigas sit down with Joe Latrulio, AKA Detective Charles Foil. There'll be more laughs, more conversation, more stories from the set, and More More Better. Don't miss a minute.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You felt safe enough to throw out a bad idea, right? I mean, that is the key because you're definitely not throwing out good ideas all the time.

[Arturo Castro]

I mean, that's just not how it works.

[Katherine Legge]

Listen to More Better with Stephanie and Melissa on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarki]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarki]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Arturo Castro]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse and so many commercials about back pain. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buck wild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon Levitt and Zoe Chao. Titanic, Charles Manson, Alcatraz, Assata Shakur, the.

[Holly Fry]

Sketchy guy named Steve.

[Arturo Castro]

It's giving funny true crime.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I love storytelling and I love you. So I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jay Shetty. My latest episode is with financial expert Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

If you are doing a lot of side hustles, it's very, very difficult to be great at your main hustle. The only way you're going to build real wealth and economic security is to go all in on one thing, that is greatness, focus. None of this matters. None of it means a thing if you can have deep and meaningful relationships.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Scott is a professor of Marketing at.

[Scott Galloway]

NYU Stern School of Business.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

He's a bestselling author.

[Katherine Legge]

He has earned a massive following through his lectures, podcasts and YouTube channel.

[Arturo Castro]

Scott Galloway how do we rewire our relationship with money? Because most of us have a stressful relationship with money.

[Scott Galloway]

You want to be good at money. Put down the facade and start talking to people about their investments, how much money they make, what they do with their money, how they save money. What I tell young people is you can have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

To return to our six Impossible episodes, the idea of respectability has come up in a lot of our episodes on the civil rights movement in the United States. It came up in in our recent episode on the Greensboro Sit ins and the other sit ins. It's come up in today's shows so far, even when we haven't called it out specifically. A lot of these demonstrations that we have talked about have involved people who took a lot of care to always be very polite and very well dressed. And this has been a strategy in a lot of social movements. But it's definitely not the only strategy, which is really illustrated by what we're about to talk about.

[Holly Fry]

The first official reporting of what came to be known as Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome came in the morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, which is a publication of the US Centers for Disease Control. It described an unusual outbreak of Pneumocystis pneumonia in five previously healthy gay men in Los Angeles. And that was on June 5, 1981.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

In just five years following that, more than 28,000 cases of AIDS were reported in the United States and more than 24,500 people had died. By the end of 1986, there was no approved treatment for HIV, which is the virus that causes AIDS, in the United States. The US Federal government had been incredibly slow to respond. And at that point, President Ronald Reagan had not made any public statements on the crisis at all. A really lengthy drug approval process also meant that people with HIV were dying while they waited for access to drugs that were already extending people's lives in other countries.

[Holly Fry]

People who were affected by this, who had either contracted HIV or who knew and loved people who did, were outraged. This was particularly true among gay men who were disproportionately affected. In response to all of this, Larry Kramer and other activists formed the AIDS Coalition to Unleash power, or act up on March 12, 1987 in New York City. Its purpose was to use direct action to force the government, drug companies, public health agencies, insurance companies, everyone involved in the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of HIV and AIDS to get moving immediately.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So ACT UP still exists today and is still directly involved in AIDS advocacy because this is not over. Throughout its existence, the organization has become known for demonstrations that are angry and aggressive and militant and just viscerally affecting. As one example, ACT UP has organized marches to Washington D.C. in which people have scattered the ashes of loved ones who died from AIDS related diseases on the White House lawn. Some who have participated in these marches have said that if that is not enough to prompt the government to act that they would start using bodies.

[Holly Fry]

One of ACT up's tactics has been the die in in which demonstrators lie down unmoving, usually in a public space, sometimes in roadways blocking traffic. This was part of Act Up's very first protest on March 24, 1987, when 17 people lay down in the intersection of Broadway and Wall street in New York City outside Trinity Church.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

At this demonstration, the protesters had a very clear set of demands that they had written up ahead of time. They wanted the FDA to immediately release potentially life saving, to eliminate double blind studies in which HIV positive patients were given placebos and to make these drugs affordable, they also demanded a massive public education campaign, protections against discrimination for people who are being treated for AIDS and quote, immediate establishment of A coordinated, comprehensive and compassionate national policy on aids.

