Selects: Birthmarks: Probably Not the Mark of the Devil

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stuff You Should Know

Episode: Selects: Birthmarks: Probably Not the Mark of the Devil
Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Date: June 20, 2026
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This entertaining and informative episode explores birthmarks: what they are, how they form, the different kinds, social perceptions, and superstitions through history. Josh and Chuck weave personal anecdotes, medical facts, and cultural trivia into a discussion that busts myths (no, birthmarks aren’t marks of the devil!) and offers compassion for people with visible differences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Anecdotes & Experiences

• Opening Banter (02:42–05:36):
  • Josh has a birthmark under his right armpit ("looks like Spiro Agnew").
  • Chuck doesn’t have birthmarks but now has skin tags as he ages, discussing the annoyance and the bureaucracy of getting them removed.
• Skin Tags and Warts (05:09–07:16):
  • Chuck explains getting skin tags clipped; Josh recounts childhood experiences with warts and the embarrassment it caused in school.
  • Differentiation between freckles, warts, moles, skin tags, and birthmarks.

2. What Are Birthmarks?

• Definition & Social Stigma (08:00–09:12):
  • Birthmarks have been present “since the dawn of humanity.”
  • Historically, they have been seen as marks of witchcraft or Satan.
  • Even in modern societies, children (and adults) are sometimes ostracized for visible birthmarks.
  • “Not because her kid has a birthmark, but because the rest of the world are schmucks.” – Josh (08:50)

3. Types of Birthmarks

• Main Categories (10:20–11:35):
  • Vascular Birthmarks: Relate to blood vessels, usually reddish; examples include “angel kisses,” “stork bites,” “port wine stains,” and “hemangiomas (strawberry marks).”
  • Pigmented Birthmarks: Relate to clusters of pigment, usually brown, black, blue, or gray; includes “café au lait spots,” “Mongolian spots,” and “moles.”

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A. Vascular Birthmarks

• Macular Stains (Angel Kisses & Stork Bites) (12:01–13:23):
  • Flat, reddish marks caused by enlarged blood vessels; common in infants, usually fade by age 2–3.
• Port Wine Stains (13:24–15:30):
  • More persistent, purplish-red, often on face or neck.
  • Sometimes linked to Sturge-Weber syndrome (a neurological condition).
  • “If you have port wine stain birthmark, it does not mean you have Sturge-Weber, but if you have Sturge-Weber, you have a port wine birthmark.” – Josh (15:09)
• Hemangiomas (Strawberry Marks) (16:02–18:14):
  • Raised, red, seen in infants, develop within weeks to months after birth; most resolve by late childhood, may leave a scar; sometimes extend below the skin or onto organs.
  • Explanation of why some look bluish (not due to deoxygenated blood, but due to light absorption properties of skin and blood).

B. Pigmented Birthmarks

• Café au Lait Spots (28:11–29:22):
  • Light brown, anywhere on the body.
  • Multiple large spots may indicate neurofibromatosis (NF1).
  • “If you have six or more...go see a doctor.” – Josh (29:22)
• Mongolian Spots (29:54–30:34):
  • Bluish-gray, usually on lower back/buttocks, common in children with darker skin; usually fade by age 6–7.
• Moles (Nevi) (30:50–33:44):
  • Three types: congenital (present at birth), acquired (appear later), atypical (irregular, watch for melanoma).
  • “An atypical mole is associated with melanoma, and melanoma is no joke.” – Josh (33:44)
  • Beauty Marks: Any mole in an aesthetically noticeable position (e.g., Marilyn Monroe, Liz Taylor, Cindy Crawford).

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4. Birthmark Treatment & Cosmetic Concerns

• Monitoring & Medical Intervention (38:19–41:06):
  • Most birthmarks are harmless and require no treatment.
  • Some need monitoring for changes, especially if they could affect function (near eyes, ears).
  • Port wine stains can be treated with pulsed dye lasers, best done in childhood—treatment can be painful.
  • Cover-up options: specialized makeup artists, organizations like the British Association of Skin Camouflage, and changingfaces.org for advocacy.
  • Discussion of vitiligo and facial difference acceptance (42:22–43:28).

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5. Superstitions and Cultural Beliefs

• Historical Myths & Superstitions (43:33–48:11):
  • Birthmarks explained in folklore as caused by startled mothers, over-eating certain foods, or spiritual events.
  • “If you have a strawberry mark as a baby, it’s because mom ate too many red things.” – Chuck (44:37)
  • Doctrine of signs: connecting the appearance of the mark to a food or event.
  • “In Japan, if a pregnant woman looked at a fire...they thought that might cause a burn mark on the baby's skin.” – Chuck (45:14)
  • Past lives: stories of children recalling past events supposedly evidenced by their birthmarks (Josh shares a Syrian anecdote, 46:02).
  • Historical requirement of Russian nobility to prove lineage via family birthmark (48:11).

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6. Social Acceptance and Anti-Bullying Message

• Empathy and Respect (48:35–49:17):
  • Strong closing message to parents and kids: don’t tease or ostracize people for differences like birthmarks.
  • “Just don’t be a jerk.” – Josh (49:07)
  • “The golden rule: Think about how you might feel if somebody was making fun of something about your body.” – Chuck (49:09)
  • Discussion on shifting perspective: the problem isn’t the person with the difference, it’s others’ responses.

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7. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Not because her kid has a birthmark, but because the rest of the world are schmucks.” – Josh (08:50)
• “If you have port wine stain birthmark, it does not mean you have Sturge-Weber, but if you have Sturge-Weber, you have a port wine birthmark.” – Josh (15:09)
• “An atypical mole is associated with melanoma, and melanoma is no joke.” – Josh (33:44)
• “We could all do a lot better at accepting people with facial differences.” – Josh (42:45)
• “If you have six or more café au lait birthmarks...go see a doctor.” – Josh (29:22)
• “Just don’t be a jerk.” – Josh (49:07)
• “Think about how you might feel if somebody was making fun of something about your body.” – Chuck (49:09)

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8. Fun Sidebar Conversations

• The etymology of coffee drinks ("café au lait" vs. "latte" vs. "cafe con leche") (24:36–25:52).
• Sushi-making habits and home rice cookers (26:04–28:06).
• A speed-listing of favorite “band names” from past episodes (50:24–53:50).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Personal Anecdotes: 02:42–07:16
• Birthmark Myths & Stigma: 08:00–09:12
• Types of Birthmarks: 10:20–30:50
• Moles & Melanoma: 31:32–34:38
• Treatment: 38:19–43:00
• Superstitions: 43:33–48:11
• Empathy/Social Acceptance: 48:35–49:30
• Listener Mail (Band Names): 49:43–53:50

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Final Thoughts

This episode combines laughter, learning, and empathy. Listeners walk away understanding what birthmarks are, why they’re nothing to fear, and the universal value of kindness. Josh and Chuck’s relaxed, humorous style—complete with coffee and sushi tangents—keeps even the heaviest topics approachable.

