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- [00:00]
A
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
B
Hey there. Before this podcast continues, I need you to fill out 37 forms about your listening history.
- [00:11]
C
I'll wait.
- [00:13]
B
Just kidding. That'd be ridiculous. Yet we do it every time we need healthcare. But new Amazon Health AI is different. It can connect your health history to offer personalized care so you can get help fast. Amazon Health AI Healthcare just got less
- [00:30]
C
painful with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder that Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One, if he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also tell you about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com BankGuy Capital One NA member FDIC stuff at sea is a five night adults only sailing trip that brings the Stuff Podcast universe to life on board. This voyage is a culture soaked escape where pink sand paradise meets curious minds. Sailing round trip from New York City to Bermuda on October 2 7, 2026, this voyage drops you straight into the iHeart podcast stuff universe on top of the adults Only experience you already love. You'll get live podcast episode recordings, behind the scenes sessions, themed activations, and more unmissable onboard moments. Learn more@virginvoyages.com Stuff welcome to Stuff youf
- [01:36]
A
Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
- [01:44]
C
Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is Stuff you should know about Camp David.
- [01:54]
B
That's right, it's about Camp David. But we're going to quickly mention that we are going on a cruise everybody. A Virgin Cruise Cruise. The voyage is the Big Apple to Bermuda.
- [02:05]
C
Yeah.
- [02:05]
B
And it is an adults only cruise wherein you can cruise with us, hear our live podcast, hear Stuff they don't want you to know. And some of our other colleagues live podcast and hang out with us and do there's like other events on board. It's going to be a lot of fun.
- [02:21]
C
Yeah, it's going to be a huge amount of fun. I think you just go to virginvoyages.com or you search Stuff at Sea and it will take you where you need to go to register for this Cruise.
- [02:34]
B
That's right.
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C
October 2nd to 7th.
- [02:36]
B
That is correct. And I'm already working on my tan and trying to drop a couple of pounds. What else to make sure I'm seaworthy. That's about it.
- [02:44]
C
Are you practicing shuffleboard?
- [02:46]
B
Practicing shuffleboard and cards.
- [02:50]
C
How many hats will you be bringing?
- [02:54]
B
In all seriousness, I will definitely bring my smaller, kind of cool straw hat and probably my big, big sunshade straw hat.
- [03:05]
C
Okay, good.
- [03:06]
B
And maybe a baseball cap.
- [03:08]
C
Nice. Yeah, that big floppy sunshade hat that says do not Disturb on it.
- [03:15]
B
No, no, no. It says Bikini Inspector.
- [03:18]
C
Federal Bikini inspector.
- [03:19]
B
Yeah, that's it. FBI.
- [03:21]
C
I couldn't remember what it was. Oh, man. Oh, man. Well, it's funny that you mentioned federal anything because we're talking about the federal government, and this is the best segue we could come up with. Camp David is this rustic retreat that the President of the United States is able to use to get away, ride horses, spend Christmas, try to broker peace in the Middle East. The usual stuff.
- [03:50]
B
Yeah, I requisitioned this from. I think this is Libya. Oh, it's gotta be because of the title.
- [03:57]
C
Yep.
- [03:58]
B
The Sleepaway Camp for Very Serious Grownups. And I really love what she came up with. And I love this episode already because I am a person that is. I don't know where it came from, but I am really interested in operations and, like, operations like how things operate. Like, if I go to, like, Cirque du Soleil, I'm wowed by the thing or Broadway show, but half of my brain is obsessed with how it all works and how they do what they do. And now I feel like I really understand not only the history of Camp David, but kind of a little behind the scenes of how it all goes down. And I just. For some reason, I love that stuff.
- [04:40]
C
Yeah, no, I know that about you. Although just now I thought you were talking about operations like swapping an arm and a leg or something. Because that is interesting.
- [04:50]
B
Or the game operation.
- [04:51]
C
Yeah. So, Chuck, these operations that you're fascinated by take place in Cadocton Mountain Park. It's in the Blue Ridge Mountains. It's in western Maryland. And we're not supposed to really get that much more specific. Although if you really look on a map, I'm pretty sure you could find Camp David. But at least initially, when the first President, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, took over, it was meant to be, like, a top secret place.
- [05:19]
B
Yeah.
- [05:19]
C
But it wasn't always a presidential retreat. It started out, I guess, under FDR as a New Deal project. Initially.
- [05:27]
B
That's right. In the 1930s, we kind of were able to look around at things like the Dust bowl and say, hey, we've done a pretty bad job with A lot of our agricultural practices and there's been a, you know, haven't treated our land as well as we should. So the federal government said, let's buy up some, what they called submarginal lands around the country and see if we can rehabilitate them, see if we can do other stuff with them. And this was one of those areas. It was in 1936 when they purchased about 10,000 acres in the Katatkin Mountains. It's about 55 miles from D.C. and the soil was pretty ruined there, just like I said, from bad agricultural practices and industrial purposes over the years. But, but it was in a nice area. It was like lovely countryside, lovely forest, you know, creeks and streams and ponds and all kinds of like great stuff to recreate around.
- [06:22]
C
Yeah, as long as you didn't look too close at the three eyed fishes and stuff like that. You're like, this place is amazing.
