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- [00:00]
Chuck Bryant
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:04]
Josh Clark
In today's super competitive business environment, the edge goes to those who push harder, move faster and level up every tool in their arsenal. T Mobile knows all about that. They're now the best network according to the experts at Ookla speed tests. And they use that network to launch Super Mobile. The first and only business plan to combine intelligent performance, built in security and seamless satellite coverage. That's your business. Supercharged. Learn more@supermobile.com seamless coverage with compatible dev
- [00:32]
Chuck Bryant
most outdoor areas in the US where
- [00:34]
Josh Clark
you can see the sky.
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Chuck Bryant
Best network based on analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data 2H2025 we're
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Josh Clark
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- [01:09]
Chuck Bryant
Take five. Fitting into your busy schedule is something you should know. Find your nearest shop@take5.com with no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC. Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
- [01:52]
Josh Clark
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. And Jerry's here to zoo, which makes this stuff you should know.
- [02:00]
Chuck Bryant
That's right. Boy, Livia had a good title on this one.
- [02:04]
Josh Clark
Did you like it? Go ahead.
- [02:07]
Chuck Bryant
Well, this is about contortionists and Livia titled what she sent us. Bend It Like Gumby.
- [02:15]
Josh Clark
That's right.
- [02:16]
Chuck Bryant
I think it's good.
- [02:17]
Josh Clark
It is good. Yeah. Livia always comes up with the best titles.
- [02:21]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, and now we know that she listens to some of these because she heard you take a dig at her
- [02:27]
Josh Clark
about explaining what a socket and electrical plug does. Yeah, yeah. She's a good sport, though. Let's see, what else. Chuck, I guess you already spoiled what this episode's about. It's about contortionism, which I guess we were going to have to get into eventually.
- [02:45]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. I mean, obviously we're talking about bending your body in ways like Gumby, that are. Yeah, like Gumby. Bending your bodies in ways that are extraordinary. And as we have learned, it's something that maybe you're kind of born with and definitely something you can work toward and maybe a bit of both.
- [03:03]
Josh Clark
Yeah. I always assumed it was just a born thing and that, like, one out of every 15 million people were born as a contortionist, essentially. And I figured, yes, of course, they have to train and everything and, you know, choreograph. There's a lot of types of contortionism that are essentially contortionist ballets, especially like the ones you see at Cirque du Soleil, which, if you say that funny, it's a hilarious thing to say. It's a good joke. Yeah. But I guess I just didn't realize that it is something you can, like you or I could go train to be a contortious. We would fail utterly, but we could at least go train in our 50s and still do a lot better than we can right now. Because it is something you can adapt your body to.
- [03:48]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, for sure. And it's also something that's been around a long, long time. Right.
- [03:54]
Josh Clark
Yeah, it has. One more thing. It will help you a lot while we're going through some of this stuff to just. If you can look it up, watch videos. But even, like, just photos sometimes can kind of get the point across. It's just one of those things. While we were studying this, I was like, this is going to kind of be tough to describe in some cases, but we'll do our best.
- [04:16]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, well, I don't think it's going to be that hard to follow. People know what we're talking about.
- [04:20]
Josh Clark
Okay. So we are talking about contortionism. And you did say that it is very, very old. The oldest thing we've found that is pretty much a certainty that they're depicting a contortionist was an image that was found in Syria, an old, old Polaroid from 2300 BCE. And there's some contortionists and they're holding swords. And the best that historians can come up with is that it's possible that. So there's some Hittite writings that Describe a performance where contortionists basically jump through hoops of swords as basically a performance. Essentially. Basically say, can you do this? No, you can't.
- [04:59]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. And, you know, that followed. Of course, we have to talk about all the usual suspects. Of course China will come in, don't worry. But ancient Egypt, they found pottery fragments that date to 1200 BCE that definitely show women dancing in back bends, like, you know, contorting themselves.
- [05:19]
Josh Clark
Sure.
- [05:19]
Chuck Bryant
And the Greeks also did this later on as well, right?
- [05:22]
Josh Clark
Yeah, the Greeks is where we finally start to get to unambiguous descriptions of contortionism. I think as far back as, well, the, like about 2,500 years ago, something like that, contortionists had become like an actual thing, like they were part of troops or performers that performed in Greece. Like if you went to, say, a public festival, let's say Dionysus was being celebrated that day, there's a chance that you might find somebody doing a contortionist act as just kind of part of the festivities.
- [05:54]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, for sure. And, you know, I mentioned China, and this is one of those cases where we don't know if it's. If people in China, and this was like 221 BCE to 220 CE, if they were influenced by people from other parts of the world or not, or whether it developed independently when people over there realized that they were bendy. But when they look at some of the clothes that contortionists were wearing in China, it seems like it maybe was influenced by people in Europe, but also could have been maybe that's just the.
- [06:25]
Josh Clark
The garb they were all wearing. Benetton.
- [06:28]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, exactly. Stretchy stuff.
- [06:31]
Josh Clark
So, yeah, that's very interesting because usually something came out of China and it influenced Europe rather than going the other way around, especially that far back. So, yeah, as a person of European ancestry, I'm quite proud of that.