Recommended for:
Anyone who has a birthmark, knows someone with one, or wants to understand bodily differences with a dose of nerdy humor and bigheartedness.

Transcript

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[Josh Clark]

Goodbye.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey, everybody. Chuck here. We're moving forward in time in 2020 for this select the year of COVID with our February 20th episode, Birthmarks Colon. Probably not the mark of the devil. I honestly don't remember much about this one, but when I was looking through our 2020 list, it made me want to go listen to it. And so that's what I'm gonna do. And I think you should, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartradio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant over there. And there's Jerry. Jerry's back, everybody.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

And all the listeners said, what happened

[Chuck Bryant]

to Josh T. What are we doing? Did we decide?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, we're Gonna do birthmarks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay, great.

[Josh Clark]

Check the title, Chuck.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I mean, I have two things in front of me.

[Josh Clark]

How you doing?

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm great. How are you?

[Josh Clark]

I'm good.

[Chuck Bryant]

You got any birthmarks?

[Josh Clark]

I do.

[Chuck Bryant]

What you got?

[Josh Clark]

I've got something under my right armpit.

[Chuck Bryant]

You're like, it looks like Richard Nixon.

[Josh Clark]

Close. It looks like Spiro Agnew. Do you remember when Mad magazine used to make fun of Spiro Agnew? And you're like, I have no idea who that is.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think it was the name, maybe.

[Josh Clark]

No, it was because, like, they hated his politics.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, well, that too.

[Josh Clark]

But then there was a Simpsons where Milhouse is like, they're making fun of Spiro Agnew again. He must work there or something. And I remember specifically thinking that he was.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, he referenced Mad magazine. Oh, that's funny.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So you've got a. Under your armpit birthmark.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. How about you?

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't think I do, actually. What I have a lot of now, because I'm an old man speeding toward death, are skin tags.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Those are not birth marks around the neck and armpit. That's where they, like, tend to gather.

[Josh Clark]

That's just your skin, you know, really going at it.

[Chuck Bryant]

I used to have them clipped and I did that for a while, but it's been a while, but now. I went in recently, it was so annoying. It was one of these. Our medical system is just broken. It was one of those reminders because I went in to get it taken care of like I usually do. And I got in and the guy was like, oh, well, we don't do this now unless you make another kind of appointment. I was like, well, can I just make this that since I'm here sitting in your office. He's like, no, no, no, those take much longer. These are just 10 minute appointments and that'll take like an hour. And some of them have their own vascular system, so they need to be cauterized. And I was like, oh, okay, so I'm just leaving. And he was like, yes. He's like, if you want to make that other appointment. And then they refunded the money for that appointment, which was nice.

[Josh Clark]

That was nice.

[Chuck Bryant]

The co pay. But then said, make the longer appointment if you want to come back.

[Josh Clark]

Huh? Are you going to?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. You know, I mean, they're not like medically dependent, dangerous or anything, but they're rather unsightly. It's fine when they get long and big.

[Josh Clark]

Well, long, sure. I mean, how long are we talking,

[Chuck Bryant]

like, I mean, some of the ones are like, you know, quarter inch, so.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I was just about to say how big that was. Let me see if we can figure it out in metric. It's a few centimeters, I think is what you just did. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I want to get them clipped again, so I'm going to make that longer appointment. I think it will be painful.

[Josh Clark]

Is it painful? I've never had one clipped.

[Chuck Bryant]

The regular clipping. The small ones aren't a big deal. Cause they just hit it with a little quick shot and then clip it and it's no big deal.

[Josh Clark]

But what kind of a shot?

[Chuck Bryant]

Like a, you know, a needle. Like a little numbing, numbing thing.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I gotcha.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like with a needle, like lidocaine, whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know.

[Chuck Bryant]

They don't spray it with the freezy stuff.

[Josh Clark]

No, you're thinking of this stuff for athlete's foot. This is like a shot lidocaine.

[Chuck Bryant]

But anyway, the ones that are big, that require cauterizing, I'm sure that doesn't feel great. Even if they've numbed it up.

[Josh Clark]

You just get the acetylene torch out

[Chuck Bryant]

and imagine I'll have to shave my armpits. Because if you're torching something near armpit hair.

[Josh Clark]

Plus, you just want to look good.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe I've never shaved. My pits might start that I use.

[Josh Clark]

Why not? I'll bet that's itchy, though.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, maybe.

[Josh Clark]

Anytime you shave something, it starts to grow out. It's itchy. You know what I'm saying?

[Brian]

So.

[Josh Clark]

So I used to get warts, actually, when I was a kid.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And I remember going into the dermatologist and they'd go into the freezer, put on these huge rubber gloves and pull out like this thermos of. I want to say nitroglycerin, but that's not it.

[Chuck Bryant]

No.

[Josh Clark]

You know what I'm talking about.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the cold stuff.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And it would freeze my wart basically right off, right there. It just kind of sting for a second. And that was it.

[Chuck Bryant]

I never really had warts.

[Josh Clark]

Believe me, buddy, you lucked out. Because if you're a little kid in grade school and you have like. It wasn't. Like I wasn't coated with them, but you know, like, I'd get one like here between my forefinger and my thumb. Or I had one on my elbow or something like that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Just ammo for jerks.

[Josh Clark]

Zero in on that stuff. And you're the. You're the little weird kid who is already the fat kid now with warts. New and improved.

[Chuck Bryant]

I Had freckles a lot more than I do now, because freckles tend to fade as you get older. And freckles are, I guess, a kind of. Well, they're not a kind of birthmark because you're not born with freckles. But I did look into it. Freckles are just an abundance of melanin, like, collected together.

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's basically what a mole is, which is a type of birthmark if you're born with it.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. So, a. I love freckles, though. I think freckles are super cute.

[Josh Clark]

Freckles are great. Moles are great. Birthmarks, especially interesting ones are great.

[Chuck Bryant]

Warts are great. That's why the term warts and all came about.

[Josh Clark]

It's true. Because that's how you should love it is true.

[Chuck Bryant]

Chuck, man, quit making fun of people, kids.

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's the thing.

[Chuck Bryant]

You're so mean.

[Josh Clark]

Birthmarks have been around since the dawn of humanity, I'm guessing, and people have probably been ostracized because of their birthmarks since the dawn of humanity. And for a very long time, people were ostracized for their birthmarks because of some really stupid ideas, like it meant you were a witch.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Or it meant you were touched by Satan, all sorts of stuff like that. And then over time, it got a little more innocuous. But even still, today, there are parts of the world where you can find people who are ostracized because they're birthmarks. And then even in the developed world, the Western world, which is rational and based more on science, you can still find yourself, you know, at the receiving end of being ostracized. Maybe not because you're a witch, but just because you have a birthmark or you look different.

