Plant-Based Diets

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stuff You Should Know – Episode: Plant-Based Diets Release Date: May 13, 2025
Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction to Plant-Based Diets

In this episode, Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve deep into the world of plant-based diets, exploring its various forms, historical context, global consumption patterns, religious influences, health implications, and environmental impacts. They also share practical tips for those considering transitioning to a plant-based lifestyle.

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1. Understanding Plant-Based Diets

Definitions and Variations:
Josh begins by clarifying that a plant-based diet is not synonymous with veganism or vegetarianism. Instead, it encompasses a spectrum of dietary patterns primarily focused on consuming plants, with varying degrees of animal product inclusion.

• Vegan: Excludes all animal products, including meat, dairy, eggs, and honey.
• Vegetarian: Excludes meat but may include dairy and eggs. Variations include:
  • Lacto-vegetarian: Includes dairy.
  • Ovo-vegetarian: Includes eggs.
  • Lacto-ovo vegetarian: Includes both dairy and eggs.
• Pescatarian: Includes fish and seafood but excludes other meats.
• Flexitarian: Primarily plant-based with occasional meat consumption.

Notable Quote:
Chuck humorously remarks, “I love living things, so I do not kill plants and eat them,” highlighting his commitment to a plant-centric lifestyle. [01:21]

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2. Historical and Cultural Context

Meat Consumption Trends:
The hosts discuss how meat consumption has historically been a marker of wealth and status. In the United States during the 19th century, abundant land allowed for significant livestock farming, making meat more accessible compared to Europe.

• US vs. Global Consumption: The US leads globally with per capita meat consumption averaging between 123-150 kg, translating to roughly four quarter-pounders per person annually. This contrasts sharply with countries like the Democratic Republic of Congo, averaging just over 4 kg per capita. [04:10]

Cultural Shifts:
As nations become more prosperous, their meat consumption typically increases. Italy, for example, shifted from a predominantly plant-based Mediterranean diet to higher meat consumption post-World War II. [08:21]

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3. Global Meat Consumption Statistics

Continental Averages:

• Africa: Average meat consumption is around 65 kg per capita, with disparities between regions—South Africa at ~65 kg and the Democratic Republic of Congo at ~4 kg. [11:22]
• Asia: Countries like India and Taiwan rank high in vegetarianism but maintain moderate meat consumption. Nations such as Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, and Laos consume notably less meat, often under 30 kg per capita. [13:05]
• Vegetarian Populations: India leads with nearly 40% vegetarians, influenced heavily by cultural and religious factors. [15:37]

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4. Religious Influences on Diet

Major Religions and Dietary Practices:
Religion plays a significant role in shaping dietary habits, often promoting vegetarianism or specific dietary restrictions.

• Hinduism: Approximately 80% of Hindus adhere to a vegetarian diet, with beef consumption being taboo due to the sacred status of cows. [20:17]
• Jainism and Sikhism: Jains maintain an extremely strict vegetarian diet to avoid harm to all living beings, while 59% of Sikhs in India follow vegetarianism. [21:31]
• Buddhism: Linked to non-violence, many Buddhists adopt vegetarianism to minimize harm to sentient beings. Historically, Japan banned meat consumption from 675 to 1872 influenced by Buddhism and Confucianism. [19:31]
• Judaism and Islam: Kosher and halal dietary laws impose restrictions on meat types and slaughter practices, fostering mindfulness in food choices. [16:19]

Notable Quote:
Chuck jokes, “Maybe our musical duo should be Pekid and Peckish,” reflecting on the terminology related to Hinduism and diet. [19:44]

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5. Health Implications of Plant-Based Diets

Benefits:

• Nutrient Intake: High in vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants. Legumes offer substantial protein and amino acids.
• Cholesterol Management: Plant-based diets typically contain no cholesterol, beneficial for those with genetic predispositions to high cholesterol.
• Cancer Risk: Vegetarians and vegans have a 10-18% lower risk of cancer compared to meat eaters.

Potential Deficiencies and Risks:

• Protein Intake: Vegetarians and especially vegans may face challenges in meeting adequate protein requirements, potentially leading to deficiencies.
• Vitamin B12: Critical for red blood cell production and nerve function; 52% of vegans and 7% of vegetarians may be deficient, whereas meat eaters have less than a 1% deficiency rate. [40:00]
• Bone Health: Vegetarians have a 25% higher risk of hip fractures, and vegans 131%, possibly due to lower B12 intake affecting bone density and muscle mass. [41:19]

All-Cause Mortality:
Surprisingly, all-cause mortality rates show no significant difference between vegetarians, vegans, and meat eaters, suggesting that diet alone may not determine overall lifespan. [42:19]

Notable Quote:
Josh humorously notes, “African step-by-step meat consumption is way less than the US,” emphasizing global disparities. [14:17]

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6. Environmental Impact of Meat Consumption

Greenhouse Gas Emissions:

• Beef and Lamb: Leading contributors to greenhouse gas emissions, with beef producing 60 kg CO₂ per kilogram and lamb/mutton similarly high.
• Plant-Based Alternatives: Except for high-impact foods like chocolate and almonds, most plant-based foods have a significantly lower carbon footprint. [45:26]
• Water Usage: Livestock farming consumes ¼ to ½ of all human water usage, primarily for livestock sustenance and feed production. [47:04]

Deforestation and Habitat Destruction:

• Tropical Deforestation: Beef farming accounts for 41% of tropical deforestation globally, overshadowing other agricultural drivers like palm oil and soy, which together account for 18%. [50:15]
• Biodiversity Threats: Habitat destruction for livestock leads to the extinction and endangerment of numerous plant and animal species. [50:08]

Zoonotic Diseases:
Reduction in livestock farming could decrease the prevalence of zoonotic diseases, which account for 75% of emerging communicable diseases. [49:29]

Notable Quote:
Chuck summarizes, “Beef once again is the biggest factor. Beef is bad,” encapsulating the environmental strain caused by beef production. [51:11]

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7. Practical Tips for Adopting a Plant-Based Diet

