Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work

Summary

Summary of "Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work" – Stuff You Should Know

Release Date: December 10, 2024
Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant
Produced by iHeartPodcasts

In the episode titled "Ba-Gawk! How Peacocks Work," hosts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve deep into the fascinating world of peafowl, exploring their biology, behavior, cultural significance, and conservation status. This comprehensive discussion provides listeners with a thorough understanding of these majestic birds beyond their renowned beauty.

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1. Introduction to Peafowl

Josh and Chuck kick off the episode by addressing the common perceptions of peacocks—primarily their stunning feather trains—and set the stage for a more in-depth exploration.

Notable Quote:

Josh Clark ([01:30]): "So I think it's high time that we talk about what everybody thinks of when they think of peacocks, which is that amazing train of feathers spread out in a fan behind them."

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2. Etymology and Terminology

The hosts trace the origin of the word "peacock," highlighting its linguistic evolution and clarifying important terminology.

• Etymology: Derived from the Latin word pavo, the Old English pronunciation was PA wa p a w a, which over centuries morphed into "peacock" by the 1300s.
• Distinct Terms:
  • Peacock: Specifically refers to the male of the species.
  • Peahen: Denotes the female.
  • Peafowl: Collective term for the species.
  • Pea chicks: The offspring.

Notable Quote:

Josh Clark ([03:05]): "A peacock is specifically the male of the species, and peahen is female."

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3. Species of Peafowl

Josh and Chuck identify and describe the three main species of peafowl:

1. Indian or Blue Peafowl (Pavo cristatus):

   • Native Range: India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka.
   • Habitat: Prefer open fields and tree-lined streets, facilitating their presence in parks and neighborhoods in the United States.
   • Flight Ability: Limited; can fly to heights like the roofs of two-story buildings when startled.

2. Green or Javanese Peafowl (Pavo muticus):

   • Native Range: Java, Southeast Asia, Myanmar.
   • Habitat: Favor dense forests.
   • Conservation Status: Endangered due to habitat loss and hunting.

3. Congo Peafowl (Afropavo congensis):

   • Native Range: Congo Basin, Africa.
   • Habitat: Primarily forested areas.
   • Conservation Status: Vulnerable, facing threats from habitat destruction and hunting.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([04:00]): "There are three main species speaking of laying this out of the peafowl, and you have the most common that if you live in the United States and you've seen one maybe in a zoo, maybe in a park, or maybe just strutting around your neighborhood."

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4. Physical Characteristics

The hosts elaborate on the impressive physical traits of peafowl:

• Size:
  • Blue Peafowl: Males can weigh up to 13 pounds, making them the largest in the pheasant family.
• Feather Train:
  • The "train" is not an actual tail but an extension of elongated upper tail coverts.
  • Can span five to seven feet during displays.
• Iridescence:
  • Caused by the microscopic structure of feathers, not pigments.
  • Reflective surfaces create vibrant, shifting colors as light interacts with the feather architecture.

Notable Quote:

Josh Clark ([07:29]): "Blue peafowl, the most common one. They're the biggest of the three. The adult male can measure 50 inches. That's a little over four feet."

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5. Behavior and Mating Rituals

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the elaborate behaviors associated with peafowl, particularly during mating season.

• Mating Displays:
  • Males fan out their feather trains to attract females.
  • Feathers vibrate at a frequency of approximately 25.6 Hz, creating a resonant effect that peahens can perceive both visually and tactilely.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([16:03]): "When a male wants to impress a peahen, that peacock will prop up those feathers into a big beautiful fan."

• Resonance and Communication:
  • Feathers not only display colors but also transmit vibrations through head feathers, enhancing the mating signal.

Notable Quote:

Josh Clark ([17:00]): "They resonate at the same rate. The male peacock, when he shakes those feathers, that fan, he can shake it at more than 25 times a second."

• Sexual Selection:
  • Peahens select mates based on the quality of the male's display, indicating genetic fitness.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([19:41]): "What you're seeing is teleological, natural selection, baby."

• Social Structure:
  • In species like the Indian and Green peafowl, males maintain harems but do not control mate selection; females choose based on displays.

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6. Natural and Sexual Selection

The episode delves into the evolutionary biology behind peafowl's mating behaviors.

• Charles Darwin's Observations:
  • Initially resistant to the idea that females select mates based on elaborate displays.
  • Over time, accepted that sexual selection drives the evolution of the peacock's plumage.

Notable Quote:

Josh Clark ([25:20]): "Females in the animal kingdom are typically the ones who select sexually and end up being the drivers of natural selection."

• Ocelli (Eyespots):
  • Enhance the visual appeal of the train and signal vitality to potential mates.
  • Studies show that males with more and larger ocelli have higher reproductive success.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([25:47]): "The more of those they have and the larger that they are and the more just big and beautiful they are, it looks like the larger offspring they're going to have, they're going to be more likely to survive."

• Experiment on Ocelli Importance:
  • Males with ocelli covered experienced a significant decline in mating success.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([27:44]): "Researchers have figured out for sure that eye spots play a big role because some peacock had his eye spots covered up... their copulation success declined to almost zero."

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7. Iridescence in Peacock Feathers

Building on previous discussions, the hosts explain the science behind the shimmering appearance of peacock feathers.