[Chuck Bryant]

And so I've seen parents react to it if their baby has, like, a strawberry mark on their head.

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like, I've seen them feel the need to say, like, oh, you know, this. You know, will go away, or something like that.

[Josh Clark]

I was reading this birthmark support group from Great Britain, and they were saying, this one mom had cards printed up explaining what her child's birthmark was, because sometimes she just couldn't. She just didn't have it together enough to have a conversation with a stranger who'd walked up and been like, what's up with your kid's face? And rather than belt them, she would just give him a card and then just probably go home and weep or something like that, knowing not for herself, but the life that her kid was gonna have to face. Not because her kid has a birthmark, but because the rest of the world are schmucks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

That's the long and short of it.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. Children are mean.

[Josh Clark]

I bet a kid managed to find a soapbox even in the birthmarks episode.

[Chuck Bryant]

I bet a kid, probably a collection of kids, could still make you cry. If they start.

[Josh Clark]

If they started, I just start kicking, throwing elbows. I just hold my arms out and start twirling around really fast. And whatever got hit, got hit.

[Chuck Bryant]

People would be like, is Josh fighting a bunch of children? And be like, yeah, they made fun of them.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. He'd be like, I shoved one in a grocery store once.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man, I'll never forget that lady.

[Josh Clark]

So let's talk birthmarks, Chuck. It turns out there's a lot to know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. They're usually not a big deal. They aren't painful. They're usually harmless. A lot of times they go away. We're going to detail the ones that do and that don't go away and the ones that are of more concern. But generally speaking, science doesn't really know why they come about to begin with, but they are something that doctors will sometimes want to keep an eye on. And that's the intro.

[Josh Clark]

That's intro number seven.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. There's a couple of big categories, vascular and pigmented. And let's talk about some of these. Vascular are usually reddish because they have to do with blood vessels.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I think reddish is a very common. When you think birthmarks, you think reddish. Typically.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think brownish.

[Josh Clark]

Brownish, too. Apparently. They can come in a whole rainbow of colors. Blue, brown, black, pink, white. Although I take issue with that. Purplish or tan. And I take issue with white because I think white is like a reverse birthmark, although technically it would still count as a birthmark.

[Chuck Bryant]

So the whole rest of your body is a birthmark. And that one little spot is.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, that's right. Birthmarks tend to be an aggregation of either pigment or blood, as we'll see. And white is like an area where pigment is absent. So I guess it still counts as a birthmark, but it's not really a birthmark. If you go into a dermatologist's office, right, they'll be like, he got this all wrong.

[Chuck Bryant]

And like we said, the skin tags and freckles and things like that, they come later in life, although freckles can start out very early. But it's still not a birthmark because you're not born with that mark.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And even as we'll see, some types of moles don't technically qualify as birthmarks even though they typically fall under the banner of birthmarks. You have to be born with something for it to count as a birthmark.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

So that's not even fully true. As we'll see.

[Chuck Bryant]

This is just full of lies.

[Josh Clark]

Everybody who studies birthmarks needs to get their stuff together.

[Chuck Bryant]

So the macular, they're called flat sometimes macular stains.

[Josh Clark]

And we're in the vascular category. Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. This is the non pigmented. These are usually caused by blood. Enlarged blood vessels. These have some cute names that go along with them.

[Josh Clark]

Love them.

[Chuck Bryant]

Angel kisses.

[Josh Clark]

Great.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think some of these can be because of where they're found. Although I've heard people cross referencing. Like I think an angel kiss is usually on the forehead.

[Josh Clark]

Oh really?

[Chuck Bryant]

But not always. A stork bite is usually on the back of the neck.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, that makes sense.

[Chuck Bryant]

But I've also, when you google stork bite, there's some like right on the tip of the nose and people call them that.

[Josh Clark]

I took it to me more like that those names were derived from the age that they like kids who are born with this. And then it tends to go away at an early age. That's what it's associated with. You know, like the stork brings the

[Chuck Bryant]

baby and the angels.

[Josh Clark]

Well everybody, angels love babies.

[Chuck Bryant]

What about the salmon patch?

[Josh Clark]

I don't understand it at all.

[Chuck Bryant]

They are usually above the neck. They usually. Or a lot of times they'll disappear and fade away by the time they're two, three years old. But not always. Sometimes they'll last.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. But for the most part, if you have a macular flat vascular birthmark on your kid, they're probably going to outgrow. It is just really no other way to put it. They outgrow that birthmark eventually.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

Most often port wine stains are whole different ball game.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

They look like kind of what they sound like. They're usually kind of a purplish red where it looks like, well, port or wine has been spilled.

[Chuck Bryant]

I would know nothing about what a wine spill looks like.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. Right. Because you never ever spill all your wine. It all makes it into your mouth.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

I've seen it. So port wine stain. I say that it's like a whole different kettle of fish. It's in the same category as macular because they're vascular. It's like an aggregation of overdeveloped blood vessels kind of close to the skin. But they seem to come from a whole different place. There's a whole different reason. And in fact, we should say this, Chuck, because this is really important. If you go up to a dermatologist or anybody who would know what they're talking about, and you say, hey, where do birthmarks come from? What causes birthmarks? They would say, we actually don't know. The closest that they've come is with port wine stains. From what I can tell, they figured out that there's a gene where this molecular switch that's supposed to go on and off is locked in the on position, that they think that this is what causes port wine stains. And the reason that they found it is because about 6% of kids who are born with the Port Weinstein birthmark develop something called Sturge Weber syndrome, which is a neurological condition.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, interesting.

[Josh Clark]

And it's. If you have a Port Weinstein birthmark, it does not mean you have Sturge Weber, but if you have Sturge Weber, you have a port wine birthmark.

[Chuck Bryant]

Gotcha.

[Josh Clark]

6% of port wine birthmarks cases have Sturge Weber. It's actually a symptom.

[Chuck Bryant]

But 100% of people with that condition have the Port Weinstein.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And so in investigating the syndrome and the link between it and the Port Weinstein birthmark, they found this gene that they think is the culprit.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, well, they never go away. A lot of times they'll get darker as you become older. And these are not a big deal health wise either. Unless it's something near your eyes that can affect your vision, and then they might want to take a look at it.

[Josh Clark]

I also saw that in some cases, they can start to get lumpy and actually become disfiguring as you age too.

[Chuck Bryant]

I did see those images.

