SYMHC Classics: Zoë and Theodora

Summary

Episode Summary: SYMHC Classics: Zoë and Theodora

Stuff You Missed in History Class delves into the tumultuous lives of Zoë and Theodora, two influential Byzantine empresses who navigated power, intrigue, and survival in the 11th-century Byzantine Empire. Hosted by Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson, this episode provides an engaging exploration of their reigns, the political landscape of Constantinople, and the enduring legacy of their leadership.

Introduction to Zoë and Theodora

Holly and Tracy commence the episode by highlighting the complexity of researching historical figures from the Byzantine era. They emphasize the scarcity and reliability of sources, noting, “we don't know if that copy is accurate or how many iterations it may have gone through” ([04:48] Holly Fry). This sets the stage for their deep dive into the lives of Zoë and Theodora, co-empresses whose rule was marked by both collaboration and conflict.

Historical Context: The Byzantine Empire and the Macedonian Dynasty

The hosts provide a comprehensive backdrop of the Byzantine Empire, explaining its origins as the Eastern Roman Empire established in the 4th century. They discuss the pivotal role of Basil II, whose reign ushered in the Macedonian Dynasty’s golden age. Tracy elaborates, “The Macedonian dynasty is described as ushering in the Byzantine golden age, marked by a period of literary and artistic flourishing as well as an expansion of the empire's territory” ([09:33] Tracy V. Wilson). Under Basil II, the empire not only expanded territorially but also solidified its cultural and religious influence, including the spread of Christianity to neighboring regions.

Rise of Zoë and Theodora

Zoë and Theodora were born into the ruling Macedonian family, both bearing the honorific Porphyrogenita, indicating their birth into the purple—the designated empresses’ residence. Tracy notes, “Zoë and Theodora were both known by the honorific Porphyrogenita, or born in the Purple, which was used for the daughters of emperors born during their reign” ([15:23] Tracy V. Wilson). Their ascent to power began after the reign of their father, Constantine VIII, who lacked a male heir.

Political Intrigue and Marriages

Zoë’s first marriage to Romanos Argyrus was orchestrated by the aging Emperor Constantine VIII in hopes of securing a stable succession. However, Romanos proved to be an ineffective ruler. Tracy recounts, “Romanos also spent a lot of money trying to build churches and monasteries” ([19:52] Tracy V. Wilson), highlighting his mismanagement and the resultant strain on the empire’s finances.

Zoë’s personal life further complicated the political landscape. Her affair with Michael, a court eunuch, led to tensions that destabilized her marriage to Romanos. Holly summarizes, “Ignoring this relationship did not work out for Romanos, though” ([20:22] Holly Fry), referring to the eventual poisoning and death of Romanos, suspected to be orchestrated by Zoë and Michael.

Reign of Romanos and His Downfall

Romanos’ reign was marred by strategic blunders and unpopular fiscal policies. Tracy explains, “Romanos' relationship with his uncles had become increasingly contentious” ([28:13] Tracy V. Wilson), leading to his eventual exile and blindness. This period of instability underscored the fragile nature of imperial authority and the perilous balance between personal relationships and political power.

Zoë’s Ascendancy and Michael IV’s Rule

Following Romanos’ demise, Zoë leveraged her influence to install Michael IV as emperor. Tracy details, “Zoë’s efforts to establish Michael as Emperor Michael IV did not work out for her” ([20:22] Tracy V. Wilson). Michael IV’s reign saw continued mismanagement, including tax reforms that alienated both the peasantry and the aristocracy, ultimately leading to widespread dissatisfaction and rebellion.

Michael V and Zoë’s Banishment

In a dramatic turn of events, Michael V usurped power, banishing Zoë to a monastery and attempting to discredit her by accusing her of conspiracy. Holly narrates, “As word spread about Zoe's treatment, the people of Constantinople were outraged” ([27:07] Holly Fry), highlighting the public’s enduring loyalty to Zoë and the ensuing chaos within the empire. The populace’s support for Zoë catalyzed her return and the subsequent proclamation of her sister, Theodora, as co-empress.