- [06:29]
B
Exactly.
- [06:30]
C
So the government took over. They renamed the area the Kedoctin Recreational Demonstration Area. Which is a great name. Yeah, it almost like this early part of it sounds almost Soviet.
- [06:43]
B
Yeah, it does.
- [06:44]
C
The Works Progress Administration and Civilian Conservation Corps built camps there. Some of the original idea was that it was going to be a recreation area for federal workers and their families. The only way it could have gotten more Soviet is if like it had used brutalist architecture.
- [07:03]
B
Yeah. Which didn't really fit in those lovely green woods.
- [07:06]
C
No. But fdr, he was like, that's great. I'm glad you guys are doing that. I'm going to be out here cruising on the presidential yacht, the USS Potomac. And it was known as the Floating White House. There's another one still today called the Sycamore that I think is JFK's presidential yacht. You, me and I looked into. You can rent it for events. And we were going to have our wedding on it and oh, wow. It holds like a limited number of people and we could never get the guest list down. So we're like, oh, we're just gonna go elope.
- [07:38]
B
Yeah, that's a good idea. To elope, that is.
- [07:42]
C
Thanks.
- [07:44]
B
Yeah, they don't have things like that anymore because by the time the Second World War rolled around they were like, maybe having all these important people, like floating out in the middle of the ocean isn't a great idea. And FDR was looking also to get away to someplace that was a little cooler in the summer because he had bad sinus problems. And I don't think we mentioned the name of this one particular camp inside this larger area that would become Camp David was Originally finished in 1938, it was called Camp High Katakan, H I. Katatkin. And so by the time FDR is like, all right, I can't be on that boat. I gotta go somewhere this good for my sinuses, he said, you know, let me see, what do you got within 100 miles of D.C. and in April of 1942, they took him to Cant High Katakan. And he was like, yeah, this, this seems okay.
- [08:35]
C
He says, fine, yeah. What's funny about that is apparently it was also a secret site around the same time for the oss, the predecessor of the CIA, for training spies in, like, close quarter pistol combat. There was something called the House of Horrors. There's a cool little Atlas Obscura article about it.
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B
Wow.
- [09:00]
C
Where you would go into this, like, haunted house and they like, instead of ghosts, they were pop up cardboard Nazis and scary sounds and conversation being played. And like, the. The hallways were angled in weird ways and it was dark, so it was very disorienting. And you had to kill every Nazi in the place or else they would kill you because you knew too much by that time, probably.
- [09:24]
B
That's right. So that's just a weird coincidence or is it? So obviously the presidential yacht was run by the Navy. And so they said, all right, why don't we just let the Navy run this new retreat? Since they're in the sort of retreat business, even though it has nothing to do with being on the water. And it was launched at an installation called the Naval Support Facility Thurmont. And Thurmont is the name of the area. When they hatched the idea for, like, Roosevelt to start going there, they would say, all right, we're going to place 100 Marines there. We're going to put up a security fence with an alarm on it. And he said, we also got to change this name. No one knows what High Katakin is, and it's hard to pronounce. So I read this book, Lost Horizon by James Hilton, and he talked about the Himalayan utopia of Shangri La. And that sounds really cool. So let's rename it Shangri La. And they said, well, you're the President, I guess we have to.
- [10:22]
C
They're like, we think that's terrible, but okay. Yeah, yeah. Apparently that book is where the name Shangri La came from. It was like, super popular book. Have you read it?
- [10:32]
B
I have not.
- [10:33]
C
Neither have I. So it wasn't until, I think, 1942 that FDR started using the camp. Of course, he very frequently used a wheelchair. So they basically made It ADA compliant before there was such a thing as ada.
- [10:51]
B
Yeah.
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C
And he was like, all right, I came up with Shangri La. Let's keep this role. I'm on going. I'm going to call the Presidential Cabin the Bears Den. And everyone's like, you're president again. And they called it the Bears Den.
- [11:07]
B
That's right. They initially spent about close to 19 grand fixing the place up. And they had a little dog house next door for his dog, Falla, which is really cute. And so he would go there and chill out at Shangri La. I can't wait till they change that name, by the way. And also started the practice of what would become a thing of hosting foreign leaders there and kind of like, you know, getting away from the rat race. In dc, Legend has it that he and Winston Churchill planned. I don't know if it's legend. I think that part is fact. Planned some of the D Day invasion from one of the cabin porches there and, like, would sit around and drink bourbon and smoke cigars, do a little fishing. I think this is the legend. Apparently, on one of the trips, they were driving back to D.C. and they made a stop at a restaurant in Thurmont called the Cozy Restaurant, because Churchill had heard of these jukeboxes, and he'd never seen a jukebox. So apparently they stopped there. Churchill went in and got a beer and just marveled at the jukebox.
- [12:06]
C
Right? Yeah. And the Cozy Restaurant was around till 2014. It was legendary because, I mean, if you were, you know, not quite of high enough status to actually stay at Camp David, you stayed in Thermont, and you probably ate at the Cozy Restaurant. So it was around for years.
- [12:25]
B
You could see Churchill there, apparently.
- [12:26]
C
You could. Can you just see him, like, just standing over the jukebox, mesmerized, just, like, laughing? Look at these things.
