Selects: How Itching Works

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Stuff You Should Know"
Episode: "How Itching Works"
Release Date: February 1, 2025
Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Stuff You Should Know, hosts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve deep into the enigmatic world of itching. They explore the biological mechanisms, historical research, personal experiences, and complex cases that shed light on why we itch and the intricate itch-scratch cycle that many find irresistible.

Defining Itch: A Historical Perspective

The conversation begins with a foundational definition of itch, credited to Samuel Hoffenrefer from 1660.

• Chuck Bryant [05:14]: "An itch is an unpleasant sensation that provokes the desire to scratch. Pretty simple."

Josh emphasizes the enduring accuracy of this definition in medical literature, highlighting how foundational it remains in understanding pruritus.

Biological Mechanisms of Itching

Josh and Chuck explore the science behind itching, focusing on histamine release and the role of specialized nerve cells.

• Josh Clark [22:32]: "What happened was something in the cement... reacted chemically with the mast cells in your skin and histamine was released."

They discuss how histamine interacts with C fibers—specialized nerve cells responsible not just for pain but significantly for itch sensations.

• Chuck Bryant [23:03]: "C fibers aren't just limited to itching. I think only about 5% handle that. And most of the rest are for pain."

The hosts delve into neurotransmitters involved in the itch pathway, such as natriuretic polypeptide B (NPPB) and gastrin-releasing peptide receptors, which facilitate the transmission of itch signals to the brain.

The Itch-Scratch Cycle Explained

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to unraveling the itch-scratch cycle—a vicious loop that perpetuates the sensation of itching.

• Josh Clark [29:24]: "There's something called the itch scratch cycle. You have an irresistible urge to scratch the itch."

They explain how scratching activates pain receptors, releasing serotonin and other neurochemicals that not only alleviate but can exacerbate the itch, leading to more scratching.

• Chuck Bryant [29:49]: "So your itch not only comes back, it gets worse."

Types of Itching: Beyond the Common Scratch

The discussion categorizes itching into four types: pruritic, neuropathic, neurogenic, and psychogenic.

• Josh Clark [43:15]: "You don't actually have an itch, although you're experiencing the itch sensation."

They highlight the challenges in treating chronic itches, especially those not caused by external stimuli like histamines, emphasizing the complexity of neurogenic and psychogenic itches.

Case Study: The Extreme Itch

Referencing Dr. Atul Gawande's insightful article, the hosts recount a harrowing case of a woman suffering from chronic itch.

• Chuck Bryant [37:03]: "Most of the article was focused on a patient, a woman in Massachusetts that they named M."

This patient endured such severe itching that she scratched through her skull, a testament to the debilitating nature of chronic itch conditions and the limitations of existing medical interventions.

• Josh Clark [38:45]: "She scratched her scalp so much that she scratched through her skull."

Personal Experiences with Itching

Chuck shares a personal anecdote about developing contact dermatitis from working with cement, illustrating the real-life impacts of itch-inducing substances.

• Chuck Bryant [16:05]: "I did okay. In those awesome showers."

He discusses various treatments he employed, including Benadryl sprays and steroids, to manage his discomfort, providing listeners with relatable insights into coping mechanisms.

Psychogenic Itch and Mental Health

The hosts explore the psychological dimensions of itching, discussing conditions like delusional parasitosis and referencing cultural representations such as the movie "Safe."

• Chuck Bryant [46:53]: "I don't know, Todd Haynes' movie Safe... it was about a woman who kind of slowly drifted into madness from believing that the world was poisoning her."

They contemplate the intersection of mental health and itch perception, questioning whether future neuroscience advancements might reclassify certain psychogenic itches.

Current Treatments and Future Directions

While pruritic itches have accessible treatments like antihistamines, the other types remain challenging to address. Josh and Chuck discuss ongoing research efforts aimed at understanding and potentially mitigating neurogenic and psychogenic itches.

• Josh Clark [44:18]: "Between that and cortisone and then the Benadryl at night, I did okay."

