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Tracy V. Wilson
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Jason Alexander
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Peter Tilden
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Jason Alexander
And together our mission on the really.
Peter Tilden
Know really podcast is to get the.
Jason Alexander
True answers to life's baffling questions, like.
Peter Tilden
Why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor, what's in the museum a failure, and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer.
Jason Alexander
Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win.
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Jason Alexander
Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Maria Tremarke
Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.
Holly Fry
And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.
Maria Tremarke
Each season we explore a new theme, from poisoners to art thieves.
Holly Fry
We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.
Maria Tremarke
And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.
Holly Fry
Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Osvaldo Schin
Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok. To ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture, and everywhere in between. Join us Listen tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Holly Fry
Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.
Tracy V. Wilson
Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.
Holly Fry
And I'm Holly Fry.
Tracy V. Wilson
It's time once again for our latest installment of Unearthed. If you are new to the show. This is when a few times a year we talk about things that have been literally and figuratively unearthed over the last few months. This is coming out in January of 2025, but it is our unearthed for the fourth quarter of 2024. We have so many updates to prior things that we have talked about either on Unearthed or other episodes of the show. And then a lot of shipwrecks, a lot of art. There is part two, which will have a lot of other things that were unearthed that will come out on Wednesday.
Holly Fry
So let's start with an update to the top story in our spring 2024 installment of Unearthed. And that is Amelia Earhart's plane. Private exploration company Deep Sea Vision made an announcement back in January that their sonar imaging had revealed a very plane shaped blob on the bottom of the ocean roughly between Hawaii and Papua New Gu. The blob definitely bore a resemblance to a Lockheed Electra, which is what Amelia Earhart and navigator Fred Noonan were flying in. But as Deep Sea Vision CEO Tony Romeo acknowledged at the time, it could just be rocks.
Tracy V. Wilson
It was just rocks. Yeah, that's that whole update. It was just rocks.
Holly Fry
We also have another update on those ruby slippers that were used in the movie the wizard of Oz, which we talked about twice on unearthed in 2024. Our last update about them was that they were going to be auctioned off and they were for $28 million. According to a statement from the auction house. That means they are the most expensive piece of memorabilia ever to be sold at auction.
Tracy V. Wilson
When we talked about this last time, it was hoped that the Judy Garland Museum of Grand Rapids, Minnesota would be able to buy the slippers. That's actually where the slippers were when they were stolen. One of the things that we've been talking about on Unearthed, the auction's winner has remained anonymous, at least as of when we are recording this. But it was not the museum. That $28 million winning bid was way beyond the amount that had been raised to help the museum buy the shoes. Also way more than the estimated auction price from before the sale actually happened. The museum announced that it was not the winner.
Holly Fry
Prior hosts of the show did an episode on the Terracotta army back in 2009. Archaeologists started excavating one part of the tomb of Chinese Emperor Qin shi Huang in 2015. And in December it was announced that they had found a terracotta warrior that seems to depict a high ranking military officer. There are three thousands of life sized clay statues in the terracotta army, but this is only one of ten high ranking officers that have been found so far. Based on the figure's dress and where he was found, he may have been intended to represent the highest ranking member of his unit.
Tracy V. Wilson
Moving on all the way back in 2013, which is so long ago, we did a two part episode on the Lions of Savo, also called the Ghost and the Darkness, who killed more than 30 workers, workers on the Uganda Railroad in 1898. This kind of behavior was really not typical of lions, and in that episode we talked about how they had signs of dental disease that might have affected how they were acting and what they were eating. This also came up in a 2017 installment of Unearthed when we talked about some research into dental microware textures that suggested that they had only been eating their prey's meat, they had not been chewing on or eating the bones, and that that may have been because of their dental pain.
Holly Fry
Research published in the journal Current Biology in November has looked at what kinds of animals they were eating based on the hair that was impacted in those damaged areas of their teeth, and they found oryx, waterbuck, wildebeest and zebra hair, as well as hair from two different giraffe species and of course human hair. And there was also lion hair from the lions grooming themselves and one another. But there was almost no Cape Buffalo hair, which is a staple for lions in the Tsavo region today. That may be connected to the decline in Cape Buffalo in the late 19th century due to rinderpest. We have an episode on rinderpest as well from April 8, 2020. DNA research that was part of this work also confirmed that the Ghost and the Darkness were siblings.
Tracy V. Wilson
Next, previous hosts of the show did an episode on the bayou tapestry on July 27, 2011, that is the medieval embroidery chronicling the Norman Conquest of Britain. At least eight feet of this embroidery are missing, and in October it was announced that French artist Alain d'oprat has been tapped to create a depiction of the coronation of William the Conqueror. To help fill in this missing portion, Delprat gave an interview saying that this is not a restoration or a reconstruction, but it will be something that evokes that moment from history.
Holly Fry
Delprat works in painting, sculpture, film and other media, and the actual panel will be made at Paris's Gobelins Manufactory, which dates back to the 15th century. The exact timing is still to be worked out, but it's possible that this will be done in time for the millennium celebration of the birth of William the Conqueror in 2028, we have two.
Tracy V. Wilson
Different discoveries for our latest Pompeii updates. First, archaeologists at Pompeii have found a very small house, one that headlines are pretty consistently describing as tiny. And the walls are covered in frescoes showing scenes from mythology. These frescoes are very well preserved and the house is being called the House of Phaedra, after the mythological Qu Athens, who's shone in one of these frescoes.