Josh and Chuck offer actionable advice for listeners interested in transitioning to a plant-based diet:

• Increase Vegetable Intake: Fill half of each plate with a variety of colorful vegetables. [22:25]
• Mindful Meat Consumption: Reduce meat portions to the size of a thumbnail, treating it as a side rather than the main focus of the meal. [23:37]
• Cook Vegetarian Meals Weekly: Incorporate at least one vegetarian meal per week to gradually adjust dietary habits. [25:39]
• Choose Healthy Fats: Opt for avocados, olive oil, and other plant-based fats. [25:28]
• Embrace Whole Foods: Prioritize whole, unprocessed plant foods over processed vegan alternatives. [37:18]
• Dessert Alternatives: Replace sugary desserts with fruits or a small piece of dark chocolate to satisfy sweet cravings healthily. [27:03]

Notable Quote:
Josh emphasizes practicality, stating, “These are easy ways to kind of slide into it,” encouraging gradual dietary changes. [25:51]

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8. Listener Interaction

The episode concludes with a listener mail from Tate Avent, who credits the podcast for inspiring his sustained interest in blacksmithing—a testament to the show's influential reach.

Notable Quote:
Tate shares, “Your show has been the longest running podcast of my life,” highlighting the positive impact of Stuff You Should Know. [52:17]

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Conclusion

Josh and Chuck present a comprehensive exploration of plant-based diets, balancing personal anecdotes with factual information. They acknowledge both the benefits and challenges associated with adopting such diets, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding to make informed dietary choices.

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Additional Resources:

• For more information on obstructive sleep apnea (OSA), visit don'tsleeponosa.com. This segment is sponsored by Lilly USA, LLC. [00:00-00:35]

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Thank you for tuning into Stuff You Should Know. For more episodes, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Chuck Bryant]

You're listening to an I Heart podcast.

[Josh Clark]

For adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA and obesity. Refreshing sleep may be hard to come by and who likes to lag and drag through the day.

[Chuck Bryant]

OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation that could leave you feeling tired and fatigued.

[Josh Clark]

Loud snoring, choking or gasping for air during sleep could be signs of OSA. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more at don'tsleeponosa.com this information is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Provided by Lilly USA, LLC. Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And Jerry's here too. And this is a good old fashioned rootin tootin down home episode of Stuff youf Should Know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Technical difficulties. Please stand by.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, we're a good 20 minutes late.

[Chuck Bryant]

Chuck, man, because of. Well, I was about to say me. It's not my fault.

[Josh Clark]

No, it's not your fault. It's the computer's fault.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not even. But who cares about computers? This is. I mean, this is probably literally the opposite of computers because we're talking about plants.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna ask you old school Chuck, have you ever eaten a plant?

[Chuck Bryant]

I love living things, so I do not kill plants and eat them.

[Josh Clark]

So are you a breathetarian?

[Chuck Bryant]

That's what they are, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Where you just don't eat.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, of course I eat plants. Emily, I would argue, has a plant based diet. Now that I know that a plant based diet doesn't mean that you're vegan or vegetarian. It just. And as you'll see, depending on the percentage of the website you look at, a lot of people say it really depends on how much you eat. And a certain percentage, maybe 80% of your diet is plant based. And that's easily. Emily, she eats vegetables constantly.

[Josh Clark]

She always has a radish in her hand.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, but just her meals. Like, her meal. She'll cook like we try to eat the same stuff, but I don't want to sit down and eat Brussels sprouts, broccoli, and cauliflower for dinner.

[Josh Clark]

That's a plant based diet for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, but she'll throw some chicken in there and some fish. So she's sort of pescatarian plus maybe.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, Pesci, Poultrytarian.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of terms for all this stuff. I didn't know about a third of these probably.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, they all seem to fall under the umbrella term, like you said, a plant based diet. So a vegan diet is a plant based diet. But not all plant diets are like vegan diets. That kind of setup.

[Chuck Bryant]

I had never heard of lacto vegetarian, which basically means throw out all the rest. But I'll eat dairy.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, understandable. There's also ovo vegetarian. These are terrible names, by the way.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

That means that you include eggs in your vegan diet.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Not oval. That would make even more sense, I think.

[Josh Clark]

No, it means that you include ovum in your diet. But I should say it's not a vegan diet at all. Like you can't have any kind of animal products.

[Chuck Bryant]

Nope.

[Josh Clark]

In a vegan diet, not just like meat or dairy or eggs, but like vegan won't eat honey. We talked about fig wasps recently. They won't eat figs for that reason.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think some vegans. I found a lot of support behind vegans saying like a processed wasp part in a thing is fine.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. I'll bet there's some that still won't.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, sure.

[Josh Clark]

And then there's also lacto ovo vegetarian. You're a vegetarian, but you eat eggs and dairy. There's lacto ovo, bacon, vegetarian. And then there's what you said Emily was pescatarian, which is general. I mean, you're essentially just, you know, you're eating more vegetables than the average person at this point. If you're a pescatarian.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think that's right. No comment on what that does to your butt.

[Josh Clark]

What if you just eat seafood?

[Chuck Bryant]

No. If you eat nothing but broccoli and cauliflower all day long.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah. Not just your butt, but like the well being of people around you too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, but it's very good for you. She's a much healthier human than I am.

[Josh Clark]

Nice. Well, not the part that you're not as healthy, but I'm glad that she is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Of course. One thing we should point out early on is that there's a sort of exhaustive look at how much meat people eat around the world at a certain point or kind of peppered throughout. And just for comps purposes, in the United States, we average per capita meat consumption between 123-150ish kilograms, depending on where you're looking. So just kind of put that in your. In the back. In your back pocket when we start talking about other countries.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that really kind of came home to me when I converted it to quarter pounders or in Europe, Royale with cheese. That's 1332 quarter pounders a year. That means you're eating almost four quarter pounders worth of meat a day every year at 151.4 kg.

[Chuck Bryant]

Man. If only you could do that and live right.

[Josh Clark]

That's called heaven, my friend.