- [12:32]
B
It's flipping records.
- [12:35]
C
So you want to take a break and then come back and talk about, I don't know, Camp David?
- [12:41]
B
Sure, let's do it.
- [12:58]
A
Why is everyone obsessed with romance right now? Like, everyone your co worker who quote unquote, doesn't read, is reading romance. Your mom. Book talk, the entire Internet. I'm Sanjanah bhasker. I'm Tyler McCall, and this is Radio 831, a romance podcast. The books, the tropes, the adaptations, the drama, the discourse, and what all of it says about how we actually love, yearn and obsess. We're going to Wuthering Heights, which, for the record, is not a romance novel. And yet it has haunted the romance genre for 200 years. We're getting into dark romance age gaps, certain Russian hockey players and sentient objects in love, which is a thing. That's the kind of conversation we're having every episode. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [14:10]
C
So FDR was there. It was like a camp. Camp rustic keeps getting batted around as a word to describe Camp David. And today it's still used. But apparently back in FDR's time, at the beginning of all this, like, it was. It was rustic. And then when FDR died in 1945, Harry Truman, whose taste did not run to the rustic. Instead, he liked to hang out at the little white house on Key west that, you know, rather than in the woods outside of D.C. yeah, he still kind of. He was a good custodian of it, I guess. He ordered, like, the brush to be cleared back and he ordered heating, a heating system to be put in so it could be used year round. Before, it had only been used during the nice, nice months out of the year, but he didn't use it very much.
- [15:05]
B
Now, you know, it seems, reading through the history, that how you view Camp David, if you are president kind of goes back to, like, what you're into.
- [15:16]
C
Sure.
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B
And the people that enjoyed it seem like people that were like, yeah, I love going, like people that are probably into, like, being in the woods and that kind of scene. And if you're not into that kind of scene, like you said Truman, I guess he was a beach guy. Cause he liked Key West. And our current president very famously kind of hates Camp David. Cause we see his taste, and it's certainly not a rustic cabin in the woods kind of thing.
- [15:42]
C
Right.
- [15:42]
B
And you've seen other presidents that go there and, like, seem like they have a really, really great time.
- [15:46]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [15:47]
B
And we're gonna get into some of that. But it's just interesting. Like, it's sort of foisted upon you as president. It's like, all right, here's your camp. And then half of them seem there. Like, I. I'm not really into this kind of thing.
- [16:00]
C
Yeah. I think a significant number just keep their mouth shut about it, but don't really enjoy it very much. But, yes, it is expected of you to visit Camp David at some point in time during your presidency. But, yeah, some of them definitely appreciated it more than others. Ike, Eisenhower, Dwight D. Eisenhower. When he took over in 1953, he was like, this is A needless luxury. Let's get rid of it.
- [16:23]
B
Yeah, he seemed like he didn't maybe love it, but his attorney general, Herbert Brownwell, he went there for an inspection and he's a guy who loves that kind of thing. He loved it. And he came back and he sent sort of a joke that seems like it was like, but I'm kind of serious, a petition for executive clemency. And so Eisenhower was like, all right, fine, we'll keep Camp David. We should mention that it's a part of a almost 5,900 acre area, that Katatkin Mountain park, but it's only about 150 acres of that. Livia found other, and I did too, some other sizes potentially for the size of camp David, like 143, 180, 125, 200. She said it was oddly inconsistent, but I have a feeling that may just be part of the sort of subterfuge of not giving away too much.
- [17:14]
C
Sure, sure.
- [17:16]
B
Maybe not. But you know, it's somewhere between, let's say 140 and 200 acres.
- [17:20]
C
All right, I'll go along with that.
- [17:22]
B
All right, you're in for that.
- [17:25]
C
You referenced that Eisenhower relented and didn't get rid of what was still called Shangri La at the time. Yeah, he said that the name Shangri La was just a little fancy for a Kansas farm boy. So he renamed it Camp David. And we can stop saying Shangri La now, Chuck.
- [17:42]
B
Yay.
- [17:43]
C
And he named it Camp David after his five year old grandson, who scholars now realize was the one calling the shots during the Eisenhower administration.
- [17:54]
B
Interesting. That's very funny, by the way. But interestingly, that guy, the grandson David now runs the Institute for Public Service at University of Pennsylvania School for Communications and teaches a course called Communication in the Presidency. So that's kind of cool. And I bet you at the first day of class he was like, yes, I'm that David.
- [18:14]
C
I'm that David, guys.
- [18:15]
B
Yeah.
- [18:16]
C
One other thing about Eisenhower, the president, Ike, he was the one that warned the country in his farewell address about the growing threat of a military industrial complex. He was actually a pretty sharp dude who had the sharp tact the country at heart.
- [18:35]
B
Yeah, I mean, he was sharp enough to not want to drive there the 55 miles because he had a helicopter pad built on the site. So now it's just a half an hour to get there on, I guess Marine One.
- [18:48]
C
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
- [18:49]
B
And he said we should also have some more fun stuff to do here. So let's put In a screening room, little movie theater. Let's put in a bowling alley, let's put in a golf course. And they're like, we can't put a whole golf course. He was like, just one hole. And they said, sure, we'll put in a golf hole. It'll have some different tee boxes to give it a little variation. And he said, well, while I'm renaming things, this presidential cabin, I don't like Bearsden. I have a feeling he didn't like FDR and he changed it to Aspen in honor of Colorado, where his wife Mamie grew up. And then that started the tradition of naming all the camp cabins after trees.