Holly Fry
Older homes in Pompeii were often built around an atrium with a central pool for collecting rainwater and rooms around the edges. But eventually trends shifted towards smaller, more compact homes like this one, but ones that were still luxurious in their construction and decor.
Tracy V. Wilson
The other Pompeii find is about DNA research carried out by a team from the University of Florence, Harvard University and the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany. One of the most memorable features of Pompeii is the casts of bodies of people who died in the eruption and were buried in the volcanic ash. This left voids where their bodies had been, and some of those were filled with plaster in the 19th century. These plaster casts can be really evocative, and it's basically human nature to try to fill in the backstory and interpret who these people were based on the casts. But of course, those backstories and interpretations are influenced by the worldviews, biases and opinions of anybody that's doing that.
Holly Fry
Interpreting recent DNA research on skeletal material from within some of the casts has really upended some of those interpretations. Like one group of four people found together has largely been interpreted as being members of a family. But according to their DNA, three of them were not biologically related and the tests on the fourth were inconclusive. Another pair of casts was believed to be a mother wearing a gold bracelet holding her child on her lap. But these instead appear to be someone genetically male holding a child that they were not physically related, related to.
Tracy V. Wilson
The team who did this work also recognized that these kinds of DNA studies have their limits, just like visual and archaeological interpretations of the casts. In a press release, Harvard Genetics professor David Reich said, quote, instead of establishing new narratives that might also misrepresent these people's experiences, the genetic results encourage reflection on the dangers of making up stories about gender and family relationships in past societies based on present day expectations.
Holly Fry
And one last thing, not about the city, but about the Vesuvius volcano. The Archaeological park of Pompeii publishes data from the ongoing archaeological work in the site in its E journal, which launched last year. In December 2024, the journal published the date of the construction of Pompeii Premises for an open debate, which examines questions around when that eruption actually happened. And that paper and its title are in Italian. This is an English translation.
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah, I do not read Italian, so I was not able to read this paper for myself. The commonly held date of the eruption is August 24th. That's the date that was mentioned by Pliny the Younger, although his original writings have been lost, and what we have today are later copies and translations of that work. But in the late 18th century, researchers put forth a different date, of October 24. And in 2018, archaeologists at the park found an inscription that was dated October 17th, and that was something that seemed like it could back up that date. This was because the inscription was done in charcoal, which is very delicate. So the idea was that it must have been made shortly before the eruption and was buried and preserved, rather than much longer before that, where it would have weathered away before the eruption happened.
Holly Fry
Archaeologists at the park conducted an experiment using charcoal to write on the same wall in October of 2023 to see if the note was still visible the following August, which it was. The paper also offers counterarguments to some of the other evidence that's been used to support a later date for the eruption, like what kinds of seasonal foods have been found at the site. Ultimately, the paper sort of cautiously supports the idea that Pliny the Younger was correct, but without conclusively saying that was the case.
Tracy V. Wilson
Past host of the show talked about Pompeii on October 19, 2009, and of course, it has been on seemingly every installment of Unearth.
Holly Fry
We did an episode on the Paris Catacombs on October 23, 2019, following our trip to Paris that same year. In the late 18th century, cemeteries around Paris were emptied out and the remains they had held were dumped into the catacombs. Our episode goes into the reasons why that happened and how it was carried out later on, walls were built along passages in the catacombs using the skulls and long bones. One of these collapsed in 2022, which gave researchers an opportunity to study the bones more closely.
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah, the idea was that since the wall had already collapsed, they would be able to do that work without, like, further disturbing the remains. This is the first serious scientific study of the skeletal remains in that ossuary. This effort involves a team of archaeologists, anthropologists, biologists, and doctors, and they're studying the bones to try to get a sense of what public health was like in Paris over the centuries in which these people lived and died. So they're looking at physical damage to the bones, like evidence of past injuries or amputations, as well as evidence of illnesses, infections and other conditions that can leave evidence on the bones. This will also give researchers enough information to more accurately estimate just how many people's bones were placed in the catacombs.
Holly Fry
We also did a two part episode on Ernest Shackleton's expeditions to Antarctica in March of 2022, after the wreck of his ship was found. A new 3D digital scan of the wreck was released in October showing that the ship is still very well preserved with a number of everyday items still visible in the wreckage. The scan was released as part of the promotion for a documentary called Endurance, which is on Disney.
Tracy V. Wilson
Prior hosts of the show talked about ada Lovelace on November 11, 2009. A researcher working at the Royal Society has found four letters from her to Sir John Herschel which were written in 1848. These were letters that the Royal Society did know about, but they had been misfiled at some point in the past, so they didn't actually know where they were. They had been placed in a volume that was called miscellaneous 19 and apparently they had been filed under the name Augusta Ada King, which was her name, but that left off the Countess of Lovelace. That would have made it more obviously clear who these letters belonged to.
Holly Fry
These letters offer an example of the steps Ada Lovelace had to take at a time in which women were not considered capable of things like complex mathematics and astronomy. She ostensibly writes on behalf of her husband and takes an extremely self deprecating and apologetic tone, but then asks questions or offers insights that show that she definitely does understand the subject at hand.