[Josh Clark]

Once they lump, they can scar too. So a lot of people seek treatment for port wine stain birthmarks, as we'll see.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Strawberry marks is what I referenced at the beginning. You might see these on little bbs. They are hemangiomas. Is that right? Yeah. And these, most of the times I saw even less than 30%. But it says here 30% are visible at birth. Most of the times, though, they'll develop between four and six weeks. And I think by the time you hit six months, if you're gonna have one, it will be visible by that point.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

You won't develop one of these at, like the one year mark.

[Josh Clark]

No, but again, there's that one. There's that loophole where it's like it still counts as a birthmark even though you weren't technically born with it. Drives me up the wall.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. And these are a little more reddish. And you've probably seen these, like I said, on babies before, because they're, you know, they're pretty common. They will. They have. They're raised off the skin. That's kind of one of the differentiators is they're not flat.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So, like, I've said it like five times in my head. Hemangiomas, 50 times, probably. Yes. And I can't say it out loud. Hemagiomas, macular and port Weinsteins. Like we said, these are all over developed blood vessels. Clusters of blood vessels. They're from blood vessels.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's like the sixth time we said that.

[Josh Clark]

Which is why they have that reddish pigment, is because the blood is close enough to the skin and it's clustered together. It's kind of almost pooled right there, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

But it's not like a bruise or anything like that. The blood hasn't escaped the vessel. There's just a lot of vessels or big vessels all clumped together and near the skin. What's interesting about hemangiomas. I did it, Chuck. Hemangiomas. Nice work. Thanks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hemangiomas.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, man, did I miss it twice.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think there's an N in there that is being forgotten.

[Josh Clark]

What's interesting about what you just mentioned is that in some cases, they can extend down into the body, and the further they extend down, they won't be reddish, they'll be bluish.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And they can even be on the organs. It's pretty rare, but it happens.

[Josh Clark]

It is. And they can be threatening on the organs. You don't want to have a cluster of blood vessels on your organs, but back to the blue part. So the reason that they look blue is because, as everybody knows, blood on its way back to the lungs to be oxygenated is blue.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

That's not true. I'm sorry to set you up like that. I thought it was true up until this morning.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's why your veins are blue.

[Josh Clark]

It's not.

[Chuck Bryant]

And as soon as you get cut and it hits that sweet, sweet oxygen, right, that's just transforms into red.

[Josh Clark]

That's what you thought, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

That's not what I thought as an adult, but that's what I thought as a small child.

[Josh Clark]

That's what I thought until this morning.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, come on, you knew that.

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

Really?

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

You thought blood was blue?

[Josh Clark]

Yes, I thought deoxygenated blood was blue.

[Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Well, do you understand why it appears blue?

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I mean, no, but I just knew that that was like a playground falsehood.

[Josh Clark]

Well, I was too busy because the veins are blue. Thinking about how you were fighting off bullies I was covered with to learn this.

[Chuck Bryant]

You're like, I'm gonna draw some sweet blue blood out of that jerk with my fist.

[Josh Clark]

The reason it's blue is because the deeper it is, the less blue light is able to penetrate, so the less that can be absorbed. And so the light that's reflected tends to be blue more than, say, like red, which penetrates deeper and is absorbed.

[Chuck Bryant]

That has to do with blue foods too, which is a bit. For the next episode.

[Josh Clark]

Thank you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Just put a pin in that.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

These strawberry marks, though. Back to those. They will disappear usually by the time a kid is, like, into double digits. If they're large, sometimes you might see a scar. These are around the head and neck as well and are most commonly found on Caucasian girls.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

But they're not. They don't have a real impact on development either. But if they are really big and puffy again, they get in and around the eyes or ears. They could interfere with hearing and vision, stuff like that.

[Josh Clark]

Right? Yeah. And if they're on your internal organs, it's a problem too. So I think we should take a break because astoundingly, we're 20 minutes in and we have not taken a break.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wow.

[Josh Clark]

So we'll be back to birthmarks right after this.

[Steph]

Hi, I'm Steph and I work at UnitedHealthcare. When I think about UnitedHealthcare's members, I think of my own family. My niece was diagnosed with an ultra rare genetic disorder. I know how hard it is for families at UnitedHealthcare. We can make it easier.

[Brian]

I'm Brian. I care because I know what it's like to not speak the language. It's not easy. Health insurance is complicated. I would say our job is to make everything easy for our UXC members. I work for United Healthcare. I'm committed to care.

[Ad Voice]

They say everything happens for a reason, but I suspect everything happens for a reason. Like this. Commercial break. Did you need 15 seconds away from music or 15 seconds to eat a Reese's? Perhaps it's true. Everything happens for a Reese's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I turned off news altogether.

[Chuck Bryant]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Myles Gray]

It's the rage bait.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Josh Clark]

If we got clear facts, maybe we

[Ad Voice]

could calm down a little bit. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's Move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay, to recap, remember, vascular blood birthmarks are reddish because of blood vessels.

[Josh Clark]

Precisely.

[Chuck Bryant]

If anyone misses that question on the

[Josh Clark]

quiz tomorrow, you're toast.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's not our fault.

[Josh Clark]

So the other kind of birthmarks are pigmented birthmarks, nothing to do with blood vessels? Well, I don't know. There could be a blood vessel or two involved, but. No, not really.

[Chuck Bryant]

No. This is because, like, freckles, like I was talking about, is just a collection of melanin that's brought out by sun exposure.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And you have melanocytes, melanin cells, melatonin cells, or melanin, one of the two, all over your body. It gives you, like, the color to your skin. Some people have more, some people have less, but everybody has them. But like you were saying, when they kind of congregate together, that's when they form these pigmented spots that we know as birthmarks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. We are in our house. My daughter's at the age now where she has started to notice skin color.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Which is something that every parent has to deal with at some point.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

And that's how it was recommended to us to talk about it, with scientifically being like, hey, everyone's the same. Just got different skin tones. Because of science, some people have more melanin than other people.

[Josh Clark]

Is that why you had me over to dinner and started asking me about that? Yeah. You just wound me up and knew I'd go, huh, that's right.

[Chuck Bryant]

So. But, I mean, that is tricky stuff for parents, because what you're really talking about is the first talks of race.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And you just. You have to do it in such a way that diffuses it almost to where it's just like, no, everyone's the same. Some people are lighter skinned, some people are darker skinned.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Both of her best friends, though, are multiracial, which helps.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Because we can say, you know, your friend Blank. Not gonna say names.

[Josh Clark]

Jerry Blank.

[Chuck Bryant]

She has two friends. They're both named Blank. We can just say, you know, her skin is a little darker than yours. Because when you see her parents and try to explain all that, and kids

[Josh Clark]

are like, oh, okay, how does this matter? What does this have to do with Big Bird? Can I please get back to that?

