Podcast Summary: Stuff You Missed in History Class – "Villa de Vecchi"

Podcast: Stuff You Missed in History Class
Hosts: Holly Fry & Tracy B. Wilson
Episode: Villa de Vecchi
Date: October 27, 2025
Theme:
Unpacking the often-told but rarely scrutinized haunted history of Italy’s Villa de Vecchi, exploring the man who commissioned it, the real (and fabricated) tragedies linked to it, how it became an occult legend, and its architectural and cultural significance. The episode also briefly explores a second, fascist-linked Villa de Vecchi on the Greek island of Rhodes.

Main Theme & Purpose

Holly and Tracy dive into the legend-laden Villa de Vecchi—frequently dubbed "Italy's most haunted house"—to distinguish fact from myth. They trace the story of Felice (Felix) de Vecchi, the villa’s origins, and its enduring, ghostly reputation, all while debunking the most salacious rumors. The episode also highlights how the house became a magnet for vandalism and occult lore, its artistic/architectural importance, and the peculiar tale of a second Villa de Vecchi built during Mussolini’s regime.

Detailed Breakdown

Setting the Scene & Motivation

• Holly was inspired to research a haunted place, coming across Villa de Vecchi repeatedly:
  "Photos of it are so beautiful and super intriguing. Spoiler alert. I think I don't believe in haunted places very much these days." (Holly, 03:01)

• The villa is shrouded in competing stories—a brutal murder, haunting, and even political intrigue—but Holly promises a "skeptic’s delight" (03:05), with a two-part structure, the second part connecting to another villa.

1. History & Construction of Villa de Vecchi (Northern Italy)

The Man: Felice (Felix) de Vecchi

• Born 1816, well-traveled artist, military hero (04:26–07:12)
• Fought in the 1848 Five Days of Milan uprising against Austrian rule, cementing his standing as a patriot
• Married Carolina Franchetti di Pontius in 1844; traveled and painted Italian landscapes

The Property & Architectural Vision

• Bought 20-acre plot in Cortenova, near Lake Como, in the 1850s; envisioned a home blending classical Eastern and Indian influences (07:49–08:32)

The Architect: Alessandro Sidoli

• Distinguished Milanese architect, known for blending styles
• Designed a three-story Neo-Gothic mansion with pointed towers, buttresses, rose windows, and lush gardens with a pressurized fountain (09:28–10:43)
  • "It almost blends into that setting. Despite being obviously a fancy home." (Holly, 09:28)
• Interior: Basement (service), ground floor (entertaining/guests), upper floor (private family rooms), intended observatory (unfinished due to Sidoli’s sudden death) (10:43–11:38)
  • Early example of modern amenities (plumbing, heating); comprehensive interior woodwork and frescoes (11:38–12:20)

Construction & Initial Tragedies

• Alessandro Sidoli died late in construction, leading to some omitted design elements
• Felix de Vecchi and family enjoyed the villa for less than a decade before his death

2. Dissecting the Haunting & The Dark Myths

The "Usual Story": Murder & Disappearance

• The popular version: Felix returns from military duty in 1862 to find his wife murdered, daughter missing, and ultimately dies by suicide after a yearlong search (16:31)
• Holly debunks this:
  • Italian sources confirm Carolina died in 1851 (before villa built), Felix died of liver disease in Milan in 1862 (16:31–18:04)
  • "So it seems that the main story that's used as the groundwork for haunting claims at Villa de Vecchi is not really true at all." (Holly, 17:51)

Muddled Myths & Wild Variations (18:04)

• Grisly versions: wife disfigured, daughter as the murderer, or murder as political retribution
• Holly and Tracy stress all are unsubstantiated, often wrongly ascribe victimization to Carolina
• After Felix’s death, brother Biagio took over, altered the villa’s style

A Reputation Grows (Occult, Aleister Crowley, Vandalism)

• By the 20th century, already pegged as an occult site
• Notoriety spikes after Aleister Crowley’s multi-night stay (1922):
  "Once Crowley became associated ... rumors about this property exploded. Claims of orgies, sacrifices, suicides arose—baseless, but persistent." (Holly, 20:36–21:39)
• Reality: Biagio’s family was still living there, undermining rumors of occult activities

Decline & Abandonment

• Family moved out pre-WWII (villa vacant by 1938), never returned. Passed hands but never occupied (21:39–22:37)
• Attempts to offload villa (even for free, if someone promised to restore it), but $5–$6 million restoration costs deterred buyers (22:37–23:06)
• Modern haunting claims fueled vandalism and break-ins. Interior ruined almost entirely by graffiti and neglect.
  • "Literally if you look at pictures, every interior wall and many of the exterior surfaces have been spray painted or just willfully damaged." (Holly, 24:13)

Local Lore & Persistence of Ghost Stories

• Locals still claim piano music and screams heard at night; a broken piano remains inside (24:13–24:53)
• When an avalanche destroyed neighboring houses in 2002—but spared the villa—rumors of supernatural protection intensified (24:53–25:11)