• Structural Colors:
  • Iridescence is produced by the microscopic arrangement of melanin-coated barbs.
  • Light interacts with feather structures, reflecting different wavelengths based on viewing angles.

Notable Quote:

Josh Clark ([31:06]): "The pigments... are melanin... but the structure is totally different... creates what's called a partial band gap."

• Convergent Evolution:
  • Similar eye spots in unrelated species demonstrate convergent evolution, where similar traits evolve independently.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([25:57]): "It's called convergent evolution and not co evolution."

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8. Cultural and Historical Significance

Josh and Chuck explore the role of peacocks in human culture and history.

• Ancient Civilizations:
  • Phoenicians: Transported peacocks from India to Syria as status symbols.
  • Romans: Considered peacock tongues a gastronomic delicacy.

Notable Quote:

Josh Clark ([36:43]): "In the middle ages in Europe, they would actually eat peacock, like, the whole thing... roast the bird, and then redress it with its feathers to be served to the lord of the manor."

• Mythology:
  • Greek Mythology: Hera's chariot was pulled by peacocks.
  • Hindu Tradition: Lord Krishna adorns peacock feathers in his headdress.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([40:00]): "Lord Krishna in the Hindu tradition wears peacock feathers as a headdress. And there have been many other examples over the years in Greek mythology and Roman mythology about the peacock."

• Peacock Throne:
  • An opulent throne adorned with precious stones and gold, symbolizing immense wealth and power.

Notable Quote:

Josh Clark ([40:19]): "The Peacock throne is one of the most expensive things that's ever been made... It had 2,500 pounds of gold and 500 pounds of precious stones, including the Kor I Noor diamond."

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9. Conservation Status and Challenges

The episode addresses the conservation concerns surrounding different peafowl species.

• Blue Peafowl:
  • Status: Not endangered; thriving in suitable habitats.
  • Challenges: In areas like Florida and California, overpopulation can lead to habitat degradation, prompting measures like vasectomies in places like Pinecrest.

Notable Quote:

Josh Clark ([42:48]): "Pinecrest is a rather well-heeled suburb of Miami, because a lot of towns can't afford to give peacocks vasectomy."

• Green Peafowl:
  • Status: Endangered.
  • Threats: Habitat loss due to land development and agriculture, poisoning by farmers.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([42:48]): "The green peafowl they are under threat though. They're listed as endangered because they are from Southeast Asia and a lot of their natural habitat has been done away with."

• Congo Peafowl:
  • Status: Vulnerable.
  • Threats: Similar to green peafowl, with additional pressures from hunting.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([43:39]): "They are vulnerable. Also habitat loss and hunting. And there are about 10,000 of those in the wild."

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10. Collective Nouns and Final Thoughts

To conclude, the hosts share interesting linguistic tidbits and reflect on the episode's discussions.

• Collective Nouns for Peafowl: Pride, ostentation, party.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([43:48]): "A group of peafowl are called a pride, an ostentation or a party. A peacock party."

• Listener Mail:
  • A listener from Maine shares insights on the state's strict billboard laws, enhancing the episode's coverage on human interactions with peafowl and environmental conservation.

Notable Quote:

Chuck Bryant ([44:27]): "Maine law does not allow billboards of any kind. They have a very prescriptive law regarding signs not on business property... to preserve scenic resources."

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Conclusion

Josh and Chuck provide a multifaceted exploration of peafowl, blending scientific insights with historical contexts and contemporary conservation issues. Their engaging discussion not only educates but also highlights the delicate balance between appreciating these beautiful creatures and ensuring their survival in the wild.

Final Quote:

Josh Clark ([43:27]): "Losing any animal to extinction sucks. But losing particularly beautiful ones, that their very presence makes the world a better place to live in. Those are. You don't want to lose those."

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the episode guidelines, focusing solely on the informative and engaging discussion between Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant on peacocks.

Transcript

[Josh Clark]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

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[Dave]

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[Chuck Bryant]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. Jerry's here, too, and I can't think of anything hilarious to say, so I'm just going to say this is stuff you should know.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right, Live show Listener Request Edition. Because, yeah, peacocks came to us. Did you get her name? Or can we just say the wonderful young girl at our Atlanta live show?

[Josh Clark]

I really want to say Sarah, but I'm not sure. So whoever you are, young girl who suggested peacocks at the Atlanta show, write in to tell us your name so we can tell everybody.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, so this is a great idea. We're talking about peacocks, which is, if you want to look at the word itself, it's English, and it is derived from the Latin word pavo. And in Old English, that was pronounced PA wa p a w a, and that was shortened over the years to po, eventually pocock, then powcock, and I guess peacock. And it's linked a little bit to this old expression, proud as a poet, which is how a peacock kind of struts around all prideful. And then eventually it became peacock.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And you would think it would have become peacock like in the 1950s or 60s, but no, it became peacock as far back as the 1300s.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So that's it for etymology of peacocks. But there's a little more about the word peacock because a lot of you are getting things wrong and you need to be corrected harshly sometimes. A peacock is specifically the male of the species. Obviously the peahen is the female. So if you see a brown, kind of drab looking peacock and you say, look at that brown peacock, well, you just sound like a hayseed. It's a peahen. And she's not drab. She's camouflaged.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. They're little babies called pea chicks. And if you want to talk, as we're going to, about the. The species as a whole, we're going to be saying peafowl. And then we will. You know, when we say cock, we're going to mean male. When we say hen, we're going to mean lady. And when we say chick, we're going to mean bb.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I think we've really laid it out.