Co-Reign of Zoë and Theodora

The dual reign of Zoë and Theodora marked a unique period in Byzantine history. Tracy offers a vivid description of their leadership dynamics, stating, “The elder Zoe was the quicker to understand ideas, but slower to give them utterance” ([29:05] Tracy V. Wilson). Despite their popularity, their joint rule sometimes struggled due to societal expectations that questioned the propriety of female-only leadership.

Marriage to Constantine IX and Continued Challenges

To bolster their authority, Zoë married Constantine Monomachos, an experienced administrator with his own contentious personal life. Tracy explains, “Constantine had a lover named Sflerina, and that by itself would not have raised too many eyebrows” ([32:56] Tracy V. Wilson), but Constantine’s lavish spending and political missteps further destabilized the empire. His inability to effectively govern led to military defeats and uprisings, exacerbating the already fragile state of Byzantine politics.

Legacy and Depictions

Zoë and Theodora’s reign left a lasting imprint on Byzantine history, both through their political actions and their portrayal in contemporary art. Tracy mentions, “There is a mosaic of Zoe and the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul” ([36:34] Tracy V. Wilson), indicating their enduring presence in cultural artifacts. The hosts also discuss the complexities and ambiguities in historical accounts, such as potential poisoning and the reliability of sources like the Chronographia by Mikael Pselosh.

Conclusion: The Fall of Byzantium and Enduring Impact

The episode concludes by touching on the eventual decline of the Byzantine Empire, which continued for centuries after Zoë and Theodora’s rule. Tracy summarizes, “The Byzantine Empire was finally conquered by the Ottoman Empire in 1453” ([36:34] Tracy V. Wilson), underscoring the long-term ramifications of the political instability that characterized their reign.

Holly and Tracy wrap up by reflecting on the intricate interplay of personal relationships, political ambition, and societal expectations that defined the lives of Zoë and Theodora. Their story serves as a testament to the challenges faced by female rulers in a male-dominated political landscape and the lasting legacy of their leadership in Byzantine history.

Notable Quotes

• Holly Fry [04:48]: “We don't know if that copy is accurate or how many iterations it may have gone through.”
• Tracy V. Wilson [09:33]: “The Macedonian dynasty is described as ushering in the Byzantine golden age, marked by a period of literary and artistic flourishing as well as an expansion of the empire's territory.”
• Tracy V. Wilson [15:23]: “Zoë and Theodora were both known by the honorific Porphyrogenita, or born in the Purple, which was used for the daughters of emperors born during their reign”.
• Tracy V. Wilson [28:13]: “Romanos' relationship with his uncles had become increasingly contentious”.
• Holly Fry [27:07]: “As word spread about Zoe's treatment, the people of Constantinople were outraged”.
• Tracy V. Wilson [29:05]: “The elder Zoe was the quicker to understand ideas, but slower to give them utterance”.

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a nuanced portrayal of Zoë and Theodora, highlighting their resilience and strategic acumen in navigating the perilous waters of Byzantine politics. Through meticulous research and engaging storytelling, Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson illuminate the lesser-known facets of Byzantine history, providing listeners with a rich understanding of these two formidable empresses.

For more insights into forgotten corners of history, tune into Stuff You Missed in History Class available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

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[Jason Alexander]

Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarke]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Happy Saturday. Theodora became the sole Empress of the Byzantine Empire on January 11, 1055. That was 970 years ago today, at least theoretically, depending on calendars, that happened after the death of Emperor Constantine ix. Constantine had been married to Theodora's sister Zoe, and they had previously been co empresses.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Our episode on Zoe and Theodora is today's Saturday classic that originally came out on March 3, 2021, so enjoy.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Try so our show.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Has been skewing a little bit more toward the 19th and 20th centuries lately, including something we just recorded that's coming out after this one. So when I picked today's topic, I wanted to just break a little farther out of that. And I have had Byzantine empresses Zoe and Theodora on my list for ages. They went through a whole series of twists and turns in 11th century Constantinople and over the course of almost 30 years. Sometimes Zoe ruled alongside one of her husbands, sometimes she and Theodora ruled together, and then in the end, Theodora ruled alone. All of that happened against a backdrop of a lot of distrust and intrigue and possibly some murder. A note on the names before we get started. Pretty much all the English language sources on this use Anglicized rather than Greek names. That's what folks will probably find if they go looking for more information in English on this, including in scholarly work. So for the sake of clarity, even though that's a little weird to me, we're gonna stick with that convention rather than trying to translate all the names back into Greek.