[Holly Fry]

Okay. When it comes to those drug standards in general, people think of controlled studies and double blind trials as helpful in making sure that the drugs that make it to market are safe and effective. We talked about some of that in our two part episode on thalidomide. But in the early 1980s, the FDA approval process took up to nine years. That was much longer than people lived after being diagnosed with hiv, especially before the test for the disease was approved in 1985, since there had been very little public education on the disease, Most people were diagnosed after contracting an opportunistic infection, at which point they just did not have long to live.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, people like, people couldn't wait that long. And then also the idea that somebody could be in a study, like somebody who was HIV positive could be in a study where they would be given a placebo, like they didn't have time to wait until that study was over to find out whether they could get the actual drug or not.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So on September 14, 1989, act up held a rally and die in outside of the New York Stock Exchange to protest pharmaceutical company Burrows welcome, which manufactured azt, which by that point was the only drug in the United States that was approved to treat hiv. Demonstrators had also made their way into the building and dropped a banner from a balcony that said Sell welcome. So one of the things they were protesting was how expensive Burrows welcome had made azt. So not long after the demonstration, they lowered the price for a year of AZT treatment, which had originally been $10,000 per patient per year, to $6,400. Act Up's very aggressive advocacy on this has often been credited with prompting the change. Although Burroughs welcome has maintained that they had already been planning to do it.

[Holly Fry]

Because of their tactics and the stigma surrounding both homosexuality and aids. ACT up's actions have been inherently controversial. One particular die in was particularly divisive. In December of 1989, Act up and Women's Health Action Mobilization demonstrated inside St. Patrick's Cathedral during High Mass. They were both there to protest John Cardinal O'Connor, Archbishop of New York, who was influential in city politics and who opposed things like sex education, abortion access, AIDS education and condom distribution.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, a lot of that also applied to the Catholic Church in general. So this demonstration included a die in in the cathedral's aisles. More than 40 people were arrested, with some of the demonstrators being carried out of the cathedral on stretchers. ACT UP had initially intended this demonstration to be somewhat quiet, to sort of go into the church. Have Their dying in the aisles without otherwise causing a lot of disruption. But as it developed, Michael Petrellis loudly blew a whistle and shouted, you're killing us. And that tipped the protest into something that became a lot more chaotic.

[Holly Fry]

People were offended not only at the disruption of the church services, but also because one of the demonstrators, Thomas Keane, threw a host wafer from the communion service on the floor. He later said that he did not realize how offensive that would be to Catholics who believed that the communion host was the body of Christ. Even within ACT up, some people began to argue that the tone of these demonstrations was turning off potential supporters.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So overall, these demonstrations have been credited with, like, getting more effective AIDS policy happening more quickly. And as we said earlier, ACT UP is still using die ins as a protest tool. Like today, on October 4th of 2013, there was a die in at the New York Public Library after they put up an exhibit titled why we fight Remembering AIDS activism. One of ACT up's slogans at that event was, aids is not history, because this idea that we were remembering activism sort of suggests that we are done with it now and we're not. Another took place on January 1st of 2014 after the inauguration of New York City mayor Bill de Blasio, because at that point, ACT UP had been trying to meet with him about his AIDS platform for months without success. ACT UP repeated the AIDS is not history theme at the Whitney Museum in 2018, after the museum arranged a retrospective of the work of David Bojnarovich, who was an Act up member before his death in 1992. Act up again felt that the Whitney's presentation made it seem as though the AIDS epidemic was in the past rather than being a critical current issue.

[Holly Fry]

Okay, so the last one, the teach in movement during the Vietnam War, this one is a little bit different. It wasn't exactly a direct action meant to force the US Government to end its military involvement in Vietnam. Instead, it was an educational tool that inspired people to take on direct actions of their own.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So for Context, during the 1964 presidential election, part of Lyndon Baines Johnson's campaign was a peace platform. So people thought he was gonna end American involvement in Vietnam. But on February 13th of 1965, which was less than a month after being inaugurated, Johnson authorized a bombing campaign that was known as operation Rolling Thunder, as well as combat troop deployments to Vietnam. There had been American personnel in Vietnam before that, but not in a combat capacity. People who had voted for him, thinking that he was going to end American involvement in the war, felt really betrayed.

[Holly Fry]

That Spring, the faculty Committee to Stop the War in Vietnam at the University of Michigan was discussing ways to demonstrate against the war and against what they saw as the militarization of their academic disciplines. As one example, social scientists had been recruited to work on a military funded counterinsurgency program called Project Camelot, which was meant to study cultures primarily in Latin America. And of course, people in hard science fields had seen the development of weapons like the atomic bomb. Academics had also seen their work branded as a communist threat during the Cold War with accusations that they were indoctrinating students against the United States. There was a lot going on with the education community.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. And at first these particular professors and other educators were focused on a walkout in which classes would be canceled and faculty would instead give anti war lectures somewhere off campus. But people raised some concerns about whether that was in the best interests of students and whether people would perceive it as the professors not being committed to their work. In a staff meeting on March 17, after a lot of debate about this whole walkout and strike idea, anthropologist Marshall Salons said, I've got it. They say we're neglecting our responsibilities as teachers. Let's show them how responsible we feel. Instead of teaching out, we will teach in all night.