[Chuck Bryant]

There are three main species speaking of laying this out of the peafowl, and you have the most common that if you live in the United States and you've seen one maybe in a zoo, maybe in a park, or maybe just strutting around your neighborhood.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, we have some walking around our area too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah? Is it. I mean, the same ones from many years ago? Because you told the story years ago about the sound of the peacock.

[Josh Clark]

Sorry, no, those were Yumi's grandma's peacock neighborhood peacocks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay.

[Josh Clark]

And for some reason, the ones that live around me are not a disturbance at all. I mean, they make their sounds, but it's few and far between. It's not annoying at all. It's kind of cute. And it's just a different experience than it was around Yumi's grandma's house.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, fair enough. I mean, I've talked before about my neighborhood peacocks. I have not seen them in a few years, so I don't know if they're still around. And the house is on my morning dog walk, so I haven't seen those peacocks around in a little while, those peafowl. So I'm not sure if they're around. But we used to see them occasionally and it was all great fun. But where I started 10 minutes ago saying is if you see one of those in the United States, you're probably almost certainly looking at a blue peafowl or an Indian peafowl.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, for sure. They are not native to the United States, although they thrive in coastal warmish areas, kind of muggy areas you could say too, although also arid areas. Anyway, California and Florida, let's just specify that they do really well there. But they're native to India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes, exactly. They're the most common. A little less common, but still more common than the third group is the green peafowl or the Javanese peafowl. So native to Java, Southeast Asia and Myanmar. And then what's our little third grouping?

[Josh Clark]

The Congo peafowl.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

It's like a little mini turkey. He looks like. They look like they're native to the Congo basin in Africa. And the Indian and Javanese peafowl prefer kind of openish fields and maybe kind of tree lined streets. That's why they love neighborhoods, parks. Like it replicates their native habitat. The Congo peafowl prefer to live in the forest itself.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's right.

[Josh Clark]

So that's where they like to live.

[Chuck Bryant]

No matter which kind of peafowl you're talking about, they're all going to be omnivores. They eat lots of seeds and berries and you know, plant life and stuff like that, as well as some insects. But they'll also munch down on a mouse or a little cute lizard or a snake if they want to. If they're feeling peckish, I guess get it?

[Josh Clark]

Peckish. So they are among the largest flying birds in the world. Something a lot of people don't realize about peafowl is that they can fly. Apparently the green peafowl, fowl. Yeah, I said that right. Is a pretty strong flyer. The Indian or blue peafowl is not great, but they can make it to the roof of a two story building pretty fast if a dog like Momo barks at them, I can tell you that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I've seen that too.

[Josh Clark]

So they're, they can fly and they are very large too. Blue peafowl, the most common one. They're the biggest of the three. The adult male can measure 50 inches. That's a little over four feet. God knows how many meters we're talking about, let's say 1.2. And it's trained so that what you think of as the tail feathers are actually not the tail, they actually protrude out of the back of the peafowl. Or the peacock in this case, that can be five to seven feet long. So they are a big, big bird. Not big bird size, but they're still a big bird.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And as you'll see, that big beautiful train is a big part of mating ritual. So when you see that thing fully displayed, when that peacock wants to have a little good time with a peahen, that thing may go five to seven feet in every direction.

[Josh Clark]

It's amazing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Very, very large.

[Josh Clark]

They also use it to defend their territory. I saw a guy laying pavers once and he was apparently laying pavers on a peacock's territory because the peacock had his train like fully fanned out.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, really?

[Josh Clark]

And was like shaking and staring at the guy like, I'm gonna kill you if you don't stop laying pavers right there.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, wow.

[Josh Clark]

The guy just completely ignored him. It was pretty funny to see. Cause that peacock was quite serious.

[Chuck Bryant]

I bet. So the blue adult male peacock is about a 13 pounder, if you don't count wild turkeys, which are usually put into a different family. Although they can be in the pheasant family, they are the largest. The peacock that is, is the largest in the pheasant family.

[Josh Clark]

You're not going to take a shot at the family name for the turkeys?

[Chuck Bryant]

I wasn't going to, but you can.

[Josh Clark]

Milagrididae.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh great.

[Josh Clark]

I think I got it. I didn't even practice that one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Good job.

[Josh Clark]

But those turkeys, did you say they can weigh up to £30?

[Chuck Bryant]

I didn't say that about the turkeys, but yeah, they're big.

[Josh Clark]

That's a big turkey. It's like Baby Huey types.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I got that turkey family living in, living at my camp. There's six or eight of them now. They're just. They hang around together, get them on the camp cam. It's just lovely.

[Josh Clark]

Well, are they used to your presence or. Because those things run. They have really sharp eyesight and they scatter quick.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, no, I mean, sadly, all the wonderful camp activity is when I'm not there. I have a feeling that they peer through the woods and they're like, the guys are down there again. Right. They'll leave tomorrow.

[Josh Clark]

Spending a weekend like standing up against a tree and not moving, seeing what happens.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I'll do that though.

[Josh Clark]

You should buy yourself some nice camouflage clothing first though. It'll help a lot.