[Chuck Bryant]

So clearly with those kind of numbers, the US is a meat based culture. I mean, plenty of people here do not take part in that kind of thing, obviously. But as you'll see, many cultures around the world historically have plant based diets and still have plant based diets. Depending on who you ask, they might say there's about 2 billion meat based eaters in the world and about 4 billion plant based eaters.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So, I mean, it's not too bad. They're really holding things up because I mean, if you, if actually that's more than. That's the majority. The. You're saying the majority of the world is plant based diet.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm saying 2 billion and 4 billion. I'm not, I'm not weighing in on percentages.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Yeah. We will go around the world in a minute, but let's go through history for a little bit first. Okay. Because plant based diets, especially in the west, they're kind of like a new thing. Maybe they came out of the new age movement in the 70s and 80s. This is really old stuff. In fact, you can make a really good case that plant based diets, especially like a flexitarian version, is essentially the default diet of humans.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, in some cases, or actually in a lot of cases, especially historically speaking and still in some places today, it's sort of the de facto diet because that's what you have. And you may not have the kind of money to like go get really good meat or something like that. So if you look back through time and you go back to say like Ireland in the 19th century, before the potato famine, they were eating tons of potatoes. There were a lot of poor people in Ireland that were like, hey, we can grow potatoes. They have some vitamins and minerals. Maybe we can milk a cow and eat a little pickled herring. But other than that, we're eating lots and lots of potatoes.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, fruit for sure. This is before the famine when a potato blight came and when the Irish immigrants really started to come en masse to the United states in the 19th century, they were quite surprised at the abundance and availability and cheapness of meat in the United States. And that apparently dates back to colonial times where colonists in, well, what would become the United States were eating more meat than the Average person back in England, like they were eating essentially the same amount of meat as elites back in the uk. And that's the long standing thing where meat consumption throughout history in most places is associated with higher status and elite status. You're wealthier because it's always been harder to come by. While the colonies had a lot more land, so. So they could grow a lot more livestock and then hence eat a lot more meat.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Had a lot more land. Asterisk.

[Josh Clark]

Right, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Everyone knows what we mean by that. Yeah. And you know, there's. Who helped us with the original version of this? Was it Livia?

[Josh Clark]

No, Laura.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right. The claw.

[Josh Clark]

Doctor Claw.

[Chuck Bryant]

Doctor Claw. She dug up a graph basically about how Italians eat. And prior to. Well, not that long ago, they ate what you would call the Mediterranean diet now. And they just called it what we eat. Because that's what's around here, right?

[Josh Clark]

The diet.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, exactly. Fruit, vegetables, olive oil, legumes, fish, cereals. Not a ton of dairy or meat, but they. After, I believe after World War II, they started eating a lot more meat. Before that, it was basically a plant based diet because as you'll see once again. No, no, no, Chuck, they're eating lots of fish. Plant based diet is. We're talking about meat here. Fish get a pass. I guess as far as plant based diet goes, it does not mean vegetarian or vegan.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And Italy followed the same trajectory that most nations do. Once they reach a certain point of prosperity, meat consumption just starts going through the roof. Whereas before in history, elites like individual groups of people who are well off or could afford meat, when an entire nation becomes well off enough, they start buying meat. Meat consumption just goes up. So after the war, Italy followed that. And you'll see, like throughout the world, the more prosperous a nation, the higher their meat consumption. Almost to a country.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Which, you know, a cynic might say, well, if every nation was prosperous, everyone would just eat tons of meat. And it sounds cynical, but like the data sort of says what you just said.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know, if you look at the US in the 19th century, they were roundly encouraging that people eat lots and lots of meat. There was a cholera outbreak in 1832 and the US government said, eat more meat and drink more alcohol and lay off the fruits and vegetables, obviously because of cholera. But there was also just this idea in America early on that like, you know, we're well fed and we're well bred because we eat red meat and we grow them big here in the States. We're not sitting around eating Rice and grains and potatoes.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And that that diet has just spread throughout the world. But again, it doesn't necessarily seem to mean because people are emulating the United States. It just seems like the United States was following a trajectory that other countries are now. Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And hey, what a great time to set up where countries are now because remember those numbers I told you about? The United States. We're going to walk you around the world, everybody. Not in the Wayback Machine. What do we call this when we're just currently.

[Josh Clark]

The Go Far machine.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the Go Far and Wide machine.

[Josh Clark]

It still has that new imaginary machine smell.

[Chuck Bryant]

Nice. Modern day jump in the Go Far and Wide machine and come with us at first to Africa. If you look at continent wide, the stat is about 65 grams. I'm sorry, 65 kilograms of meat per capita. I, I wonder about that number because if you break it down per country, South Africa, they eat about 65.2kg compared to, let's say the Democratic Republic of Congo at just over four kilograms.

[Josh Clark]

Mm.

[Chuck Bryant]

Who's. Who's eating more red meat in Africa than South Africa to make that average 65?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. One thing that I recognized from researching this is that there are so many stats that are so different and estimates that are just so different and don't understand why it's so hard to track something like meat consumption. Like we've got that so commoditized that, I mean, I don't understand how we can't track it even for the United States. You rattled off three different estimates for how much meat the United States eats. So who knows, Chuck? Who really knows whether any of these numbers are correct or not?

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, no one's ever asked me how much meat I eat. I could skew that too.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, really?

[Chuck Bryant]

Have you?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I get that all the time. Usually because I have like a big chunk of like steak in my teeth.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, no, no, I mean like an official study. Like, I don't know how I know.

[Josh Clark]

I'm just kidding.