They express optimism about future breakthroughs, though they acknowledge the complexities involved in targeting specific neurochemicals without unintended consequences.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a reflection on the multifaceted nature of itching. Josh and Chuck underscore that itching is more than a mere inconvenience; it's a complex sensory experience with deep biological and psychological roots.

• Josh Clark [50:14]: "There's still plenty of mysteries around itches. Why, say, does a feather tickle? Sometimes. But itch other times, big question. They don't know."

They encourage listeners to appreciate the intricate science behind everyday sensations and to stay informed about ongoing research that continues to unravel the mysteries of itching.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Chuck Bryant [05:14]: "An itch is an unpleasant sensation that provokes the desire to scratch. Pretty simple."

• Josh Clark [22:32]: "What happened was something in the cement... reacted chemically with the mast cells in your skin and histamine was released."

• Josh Clark [29:24]: "There's something called the itch scratch cycle. You have an irresistible urge to scratch the itch."

• Chuck Bryant [37:03]: "Most of the article was focused on a patient, a woman in Massachusetts that they named M."

• Josh Clark [43:15]: "You don't actually have an itch, although you're experiencing the itch sensation."

• Chuck Bryant [05:14]: "An itch is an unpleasant sensation that provokes the desire to scratch. Pretty simple."

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Final Thoughts:

Josh and Chuck provide a comprehensive exploration of itching, blending scientific explanations with personal stories and real-world cases. This episode not only educates listeners about the biology of itching but also highlights the profound effects it can have on individuals' lives, urging a deeper understanding and compassionate approach to those suffering from chronic itch conditions.

Transcript

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[Chuck Bryant]

Hi everybody. Chuck here. It's May 9, 2017 and podcast time. I know it's really 2025, but we're going all the way back to May of 2017 to talk about itching. Oh boy. Just seeing that title probably makes you itch. And that's one of the deals with itching, if I remember correctly. So I hope you dig it and I hope you're not too itchy right now.

[Katherine Legge]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Rowland. So this is Stuff youf Should Know Scratching Edition.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, this is one of many.

[Josh Clark]

You remember when we did yawning?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's the only one I can think of where just researching something makes you do the thing you're researching. This definitely happened with this one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, well, we ran across that and poison ivy and scabies for sure.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And talked about some of this stuff. But I think itch. We had an itch we needed to scratch with this particular topic.

[Josh Clark]

Well, I'm glad. I've been wanting to do this one for a while.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. You did a video about this, right? Yes, a short video.

[Josh Clark]

No, it was three, four hours long.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

If I remember correctly, does that mean.

[Chuck Bryant]

We have to do this? Do I have to be here for the next four hours?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, we have to just play the whole thing, and then we'll talk about it for an hour afterwards.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sounds good.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. I think it was a brain stuff video, wasn't it?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I watched it.

[Josh Clark]

Did it scratch your itch?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I watched it yesterday.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Nice work.

[Josh Clark]

Thank you very much. You're just like, now we finally arrive at what I was after.

[Chuck Bryant]

Compliment. Yeah, no, it was great.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks, man. So I guess the. The point of all that is to say, you guys are going. You're going, right? My videos are the best. That you're going to scratch. You're going to feel an itch, which is one of the great mysteries of itches. It turns out we only very, very recently have started to get a handle on what itches are.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And there's still plenty of mysteries left to it. Like, for example, it's bizarre. And there's really no evolutionary reason as far as anyone can tell, why just hearing about itches or seeing someone else scratch can make you itch.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

That's odd. That's weird.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or seeing a video of an ant crawling up an arm will make you itch.

[Josh Clark]

It will. But I mean, think about it. If somebody is sitting there, you see a video of some schmo who's got his hand, like, near an oven, and he pulls it away really quick, it doesn't hurt your hand. It doesn't make you feel like your hand is burned. No, that doesn't happen.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't even think that would excite mirror neurons like a leg break would.