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah, it's almost like, hey, I'm really sorry to bother you, but my husband wanted me to ask you this question and I I really don't know anything about this. But then and then just lays out an incredibly complex we're gonna take a quick sponsor break and then have a couple more updates.
Jason Alexander
I'm Jason Alexander.
Peter Tilden
And I'm Peter Tilden and together on the really Know really podcast.
Jason Alexander
Our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions, like why.
Peter Tilden
They refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor.
Jason Alexander
We got the answer.
Peter Tilden
Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer and you never know who's gonna drop by.
Jason Alexander
Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us.
Peter Tilden
How are you?
Jason Alexander
Hello.
Peter Tilden
My friend, Wayne Knight. About Jurassic Park.
Jason Alexander
Wayne Knight, welcome to really? Not really, sir. Bless you all.
Peter Tilden
Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging.
Jason Alexander
Really?
Holly Fry
That's the opening.
Jason Alexander
Really?
Holly Fry
No.
Jason Alexander
Really?
Holly Fry
Yeah. Really?
Jason Alexander
No, really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win.
Peter Tilden
$500, a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign. Jason Bobblehead.
Jason Alexander
It's called really? No really and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Maria Tremarke
Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.
Holly Fry
And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.
Maria Tremarke
Each season we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.
Holly Fry
We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.
Maria Tremarke
We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.
Holly Fry
And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.
Maria Tremarke
Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Osvaldo Schin
Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvaloschin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical, but obsessively intrigued.
Kara Price
And I'm Kara Price, the other new host, and I'm ready to adopt early.
Osvaldo Schin
And often on tech stuff. We travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology.
Tracy V. Wilson
One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians.
Holly Fry
Like data is a very rough proxy.
Jason Alexander
For a complex reality.
Osvaldo Schin
How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?
Kara Price
Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you understand how tech is changing our world and what you need to know to survive the singularity. So join us.
Osvaldo Schin
Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Tracy V. Wilson
Stonehenge has made a lot of appearances on Unearthed since we covered it back in 2014. That 2014 episode was because there had been research about it. This includes our most recent installment of Unearthed before this one. That time, that most recent prior episode, we talked about research suggesting that the central stone at the site known as the Altar Stone had come from northeastern Scotland. A subsequent paper actually called that into question to an extent, suggesting that while the stone did come from a formation in northeastern Scotland known as the Orcadian Basin, it wasn't specifically from Orkney, which was the part of the basin that was pinpointed in that paper. Previous installments of Unearthed have also discussed research that concluded that other stones at the site came from Wales.
Holly Fry
Research published in Archaeology International in late December draws on all of this, suggesting that Stonehenge was built in an effort to unify farmers on the island of Great Britain. The stones used to make the circle weren't local to Salisbury Plain, and in some cases they had to be moved hundreds of miles to get there. The paper's authors described this use of non local stone as unique among Britain's stone circles, and they suggest that in addition to religious or spiritual meanings surrounding the stones, there may have been a more social and political aspect of trying to bring people together. On a practical level, moving the stones from so far away would have required the immense effort of people in these far flung communities. And then once the circle was built, the stones themselves may have symbolized those distant groups.
Tracy V. Wilson
It's not clear whether this interpretation is correct, but it is interesting.
Holly Fry
I love that interpretation.
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. Lastly, for our updates, we have some updates related to the boarding schools for Indigenous children that we've talked about in several episodes of the show, including our two parter on the Fort Shaw Indian School girls basketball team and our three parter on Jim Thorpe. Both of those episodes were about children who were athletes at the schools and were protected from some of the worst elements of going there. These schools were part of the United States effort to eradicate Indigenous peoples, in this case through cultural genocide. Much of the ongoing work involving the history of these schools is connected to the Federal Indian Boarding School Initiative, which we talked about on Unearthed in July of 2022 after it released the first volume of its investigative report into the school's history. That report said that at least 1,000 children had died in these schools, according to federal records but that the actual number was likely a lot higher. In late December, the Washington Post published the results of its own investigation, which concluded that the death toll was more than 3,000.
Holly Fry
An oral history project started in March and is planned to continue through 2026 as a joint effort between the National Native American Boarding School Healing coalition and the U.S. department of the Interior. We cannot say as we are recording this whether the changing presidential administration is going to affect that timeline. This project has involved a team of historians visiting Indigenous communities in multiple states to record video interviews in a way that incorporates Indigenous practices with Indigenous psychologists on hand. And the intent is to take a holistic approach so that people's participation in these oral histories is healing rather than traumatizing. The Department of the Interior and the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History are working on ways to share these histories, but the survivors own the interviews they give, and they are the ones who decide whether their stories become public.
Tracy V. Wilson
As we also noted in one of our other episodes this fall, President Joe Biden also formally apologized on behalf of the US Government earlier this year, saying in part, quote, quite frankly, there's no excuse. This apology took 50 years to make. Biden also announced a new national monument being established at the site of Carlisle Indian Industrial School in December. Because that school was on the site of what's an active military installation, this new monument will be co maintained by the Department of the army and the Department of the Interior.
Holly Fry
Moving on to some shipwrecks, a team in Wisconsin started a search for the wreck of the John Evanson earlier this year. The John Evanson was a wooden tugboat that sank on June 5, 1895, after crossing in front of the I.W. stevenson, which was the ship it was preparing to tow. Four of the five crew survived the wreck, and the exact site of the wreckage had remained a mystery since that time.
