How the Kowloon Walled City Worked

Summary

Stuff You Should Know: “How the Kowloon Walled City Worked”

Podcast: Stuff You Should Know
Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Date: March 12, 2026
Episode Theme:
An in-depth exploration of the Kowloon Walled City, once considered the most densely populated settlement on earth. Josh and Chuck uncover its wild history, social dynamics, everyday life, and lasting influence on pop culture and urban studies.

---

Main Theme & Purpose

The episode dives into the history, architecture, social organization, and cultural legacy of the Kowloon Walled City in Hong Kong. The hosts aim to demystify this unique, chaotic urban phenomenon, examine how and why it existed, and discuss what became of it.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction & Setting the Scene

• The Kowloon Walled City is introduced as "the most densely populated place on planet Earth" (03:21).
• Comparisons made to New York’s East Village for scale: East Village = 43,000 people; Kowloon Walled City packed 33,000 into a much smaller space, equating to ~1.25 million people per square kilometer (03:52, 04:23, 04:36).

Visualizing the City

• The city’s density is hard to imagine—a compact cluster of buildings up to 14 stories tall, packed into a space like "three football fields" or "four rugby fields" (04:49).
• Buildings so interlinked they became "one single organism" (06:02).
• Popular comparisons to “Blade Runner” and “Ready Player One” aesthetics (07:05, 07:24).

Cultural & Pop Culture Influence

• Kowloon Walled City has inspired movies, games, and anime, notably “Blade Runner,” “Ready Player One”, and elements of video game design (07:50).
• “This is all to say it was densely packed. Have we gotten that across?” – Chuck (08:09).

Early History & Geopolitical Context

• Born from the First and Second Opium Wars (1839–42, 1856–60) over British trading rights and opium (09:13–10:36).
• Became a Chinese military outpost with thick walls, then a unique Chinese territory within British-controlled Hong Kong due to 1898 treaties (10:36–13:06).

Squatting, WWII, and the Aftermath

• After WWII, the Japanese destroyed the city’s walls for airport construction (Kai Tak Airport) (14:10).
• Post-war, refugees from mainland China, Christian missionaries, and squatters flocked there, seeing it as protected Chinese territory (15:41, 15:53).
• Frequent evictions by British authorities led to riots and quick returns by displaced residents (16:26).

Growth, Refugees & Anarchy (1950s–1960s)

• Chinese Civil War (late 1940s) leads to refugee influx and rapid, uncontrolled growth (19:52–20:27).
• Mainland Chinese authorities subtly supported residents as a political thorn in Britain’s side—Brits had "hands-off" approach (22:01, 22:50).
• Only enforced code: no building above 14 stories due to airport proximity (22:17).
• Organizational parallels to architectural "organic megastructure" theory—buildings literally supported each other (23:09).

Life Inside: Chaos, Community, and Survival

• Sunlight rarely reaches street level; premium paid for outward or courtyard-facing flats (23:09–24:18).
• Property values: A 280 sq. ft. flat with no sunlight, ~$28,000; outside-facing flat, $60,000 (24:18–24:59).
• Residents enjoyed low or no utility costs (electricity was often illicitly run in), freedom from business taxes, and could get larger/more equipped flats than public housing (25:00–26:21).
• Downsides: no organized trash pickup (garbage accumulated, tunnels formed under trash webs), sewage leaks, rampant drugs, vice industries (heroin, brothels), all under triad gang control (26:22–28:02).

Community Organization and Paradoxical Order

• Hundreds of legitimate businesses: machine shops, food factories (fish balls), and services—many served the larger Hong Kong area (28:02–28:50).
• Unregulated dentists/doctors: many trained/credentialed in China but not recognized in Hong Kong (29:46).
• Kindergartens, schools (often run by the Salvation Army), rooftop playgrounds, and pigeon racing—signs of normal life (29:46–30:50).
• Volunteer fire brigades, trash teams, welfare associations, and a single mail carrier for the city (30:50).

Governance: Triads and Self-Policing

• Triads provided both criminal rackets and enforced the “law” to avoid attracting outside police attention (31:48–33:29).
• Residents had a sense of pride and community, avoiding full romanticization or total vilification (33:17).

---

The Ending: Demolition, Legacy, and Aftermath

Late-Stage Developments & Eviction (1970s–1990s)

• From ~1970-1992, the city reached peak notoriety and density (37:00).
• Brits repeatedly attempted to evict and resettle residents, but political sensitivity and China’s growing cooperation delayed action (38:12–40:44).
• Secret negotiations in the 1980s led to plans for compensated removal and resettlement ahead of the 1997 British handover (40:44–41:39).
• Compensation offers reached ~$300,000 HKD for flats (41:39).
• Systematic eviction began in 1987, census conducted, and final residents were removed by 1992 (42:48–44:18).
• Demolition completed by 1994; today the site is a park, with only the Qing-era office building remaining (44:18–45:31).
• The unique footprint and aerial outline of the city persist, a physical and cultural “indelible print” on Hong Kong (44:18).