[Josh Clark]

No, you're just like, what a stupid idiot. That's what it excites. You know, I hope that guy's hand just burns clean off. That's what I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right, right.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

You sourced a couple of. Well, we had our own article on howstuffworks.com but you also sent this great New Yorker article written by Dr. Atul.

[Josh Clark]

Gawande, one of the best names in writing today.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that may be my new hotel name.

[Josh Clark]

Well, you may be thronged by science fans because that guy's pretty well known.

[Chuck Bryant]

Actually, I've never used to alias at a hotel. That's dumb. I don't even know if you can. Can you? I guess if you're a big shot, you can.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. But you have to be like, I'm not Brad Pitt. I'm Atul Gawande.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. But we'll get to some of the more interesting aspects of that article later. Specifically, a very specific patient that's quite distressing.

[Josh Clark]

So calm down for now. A tools mom. We'll get to It.

[Chuck Bryant]

Eventually, he did include a couple of neat historical tidbits. Like, in 1660, there was a. And Germans are all over this thing for some reason.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know, researchers that they're. They're all German.

[Josh Clark]

They had the itch to explain the itch.

[Chuck Bryant]

I guess so.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

The itch.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

But there was A physician in 1660 named Samuel Hoffenrefer. Actually, that's my new hotel name.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's a good one. He kind of. Well, he defined it by saying an itch is an unpleasant sensation that provokes the desire to scratch. Pretty simple. Yeah, but right. On the money it is.

[Josh Clark]

And actually, it's so on the money that anywhere you look in the medical literature, whenever they define itch word for word, that's the definition they use.

[Chuck Bryant]

The Hoffenrefer.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Although poor Hoffenrefer doesn't get credit for it all the time. But that's the one. The only expansion of that that I've seen is that can occur anywhere on the body, which apparently is true.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think Hoffenrefer. He felt that was implied.

[Josh Clark]

Right. It's like it goes without saying.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I'm scratching right now, by the way. Yeah. It started.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know if I just noticed more, because as I was doing it, I was thinking, well, now I'm scratching. Then I thought, do I always scratch this much or itch this much?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I hadn't thought about that. I'm pretty sure that I was. I don't think I scratch as much as. I don't know. You raise a really good question.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe we can get an intern to follow us around and just record our scratching.

[Josh Clark]

Right. I'm surprised that that's not already a TV show, frankly. Josh and Chuck scratch just being followed around.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Oh, you know, no one wants to see that.

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's probably why it's not.

[Chuck Bryant]

You're scratching.

[Josh Clark]

See, that's what I'm saying. I don't think I scratched this much.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't notice it. All right, moving on to Dante's Inferno. It was in Dante's Inferno, the burning rage of fierce itching that nothing could relieve is how falsifiers were punished.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Do you know what a falsifier is?

[Chuck Bryant]

Us.

[Josh Clark]

No, really? Like, isn't that somebody who bears false witness or somebody who falsifies a document? I don't know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Is it just a fancy name for liar?

[Josh Clark]

Maybe.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, I thought you were going to tell me you were just wondering.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, well, I don't know. What Dante meant. But they're. They're bad people.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. Apparently there's a special place in health form. Literally. Well, I guess actually not literally.

[Chuck Bryant]

Figuratively.

[Josh Clark]

Sure, literarily.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, very nice. So itching scientifically is known as pruritus P R U R I T I S. Yeah, it's one of those tough to pronounce things for me at least. And for. Well, actually they still believe that the evolution of the itch was to help humans survive, basically because so many things that can kill you in nature are things like mosquitoes or flies or spiders or fleas that can have like malaria or the plague or any number of diseases attached to their tiny little insect bodies.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

So hey, human, you've got a mosquito on your neck that could kill you. You might want to slap it or scratch.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And that's still, as far as I know, the evolutionary hypothesis for why we experience itching. And it's not just us either.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, you're scratching like crazy now.

[Josh Clark]

It's found throughout the animal kingdom from us to. Apparently fish have shown scratching behavior.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Josh Clark]

Fruit flies.

[Chuck Bryant]

How does the fish scratch, you might ask?