- [19:27]
C
Yes. Which still goes on today. It's a long standing tradition. Yeah. That goes back to the 50s apparently. One of the other things that I don't know if Eisenhower ordered it or if they were just like, this needs to happen. There was a construction of a bomb shelter in case of nuclear war. Because again, this is the 50s and the cold war was really heating up. I guess it could accommodate 50 presidential employees. I saw as much as 150 defense staffers.
- [19:55]
B
Oh wow.
- [19:56]
C
If a nuclear war broke out and it was a bomb shelters underselling it. It was a called the presidential relocation spot. I don't remember the last word, but spot will do. Where you could run the country like out of like underground essentially. And it's still there today. And we'll talk a little bit more about it later. But one of the things that, that I found interesting is that when Richard Nixon came along, he ordered a heated swimming pool to be built right next to the presidential cabin. And I guess the only place to put it was right smack dab on top of the bomb shelter. And it cost like 260 grand in early 1970s money to reinforce the bomb shelter so the pool could be put on top of it. That's just so Nixon.
- [20:48]
B
Yeah, it's kind of cool though. It's a cool looking pool. It's like a little figure eight. And as we'll learn, I guess we're going to learn it right now. There aren't a ton of pictures of Camp David. I wouldn't say it's veiled in secrecy, but they don't put a ton of stuff out there. The press has never really been allowed there. It's a true retreat. So the only pictures that have ever been put out are when an administration and it's like Obama, hey, put out this picture of me doing a water gun fight at the pool with my daughters. Cause it's super Cool. And I look awesome.
- [21:19]
C
Yeah. He was looking over the photographer's shoulders as they were skimming through him. He's like, that one. That one. That looked pretty cool.
- [21:25]
B
Yeah. He's like, can you do something about my elevens and my crow's feet?
- [21:29]
C
He said, you need dysport.
- [21:32]
B
So Nixon put in the swimming pool. And then he also is responsible for building the Laurel Lodge, which is the biggest building there. That's where a lot of the meetings are held. A lot of the bigger dinners are there. And it replaced the previous Laurel Lodge, which is smaller, obviously. And that one was renamed Holly. The Holly Lodge. And then Reagan came along as a religious guy. He's like, we need a chapel here. We need a non denominational chapel.
- [21:58]
C
Really?
- [22:00]
B
Well, what really. Did he ask for that or that
- [22:02]
C
they needed one that you're not going to say it like Ronald Reagan.
- [22:06]
B
Well, okay, that's all I'm gonna say.
- [22:09]
C
All right, that's good now.
- [22:11]
B
So he got that going, but it didn't actually open until H.W. bush's administration. It's called the Evergreen Chapel. Previous to that, if you were a religious president, like George's own Jimmy Carter, very famously religious, he would hold Sunday services in Hickory Lodge.
- [22:28]
C
Yeah. Apparently there was only one wedding, which kind of surprised me, and that was George H.W. bush's daughter, Dorothy.
- [22:35]
B
I mean, you guys looked into it, but you couldn't get the guest list down.
- [22:39]
C
We couldn't find the place.
- [22:40]
B
Oh, yeah, that was a problem.
- [22:42]
C
W. George H.W. bush's son, he spent a lot of time. I think both H.W. and W. Bush both spent Christmases at Camp David.
- [22:53]
B
Yeah, they loved it.
- [22:54]
C
Yeah. And as W's term was coming to an end, he had the basketball court refurbished for his successor, Barack Obama, because Barack Obama famously loved basketball. Basketball, man, what a. What a class act, right?
- [23:11]
B
What a different time, you know? I know, it's crazy. Yeah. All right, moving on. So we mentioned earlier, like, you know, it's a retreat for sure, but it's also where some very famous diplomatic meetings have taken place. And that started in 1959, when Ike, as Josh calls him. Cause you're so friendly to each other. He invited Khrushchev there, Soviet Premier Khrushchev, to, you know, do what you do there, which is like get a little more informal setting, get people out of the rat race of DC and try and connect a little more personally. And that's always sort of been the reason why they take people there. And so Khrushchev, sort of like Churchill, was just Sat around and gawked at the jukebox at the cozy restaurant. Apparently, Khrushchev just marveled at the bowling alley's automatic pin setter.
- [24:02]
C
Yeah, I call Khrushchev Niki.
- [24:08]
B
I think he just. Yeah, well, he says, call me Nicky when he's bowling. But he just kept saying, that's what
- [24:13]
C
it says on his bowling shirt. That's what stitched.
- [24:15]
B
He kept saying, knock pins down again. I would like to see pin set.
- [24:19]
C
Very nice. Did I send this to you? The little extra stuff about the bomb shelter?
- [24:27]
B
No. On top of the pool or under the pool? On top of the pool. Be a very bad place for a bombshell.
- [24:33]
C
They were building this when Khrushchev came and visited the shelter in 59.
- [24:39]
B
Yeah, what's that over there?