Cultural Afterlife

• The site now features a memorial park and scale model.
• Kowloon Walled City remains alive in film (“Bloodsport,” 46:11), games, urban studies, and as a metaphor for both dire poverty and ingenious self-organization (45:31–46:34).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Essentially created one single organism...that’s kind of how Kowloon Walled City came to be seen.” – Josh (06:02)
• “Looks like Ready Player One. Except it was real. This was an actual real place.” – Chuck (07:06)
• On origins: “Imagine if the Juarez Cartel went to war and forced Mexico to legalize their drugs— that’s essentially the first Opium War.” – Josh (10:05)
• “Buildings would sink...and start to tip, but they would tip over into the next one, and that one was tipping toward it, so they ended up calling like lovers’ buildings...” – Chuck (22:51)
• “If you lived in the Kowloon Walled City, you didn’t pay an electric bill...You literally ran the electric yourself.” – Chuck (25:50)
• “People just walked around with umbrellas because leaking sewage pipes overhead was normal.” – Josh (26:39)
• “People really made a life there. There were hundreds of legit businesses...It may look kind of crazy from the outside, but people really made a life there.” – Chuck (28:02)
• “It was anarchic in the sense of government oversight—but it wasn’t chaos. The Triads enforced their own order.” – Josh (31:48)
• “It was vilified and romanticized, and it really shouldn’t be either...it was multiple shades of gray.” – Josh (33:18)
• “There was a tremendous amount of pride among people living in Kowloon Walled City. It was their home.” – Josh (43:34)
• “Now there’s a park there in its place...a table-size scale model...but it’s still that same shape.” – Chuck (45:31)

---

Important Timestamps

• [03:21–04:49]: Describing the density and physical scale
• [06:02–07:24]: “One single organism” and pop culture comparisons
• [09:13–13:06]: Opium Wars & legal origins
• [15:41–16:26]: Postwar squatting, evictions, and riots
• [22:01–23:09]: Organic architecture, “lovers’ buildings”
• [25:50–26:21]: Life without utilities, law, or regulation
• [28:02–30:50]: Commerce, schools, and everyday life
• [31:48–33:29]: Triads and law/order
• [37:00–44:18]: Demolition, evictions, resident resistance
• [44:18–45:31]: Post-demolition, park, and memorialization

---

Conclusion

The story of the Kowloon Walled City is a tale of unintended urban evolution, political loopholes, and human adaptability. While its chaos and darkness were real, so were resilience, community, and ingenuity. Its memory remains alive in the city’s geography and in popular imagination—a fascinating example of what happens at the edges of law and society.

---

For further listening:
Check out “99% Invisible: Kowloon Walled City” (2012) for another deep dive.

Transcript

[Chuck Bryant]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC people keep asking about my 2020 resolutions. Sure, I've got the usual goals. Read more Hit the gym. Learn how to crochet maybe. But this year there's a new one at the top of my list. Get comfy. And that's where Bombas comes in. The all new Bombas sports socks are engineered with sports specific comfort for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding and all sport. And this year, you know, I really want to get out and hike in the woods a little more. And these socks are perfect for it. They're cushioned where I need it most, sweat wicking and loaded with other tech features to keep me comfy and locked in. So head over to bombas.com and use code SYSK for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S.com, code SYSKOUT.

[Josh Clark]

In business, there's no room for guesswork. Every shipment matters. Every deadline counts. When you're trying to keep operations running smoothly, the last thing you need is uncertainty.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. That's why reliability is the core of USPS Ground Advantage. From the moment your package is first scanned in, it moves through a secure nationwide network, aiding in a timely and accurate delivery.

[Josh Clark]

You get near real time tracking so you can keep up with your shipments. And with affordable upfront pricing, there are no hidden fees or surprise surcharges to throw off your cost sheets.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And that all adds up to predictable deliveries that you can depend on. Because knowing your logistics are handled lets you focus on everything else. Your customers, your team and the future that you're building. Just visit usps.com ground advantage to start shipping with confidence. USPS Ground Advantage. Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartradio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here as well. And this is stuff you should know. So let's get started talking about some stuff that you should know. And I guess we should do our semi annual explanation, Chuck, that the title of our podcast is never intended to make you feel bad because you don't know something. It's not that we think you should know this already. We're saying we find this really interesting and we want to share it with you. Hence we want you to know about it. You should know about this because it's interesting and we want to tell you about it, not that you should already know about it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's the second one. We just did that in listener mail like two weeks ago.

[Josh Clark]

I think we should do it every week. I'm going to start every podcast with that from now on. Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's a great way to retain listeners, I think for sure.

[Josh Clark]

Man. You should see the matcha I'm drinking right now. It's like mash brown, green. It's disgusting. I don't know what's wrong with it, but I got to drink it anyway.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, does it not taste good either?

[Josh Clark]

Not really. It's pretty bitter.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe that matcha's turned, bro.

[Josh Clark]

But does it. It was powder. Does matcha turn? Because if so, I'm drinking turned matcha for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, well, we'll do a short stuff can of powder turn as the powder. But no, we're not gonna do that today. Cause we're talking about the Kowloon Walled City in Hong Kong, which is the most. Well, at one time was the most densely populated place on planet Earth. And just to give you. If you've ever been to New York City, if you've ever traveled to the East Village, one of my favorite villages.

[Josh Clark]

That's where I got engaged.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, Right there at the museum. Which one? New museum.

[Josh Clark]

New museum, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not the Whitney. No, that is the most. And it doesn't feel like it when you're there, but the East Village is the most densely neighborhood in New York City. And they have about 43,000 people living in the East Village. The Kowloon Walled City is about the size of the East Village geographically. But there are one point. Yeah, that's why they use the East Village in all the comps. 1.25 million people living there, as opposed to 43,000.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, yes, exactly. But there were really only 33,000 people. But if you spread it all out over a square kilometer, you would have that many people to equal that density, Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

So that's. I wanted to make sure to take that and just screw it up. The reason I did that is because it's not the same size. Kowloon Walled City. Is like a fraction of the size of the square kilometer.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's I think like a little over three football fields.