[Holly Fry]

This led to the first teach in held from 8pm on March 24, 1965 until 8am the following morning. It was held in Angell Hall Auditorium, although the crowd was so large that it spilled out to other parts of the campus, including the library steps. More than 2,000 people attended, with about 500 still there when the last lecture started. Women enrolled at the university had a curfew at the time, but it was waived so that they could attend. In addition to the faculty involvement, Students for a Democratic Society were also part of the event.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This event included lectures and discussions that were meant to educate attendees on things like the military industrial complex and Cold War rhetoric and US foreign policy, the effects of weapons like napalm and phosphorus bombs. There were at least two different bomb threats during the event, with police clearing the building after one of them and counter demonstrators were inside and outside the building shouting pro war slogans like better dead than red.

[Holly Fry]

Two days later, another teach in was held at Columbia University in New York City. More teach ins followed and on April 17, 1965, an Inter University committee for a public hearing on Vietnam was established. Participating schools included the University of Chicago, mit, University of Wisconsin, Wayne State University, and Washington University in St. Louis.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The committee published a pamphlet called the Meaning of the National Teach in. It began, quote, the Teach Ins were born in protest against United States policy in Vietnam. However, they are vehicles for a larger purpose. They are a means of discussion and debate without which democracy lacks significance.

[Holly Fry]

On May 15, that National Teach in was held in Washington D.C. this was an all day event that was also broadcast on more than 200 radio stations. It included discussions about US policies and context of the war, along with debates between supporters and opponents of U.S. policy toward Vietnam. National Security Advisor McGeorge Bundy was supposed to be at the National Teach in, but he canceled at the last minute for a trip to the Dominican Republic that was described as urgent.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, of course, there were people who wondered if that was a convenient excuse or an actual urgency. On May 21st and 22nd, the largest teach in in this movement was held at the University of California at Berkeley with 30,000 people in attendance.

[Holly Fry]

The committee had followed up with McGeorge Bundy repeatedly after his cancellation at the National Teach In. The committee's hope was that they would schedule some kind of opportunity for the debate and discussion that he was supposed to have been a part of. And that did finally happen with a televised event in July.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The Teach in movement didn't really last beyond 1965. Over time, people started to become concerned that it had shifted from being an explicitly anti war movement about educating people to one that was more focused on a debate between two sides. As the anti war movement became more radical, activists started seeing the Teach Ins as too conservative.

[Holly Fry]

At the same time, the Teach in movement is marked as a critical moment in the early anti Vietnam war movement. Carl Oglesby of Students for a Democratic Society called it a stroke of genius. That quote put the debate on the map for the whole academic community. And you could not be an intellectual after those teach inside and not think a lot and express yourself and defend your ideas about Vietnam. According to Marshall Sahlins, it also shifted some of the counterculture movement from one that was ideologically pacifist and pro civil rights to one that was overtly political and more likely to take direct action.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I think this is. I mean, there's so much discussion of the anti war movement during Vietnam which could be really divisive. And I don't know if could be was even a strong enough word. Like it was really divisive and became really militant in a lot of places. And so this to me feels like this kind of nice precursor that was about basically educating people about all of the context, like all the context for what was happening in Vietnam, all the context for what it could mean in like the world of global history, all of that that then, like, went on to inspire people to take direct action. Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send us a note, our email address is history podcastheartradio.com and you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Maria Tremarki]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarki]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Holly Fry]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarki]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Arturo Castro]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week, I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilar actors and writers and comedians. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, and Joseph Gordon Levitt.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Emilia, host of the podcast Crumbs. For years, I had to rely on other people to tell me my story. And what I heard wasn't good.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You?

[Holly Fry]

Really?

[Arturo Castro]

Last night, it felt like I lived most of my life in a blackout. I was trapped in addiction. I had to grab the lamp and smashed it against the walls. And then I decided I wanted to tell my own story. Listen to crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hey, you guys, I'm Katherine Legge. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events. Tune in to my new podcast, Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast, presented by Capital One, founding.

[Katherine Legge]

Partner of iHeart Women's Sports.