[Holly Fry]

Right. And we are also gonna give a little bit of context first, both about the available sources for this episode and the imperial dynasty that Zoe and Theodora were. There are always challenges when it comes to researching historical figures from this long ago. Documentation, obviously, is pretty scarce. We have had so many conversations on the show about the oldest surviving records of a person, or even records about them having been written decades or even centuries after the fact, or the oldest surviving written record being a copy of something that was written much earlier, but we don't have the original for comparison because it hasn't survived. So we don't know if that copy is accurate or how many iterations it may have gone through, or even just editorial flair or interpretation. And in some cultures, we do have a sense of how history was preserved through an oral tradition, but often there are just a lot of unanswered questions about how later accounts reflect something that happened way before.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So Zoe and Theodora come with a slightly different challenge than the one that we are usually talking about with things from this long ago. The most detailed record of their lives and their rule is the chronographia of Mikael Pselosh. Psiloche lived from about 1018 to 1082, and he was a writer, a political advisor, and a government official before eventually becoming a monk. His chronicle documents events that he actually lived through and in some cases, witnessed, although it does start with things that happened when he was a baby and did not have a personal memory of. Selash met Zoe and Theodora multiple times. Theodora frequently invited him to leave his monastery and come visit her in the.

[Holly Fry]

Palace, although it was written shortly after the things it documents. The Chronographia is not really a straightforward presentation of people and events. Its writing style is often very poetic and dramatic. In places, it reads like a novel or a memoir. Sometimes Solosh describes things that happened behind closed doors with no one there to witness and report on them. His personal opinions are often very apparent, and in places, entire paragraphs are about himself instead of his purported subjects. Sometimes he also gives ages and dates that contradict official records of the time.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

He really has some parts that are just like, I'm gonna talk about myself for a minute.

[Holly Fry]

Talk about. Enough about you, how about how I feel about you?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So the Chronographia also follows literary tropes that were common during the Byzantine era. The emperors and empresses are usually described as physically flawlessly beautiful, which was pretty much the standard way to describe royalty. And the depictions of women are often stereotyped. So, for example, here is how he describes Zoe after one of her husbands confined her to the women's quarters in the palace under guard. Quote, anyway, she avoided the despicable feminine trait of talkativeness, and there were no emotional outbursts. So it is not entirely clear whether his criticisms of Zoe and Theodora reflect their actual behavior or if they are more drawn from the sexist stereotypes of the day.

[Holly Fry]

As we noted at the top of the show, Zoe and Theodora were empresses during the 11th century in the Byzantine Empire. The Byzantine Empire, also known as the Eastern Roman Empire, was established in the 4th century after Diocletian divided the Roman Empire into eastern and western portions, each with its own rulers.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Constantine I became the emperor of the eastern portion and established Constantinople as its capital. Today it is Istanbul, Turkey, and it was built on the site of the ancient city of Byzantium. The term Byzantine Empire comes from this ancient city, Although that term was not coined until around the 16th century. People living in this empire did not typically describe it as Byzantine. They only even used the word Byzantium pretty rarely. They generally referred to themselves as Romans, while people in the Western Roman Empire were more likely to refer to them as Greek and to call the empire the Empire of Constantinople or New Rome. So, within the field of Byzantine history, there is starting to be some discussion about whether to move away from this terminology and into something that is more accurate.