[Chuck Bryant]

Do any of that stuff. It's sort of like weird black magic to me. But we do know that generally speaking, West African nations eat a little more meat, it's a little more meat heavy than East African nations. But even in West Africa, that's again, I mean, if the average per capita was 65kg, that's like less than half the United States per capita, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I'm guessing from what I could tell, the United States leads the world in meat consumption. I'm sure most other countries, depending on where they Are are going to eat a lot less. But again, like you said, Africa is not some single monolith. It has a bunch of different variation. Asia is the same way. On the whole, Asia eats far less meat compared to one another. Some eat more, some eat less. And you get all sorts of weird little statistical blips that come up from that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. If you, if you look at the top 10 countries around the world with the highest rates of vegetarianism, India and Taiwan are there. So two of the top 10 are in Asia, Japan and China. They aren't on the list of top 10 percentage, vegetarian wise, but they eat a lot less meat than the US at an average per capita consumption under 75kg.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And Taiwan's a good example too. It has a very high percentage of vegetarians, but it also has a really high per capita meat consumption too. So it's just basically wacky over there.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And what this was another, like, if you look at Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal, Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia and Vietnam, they're all under 20 kilograms. And Thailand is at like 25 and Laos at 30. So I mean, that's way less than the 75 average in Japan and China.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I would guess Thailand, and I'm not sure about Laos, but I would guess Thailand is wealthier than probably Myanmar or Indonesia. I don't know about Vietnam, but I think a lot of it also has to do with the religious. Like what religions are predominant there too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Which we'll get in. Well, actually, we should take a break before we do that, but we'll talk about India real quick because they have the highest proportion of vegetarians in the world, close to 40%, 38%, 39% are vegetarian in India for obvious reasons. And 6.6 kilograms of meat per capita compared to as many as 150 for.

[Josh Clark]

The U.S. yeah, exactly.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's very low.

[Josh Clark]

It is very low.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, we promised talk of religion because who doesn't love that? But this is religion as it relates to diet. Because depending on your religion, there may be a lot of rules and restrictions on what they say you should eat because of a bunch of reasons. Sometimes it shows like, purity. Sometimes it's like, no, it shows how dedicated and faithful you are. Sometimes it's like, hey, you good at following rules? Don't eat this on this day and let's see how you do with that. But for whatever reason, there are plenty of religions that have rules sort of surrounding meat, for sure.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Some of the most famous ones are kosher. That's a big one. Where you have to actually separate certain kinds of food. Like you separate meat, separate dairy. There's also like restrictions and guidelines on how animals are slaughtered. So it's not particularly vegetarian by nature. Keeping kosher is. But it makes you so much more mindful that a lot of people just eventually end up being vegetarian just by following a kosher diet. There's also halal is very similar. It has all sorts of permissions and bans and stuff like that on what animals can be eaten. But it's different in that like there's no shellfish allowed or birds of prey, but you can eat rabbits. But they're, they're both similar. Ish. In that you really have to pay attention to what you're eating if you are a genuine adherent of this religious diet that's being prescribed to you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And if you're wondering like, well, how does that affect the rate of vegetarianism in Israel? They are second behind India. That's not the only factor of course. But I think the highest percentage of veganism is in Israel too, which is. Yeah, I don't know why that surprised me, but it did.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, good noted. There's. I think. So this is another thing too. Like a lot of people just end up being default vegetarians because of their religious diet. And another good example is the Ethiopian Orthodox Christian Church which we talked about in our Haile Selassie episode. I think they have 200 days a year that are considered fast days where you just can't eat meat but you can eat plants. So I mean for all intents and purposes you're at least the majority of the year a vegetarian. If you're Ethiopian Orthodox.

[Chuck Bryant]

I wonder if 165 days a year they just party down on some steak. Probably what, Seventh Day Adventist. It's not a requirement to be a vegetarian, but they're like, it's not a bad way to live. They kind of endorse it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Remember they grew out of that whole William Keith and John Kellogg movement of the 19th century.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. They endorse the movement generally. But about 36% end up lacto ovo vegetarians and then 16%, I'm sorry, an additional 16% eat plant based diet with maybe a little fish, maybe a little bit of meat.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Buddhism is very connected to vegetarianism. Like a straightforward religious decree like kosher. Instead it's linked to non violence. Right. So if you're, your religion forbids violence. You can't really cut the head off of a chicken and eat it very easily. People still do in Buddhist countries. But it's much more or it's much less common and frequent. And in fact, apparently In Japan from 675 to 1872, meat was essentially banned in that country because of the influence of Buddhism and Confucianism.

[Chuck Bryant]

You gotta wait on that chicken to die of natural causes.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, you just follow it around like a buzzard.

[Chuck Bryant]

He's not looking so good.

[Josh Clark]

He looks a little pekin.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hindu is. I love that word, by the way.

[Josh Clark]

Good, I'm glad I used it.

[Chuck Bryant]

I heard that word last night on the TV show the Pit and I realized I just don't use it much.

[Josh Clark]

You know what I like that's similar is peckish.

[Chuck Bryant]

I like peckish as well.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, me too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe our musical duo should be Pekid and Peckish.

[Josh Clark]

Oh my God, that is. You just won the band name contest, Chuck, for all time.

[Chuck Bryant]

But everyone would be like, who's pekid and who's peckish? Like, I think Josh is pekid and Chuck is peckish.

[Josh Clark]

It wouldn't matter. We could both be. It would depend on our mood on any given day.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or perhaps we are both peaked. And peckish.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

At all times. We're always hungry and we're always not looking so good. Hinduism at almost 80% eats a plant based diet. But they again, it's not required. It's just like, hey, why don't you do this? That kind of thing. Heavily suggested maybe.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. It's also, I mean, especially since the Hindu nationalist ruling party took over, the Bharatiya Janada Party. Bjp, they have been enforcing like really strict rules that are Hindu in nature against eating meat. So much so that people have been beaten. I think one person at least has been lynched for eating meat or being associated with the meat trade, specifically beef, because cows are considered sacred in Hinduism. And also similarly in India, vegetarianism is linked to social status in basically complete contradiction of what it's like in say, the west, where, you know, eating meat has long been associated with being an elite or having high status. Vegetarianism is in India, apparently.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, flip flopped it. I love it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And if you're like, wow, 80% of Hindus are vegetarian, it's pretty impressive. Prepare for this. Jains, these are the people who are so against hurting or killing anything that they have little hand dust brooms that they carry with them to dust off seats before they sit down so they don't actually accidentally kill a bug. 92% of them and 59% of Sikhs in India are all vegetarians.