[Chuck Bryant]

Why is Big Bird yellow?

[Josh Clark]

That's a great question.

[Chuck Bryant]

But these have some cute names, too, and they are almost. Well, that's not true. I was gonna say they're named because of what they look like, but really just the One is.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. There's really just two types of pigmented birthmarks or broad categories of it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes. The very Parisian cafe latte.

[Josh Clark]

Cafe au lait.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, cafe au lait. Sorry, I misread that.

[Josh Clark]

It's all right.

[Chuck Bryant]

A latte is different.

[Josh Clark]

This has nothing to do with vascular aggregations of blood vessels.

[Chuck Bryant]

No. And do you get confused on coffee orders or do you know all that stuff?

[Josh Clark]

I'm pretty. Pretty good with it.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know what any of them are. Like, anytime someone.

[Josh Clark]

It's all just differing amounts of milk. Steamed milk.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. But like, when I hear, like, a macchiato or an Americano.

[Josh Clark]

Americano.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't even know what these things are.

[Josh Clark]

A shot of espresso or multiple shots of espresso with ultra hot water.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

That's an Americano.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think that's what our friend Chad Crowley drinks.

[Josh Clark]

It's just a really, really, really hot black coffee.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

That's all.

[Chuck Bryant]

Interesting.

[Josh Clark]

Macchiato. You got me.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Josh Clark]

Like, cappuccino. There's a lot. There's like, more foam than milk. Latte's more milk than foam.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, Yeah, I know those two.

[Josh Clark]

It's all just milk or foam or coffee.

[Chuck Bryant]

What's a cafe au lait?

[Josh Clark]

Cafe au lait is simply coffee with milk. That's it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Really?

[Josh Clark]

That's what. That's literally what it means in French.

[Chuck Bryant]

Is that like the. What's it called in Spanish?

[Josh Clark]

Cafe con leche.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay, that's the same thing then.

[Josh Clark]

Coffee with milk.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay, I am a dummy. I haven't been drinking coffee.

[Josh Clark]

It's not that. It's just. It's not that.

[Chuck Bryant]

As you can see, I'm still drinking my cafe latte from this morning.

[Josh Clark]

Those are great, aren't they?

[Chuck Bryant]

And it's still hot thanks to. And I'll go ahead and plug it. The zojirushi. And I've plugged this on our page before. Like, if you like your coffee hot all day, get one of these little thermoses. This thing keeps this thing hot for 10 hours.

[Josh Clark]

It really does.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So much so I have the same one. Yumi has a little pink one. It's cute. When I pour coffee in, I have to, like, pour the coffee into a mug to let it cool off. I have to put it in there.

[Chuck Bryant]

Because you won't be able to drink it.

[Josh Clark]

No. Like, maybe the next day you could. It keeps it that hot? For sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

We need to get them as a sponsor, man.

[Josh Clark]

They also make out of this World rice cookers, too.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I've got. Well, now, I'm not sure if that's the one I have or another one.

[Josh Clark]

Tiger. Those are the two best ones, in my opinion.

[Chuck Bryant]

I can't remember. I'll have to look. But all I know is the one I have is very forgiving. You can be pretty off with your measurements, and it still makes perfect rice.

[Josh Clark]

You can use, like, buttermilk, and somehow it still comes out just great.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man. Buttermilk rice.

[Josh Clark]

Buttermilk rice. That could be. All right, well, here's a little tip for you. You make sushi rice.

[Steph]

Mm.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Usually you just do a one to one rice to water ratio.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Then go in and just put like, half. Like a teaspoon. Half teaspoon even, depending on how tiny you want to be of rice vinegar.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, well, sure. I usually add that after.

[Josh Clark]

No, no. You want to put it in.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So you want to cook it with it.

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. I used to make my own sushi rolls, and then I just got to the point where I was like, it's

[Josh Clark]

not worth it, and it's just a

[Chuck Bryant]

lot easier to get sushi.

[Josh Clark]

Where did you get your seafood or your sashimi? Sorry.

[Chuck Bryant]

I would get that at the Dekalb farmer's market. I would get the tuna there and the crab sticks, which. That's easy. You can get that at Kroger's and the seaweed there. But then there's also a Japanese market nearby where I would get the eel to bake in the oven.

[Josh Clark]

Nice.

[Chuck Bryant]

But that's kind of. As you know, you could do spicy tuna. Tuna, eel, and crabstick. California rolls.

[Josh Clark]

I really want some sushi right now.

[Chuck Bryant]

We both eat a lot of sushi. Yeah, it's good.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. So cafe au lait birthmarks.

[Chuck Bryant]

So that is the cafe au lait. They are the color of a cafe au lait, kind of a light brown,

[Josh Clark]

which means coffee with milk.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yep. And this is, to me, was when I think birthmark, I think of these because it's just a little brown spot anywhere on the body.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And I think one of the things we didn't say is with some of the birthmarks, there is kind of specific places that they'll appear.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Or they're tied to specific places usually. But with cafe au lait birthmarks in particular, they're just. They got no rules.

[Chuck Bryant]

Forehead, butt cheek, wherever, wherever.

[Josh Clark]

And they apparently don't. There's nothing. There's no problem with them. But very much like the port wine stain birthmark, the cafe au lait spots are tied to a neurological Actually a nerve condition where if you have six or more of these kinds of cafe au lait birthmarks, especially if they're larger than, like, a dime in an older kid. You want to go to see a doctor.

[Ad Voice 2]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Because that could mean that you have something called neurofibromatosis. I said that a million times in my head, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

You got to start saying things out loud.

[Josh Clark]

Also known as NF1.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. It's easier.

[Josh Clark]

But NF1 is not even necessarily. It could be asymptomatic. Like, if you're like, oh, my gosh, I've got six or more cafe au a birthmarks on me. Maybe I have neurofibromatosis. It's not like a death sentence or anything like that. It's just, go see a doctor.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. The Mongolian spots are. These look like bruises to me. If you don't know what you're looking at, it can be alarming because you see these pictures of babies that look like they're heavily bruised kind of at the lower back, upper buttocks area.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

But it is not bruising. They're bluish gray, though. And like I said, usually on the lower back. I think African Americans, African, Asian, and Hispanic kids, usually with darker skin, have more of them or more commonly have them. And these are the ones that fade out by the time they're like six or seven, usually.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And they're usually a bluish green because they're clusters of pigment cells together deep under the skin.

[Myles Gray]

And.

[Josh Clark]

And so you've got that same thing going on like you have with the hemangiomas.

[Chuck Bryant]

Nice.

[Josh Clark]

I got it. This one. You got it?