Tracy V. Wilson
Two maritime historians studied newspaper accounts of the wreck before starting side scan sonar surveys, and those revealed the wreck just minutes into the first day of what was planned as a three day search, which delights me. They followed up with photographs that were taken with a remote operated vehicle, and the Wisconsin Historical Society announced the find at the end of September, a little too late to wind up. In our autumn installment of Unearthed, a.
Holly Fry
British submarine called the HMS Trooper vanished after a secret mission in 1943 which involved carrying three resistance agents to an island on the western coast of Greece. Afterward, it was supposed to go on patrol, but when it didn't arrive in Beirut as expected on October 17th of that year, its crew was presumed lost underwater Recovery company Planet Blue had gone on 14 previous expeditions trying to find this wreck, based on the last place it had reportedly been seen just three days before it failed to arrive.
Tracy V. Wilson
But it turned out that that sighting, which had happened on October 14, was a case of mistaken identity. That was really a different British submarine of the same class. Eventually, the team decided to try looking in a different area, where the submarine probably would have been earlier on in the month. They spotted the wreck on October 3rd of this year using shipboard sonar. Then they again followed up with a remote operated vehicle. This wreck is broken in two, suggesting that it ran into a German mine. And since its conning tower was open, it was probably traveling along the surface of the water when it happened. Since the submarine is a war grave, it is being left undisturbed.
Holly Fry
Researchers working with remains of sailors aboard the Mary Rose have found a possible connection between handedness and the chemical makeup of the clavicle. That's the collarbone. The Mary Rose sank in battle on July 19, 1545, and the wreck is now housed at the Mary Rose Museum in Portsmouth, England. This was covered in the 2011 episode 5 Shipwreck Stories and it's made several appearances on Unearthed.
Tracy V. Wilson
This research examined the clavicles of 12 men from the ship who were between the ages of 13 and 40 using a non destructive imaging technology called Raman spectroscopy. And they found that the chemical makeup of the clavicle varied according to people's ages. These age related changes were more pronounced in the right clavicles than the left. Today, about 10% of the world's population is left handed. But left handedness was extremely stigmatized during the Tudor era. So it's likely that any left handed people on the crew would have intentionally used their right hands instead. It really makes sense that the increased use of the right hand and arm would have some kind of effect on the clavicle. And this research suggests that effect is there all the way at the chemical level.
Holly Fry
Divers have documented a wreck off the coast of Sicily that was first spotted by Fishers in 2022. The wreck itself is buried in sand and what's visible is a collection of 40 ceramic vessels, many of them still neatly stacked as they were when the cargo was loaded. In the photos they're mostly purple and some of them have become home to various kinds of marine life.
Tracy V. Wilson
It's hard to tell from the pictures whether they like how accurate the color is because this is being taken underwater, but they're a really cool looking color. In my opinion. A lot is still unknown about this ship. And its cargo. The vessels. These ceramic vessels, they're believed to be a type known as Richborough 527 and that is named for where the vessels were first classified. Richboro is in England, but the ceramic vessels are believed to have been made on the Aeolian island of Lipari, approximately 1900 to 2100 years ago. If this is really what they are, they might contain alum, which was commonly shipped in vessels like these.
Holly Fry
Conservators have finished their work on two bottles that were recovered from a wreck off the coast of Florida a couple of years. These are known as onion bottles or glass onions because of their shape, which is sort of like half an onion with the stem still attached at the top. This is a style of wine bottle that was first developed in the mid 17th century.
Tracy V. Wilson
It is not common for whole onion bottles to be found on shipwrecks because they're particularly delicate, even more delicate than a lot of other styles of glass bottle. These in particular were also covered in sand and marine life, and they were peeling apart because the glass itself was delaminating. So conservators spent just months cleaning and drying them before coating them in a resin to try to preserve them. The fact that they found two of them still intact with all this in mind is really incredible.
Holly Fry
The exact ship these bottles came from is not known, but it was part of the Spanish Plate fleet that sailed in 1715. Eleven ships from that fleet sank in a hurricane.
Tracy V. Wilson
Research published in the Journal of Maritime Archaeology in November has concluded that a shipwreck that was found off the coast of Kenya in 2013 may have been part of the last voyage of vasco da gama. 20 ships were part of this voyage, and one of them, the Sao Jourge, was captured and sank in 1524. They based this conclusion about the ship's identity on analysis of objects that were recovered from it during underwater archaeological work, including some pieces of the ship's hull.
Holly Fry
A team working off the coast of Northern Ireland believes they have found the wreck of the HMS Stephen Furness, which was sunk by a German torpedo on December 13, 1917, while traveling to Liverpool for repairs. This effort was part of a project to find and identify multiple wrecks in the area. It combined multi beam sonar scans of all the places where the various ships were reported to have been sighted, and historical records around the ships and their losses. The wreck, believed to be the Stephen Furness, was in an area where a German commander had reported firing a torpedo at a ship.
Tracy V. Wilson
There's also another wreck that was connected to this discovery, which is a Swedish vessel called the Maya, which sank in the same general area after being torpedoed about a year later. The wreck, now believed to be the Stephen Furness, was originally identified as that other ship, which that ship is now believed to be a different wreck that's a few miles to the south.
