Selects: Adidas v. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry

Summary

Stuff You Should Know: Adidas vs. Puma – A Sibling Rivalry

Episode: Adidas vs. Puma: A Sibling Rivalry
Release Date: April 19, 2025
Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant

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Introduction to the Rivalry

In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve deep into one of the most legendary sibling rivalries in the business world: the feud between Adolf "Adi" Dassler and Rudolf "Rudi" Dassler, the founders of Adidas and Puma. Drawing parallels to the infamous Hatfield-McCoy feud, the hosts explore how the brothers' personal disputes fueled the competitive spirit between their respective companies, shaping the global sports apparel industry.

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Origins of Adidas and Puma

The story begins in the small Bavarian town of Herzogenrath post-World War I, where Adi Dassler began crafting athletic shoes in his mother's laundry. His knack for creating high-quality track shoes quickly gained popularity among athletes. Adi's brother, Rudolf, recognized his potential and joined him in expanding the family business, Gebruder Dassler (Dassler Brothers Shoe Company), which flourished with twelve employees and growing demand.

"Their nicknames, you'll probably hear us refer to them as Adi and Rudy," [10:01]

Adi focused on the technical aspects, ensuring the shoes met athletes' needs, while Rudolf excelled in sales and marketing, complementing each other's strengths.

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Rise to Fame and the 1936 Berlin Olympics

The Dassler Brothers gained international recognition during the 1936 Berlin Olympics when Jesse Owens, wearing their track spikes, won four gold medals. This victory positioned their brand as a leader in athletic footwear.

"Jesse Owens was wearing these shoes immediately brought international attention to Gebruder Dassler." [12:34]

However, the onset of World War II disrupted their burgeoning business. The Dassler factory was repurposed to produce the Panzerschreck, a German anti-tank weapon, using forced French labor alongside the seamstresses.

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The Rift: War and Misunderstandings

World War II intensified the brothers' relationship. A pivotal moment occurred in a bomb shelter during an Allied bombing raid. A misinterpretation led Rudolf to believe Adi was referring to him as one of the "bastards," deepening the existing tensions.

"Adi was referring to the Allied bombers. But Rudolf took it that Adi was talking about Rudy and his wife." [22:20]

Rudolf’s subsequent desertion from the Nazi army and suspicions of betrayal by Adi further fractured their bond. Post-war, Rudolf was arrested for desertion, and Adi reportedly facilitated Rudolf's capture by the Allies, cementing their rivalry.

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Formation of Adidas and Puma

In the aftermath of the war, the brothers officially split the company. Adi founded Adidas, focusing on innovation and high-quality athletic wear, while Rudolf started Puma, leveraging his strengths in sales and marketing. The town of Herzogenrath became divided by a river, symbolizing the split between the two brands.

"Adi Dassler said, I will name my company Adidas." [27:09]

The distinct paths of Adidas and Puma led to fierce competition, each striving to outdo the other in the sports apparel market. Their rivalry extended beyond business, influencing social dynamics within their hometown and beyond.

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Cultural Impact and Modern Developments

The feud between Adidas and Puma not only shaped the athletic footwear industry but also permeated popular culture. A significant turning point was Run-DMC's endorsement of Adidas in the 1980s, which revolutionized the relationship between music and sports brands.

"Run DMC changed everything when they released a single called My Adidas." [40:20]

This partnership catapulted Adidas to new heights, setting a precedent for celebrity endorsements in the industry. Meanwhile, Puma continued to innovate but struggled to keep pace with the emerging giants like Nike.

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Legacy and Reconciliation

Despite their rivalry, both Adidas and Puma grew into global powerhouses. Adi and Rudolf Dassler passed away in the 1970s without reconciling their differences. However, the companies have since moved beyond personal vendettas, focusing on business expansions and strategic partnerships.

A notable moment of reconciliation occurred in 2009 during a friendly soccer match between the two brands' sponsored teams, symbolizing the thawing of old hostilities.

"Today still, it's like you kind of gently make fun of somebody wearing Adidas if you're a Puma family or whatever." [34:00]

Interestingly, family ties remain intertwined within the industry, with members like Frank Dassler navigating roles across both legacy brands.

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Conclusion

The Dassler brothers' story is a testament to how personal relationships can influence business trajectories on a global scale. The Adidas vs. Puma rivalry not only drove innovation and competition but also left an indelible mark on sports culture and the broader marketplace. Today, while competition continues, the legacy of their feud underscores the complexities of family-run businesses and the enduring impact of their early decisions.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Adi was creative and he was the brains, and Rudy was a little more extroverted." [10:56]
• "Run DMC started it all." [39:47]

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For a deeper exploration, listeners are encouraged to read Barbara Schmidt’s Sneaker Wars, which provides an extensive analysis of the Adidas-Puma rivalry.