- [06:48]
Chuck Bryant
Of course, you would think India is probably a pretty obvious spot for contortionism. And you would be right, because there are sculptures in temples from India, these date to 10th century CE that also show women in contorted poses. This time it got a little sexier, though.
- [07:07]
Josh Clark
Yeah, I think a lot of times you think about something like the Kama Sutra and there are definitely contortionist poses in the Kama Sutra, but there's the. To just think of it as like, oh, this is just, you know, like you said, just sexy. There's a spiritual aspect to that whole thing too. It's like a tantric yoga practice, but it is Also sexy, just admittedly. But there's this that made me kind of wonder. Chuck, like, did like yoga and Buddhism and Hinduism and the incorporation of all these physical movements that include contortionism, did that kind of come out of this contortionist movement? I guess heritage or whatever that dates back to at least the Hittites. Or was what the Hittites were doing essentially the foundation for what would later become, you know, Buddhism and Hinduism?
- [07:59]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. And to be clear, when we say sexy, we mean they're depictions of actual intercourse because.
- [08:05]
Josh Clark
Oh, yeah. Thank you so much.
- [08:07]
Chuck Bryant
One of the things that's really annoying to me about all of this, and Livia picks this up sort of at the end of the article, but I'm gonna go ahead and address it now, is that if you get, you know, a hundred people in a room and there's a contortionist, there's probably gonna be some dim witted man making some stupid sexual reference about somebody being bendy, about a woman being bendy. And that's just dumb. So that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about, like, you know, actual pictures of sexual positions.
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Josh Clark
In this case, I think that was great because I. You could interpret it a way where we sounded like dirty old men, essentially. Yeah, yeah. The guys who like kind of elbow one another like, check it out, huh?
- [08:47]
Chuck Bryant
I mean, come on.
- [08:49]
Josh Clark
So some people have a further way to come than other people, you know.
- [08:54]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, that's true.
- [08:56]
Josh Clark
So back to India itself. There's a clear, like, comparison between contortionism and yoga today. And actually it's kind of neat because if you go online and you look up, like contortionism or training or something like that, it's essentially people who are into yoga and they're trying to figure out how to go even further. So they're following ancient practices that have been around for hundreds, if not thousands of years that are contortionist by nature.
- [09:26]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, for sure. England might not be the most obvious place to think about men doing contortionist poses, but that's exactly what happened in 17th and 18th century there in the form of posture masters. Posture masters is what they were called.
- [09:43]
Josh Clark
That sounds like a mattress, a posture master.
- [09:46]
Chuck Bryant
But that's what was going on. It's a little odd to think about now, but it might be like an actual performance. Maybe sometimes it was something that they would do on the street to raise money, like busking or maybe to try, instead of holding a sign outside your business, there might be a male posture master sitting outside Your tavern to try and get people in there. But it was kind of a big deal. And they kind of became sort of famous in England at the time.
- [10:13]
Josh Clark
Yeah, I mean, this was before tv, radio, Internet, even newspapers in a lot of cases. And there you could, as a male contortionist in particular, because it was a male dominated field at this time, at least in Europe. And it seems like basically throughout the world that you could become distinctly famous like a guy named Joseph Clark, who apparently in the late 17th century was a very, very famous contortionist in England. So much so that his last name was shorthand for contortion in England. And then eventually would morph into shorthand for giving somebody something that they want.
- [10:53]
Chuck Bryant
That's right. The circus is obviously going to come into play. And that is when the circus came into play. And that was. And we've done quite a few episodes on the circus back in the day. But as a reminder, this was late 18th century when Philip and Patti Astley, they had a. A lot of the early circuses were like horse riding tricks, like equestrian stuff. And theirs definitely formed out of that, out of their Astley's Riding School in London. And once the circus started spreading around, it came to the United States and. And within that circus world, contortionists started kind of performing on the regular. But you know, it started to get. And which is like it is today. It gets kind of mixed in with other sort of acrobatics.
- [11:40]
Josh Clark
Yeah. And just stepping back a couple of paces. Once it reached Europe and England in the 17th and 18th century, there was no spirituality associated with it. Once it reached Western Europe, it was performance from that point on, you know. And yeah, once it hit the circus, it's really started to morph into what we understand as contortionism today. There was one trick, I have to say, that Patty Astley did on her horse in the very beginning of circuses. She would ride her horse really fast and her arms would be covered in bees. Yeah, that's a wild ride for everybody involved.
- [12:20]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. But, you know, maybe she was a beekeeper.
- [12:24]
Josh Clark
It doesn't matter what she was doing, Chuck. She was riding full throttle on a horse with bees all over her arms. I mean, I'm assuming like they changed like the shape of her arms because there were so many bees. That kind of thing. Not like two or three bees on each arm.
- [12:39]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That wouldn't have much impact.
- [12:42]
Josh Clark
I don't think that impressed me quite a bit.