[Josh Clark]

I saw that. I also saw four, I also saw four rugby fields or large soccer pitches. So all those put together, imagine 33,000 people standing on there. Like they'd literally have to be standing on one another's shoulders. Who knows how many people deep it would be. And so this incredibly compact area of a few football fields or rugby or soccer pitches held buildings right up against each other that went all the way up to 14 stories tall. And if you went into this place, you would be like, I, I, this is like nowhere I've ever been in the world. And you would be right, because there was nowhere in the world like the Kowloon Walled city from about 1970 to 1990ish.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Like if you have a, if you have a fairly smallish lot that your house is on, let's say have a single family house and it's on like maybe a half an acre if you're lucky. Like you're doing pretty great. That's a great life. This is a little more than six and a half acres. And there were 500 buildings packed in there that nuts.

[Josh Clark]

Like even with those mind blowing stats, it's like, go and look. There's a very famous photograph from I think a 1989 or 1990 National Geographic overhead that just gets it gets it all across perfectly. You just look at it and you're like, that doesn't even look like a village or a city. It looks like a single thing. And a lot of people have made that point that these buildings were so close together, they were so interconnected, people just built haphazard bridges between one building and another so they didn't have to go down 14 stories and then back up. That essentially created one single organism that, that's kind of how Kowloon Walled City came to be seen when it reached its fully developed peak.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it had to be the inspiration behind the living quarters. And Ready Player one. If you've ever seen that movie or read the book, when I saw pictures of Kowloon Walt City for the first time, I was like, oh, looks like Ready Player one.

[Josh Clark]

Oh really?

[Chuck Bryant]

Except it was real. This was an actual real place. So we encourage you at some point when it's safe to do so to look it up because the picture is worth a thousand words. And we spent probably a couple of thousand trying to describe it.

[Josh Clark]

The thing that really rings home, I guess to me.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

Comparing it to Blade Runner. Like, especially in Blade Runner, when Harrison Ford is eating noodles and Edward James almost comes up to take him away. Like, just that kind of look. Like the fluorescent light. Everything's packed together as people everywhere. Like, that's what it looked like. Like, there's no way that the designers of Blade Runner did not. Were not inspired by Kowloon Walled City. I refuse to believe it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, and as we'll see, or I guess I could say it now, there have been lots of video games and movies that were based either on or very much patterned after this. Look, one of the black ops games, this movie about a stray cat. Or I'm sorry, a video game about a stray cat. That may be a movie at some

[Josh Clark]

point, but, yeah, I think it was.

[Chuck Bryant]

This is all to say it was densely packed. Have we gotten that across?

[Josh Clark]

What was that movie that I told you to watch about the cat? The animated movie about the cat, and then you said, oh, I already saw it in theaters. Was it called Flow?

[Chuck Bryant]

I think that was Flow. That was so, so great.

[Josh Clark]

God, that was such a good movie. I encourage everybody to go watch it. It's like almost 16 or 8 bit graphic looking. It's very bitmapped on purpose. And it really does a great job of making it otherworldly.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it won the Oscar. And it looks that way because a dude made it in his apartment.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, man, that makes it even better. That is such an amazing movie.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's really great.

[Josh Clark]

The other movie that sticks out for me when I think of Kowloon Walled City is the Merchant Ivory movie Howards End.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. Or Far and Away with Nicole Kidman. Tom Cruise. That one.

[Josh Clark]

I saw that in the theater for some reason. Did you really?

[Chuck Bryant]

That's weird.

[Josh Clark]

I also saw Eyes Wide Shut in the theater, and I knew all about it going into it. And so it was my birthday, so I made my whole family go watch it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, that's very fun. Into that story.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right. So we need to go back in history, though, if we want to talk about how this city came to be. And in order to do that, we need to go back to the first Opium War, which was a few years between 1839 and 42, where there was a trade dispute between Imperial China and Britain, wherein Britain was like, hey, we love shipping in this opium from India to your addicted citizens. And China was like, no, we like selling them opium ourselves. And so let's go to war over that.

[Josh Clark]

I think actually China was. Was executing addicts in the street. They were on a huge campaign to eradicate opium addiction from their population. And Britain was like, we're going to keep them addicted because we're making tons of cash off of that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, for sure. And this is after China had made a ton of money shipping tea. So there were trade relations already, you know, sort of ensconced.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And Britain couldn't get enough of China's tea. But China was like, we don't really want too much of your stuff, except our population wants the opium you're smuggling in. So imagine if like the Juarez Cartel, like Mexico is like, nope, we don't want you supplying our population with, with drugs. And the Juarez Cartel is like, oh, yeah, we're going to war with you and we're going to win. And now we have a treaty saying that we can sell your population drugs and you can't do anything about it. That was essentially the first Opium War, and there was even a second Opium War, the sequel.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. But another important thing came out of the first Opium War, which was China was forced to cede some land on Hong Kong, which wasn't a big bustling place at that point. Not much of anything at that point. And in order to sort of be close to them and sort of keep an eye on what's going over there, the Qing Dynasty said, all right, we have a military installation just across the water from Hong Kong on the Kowloon Peninsula and over the Kowloon Bay. And let's build a big wall there and just like fortify this little military installation. So they built a wall 15ft thick, 13ft high. It housed about 150 soldiers. And that's where the name Kowloon Walled City came from. From that wall.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And today's modern Hong Kong is populated mostly on the Kowloon Peninsula, but at the time it was the opposite. Hong Kong island was the population. And this Kowloon place was just a little nowhere's ville essentially. And so China was like, yeah, we're going to keep this, we're going to keep it an eye on the Brits like this. And after, I guess the second Opium War led to the second Convention of Peking, where both the first Opium War and the second one found China just giving into tons of demands from the Brits, from the Americans, from, I think the French, who were all like, you have to open your markets to us because we want money from you guys. And one of the things that came out of it was the very famous 99 year lease that the Brits had on Hong Kong from China, which is why the UK administered Hong Kong for almost 100 years, essentially throughout the 20th century.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So the other thing, land wise, that came out of that second Opium War, was they ceded all of Hong Kong island, the entire Kowloon Peninsula, to the Brits. But keep in mind they still have this walled city kind of right there, nearest to the coast, within that territory. And so there was a little, I guess, a little loophole that they. I don't know if they snuck it in there, but it was clearly written. But there was a clause in there basically that said, it's so confusing, I'm not even gonna read it. But the result was this weird small walled city within this territory that Britain now controls was to stay there and