Holly Fry
And lastly, the deterioration of shipwrecks has come up on a couple of installments of Unearthed. And this can happen to the ships themselves and to wooden artifacts on board. Conservators best efforts to preserve and protect them don't always work out after they've been waterlogged, sometimes for centuries. In addition to the effects of the water itself, the underwater conditions can also lead to the growth of bacteria and fungi that continue to damage the wood.
Tracy V. Wilson
There are several techniques that conservators can use to try to deal with this. They have included freeze drying the wood or using a pressurized process to force water out of the wood and replace it with something like carbon dioxide or a polymer. Another option is to paint the wood while it's still wet with a gel that neutralizes the compounds produced by bacteria and fungi that can damage the wood. All of these different techniques have their own downsides, including how long they take, how expensive they are, and in terms of that gel, possible damage to the wood when it's removed. But researchers have developed a new technique that involves coating the wood in a hydrogel that first neutralizes acids and kills bacteria and then just dissolves over time, rather than needing to be manually removed. This is still kind of at the proof of concept stage, but tests on wood from an 800-year-old wreck that was found off the south coast of China seem pretty promising.
Holly Fry
We are going to take a quick sponsor break here and then we're going to talk about art.
Tracy V. Wilson
So much art.
Holly Fry
Woo.
Jason Alexander
I'm Jason Alexander.
Peter Tilden
And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the really Know really podcast.
Jason Alexander
Our mission is to get the true answers to life's bashful, baffling questions, like.
Peter Tilden
Why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor.
Jason Alexander
We got the answer.
Peter Tilden
Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer, and you never know who's going to drop by.
Jason Alexander
Mr. Brian Kratz, how are you? Hello.
Peter Tilden
My friend Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park.
Jason Alexander
Wayne Knight, welcome to really no, really, sir. Bless you all.
Peter Tilden
Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging.
Jason Alexander
Really?
Holly Fry
That's the opening?
Jason Alexander
Really? Not really. Yeah, really. No, really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win.
Peter Tilden
500 a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign Jason Bobblehead.
Jason Alexander
It's called really? No, really. And you can find it on the iHeartRadio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
Maria Tremarke
Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.
Holly Fry
And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.
Maria Tremarke
Each season we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.
Holly Fry
We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.
Maria Tremarke
We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.
Holly Fry
And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.
Maria Tremarke
Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Osvaldo Schin
Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvaloshin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical, but obsessively intrigued.
Kara Price
And I'm Cara Price, the other new host, and I'm ready to adopt early.
Osvaldo Schin
And often on tech Stuff. We travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology.
Jason Alexander
One of the kind of tricks for.
Tracy V. Wilson
Surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians.
Holly Fry
Like data is a very rough proxy.
Jason Alexander
For a complex reality.
Osvaldo Schin
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Tracy V. Wilson
Now we get to talk about a whole bunch of art. Back in 1962, a junk dealer in Capri, Italy, found a painting in a basement while cleaning out a home, put that painting in an inexpensive frame, and then hung it up on his own wall because he liked it. In October, it was announced that the scientific committee of the Arcadia foundation has determined that this painting is an original Picasso, although that has not yet been confirmed by official Picasso authenticators, at least not as of when we're recording this.
Holly Fry
What's weirdly delightful about the news reporting on this is that multiple articles make it sound like this was a huge and unexpected surprise, but the painting definitely looks like a Picasso. It shows a stylized figure facing out from the canvas in a blue top with long brown hair and a face that is surreally divided into two portions, with one oversized eye forming the connection between one part where the mouth is and the other part, which has an ear, the nose, and the other eye. It's believed to be a portrait of surrealist artist Dora Maher, who was in a relationship with Picasso at the time that this was likely painted. And Capri, where it was found, is somewhere that Picasso often visited.
Tracy V. Wilson
So aside from looking at this painting and going, hey, that like, it looks like a Picasso, the painting has Picasso's signature on it in the top left corner, and that signature also resembles ones on other works that were known to be by him. So sure, this could have been a forgery, but the idea that it might be a Picasso didn't just come out of nowhere for people to be totally flabbergasted when it turned out to be a Picasso.
Holly Fry
God, it's a Picasso. Apparently, the man who originally found this painting, Luigi laroso, wasn't very knowledgeable about art, and the painting became a source of strife between him and his wife, who thought it was horrible to look at. But their son started questioning whether it might be a Picasso after seeing similar work in an art history book, and that is what led them to try to have it authenticated.
Tracy V. Wilson
I just love this whole story, honestly.
Holly Fry
Like, I hate that ugly painting. Wait a minute.
Tracy V. Wilson
Researchers working on an exhibition called Picturing Childhood at Chatsworth House in England have identified a black child shown in a family portrait that was painted by Jean Baptiste Valou in 1739. It was common at this point for wealthy families in England to have either free or enslaved black children working in their households, and it was also fairly common for these children to appear in portraiture of the family, typically in the background or near the edge of the scene often doing something related to what was going on in the portrait. In this case, this child is carrying paint brushes for Lady Dorothy Boyle, who was a painter herself and is holding an artist's palette in her hand. There's also an easel with a canvas on it in the background behind the family.