[Josh Clark]

It rubs up against rocks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's kind of cute.

[Josh Clark]

It is a little cute.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's like I remember my dad did like the. Who was the bear and Jungle Book. Was that Baloo? Yes, he would do the Baloo where he would get up against a tree or a wall and then I did it, probably because of that. I'm sure that's where I got it and realize that it works and I still do it every now and then.

[Josh Clark]

Oh yeah?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I look kind of silly, but.

[Josh Clark]

Do you sing while you do it?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Bare Necessities. That's still my favorite.

[Josh Clark]

What else are you going to sing? Like Mambo Number five.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm going to start doing that actually. You'd be like, I think something's wrong with Chuck.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So like you said, though, it was up until almost. What was it, 1987, the mid to late 80s.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

That another German ho Handwerker and his gang of toughs, they started to do actual like research about it. They were puzzled and wanted to solve it.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Because up to this point, up to actually 1987, everyone thought that an itch was just a low grade pain stimulus. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I guess they were happy with that.

[Josh Clark]

That's just what they thought it was.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And Hanwerker said, you know what, let's find out if this is actually true. I'm tired of sitting around just assuming this is fine. I'm a handwerker. And he got to work with his hands testing this. Right. So what he. I know is like Jonathan Strickland level puns. What he did was, this is just awful.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

He introduced, using, like, electrical stimulation, I guess. He introduced histamine to skin cells. Right. And histamine is a natural. I don't know if it's a protein, but it's a natural compound. Natural chemical. Right. That the body releases in response to certain stimuli. Say, for example, like a mosquito bite or something. And it triggers the inflammation and immune response in that area. Right. So histamine is associated with itch, and it had been for a very long time. So this guy was using electrical stimulation to introduce histamine in increasing amounts in these poor study participants. And it went from barely noticeable to, this is a quote, the maximum imaginable itch. And they never felt painful.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Like, even though they ramped it up to 11, no one ever said, like, holy crap, that hurts.

[Josh Clark]

They said, please, please, for the love of God, stop, let me out of this. And Hanwerker just cackled and cackled. Right. These men with like, black leather gloves were holding the participants down.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. They said, this is not worth the five Deutschmarks that I'm getting for this lousy study.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. That's nice, man. This would have been pre Euro, I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Even though the EU was around, I don't think the Euro was around in 87, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, no, it was the 90s. I traveled to Europe in 1997 and I was still on all that weird money.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So it was a while after that. So now scientists. I think this sort of introduced an itch to the scientific community because after hundreds and hundreds of years, Hanvoce sort of disrupted the thought process of the itch and the scratch.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

And all of a sudden scientists were like, oh, well, maybe we should start looking into this. Maybe we can actually isolate the nerve and figure this thing out. Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Because, I mean, if it's not. If it's not just a low level pain sensation, then that means it's its own thing. And if it's its own thing, it probably has its own system and we need to know more about it. So they got to studying it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I wonder if all of this was under the notion that they were trying to cure itching.

[Josh Clark]

I don't know, because from what I was reading, and all of this was pretty recent stuff. There is a real unmet medical need in dealing and addressing chronic itch. Because most people who Go through life just experiencing itch under normal circumstances, right? Like, say you or me, we're like an itch. Yeah, they suck for a second and then it goes away. Imagine it not going away ever. Whether you're asleep or awake or swimming or in outer space or doing whatever, you're itching constantly. Supposedly it has as much of a pronounced effect on a patient's life as chronic pain does. It's constant, persistent and agonizing, and it's not being met or treated because it's not understood. So they're just now starting to get into pain or itch research. I saw that somebody put it where pain research was about 20 years ago. So it's starting to really heat up, but we're still just starting to understand it. So I would think that they weren't looking to cure it. I think it was just pointed out that there was this whole branch of neuroscience that was totally not understood. So get to work. Neurologists.