[Josh Clark]

to stay that way and to stay Chinese territory. So this little tiny 6 acre, 3 rugby pitch patch of land would be Chinese sovereign land in this British territory, essentially, is what just got set up from the 1898 treaty.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so it's a weird situation, but that's what they're left with. Right after the British takeover there, some Christian missionaries went in. It started to get populated. The walled city did. They built a church. Some pig farmers came in, they started squatting. People started squatting because, you know, it was protected by this great, you know, not. I'm sorry, not the Great Wall. A great wall. That was when we were in Belize on vacation. We went up a Rio Grande. Emily kept saying, you go up the Rio Grande to get to the ocean. And I was like, I don't think it's the Rio Grande. And it was. It was Rio Grande. But so the joke for the rest of the trip was, we're going up a Rio Grande.

[Josh Clark]

Very cute.

[Chuck Bryant]

So there was a great wall. So that attracted squatters.

[Josh Clark]

It did. And one of the reasons why is because there was this idea that, okay, this is Chinese territory. So that was already kind of a thought in people's head that there weren't enough people there. And this Christian missionary church kind of were almost keeping an eye on things as far as the Brits administering Hong Kong were concerned. So they weren't paying much attention to it. And then World War II came along and Japan occupied big swaths of China, as we talked about in our unit 731 episode. And one of those swaths was the peninsula, the Kowloon Peninsula. And they tore down those thick, thick granite walls and they used it to build out Kai Tak Airport. And I think it was already there. It was kind of like an airfield or landing strip, and they turned it into like an actual airport. And for Many, many years. For decades, Kai Tak Airport was the airport that you flew into when you flew to Hong Kong.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And it's. You know, they need a building material. I love repurposing building materials.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

So when I heard that part, I was like, that's great. They don't need that wall there anyway, because it looks like it had a wall filter on it when you looked at it.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know, that was kind of the funny thing.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Which is ironic because it looks like they populated that city with a wall and then took the wall down.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

But it was just so. I mean, everyone knew how far out you could build, so it just kind of ended up looking that way.

[Josh Clark]

Right? It was. It was. And it was very densely populated.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's what I've heard.

[Josh Clark]

So after World War II, a couple of things happened geopolitically that kind of gave rise to the Kowloon Walled City. The name stuck even though it didn't have the walls.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

But a lot of the. The people who were refugees during the war made their way down to the Kowloon Peninsula, and they were like, we're not Brits. We're Chinese, so we're going to start squatting here. And the Brits were like, no, you know, you're not squatting here. This is not Chinese. It's ours. It's part of Hong Kong. We basically own Hong Kong right now. So get out. And they evicted all the squatters in 1948. By this time, it had been. There were, like, thousands of them. So it was a really big deal. And then the squatters just came back next week.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. They came back the next week. They tried to kick him out again, and there was a riot this time. And I feel like that's a pretty good time for our first break.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, we'll be right back.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public. If you look at your investing app, what do you see? An Interface stuck in 1997 or something that looks modern but feels more like a casino than a place to build wealth. Public is different. It's the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build your portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto. It's all there. But what really makes Public different is the technology behind it. Imagine starting your day with an AI summarized market briefing, getting clear summaries of earnings calls the moment they end. Or turning any idea into an investable index just by typing a prompt. This is what investing looks like when the tools finally catch up. Go to public.com and earn a 1% uncapped match when you transfer your portfolio. Investing for those who take It Seriously Ad paid for by Public Holdings Brokerage Services by Public Investing Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor Crypto Services by ZeroHash all investing involves risk of loss. See complete [e-mail] disclosures

[Josh Clark]

hey everybody, get this. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands. Apart from other ad buys.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, even company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience.

[Josh Clark]

Yep, that's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B ROAS of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them.

[Chuck Bryant]