- [12:45]
Chuck Bryant
He was a pretty good trick. So the actual word contortionist that came around in 1860. Before then, it was just called other stuff, depending on what culture it was coming from. But if you were in the U.S. or if you were in England performing as a contortionist, you probably said that you were either Chinese or Turkish or German or French, or maybe you were. You might have just claimed to be one of those things because it had such a rich tradition and being bendy like that. But at this point, it started to be mainly women who were hired by male circus owners, and a lot of times performing exclusively for male audiences.
- [13:25]
Josh Clark
Right. And so, yeah, it kind of evolves even further. And luckily, that went from, like, the point of a contortionist act eventually evolving to, you know, a couple of dudes in the audience, like, elbowing one another where most people are, like, getting what the point is. But that said, there are contortionist acts today that are very much geared toward the. The sexual nature of the whole thing. And, you know, they're performed by women who are doing that on purpose. So you, you know, whatever, more power to them. There is, like, a thread of that. Like, you can't just be like, nope, that doesn't exist. That stopped saying that. But the point of most contortionist performances, it seems like, is not that. That's a very niche thing these days.
- [14:15]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, for sure. There was one kind of notable early contortionist we got to mention here. Name. Well, her real name was Beatrice Mary Claxton, but Beatrice Claxton isn't the best name for a contortionist. So she went by Anna Bertoldi, which is much more of a sort of a circusy name. And starting at, like, age 8 years old, she was touring around. And as we'll see, you know, contortionism is mainly a sport of the young. You can age out of it, like ballet in a lot of cases, but she was a kid doing it, and she performed all over Great Britain and then eventually traveled to the US in 1891. And one of the reasons we mention her is because she was very famously one of the early people that Thomas Edison filmed with his kinetoscope.
- [15:02]
Josh Clark
Yeah. Which is pretty cool. I mean, you have to be pretty famous in and of yourself to do that. But to, you know, be memorialized in one of the earliest film strips is definitely going to help your fame later on in history as a contortionist, I would think.
- [15:18]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, for sure.
- [15:19]
Josh Clark
So you want to take a little bit of a break and come back and talk about the epicenter, ground zero of contortionism where could that be?
- [15:44]
Chuck Bryant
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- [16:18]
Josh Clark
So congrats on 150 years of connecting people AT&T. Connecting changes everything. AT&T.
- [16:29]
Chuck Bryant
Support for the show comes from Public. Huh.
- [16:33]
Josh Clark
I wonder if this can beat the market. Everyone's talking about the NASDAQ 100, but let's get more specific. Software actually, too broad.
- [16:44]
Chuck Bryant
How about software that's already profitable? Companies that beat the last five quarters?
- [16:50]
Josh Clark
Oh, and I want founders who are marathon runners.
- [16:53]
Chuck Bryant
That's discipline.
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Josh Clark
Yeah, let's see what that looks like.
- [16:57]
Chuck Bryant
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- [17:41]
Josh Clark
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- [17:52]
Chuck Bryant
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- [18:10]
Josh Clark
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- [18:32]
Chuck Bryant
Stuff, stuff, stuff, stuff, Stuff, stuff, stuff, stuff.
- [18:42]
Josh Clark
Okay, so we're back. And I talked about the epicenter of contortionism, and I'm just going to reveal it now. It's Mongolia, everybody.
- [18:49]
Chuck Bryant
That's right. It has long been that sort of epicenter. It still is that epicenter. And we're going to tell you why. Because one of the reasons it started as a big deal, there is, or at least we think that it had to do with sort of meditative practices and also like a dance, a Buddhist dance known as the Psalm, which is, you know, also, you know, it's very religious, obviously tied to Buddhism, but has to do with, you know, training your body and mind to work together to do incredible things.
- [19:23]
Josh Clark
I also saw that it has secret meanings that you have to be a very highly advanced Buddhist monk to basically be let in on, which is pretty neat.
- [19:33]
Chuck Bryant
Oh, cool.
- [19:34]
Josh Clark
There's also a folk dance in Mongolia that's indigenous to Mongolia, from what I understand. B, L, G B I Y E L, G E, E. And as far as folk dances go, I'm not usually a huge fan of folk dance. Like, I wouldn't go to a community center to see a folk dance performance, but this is a pretty cool folk dance to. To just check out on video, in part because of the movements, which include contortionism, including full back bends to where the dancer's back is, like flat on the ground while they're on their knees, but also just the incredibly colorful costumes that they wear, too. It's really neat.
- [20:11]
Chuck Bryant
What is a folk dance performance? Like, what are you avoiding? I don't even know what that means.
- [20:17]
Josh Clark
It's kind of like when people from different cultures perform traditional dances.
- [20:25]
Chuck Bryant
Oh, okay.
- [20:26]
Josh Clark
That's a folk dance.
- [20:27]
Chuck Bryant
I gotcha. Okay.
- [20:28]
Josh Clark
I mean, what do you think? Like, square dancing? I guess that's probably a type of folk dance. Yeah. No, it's just, you know, any kind of cultural dancing, for some reason, it's never floated my boat, but I got you. I'm not yucking anyone's yum because I couldn't do a single step of any folk dance. And I'm usually impressed with anybody who can dance in any way, shape, or form.