[Chuck Bryant]

There's a good old fashioned mole. This is a pigmented birthmark. Multiple of them are nevi brown, Nevi N E V I. Because a Nevis is a single mole.

[Josh Clark]

Are any of these, like, band names?

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't think so, but very fortuitous mentioning of that because of listener mail later.

[Josh Clark]

All right.

[Chuck Bryant]

It is Latin for spot. And there are three categories.

[Josh Clark]

Mole is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, nevi.

[Josh Clark]

I think mole is Latin for spot.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, is it? Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

I was just about to make fun of you too. I'm glad I didn't.

[Josh Clark]

I'm glad you didn't.

[Ad Voice 2]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Mole sounds real Latin. Wart boy.

[Josh Clark]

Aw.

[Chuck Bryant]

So there are three categories of moles. Congenital, acquired, and atypical. The congenital. About 1% of babies are born with these. And these are kind of all over the map as far as color and size. Some of them are hairy, some of them are not hairy.

[Josh Clark]

I saw that basically every congenital mole has a little hair, a hair of some sort. It can be very, very fine. It can be thick, it can be coarse. It can be very dark. Usually they're very dark because they're growing out of pigment cells that are, like, pigment away.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

And I learned that on the Dollar shave club blog. Oh, and they say also to just kind of pluck, because shaving, if you're a man, like, say you have one on your face or whatever, it can nick very frequently.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Well, I've got some of the skin tags that obviously, I don't shave, so it's not a problem now, but.

[Josh Clark]

Well, maybe that's why you have skin tags. If you shave, you just shave them off all the time, Trim them down.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't think that's why.

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

Now, the skin tags come from, like, clothing rubbing against the skin. That's why they're around the neckline a lot of times or sometimes around the waistline. So, you know. But again, those aren't birthmarks.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Those are old man marks. I got you acquired moles. They come around later in life as well. And this is not the same as a skin tag. Still. It is still a mole. And a lot of doctors think that this is from sun damage.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. But not necessarily cancerous.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Which leads us into the third type of mole, atypical moles. These aren't necessarily cancerous either, but they're the kind you definitely want to keep an eye on. They'll be multiple colors or have some sort of color gradient in them. Their shape will be just kind of amorphous.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Irregular.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, they'll be just kind of. You'll be like. That don't look quite right. That's that kind of mole. And those are the kind that you definitely want to have a doctor check out, because a lot of people don't know this, but an atypical mole is associated with melanoma, and melanoma is no joke.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I think a lot of people are like, melanoma is nothing. Just go get it removed at the doctor. No. Melanoma can spread like lightning through your body, and it can be a real problem. It's a very serious thing to keep up with.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I've got a pretty sad situation with a family member with melanoma that the treatment is going really well, but it has definitely opened my eyes to the fact that it's no joke.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I had no idea Yumi opened my eyes. She had somebody that she lost to melanoma.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, man. It Happens.

[Josh Clark]

She thought the same thing. Like, oh, melanoma. No, that's not at all how it is. Which is really weird because somebody's dropping the ball. Because most people just think it's nothing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. On messaging.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I agree with myself.

[Chuck Bryant]

Apparently it's interesting that different kinds of cancer have better or worse pr.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Great product, terrible marketing. Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

It's kind of what we're dealing with here.

[Chuck Bryant]

But I know that prostate cancer has often lagged behind breast cancer. Like breast cancer does a bang up job of marketing and press and PR and awareness. So these, like you said, the doctors will want to monitor these over time. What I couldn't figure out was what is the quote, unquote, beauty mark? Is that an acquired mole?

[Josh Clark]

I think a beauty mark is any kind of mole.

[Chuck Bryant]

This just happens to be the perfect place.

[Josh Clark]

I'm living with this and I'm loving every minute of it.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's so interesting how that has become a thing.

[Josh Clark]

I was trying to figure out where it went back to. Obviously, Marilyn Monroe really kind of popularized that, Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

She had one, didn't she?

[Josh Clark]

I think it predated her. Like, Liz Taylor is at least contemporary, if not predated.

[Chuck Bryant]

Does she have one?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, she's very famous for one. And then like, even still today. Cindy Crawford, ScarJo. Who else? Oh, Natalie Portman apparently has them, like on her face.

[Chuck Bryant]

Interesting.

[Josh Clark]

I went over this list of celebrities. I was like, celebrity birthmarks. The only one that comes up though is moles and Spear Wagnew. I couldn't find any, like, well known celebrities with birthmarks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Like birthmarks, birthmarks, like facial birthmarks? Yeah, I couldn't think of one either. Find any.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, that's probably because of the prejudice against them.

[Josh Clark]

I would guess so. Yeah. Which is sad.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

It reminded me, though, Chuck, didn't one of the Fat Albert gang have a birthmark on his face?

[Chuck Bryant]

Um, I don't know. Was he the guy that had the. Pulled his toboggan cap over his face?

[Josh Clark]

No, I think that was Mushmouth.

[Chuck Bryant]

Cause you never see his face at all.

[Josh Clark]

Well, then how would you know if he had a birthmark?

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know. I just thought that might have been like a backstory or something.

[Josh Clark]

I think this just went off the rails enough for a message break, don't you?

[Chuck Bryant]

Sure.

[Ad Voice 2]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

We'll be back right after this and we'll talk about treatment and what I think is a pretty interesting thing, superstitions throughout history about birthmarks.

[Steph]

Hi, I'm Steph and I work at UnitedHealthcare when I think about UnitedHealthcare's members, I think of my own family. My niece was diagnosed with an ultra rare genetic disorder. I know how hard it is for families at UnitedHealthcare. We can make it easier.

[Brian]

I'm Brian. I care because I know what it's like to not speak the language. It's not easy. Health insurance is complicated. I would say our job is to make everything easy for our uhc. I work for United Healthcare. I'm committed to care.

[Ad Voice]

It's said everything happens for a reason. But maybe everything happens for a Reese's Take. Noise canceling headphones. Do they block hearing to heighten taste? That sound seems to show everything happens for a Reese's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I turned off news altogether.

[Chuck Bryant]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Myles Gray]

It's the rage bait.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Chuck Bryant]

We got clear facts.

[Josh Clark]

Maybe we could calm down a little.

[Ad Voice]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so like we said about most of these birthmarks, usually medical treatment is not necessary, but some are monitored over time. And what doctors will do, obviously is examine them, take some pictures and then just sort of follow that over time, that same routine to see if they're changing and to see if they're getting bigger or changing shape or anything unusual.

[Josh Clark]

That's a wait and see.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes, exactly.

[Josh Clark]

If you have hemangiomas they will frequently use, like a port wine stain is something that a lot of people go seek treatment for because it's often on the face, the neck, the head, and it actually responds pretty well to a laser treatment, something called a pulsed dye laser.