And get this, if you spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads, you get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.comSYSK that's LinkedIn.comSYSK terms and conditions. Hey everyone, we want to talk to you a little bit about Wayfair. Because no matter what your aesthetic, whether it's mid century modern, farmhouse, contemporary, eclectic, it doesn't matter because Wayfair is going to have something for you.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, Wayfair, they've got just what you need. And it's convenient too because they have a ton of different stuff to choose from. A huge selection of home decor items and it's easy to find exactly what's right for you with their amazing search engine.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. Whether you're starting a home project, you need like furniture upgrades or accent pieces or functional decor. Or if you're just doing a spring refresh and you need some outdoor furniture or patio decor, maybe lighter bedding, Wayfair has got it all.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. And thousands of five star reviews help you shop with confidence. So find furniture, decor and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now and shop all things home. That's W A Y-F-A-I R.com Wayfair every style, every home.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so we're back. Kowloon Walled city without the wall is being populated. They're getting kicked out. They keep coming back. There was a Chinese civil war following World War II, so that was one reason that people between the Communists and the Nationalist Party and that was one reason people were starting to get the heck out of in there, I guess. And in 1949 the Communists won. They declared the People's Republic of China. And so that's when in the 1950s, things really kicked off with refugees trying to get in there and build up, up, up.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And if you were a refugee from China, that meant you were probably a nationalist or at the very least weren't a communist and you just needed to get out of there. But you were, as far as you were concerned, better off living on this tiny patch of Chinese land because you still consider yourself a Chinese national than you were trying to assimilate into this British administered colony that was really Chinese. But the Brits didn't treat it like that. Right. And so these people, these refugees became like this, almost like freedom fighters. And even the ccp, the Chinese Communist government, they would, they were, they were promoting them. They would give them supplies, sometimes they would give them food, sometimes they would send emissaries down that would talk them up and be like, keep fighting the good fight, you know, we've got your back. And essentially anytime the Brits tried to make a move on these residents of Kowloon Walled City, China would step in and be like, that is Chinese territory. So no matter what these people did, the Brits hands were tied. And the whole reason why was not that China cared about them, but it was a thorn in Great Britain side. There was this crazy weird area that they did not have control over in the middle of this colony that they had taken from China. And China took every opportunity to basically twist that thorn in their side. And they used every, every time that the people of Kowloon were put upon as a chance to step in and flex their, whatever authority they did have in the area still.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So as a result of all this, the Brits were like, I don't even care anymore. Like this is such a pain. In the 50s and 60s they took a real hands off approach and just kind of let what happened there happened there. And that led to a real influx of people and then that housing boom they, they didn't have. It looks like the only building code they have was you can't build anything over 14 stories tall because it's right there next to the airport and you don't want to get a wing through your living room one day. So that was the only building code around, certainly the only one honored because it was kind of anything goes inside there. And what we ended up with, you mentioned an organic structure. It was ended up called by architects an organic megastructure.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Because these buildings would sink down into their foundation and start to tip. But they would tip over into the next one, and that one was tipping toward it. So they ended up calling like lovers buildings because at the top they were all kind of angled in and touching one another. And it's sort of sweet if you think about it.

[Josh Clark]

It is. It is kind of sweet. It was also, at the same time, weirdly, architects in like the 50s and 60s, there was kind of like a avant garde school of thought about just incredibly dense. Yeah, like community building. And this is essentially a natural experiment. And it kind of showed that a lot of those theories held up kind of like the buildings held one another up. That people could just build out what they needed in ways that they needed in that spaces that were livable without having to be, you know, spread out without having to have government oversight and all that kind of stuff too. Those buildings, especially when they were lovers buildings, pressed up against one another, they became so dense that sunlight would not penetrate the street level. In a lot of cases, in most cases, actually, like, one of the premiums for a flat in the Kowloon walled city was one that was outward facing or faced on the internal courtyard because they had sun exposure. Most of the apartments, businesses, dwellings, streets, alleys in Kowloon Walled City were not exposed to sunlight at any point in the day.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And you sent this pretty good little YouTube. It was like 15, 20 minutes long about this walled city. That breaks it down. And at one point I paused it because they had. I was wondering what these things cost, and I don't know what year this was that they gave us these numbers from, but a 280 square foot flat cost 28,000American dollars. And if you're thinking, all right, that 280, 28,000, that kind of makes sense. But that was without sunlight. I think the exterior facing 450 square foot flat was $60,000.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And I think that was in the 60s or 70s from a paper I saw.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

But still, one of the things I saw is that a reason that this was attractive to a lot of people, because over time, the place didn't just attract Chinese nationalists and refugees from China. It attracted people who are like, oh, there's these really cheap living in here. You could get a flat that was about double the square footage of a, like a government flat, like a council flat, public housing, essentially, you'd call it. And it had a kitchen and a bathroom, and those were not guaranteed in the public housing. Flats that you would maybe even pay the same or more for. So there was like real incentive to move into this place. If you didn't care about living cheek to jowl with your neighbors amid trash and abandoned appliances and all sorts of other crazy stuff.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, well, there were some benefits though. If you lived in the Kowloon walled City, you didn't pay an electric bill, almost certainly because you probably just like literally ran the electric yourself from the public utilities. There was all manner of plumbing and wiring routed from the outside coming in into the walled city. So these buildings were wrapped in water pipes and sewage lines and conduit running electricity. If you were a business, you weren't paying any kind of business taxes.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