- [24:40]
C
Right. They didn't want that, so they built a deck over it that was temporary, but didn't look temporary over the big hole that they'd excavated, they hid all the excavated dirt. And there's pictures of Khrushchev on the deck waving. Clearly doesn't know what he's standing on top of.
- [24:56]
B
He said, does someone hear echo?
- [24:58]
C
Every time I speak in Soviet Russia, Echo hears you.
- [25:03]
B
Oh, man, that's a good fact. I like that.
- [25:05]
C
The echo thing. Hearing you.
- [25:07]
B
No, just building the deck. It seems like something out of, like, a zany comedy or something.
- [25:12]
C
It totally does. I could see Peter Sellers, like, rushing around.
- [25:16]
B
Yeah, I had a strange love vibe, too.
- [25:18]
C
And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, though, some foreign dignitaries and leaders did not enjoy going to Camp David. Harold Macmillan, who was Prime Minister of the UK during Ike's term, he did not like going because apparently Ike would make you watch Westerns during movie nights. And Macmillan, I also call Harold Macmillan, Mack Mac. Called them inconceivably banal movie nights. And I can imagine that. Like, what? You gotta be kind of into Westerns to enjoy, like, a Western anytime, you know?
- [25:58]
B
Yeah, yeah. Emily doesn't like Westerns at all.
- [26:02]
C
I like weird Westerns, like the remake of True Grit or Deadman or, you know, stuff like that. But like, the classics, I've never gotten into. Although I do like the Wild Bunch. That's a great movie.
- [26:16]
B
No. Geez. Yeah, Sam Peckinpah.
- [26:19]
C
But I've never. I don't think I've ever seen all of the Magnificent Seven. Like, I've just never really gotten into good Westerns. Although I do love Sam Raimi's the Quick and the Dead, too. See, I like weird Westerns.
- [26:31]
B
Yeah. There's a name for that it's not revisionist. It's weird Westerns. Yeah, it's a weird Western word. We'll just call it Weird Westerns, but I know what you mean.
- [26:41]
C
Okay.
- [26:41]
B
Like, Australia puts out some cool Westerns like that.
- [26:44]
C
Oh, yeah, Like Nick Cave's one.
- [26:46]
B
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think you'd like Magnificent Seven, by the way. That's one that you probably would dig.
- [26:51]
C
It seems like you'd be right. Maybe I just need to give it another shot.
- [26:55]
B
Yeah, that's one. After the Bay of Pigs, JFK invited. What'd you call him?
- [27:02]
C
Jifk.
- [27:03]
B
Jifk. He invited Ike back to the camp to consult a little bit. I think he just trusted his foreign policy experience. And there was a very famous photograph taken on that trip. AP photographer Paul Vathis won a Pulitzer Prize in 1962 for his picture Serious Steps. It's this great black and white of JFK and Eisenhower, kind of from the rear, walking up a wooded path. It's very cool picture.
- [27:29]
C
Right. With JFK saying, we are screwed, and Ike saying, you are screwed.
- [27:36]
B
That's right. I'm not president.
- [27:38]
C
Probably the most famous thing that happened at Camp David was the Camp David Accords. That was between Menachem Begin, who was the prime minister of Israel at the time, and the president of Egypt at the time, Anwar Sadat. And it was presided over by Jimmy Carter. And Carter and his aides really did about the best job you could possibly do in trying to get Israel and any Arab country, in this case Egypt, to strike some sort of peace agreement. And it's still, like, it's revered, especially in the United States, as, like, this great success. But if you look at it further down the pike, it didn't work out all that well. But still, this was about as good as you could expect. It's certainly the best that's ever been done at Camp David.
- [28:34]
B
Yeah. I mean, at the time, it was remarkable to even get those guys in the same room, much less go to camp for almost two weeks. I think they're there for 13 days. And again, the reason they do this is to get away from the media, to have some real privacy to connect as humans, to maybe find love. Yeah, little footsie under the table.
- [28:54]
C
Sure.
- [28:56]
B
They watch movies together. Apparently, Anwar Sadat hiked the trails each morning. Carter very purposefully didn't even use the larger room. He went to that initial meeting room, which was renamed Holly because he thought it was more intimate. And he loved it there. You know, Carter loved it, but the guys found it kind of, you know, they were Used to the wide open desert and so they found it kind of dark and gloomy. But you know, one of the pluses of being isolated like that is if things start going south, they just, they can't run and like jump in their car and be at the airport in 10 minutes.
- [29:29]
C
Yeah. And the press isn't there to provoke hostility in order to like get a great quote or to stir things up for better, better press or whatever.
- [29:39]
B
Yeah.
- [29:39]
C
I also saw that Jimmy Carter watched Star wars with Anwar Sadat. And that is not a joke.
- [29:46]
B
Oh, wow.
- [29:47]
C
That's what they watched at Camp David.
- [29:49]
B
That, that's amazing.
- [29:52]
C
So Ronald Reagan, I think aside from the Camp David accords. I associate Camp David with Ronald Reagan more than anybody.
- [30:00]
B
He loved it, man.
- [30:01]
C
He loved going and playing cowboy when he was during. When he was president.