Transcript

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[Josh Clark]

Hey, friends, it's me, Josh. And for this week's Select, I've chosen our 2018 episode on Adidas versus Puma. It's the German version of the Hatfield versus the McCoys, except with cool sports apparel rather than overalls. And one of the things I noticed at the end of this episode is that sometimes when we're just doing our thing, talking back and forth like we do, we have some throwaway comment or side conversation or something that takes on much greater significance years on. It's one of the interesting things about talking out loud for 17 years, at any rate. Ciroc Vodka, anyone?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Andrew over there, the guest producer. I'm wearing Adidas. Chuck is wearing Puma. Andrew's wearing Reebok. None of us are speaking to one another right now.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's weird. Andrew is wearing white Reebok high tops with bronze pantyhose and orange dolphin running shorts.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, my.

[Andrew]

And he claims he doesn't work for Hooters part time.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, oh, oh, yes.

[Andrew]

I like that. You didn't know that because that means you don't go into Hooters.

[Josh Clark]

No, no, I've seen pictures on tv.

[Andrew]

I had to go, actually. I've only been there once. And that was when I worked at that awful job with the chicken killers. And it was on a stupid work trip they made me go on, and that was like the only place in town. And all these yokels that I worked with were like, yeah, man, let's go to Hooters. And I went in there and I was just like, oh, my Lord, what is. They were trapped in time.

[Josh Clark]

I've been there a couple of times, actually, when I was a younger man.

[Andrew]

It's the same. I imagine it is.

[Josh Clark]

I'm sure And I was there on my 21st birthday in Jacksonville because it was the only place open. It was like a Tuesday night or something. And I was like, this is not the best 21st birthday I'll ever have.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And hey, we don't want to yuck your yummy. If you work at Hooters or if you love going there, more power to you. Sure, sure. Why not, right?

[Josh Clark]

That's pretty awesome that you said you don't want to yuck anyone's yum.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's funny, I was thinking about a couple of weeks ago when it was like the Costanza moment when you thought of a line after the moment when you were talking about how I was crazy for not liking olives and I got onto you. I should have said, don't yum my yuck.

[Josh Clark]

Right? Or I was. It's funny you said that. Cause I was thinking about that later on too. I thought that I should have said, well, actually, I'm not yucking your yum, I'm yucking your yuck. Which is different. Oh, you know, think about it, man. Are you thinking about it?

[Andrew]

I think it's weird that we both thought about that moment afterward.

[Josh Clark]

I think so, too.

[Andrew]

Cause usually we just go back into our hyperbolic chambers and float for the next six days.

[Josh Clark]

It's pretty great life we have. Pretty nice just soaking in our own urine. Don't you pee in your hyperbaric chamber?

[Andrew]

Well, yeah, but, I mean, that's how you're supposed to fill it up, right?

[Josh Clark]

Right. So, Chuck, obviously what we're talking about today is athletic gear, sports shoes in particular, and two of the most well known sports brands in the entire world, Adidas and Puma. And some people might not know this, Chuck, but Adidas and Puma were founded by two brothers who spent many decades of their lives not speaking to one another. And some people might even know that. That they are rival brands founded by rival brothers. But I guarantee they don't know the full story behind the. One of the most bitter family rivalries of all time that gave us Adidas and Puma. And. And it is extraordinarily fascinating. There's Nazis, there's Run dmc. There's all this stuff all rolled into one. And it turns out that this is. It's one of the better stories I've ever come across.

[Andrew]

That's right. And before we dive into that awesome story to head off emails, I know I said hyperbolic inside of hyperbaric. There's no such thing as a hyperbolic chamber. I guess it could be.

[Josh Clark]

It's a chamber that's like I'm the biggest chamber ever.

[Andrew]

Probably so. All right, so this is a great story, and I had heard bits and pieces of this over the years, but it is interesting that Nazis and Run DMC and feuding brothers all come together because, you know, my Pumas, I've been a Puma guy for many, many years, even though I did have a pair of Adidas superstars at one point. But they're two flashy. No, I liked them, but they were. You know, white shoes aren't good on me. I get them too dirty too quick.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So now I just vary my Pumas between the black and the black suede and sort of like the olive green suede.

[Josh Clark]

Usually, you know, Adidas makes non white shoes. You could try.

[Andrew]

Yeah. But those classic white superstars with the three blue stripes, those are the ones.

[Josh Clark]

The shell toes.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Well, I mean, they have some other cool ones too. Like gazelles are pretty cool. Like the flat bottom soccer shoe.

[Andrew]

And yeah, my brother was into. I wore gazelles for a while when I was a soccer poser, but my brother was into Stan Smiths.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, those are cool too. I've got some Stan Smiths that are like this blue mesh. Now that I think about it, if I have a loyalty to either one, it would be Adidas. But I don't consider myself like Adidas loyal.

[Andrew]

Well, I'm a Puma guy just because they look good on me and they're comfy. But I was also a low top Converse all star guy for a while. And in high school, of course, in the preppy days, I was all about the tree torrents.