[Holly Fry]

Still in motion.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Still in motion. Like, pretty new conversation from. I mean, I'm not. I'm not a Byzantine historian, but as I understand it, this is a pretty new conversation just about the whole field and how to approach it. And how to kind of unload some of the Westernized baggage, which, like the naming convention of of Anglicized names is also part of.

[Holly Fry]

So this empire had started to decline by the 9th century when Emperor Basil the First came to power. This started a new imperial dynasty known as the Macedonian dynasty. Because Basil had been born to a peasant family in Macedonia. The Byzantine Empire, at least in theory, was an elective monarchy. But Basil took steps to establish a dynastic line that would be passed down through his descendants for generations. Although this line of succession was interrupted by various usurpations and rifts, the Macedonian dynasty ruled the empire for almost 200 years.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The Macedonian dynasty is described as ushering in the Byzantine golden age, marked by a period of literary and artistic flourishing as well as an expansion of the empire's territory. And this expansion wasn't just about extending the empire's political influence. It was also about spreading Christianity. The Bulgarians, Serbs and Rus all converted to Christianity during this phase of the Byzantine Empire.

[Holly Fry]

Zoe and Theodora came to power five generations after Basil I. At the end of this imperial dynasty. They were the daughters of Constantine VIII and his w Helena, and nieces of Constantine's brother, Basil II.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Basil and Constantine were sons of the Emperor Romanus II. They were named co emperors in the year 960. They were both still children then, depending on which account you are looking at. Basil was either three or five and his younger brother Constantine was either a baby or a toddler. Their father was still living when they were named as his successors. But then when Romanus died in 963, it kicked off a period of instinc stability.

[Holly Fry]

At first, Basil and Constantine's mother, Theophano, acted as their regent. But then she married a general named Nicephorus Phocas. This was one of many apparently unhappy marriages in this story. He was an accomplished general but deeply unpopular as a ruler. He was ultimately assassinated in969 and Theophano was implicated in his death along with another general, John Tsimiskes. John Tzimiskes took the throne and banished Theophano to a monastery. He then reigned until his death in 976.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Although Basil II and Constantine VIII technically came into power as co emperors, at that point Basil was seen as the far better choice to lead. He was described as thoughtful and intelligent, while his brother was more interested in maintaining a life of luxury than actually ruling. Also, as we said earlier, Basil was the older of the two, and even so, he was just barely considered to be an adult. So all the parties involved generally agreed that Basil would take the lead and his brother Constantine would be co emperor, pretty much in name only.

[Holly Fry]

As emperor, Basil faced a series of revolts launched by other claimants to the throne, some of whom were close enough to the Macedonian dynastic line that they might have been able to gain some acceptance if they actually succeeded. It wasn't until 989, 13 years after coming to power, that Basil's forces defeated the last of them. This Byzantine victory came with the aid of Vladimir the Great, grand Prince of Kiev.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So accounts vary somewhat in their details on this, but it was all connected to a political and religious agreement in which Vladimir married Basil and Constantine's sister Anna, and as part of the marriage negotiations, also agreed to convert to Christianity. We also have an episode of this in the archive, but if you go check it out, be aware that most of this region was described at the time as Russia, but today it's Ukraine.

[Holly Fry]

During his 50 year reign, Basil implemented land reforms, forcing wealthy families to return land that had been seized from the peasantry. Over the course of decades, he expanded the Byzantine Empire's territory and consolidated its influence in territory that it already held. He was nicknamed Basil the Bulgar Slayer. After his conquest of Bulgaria, Basil also.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hoped to form an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire, which at the time encompassed a lot of central Europe and what's now northern Italy. And that is where we finally get back to Zoe. So we will turn our attention to her after a quick sponsor break.

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[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarke]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarke]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We have only mentioned two of them so far, but Byzantine Emperor Constantine VIII and his wife Helena had three daughters. The oldest, Eudocia, had become a nun. According to Pselash, this was because she had been scarred by an illness. That illness was probably smallpox. The middle daughter, Zoe, was born around 978 and the youngest, Theodora, was born around 981. Zoe and Theodora were both known by the honorific Porphyrogenita, or born in the Purple, which was used for the daughters of emperors born during their reign. Emperor's sons had the corresponding title of porphyrogenitos.