- [30:08]
B
Yeah, he loved it very famously. Loved riding horses. Nancy loved it. They would go there like a lot on the weekends, like their little weekend retreat because again, it's a 30 minute helicopter ride and all of a sudden you're at this. I think being away from the press is a really big deal.
- [30:25]
C
Yeah, I think that's a big, huge part of it.
- [30:27]
B
Yeah. Just to go check out. So he would host world leaders there. He recorded his weekly radio addresses there. The Bushes loved it too. Like you said, they spent Christmases there both, you know, father and son. And apparently W used it for some post 9, 11 strategy sessions. And Obama liked it a lot too.
- [30:46]
C
Yeah. No word on what Biden did with it. He's apparently being erased from history.
- [30:53]
B
Well, Obama moved the G8 summit there. I think it was supposed to be in Chicago. And he gave. The reasons that you usually give was to get away from everyone and kind of have a more free flowing discussion. But other people are like, I think you're probably also trying to avoid protesters.
- [31:09]
C
Right. Cause if the press can't get there, I can tell you, protesters can't.
- [31:13]
B
Yeah. And I mentioned Donald Trump not really liking it very much. I think in 2017 he said it was, quote, very rustic and then said, you know how long you'd like it for? About 30 minutes. So it's not his scene and I think no one is surprised about that. But he has used it, I think kind of when he has to. I think last year he used it for a retreat regarding Middle east strategy. So more Middle east strategy taking place at Camp David.
- [31:40]
C
Yeah. Okay, Chuck, I say that we take a second break and when we come back, we're going to really get into your favorite part, how this place operates.
- [31:49]
B
I Love it.
- [32:05]
A
Why is everyone obsessed with romance right now? Like everyone your co worker who quote unquote doesn't read. Is reading romance your mom. Book talk, the entire Internet. I'm Sanjanah bhasker. I'm Tyler McCall. And this is Radio 831, a romance podcast. The books, the tropes, the adaptations, the drama, the discourse, and what all of it says about how we actually love, yearn and obsess. We're going to Wuthering Heights, which for the record, is not a romance novel. And yet it has hope haunted the romance genre for 200 years. We're getting into dark romance age gaps, certain Russian hockey players and sentient objects in love, which is a thing. That's the kind of conversation we're having every episode. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [33:17]
B
All right, so we're back to talk about operations. I'm so excited. Its official name is the Naval Support Facility Thermont, obviously still operated by the Navy, like I said. And most of the work there are members of the civil Engineer Corps who are known as the Seabees.
- [33:32]
C
Sure.
- [33:33]
B
And if you're a sailor and you're stationed at Camp David, first of all, congratulations. I imagine that's pretty awesome as an assignment. But it's a 36 month tour, so you're there for about three years. And you may be a cook or you may be able to. You may be a hairdresser, or you may be able to like, ride horses and teach people to ride horses. Or you may be a licensed lifeguard.
- [33:55]
C
Yeah. You're not a guard, though. A guard. Guard, though, that's the Marines, as we'll see.
- [34:00]
B
That's right.
- [34:01]
C
There are other organizations or other departments that handle different parts of it. The Public Works Department, they handle maintenance. The building, the grounds, the electrical systems, the vehicles. Anything that starts to break down, Public works is probably on top of it. The operations department, they handle arrivals and departures of aircraft. That would include Marine One. Chuck, that's Aircraft Two.
- [34:28]
B
That's right.
- [34:29]
C
They handle electronics. They handle firefighting. Yeah. Which means they're in charge of the VCRs and VCR fires there at Camp David.
- [34:38]
B
That's right. Oh, man. You know, that vcr, it's got some hours logged, too. So it's a. It's a fire waiting to happen.
- [34:45]
C
I think it's got big trouble in Little China stuck in it right now.
- [34:50]
B
I love that movie.
- [34:51]
C
That is so great. That might be My favorite movie. Man, that is such a good movie.
- [34:56]
B
Oh, it's classic. I keep trying to get Ruby to watch it, and she hasn't yet, but I know she's going to love it.
- [35:00]
C
She will love it. Yep.
- [35:01]
B
Yeah, that's a good one. Supply department deals with finances, accommodations, and food service is a big part of it there, obviously. And that is an extension of the Navy's Presidential food service department. This is the stuff I love. Like, you never think about, like, yeah, somebody buys groceries for these meals for the White House and elsewhere, but it's gotta be, like, a rigorous thing as far as the chain of command and, like, as far as poisoning and stuff goes. Like, it's not just somebody shopping for food. So they handle all that stuff and all the catering and all the dining services.
- [35:38]
C
I've got something for you since you like how all this works. Oh, yeah, I read about that. When they buy groceries, the first family pays for their own groceries. Did you know that? Oh, wow. Everything else is essentially free. They have to pay for the food they eat, aside from, like, state dinners and stuff like that. But the family eats groceries that they pay for. They get a monthly bill every month. And I think it was Michelle Obama who said that they learned the hard way that you should ask how much different things that you're putting on your grocery list cost because you can get sticker shock from the monthly bill.
- [36:11]
B
Yeah, I guess that's how Trump was so well versed on the price of eggs.
- [36:15]
C
I guess so.
- [36:16]
B
He probably went over that bill at the end of every month and was like, this is how much eggs are.