[Josh Clark]

I never had tree torrents.

[Andrew]

It was a look.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I know for sure those are comfy. I was right after tree torns when I started getting into shoes. K Swiss were in.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah, I never had any of those.

[Josh Clark]

Those are cool.

[Andrew]

And then what was the other shoe? The vans. There's a particular style of vans that I really still enjoy the slip on.

[Josh Clark]

Ones with the black and white checks.

[Andrew]

No, those are cool, but I don't know if I can pull those off at 47.

[Josh Clark]

You could, but people will laugh at you behind your back.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's already happening. Yeah, I'll remember at some point.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, well, just shout it out.

[Andrew]

And plus, I just wanted to cover our basis by saying as many name brands as possible.

[Josh Clark]

Don't forget British Knights.

[Andrew]

Oh, the bks.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. So, Chuck. Yes. Let's start the story, shall we? We're gonna have to get in the Wayback Machine for this one.

[Andrew]

Okay. And this is also full of urine.

[Josh Clark]

So that was you, though. Yes. Let's let everybody know. We're gonna go back to the end of World War I in Germany, and we're going to go to a little town that I'm going to let you pronounce because I've been trying and I cannot do it.

[Andrew]

And I thought it was interesting that we're recording this now because we just acknowledged and recognized the 100 years removed from World War I.

[Josh Clark]

The end of World War I. Yeah. And the beginning of the Spanish flu that killed, like, three times as many people right after it.

[Andrew]

Yeah. That's another celebration.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So we're going back there. We're just going back 100 days, almost to the day.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And so the name of that town is Herzogenrach.

[Josh Clark]

Well, I could have done at least that good.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Herzogenrach.

[Josh Clark]

It's not exactly said that like that. Here, let's play this. Herzogen Aurach. That's how it's said.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. So maybe we should just have that voice say it for us. But we're not going to. It turns out the locals just call the town Herzo, so that's all we'll call it. But it's a little, tiny village in Bavaria.

[Andrew]

They can't even pronounce it.

[Josh Clark]

No. They're like, we're not even going to try. And we were born here. Don't be too hard on yourself, Josh, is what they're saying. So in Herzo, it's a little town in Bavaria, a little village. There's a river running through it.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Significantly.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. And in around 1918, one of the villagers who was born there, a guy named Adolph Dassler, takes a seat in his mother's laundry. His mother ran a laundry out of. Out of their house. And he starts cobbling athletic shoes, specifically track shoes, I think, to begin with. And he had a knack for it. He started making shoes that athletes actually wanted pretty early on, pretty much out of the gate. And he started doing so well, so quickly that within a year or two, he asked his older brother, who is by far the more outgoing, extrovert salesman, y type of the two brothers, his older brother Rudolph, to start selling his shoes, start kind of creating a business operation out of it. And I think within just a few years, they had 12 employees, and they founded a company called Sportsfabric, Gebruder Dassler, which they call Geta for short.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So Gebruder is, you know, for brother. So Gebruder Dassler is the Dassler Brothers Shoe Company. And people were like, wow, so I don't have to wear my high heeled leather sport boot any longer on the pitch.

[Josh Clark]

I don't have to tie some sharp rocks to the bottom of my feet.

[Andrew]

So their nicknames, you'll probably hear us refer to them as Adi and Rudy Rudi. And if you kind of put your head to it, you can see where this is headed.

[Josh Clark]

This is exciting.

[Andrew]

So the laundry business wasn't going well. So like you said, little Adi started making these shoes and things started going great. And it turns out they made a pretty good team at first because they complemented one another and what they were good at. So Adi was creative and he was the brains, and Rudy was a little more extroverted and he was a really good salesperson.

[Josh Clark]

Right. They start to do a pretty good, pretty good business. And it's, it's. If you're like, well, it's a weird thing to start doing as a younger man to start making sports shoes. It turns out that Herzl is like a shoemaking town. It has a long tradition of shoemaking. And in 1922, for example, their population was 3,500, but they had 112 shoemakers.

[Andrew]

That's amazing.

[Josh Clark]

That's a high shoemaker to regular population ratio. So it's not the weirdest thing ever. But they're plodding along, they're making really high quality shoes, like right out of the gate. Adi had a real, like I said, a talent for making high quality athletic shoes. And one of the first things they made were a track shoe that one of these articles says looks like a ballet slipper with some nails coming out of the front of it, the front bottom, the fore sole. And it just changed everything. It was a genuinely great track shoe at the time. The people who were running, sprinters who were running track, they didn't have any traction when they were taking off. This gave them traction and just gave them an immediate leg up over the competition. And so the athletes really liked the shoes that they were putting out. And the company started to grow and grow and grow. And then I think the 1928 Olympics in Los Angeles is where they really debuted their shoes. And a German sprinter was wearing a pair of their track shoes. And all he won was a bronze medal. But he won a bronze medal wearing.