[Chuck Bryant]

I've already got that stuff.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, so I also said that the blue peahens are sometimes considered drab. And I mean, compared to the males, they are not quite as Easy on the eyes, Right? But they're brown and they're drab. Because the female blue peahens are responsible for guarding their nests. And even though they spend a lot of time roosting in trees, very often they sleep overnight in trees. They build their nests on the ground in little depressions on the ground lined with sticks. And so they have to defend that nest at all times. The easiest way to defend it is to not be seen. So they steer clear of being seen by things like leopards and tigers and mongoose and all that by blending in with the surrounding terrain.

[Chuck Bryant]

And momos.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, Momo doesn't actually want to predate the peacock. She just wants it to know, like, this is Momo's yard peacock.

[Chuck Bryant]

Let them know who's boss.

[Josh Clark]

Right, exactly. Momo's boss.

[Chuck Bryant]

So the green peafowl, we're going to talk a little bit about all of them. Even though the blue are the most common, but the green, if it's not mating season, you may not be able to tell them apart. They both have that really nice green neck, that sort of light green here and there. And during mating season is when you're gonna see the male's train grow a lot longer. But then they molt and they shed those. So more or less, they look about the same when it's not mating season.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And they're both very, very beautiful. They have amazingly beautiful feathers as well.

[Chuck Bryant]

Very pretty.

[Josh Clark]

The little Congo pea fowl, they're kind of cute. Dark blue neck feathers and dark green. And black train females are also brown, but they're just not. Nothing can beat a blue peacock. They just can't. I'm sorry. That's a hill I'll die on if I have to.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's fantastic. And if you have one in your neighborhood and as a pet in captivity, if one of your neighbors does, you may just get used to that sound and get used to seeing them, because they could live 40, 50 years when kept as pets. I'm not suggesting that they be kept as pets. I'm just saying that people do that. They live about 10 to 25 years in the wild.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. They can also kind of haul pretty fast. They can run up to 10 miles an hour when they need to.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey, you gotta get a good running start if you wanna get off the ground.

[Josh Clark]

I guess that's right. With their little, like, aviator goggles on.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, totally.

[Josh Clark]

You wanna take a break?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

All right, well, we're gonna do that. Everybody watch this.

[Dave]

Stuff.

[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

I'm thirsty.

[Chuck Bryant]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength and wow, it's beginning to.

[Jerry]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Chuck Bryant]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Jerry]

Tis the season to be jollier.

[Dave]

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[Josh Clark]

So I think it's high time that we talk about what everybody thinks of when they think of peacocks, which is that amazing train of feathers spread out in a fan behind them. And it's correct to say him. And this is all part of the mating ritual, right? That's the whole point of those feathers. Again, the peacocks will use it to try to ward off or intimidate trespassers in their territory. But for the most part, the whole thing is to impress the peahens.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And when a male wants to impress a peahen, that peacock will prop up those feathers into a big beautiful fan. Dave likens it, Dave helped us with this to like an inverted umbrella. So it's sort of, you know, when you see it, it's sort of pointed back from their butthole area toward the hen. And they will shake those feathers. And the shaking isn't just like, hey, look how pretty and iridescent this gorgeous train is. Science has discovered semi recently that those vibrations are in lockstep with the peafowl's head feathers that they used to think were just for show, but now they realize they are. They vibrate at the same intensity and that they can actually, you know, sort of feel when those tail feathers are vibrating in their direction through their head feathers.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, they're like receivers. Isn't that neat?

[Chuck Bryant]

Super cool.

[Josh Clark]

They resonate at the same, at the same rate. The male peacock, when he shakes those feathers, that fan, he can shake it at more than 25 times a second. And that resonance, I think it's like 25.6 Hz to be exact. That just happens to be tuned in almost precisely to the crest feathers on the peafowl's head. And in addition to the sight, apparently peahens have amazing sight. So they're seeing everything that the peacock's showing them, but also they're feeling it like they're, they're. That's transmitting that vibration or resonance is transmitting to their head. So it's quite a, like, you're not going to turn down a peacock if you're a pen. They're pretty amazing dudes.

[Chuck Bryant]

I guess that's right. And before we get emails, I'm sure Josh will admit that when you said it just happens to vibrate at the same frequency, that is no accident at all. It's called natural selection, baby.

[Josh Clark]

Oh yeah, sure, I guess I'll admit that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Cheeky. But I'm sure somebody would write in and say, no, Josh, it didn't just happen to vibrate that way. It's by design.

[Josh Clark]

Intelligent design people, you mean?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, no, no.

[Josh Clark]

Creationists.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, by design as natural selection.

[Josh Clark]

It's very teleological.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't even know what that means. What's that mean?

[Josh Clark]

It means that everything has a purpose. So it was like designed to be a certain way.

[Chuck Bryant]

I love that. See people, when you don't know a word, it's okay to say I don't know what that means.

[Josh Clark]

It sure is, Chuck. That's a great example to set.

[Chuck Bryant]

So. And you didn't talk down to me. You told me the definition. Now I'm a little bit smarter because of you.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I wasn't like, dummy. Listen up.