- [36:19]
C
I wonder if they jack the prices up or if they're fair or they get a discount or something. But I would like to know that. But, yes, I'm fascinated by that, too. Somebody buying groceries in that situation.
- [36:31]
B
Yeah. And I bet how it goes down is either it's a very specific, like, place that they shop, or it's, like, just totally secret and no one has any idea that it's. That's what they're shopping for.
- [36:43]
C
Good point. Yeah, it could definitely be. Maybe there's two. There's, like, a decoy shopper, too.
- [36:49]
B
All right. They have a shirt on that says Presidential grocery list.
- [36:56]
C
Right. Federal Body Inspector.
- [36:58]
B
It's like when. Well, on that note, it's like when Michael Keaton wore the FBI shirt in. Oh, what was it? No, I can't think of it. Out of sight.
- [37:10]
C
Hmm. I don't remember that.
- [37:11]
B
The great Steven Soderbergh movie with J. Lo and George Clooney. I think he wore like an FBI T shirt while doing FBI raids and stuff.
- [37:19]
C
That's funny. I didn't even know he was in that movie. I haven't seen that one either.
- [37:23]
B
He's got. Oh, boy, out of sight is G rate.
- [37:26]
C
Capital G. You've told me that.
- [37:28]
B
A great, great one.
- [37:29]
C
All right, I'll check it out. That and Magnificent Seven. Basically the same movie, I'm sure.
- [37:33]
B
Yeah.
- [37:35]
C
Chuck, I also said that if you were on a hitch in the Navy assigned to Camp David, you probably weren't a guard, and that's because the Marines guard it. Specifically, the marines from the 8th and I Street Barracks, which is a barracks in D.C. they've pretty much from the outset been responsible for guarding the camp.
- [37:55]
B
Yeah, for sure. I think when it was first built in 1957, they only went there when the President was there. But then Ike, Josh's buddy, said, you know what? We should probably just have people there all the time guarding the place. And I think 71, 72 is when the Marines form Marine Security Company as a permanent company. And I think they are on about a 18 month tour when they're stationed there.
- [38:20]
C
Right. And everyone there has Yankee white clearance, which is very frequently referred to as a security clearance level. It's not. It's a specific type of background check. I think it's the deepest background check that they perform. And everyone who works near the President has that kind of background check done.
- [38:40]
B
Yeah, it involves a surgical glove, if you know what I mean.
- [38:44]
C
There was one other thing too, that Livia pointed out that I hadn't thought about. But sure, it's quite true for the people who just work there. Like during times when the President's not there, there's probably not that much to do. And then all of a sudden there's everything in the world to do. Right now, when the President does come and there's like a summit or something like that.
- [39:08]
B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're feeding themselves and the staff and they're keeping up with the grounds and all that, keeping the grass mowed and everything clean. But yeah, when the dignitaries come around and the President comes around, it's. Imagine a high stress situation, because a lot of these people that come, like we mentioned with these leaders in the Middle east, are coming to a completely different scene that they're used to. And a lot of them have very specific religious accommodations that need to be made and meal accommodations that need to be made. Whether it's like kosher food or getting alcohol removed from a cabin or putting prayer rugs in the proper spot. So yeah, there's a lot of hoops you gotta jump through to make sure everyone feels good about being there. And also like, the accommodations are kind of on par with one another and like he got the better room, right? Well, yeah, like you don't want that happening.
- [40:01]
C
I mean, some of the cabins are nicer. There's obviously ones that are closer to Aspen, the presidential cabin than others. So figuring out who stays where is like huge, hugely important part of all this. I mean, like, we're talking about some of the most fragile egos in the entire world. Yeah.
- [40:19]
B
Plus, I mean, if you're a foreign leader, you want to be close to the President's cabin so you don't have to go far for the middle of the night, sneak out, makeout session.
- [40:28]
C
That's right. Skinny dipping in the pond behind Aspen.
- [40:32]
B
That's right.
- [40:34]
C
So if you are a hiker in this area, you can actually get accidentally close to Camp David. And the way that you will find out that you accidentally got close to Camp David is because a marine's going to suddenly emerge from the woods and tell you to turn around. Right now it's like Rainbow. Pretty much, yeah.
- [40:55]
B
He's like hiding at the ground as a pile of leaves, right?
- [40:58]
C
Yeah. Or like he's covered in mud and he suddenly opens his eyes.
- [41:02]
B
Oh God, I remember that one. That was a good one.
- [41:04]
C
So, yes, and the reason why you could accidentally stumble into this Chuck is because intentionally there's no signage saying like, welcome to Camp David or stay away from Camp David. Like it's still meant to be semi secret. And it's those marines on patrol that are essentially the first line of defense, perimeter wise.
- [41:25]
B
Yeah. Like, you know, you're getting close. If you're on your lovely hike and you see a sign that maybe says no photography out here in the middle of the woods or no loitering, and then you're like, oh, I bet you I'm getting close to Camp David.
- [41:37]
C
Right.
- [41:38]
B
And then, you know, the eye in the mud comes out and you know you're done for.
- [41:43]
C
Also, if you're a plane and you get too close, you're probably going to have a fighter jet suddenly come out of nowhere and say, hey, follow me to Reagan National Airport.