- [20:50]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, me too. So 12th century is when it starts to become a really sort of mainstream thing in Mongolian culture, basically. You know, festivals, court appearances, obviously. And then 17th century is when there was a Buddhist leader named Andor Gegeen Zanzibar who inspired these contortionists with these. I guess they were. Was it like just art sculptures? Basically, the people, like, in all sorts of kind of contorted positions.
- [21:24]
Josh Clark
Yeah, he was like, do that position. I dare you. He would make sculptures of them. Yeah. And the guy was so, I guess, popular that, like, he actually advanced contortionism by pushing them to their limits. I guess as a sculptor. Yeah.
- [21:41]
Chuck Bryant
I mean, you can bend clay in ways you can't bend a body.
- [21:44]
Josh Clark
That's right. That's why you can bend it like Gumby man.
- [21:48]
Chuck Bryant
That's right.
- [21:49]
Josh Clark
So Mongolia is. And I thought this was pretty interesting, too. There's, like, contortionism evolving in different places around the world, you know, kind of simultaneously. But Mongolia basically took the mantle. And one of the reasons why is because they became a Soviet state in the 40s, and as part of the USSR, the government bankrolled the Mongolian state circus, which became world renowned, traveled the world. That's one of the ways it became world renowned, but also because they were really, really good. And one of the centerpieces of the Mongolian state circus was contortionism. And from that, it grew in popularity very, very quickly because there was a lot of funding for it. There's a lot of publicity for it. But that created a mushrooming of contortionist schools in Mongolia, some of which are still around today.
- [22:40]
Chuck Bryant
Oh, yeah, for sure. The first one. And the first sort of superstar of that circus was a contortionist named Tsin Dyush. And that was the first school. But like you said, there's a lot of them still there. And it's not just like, hey, if you're from Mongolia and you're a young girl and your parents think you're, like, pretty flexible early on, they may send you to this. Like that certainly happens. But people from all over the world, like gymnasts, will go and train like anyone who wants to sort of increase your flexibility in an extreme way. There's no better place in the world to go than contortionist school in Mongolia.
- [23:21]
Josh Clark
No, they know what they're doing. In other words.
- [23:24]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, for sure. Their circus isn't nearly as big ever since they peeled away from the Soviet Union in the early 90s, but it's still like a big kind of rich tradition in that country.
- [23:36]
Josh Clark
Oh, yeah, big time. Right now, the biggest school, I think the Oldest school is owned by a former sumo wrestler, and he is Mongolia's most famous, most revered sumo wrestler. He got out of the sumo game and bought the school for contortionism. The thing is, it's kind of in this decline. So much so that Mongolia has been trying to get UNESCO heritage protection for Mongolian contortionism because it's just not quite as widespread. Even though there's more schools than ever, it's just become much more diluted. I think there's a lower barrier to entry for being like, say, a teacher or a school owner or something like that. And then simultaneous to that, a lot of Mongolian contortionist trainers are going abroad and so they're taking it with them. But at the same time, someone in, say, like England who sees an English contortionist, they don't, or they're not regarding the idea that that person was trained by a Mongolian contortionist teacher, they are looking at the English contortionist. And so in that way, it's becoming less and less identified with Mongolia.
- [24:46]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. And it's kind of. I was kind of disappointed that UNESCO turned them down. They tried to get it added as a list of intangible heritage, which it seems very clear that that's the case. But they rejected the proposal. This was in 2011. And they said that advocates didn't make a strong enough case for its significance in Mongolian culture and society, which just. I don't know, I'm not on that board, obviously, but it seems pretty obvious to me as an outsider that it's like super tied to Mongolian culture.
- [25:17]
Josh Clark
Sure. Well, you will be heartened that the Mongolian folk dance Bielji is protected under UNESCO heritage.
- [25:24]
Chuck Bryant
I'll just take it one step further. UNESCO.
- [25:26]
Josh Clark
That's right. One. Because also, what's the big deal? I don't know. I was trying to think about that. I'm sure that they have a kind of mentality that's like, we don't want to open the floodgates or else, you know, But I mean, there's plenty of stuff that I'm sure deserves protecting that they're turning down. And you know what, I'd be interested to know about that. I'm going to look into that and we'll do a short stuff, all the stuff UNESCO's turned down for heritage protection.
- [25:51]
Chuck Bryant
Well, if you want to learn about the mechanics, now is your time to listen closely. This is the point where you were probably talking about maybe looking up pictures and stuff. But, you know, I think a lot of people have Seen a lot of this stuff. If you've ever watched when we were kids. That's incredible. Or America's Got Talent. These days, they'll have acts like this. Or certainly if you've ever been to, like, Cirque du Soleil or something.
- [26:17]
Josh Clark
Yeah.
- [26:18]
Chuck Bryant
But backbending, there's, like, kind of six main sort of overall things you can learn, and then within that, you can do all sorts of stuff to incorporate little side tricks, and then, you know, mix these together for, you know, performative purposes. But backbending, that's sort of the classic place that you start. The classic backbend.