[Andrew]

The Dassler Brothers shoes as a German sprinter.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly.

[Andrew]

So that should say it all.

[Josh Clark]

It does.

[Andrew]

So he was wearing these track spikes and this helped him. This got him a little bit of notoriety. But it was really in 1936 in Berlin at that very, very famous Olympic Games where a young athlete named Jesse Owens dominated and literally tore up the track wearing those Gebrude Dassler track spikes with Hitler in the stands. And people were like, those shoes are amazing. And Jesse Owens was like, it's kind of me, but yeah, sure, the shoes are great, but I'm also a vastly superior athlete to the rest of these chumps out here. Yep.

[Josh Clark]

So that was the Olympics that Jesse Owens famously finished in first place, won the gold and did another lap around the track, went up into the stands and slapped Hitler right in the face.

[Andrew]

Oh, man. Slapped his little stache right off that lip.

[Josh Clark]

So the fact that Jesse Owens was wearing these shoes immediately brought international attention to Guetta, the Gebruder Dassler company. So they. I saw one article that said, had World War II not happened, this, this business would have just gone global immediately. And it started to, but then when World War II broke out, and that was the 1936 Olympics, I think I said the 1928 Olympics. It was, I think the 1932 Olympics that I talked about first. But at the 1936 Olympics, within just a couple of years, the Nazis invaded Poland and were running Germany. And World War II kicked off in earnest, and the, the time for sports apparel kind of got derailed a little bit.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So just like in the United States and actually in countries all over the world, the war effort was. It's not like they were just like, all right, we have a few companies that manufacture military needs for our military and that's going to be good enough. It's like, no, we need to really co opt kind of any manufacturing that we want to. To go toward the war effort. And certainly Germany did that along with the US and kind of everyone else. And everything from Hugo Boss to Lufthansa to these little shoemakers in this small town in Bavaria.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, Their factories were co opted for the war effort, basically. And what the Dossler brothers factory ended up making are something called the Panzerschreck, which means the tank terror. And it was modeled after the American bazooka, which was one of the first shoulder mounted recoilless rocket launchers that had enough power to punch right through a tank and blow up everybody inside. They were nasty little buggers. And the Panzerschreck was the German version of the bazooka. And the German version of the bazooka was created in the Dassler brothers shoe factory.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's December 1943 is when they kind of made the Full switch. And these little German ladies who were sewing shoes the week before were now manufacturing German bazookas. The good news is by this time, because these things were really effective, actually. And had they been brought into the war sooner, things might have really changed. But thankfully, by this time, even though they were doing the job, it was too late. The tides had turned and the Allies were steaming toward victory. And even though they started pumping out these bazookas, it was sort of too little, too late.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Have you ever wondered about the name bazooka?

[Andrew]

Not until just now.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Well, I did. And I was like, what does a bazooka mean? Apparently there was an entertainer. I think he might have been vaudeville, kind of a country act.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

And he.

[Andrew]

Bazooka Joe.

[Josh Clark]

I can't remember his name. Doesn't matter. He created a musical instrument out of brass called a bazooka. And it was kind of like a trumpet and a trombone together. It was a weird little instrument, but he was popular enough that and the bazooka looked like his instrument enough that it became called the bazooka, this shoulder mounted rocket launcher.

[Andrew]

Interesting.

[Josh Clark]

I thought so too.

[Andrew]

Sure, why not?

[Josh Clark]

But the point is, is that all of a sudden, the Germans, who had been totally helpless against the American tank divisions were messing the American tank divisions up. And the source of their power was the Dostler Brothers shoe factory. And you mentioned their seamstresses welding bazookas together. Also in their factory, there was forced labor of French POWs.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Josh Clark]

So they had slaves and seamstresses working together to create bazookas to. To take out the American tank divisions or the Allied tank divisions, thanks to the companies that would eventually become Adidas and Puma.

[Andrew]

All right, that's a great setup. Thank you. That's only part one into what is a very interesting story.

[Josh Clark]

Yep.

[Andrew]

So we're gonna take a little break and we'll come back and talk about what went wrong with these two brothers right after this. S Y L Y S K S.

[Josh Clark]

K. What stuff you should know.

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[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

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[Andrew]

All right, so we gotta go back in time a little bit. Cause we sped right up to World War II.

[Josh Clark]

It was just too interesting to wait to talk about any longer.

[Andrew]

But we need to go back to about 1933, because these brothers ended up fracturing in a big, big way. And there have been some legendary sibling rivalries through the years, but this is really one of the greats. And I believe even Rudy wrote as an older man. The relation to my brother was ideal from 1924 till 1933. Then his young wife tried to interfere with business matters, although she, with her 16 years, had no experience at all. And the warfare began. Yeah, so here's how the story goes, is that in 1933, Adi was indeed married to a 16 year old, which seems very creepy now, but back then, it was not the strangest thing in the world.