Holly Fry
This child had previously been identified as James Cambridge because that's how his name had appeared on a tailor's bill for household servants livery in 1739. But his name was really James Cumberlidge, known to the family as Jem, and he was a paid servant. His father had been freed upon the death of his enslaver. That was a white man named Christopher Cumberlidge. And this research also revealed that James had a brother named Kit.
Tracy V. Wilson
The uniqueness of that last name. Cumberledge has made it more possible for researchers to find out more about James Cumberlage and his life than can be done for a lot of other black people who were living in Britain in the 18th century. James and two other black servants had lessons from a schoolmaster when they were children and they learned to read and write. Cumberlidge continued to work for the family into his adulthood. And then after the death of the Countess, he became a trumpeter for King George ii. He eventually owned property and he had a wife and child of his own. There is a whole article about his life with a lot more detail at the Chatsworth House website. This one caught my eye because some of the headlines described this as research that could, quote, rewrite black history in Britain, which in my opinion is kind of overstated. This is definitely way more information that we previously had about this one person, and that is important. But this is not the first evidence of black Britons in the 18th century, including black Britons who were literate or served in the royal household or owned property. Like, we do know more about this one person, which I love, but it.
Holly Fry
Doesn'T really rewrite black history.
Tracy V. Wilson
No.
Holly Fry
Yeah. In October, Oxford University's Bodleian Libraries announced the discovery of what may be the earliest engraving work by William Blake, done when he was a 15 year old apprentice working in the studio of James Bazire. Many of these aren't visible to the naked eye and were discovered using a non contact high resolution recording system known as the Selene photometric stereo system. Some of these look like practice work and some like distracted doodling. Like one is the plate maker's mark, but the O in London is filled in with cross hatching. Another is an arrow motif and one shows a simple but Evocative face looking out from the plate.
Tracy V. Wilson
It's not conclusively known that this is William Blake's work. The plates do date from a time when he was known to be an apprentice there, but none of them really contain something concretely identifying, like writing his name over and over, practicing his handwriting.
Holly Fry
There are doodly demons everywhere. Paul Gauguin's 1888 painting the Little Cat is on loan to the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam, and the museum has done a technical investigation of it, including X ray analysis. This X ray analysis has revealed some distortion in the canvas caused by how it was attached to the stretcher frame, suggesting that Gauguin may have trimmed off the right side of the painting at one point. And they also found the remains of a beetle. It's not known exactly what kind because it is not intact. It seems likely that the beetle got into the paint while Gauguin was working on this canvas. Poor thing.
Tracy V. Wilson
I know, and yet I love it that there's a little beetle on there. Archaeologists in Greece have unearthed a portrait of Constantine XI Palaiologos, the last Byzantine emperor, which may have been painted from life. This dates back to the mid 15th century and was found at a monastery in western Greece. If this was painted while he was still alive, this also would be the last known painting of a Byzantine emperor emperor created during their reign, and only known depiction of this emperor actually created during his lifetime.
Holly Fry
Conservators at the Old North Church in Boston are working to undo renovation work from more than a century ago, including removing layers of paint to reveal murals of cherubic angels around the arches near the sanctuary ceiling. Those angels were painted in the late 1720s and early 1730s. They resemble stone carvings, and each of the ones that has been uncovered so far has a subtly different expression and posture.
Tracy V. Wilson
For reasons that aren't fully clear at this point. Church officials painted over the Angels in 1912. One possibility for why they did this was that in the early 20th century, there was a colonial revival movement going on. And that might have made people at the church want it to have just sort of what they thought of as a more colonial work, which, I mean, you do see a lot of solid color or solid white walls and a lot of things that are supposed to be colonial. But like these paintings of angels dated back to the colonial era, they were original to that time when the angels were first painted. The Old North Church was an Anglican church. So it's really not surprising that it might have had just somewhat different an interior aesthetic from the area's Puritan churches.
Holly Fry
This restoration work was motivated in part by the 250th anniversary of Paul Revere's ride that's coming up this April. One of the historical moments connected to the church is the use of lanterns as signals for the invasion of the British troops, one if by land and two if by sea.
Tracy V. Wilson
And we'll wrap up today's episode with a couple of finds that are related to rock art. First, research published in the journal Archaeological Research in Africa has looked at the depiction of musical instruments in rock art in Zimbabwe. This has followed some earlier research into depictions of musical instruments and rock art in South Africa. The rock art in this region has been studied a lot, but a lot of that research has more involved documenting the sites themselves rather than analyzing or interpreting the art there.
Holly Fry
This research looked at artwork made by the San people and categorized the artwork using an instrument classification system known as the hornbostel sax system. This system uses five categories based on where in an instrument musical vibrations are produced. So, for example, ideophones use the vibration of solid matter, like striking a key on a xylophone or shaking a shaker. This research used four of the five categories, since the fifth, electrophones, is for electronically amplified instruments.
Tracy V. Wilson
So a team used the postures of the figures and the objects they appear to be holding to identify rattles, a drum, trumpets, flutes, and a bull roar. They also found regional differences in the types of instruments that are depicted, like rattles that could be held in the hand or attached to a person's arms or legs. And they found correlations between musical instruments and trance motifs, suggesting that the instruments were used in rituals and ceremonies. And in some cases, there are correlations between specific instruments and the genders of the people that are playing them.