[Chuck Bryant]

Teleological. All right, so we need to cover this part of the mating ritual, because the fact of the matter is the peacock loves to get around the block, if you know what I mean. They have a social structure called elek l e k, which is basically a harem. And the male is going to mate with several females. But here's the part that's a little, maybe not intuitive. Even though the male is mating with many females, the male isn't running the show as far as who he gets to do that with.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So he's putting on this huge show not to be like, I'm hypnotizing you, baby. Do my bidding. He's doing it because he's like, check me out. Don't you like me? Like, look at this. Aren't I amazing? And the female can either be like, I've seen better, or she could be like, yeah, you're right up my alley. You just happen to be vibrating at my resonance.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's teleological.

[Josh Clark]

So, yeah. So one of the ways that a male will make himself seem even more virile than he is, there's something called the hoot dash noise. And just the hoot is the noise part. It's called a hoot dash because right after the male hoots, he dashes toward the female and they start mating. Right. It's actually quite disturbing. To see a lot of mating in the animal world is really disturbing.

[Chuck Bryant]

I saw video, too. It's like the dash was very close to the hoot.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. But that's what the noise is called. So males realize that the more hoot dashing or hoot sounds that they make, the more females in earshot but not in eyeshot, I guess will hear, oh, wow. Like, Terry really gets it on with a lot of peahens. I'm going to give him a shot next time he comes around because he must be very virile. Like a third of those hoot dash sounds are faked, essentially.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. So when that finally happens, the female peahen will scratch out a little depression in the ground, basically, and line it with sticks. And that's their little nest. They're gonna lay four eggs that are gonna hatch after four weeks. And those little peachicks are up and around pretty much Right out of the gate. It'll take them a couple of weeks to fly. And those boys that are peacocks aren't gonna get those train feathers until their second year. They're like, why don't you just chill for a couple of years and not think about that thing?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, they are so cute too. Do not rely on the Internet for what a baby peacock looks like. Apparently it's been a great example to demonstrate how much AI is just screwing the Internet up.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh really?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, yeah. If you go on Google image search for baby peacocks, people think that there's pictures of a miniaturized cute big eyed peacock and that that's a baby peacock. They all look like peahens, like little brown pea hens. But even if they're peacocks, that's how they start out. So just check it out. Just search baby peacock for images and.

[Chuck Bryant]

See and it's a lie.

[Josh Clark]

It's a lie for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh my God. That's the cutest little iridescent blue baby duckling thing I've ever seen.

[Josh Clark]

Right, but it doesn't exist. That's not real. Hey, don't blame me. Blame the AI running the Internet.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, those eyes are suspiciously large and Disney like.

[Josh Clark]

So one other thing about the pea chicks is that they stay with their mom for two to six months depending on whether they're in captivity in the wild. Moms are much more maternal instinct wise in the wild than they are in captivity. So you know, depends on the situation, how long they hang around them. But just watching. Have you ever seen a peahen with her little pea chicks following her?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I've just seen the turkey version at the camp.

[Josh Clark]

It's very cute. Oh my God. I'll bet baby turkeys are pretty cute too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the following around is just very cute because mom's up front and there's six little guys and girls just following along. I can keep up. I can keep up.

[Josh Clark]

And there's always one straggler that has to run faster to catch up with the group.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, Barney.

[Josh Clark]

Love that guy. Who?

[Chuck Bryant]

Barney?

[Josh Clark]

That's a perfect name.

[Chuck Bryant]

So the dads, as far as blue and green peacocks go, are not around. They're complete absentee dads. But hey, if you're feeling bad for the family unit, just go to the Congo. Because those Congo peafowl are monogamous. They don't have those leks they like one lady and they hang around and feed and raise peachicks with mommy.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Pretty great, huh?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's great.

[Josh Clark]

So I think we should talk A little bit about natural selection, sexual selection, Charles Darwin, kind of what you were alluding to earlier, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Because Charles Darwin was bringing a little too much of his human baggage to some of this research. It seems pretty clear, don't you think?

[Josh Clark]

For sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

And how was he doing that?

[Josh Clark]

So Darwin grew up or lived in the Victorian era where women were viewed as passive, submissive. They were just there and had their fingers crossed that a man of adequate dashingness would come along and marry them. Right. So that meant that it was the men, the males of the Victorian era, human species in England at least, that were responsible for sexual selection. They chose the winners and the losers among women. Well, Darwin was looking around the world of nature, basically all the other animals, and was like, that's not really what I'm seeing out there. And in the peacocks in particular, the females are, again, drab, really camouflaged, while the males have these amazing, beautiful displays that strongly suggests that the males are performing for the females and it's the females who are doing the sexual selecting. And he had such a hard time wrestling with this. There's a quote from him that said the sight of a pea feather made him sick.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Because he could not give in. And he finally was, you know, science got the better of him and he's like, that's just how it is. I don't like it. But females in the animal kingdom are typically the ones who select sexually and end up are the. They're the drivers of natural selection. They choose what passes on to the next generation based on the kind of male mates that they choose.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And that choosing is based on that flashy display that we're going to talk a little bit more about as far as the colors and stuff go and that vibration. But if there's science behind that, or is there science behind that? Yes. In 1994, it seems like it. At least there were some researchers in Britain that found that the bigger peacocks that had more eye spots, you know, they look like eyes. What are they called? Ocelli.

[Josh Clark]

Ocelli.

[Chuck Bryant]

Ocelli.