[Chuck Bryant]

Is this like the same tattoo treatment or no?

[Josh Clark]

Probably.

[Chuck Bryant]

Because that's pretty painful, right?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like I can't imagine because it says children a lot of times can be treated with this laser treatment.

[Josh Clark]

But man, I know it's sad. It feels a lot like having like hot bacon grease splashing on your skin. That's what if getting a laser or tattoo remove with a laser, but without

[Chuck Bryant]

the knowledge that like in a couple of minutes I'm going to be eating some sweet bacon.

[Josh Clark]

More like the only silver lining to it is that a pig didn't die for you to be in that situation. You know what I mean?

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. Or I won't have whatever tattoo I obviously don't want on my body anymore. That's the reward there.

[Josh Clark]

Right? So if that is the case, then if it is the same feeling as that, then. Yeah, I feel bad for little kids who get that. But that's the best time to start this treatment is when the child is young. Because, again, what you're doing is you're using a pulse dye laser, which uses a certain frequency or spectrum wavelength of light that is targeted so that that birthmark will absorb that light. The surrounding skin is a different pigment, so it won't absorb that light like the birthmark will. And that energy, that light energy, is translated into heat energy in the birthmark, and there go the cells or the blood vessels that make up the cells. And after enough treatments, you've hopefully broken up the hemangioma or the port wine stain and the birthmark will go away.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did you hear that?

[Josh Clark]

Did you hear that?

[Chuck Bryant]

That was me.

[Josh Clark]

I think the. No, it was me.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, that was mine.

[Josh Clark]

Well, then we just had a simultaneous stomach growl, because my stomach just growled at the same time.

[Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Josh Clark]

Are we like, yeah, we're starting to sick after 12 years of podcasting together.

[Chuck Bryant]

So if you are getting something removed, it's usually a vascular birthmark. Generally, they don't try and get rid of pigmented birthmarks, although it's possible, I think. But usually doctors don't treat that.

[Josh Clark]

No, but if you have a child with, say, a cafe au lait birthmark on their face, the doctor's not going to be like, no, we're not doing that. They'll probably try to work it out, but the results are not nearly as reliable as with vascular birthmarks, which have to do with blood vessels beneath the skin clustered together, overdeveloped, that kind of thing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or what your doctor might say is, you know what, this thing's on your forehead. Grow your bangs out until you get old enough to where you accept this as, like an individual trait that you're proud of.

[Josh Clark]

There's something called the British association of Skin Camouflage that is dedicated to helping people, actually training makeup artists on how to cover birthmarks, because for some people, they'll just never get used to it. They don't want to have to get used to it. They just rather cover it up. And it's their right. That's their prerogative. It's their birthmark. They can do whatever they want with it. And so the average makeup artist doesn't know how to do that. It actually takes special skills, apparently. And so there's groups who train people to do that. Yeah, we should do.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know if it's a short stuff or full length, but we should do something on Vitiligo.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I had a friend in LA who, who had Vitiligo. And again, like, same with some of this stuff. It's such a forward facing thing if it's on your face and it's a big deal to people. It's an important, it's an important issue because like the bullying like we were talking about or just kids and adults remaining self conscious about that kind of thing.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's sad.

[Josh Clark]

It is sad. Agreed. I think we could all do a lot better at accepting people with facial differences is what it's called.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. There's something on facial differences.

[Josh Clark]

I don't remember what it was, but I know I've mentioned this group before. Changingfaces.org yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's awesome.

[Josh Clark]

They're just their, their whole thing is like, hey, actually it's funny, they are, they promote skin camouflage if you want it. But they're also, their big push is like, hey, rest of society. Like there's nothing different about these people except for their face. Like they're not cognitively challenged, they're not, they're not disabled in any way or differently abled. Like their face is different for any number of reasons. And it's really kind of on the rest of you to get over it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

You know, which I think is the, the healthiest approach if you ask me.

[Chuck Bryant]

So the superstitions we were talking about, I know we mentioned a couple early on, like that you were touched by the devil. Like that was real stuff in some cultures. In China there were some quirky ones. Like if you have a right foot, birthmark means you're adventurous. If it's on the left foot, that means you're really smart. If it's on your tum tums, that means you're greedy. And this is just sort of, you know, culture and folklore.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. The world around. So because we can't explain what birthmarks or where they come from, all over the world, people, societies have said it's something the mom did while she was pregnant.

[Chuck Bryant]

Of course.

[Josh Clark]

And so we came up with all sorts of different ideas for exactly what the mom did wrong. To explain birthmarks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

One of my favorites is that the mom was startled and touched her face.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh. So the baby.

[Josh Clark]

And at the exact same moment the baby's blood vessels at that point in the baby's face formed a birthmark.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's very scientific.

[Josh Clark]

It is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or how about this? If you have a strawberry mark as a baby, it's because mom ate too many red things.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

They can't lay off the Strawberries or port wine stain. They couldn't lay off the wine.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or coffee.

[Josh Clark]

Cafe au lait. Coffee.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's so on the nose. Like, come on, people.

[Josh Clark]

It is. There's this thing called the doctrine of signs where, like, if a food looked like a body part, it was associated with helping to heal that body part. Like beets are good for the blood or something like that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or avocados are good for the testicles.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly. I was hoping you would bring that up.

[Chuck Bryant]

Let me see, what else. In Japan, if a pregnant woman looked at a fire or into a flame of some kind, they thought that might cause a burn mark on the baby's skin.

[Josh Clark]

Yep.

[Chuck Bryant]

And I think some of these carry forward a little bit even today.

[Josh Clark]

Well, the X ray one is obviously fairly modern.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, sure.

[Josh Clark]

Like, the explanation is that the mom got an X ray while she was pregnant and it. It basically left a mark on the baby.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

That is not true.

[Chuck Bryant]

That is not true.

[Josh Clark]

No. The one that really has always stuck out to me and it reminded me of this case I want to tell you about is this idea that a birthmark is actually a mark left over from a past life.

[Chuck Bryant]

This is pretty neat. Like, if you have a birthmark that looks like a bullet hole in your back, that means you were shot in the back in a past life and

[Josh Clark]

not just like, that's what that means. Like, there are. There are. I really hesitate to use this word. There are documented cases of this. Of this happening. Supposedly there is this kid in Syria who was born with, like a kind of like a slash, like, birthmark, I think, on the back of his head. And apparently from a very early age, when the kid, like, was able to start to talk, started recounting being murdered with an axe.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, interesting.