[Josh Clark]

Slightly less creepy.

[Andrew]

Slightly less creepy. Well, they just. It was a different time. Okay, so he was married to a 16 year old and tried to get involved in the business. Rudy was not happy about this. And they all lived together, the two brothers and their wives all lived together in the same townhouse. Yeah, which is not a great recipe for success anyway.

[Josh Clark]

Right?

[Andrew]

You know, you need to have your own place.

[Josh Clark]

So you can imagine that all the little bickering and snide remarks and just all the stuff that if you have two couples that don't really, really, really like and love each other, living together will accumulate. If you translate that to a business relationship, it's going to be hard on the business. And it was for sure. So there was apparently a series of just little things like that. But as far as the family legend goes, the real break happened during World War II when the Allies were bombing the the the village of Herzl. And the Rudy and his wife made it, made their way to the the bunker, the bomb shelter. And shortly after that, Adi and his wife, I think her name was Kata, they made their way into the bomb shelter and when they entered he said, oh, it looks like the bastards are here again. And Adi apparently went to his grave saying that he was referring to the Allied bombers. But Rudy took it that Adi was talking about Rudy and his wife. And apparently that was the final straw.

[Andrew]

Yeah, this was true evidence that things were really bad. If something as simple possibly as just a little misunderstanding of whether or not the bastards were the Allies bombing or you, my brother and my sister in law.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Andrew]

So I mean things were pretty bad if this is what did it.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So that's World War II still going on. And at some point Rudy gets called to go fight for the Nazis. He gets drunk, drafted. So Rudy has to go to war. And the whole time he's away, so this rift has already happened. So he's suspecting one, that his brother's wife plotted to get him drafted. And he can't get that idea out of his head. So much so that apparently multiple times he deserted his post to go home to make sure that he wasn't being ousted from the business he'd built with his brother. And then he gets arrested for desertion. And he's sure that, that his little brother ratted him out for desertion, which he may have. And so he's arrested, he's held for a while, and as he's making his way back after the war to Herzl, he gets picked up by the Allies for under suspicion of being a Gestapo agent. Yeah, he's sure again that it's his little brother Adi who got him this time, landed in a POW camp that he stays in for a little while. And it turns out he was right. There is documentary evidence from an American officer who took the accusation down. And apparently it was Adi who went to the Americans and said, my brother is a Gestapo agent, you may want to arrest him.

[Andrew]

What a jerk.

[Josh Clark]

This is the level of stuff these brothers are doing to one another. And the rift just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. There's one other thing we have to say because the wife, the younger wife, the 16 year old Kata, gets historically blamed for creating this rift. I think in a lot of ways, unfairly.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Josh Clark]

She's also the one who saved the family business single handedly.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So in April 1945, the Americans march into Herzl. Those tanks pull up in front of that factory and the soldiers, the American soldiers are out there, like kind of going over what they should do. Should we destroy this building or not?

[Josh Clark]

This is the place where the Panzer Shrek were made.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So Adi's wife Katha comes out and. And she basically walks right up to these enemy soldiers and says, we only want to make shoes. We only desire to make shoes.

[Josh Clark]

And they're like, why are you talking like Colonel Klink?

[Andrew]

And she said, we all do. Oh, okay. And that's basically like she convinced them to spare the factory. They did so. And not only that, the Air Force, the US Air Force set up operations there at their air base and realized that they really liked these shoes.

[Josh Clark]

Well, they found out that this was the company that made Jesse Owens famous track shoes.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And so it went off the charts. They started getting these huge orders for sports teams, American sports teams, because of this.

[Josh Clark]

So this is all going on or it's all starting while Rudy's off in a POW camp? Cause his brother ratted him out. And the business all of a sudden is starting to turn international. Like, like, like you said, people around the world are taking notice of this. Thanks to the American GIs who are coming back with this. Get a sportswear. And when, when Rudy comes back, it's done. His brothers ratted him out. There was the whole thing in the bomb shelter. And the brothers split. The company that they built together, they split Gebruder, Destler and or Dostler and they go off and found their own companies.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Fifteen years after that bunker incident.

[Josh Clark]

Yep.

[Andrew]

So it was. It took a long time to finally boil over.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Andrew]

And in between, there was another war. They were not good Nazis, we should point out, kind of, you know, they were members of the Nazi party. And Rudy did get drafted, but like he said, he deserted his post a lot. And they, you know, they really did just want to sell shoes.

[Josh Clark]

Right. He's like Dwight Schrute's uncle or grandfather who spent a lot of the war in an Allied POW camp.

[Andrew]

That's right. So like you said, they split up the company. And we mentioned earlier that this river ran through the center of town. And I said, significant. And it is significant because it literally divided the town and they set up their business. It's not like one of them said, well, I'm going off to Berlin. They just set up camp on opposite sides of that river. Adi Dassler said, I will name my company Adidas.