[Josh Clark]

Ocelli. In the Italian, it'd be celli, because C followed by a vowel is a ch sound. So let's just go with Italian and say Ocelli.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. But the more of those they have and the larger that they are and the more just big and beautiful they are, it looks like the larger offspring they're going to have, they're going to be more likely to survive. So it seems like they are more genetically fit.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And those Eyespots play a real starring role in this whole sexual selection mating process. Right. So the feathers, in and of themselves are pretty amazing. But the eye spots, these little dots with different colors on them that are scattered all across the train feathers, the fan, they are of a slightly different structure, slightly different density than the rest of the feathers surrounding them. So when that train resonates at 25.6 Hz, they appear to stand still and float against the background of the other feathers that are vibrating at the same frequency, but are just of a slightly different density. And this is so important. These ocelli, the eye spots are so important. The scientists have figured out that other species that also have eye spots, they don't share a common ancestor with peacocks that had eye spots. Chuck. Eyespots evolved separately over different times among different species. They're that important for mating.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And thanks to our listener mail in the Ruby Ridge episode, it's called convergent evolution and not co evolution.

[Josh Clark]

Very nice. I say we take a break then, since we're done talking about eye spots. Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. We'll finish up with Act 3 right after this.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, wait, wait. There was one more thing about eye spots.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wait, stop the presses. Jerry, roll tape.

[Josh Clark]

Researchers have figured out for sure that eye spots play a big role because some poor schmo of a peacock had his eye spots covered up. And they said, go out to ladies night and see what happens.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

And he got nothing from nobody, ever, while his eye spots were covered up.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the copulation. The quote is, their copulation success declined to almost zero.

[Josh Clark]

Almost. They were just being nice.

[Chuck Bryant]

They were. All right, now are we breaking?

[Josh Clark]

Yes. I don't have any other breaking news.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, everybody take five then. We're back. Stuff you should know. Hey, everyone. We're brought to you today by the Capital One Quicksilver card. Earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase everywhere. Plus, there's no limit to the amount of cash back you can earn. And rewards don't expire for the life of the account. It's that simple. The Capital One Quicksilver Card. What's in your wallet? Termsupplyccapital1.com for details.

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Partisan.

Partisan.

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for 50 off. So how about a clasmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita?

[Jerry]

I'm thirsty.

[Chuck Bryant]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule. Choose my strength and.

[Jerry]

Wow, it's beginning to feel more seasonal in here already.

[Chuck Bryant]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Jerry]

Tis the season to be jollier.

[Dave]

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Partisan. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay.

[Courtney Thorne Smith]

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[Chuck Bryant]

All right, we are back to finish up with peacocks, and we're going to talk a little bit about something we did an entire episode on, and that is iridescence. This was many years ago that we did an EP on iridescence. And if you want a really deep dive on the science of it, you can go listen to that ep. But what we're looking at in the case of peacock feathers and why they look iridescent or just so shiny and majestic looking is because of the shape. It's a physical shape of something and not necessarily a color of something. Right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. The pigments that are in the peacock's tail feathers are melanin. And melanin typically looks brown to us. It's what gives human skin kind of a brown cast to it. That is melanin pigment. And it's no different in a peacock's feathers, but the structure is totally different. Like you said, there's a crystalline structure of overlaying barbs that if you look in an electron microscope, you can see quite clearly. And those barbs, those crystal barbs of melanin there's, like, little gaps between them. And in fact, it creates what's called a partial band gap, which means that electromagnetic waves do not penetrate some area depending on where that light is hitting. To put simply, Chuck, depending on which angle, which direction light hits these melanin rods, the crystalline melanin rods, it's going to reflect or absorb all different kinds of light. And so the same structure can reflect or absorb different kinds of light depending on where the light hits it. Which means if you're looking at it one way and you move slightly left, you're looking at a different part of that structure, and it's reflecting different colored light. And that's how iridescence comes along.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. Partial band gap. Not to be confused with the partial gap band, which is the sad tour when two out of three of those guys went out on the road.

[Josh Clark]

It wasn't a very good tour, was it?

[Chuck Bryant]

It wasn't a very good joke, but I couldn't help myself. Yeah, I mean, that's iridescence in a nutshell. That's basically how it works across nature. It's just about the structure of the thing. And what do we talk about? We talked about fish and butterfly wings mainly, I think, on that episode.

[Josh Clark]

It's so neat. And. Yeah, it's just the structure. If you take a bunch of crystals and pile them on top of each other and little weird repeating patterns, they're going to become iridescent. It's gorgeous. Apparently Isaac Newton figured it out all the way back in 1704. Yeah, based on. Yeah, based on peacock feathers. He said, check these out, man. I know what's going on. You'll just have to find out.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. We do need to talk about their Yelp because it's a. You know, I mean, you used to do a pretty good impression. You want to try it?

[Josh Clark]

Help.

[Chuck Bryant]

Help. It always sounds like help.

[Josh Clark]

That's what it sounds like to me. It's uncanny and unnerving.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it is. And I always laughed at that years ago, until we got our own neighborhood peacocks. And then I would hear it occasionally, and I was like, yeah, Josh is right. Or is Josh in that backyard right now? Is one of those two things is happening? Yeah, it's pretty shrill. It can get annoying. If you live near one, I don't mind it so much because I didn't live next door to one, but it's usually in the morning and evening during mating season, it can pick up a bit. So I don't know if there were complaints or if these local peacocks just, you know, met their natural end, you know, I don't know if they were taken out or if they were moved to a farm. You know what I'm saying?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I know what you're saying.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or if they just had little pee strokes and died.