Holly Fry
And lastly, research into rock paintings in southeastern Finland dating back to between 5000 and 1500 BCE suggests that the surrounding acoustic environment was part of the artwork. This research involved taking audio measurements either from boats or from the ice surface when the water was frozen. They found that the cliffs on which the art was painted produced single echoes which seemed to originate from behind the painted surface so people could talk to the elks painted on the cliffside and then hear the elk responding in a voice that sounded like their own. Other nearby cliffs had a more jagged surface and produced much weaker echoes, and the cliffs around dwelling sites didn't produce echoes at all. The University of Helsinki has a video on YouTube showing what the effect is like with a drum. A musical artist strikes a drum from a boat and the cliff seems to answer back.
Tracy V. Wilson
This is in my opinion incredibly cool.
Holly Fry
Oh, it's so cool.
Tracy V. Wilson
It's one of those things that we don't know for sure that the people who made this artwork put it there on purpose for this reason or how they might have incorporated the echoes into the experience of the art if they did. But they are so distinctive that it does seem probable that this use of the echoes was intentional. And that is it for part one of Unearthed. We will have more stuff on Wednesday.
Holly Fry
Do you have listener mail for today?
Tracy V. Wilson
I do have listener mail. It is also about art. It is from Deborah who wrote hello Tracy and Hollywood really enjoyed the Hangover show, but a small knit Regarding Suzanne Valadon. I was sorry to hear you describe her simply as a former circus performer who had a relationship with Lautrec. This happens so often to women, being reduced to a muse when she was a very accomplished artist in her own right. She will have major show at the Pompidou center in Paris starting later this month. Looking forward to more great episodes in 2025. Deborah, so thank you for this email. Deborah. The description of that painting, the information in it came from the website of Harvard Art Museums, which is actually where that painting is in the collections. I have not personally seen it, but I should go down there. And that description at the Harvard Art Museum website does describe her as a well known artist later in her life, but that was a long time after this painting was actually done. So at the time of the painting, Suzanne Valadon had been a circus performer. She was injured in a fall from a trapeze and so that sort of ended her circus career and she started supporting herself as a model for a number of artists, including Toulouse or Trek and Renoir. Probably the thing that people will be able to imagine the most beyond this Hangover painting is that she's the woman dancing in Renoir's the Dance at Bougival, which I don't that's just in my opinion, like one of the most familiar Renoir paintings. Also, Berthe Morisot, who we have talked about on the show before, painted her walking on a tightrope. But Suzanne Voladon was not just modeling, she was also learning as much as she could from these artists while she was modeling because she couldn't afford regular art lessons. She'd been drawing and sketching since she was a little kid. Her first known paintings were from around 1892, which again is after the Hangover was painted. She met and became friends with Edgar Degas, who helped her with her art career. She had five drawings at the Salon of the Societe Nationale des beaux Arts in 1894 and she was I think the first self taught woman to have work at the Salon, but her peak as an artist in terms of her career was really in the 1920s. That was like way after this painting was done. She also had a son who we have mentioned on the show before, which is Maurice Utrillo who we mentioned in our episode on the Domenico Guillaume art scandal. He was one of the people whose artwork Paul Guillaume was buying before he had really made a name for himself as his artist. I really don't think I had ever heard Suzanne Valadon's name before doing this episode. Definitely did not ring a bell to me and I don't like I didn't really know anything about her career beyond that. The description mentioned that later on she became a well known painter in her own life. I do wanna stress that I was not mentally framing her in any way as a so called museum when I wrote that couple of sentences in my head. She was a whole person who had a whole life. That was really not the point of the episode, which to me was more about trying to describe what this painting was like so that people would get a sense of the visual element in an audio podcast. But I did want to take the opportunity to talk more about Suzanne Valadon as a an artist since Deborah brought that up in this email. So thank you again Deborah for your note. If you would like to send us a note about this or any other podcast, we are@history podcastheartradio.com you can subscribe to the show in the iHeartRadio app or anywhere else you like to get your podcasts. Stuff you missed in history Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Stuff You Missed in History Class - Unearthed! Year-end 2024, Part 1
Hosted by Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry, produced by iHeartRadio.
In the latest installment of Unearthed! Year-end 2024, Part 1, hosts Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry delve into a myriad of fascinating historical updates and discoveries unearthed over the past year. This episode provides comprehensive updates on previously discussed topics as well as new intriguing findings across various historical eras and disciplines.
The episode opens with an update on the enduring mystery of Amelia Earhart’s disappearance. Back in January, the private exploration company Deep Sea Vision announced that their sonar imaging had detected a plane-shaped object on the ocean floor between Hawaii and Papua New Guinea, resembling the Lockheed Electra that Amelia Earhart and navigator Fred Noonan piloted. However, Tracy Wilson dismisses the excitement:
Tracy V. Wilson [03:42]: "It was just rocks. Yeah, that's that whole update. It was just rocks."
Despite initial excitement, the evidence remains inconclusive, leaving the mystery unresolved.
Next, the hosts revisit the story of the famed ruby slippers from The Wizard of Oz. Previously, it was anticipated that the Judy Garland Museum in Grand Rapids, Minnesota, might secure the slippers at auction. However, the latest development reveals:
Tracy V. Wilson [04:18]: "The auction's winner has remained anonymous... it was not the museum. That $28 million winning bid was way beyond the amount that had been raised to help the museum buy the shoes... The museum announced that it was not the winner."