[Josh Clark]

Actually, at first they named it Adas.

[Andrew]

Well, yeah, but everyone said, that stinks.

[Josh Clark]

Well, no, that was a different one, that one. There was a children's footwear line already called Adas. So he added the I and turned it into Adidas.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Rudy went with Ruda and everyone said that no one's going to buy shoes named Ruda, especially in the United States. And he said, I don't understand. And they said, don't worry about it. So somehow he got Puma out of Ruda.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Andrew]

Which I don't get, but it's a name that stuck.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And it works. Puma's definitely better than Ruda, for sure.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So these two go off and form directly competing companies that split from the same company that the brothers had founded together, and Adidas and Puma started making pretty good headway out of the gate. First, Rudy had the sales team, had the marketing team, had the ability to move some product. But Adi had the technical, know how, the dedication to making high quality footwear that athletes, like professional athletes wanted to wear. And so he could get his shoes onto athletes who would wear them on the world stage. And eventually his, I guess his tack won out over his brother's. And from a very early stage on, Adidas has always led Puma, at least as far as, like, sales revenue goes.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And, you know, there were mistakes from both of them along the way, business wise. One of the big ones for Puma early on was that Rudolph got into a spat with a coach of the German national soccer team. And of course, all that did was open the door for his brother in Adidas to go in there and say, what about these shoes? Which is exactly what happened. And so at the 1954 World Cup, Germany wears Adidas with those signature stripes. And even though they were not favored at all, West Germany actually won against who? Hungary, I believe.

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Andrew]

And that was a huge, huge deal on a national, international stage.

[Josh Clark]

It was like the Miracle on Ice on Grass.

[Andrew]

You mean they were stoned?

[Josh Clark]

They were all stoned out of their gourds.

[Andrew]

The Miracle on Ice on Grass. That might have legs, my friend.

[Josh Clark]

I think it might, too. That's interesting.

[Andrew]

You need to trademark that.

[Josh Clark]

Well, I do officially right now. Trademarked.

[Andrew]

I love it. So that was one mistake. Adidas would of course, go on to make some mistakes later. I know that you sent that one article where they talked about how they said at one point that yoging, no one's going to do that. So we're not going to make yogging shoes and aerobics.

[Josh Clark]

That's a flash in the pan.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Josh Clark]

Who cares about physical fitness?

[Andrew]

And so you mentioned Reebok earlier. It's hard for the young folk out there who are listening to know this, but there was a time when Reebok was the name in sports apparel.

[Josh Clark]

Well, plus all. Yeah. And Reebok, this article says that they lost their way at some point. But the way that Reebok kind of took the lead for a little while was saying, no, we'll get into jogging, we'll get into aerobics, and we'll make this stuff. At a time when Adidas and Puma were ignoring it. One of the other mistakes that both Adidas and Puma made was that they were so focused on beating one another, they just completely dropped the ball, as it were. On the rise of Nike.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And Nike was able to take over and apparently right out of the gate. And since then, Nike's always been the leader in sports apparel.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And Adidas is two and Puma's three. Right.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Amazing.

[Josh Clark]

So you have an option these days. You can buy your sports apparel from a company that's been known to use child labor or company that used forced French labor under the auspices of the Nazi party in World War II.

[Andrew]

Hooray.

[Josh Clark]

Let's take a break.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we'll take a break and we'll talk about how this rift still oddly carries over in that town today. And run DMC S Y S K.

[Josh Clark]

Skirmos with T Mobile.

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[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

This is Courtside with Laura Carrenti, the podcast that's changing the game and breaking down the business of women's sports like never before. I'm Laura the founder and CEO of Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Your inside source on the biggest deals, power moves and game changers. Writing the playbook on all things women's sports, from the heavy hitters in the front office to the powerhouse women on the pitch. We're talking to commissioners, team owners, influential athletes, and the investors betting big on women's sports. We'll break down the numbers, get under the hood, and go deep on what's next. Women's sports are the moment, so if you're not paying attention, you're already behind. Join me Courtside for a front row seat into the making of the business of women's sports. Courtside with Laura Carrenti is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Courtside with Laura Carenti Starting April 3rd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Andrew]

All right, so back in the day when they first split off this company and that river's running through this town, it was a really big deal. It wasn't just a sibling rivalry. It became a town wide rivalry in that you worked for one company or the other as a family. Like husband and wife didn't work, they didn't split up. And one worked at Puma and one worked at Adidas.

[Josh Clark]

And plus, I mean, if you fell in love with somebody from a family across the river like you, that was, sorry, you got a Romeo and Juliet thing going on, that ain't gonna work out.

[Andrew]

Isn't that crazy?

[Josh Clark]

It is. And I was glad that this. One of the local historians who was interviewed for one of these articles said it wasn't like bloody or anything like no one lost their lives over this. It was just, you know, if you worked for Puma, you stayed on the Puma side of the river. If you worked for Adidas, you stayed on the Adidas side of the river. And each, each group kept to themselves. That was all.