[Chuck Bryant]

I wonder. I never really thought about it until just now, but I wonder what happens when a performer or somebody that is in the public eye or on TV or on stage or like the president giving a address, like, what. What do they do if they have poison ivy or some other kind of contact dermatitis? Have you ever thought about that? Like, what if Lynn Manuel Miranda has, like, really bad case of poison? I guess they can get an understudy in that case.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

But you can't have an understudy as president.

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

Which is too bad.

[Josh Clark]

You just go out there with your hands bandaged up, just holding them up.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like, how do you fight that poison ivy on camera? Or like a news anchor when they're just like, oh, my God, I'm dying?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know.

[Chuck Bryant]

I guess a news anchor can tape things, but I'm talking about live. What does Tom Petty do, for God's sakes?

[Josh Clark]

Tom Petty grins and bears it. He had a hard scrabble childhood.

[Chuck Bryant]

He sure did.

[Josh Clark]

Prepared him for that.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm going to see him tomorrow night.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, Nice. Tell him I said about that.

[Chuck Bryant]

We're meeting for coffee. He's not performing anyway. I was just curious about that.

[Josh Clark]

Well, it's a good question.

[Chuck Bryant]

Thanks.

[Josh Clark]

Do you remember when Costas had red eye at the Olympics and he was so dedicated to being the commentator, the anchor for the Olympics? They finally were like, you have to stop and no one can look at you.

[Chuck Bryant]

People are writing in. You're disgusting them.

[Josh Clark]

It was gross.

[Chuck Bryant]

One thing that made me think of that is I had recently. You can still kind of see it on my forearm, the scars. But I did a cement job building this fence, putting in a gate. Gate at my house. And Scotty. You know Scotty.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

He and I built. Huh?

[Josh Clark]

Pippin.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not Scotty. Pippin. He and I built this thing together. And we sank these huge posts for this gate. And I didn't know that cement could cause contact dermatitis or even burns. Never knew this.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And we were. It was kind of a tight spot, and we couldn't get shovels in there in the hole. So we were literally mixing this stuff, like, up to our elbows with our arms. And I was like, this kind of feels good. I even said, like, you know, like, oatmeal or something. And then two days later, my right arm was just covered in the nastiest dermatitis I've ever seen.

[Josh Clark]

Wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

And then he got it. Yeah. It's still, like, kind of hanging around. So I went and got a prescription for steroids, which made me a little crazy for a week and a half.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Did you trash the gate and have to start over?

[Chuck Bryant]

No. I think I was probably not the best husband, though, I see over that time period. Yeah. Judging from Emily saying, hey, you're a real a hole. Get off the steroids.

[Josh Clark]

Gotcha. Get off the juice.

[Chuck Bryant]

I was like, shut up.

[Josh Clark]

Watch me hit this homer.

[Chuck Bryant]

So, long story short, I experienced this recently, and it was awful. And I can't imagine, like, shooting the TV show or something or, like, doing anything on or performing live.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like, I would have to address it. Cause I would scratch and smack. It was what I usually do.

[Josh Clark]

That's what you're supposed to do, not scratch. I guess we'll just cut to the chase here. This is why everyone's listening. How do you scratch a niche correctly? You rub it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I didn't. Do you know what really did it was the. We have a handheld implement in the shower along with the regular shower head.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And put that sucker on the tightest, hardest, most penetrating flow. And just put that hot water on it, man. And that was like. I think I spent half my days in the shower over that week and a half.

[Josh Clark]

Are you biting down like a broomstick while you were doing that?

[Chuck Bryant]

No. It felt so good, man. I was just like. I couldn't get enough of it. And then the cortisone and all that junk, too.

[Josh Clark]

So, Benadryl, we'll talk about this, because you're raising some great points here.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I just kind of. Did I ruin the spoiler?

[Josh Clark]

No, no. This is good stuff. We're going to analyze what was going on with your arm after this break. How about that?

[Chuck Bryant]

Sounds good.