[Chuck Bryant]

And I guess 8% of Janes are Bad Janes.

[Josh Clark]

I guess. So I mean, like, how would you show up to like the Jane meeting and show your face?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Or show up to a Jane party with a rack of ribs. That's probably not. It's probably frowned upon, I would say.

[Josh Clark]

I would think so.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so if. And of course, I'm kidding, no offense to any Janes out there.

[Josh Clark]

No, of course not. I'm sure they'd show up and be like natural causes and everybody would be like, heck yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So if you're going to eat a plant based diet, it can look many different ways depending on what you're into. We found some information from Harvard Health and obviously one thing that you're going to do is eat lots of veggies, like Emily does. They say, like, hey, fill half your plate up with veg and vary the color. Don't eat just like a bunch of green veggies. Like eat veggies of all stripes and colors.

[Josh Clark]

Get you some anthocyanins, why don't you?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Also the way. So these are like, if you want to start to get into vegetarianism, these are some easy ways to kind of slide into it. Another one is changing the way that you think about meat. Rather than it being the center or the star of the meal, just kind of put it to the side. Like it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, a thumb sized piece of steak, but I mean, if it more, you know, kind of evenly resembled the, the grain or the greens on your plate, that would make, that would make a lot more sense.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I'll have the creamed spinach side of broccoli and a thumb of steak.

[Josh Clark]

Right. It's funny. So I used thumb. So have you ever heard that thing about a portion of meat being no bigger than the palm of your hand.

[Chuck Bryant]

For like, that's the healthy way to eat meat?

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't think I've heard that, but that. Oh, okay, I could see that.

[Josh Clark]

So not just that. If you cup your hands, that's your serving of fruit and vegetables. And then your thumb is your measure of fats, like a nut butter or something like that. There's a name for all this. It's called the Zimbabwe hand jive.

[Chuck Bryant]

I've done that dance, but I did not know that was an eating scale.

[Josh Clark]

Well, so this guy in 1993, Dr. Kazim Mouji, came up with this way of doing it and it's been widely adopted, but I had no idea that's what it was called.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's a great name. What I Do we host a lot of. Especially in the spring and summertime of people when we go to the lake and just at our house here, we throw dinner parties. We just do a lot of that kind of stuff. And aside from being exhausting one thing. I'm just kidding. It's actually a lot of fun. But one thing I do, and this goes along with how you think about meat and how much meat you have, is I don't cook up, like, 20 chicken breasts. If there's 20 people there. I cook up a bunch of whatever kind of cut of chicken or steak. Sometimes I'll do a couple of meats, and I will slice it all up on a big platter. And then you can just get a portion of something rather than saying, like, here's a gigantic chicken breast on your plate that you now feel responsible for.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

And people seem to really like that. You know, like, maybe I'll have a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and then the rest is our veggie sides.

[Josh Clark]

Nice.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So that's a tip from Chucky.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. You should just set up a carving station and ask to see each person's thumb. Right size.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

That'd save you a bunch of money.

[Chuck Bryant]

Totally.

[Josh Clark]

So let's see what else? Oh, another good one is to choose different fats. Avocados, olive oil, stuff like that. And then just cook at least one vegetarian meal per week.

[Chuck Bryant]

Dip your toe in the pool.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And if you start doing these kind of things, it's actually really easy to find yourself down the road, like, just doing it without thinking about it. And more and more meals throughout the week. Become vegetarian because we'll talk in a minute about why people do this. But a lot of people stop eating as much meat for health reasons or because they want to lose weight. And if you just kind of start, like you said, dip your toe in like this, it just becomes kind of second nature over time.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. You can get used to something like that. And I think what you'll find. If you think you need meat because, like, it's more filling, that's just not true. You get plenty full eating all that other stuff, so, you know, you can give it a whirl. I do that stuff every now and then. Whole grains at breakfast is great. This is basically, again, what Emily does a lot of. Oatmeal, buckwheat, barley, quinoa. Eat like a horse, but not as much as a horse.

[Josh Clark]

This is a big one for me. Chuck is eating fruit for dessert because I don't ever eat something and like a meal of any kind and not think like, okay, now I have to have something sweet.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, really?

[Josh Clark]

I just can't not do it. My brain just is wired that way.

[Chuck Bryant]

I am, too.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Okay. So if you just eat like an apple or some strawberries or something like that, it just short circuits that. It does it for you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I have just retrained my brain to where I don't seek that. And it's not like I was eating dessert every night. Like, the only time I literally have dessert. Like, a dessert is kind of either if a bunch of people are out to eat and it's an occasion or maybe on vacation or something like that. But it's not like even eating out in a restaurant. We never eat dessert like that. But I have found just one square of dark chocolate scratches that itch in a nice way.

[Josh Clark]

That always feels like a punishment to me.

[Chuck Bryant]

Why? Because it's just one.

[Josh Clark]

Just one. And it's dark chocolate.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, you don't like dark chocolate?

[Josh Clark]

It's fine. But it's not going to short circuit that dessert.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know what? I used to not be into dark chocolate, but I love it now.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, good. I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that. I'm going to cut the legs out from under you in a little while then.

[Chuck Bryant]

But I don't do that every night. But I'll still, you know, when I want that. When I find myself like, Got it. Gotta have the sweet thing tonight. I'll do one square, sprinkle a couple of little dabs of sea salt on top, and that does it for me.

[Josh Clark]

My God, why don't you live in Brooklyn?

[Chuck Bryant]

I know. Cause I don't have a mayonnaise store. Greens too, obviously, like leafy vegetables. Salads just eat as much stuff. Like, I love a salad. Emily, she grows that stuff and prepares fresh salads, makes her own salad dressing. She's gotten more into cooking. She never used to do stuff like that at all, but she's. I found myself eating a lot more salad these days.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And then the last one is after you do all these things. Eat more vegetables. Eat a vegetarian meal once a week. Eat a salad for dinner. This is actually the key to the whole thing. Go to bed really early so that your normal breakfast will come much more quickly.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't eat breakfast.