[Josh Clark]

And then started talking about the village where he used to live and what his name was, and then the guy that killed him. And it was enough allegedly that the village elders where this kid lived were like, we need to go check this out. So they traveled to that other village and they said, does so and so live here? And they're like, yeah, he lives over there. And it's like, well, did somebody else named this live here once? They're like, yes, he died. He vanished mysteriously. And they went and talked to the accuser, and he broke down with and confessed and showed him where they buried the body that this kid supposedly was in the past life who was murdered by an ex. There's just no way that that happened. But I love reading about stuff like that. The part of me that's like, that's subscribed to that time Life books of, like, paranormal phenomena still loves stories like that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I think you lost me when you said village elders.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Cause, you know, they're the same ones that are like. Well, you're a witch too, because of that, right? Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

See if she floats.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So what else you got? Any others?

[Chuck Bryant]

Let me see here. Well, we talked about the devil's mark. Supposedly, Anne Boleyn was accused of witchcraftery.

[Josh Clark]

Supposedly. I saw also that she most decidedly was not.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, really?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I think that's the legend.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right. Possession by the devil. That could be another one.

[Josh Clark]

And one thing that we did know was that definitely did happen historically, from the 17th to the 19th centuries. If you were Russian nobility, you proved it by displaying your birthmark.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

What was the family? The Romanovs.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Pretty interesting. Which actually holds water because they think that some birthmarks may be congenital. It's entirely possible that a family line, especially one that kind of kept to themselves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what I mean?

[Chuck Bryant]

I know what you mean.

[Josh Clark]

Could conceivably pass down something like a birthmark.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And so unless you. Do you have anything else?

[Josh Clark]

No, I don't. Chuck, take it away.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think we just should close by, really, like stressing to any kids listening and parents of children that vascular birthmarks

[Josh Clark]

have to do with blood vessels under the skin.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, just explain to your kids if there's another kid in their class that has, you know, a pretty obvious birthmark, that they're just the same. And don't. Don't tease kids for that stuff. If you're a kid that's young and listening. We all look different. We all have different skin tones.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Just don't be a jerk.

[Josh Clark]

No, I think that's really great advice.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I think the golden rule. Think about how you might feel if somebody was making fun of something about your body.

[Josh Clark]

That's a good one, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

If you want to know more about parenting, well, you could just listen to all of our other episodes. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

This is from Ryan and Lucy, the aforementioned band name ref. They have been to our shows at the Bellhouse a couple of times. A few times. And let me see, where are they from here? Road trips between New York and Providence.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

And then they've seen us at the bell house, and they said, we realize how much we get a kick out of the various band names. And we started to inventory them a few years ago. Since our wedding is next week. We realize that now is the perfect time to just go ahead and send you the list. I'm not sure why that has anything to do with anything but Ryan and Lucy. Congratulations.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

For what it's worth, Ryan's favorite is Worm Burden.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

From the hookworm. And Lucy's Mouthparts. Yeah, that's from a lot of episodes. But we'll just buzz through these really quickly, just for nostalgia sake and aspiring bands. Jump in and take these and give

[Josh Clark]

us some money for them.

[Chuck Bryant]

There's some real gold in here.

[Josh Clark]

Are we doing all those?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, my God.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's all right. I'll go through them quickly. A fistful of neurons. Warm burden. Tub of Pulp. I know you want to comment on everyone, don't you? Just throw in what you think is really good.

[Josh Clark]

I'm just gonna sit here like this.

[Chuck Bryant]

Threat Simulation Theory. Poor Fred Noonan. I remember that one.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sweet. Give me the teat. I don't remember that one. It was from Uncanny Valley, but I don't remember saying that was a band.

[Josh Clark]

No. Or even how it would relate to it.

[Chuck Bryant]

This is from Movie Crush. Sick Vandalism. That's a good one. Flesh on the Chunks. Hot Plastic Injection. Pyrocastic Flow.

[Josh Clark]

That's a good.

[Chuck Bryant]

Flaming Death Bolts. Pintos.

[Josh Clark]

That is a legendary one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Conceptual Walls. Framingham Cohort. Offspring Cohort. Omni Cohort. Third Generation cohort. Offspring. Spousal Cohort. I don't remember any of those.

[Josh Clark]

All those were from that heart study.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay. Oh, that's right. Cortical Homunculus. That's pretty good. Medieval synthesis. Magic Bullet. I want to retract this next one because apparently I said Herbal Douches was a good band name. I take that back.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's terrible. Slaughtered Narwhal.

[Ad Voice]

Peck.

[Chuck Bryant]

Lube. Great Sex Linked Recessive Manhole Incidents. That's a good one. Graphic Spew. Gross. Nuclear Bulge. Love it.

[Josh Clark]

That is a good one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Local Group. That's kind of dumb.

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. I could see that. Kind of like Scrantonicity.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, sure, yeah. The Electric Death Commission. I love that one. Dr. Foss. Bomb drop.

[Josh Clark]

What was that one?

[Chuck Bryant]

Michael Dillon.

[Josh Clark]

Huh.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't remember exactly what that referenced. Death Master File. Mouth Fart. Of course. The classic frozen poop Knife. Sloth moths. Radioactive cats. That one's dumb. Static Crush. I like that one. Damage Knight. Not bad. The Descriptivists, eh? That's a little haughty, I think.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. But I could be kind of like Mumford and Sonsy. Kind of music, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, exactly.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Oh. Oh, gotcha.

[Chuck Bryant]

It sounds too much like Decemberists, I think, whom I love.

[Josh Clark]

That is exactly right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Bathtub Gin Wasted on Excitement. That's an album title, he says, but that's pretty good as a band.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Mother Culture. Jungle X Ray. Very recent. Wet Record, the album from Jungle X Ray.

[Josh Clark]

Right, right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Two Whale Bolt from Corduroy and then Going Postal, which he says is. A lot of bands are called that.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I think you looked that up even, didn't you?

[Chuck Bryant]

I think so. Those are good.

[Josh Clark]

We always, always, anytime we talk about great band names from episodes have to give a shout out. Especially when Frozen Poop Knife comes up to Diarrhea Planet.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, he had that on the list. I think he didn't quite understand that that is a real band.

[Josh Clark]

That is a real band that predates Frozen Poop Knife.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know. I'd like to think that they've been tweeted at. Over the years.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, they've tweeted to us.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, that's right, they have. Right?

[Josh Clark]

They said. They said, hey, sorry, we're gonna stick with our.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, that's right.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks for thinking of us. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

In other words, shut up.

[Josh Clark]

Maybe. I don't know. I think it depends on how you look at the world. Yeah. Okay, so I think that's it, everybody. I don't remember what's going on anymore, but this is the end of the episode. So if you want to get in touch with us, you can go on to stuffyou should know.com if you want. And you can also send us an email to stuffpodcastheartradio.com

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit

[Steph]

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

[Chuck Bryant]

you listen to your favorite show.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Josh Clark]

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