[Holly Fry]

Basil II's plan to create an alliance between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire involved a marriage between his niece Zoe and Holy Roman Emperor Otto III. This arrangement was made in the year 1001, so Zoe would have been about 23. She was described as being exceptionally beautiful, although, as we noted earlier, Byzantine royalty were generally always described this way.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This alliance would have brought together two massive political powers. But when Zoe arrived in Bari in southern Italy to be married, having sailed there from Constantinople, it turned out that Otto had died suddenly of a fever at the age of only 21. Had he survived, though, this probably would have been a tumultuous marriage. Otto actually died. After fleeing a rebellion and losing control of the imperial city, Zoe returned to.

[Holly Fry]

Constantinople and she largely disappeared from the historical record until Basil II's death in 1025. Over the course of his reign, Basil had become more and more sober and reserved. And in his last years he was described as having an almost monk like austerity. He had never married, so his brother Zoe and Theodora's father, Constantine viii, followed him on the throne.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Although Constantine had the three daughters that we already mentioned, he also had no male heir. He became ill in 1028 at the age of 70, and on his deathbed he appointed his relative Romanos Argyrus, who was the eparch of the city of Constantinople, to be his successor. And he also arranged a marriage between Romanos and Zoe.

[Holly Fry]

Although Romanos was a relative, he wasn't within the Macedonian line of succession. So according to Selash, in Romanos mind, this was the start of a new ruling dynasty. He would be its founder and it would carry on through his descendants. If that was the case, though, there was a big flaw in his plan. Zoe was 50, making it sort of unlikely that he was going to be able to father any children with her. Selash describes the couple trying all kinds of fertility treatments and charms in an attempt to conceive an heir.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This really seems to have driven a wedge between Zoe and her husband. Each of them took lovers. Romanus also cut Zoe off from the royal treasury and put her on a strict allowance, which infuriated her. In some accounts, Zoe also became really jealous of her sister, who had at one point been considered as Romanos bride. In other accounts, her advisors were the ones who suggested that her sister might be a threat to her. Either way, Theodora was confined to the women's quarters in the palace and then eventually sent to a monastery. In some accounts, Zoe also cut her sister's hair into a tonsure.

[Holly Fry]

Selash also describes Romanos as an ineffective ruler, overconfident in his knowledge of both letters and military tactics. And this led him to make all kinds of strategic blunders that he tried to pay for by raising taxes. But then he also spent a lot of money trying to build churches and monasteries. Unlike Basil ii, he didn't get in the way of big landowners once again trying to take over land from the peasantry, which pushed the empire toward a more feudal existence. The Byzantine army, commanded by Romanos himself, suffered a humiliating and expensive defeat at the Battle of Azaz in 1030.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Zoe's lover during all of this was Michael, brother of John the Orphano Trophis, who had been a prominent eunuch in the court of Basil ii. Michael was in his twenties and Zoe was in her fifties, and Romano seems to have known about this relationship, but pretty much ignored it, possibly because he thought that trying to put a stop to it would just lead Zoe to take other lovers instead. Michael also had epilepsy, and the chronographia describes Romanos as feeling sorry for him.

[Holly Fry]

Ignoring this relationship did not work out for Romanos, though. Multiple accounts either suggest or flat out state that Zoe and Michael conspired to slowly poison him. Then, in 1034, he either drowned or was drowned in his bath while preparing for the next day's Good Friday observances.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Selash has a riveting account of of his body servants holding him under the water.

[Holly Fry]

Nice. That we don't know actually happened.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Zoe put her influence as Empress to work to marry her lover Michael, and place him on the imperial throne. But just like her late husband's decision to ignore that affair had not really worked out for him, Zoe's efforts to establish Michael as Emperor Michael IV did not work out for her. He seems to have concluded that a woman who would allegedly conspire with her lover to poison her husband might get a new lover and do that again. So he confined Zoe to the women's quarters and dismissed all of her loyal eunuchs and ladies in waiting and then replaced them all with people of his own choosing.