[Josh Clark]

But yeah, that was a joke, by the way.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know, I get it. But.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, well, thanks for the laugh support. You want to take a break and then come back and talk about why people become vegetarian or vegan? Sure. Okay, well, we'll be right back. Again. Learning stuff with Joshua and Charles. Stuff you should know. For adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or osa and obesity, refreshing sleep may be hard to come by. And who likes to lag and drag through the day?

[Chuck Bryant]

OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation that could leave you feeling tired and fatigued.

[Josh Clark]

Loud snoring, choking or gasping for air during sleep could be signs of OSA. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more at don'tsleeponosa.com this information is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Provided by Lilly USA, LLC.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, Chuck, I think I promised before we left that we'd talk about why people become vegetarian. I already said health reasons, which we'll get into more in a little while. But a lot of people just do it because it's just healthier. Like, if you want to eat healthier, most people don't like double or triple down on fried chicken. Like, you instead start turning to plants. You know, like, people just start eating more plants. And it's almost intuitive. I don't think it even has anything to do with the nutritionist set in the United States convincing people like plants are healthy. I just feel like we just intuitively know that that is healthier than eating, like, a steak or, again, fried chicken, which I feel like there's a place for fried chicken. I'm not knocking that.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I mean, as you know, it's my favorite food. And I just.

[Josh Clark]

I heard you.

[Chuck Bryant]

I gotta pick and choose with that stuff, but it's not removed from my life, thank goodness. But you're gonna get lots of vitamins and minerals and fiber and antioxidants in your veggies if you eat legumes. If you're a vegetarian, you probably eat lots of legumes and chickpeas and lima beans and stuff like that. Soy. You're gonna get lots of protein, amino acids, lots of fiber and antioxidants there. And also no cholesterol, which is, you know, I have cholesterol problems, genetically speaking, and a lot of people do. So that's a good way to get your cholesterol down.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And there's a lot of variety in just legumes alone. Like, rather than, do you want the chicken or the fish? There's something like 20,000 species of legumes. And I didn't know this. I ran across this. Chuck, there's a category of food called neglected and underutilized legumes. The Saddest legume. They even have an acronym for nuls. Right. And there's apparently a ton of legumes that are found around the world that are known to like local cuisine that are just waiting to be adopted to kind of make the, the plant based diet even more varied.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean I, I, there's 20, 000. I probably have had five. Yeah, actually maybe more, but.

[Josh Clark]

No, no, no, no. I know what you mean. Yeah, I just had a night. So one of the ones I found was the Bambara ground nut. You would make a trillion dollars if instead of a mayonnaise operation, you opened a Bombara ground nut operation in Brooklyn.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Josh Clark]

I mean, you would make so much cash, dude, overnight.

[Chuck Bryant]

People dislike saying ground nut.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, but that Bombara really sells the groundnut if you ask me.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. Obviously, you know, we've mentioned the concerns with red meat, but with beef and pork, people have been, you know, calling for years for less of that in your diet and you know, health practitioners and doctors because obviously, you know, heart attack, stroke, cancer, all the things that can lead, lead you in that direction once you eat too much red meat.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And the medical consensus, consensus is and remains so that eating red meat, too much red meat is bad for you. Like it just leads to all sorts of negative health outcomes like stroke and heart attack, heart disease, things like that. The problem is, despite that consensus, studies still come out fairly regularly. That question, that idea that say no, that's not necessarily true. And they usually get shouted down. But it's enough that it makes you, like some people question that. I feel like, because the medical consensus is that for now it's probably okay to kind of follow that philosophy that less meat is healthier than more meat.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. Another big, big reason is animal welfare. And just maybe your moral values as a human. That is a, A lot of people switch over to vegetarianism or veganism because the modern factory farming system in the United States is a horror show and everybody knows this. Some people do it anyway, but it's a big reason. Vegans are like, no, all animals have a right to life and a right to freedom. And we're not doing it right here in the United States. So I'm not going to take part in it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's a whole subcategory of veganism called ethical vegans. And I think that they could shoulder their own episode because the whole philosophy behind it and like the way that they live their lives, it's really interesting and something I ran across that they counter Is the idea of carnism, eating meat not being normal. And we just take it for normal. And they, they question that. They're like, who said that eating meat is normal? And that that's like why people, why people like me can feel bad when I pass like a truck full of cows on their way to the slaughter on the highway and then still go eat like a cheeseburger that same day. That we just kind of have this idea that carnism is normal and vegans are like, no, that's not true. So I found that fascinating. I kind of wanted to get into it a little more.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. I'm not gonna tell that story. Mindful eating is another one, which is, I mean, it's exactly what it sound. Instead of falling into a pattern and I'll just eat that because that's what I've always eaten. Or grabbed that thing that's quick and brainless to put in my mouth.

[Josh Clark]

Grab it by the horns.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. To really just have a heightened awareness of what you're eating, what's going in your body and every impact from your health to what it means to the world and to that animal. Just being more mindful is another reason that people will go to a plant based diet.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I think that's how people get to that from like religious mandated diets.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And we'll put environmentalism in its own category because there's a whole section on that. But that's another reason.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, let's pick up health outcomes. Let's dive into that a little more. So one of the things that people figure out pretty quickly when they become vegans in particular is that you can get really unhealthy really quick just eating food that qualifies as vegan food. There's a ton of processed vegan food out there. A lot of times a lot of sweetener, including just sugar is added and just basically eating packaged food or even french fries, as long as they're cooked in vegetable oil. Those are vegan. And everyone knows that french fries aren't really good for you. So there is like a whole kind of blind alley that you have to watch out for when you get into veganism.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I'm not a vegan, but it's, I can still say, you know, word of caution if you go that route, that you have to be more active in meal planning and. Because what you really want to do is eat whole foods and eat real foods. So if you're like, I'm going to go vegan and, and just sort of buy the ultra processed Stuff that is technically vegan, you're not doing yourself any health favors. I mean you're still doing. And as far as your moral values are concerned, you're doing right by that. But you want good outcomes all the way around. So just lean toward whole foods and the Mediterranean diet, which again people around the Mediterranean just call it eating that has roundly been shown over the years to be kind of the. One of the ideal diets that you can lean toward.