[Andrew]

Yeah, carries over to this day some of those recent interviews that we both read. I mean, it's certainly now it's a little more good natured ribbing. But they say when you walk around this town, walk through a playground and you will see kids kitted out in all Adidas or all Puma, and this is carried down from generations where they were Adidas or Puma families. And it was a really big deal and still remains so to this day, such that the mayor, who actually came from a Puma family. Oh, yeah, but to be mayor, you can't, you know, you gotta be a politician. Sure. So he will wear to some events, casual events, Puma gear and sometimes Adidas gear. Eventually, in 2009, they had a friendly soccer match between the official Puma sponsor team and Adidas team. And he wore one Puma shoe and one Adidas shoe, just to remain neutral.

[Josh Clark]

I guess, and to look like a total jackass, probably.

[Andrew]

So then it showed him rubbing, like his Adidas foot. Later on, they caught him on camera.

[Josh Clark]

So this was like you said, there was a soccer game that was played between Adidas and Puma, kind of a reconciliation thing on International Peace Day back in, I think, 2009. Yeah, that happened. Think about this. The Rudy and Adi Dassler died in the 70s, within four years of each other. This was 2009, before the companies finally kind of had this reconciliation game.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And yeah, today still, it's like you kind of will. You'll gently, you know, make fun of somebody wearing Adidas if you're a Puma family or whatever. But while the brothers were alive, you just steered clear of everybody who was on the. On the other side. So much so that Herzl was known as the Town of the Lowered gaze. Because if you came upon somebody on the street, you would look at their shoes to see what shoes they were wearing before you decided whether you're going to talk to them.

[Andrew]

Isn't that so funny?

[Josh Clark]

It was that established these brothers hatred and rivalry of one another. And they didn't speak for decades, spread out into the town that was divided by this river. And the town itself took sides because of this rift between these brothers that all started supposedly in this bomb shelter during World War II.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And the mayor, Hacker, his first name is German. Could that be right?

[Josh Clark]

German?

[Andrew]

The German.

[Josh Clark]

The German or the journalist is really lazy. And didn't. They're just like, he's a German. We're just going to call him that.

[Andrew]

I wonder if he pronounces it German. That's what I would say.

[Josh Clark]

Or Herman.

[Andrew]

Because they don't say Germany over there anyway.

[Josh Clark]

But yeah, they say Deutschland. Yeah, but would it be Herman or. No, I guess they spelled it Hermanns with an H. Yeah, I think it.

[Andrew]

Would be Mayor German. Haacke, right?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, there is an H right there.

[Andrew]

German hockey Saka who's on grass. But he says if someone comes in through the door, to this day, your gay still wanders to their shoes. It's just in the DNA of those people that this athletic gear is so important. It's so strange. It's such a cool, cool, weird story.

[Josh Clark]

It is a great story of sibling rivalry and bitterness and hatred.

[Andrew]

And like you said, they didn't speak for decades, apparently much later in life. There were a couple of times when they were rumored to have spoken. Once, I think they ran into each other at an airport. Once they saw each other at a hotel. And I believe on the deathbed, which one tried to get in touch with the other?

[Josh Clark]

Rudy.

[Andrew]

Rudy put out the call, said, I would like to see my brother Adi one more time. And Adi went, no, thanks.

[Josh Clark]

I'm good.

[Andrew]

9.

[Josh Clark]

Can you believe it?

[Andrew]

Yeah, man, that's tough.

[Josh Clark]

So they died. The family sold the business in the 80s, late 80s, and they got bought by corporate conglomerates.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Josh Clark]

Ironically, Puma now owns Reebok and Gucci owns Puma. Adidas is still just Adidas, but again, it's owned by, like, a mega conglomerate. And they've just gone enormous and make billions of dollars a year. So the families aren't necessarily involved. But one family member still works in the business. His name is Frank Dossler. I believe he was Rudy's grandson. And he used to work at Puma. He was pretty high up in Puma. Now he works as the head of the legal department for Adidas.

[Andrew]

Man, switching sides.

[Josh Clark]

It's a pretty good indication of how much this cold war is kind of thawed between the two companies quite a bit, because the people who are running it have no skin in the game. They don't care anymore.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Or he's an attorney and he was just after the most money.

[Josh Clark]

Right. He's like, let me suck your blood.

[Andrew]

So we have a fun little postscript on this. I know we've been talking about Run dmc. And again, you youngins, it might be second nature now to associate athletic gear and hip hop and rap music and culture, but back in the early 1980s, that was not the case until Run DMC came along.

[Josh Clark]

No, like, your rapper's probably dressed like a Ghanan king or maybe like the New York Dolls.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Or just like. I mean, sometimes I feel like I've seen just like denim jackets and just sort of like, just sort of street wear, which is the unhippest thing I've ever said.