[Holly Fry]

Michael IV was not particularly popular as an emperor. He raised taxes and required that they paid in currency, which was a change and a hardship for people who had access to goods but not money. This led to an uprising in 1040, and that fed into a revolt by the Bulgar people against Byzantine rule in general, with the rebels taking over multiple cities and laying siege to Thessalonica.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

During all of this, Michael had recurring and sometimes serious illnesses. It's not clear whether this was a complication of his epilepsy or something else. His brother John, the orphanotrophos, convinced him to name their sister's son, who was also named Michael, just to confuse things as Caesar or co Emperor, to help take some of the pressure off of him.

[Holly Fry]

So two Michaels at this point, ruling at least in name?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yes. One of the things that was a little frustrating about this episode is how many of the same names were used by different people, not just spread apart, but like within a couple of generations. So, like, there's a lot of having to cross check. Was this the same Theophano?

[Holly Fry]

Yes. Different Michael? No, no, no. But there were some barriers to the younger Michael getting any kind of support in this plan. Although his mother was the sister of both the Emperor Michael IV and John the Orphanatrophos, he was of common birth. His father was a caulker. To try to give the younger Michael a clearer connection to the imperial throne, John suggested that Zoe adopt him as her son. This would bolster his legitimacy as Caesar, both because of his adopted mother being the empress and because at this point, she was pretty popular. She was an emperor's daughter, born in the purple and the niece of another emperor. And she was also generous with the royal treasury, at least when the emperor let her have access to it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The elder Michael became seriously ill in 1041, and between that illness and his military failures, he rapidly lost support. He tried to hang on to the throne for as long as he could, including planning military expeditions to Bulgaria. That was something that his physicians and advisors suspected that he just would not survive. Ultimately, he was either forced off the throne or chose to retire to a monastery. John the Orphano Trophos was imprisoned and then later blinded.

[Holly Fry]

So Michael's nephew Michael followed him as emperor, becoming Michael V. And if you're thinking right about now, hey, it seems like there's a pattern here, and he's probably not going to act very grateful for Zoe's help in getting him on the throne. Spoiler alert. You're exactly right. And we're going to talk about that after a sponsor break.

[Jason Alexander]

I'm Jason Alexander.

[Peter Tilden]

And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the really Know really.

[Jason Alexander]

Podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions, like.

[Peter Tilden]

Why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor.

[Jason Alexander]

We got the answer.

[Peter Tilden]

Will space junk block your cell? Signal the astronaut who almost drowned her? A spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's going to drop by.

[Jason Alexander]

Mr. Brian Cranston is with us.

[Peter Tilden]

How are you?

[Jason Alexander]

Hello.

[Peter Tilden]

My friend Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park.

[Jason Alexander]

Wayne Knight, welcome to really no, really, sir. Bless you all.

[Peter Tilden]

Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging.

[Jason Alexander]

Really?

[Holly Fry]

That's the opening.

[Jason Alexander]

Really? No, really? Yeah. Really? No, really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win.

[Peter Tilden]

$500, a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign, Jason Bobblehead.

[Jason Alexander]

It's called really no really? And you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarke]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarke]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Even though Michael V's acceptance as Emperor was really only possible thanks to Zoe agreeing to adopt him and publicly supporting him, once he was on the throne, he banished her to a monastery and started spreading rumors that she had been plotting to kill him. And although there are some sources that conclude that Zoe really was involved in the poisoning of her first husband, Romanos, or at least that it was possible that she had been, they also generally agree that this whole accusation by, you know, the, the younger Michael, now Michael V, like that, was just baseless.