[Josh Clark]

I would say the ideal diet. I mean as far as health outcomes go, like I can't imagine how much this diet has been studied and result after result shows that like some kinds of cancers, diabetes, cognitive decline, cardiovascular disease, like these things are all lower in people who eat like a Mediterranean diet, like that's just what they eat than people who don't. Especially regular meat eaters.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. As far as the individual, you know, we'll kind of go through a little bit about like who's deficient in what depending on what you eat. If you're looking at protein and saturated fat, you're going to have, obviously if you're a meat eater, you're going to have the highest intake among anyone and the lowest is going to be among vegans. That just makes a lot of sense. If you're a vegetarian or a fish eater, you're gonna be somewhere in the middle. And vegetarians are more likely than meat or fish eaters to have as a result inadequate protein intake. And vegans even more likely to have inadequate protein intake. I think more than vegetarians.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's a long standing chestnut in like the, I guess I don't wanna say bodybuilding community, just people who work out like hardcore that you can't possibly be ripped as a vegan. And our stuff you should know listener Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein, the guitarist for the Misfits, he is just vegan to the core and he is totally ripped. And in fact he has his own protein powder called Vegan Monster Protein where you can get ripped yourself if you want to and still be a vegan.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think Ripped vegan is. That's got to already be a band name.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I wonder. Yeah, maybe that's his sideband, his folk sideband, Ripped Vegan.

[Chuck Bryant]

You might have a vitamin B12 deficiency if you are a vegan because plants don't have B12. I think 52% of vegans are B12 deficient, 7% of vegetarians. And if you're a meat eater, you have a less than 1% chance of being B12 deficient.

[Josh Clark]

That's a big deal too. I mean, like, that is a well known problem for vegans and vegetarians because B12 is used for red blood cell production, cell wall production, nerve function, DNA production, and it's just not in plants. It's in meat, it's in fish, it's in dairy. So you really have to pay attention to that and basically take B12 supplements all the time to make sure you don't become deficient because it's not good.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. Here's one thing though, and this is something that was controlled for bmi. Even if you're a vegetarian or vegan, you have a kind of a remarkably, a remarkable statistical risk or higher risk, I guess, of getting bone fracture than meat eater. And especially when it comes to your hips, the risk of hip fracture. With vegetarians, you have a 25% higher risk of fracturing your hip as a vegetarian, controlling for BMI again. And vegans, 131% higher chance of hip fracture.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I. So part of it is that B12 deficiency, because B12 helps produce bone and so bone density. But I also wondered if vegans typically get less protein and therefore have less muscle mass on average. Obviously you can get ripped as a vegan, but not everyone does. If you're more susceptible to falling, like you can lose your balance more easily because you have slightly less muscle mass than a meat eater. And then with, with less bone density, if you do fall, you're more likely to break a bone. Just my. I wonder.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah, I did mention cancer. You know, I think we often talk about like heart attack and stroke and stuff like that by eating too much red meat. But cancer is another factor that I sort of briefly mentioned. But if you're a vegetarian or vegan, you have a 10 to 18% lower risk of cancer than meat eaters. Although all cause mortality, that's another good band name. And that's three band names. All Cause mortality.

[Josh Clark]

Peckish and Pekid.

[Chuck Bryant]

All cause. See, that can't be our band name because I can't even say it at the end of the show. All cause mortality was not different, which is surprising between vegetarians and meat eaters and vegans.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Another thing that surprised me is that vegetarians have a 20% higher risk of having a hemorrhagic stroke. So we should say all of this data came from a 2021 analysis of this British cohort of 65,000 Brits that have been followed around since the 90s. So they managed to look at 20,000 vegetarians. So this is a Pretty robust study, and they found that they have a 20% higher risk of stroke. They couldn't, they couldn't determine that for vegans. I think they only had like 2,500 in this cohort. But for stroke at least they weren't able to figure out how that affects vegans. You would assume that it would be even an even higher percentage for vegans. But a hemorrhagic stroke is where blood vessels in your brain start bleeding. Again, that would make sense because B12 helps fortify cell walls and I would think the lack of red blood cell production would have something to do with that too. So I think what we're trying to say, the upshot is it's not just like a slam dunk that you're going to be healthier or your lifetime health outcomes are automatically going to be better. But it's still, I mean, it's just if you're overall or. Sorry, if your all dash cause mortality is going to be the same, then I don't know. I think that kind of makes an argument to eat whichever makes you feel best.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's just a weird stat. The all dash cause. Yeah, I don't know. I can't explain it. Maybe someone will have some more information on that. But earlier we did promise an entire section on the environmental impact of eating animals because that is yet another reason. And obviously people have all kinds of reasons and it's usually a combination of all these things. But we're learning just. It's become plainly obvious more and more. This isn't the kind of thing I think that especially in America, people like to look at a lot in the past, but it seems like in the last 15 years or so, people are sounding the alarm like, hey, besides ethical concerns and health and all that other stuff like raising animals to eat is kind of a. Or the way we do it is a disaster for the environment.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So there's a lot of misleading stats out there that compare the amount of kilograms of greenhouse gas emissions compared to the kilograms produced of something. Right. That doesn't make any sense because a kilogram of broccoli is a lot less as far as food being spread among people than a kilogram 2.2 pounds of beef. Right. You can feed way more people with 2.2 pounds of beef than you can with 2.2 pounds of broccoli. So other people.

[Chuck Bryant]

One and a half people.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly. At best.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

But so some people have said, well, let's just alter it a little bit. So we'll measure the kilograms of Greenhouse gas emissions for every thousand calories produced. And so that makes it a lot more apples to apples comparison. Yeah, but even still, when you alter it like that, the numbers essentially come out the same, which is that meat production has a much larger carbon footprint than almost any kind of plant production. Although there are some surprises. Like for example, your beloved dark chocolate has a larger carbon footprint than producing poultry or pork. Chuck, how do you feel about your dark chocolate with salt on top of it now?