- [26:38]
Josh Clark
Yeah. One of the things is the chest stand, and essentially it's where you're on your chest, see? So I'm gonna, like, everybody get in this position. I'm gonna walk you through it. You're on your chest flat, I guess it's prone on the floor. And you bend your. Your. Yourself at the waist, and you bring your hips back, back, back, back, back. And then you have your feet on either side of your head. You can do this. Everybody just hang in there. And then your feet are flat on the floor on either side of your head. Remember, you're still on your chest, but now your legs are completely over you and your feet are on either side of your head, flat on the floor. That's the chest stand. That's the most basic one. Anybody can basically do that, just jumping into it.
- [27:24]
Chuck Bryant
Well, my only note with that description is when you said your waist went back, back, back. Technically, I think your waist is going forward, forward, forward. So that might have confused people.
- [27:34]
Josh Clark
Okay. Yeah. I think maybe that's why I was like, this is. This is hard to describe because I knew I was going to screw it up just royally.
- [27:43]
Chuck Bryant
Well, you've also got the front bend. If someone has got a little humor to their performance, you're probably going to use a front bend, because that is when you're sort of doing the opposite, in which you fold your head and chest all the way between your legs to where you're sort of looking at your own butt. So obviously, insert joke right there.
- [28:02]
Josh Clark
Yes. These are the ones that really get to me. Like, the. There's like, some sort of preternatural, like, zap that contortionist poses can do to you. Or to me, at least. And the human pretzel one or the human knot, those are the ones that they just zap me a very thrilling way. But at the same time, I'm like, there's some part of my lizard brain that, like, that ain't right. Body's not supposed to do that.
- [28:32]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. I mean, we go to Cirque du Soleil every year. When it comes to Atlanta in the fall, that's kind of one of our little family traditions. And there's always some kind of contortionist, I feel like. But this last one, and I can't remember which one it was called, but they had a guy and it was. He was the best I had ever seen. It was. I wasn't quite sure what I was watching at certain points where you can't even tell which arm was which or, you know, it was definitely one of those brain breaking sort of performances. It was incredible.
- [29:05]
Josh Clark
Yeah, for sure. Those are. I think one of the other things too that I've noted, especially with Cirque du Soleil performances is it's not just like, hey, look, I'm in this pose and I'm holding this pose and now I'm just going to get into the next pose. Like the, the transition from one pose to another is incredibly important. And that's kind of what makes it like a very ballet like performance. You know, I think that's just. That makes the whole thing like even more amazing, but at the same time more. It zaps me less than just like a. Here's a pose. Check it out. Let it really sink in what I'm doing right now. Yeah, it's like, I like it when, when it's the way that you describe it where you like can't even tell what's what.
- [29:45]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, I mean, I think definitely the next part, balancing, is when that comes into play. That's, I think a lot of like the feats of strength combined with, you know, I said they kind of mix things up in circuses and the feats of strength is definitely when balancing comes in because that's when you're contorted in a pose and maybe you're like lifting yourself off the ground in a little ball that you can't even figure out with just your fingertips or something like that.
- [30:11]
Josh Clark
Yeah, a very famous one of these is the Marinelli Bend. And that is essentially kind of like. It's like a chest stand. It's very similar to a chest stand, except that rather than having your weight on your chest, you have all of the weight in your entire body on your teeth and you're probably biting a pole and that's what's holding you up while you're doing your chest stand in the middle of the air. It's. It's quite impressive. And I looked it up there is a Mongolian contortionist named Satsral Erdenebolig, and she holds the record for holding a Marinelli bend for 4 minutes and 17 seconds. That's a long time with her teeth.
- [30:52]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. Dislocation, that's another one that probably might trigger some folks. That is kind of one of those deals where it looks like you're popping your shoulder or your arm out of joint or something like that to achieve the sort of performative effect. The shoulder pass through was sort of a classic move. That's where you hold a stick with both hands and you move the stick all the way, you know, in front of your body and then over your head into your back, but you're not changing your grip, so your arms are twisting and contorting in ways that look like they've been dislocated.
- [31:28]
Josh Clark
Yeah, the splits, too. I always think of the splits as kind of like a cheer. Yeah, it's classic. It's like a cheerleader thing. Or, you know, your friend in the neighborhood can do it. Have you ever done a split?
- [31:40]
Chuck Bryant
No, I'm not. I mean, I used to be very flexible. Like, I could put my ankle, like my foot behind my head.
- [31:49]
Josh Clark
Wow.
- [31:50]
Chuck Bryant
When I was young and stuff like that.
- [31:52]
Josh Clark
When I was one.
- [31:53]
Chuck Bryant
Come close now. And Ruby the other day was just laughing at me because I was actually fairly close. But I was never a splitter.
- [32:01]
Josh Clark
All right, fair enough. I wasn't either. But one of the basic things that you have to learn is the splits, because so many of the other kind of movements and poses are based on being able to do a split. It's a basic one, but if you really want to be impressed, go look up over splits, which is doing a split. But say one foot is on a chair in front of you and the other foot is on a chair behind you, and you're a foot or so off of the ground, almost making just the beginnings of a U with your legs.