[Josh Clark]

They were elf struck. So they also. They honk, too. Like, I can't even do the honk. And the honk like a goose. That's that hoot dash thing sounds kind of like.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah, it does sound a little honkish.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So they can do that a lot too. And if you put it all together, yeah, it can be very annoying. But, Chuck, I cannot figure out what the difference is between Yumi's grandma's neighborhood, my neighborhood, because I have a completely different opinion of the annoyance level of peacocks now. I don't understand why, but there's the facts.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, maybe you aged into it.

[Josh Clark]

I guess so. I'm older, wiser, gentler.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

More peacock loving.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sure. I think we all get that way.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so let's talk about the history of these things. Jumping back a little bit. A few thousand years ago, the ancient Phoenicians were the first folks to say, hey, these things are great. Let's move them around to different places. Because these things strutting around a palace is really something to see. So they brought them from India to Syria. They were traded around the Mediterranean at that point. And they did become like a status symbol. If you were nobility or royalty or had a lot of money or lived in a palace, then you probably wanted some peacocks strolling around your property.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. You might also want to eat them. I forgot to send you this thing that I found. The Romans ate them, but they specifically liked their tongues. Peacock tongue was a delicacy in ancient Roman times.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

In the middle ages.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wait, where are you going to send me?

[Josh Clark]

This is what I'm about to tell you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay. I thought you were going to send me a peacock tongue in the mail. Flash, flash.

[Josh Clark]

Bleeding. So in the middle ages in Europe, they would actually eat peacock, like, the whole thing. But they figured out a way to remove the skin so that the feathers all came off too. Then they would roast the bird, and then they would redress it with its feathers to be served to the lord of the manor by the most beautiful girl at the party, I guess. And then it would just sit there for a little while. They would carve into it, eat it, and have a lot of trouble digesting it because apparently it's really tough. So Much so that doctors of the time were like, don't eat peacock. It's really just not good for you.

[Chuck Bryant]

So they would just stick the feathers back in it in an ornamental way.

[Josh Clark]

The picture I saw or the painting I saw made it look like they did a pretty good job of making it look like it was alive again.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Interesting. I think even a lot of meat eaters appreciate the animal not looking like its original form when it's on the plate.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. Right. You don't really want to recognize it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Like, you know, I love a branzino, but I don't like that fish head looking up at me.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, no. You don't like roly poly fish heads?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I don't want to see it, but I'll still dine on a branzino. I got a friend whose brother will take that eyeball out and eat it right at the table in front of everybody.

[Josh Clark]

What is wrong with that guy?

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, supposedly that's the thing to do, you know, use all the animal. But I just. I don't want to eat an eyeball.

[Josh Clark]

No. Did I ever tell you about the time we went to H and F and like, we. We just went too far.

[Chuck Bryant]

No.

[Josh Clark]

So for everybody who doesn't know, H and F is a restaurant in Atlanta and they're well known for, like, using all parts of the animal.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And we went and we were like, if you go further down, the menu, like, gets more and more hardcore. And we just kind of tried it one time and we got as far as fried chicken heads or beaks, which had a lot of the head attached still. And goodness, like, the whole table just kind of. It just took a dark turn and everybody stopped talking and it was a bad jam. So I don't recommend the fried chicken beaks at Holman and Finch anymore.

[Chuck Bryant]

That sounds too much like a McNoggin. You remember that? No, I think I sent it to you years ago. It was supposedly in a thing of chicken nuggets, but it was a deep fried little chicken head that got through. And they called it the McNoggin.

[Josh Clark]

That is what H and F sells as a dish.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right. It's been very instructive, for sure.

[Josh Clark]

I know our poor live show fan Sarah is like, I know. Sorry, I asked for.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I said butthole earlier, too. This is going downhill.

[Josh Clark]

It is.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so back to history and peacocks. Lord Krishna in the Hindu tradition wears peacock feathers as a headdress. And there have been many other examples over the years in Greek mythology and Roman mythology about the peacock. I believe Hera even had peacocks pulling.

[Josh Clark]

Her chariot at 10 miles an hour.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, exactly.

[Josh Clark]

She was protected by a giant named argus who had 100 eyes and he was killed by Hermes. And so she brought him back as the peacock. I thought, that's a great story. Yeah. There's also the Peacock throne, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. The Peacock throne is one of the most expensive things that's ever been made if it drives it home. I think it was about twice the cost of the Taj Mahal to build this one throne which had, oh, 2,500 pounds of gold. 500 pounds, not 500 precious stones. 500 pounds of precious stones, including the.

[Josh Clark]

Kor I Noor diamond, which is 105carat diamond. Pretty amazing stuff. They managed the Mughal empire in India and managed to hang onto the throne for about 100 years until they were invaded by the Persians, I believe, who were like, we're taking this throne. This is essentially the reason we invaded, was to get this throne and they disassembled it and basically sold it off for parts, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

But if you go onto the Internet and you search Peacock throne, you will see photographs of a peacock throne that looks pretty amazing. And you will say, well, how could this have been destroyed back in the 17th or 18th century? And the reason why is because what you're looking at is the replica that King Ludwig II of Bavaria, our friend the fairy tale king, had constructed for his castle. Neuschwanstein.