[Chuck Bryant]

I didn't kill that chocolate. You know, coffee and chocolate are two pretty notorious, you know, environmental disasters as well on the. On the non meat side for sure.

[Josh Clark]

For sure. The reason why, apparently is demand. There's so much demand for chocolate that the deforestation that results to create more fields for cocoa production, that just is what's giving it such a huge footprint. And I think coffee's relatively the same overall, though. I found a 2019 study from Sustainability, the journal, and they basically said vegetarians have 33% lower greenhouse gas emissions based on their diet than a vegan or than meat. And a vegan diet has 53% lower greenhouse gas emissions. That's just how it goes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And if you're like, well, I like eating some meat. The biggest offenders there are beef, lamb and mutton.

[Josh Clark]

I thought that was weird.

[Chuck Bryant]

Beef produces 60 kg of greenhouse gas emissions per kilogram, and a kilogram of poultry is only 6. But you compare that to a kilogram of just some English peas, that's under 1 kg of greenhouse gas emissions produced. So you might think that as far as water consumption goes, the plants would far outpace like a meat diet because you got to water vegetables. But generally there are just a few plant based foods that have a bigger water footprint than beef.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, beef is just the worst offender of all. But livestock, raising livestock in General, apparently 1/5 to 1/4 of all the water used by humans goes to raising livestock, which is nuts. But the reason why is because not only do you need water to keep that head of cattle alive until you decide to kill it, you also need water to grow the grain that you feed that head of cattle. So they're just consuming all over the place, especially as far as water is concerned.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And just so you know, there are like zero sort of vegetables that outpace beef. The two that do outpace beef that I was referring to are chocolate and almonds.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And who considers an almond a vegetable? Come on, give it up.

[Chuck Bryant]

And I think as far as lamb and mutton go, the two other biggest offenders in the meat category only Cashews, pistachios, Hazelnuts consume more water to produce than lamb and mutton.

[Josh Clark]

Hazelnuts are so great, far and away the best nut.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, you think? Not the ground nut.

[Josh Clark]

I haven't had one yet. Well, peanuts apparently are a ground nut. I have not had the bambara ground nut yet. So I should wait and reserve judgment.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, peanuts, they grow underground, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yep, they're a ground nut.

[Chuck Bryant]

I can just see Jimmy Carter holding a big thing of peanuts and roots with dirt falling off of them.

[Josh Clark]

RIP. And God bless that man.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. The U.S. maintains about 9 billion, 9 billion livestock to get the meat that it needs. Or wants, I guess is the better way to say it. And if that grain went to humans, it'd be enough for 840 million people that have plant based diets.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. And there was another thing that I came across that I was kind of surprised by. Totally makes sense. Is if we en masse as a, as a species, humans essentially abandoned livestock production, beef production, or meat production in favor of a plant based diet. Just basically globally, the chance of communicable diseases developing would drop drastically because 75% of emerging communicable diseases are zoonotic, which means humans get them from animals. And we make our closest contact with animals through the livestock industry.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And at petting zoos.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I mean, as long as it wasn't grown in a lab, you can kiss communicable diseases goodbye.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. The other environmental disaster of raising livestock, and this is more and more lately, is the habitat destruction to raise all these animals. You're talking about extinction of plant and animal species and thousands more being threatened in the years upcoming because of habitat destruction. And it's also true for some kinds of agriculture. We've talked about palm oil cultivation being a big problem for a lot of stuff, specifically orangutan populations, or at least by example. But beef once again is the biggest factor. Beef drives 41% of tropical deforestation globally, whereas palm oil and Soy, which are two sort of offenders on the other side, are only 18% combined.

[Josh Clark]

That's all just 18% of deforestation.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. But I mean the one takeaway here is. Is beef. Beef bad?

[Josh Clark]

It's what's for dinner and what ruined the planet.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean it's, it's the, it's far and away leading the way in all the bad categories.

[Josh Clark]

You know, it really does. So, yeah, I mean, this is. We've just kind of touch the surface, especially on the environmental impact. There's a lot to dig into There, if that interested you. But I feel like we gave some good reasons for people to adopt a plant based diet. I don't know if I'm going to fully, but I'd like to think it's. I'm kind of partway there already.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I eat more vegetables now. I eat way less red meat than I used to.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

For just like all the reasons that we talked about.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I cut my four quarter pounders with cheese every day in half and I eat both halves since Chuck kind of laughed at my last joke. I thank everybody. That means we should probably slog along to listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

That was a real laugh. That was an oh, Josh laugh.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I know. I love those two.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right. This is from a Smithy because. Because of us, actually.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, I saw this one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey, guys. I've always had a bit of an interest in metalworking, and as of about five years ago, I've had an interest in your show. I'd say your show has been the longest running podcast of my life, actually. I remember listening to your episode about blacksmithing four years ago, and that kind of set off the domino effect of me getting really into blacksmithing as a hobby. I'm definitely one of those that like to collect hobbies, with most passing in about six months and I never pick it up again. But not true with blacksmithing. I've stuck with it since your episode came out, and I'd like to say I've come a long way with it. I've attached a few pictures of my work, which was very good, by the way, starting with early works and all the way to the two I completed about a week ago. I thought you might be interested in seeing how your show kicked off. One of my favorite hobbies I've ever had. So thanks for that. And that is from Tate Avent. And you can find Tate. Just look up Tater makes T A I T E R M A K E S and check out Tate's work.

[Josh Clark]

Well, thanks a lot, Tate. That is awesome. Congratulations on your awesome hobby and getting so good at it. And we really appreciate you letting us know that we had some sort of small, tiny impact on you. We love hearing that kind of thing. If you want to be like Tate and let us know that we had some small, tiny impact on you, please send it via email to stuffpodcastheartradio.com.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your Favorite shows.

[Josh Clark]

Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA, in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without your knowing.

[Chuck Bryant]

If anyone's ever said you snore loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation.

[Josh Clark]

Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by Lilly USA, LLC.

[Chuck Bryant]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.