So that was a big plus. But you didn't have stuff like trash pickup. And you had to deal with things like heroin dealers and brothels and the triad gang kind of running the show, which, you know, it was mostly bad, but they also did some things to keep the place up.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, a good example that I saw of what life was like in this that made it like people just got used to this stuff and it was every day was that you would, when you were walking on street level, you would carry an umbrella because of those exposed pipes, it would be leaking on you. But some of those pipes were also sewage pipes. So those would be dripping and leaking too, because there was no code that was being followed. It was like, I need a sewage outlet coming out of my house here, so I'm just going to run this pipe right here and that's that. So people just walked around with umbrellas on street level. Another one that I saw that people just got used to is that a lot of the street level areas were tunnels. And the reason that they were tunnels is because overhead there was a mesh net that had been laid between buildings to catch the trash that people just threw out of their windows. And the reason that they put the mesh netting was because if they didn't, then you wouldn't be able to get into the ground floor of any of the buildings because they would be so covered up with trash. And so these impromptu alleys developed as tresh built overhead. And the walls of the first floor of these buildings were exposed on either side. People just got used to this. Like this was just what life was like in Kowloon. And in some ways it wasn't that much worse, if at all, than some of the other poverty stricken areas of Hong Kong at the time.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, like if you're wondering like why do people even live there or stay there, it's for exactly that reason. You know, it wasn't so different from other poor places that it would have been A big, like, life improvement to move. And this was their home. It may look kind of, kind of crazy from the outside, but people really made a life there. There were hundreds of legit businesses that operated there. There was machine shops. There were a lot of machine shops as far as industry goes and metal fabrication. And then food was a big one. There were lots of food factories. And in that documentary they said, you know, there was always a feeling that, like, some of the food that was made there was in, on the plates and in the bowls of some really high class restaurants surrounding them.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, the fish balls. So they were unregulated fish balls made in highly unsanitary conditions that just made it out of the Kowloon Walled City. Because that's another thing too. A lot of people look at this from the outside and think, like, this is completely isolated from the rest of Hong Kong. Absolutely untrue. Those businesses were exporting out of the city into the rest of Hong Kong. People were coming from outside of the city into the city for things like dentists and doctors, who are all unlicensed, unregulated, which at first blush you're just like, oh, my God, why would you go to an unlicensed dentist? Well, they were already trained and licensed in China, but when they went to Hong Kong, those credentials didn't transfer over. And so rather than pay and become a licensed dentist in Hong Kong under British rule, they just set up in Kowloon Walled City and set up practice without needing a license.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, and it was cheaper, way cheaper. There were schools. If you're like, did they even function as a regular society? They actually for sure did. There were kindergartens, there were schools. A lot of times it was like the Salvation army or somebody kind of running these things. If you were like, what about a playground or something like that? Some of these rooftops had playground equipment where kids could go. Pigeon racing was a big thing. So there were gardens on the roofs, the ones that didn't have trash on them. And they were also keeping these racing pigeons up there. And there was actually some order. It wasn't just like, you might picture, like constant chaos or something like that. It was more like something you see out of Blade Runner. Just a really densely populated city, like actually functioning. They had volunteer fire brigades. They didn't have municipal trash collection, and there was trash all over the place. But they tried. They had volunteer trash collection teams. They had night watch teams. There was a single mail delivery person delivering to the entire city. So they were functioning.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, there was officially the neighborhood welfare Association. If you bought or sold a flat, the neighborhood welfare association would witness it. So it was very much legal. And then the Triads you mentioned, they were running and they were manufacturing and selling heroin out of the city. They were running protection rackets and brothels and child prostitutes and all sorts of terrible stuff. And then simultaneously, they were also providing the law and order that did exist. Like, it was not just chaotic anarchy. It was anarchic in the. In the sense of, like, government regulation and oversight, like, you know, building codes and stuff. But it's not like you just walked over your neighbor's house and killed them and took their stuff and that was that. Like, there was law in order. And it was the. The rule of the triads, who essentially kept people from, I guess, descending into chaos, if that was even a possibility.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, they didn't want. It's kind of the rule of the street. They didn't want real authorities coming in there. And if it got so bad, that would eventually happen. It was. I mean, I remember when my friend bought his first house in Atlanta in the mid-90s in a pretty rough neighborhood. Like, he got his house broken into and got some stuff stolen. And the guy that was the big, like, drug dealer dude in the neighborhood brought his stuff back.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

And, like, knocked on his door and said, here's your guitar. Here's your amp. Here's your stuff. And he was like, you know, I think the unspoken thing was, like, he doesn't want the cops in there.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

So he's trying to keep his guys from doing dumb stuff like that to attract attention.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, so, yeah, perfect analogy. That's exactly what the Triads were doing in there. Um, and so, yeah, if you. If you just, you know, if you wanted to. To do heroin or something, I think it was largely smoked. You would come from outside Kowloon Walled City. Maybe if you liked heroin so much, you'd stick around and move there. But at the same time, if you were just some elderly person looking for a cheap place to stay that was willing to live in an incredibly dense place, like, there was. There was room for you there, too. So it was a really. I saw that it was vilified and romanticized, and it really shouldn't be either. Neither of those should be done to it. It was just like every other place, multiple shades of gray. It was just the.

[Chuck Bryant]

Literally the.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. It's just that the extremes on either side are so fascinating, especially when they. They. The whole spectrum is viewed that. That. That's what made Kowloon City so Remarkable.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. I think that's a great time for a second break and we're going to talk about what happened in Kowloon City right after this. Hey, everybody. Support for the show today comes from public. So it kind of feels like there's two types of investing platforms. You've got the old school brokerages that look like they were designed in like 1995. And then you have those other platforms, you know, the ones that feel less like investing and more like a casino.

[Josh Clark]

Public is neither. It's the investing platform for people who actually take this stuff seriously. You know, people who are serious about building their wealth. Because on public, you can build a portfolio of stocks, options, bonds, crypto without all the bugs or the confetti.

[Chuck Bryant]

Retirement accounts. Yep. High yield cash. Of course. They even have direct indexing. Honestly, this is what an investing platform should look like. Modern design, simple to use, and customer support that actually cares.

[Josh Clark]

Go to public.comsysk and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.comsysk add paid for by Public

[Chuck Bryant]

Holdings Brokerage Services by public investing member FINRA SIPC advisory services by public advisors SEC registered advisor crypto services by ZeroHash. All investing involves risk of loss. See complete [e-mail] disclosures

[Josh Clark]

hey everybody, get this. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands. Apart from other ad buys.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. You can target your buyers by job title industry, company role, seniority skills, even company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience.

[Josh Clark]

Yep, that's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B ROAS of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them.

[Chuck Bryant]

And get this. If you spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads, you get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com sysk that's LinkedIn.com sy Terms and Conditions apply.