3. Felice de Vecchi Rediscovered & Firsthand Testimonies

Newly Found Diary

• In 2015, de Vecchi's travel journal (from 1840s) was recovered, offering fresh insight into his perspectives and motivations, forming the basis for a major Milanese exhibition (25:11–26:32)
• Revealed de Vecchi's motivation to champion Italian cultural identity

Eyewitness: Giuseppe Negri

• Villa's gardener's descendant, Giuseppe Negri, recounted in a 2018 interview:
  “The reality is there are no ghosts. The ghost was me. Villa de Vecchi was our life, our family … it was heaven on earth.” (Negri, 26:32–27:59)
• Negri and family pretended to be ghosts to scare off vandals! Sometimes got carried away, accidentally punched a worker in disguise

Enduring Interest

• Despite ruin, it remains a pilgrimage for architects amazed by its fusion of styles

Preservation vs. Decay

• Ongoing efforts to find adaptive uses (e.g., dissertation proposing conversion to a public library), but major restoration/rehabilitation is stymied by vandalism, location risks, and funding challenges (28:45–29:29)

4. The Other Villa de Vecchi: Rhodes, Greece

Historical & Political Background

• Built for Cesare Maria de Vecchi, governor under Mussolini, in the late 1930s
• Symbolized Italian Fascist dominance over the Dodecanese Islands (34:07–37:36)
  • “Aside from being a symbol of Fascist Ideology. The construction of the new villa also obliterated parts of the original structure, erasing its history.” (Holly, 37:36)
• Not actually used by Mussolini; designed to dwarf and overwrite local Greek heritage

Postwar Fate

• Abandoned after WWII, vandalized/graffitied, but draws tourists (39:18)
• Greek government tried to lease/sell it as part of debt strategy; controversy over "selling history" (39:18–40:10)
• No reputation for being haunted—“just haunted by the ghost, the specter of fascism.” (Holly, 40:10)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the value of skepticism:
  “This episode is definitely going to make our skeptics happy.” (Holly, 03:05)

• On the mansion's surreal design:
  “It almost blends into that setting. Despite being obviously a fancy home.” (Holly, 09:28)

• On the haunting myth:
  “The main story that's used as the groundwork for haunting claims at Villa de Vecchi is not really true at all.” (Holly, 17:51)

• On Crowley and reputation:
  “Once Crowley became associated with the villa, the rumors about this property exploded.” (Holly, 20:36)

• On the reality of haunting:
  “The reality is there are no ghosts. The ghost was me. Villa de Vecchi was our life, our family.” (Giuseppe Negri, 26:32)

• On vandalism:
  “Literally if you look at pictures, every interior wall and many of the exterior surfaces have been spray painted or just willfully damaged.” (Holly, 24:13)

• On fascist architecture’s lasting mark:
  "...it was seen as both cultural appropriation and erasure simultaneously. And this controversy was going on as this was being built.” (Holly, 37:36)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction, motivation for the episode (02:24–03:05)
• Felice de Vecchi: background and travels (04:26–07:12)
• Architectural details and construction (08:32–11:38)
• The origin and structure of ghostly myths (16:31–18:04)
• Rise of occult reputation & Crowley’s visit (19:52–21:39)
• Abandonment, vandalism, & attempts at sale (21:39–23:06)
• Persistent local ghost stories (24:13–24:53)
• De Vecchi diary discovery & exhibit (25:11–26:32)
• Firsthand account: Giuseppe Negri (26:32–27:59)
• Adaptive reuse and architectural pilgrimage (28:45–29:29)
• The second Villa de Vecchi: Rhodes & fascism (34:07–40:10)

Tone & Style

• Holly and Tracy maintain a skeptical, research-driven but playful tone (“This episode is definitely going to make our skeptics happy”), mixing legend and debunking with dry humor.
• They are transparent about sources, especially when using less-than-ideal ones (Italian Wikipedia), and candidly share the joys and follies of archival work.
• The episode is rich in historical context and cultural commentary, with asides on architecture, identity, and the strange persistence of ghost stories.

Conclusion

Villa de Vecchi stands as much a monument to embellished legend as to its faded physical grandeur.
Modern tales of murder and haunting are products of repetition and local creativity, not substantively documented history. Far from being a house of horrors, the villa reveals more about cultural memory and our desires for mystery than about any supernatural occurrence.
The fate of both Villa de Vecchis—one a Gothic folly, the other a fascist imposition—mirrors broader European stories of decay, vandalism, and the indomitable allure of abandoned places.

For more:
Listener mail, pet stories, and sign-offs follow at [40:45] onward.

Memorable Moment

Giuseppe Negri's charming debunking of the ghost legend:
"The reality is there are no ghosts. The ghost was me ... We decided to dress up like ghosts with bed sheets in order to scare them off … boots were pretty common back then, so you could hear the sound of me beating them. Tack, tack. It was a blast." (26:32)