[Holly Fry]

As word spread about Zoe's treatment, the people of Constantinople were outraged. In the words of Tsello, quote, the indignation, in fact, was universal, and all were ready to lay down their lives for Zoe. Michael's father, being of common birth, made the whole thing particularly insulting. Quote, how was it this lowborn fellow dared to raise a hand against a woman of such lineage?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

When people learned that Zoe had been banished to a monastery, an armed mob attacked the palace and started tearing down royal buildings. Zoe was retrieved from the monastery to give a public appearance alongside Michael V, still dressed in her nun's habit. But this really did not appease the mob. They did not want Zoe the nun. They wanted Zoe the empress.

[Holly Fry]

Also, the people of Constantinople had not forgotten about Zoe's sister Theodora, who had spent at least the previous 10 years in a monastery. When they couldn't restore Zoe to the throne, they went to Theodora's monastery, brought her out of it, and proclaimed her to be the Empress.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This did not settle all the unrest, though. And In April of 1042, Emperor Michael V fled the palace. According to the chronographia, his relationship with his uncles had become increasingly contentious, and he'd had all of them castrated, with the exception of his uncle Constantine, who he had promoted to nobilissimus. And in the wake of the mob's attack on the palace, both Michael V and his uncle Constantine were exiled and blinded.

[Holly Fry]

And with that, there were two empresses, Zoe and Theodora, both of whom had popular support, even though a lot of people didn't think it was quite proper for a woman to be empress without a husband. The empresses dismissed everyone who had been involved with Zoe's banishment, and they kept the people they thought were loyal, but otherwise they did not appoint new counselors for a while.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Here is how the chronographio describes them. Quote the elder Zoe was the quicker to understand ideas, but slower to give them utterance. With Theodora, on the other hand, it was just the reverse in both respects, for she did not readily show her innermost thoughts. But once she had embarked on a conversation, she would chatter away with an expert and lively tongue. Zoe was a woman of passionate interests, prepared with equal enthusiasm for both alternatives, death or life. I mean, in that she reminded me of sea waves now lifting a ship high and then plunging it down to the depths. Such characteristics were certainly not found in Theodora. In fact, she had a calm disposition and in one way, if I may put it so, a dull one. Zoe was open handed, the sort of woman who could exhaust a sea teeming with gold dust in one day. The other counted her stators when she gave away money, partly no doubt because her limited resources forbade any reckless spending, and partly because inherently she was more self controlled. In this manner.

[Holly Fry]

I can't help but think about Zoe and her perfumes also being associated with poisons. He also describes Zoe as very pious and not enjoying the typically feminine tasks like spinning and working on a loom, but really enjoying again, that thing that I just referenced, making perfumes and having a laboratory set up in her rooms for that purpose.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

When it comes to talking about their leadership, though, Salash is not quite as flattering. I mean, I would call that earlier thing that I read kind of flattering, but also sometimes a little tempered. But when it came to talking about their rule, he wrote, quote, to put it quite candidly, for my present purpose is not to compose a eulogy, but to write an accurate history. Neither of them was fitted by temperament to govern. They neither knew how to administer, nor were they capable of serious argument. On the subject of politics, for the most Part, they confused the trifles of the harem with important matters of state. Even the very trait of the elder sister, which is commended among many folk today, namely her ungrudging liberality, dispensed very widely over a long period of time. Even this trait, although it was no doubt satisfactory to those who enjoyed it because of the benefits they received from her, was, after all, the sole cause in the first place, of the universal corruption and of the reduction of Roman fortunes to their lowest ebb.

[Holly Fry]

Zoe and Theodora ruled together from April to June of 1042, and as we said earlier, while they both seem to have been beloved, there was an ever present sense that it was simply wrong for them to be on the throne without a man. So, to solidify their position, Zoe married again, this time to Constantine Monomachos. He was a wealthy aristocrat who had a reputation for being a womanizer, but he also had experience in government. He also had his own connection to the dynasty, although it was a somewhat distant one. He was related to Zoe's late first husband, Romanos, and he, in this marriage, became Emperor Constantine ix.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Zoe, Theodora and Constantine all ruled together, but getting married did not really do much to avert scandal as it had been intended. Constantine had a lover named Sflerina, and that by itself would not have raised too many eyebrows, especially if he had kept her in his own house without being too showy about it and without being too, you know, extravagant and public, and any gifts that he might give to her. He did not do that, though. He moved her into the palace and essentially treated her as though she were his wife, giving her the title of Augusta and having the staff refer to her as Empress.