[Josh Clark]

This episode is brought to you by Audi. We all know that feeling. A change of plans, an unexpected curve, a new opportunity. Instead of overthinking, what if you just said yes?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. With the all new Audi Q3, the answer is easy. The Q3 is made for the yes life. With the power and room to handle whatever pops up.

[Josh Clark]

Yes to adventure. Yes to escape. Yes to right now. Because saying yes without hesitation, that's real luxury.

[Chuck Bryant]

The all new Audi Q3, made for the yes life. Learn more at audiusa.com.

[Josh Clark]

Chuck we're back. And I just want to say before I forget again, 99% invisible, of course, did an amazing episode. Oh, of course they did on this. Back in 2012.

[Chuck Bryant]

So the great Roman Mars.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And you could be like, oh, that's not what Josh and Chuck said. They said something different. Just go with Roman Mars interpretation.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I just weirdly texted Roman the other day or yesterday for the first time in a long, long time.

[Josh Clark]

Like, weirdly you said something weird?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, just weird that you brought him up. That's like twice that he's been mentioned in my life. Twice in a couple of days. And it had been a while and he didn't text me back yet. Come on, Roman.

[Josh Clark]

Seriously, Roman, get your act together. So, yeah. So, Kylee, in Walled City, it's going along most of the stuff we've just talked about, the 14 story buildings, lovers, buildings pressed up against one another, the trash tunnels, all that stuff is really taking place from about 1970 to, say, 1990. 92. Okay. That's like the. The peak of the notoriety and infamy and the. Just the. The way that people think of Kowloon Walled City. It was basically between those decades, right? And even before then, even before there were 14 story buildings astonishingly going up in this. In the city, the Brits were like, we really hate that Kowloon Walled City is sitting there. It's just like a thumb in our eye that the Chinese just keep. Keep rubbing over and over again. We really want to get rid of it. But their. Their hands were tied, essentially. Despite that, they. They tried a bunch of different ideas to try to get people out of Kowloon Walled City so they could tear it down.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was a toe in their tee.

[Josh Clark]

Perfect. Man, you are on fire today.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, can you imagine anything worse?

[Josh Clark]

A foot in your Brunswick stew, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, wow.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. That one's the day one and everything. Good.

[Chuck Bryant]

Nice callback. All right, so if you don't know what that is, everybody, that's going to be a little Easter egg for you one day. Deep in the stuff you should know archives.

[Josh Clark]

Thank you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Deep in a pot of Brunswick Stewart. All right, in 1962, the Brits started, or, I'm sorry, they completed construction on a high rise public housing complex called the Tung Tao Estate. And they're like, all right, everybody, look what we built for you. Residents of Kowloon Walled City, get out of there. Come on over here. We want to resettle you. This is much nicer. Authorities showed up. They had notices that they posted and handed people, and they were met with the Kowloon Walled City Anti Demolition and anti Removal Committee who said no thanks, we want to stay here.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And so they said, you know what, we're going to tell China on you essentially. And China stepped in and was like no guys, you're not going to do that. These people have a right to live here. This is quote a gross violation of China's sovereignty and everybody should protest and strike. And they did. And the cops came in and there were clashes and it became essentially an international scandal that the Brits were picking on these poor people who were squatting in this poor area in a colony the Brits were administering. It was not a very good look. So the Brits backed off and it was another chance for China to be like haha, we are really using Kowloon Walled City to the maximum effect. So the Brits who still wanted to tear this down, they went back to the drawing board.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. But what they knew they had was this 99 year lease signed in 1898. So you do the math. 1997 was that year on the horizon, just sort of sitting out there.

[Josh Clark]

I would have said 98.

[Chuck Bryant]

And the Brits, they knew this date was coming, China knew this date was coming. And they were like all right. China was like we've been making hemming and hawing about this thing being sovereign, like do we really want this back in 1997? Do we want to inherit this thing? And on the Brit side they were like aha, like we know what they're thinking over there, they don't want to really inherit this thing either.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So they started some sort of more legitimate like agreeing with one another as far as talks go, as early as like 1986 when China was like maybe we should actually talk this over now.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And these were secret talks. Right. So for China this city had outlived its political usefulness and I guess just as a, I mean they wanted to tear it down so badly that the Brits were willing to do this for China shortly before the handover in 1997. And so what they came up with is that residents would be offered financial compensation. Pretty good compensation too, I think about $300,000 for a flat that again they'd spent maybe $30,000 on 20 years before they would be moved into a high rise public housing unit. They're basically all going to be resettled into a nicer life gratis with a little spending money.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. So finally on January 14th, 1987 they got 360 staff members from the clearance and squatter control from Hong Kong, and they came down to Kowloon City and they were like, hey, we need to get a. We need to know how many people are here. We need to know how many people are resettling. So we need an actual census. Like, no one has a clue. We've been guessing how many people live here based on ordinary numbers, and this is an ordinary place. So they cordoned off all 83 entrances and exits to the city, went door to door and did a census and counted people up and said, hey, this is the plan moving forward. You're gonna be resettled. And there wasn't a riot this time. They were still thinking like, oh, yeah, we're gonna tell China on you. Cause they didn't know those secret talks had been going on. This time it was different. And the Chinese Foreign Ministry finally stepped up and in a formal statement, said, in so many words, yeah, the time has come, and we're giving this over to the British. They're gonna rid this place of its residences. And it was nice while it lasted.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So that was 1987, you said. It wasn't until 94 that Kowloon walled City was finally fully demolished. And it wasn't until two years before that that the last resident was finally evicted. There was a few. There were a few holdouts. A lot of people were like, okay, I'll take 300 grand and a new place to live. There were some holdouts because I don't probably people have guessed this, but we didn't say it overtly. There was a tremendous amount of pride among people living in Kowloon Walled City. It was their home. Yes. And it was a very special and unique home. And they were not going to find that anywhere else on earth. And they knew it. And so a lot of them were holdouts for a very long time and did not want to go.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And I imagine it attracted. Just like the initial attraction in the 50s and 60s, people that didn't want to be under, like, the thumb of a government was still sort of a sentiment there. They didn't want to assimilate to the larger sort of system because they had a system that they felt worked for them in whatever way that was. So I have a lot of respect for the people that were like, no, I don't want to leave. You can't kick me out of my home. But like you said, sadly, the last person was evicted in 1992. There were people burning Union Jacks, setting off homemade firecrackers and stuff. A few people Actually physically battled the cops a little bit, but it wasn't, you know, it was a pretty small resistance. And In July of 92, the last person left.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. So there's nothing really left of Kowloon Walled City. It's just the footprint. This footprint has been around for hundreds of years and it will not go away. It's an indelible print on Hong Kong as a town, as an area on the Kowloon Peninsula. And even the. The Kai Tak airport is gone now. They've moved the airport further away from the city center because like you said, they had to be very careful descending. We've talked about it before, I don't remember maybe like our air traffic control episode or something. Yeah, probably where like you basically had to clear the 14 story Walled City and then suddenly dropped to hit the Runway. It was really not well planned because there wasn't really a plan. So they moved the airport, they got rid of Kowloon Walled City and now there's a park there in its place.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And I think they didn't that documentary say that original religious building is still there. It's like the only thing that's left from the early days.