[Josh Clark]

It was pretty unhip. I didn't want to say anything, but I'm glad.

[Andrew]

Streetwear.

[Josh Clark]

So, you know, play clothes. So Run DMC changed everything when they released a single called My Adidas.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And I saw elsewhere that they released a single, My Adidas, kind of in retaliation to my pullman a song called Felon Shoes. So have you ever noticed that Run DMC wore their Adidas without laces with the tongues popped out?

[Andrew]

Oh, I noticed.

[Josh Clark]

That was supposedly because that's how people in prison had to wear their shoes because they weren't allowed to have shoelaces. And they were kind of saying, like, we're down with all of our buddies in prison.

[Andrew]

Interesting.

[Josh Clark]

So this song, Felon Shoes, basically was making fun of that and basically teaching kids not to emulate prisoners. And Run DMC took issue with it and they ended up releasing My Adidas, the song on raising hell in 1986. Sorry. Raisin hell.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

Which I remember my family was on a bus to Disney World once, I think, and the windows were foggy and I was so into Run dmc, I just wrote Raisin Hell in the fog on the window.

[Andrew]

Dude.

[Josh Clark]

People on the bus thought that was really hilarious.

[Andrew]

That is a great story.

[Josh Clark]

So I was into my Adidas too, because of Run dmc. But it wasn't just me. Apparently, if you went to a Run DMC show on. On the Raisin Hell tour or the Together forever tour in 1986 or 87, when they sang My Adidas, everybody would take off their shoes and hold their Adidas in the air.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

That's how big of an impact this song had.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And in 1986, a senior employee at Adidas named Angelo Anastasio went to that tour at Madison Square Garden, saw this happen with the Adidas sneakers and was like, hold on a minute. Wait just a second. We could have something here. Ran back to the headquarters, and within just a few days, they signed them to a million dollar endorsement deal. And that was like a sea change forward for hip hop groups getting money in all sorts of ways.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And apparently it made Adidas sales just go through the roof.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah. And it's like that began the marriage of like, I'm going to put out a record, I'm going to get a shoe deal. I might get a vodka sponsor. Like, I'll get money flowing in from all kinds of directions. And Run DMC started it all.

[Josh Clark]

Vodka's sponsor. That's hilarious.

[Andrew]

Sure. I feel like I've seen that. No.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, you totally have. Like P. Diddy and Ciroc Vodka, I think.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Look, it works. I associate P. Diddy and Ciroc Vodka.

[Andrew]

Andrew's nodding. That means you're correct.

[Josh Clark]

Awesome. Thanks, Andrew.

[Andrew]

Jerry would have been like, what? My miso's getting cold.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Can you guys hurry up? We will hurry up. Ghost of Jerry if you want to know anything else about Adidas and Puma, well, just go start reading up more. There's actually a book by a woman named Barbara Schmidt called Sneaker wars, appropriately all about the rift between Adidas and Puma. So if you want to know more about it, that's a pretty good place to start. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I'm going to call this Sponges.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Hey, guys. I was listening to Pando and I was excited. Y'all mentioned glass sponges, which are thought to be the oldest animals on Earth. I am a PhD student at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego, and I study marine sponges because they make all sorts of unique molecules that can be used as new medicines. I think sponges are the coolest animals on Earth and I'd love to share some of my favorite sponge fun facts. You ready?

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Not only are sponges thought to be the oldest living single living animals on Earth, but some evolutionary biologists even think sponges were the first animals to ever evolve. In other words, our last common animal ancestor could very well have been a sponge.

[Josh Clark]

That's so cool.

[Andrew]

Did you know the first antiviral drug approved by the FDA was developed from a molecule in a sea sponge?

[Josh Clark]

I didn't until just now.

[Andrew]

As a PhD student, I collect and study sponges because they are known to produce thousands of bioactive molecules, many of which have medicinal potential. I think it's pretty incredible that the ocean may hold the cure to some of the most devastating human diseases. And I hope my work might inspire people to protect the world's oceans and the valuable resources within them.

[Josh Clark]

That's awesome.

[Andrew]

Heck yeah. Thanks for all the hard work you guys put into the show. Y'all have kept me company on many a long night in the lab with my sponges.

[Josh Clark]

That's awesome. It makes me want to go chew on a sponge and see what happens.

[Andrew]

That's right. That's from Kayla Wilson from San Diego.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks a lot, Kayla. Thanks for the work you're doing, too. Thank you for saving humanity from grave diseases.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we'll look into these sponges, as you call them.

[Josh Clark]

If you want us to look into anything that we put in scare quotes, well, we want to know about it. You can go on to our website stuff you should know dot com. Follow us on our social links there. You can get in touch with us. You can also send us a good old fashioned email. Wrap it up, spank that thing on the bottom and send it off to stuff podcast at How Stuff Works.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the.

[Andrew]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Listen to your favorite show.