- [41:52]
B
Yeah. I think airspace is restricted to 5,000ft above sea level in a three mile zone. When the President isn't there. When the President is there, it's 10 miles. And what else we got? Should we talk just a little bit about some of the lodgings?
- [42:09]
C
Sure. I think we'd be remiss if we didn't.
- [42:13]
B
Well, there's about 20 cabins and obviously other buildings. You got that presidential cabin, which is four bedroom with a kitchen and an office and a patio, and that swimming pool is right there. So if you see that picture of Obama playing with his kids at the pool, the cabin in the background, that is the one.
- [42:29]
C
That's Aspen, baby. The former bears den.
- [42:33]
B
Yep.
- [42:33]
C
There's Laurel Lodge. We talked about that. It's a huge conference rooms, dining room all. It's like the official. It's the most official probably of all the congregational areas. Right. Hickory Lodge, when you want to blow off some steam and just watch the pin setters in action, that's where you're going to hang out. There's also a bar there, so you can get soused.
- [42:55]
B
And maybe a hookah. A hookah pipe?
- [42:57]
C
Sure. Oh, yeah, there's definitely a hookah lounge and a cava bar as well. Okay. There's a gift shop in Hickory Lodge. Like, do they actually charge foreign leaders for like a postcard or something? And are the foreign leaders buying a postcard at Camp David?
- [43:14]
B
Well, I know that Khrushchev very famously bought a shot glass. Camp David shot glass. And a little license plate with. He couldn't find his name, but he just. He found one that said Nick.
- [43:23]
C
Yeah.
- [43:24]
B
And he was like, close enough.
- [43:26]
C
And on the shot glass it said, I got nuked at Camp David.
- [43:34]
B
Oh, man, I want to go there so bad. It does. I did see a picture of the actual Camp David sign, and it looks like a, like, you know, teenager, like, camp in the woods camp sign. It's awesome, right?
- [43:47]
C
Like, it's. Yeah, I can imagine exactly what it looks like. Yeah, Just kind of chiseled in the yellow lining side.
- [43:54]
B
That's the one.
- [43:56]
C
What else you got? Horseshoes, Skeet shooting. Oh, here's the last thing I think we should put in there, Chuck, is that they all ride golf carts there. Apparently it's one of the funnest aspects of Camp David, which I think says a lot about Camp David, is that there's a fleet of golf carts and the President's is called Golf Cart one. Yeah, that was George W. Bush who came up with that.
- [44:22]
B
That's right. And they've called it that ever since. So you can shoot the skeet. I think there's a second swimming pool for the staff and play a little tennis if you want. Have you ever shot skeet?
- [44:33]
C
Oh, yeah. It's funny. I was driving from Chicago to Akron and I was passing by Fields that my dad used to take my sister and I out to. To shoot skeet.
- [44:43]
B
Oh, did you have one of the flingers?
- [44:45]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [44:46]
B
I have only done it once and it was at a skeet shooting facility in wine country in California. It's fun and I loved it and I was pretty good at it.
- [44:56]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [44:57]
B
I had never shot shotguns like that before and like I was hitting them.
- [45:02]
C
Pull.
- [45:03]
B
Yeah, it was fun.
- [45:04]
C
Yeah, it is fun. Like we go out with a big old box of those clay pigeons and shoot them up. I don't remember whether I was good or not, but I mean, I was probably 10 years old holding a 12 gauge shotgun.
- [45:16]
B
Yeah, I mean, I loved it so much. I was like, oh, man. I. I found online there's like a club south of Atlanta and I'm going to buy a shotgun and like become a member. And of course I never did any of that, but I am looking forward to going. Ian, one day.
- [45:28]
C
Somebody has Christmas coming up.
- [45:30]
B
That's right.
- [45:32]
C
Okay, well, I think we're done with Camp David for now, right?
- [45:35]
B
Yeah, that's a good one.
- [45:37]
C
Until you go there and you can report back.
- [45:39]
B
That's right.
- [45:40]
C
Well, since Chuck said that's right about going to Camp David and reporting back, it's time, of course, for listener mail.
- [45:50]
B
This one is a follow up on Roar. Hey, guys, just wanted to write in about a brief thing Josh said in the Roar episode. I'm summarizing, but he mentioned at one point that a movie shouldn't have the same writer, director and star because they needed to keep one another in check. Sort of like the branches of government. This really isn't a thing, Josh. Chuck was on the spot. Came up with a good example in Clint Eastwood, but I couldn't think of any others. So I will mention Spike Lee, Woody Allen, John Cassavetes, Mel Brooks, Kevin Costner, a guy named Orson Welles. More modern examples include Ben Affleck, Bradley Cooper, and Billy Bob Thornton. Some even act as editors and camera operators, sometimes under fake names for reasons I think have to do with unions, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I hope young filmmakers hear this because encouraging students to write, direct and star in their own short films is a great way to learn the craft and get things done. And that is Sylvie, not Sylvia.
- [46:45]
C
Sylvie, I appreciate that. Thank you for setting me straight eight ways til Sunday. If you want to be like Sylvie and set me straight and give all sorts of great examples to. To back your point up, that's fantastic. You can put it in email and send it off to stuffpodcastheartradio.com
- [47:07]
A
Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartradio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.