[Josh Clark]

It was the office of the administrator of the court. And yes, it's still there. They preserved it in the Kowloon Walled City. That was what that courtyard was. It was buil around that original office from the, I think the Qing Dynasty.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that was it. That's the only thing from the early days that's left. It's like you said, it's a green space, there's ponds, it's quite lovely. They do have a table size scale model of what was there. But yeah, it's still that same shape. Like if you do aerial shots, they really stuck to their parameters with the city once the walls were gone and with this park. Cause it's the exact same shape still. And you know, like we mentioned, it's been in a ton of. Either directly sort of been the setting for movies like in Bloodsport from Jean Claude Van Damme or been like heavily inspired by what the sort of the look they were going after in video games and films.

[Josh Clark]

I don't care what you say, Bloodsport was a good movie.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know what? I didn't see a single Jean Claude Van Damme movie.

[Josh Clark]

I saw a time I should. I'll tell you this off of. Okay. But anyway, I finally saw Bloodsport when I was not like a couple of years ago and I was like, wow, this movie is actually really good.

[Chuck Bryant]

I gotta check it out.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, you should check it out. That's what I'm saying.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's my new deal. Is Jean Claude all the way.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Where's he been?

[Josh Clark]

Remember he had like a podcast or a TV show or something for a little while? Of course, Yeah, I think he did. Or it was.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did he interview celebrities?

[Josh Clark]

It was a. No, I'm sorry. It was like a TV show where it was a mockumentary or pseudo reality where he played himself. But Jean Claude Van Damme actually was a spy in real life or something like that.

[Chuck Bryant]

I haven't heard of that.

[Josh Clark]

I think it was short lived. All right, well, since Chuck has dedicated himself to watching Jean Claude Van Damme movies all the time, that means obviously it's time for listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so this is a rare rebut to a listener mail. So a listener writing in about another listener mail. Because we had our Irish friend write in and point out that we were sort of engaging in Irish erasure.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

So. Hey, guys. While the emailer was correct that Shackleton was born in County Kildare, Shackleton himself would have considered himself British. He was born in Ireland while it was under British rule and moved to Great Britain when he was 10. He served in the British army and was awarded many British honors. I myself am a proud Irishman, but I don't think you were wrong in calling him British.

[Josh Clark]

Wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm happy to accept that he was correct if there was a quote which shows that he considered himself Irish. Ireland and nationality is always a tricky subject. I hold a UK driver's license and an Irish passport. I have one child technically born in the UK and one born in Ireland with just 80 miles between the hospitals and them both being on the same island. Keep up the good work, guys. Been listening for years and I love the show. That is from Jamie Finnegan. And we're not going to wade into this any further, Jamie, because I know that stuff is very tricky.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So we have read the original email and now the rebuttal and we're going to leave it to you guys to work it out.

[Josh Clark]

Nice. I think that's a great idea. And that was from Jamie, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes, it is.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, well, thanks a lot, Jamie. And if you want to be like Jamie, you can send us an email too. Send it off to Stuff. Podcastheartradio.com

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartradio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartradio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite show.

[Josh Clark]

Foreign. We're always talking about how things work. And one thing that keeps your car running smoothly is regular oil changes. But life's busy, and the oil light always comes on at the worst time. Well, that's why there's Take five oil change. It doesn't just save time, it gives you control of your day back. You pull in. Stay in your car, Check something off your to do list. No waiting room, no pressure. You're in and you're out in about 10 minutes. Oil changes include tire pressure checks and fluid top offs, and the friendly staff explain everything and welcome you with a free water.

[Chuck Bryant]

Take five Fitting into your busy schedule is something you should know Find your nearest [e-mail] you seek out knowledge about the world, but what about your own body? At questhealth.com Uncover valuable health insights from hormones to liver function by purchasing a lab test online. The Quest Elite Health profile even looks at 85 plus health markers to give you a convenient, comprehensive snapshot of your well being. The process is simple. Buy your [e-mail], visit a quest location for sample collection, and get your results online fast. And for a limited time, save on select tests with code stuff. 10 at checkout terms apply with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.