[Chuck Bryant]

Look at that.

[Josh Clark]

Neuschwanstein.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Which one?

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know. I'm just amazed that you brought that around. Nice work.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Neuschwanstein sounds great.

[Josh Clark]

Neuschwanstein.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Any chance I have to bring King Ludwig II into the story, I'm going to take it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, you had that shirt made. That helps.

[Josh Clark]

Ask me about King Ludwig ii.

[Chuck Bryant]

Endangered, yes or no? Indian blue fowl are not endangered. In fact, they're doing really, really well. And you mentioned, you know, in places in Florida and even Southern California, they can get a little out of hand with their menace. They can tear up foliage and they can poop all over the place and they can destroy habitats that other birds have. So people sometimes now even are trapping them and giving them vasectomies.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. There's a town called Pinecrest, a suburb of Miami, which is giving peacocks vasectomy. So if you couldn't have guessed, Pinecrest is a rather well heeled suburb of Miami, because a lot of towns can't afford to give peacocks vasectomy.

[Chuck Bryant]

That green peafowl they are under threat though. They're listed as endangered because they are from Southeast Asia and a lot of their natural habitat has been done away with thanks to land development and agricultural mowing down of their environment. And also farmers who will poison them if they come into their fields.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, there's only I think 10,000 or 20,000 left of them in the wild. Hopefully someone steps up because losing any animal to extinction sucks. But losing particularly beautiful ones, that their very presence makes the world a better place to live in. Those are. You don't want to lose those.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And as for the Congo peafowl, we don't want to forget about those fellas. They are vulnerable. Also habitat loss and hunting. And there are about 10,000 of those in the wild.

[Josh Clark]

Man alive.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know.

[Josh Clark]

Let's see. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. I don't really think we have anything else, do we?

[Chuck Bryant]

I got nothing else.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, a group of peafowl. You know, what is it? Collective nouns. Isn't that what they're called?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, or that was another name for him. Something of something.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. I remember what you're talking about. I don't remember what it was too. But in this case, peacocks. A group of peacocks are called a pride, an ostentation or a party. A peacock party.

[Chuck Bryant]

I like that.

[Josh Clark]

I do too. I like all three of them. Well, since Chuck and I agreed that we like the collective nouns for peacocks, then obviously we have just unlocked listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm going to call this main and billboards. Hey guys. Longtime super fan of Spreading the Stuff youf should know Kool Aid. Ooh, Far and wide flavorade. I think they make any miles I drive to reach anywhere in Maine fly by. So thanks for that. When you ask someone in Maine how far away a destination is, be prepared to often hear about an hour. But that can mean 45 minutes to nearly two hours. Fun fact here though, about Maine. During a recent episode on Kudzu, you were talking about how it takes over billboards and I know you get a lot of listener mail from Maine. I thought you might like to know an exciting factoid. Have you ever been to Maine and marveled at its natural beauty? Well, part of that is due to something that's missing. Billboards. Guys, Maine law does not allow billboards of any kind. They have a very prescriptive law regarding signs not on business property, AKA in Maine vernacular, official business directional signs. The rules are very strict and include a special provision that rolling signs like ones attached to Vehicles cannot even be used to get around these requirements. And I think it is a $30 license fee to get a sign that can be 48 inches by 12 inches or 72 inches by 16 inches. And you can only use two fonts. They must be white with a single color background. And this is literally just to say, like, my pressure washing business is down there or whatever. They say that people in Maine consider billboards to be detrimental to the preservation of scenic resources. And that is a great law. And that's one reason we love Maine. And that is from. Who's that from? That's from Katrina Peterson.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks, Katrina. That is a very sensible, awesome law. I love that. It's one of the worst things to see when you're driving down the highway is a bunch of billboards. Yeah, it's terrible. Great. Thanks for letting us know that hopefully as Maine goes, the rest of the world follows. And if you want to be like Katrina and get in touch with us and let us know of a very sensible local law, we love that kind of thing. You can send us an email to stuff podcastiheartradio.com.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Bartesian.

Bartesian.

It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for 50 off, so how about a Cosmopolitan or a Mistletoe margarita?

[Jerry]

I'm thirsty.

[Chuck Bryant]

Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength, and wow, it's beginning to.

[Jerry]

Feel more seasonal in here already.

[Chuck Bryant]

If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off.

[Jerry]

Tis the season to be jollier.

[Dave]

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey, everyone, this is Courtney Thorne Smith, Laura Layton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as.

[Josh Clark]

Melrose Place was introduced.

[Chuck Bryant]

To the world. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, and every single wig removal together.

So listen to still the place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yo, what up? It's your girl Jess. Hilarious. And I think it's time to acknowledge that I'm not just a comedian. It's time to add uncertified therapist to my credentials. Because each and every Wednesday I'm fixing your mess on carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Got problems in your relationship? Come to me. Your best friend acting shady, come to me. Thought you was the father but you not come to me. I can't promise I won't judge you, but I can guarantee that I will help you. Listen to Carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. ATT Connecting changes everything.