- [32:34]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, I like that standing split where you're on one leg and you have reached behind you and grabbed that foot and brought it all the way over. That's always. Because that's also incorporates balance, obviously.
- [32:47]
Josh Clark
I don't remember who did that, but one of the. I think one of the American skaters in the Winter Olympics did that while they were doing like a spin.
- [32:55]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [32:56]
Josh Clark
But it was like perfectly 90 degrees perpendicular to the ice. It was really amazing.
- [33:05]
Chuck Bryant
You got to. Or you'll get that half point deduction
- [33:08]
Josh Clark
and then twisting, too. This kind of twisting is not necessarily in and of itself a pose, although it would be impressive, but it's kind of like a fundamental part of a bunch of other poses. Right. Where if you're twisting yourself around or if you're moving yourself so that you can't tell what arm is, what you're twisting to some degree. And what's really fascinating to me about this is that each individual vertebra is rotating, and it's rotating to a degree that the average person can't do, obviously. But the. Just the idea of your spine, I would think of it as moving in one thing, but it's just like, dink, dink, dink, dink, dink. Each vertebra is moving itself. I think that's an amazing skill. Just that, like, if somebody walked up to me and said, I can twist all of my individual vertebra, can you? I would say, I don't think I can.
- [34:03]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. And I wouldn't know if I am.
- [34:05]
Josh Clark
Exactly. I know somebody's gonna write in and be like, don't be stupid, Josh. Everyone's vertebra trist individually. I get that. I guess I'm trying to get across that I'm impressed by contortionists. Okay.
- [34:17]
Chuck Bryant
For sure. Should we take another break?
- [34:19]
Josh Clark
I think we should.
- [34:20]
Chuck Bryant
All right. We're going to come back and talk about sort of the dark side of this right after this. And, Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.
- [34:49]
Josh Clark
Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?
- [34:53]
Chuck Bryant
Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.
- [35:00]
Josh Clark
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.
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Chuck Bryant
Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty.
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Josh Clark
Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.
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Chuck Bryant
Hey, everybody. Support for the show today comes from public. So it kind of feels like there's two types of investing platforms. You've got the old school brokerages that look like they were designed in, like, 1995. And then you have those other platforms, you know, the ones that feel less like investing and more like a casino.
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Josh Clark
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Chuck Bryant
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Josh Clark
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Chuck Bryant
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Josh Clark
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Chuck Bryant
That's right. It's hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, and this podcast brings you real conversations with CBS pharmacists, the health experts you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications may not mix well, what vaccines you should consider before a big trip, and even those questions that you were too embarrassed to say out loud.
- [36:47]
Josh Clark
Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Stuff, stuff,
- [37:17]
Chuck Bryant
Stuff, stuff. All right, I promised talk of the dark side, and that is to say there are some syndromes and some disorders that could lend itself to this. So I guess that's the dark side. The first thing we should clear up is that double jointed is not a thing. I know that's something that everyone kind of learned on the playground. Like, look, I'm double jointed, but what people or people don't have extra joints, what people are really talking about there is what's called hypermobility. And that is something that obviously if you are hypermobile, then you have a pretty good leg up to being a contortionist and they would diagnose that. Or I guess rather rate your hypermobility on what's called the beighton scale, and 9 is the highest on that scale. And if you're a contortionist, you're probably a nine.
- [38:12]
Josh Clark
Yeah, but also, aren't you a jerk if you make a scale and you just leave it at 9 rather than 10?
- [38:18]
Chuck Bryant
I just, I feel like there had to be a reason for that. But I didn't ask.
- [38:21]
Josh Clark
Well, you add a point for each thing that somebody can do, so it's things like can you Touch your thumb to your forearm. And I can do that very easily. I'm doing it right now over and over again. But you want to be able to do that with each hand. There's like, can you. Does your knee go back a certain degree behind itself? There's just a bunch of different ones. And you add one point for each limb that can do that. And I guess it just adds up to nine. He wasn't being a jerk. I was just kidding.
- [38:53]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. So I mentioned early on that genetics could play a part, and that's certainly true. If your parents were contortionists or your mom is a contortionist, you may be born more flexible, you may be born with hypermobility. But sometimes it does correlate, like I said, with the genetic conditions. The first one is EDS, Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. There's really 13 of those syndromes. So it means that if you're a contortionist, you may have one of these. Not always, but it's possible.
- [39:27]
Josh Clark
Yeah, I think it's sometimes called Cirque du Soleil disease. And there are like you said, 13 of them. They. Because they. The one thing they have in common is that they affect your connective tissue. So you can have one that makes you very hypermobile, very extendable, hyperextendable, because the connective tissue in your joints is not as, say, stiff as somebody else's. So you can go way beyond the normal range of motion. But then there's also other ones that keep you from being able to control your, your own breathing or your teeth fall out of your head because your gums are not connective enough to hold them in there. So there's a whole bunch of different ways that this can affect you. It just happens that a couple of the forms of eds or a couple of the symptoms of some types of EDS make you much more hyper. Hypermobile and hyperextensive.