[Holly Fry]

That's not problematic at all. According to the chronographia, Zoe, who at this point was in her 60s, actually didn't really object to this. Sklorina seems to have wanted to stay in the empress's good graces, gifting them things that they particularly loved. For Zoe, that was sweet herbs, and for Theodora it was Persian coins which she collected. But in 1044, Sklerina, who had asthma and had been experiencing chest pains, died suddenly.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Constantine, who it seems Zoe chose as a husband in part because of his administrative experience, turned out to be pretty lavish in his spending and also delegated most of the actual work of governing to other people, just spent money really freely from the royal treasury and did not do a lot of the management work himself. He also ordered the execution of John the Orphano Trophos, who had already been exiled. He fought off a revolt led by a soldier named Maniaces. And the empire also had to defend itself against a Russian fleet which attacked in retaliation for the death of a city and noble who was killed in a brawl in Constantinople. Then there was another attempted usurpation, complete with the false rumor that Constantine was actually dead. That rumor was helped along by the fact that he did have some kind of recurring serious illness.

[Holly Fry]

Toward the end of her life, Zoe put more and more of the day to day administration of the empire in Constantine's hands, which he of course, then delegated. Then, after a short and intense illness, she died in 1050 at the age estimated to be about 72. Constantine was described as being heartbroken after her passing, and he died five years later.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That left Theodora as the last of the Macedonian dynasty. In Salasha's words, quote, she herself appointed her officials, dispensed justice from her throne with due solemnity, exercised her vote in the courts of law, issued decrees, sometimes in writing, sometimes by word of mouth. She gave orders. And her manner did not always show consideration for the feelings of her subjects, for she was sometimes more than a little abrupt. But Selash also says that she didn't trust her own judgment, relying too much on the opinions of other people and appointing a man who was, quote, completely lacking in political temperament as the head of her administration.

[Holly Fry]

And this doesn't come up in the accounts of Zoe and Theodora personally, but it was a big enough historical moment that it seems weird not to mention it. In 1054, the Pope Leo IX excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople, Michael Cerularius, from the Roman Catholic Church, and the Patriarch excommunicated the Pope in turn. This became known as the schism of 1054, or the East West Schism, which was the final split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches after years of growing tension.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So that was toward the end of Theodora's life. She never married. She died on Aug. 31, 1056, at the age of about 75. She named a civil servant as her successor, and he became Michael VI Stratio Tikos.

[Holly Fry]

This was the start of another period of chaos. Michael VI was overthrown in a military rebellion in 1057. And then there was an abdication, a general who took the throne, only to be captured by the Turks and replaced with a puppet ruler. And then yet another military revolt. The Byzantine Empire was finally conquered by the Ottoman Empire in 1453.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, like 400 more years passed between that sum up of things that immediately followed this last. Michael and the end of the empire. There's a mosaic of Zoe and the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul. It bears the inscription Zoe, the Most Pious Augusta. It's also possible that Zoe and Theodora are depicted in medallions in the Kukuli Triptych, which is a cloisonne depiction of the Virgin Mary. The figures in that are not specifically named, but one of these medallions depicts two empresses together with the Virgin Mary possibly possibly being blessed or crowned. And it's actually the only known depiction of two empresses together with the Virgin Mary in all of Byzantine art. That is the kind of roller coaster of Zoe and Theodora with with some.

[Holly Fry]

Question marks about the the accounts in some cases, yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And the what who poisoned whom? And did. Did did anyone drown accidentally or were they purposefully drowned? So many, so many potential murders and assassinations in this story. Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send us a note, our email address is historypodcastheartradio.com and you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarke]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.