The slippers have set a record as the most expensive piece of memorabilia ever sold at auction, fetching an astonishing $28 million.
The episode then shifts focus to archaeological advancements concerning the Terracotta Army. Building on a 2009 episode, Tracy and Holly discuss the December announcement of a newly discovered terracotta warrior:
Tracy V. Wilson [05:41]: "They may have been intended to represent the highest ranking member of his unit."
This discovery adds depth to our understanding of Emperor Qin Shi Huang’s burial practices, revealing that out of the thousands of clay statues, only ten high-ranking officers have been identified so far.
Recalling the infamous Tsavo Lions, Tracy updates listeners on recent research shedding light on their unusual behavior in the late 19th century:
Tracy V. Wilson [07:21]: "DNA research... confirmed that the Ghost and the Darkness were siblings."
The lions responsible for the deaths of over 30 workers exhibited atypical hunting behaviors, possibly influenced by dental diseases and changes in prey availability due to rinderpest.
The Bayeux Tapestry, a medieval embroidery depicting the Norman Conquest, has received a creative enhancement:
Tracy V. Wilson [07:21]: "French artist Alain d'Opat has been tapped to create a depiction of the coronation of William the Conqueror... part two will be released soon."
Alain d'Opat’s contribution aims to artistically fill in the missing eight feet of the tapestry, providing a fresh perspective on this historic artifact.
Holly and Tracy offer significant updates on recent Pompeii discoveries:
House of Phaedra:
DNA Research on Casts:
Vesuvius Eruption Date Debate:
A captivating study on the Mary Rose, a Tudor warship, examines the relationship between handedness and clavicle chemistry:
Tracy V. Wilson [27:18]: "Left handedness was extremely stigmatized during the Tudor era... it's likely that any left-handed people on the crew would have intentionally used their right hands instead."
Using Raman spectroscopy, researchers discovered age-related chemical variations in the clavicles, particularly in the right collarbones, suggesting habitual use affected bone chemistry.
The ancient Stonehenge site continues to reveal its secrets:
Holly Fry [21:11]: "Stonehenge was built in an effort to unify farmers on the island of Great Britain."
Tracy V. Wilson [22:04]: "It's not clear whether this interpretation is correct, but it is interesting."
Recent research published in Archaeology International posits that the transportation and assembly of non-local stones were possibly a socio-political effort to foster unity among disparate farming communities in prehistoric Britain.
Tracy and Holly address the ongoing revelations about the tragic history of Indigenous boarding schools in the United States:
Tracy V. Wilson [24:21]: "President Joe Biden also formally apologized on behalf of the US Government earlier this year... announced a new national monument being established at the site of Carlisle Indian Industrial School."
An investigation by the Washington Post revealed that over 3,000 Indigenous children died in these institutions, a number significantly higher than previously acknowledged. An oral history project aims to document survivors' experiences, promoting healing and preserving these critical narratives.
Several maritime discoveries feature prominently in this episode:
John Evansson:
HMS Trooper:
Mary Rose Deterioration:
The episode concludes with enthralling updates from the art world:
Picasso Painting Found:
Suzanne Valadon Letters:
Jean Baptiste Valou’s Portrait:
William Blake’s Early Engravings:
Paul Gauguin’s “The Little Cat”:
Rock Art Acoustic Environment:
Towards the end, Tracy addresses listener feedback regarding the portrayal of artist Suzanne Valadon. She clarifies Valadon's multi-faceted career, emphasizing her accomplishments beyond modeling and her significant contributions to the art world.
Tracy V. Wilson [50:22]: "I did not mentally frame her in any way as a so-called muse... She was a whole person who had a whole life."
This segment underscores the importance of recognizing and accurately representing the contributions of historical figures, particularly women artists often overshadowed by their male counterparts.
Unearthed! Year-end 2024, Part 1 offers a rich tapestry of historical updates, bridging past and present discoveries. From archaeological breakthroughs and maritime finds to significant art world revelations, Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry provide listeners with an engaging and informative journey through the annals of history. The episode not only updates previously explored topics but also introduces new narratives that continue to enrich our understanding of the past.
Notable Quotes:
Tracy V. Wilson [03:42]: "It was just rocks. Yeah, that's that whole update. It was just rocks."
Tracy V. Wilson [04:18]: "When we talked about this last time, it was hoped that the Judy Garland Museum of Grand Rapids, Minnesota would be able to buy the slippers... But it was not the museum."
Holly Fry [21:11]: "Stonehenge was built in an effort to unify farmers on the island of Great Britain."
Tracy V. Wilson [10:45]: "Instead of establishing new narratives that might also misrepresent these people's experiences, the genetic results encourage reflection on the dangers of making up stories about gender and family relationships in past societies based on present-day expectations."
Tracy V. Wilson [24:21]: "President Joe Biden also formally apologized on behalf of the US Government earlier this year... established at the site of Carlisle Indian Industrial School."
These quotes encapsulate key moments of the episode, highlighting both confirmations and reconsiderations of historical interpretations.
Stay Tuned: Don't miss the upcoming Part 2 of Unearthed! Year-end 2024, set to release on Wednesday, where Tracy and Holly will continue to explore newly unearthed history treasures and updates from the past year.
Listen to Stuff You Missed in History Class on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.