- [40:17]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, for sure. Sometimes if you are hypermobile and you have the eds and that's one of, I guess, sort of the pluses, it can have some harmful traits. Although it can also help with skin hyperextensibility, like having really stretchy skin or maybe joint instability is obviously a bad one because that can lead to injury and dislocations and stuff like that. But we should point out that there doesn't seem to be any like weird high rate of injury for people who are involved in contortionism. And definitely not. Does it mean like you're gonna die younger? That's sort of a old wives tale, that contortionists die young, but that may have to do with the fact that it could be go along with some of these syndromes.
- [41:03]
Josh Clark
Yeah. I also wonder if it has to do with just going out of the public eye at a very young age, because in Mongolia, I think the average career of a contortionist goes from about age 6 to age 13. So I wonder if that just kind of helped develop that old wives tale over the years.
- [41:18]
Chuck Bryant
Oh, like people think they died and just aged out.
- [41:21]
Josh Clark
Exactly.
- [41:22]
Chuck Bryant
Oh, interesting.
- [41:23]
Josh Clark
One of the things that was always kind of obvious to me is that women are more flexible than men on the whole. There are actually distinct physiological reasons for this, one of which, I mean, body structure obviously, but hormones apparently affect your connective tissue and it's, I guess, strength or degree of flexibility. And so when women take progestin only birth control pills, they're more hypermobile than when they aren't on birth control pills. Isn't that fascinating?
- [41:58]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, for sure. And then, you know, jumping back to the syndromes, the second one is something called Marfan syndrome, which I feel like we've talked about at some point. I know, I've heard of it. But that's another genetic condition that makes that connective tissue like super flexible. In this case, it's about sort of like EDS. It's about 1 in 4,000 each of them are. And you know, this one can cause shortness of breath, heart palpitations, eye pain sometimes. And you know, those are the two main ones. But outside of this, there's an umbrella term called hypermobility spectrum disorder that kind of covers, you know, other things that lend itself to extreme flexibility.
- [42:41]
Josh Clark
Yes. And like, like you said, you do have advantages to this. So if you're a woman on a high level of hormones who has Marfan syndrome and maybe a high hypermobility spectrum disorder, you are probably a, like what I thought all contortionists were. Essentially a boring contortionist. There's challenges for all the advantages that it offers and then obviously the drawbacks and other ways that it affects your health. But as far as contortionism goes, it has just a suite of advantages for you. But there's also like drawbacks in that like you will have to probably do more strength training than the average person because again, your connective tissue is weaker than other people's, which makes you easier to flex or more flexible. And then also you might be more prone to injury. Like you were saying, you can dislocate way easier than other people.
- [43:32]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, but they've, you know, they've done studies and it's, it's. They haven't found it's any different than any other sort of, you know, professional athleticism.
- [43:40]
Josh Clark
Yeah.
- [43:40]
Chuck Bryant
They've even put people in the wonder machine and had in contort in an MRI and didn't see anything odd going on. So they basically said, it's all good, keep doing what you're doing.
- [43:53]
Josh Clark
Right. Nothing odd going on here.
- [43:55]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah.
- [43:57]
Josh Clark
So if you wanted to get into contorting, Chuck, where would you start? That's the question I pose to you now.
- [44:04]
Chuck Bryant
Let's start stretching immediately.
- [44:07]
Josh Clark
I think that's a good plan.
- [44:09]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. But you should probably start as a small kid. Like some people get into this as adults, but much, much, much more often. Like I would say 95% of the time you're starting out as a kid because you have a lot more, you know, you're flexible as a kid. You got more collagen fibers going on. Your muscles and joints don't have as much calcium at that point. So kids are just bendy.
- [44:31]
Josh Clark
They are super bendy. You also want to do a lot of strength training too. And you're going to like, if you want to be an actual professional contortionist, you're basically going to need to dedicate your life to it. You have to train every day for hours and hours a day. And that whole stretching thing is not just what you do to warm up. There's. It's actually part of your training is to stretch because there's a really interesting reflex called the myotatic reflex, the myostatic. But essentially, when you flex a muscle or when you press on a muscle, the reflex is that your muscle automatically contracts. It's how your body keeps you from falling down, essentially is this automatic reflex. The problem is that keeps your muscles from expanding or stretching further. So if you just stretch like normal, like if you do a hamstring stretch, your muscles are no longer than they were before you did that hamstring stretch. It feels better and they're looser, but they're not actually longer, which is really important in contortionism. So they've figured out that there are certain ways that you can do stretching. They're called proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation stretches. And essentially this is how you train your body to actually elongate the muscle fibers.
- [45:51]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. And you are well on your way at that point. You obviously gotta be drinking plenty of water too, because that's gonna keep that spinal support, keep those discs nice and cushiony. And that's Just a good. Obviously, when they tell you to drink water every day, there's lots of reasons for that, but that's one of them. Just as a regular old person walking around, not twisting themselves into shapes.
- [46:12]
Josh Clark
True, dad.
- [46:14]
Chuck Bryant
And they have found that obviously it gets better with time. When you start training, your muscles aren't gonna change that much in the first few weeks, but your neurons actually shift in their behavior, and your pain tolerance is gonna increase and your range of motion is gonna extend. And again, this is just for contortionism, but flexibility and stretching is kind of one of the keys to aging well. So this advice is for a lot of people.
- [46:44]
Josh Clark
Yeah. When I was looking up a lot of this stuff for contortionism, I ran into tons of videos that were just for that. Just to become a more flexible, average person. It is a super important. Agreed.
- [46:56]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah.
- [46:57]
Josh Clark
Okay. So if you want to go see a contortionist, there are videos on the web, but it's much, much different to see it in person. So, you know, maybe like you said, make an annual pilgrimage to Cirque du Soleil like your family, Chuck.
- [47:12]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah.
- [47:13]
Josh Clark
Worth it.
- [47:13]
Chuck Bryant
I think it's fun.
- [47:15]
Josh Clark
Well, since Chuck said he thinks it's fun, everybody, that means it's time for listener mail.
- [47:21]
Chuck Bryant
Guys, I'm going to call this no corrections, just compliments.
- [47:25]
Josh Clark
Nice.
- [47:25]
Chuck Bryant
That was in the subject line, so I'm always prone to read one of those. It was a nudge. Listening to Jane Stanford episode was a nudge to finally write in and thank you guys for what you do. And so what Sarah has done here was wrote a top, sort of a stuff you should know top 10, which means it's four things long, five things long, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. No, there's 10, but maybe I'll read, like six of them in true stuff you should know style.
- [47:52]
Josh Clark
Yeah.
- [47:53]
Chuck Bryant
So here we go with number 10. Thank you for your friendly banter at the beginning of the episode. Number nine, thank you for the witty episode names. Number eight, we always try to make the episode titles kind of fun.
- [48:05]
Josh Clark
Most of the time.
- [48:06]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah. Sometimes it's straightforward. You can't, you know, mock something like, well, I don't know, anything serious or sad. Number eight, thank you for the movie book cocktail barbecue rice recipe recommendations that you share. Sometimes topic specific and sometimes not. Number seven, thank you for your obvious desire to not show just kindness to different groups of people, but. Or be politically correct, but to actually be kind to people. All right, that's nice.
- [48:35]
Josh Clark
Yeah.
- [48:36]
Chuck Bryant
Number six, thank you for your openness about your own lives. Pets and relationships, which makes us feel like we can relate to you. It's a good one.
- [48:44]
Josh Clark
Yeah, for sure.
- [48:45]
Chuck Bryant
Number five, thank you for being surprisingly informative on unique topics, but also admitting that some of them are not as tantalizing parentheses. I'm looking at you hard sciences is what Sarah said. And can we all admit that the true crime and holiday extravaganzas are the best? So Sarah's into those.
- [49:02]
Josh Clark
Okay.
- [49:03]
Chuck Bryant
Number four, thank you for coordinating the intro outro jingle to the overall style of the episode. We need to thank one person and another whole set of people for that. Obviously Jerry is the one who's picking those out.
- [49:15]
Josh Clark
Sure.
- [49:16]
Chuck Bryant
So she's doing the coordination. But stuff you should know, listeners are the people who perform in those to begin with and record those.
- [49:23]
Josh Clark
Yeah, and Dave and Ben pick them out too. Jerry's the all time goat.
- [49:27]
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, for sure.
- [49:28]
Josh Clark
She's the all time greatest of all time.
- [49:30]
Chuck Bryant
That's right. Number three, thank you for the mispronunciations and the accents, especially in the Halloween episodes. Sarah really gets what we're trying to do here. Number two, thank you for creating something we can usually safely listen to with kids in the car and still be entertained or just have on in the background so we feel surrounded by friends. Number one, thanks to you both for coming to Madison, Wisconsin in April. Snack, second row seats. So, Sarah, I guess we'll be seeing you on the second row there. And if you haven't got tickets for Madison yet, we're or Akron or Chicago, there are still tickets available.
- [50:08]
Josh Clark
Yeah, it's stuffyoushouldknow.com on the tour button.
- [50:12]
Chuck Bryant
That's right.
- [50:12]
Josh Clark
That was really nice, Sarah. That was a great email. I'm glad you selected that one, Chuck. Yeah. Thank you very much for all that, Sarah. And thanks for listening as much as you obviously do. And if you want to be like Sarah and send us a clever, cool, neat email, we love those. You can send it off to stuff podcast@iheartradio.com Come on.
- [50:34]
Chuck Bryant
Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com Switch and now T Mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits plan features in Texas and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. When you think about protecting what matters, it's usually your family, your future, or the stability you've worked a lifetime to build, right? That's why Protective is here. They're on a mission to help more people achieve the sense of protection and financial security they deserve. Trusted by 32 million people, Protective is by your side with life insurance, retirement, employee benefit and asset protection solutions. If you're wondering what protecting your future could look like, check out protective.com to learn more. For more information and important disclosures, please visit protective.com kids pets life. Your sofa sees it all. But with a washable sofa, stains don't stand a chance. All of our sofa collections come with fully machine washable covers and cushions, making cleanup effortless. Liquid and stain resistant fabrics provide extra protection against everyday messes.
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