[Katherine Legge]

Hey, you guys, I'm Katherine Legge. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. I and I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm gearing up to make history, competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events, starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue a memorable career in racing. I'm also gonna bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing, and conversations with the people who've supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from karting to nascar, even Formula one. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or an astronaut, we're talking about what it takes to make it. Listen to Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts presented by Elf Beauty, founding.

[Chuck Bryant]

Partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

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Welcome. My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium and the host of the Ghost Therapy podcast, where it's not just about connecting with deceased loved ones, it's about learning through them and their new perspective. Join me on the Ghost Therapy podcast.

[Josh Clark]

Whoa. My lights in my living room just flickered.

[Paola Pedrosa]

I'm a little nervous. I'm excited. I'm excited nervous. You know, I'm a very spiritual person, so I'm like, I'm ready and open. That was amazing. I feel so grateful right now. I got to speak to my great grandmother Abuela, and she gave me a lot of really good advice that I'm gonna have to really think about.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wow.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Paola Pedrosa]

That's crazy. Yes, that is accurate. Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or Wherever you get your podcasts, Good people, what's up?

[Jerry Rowland]

It's Questo, Questlove and Team supreme. And I have been working hard to bring you some incredible episodes of Questlove supreme with guests you definitely don't wanna miss. Now, one of the things I love about this Questlove supreme podcast is we got something for everybody, every type of musical ever. We enjoy speaking to the people who were the face of some movements, some people you've seen on stage or TV or magazine covers. But we also love speaking to the folks who are making it happen behind the scenes and paved the way for those that followed, you know, keystones to the culture. This season we've had some amazing one on one conversations, like I'm J. P Hill chatting up with hitmaker Sam Holland, Sugar Steve chatting with the legend Nick Lowe. And I've had pleasures in doing one on one conversations with Willow, Sonata, Matreya, Kathleen Hanna and the rza. These are conversations you won't hear anywhere else. So make sure you go back and you check those episodes out. Alright? Listen to Questlove supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Josh Clark]

So, Chuck, you had contact dermatitis, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

I thought it was poison ivy, because that area has some poison ivy. But each of us, Scotty and I had it just on the arm that we sunk in cement and then we researched and found out that could happen.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So lesson learned on that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So what happened was something in the cement, and I'm not sure what it was, reacted chemically with the mast cells in your skin and histamine was released. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Apparently.

[Josh Clark]

And so the histamine sent a signal through specialized nerve cells called C fibers.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Which C fibers aren't just limited to itching. I think only about 5% handle that. And most of the rest are for pain.

[Josh Clark]

Right, Right. So they use the same type of neural pathway as pain, but for itch. Basically it's just like. No, these are just for itches only.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And it sent a signal through your spinal column, and in your spinal column it released a neurotransmitter called gastrin releasing peptide receptor. And so at the skin, the histamine would have released a neurotransmitter called what?

[Chuck Bryant]

Natrauretic polypeptide B.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, so that says itch signal coming your way along those C fibers.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. It makes it to the spinal column and I guess in about 2007 they found that there's another neurotransmitter in the spine That I guess accepts the nppb.

[Chuck Bryant]

The invitation and says, I'm going to.

[Josh Clark]

Transfer this along up to the brain. That's gastrin releasing peptide receptor that shoots up to the brain and it starts this cascade of activity.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Because when they, like after Handwerker said, hey, itching's its own thing, these other researchers went to town and traced and figured out that there were specific, specific types of itch receptors that were dedicated just to itches.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right? Yeah, More Germans. More Germans and Swedes.

[Josh Clark]

Couple of Swedes, but mostly Germans for good measure. Yeah, yeah. And what they found, eventually from tracing this pathway, they were able to follow it into the wonder machine. And apparently they made some people itch and would not let them scratch it. And then they had them lay down in an MRI and they took a brain scan and they found that there's this whole galaxy of stuff going on in your brain that combined is the itch sensation.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it was pretty interesting, too. There's a signature pattern in the brain when you get an itch and a few specific areas light up. One is a cortex. And it all makes sense when you put it together.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

The cortex in this case just sort of geolocates where on your body you're getting that sensation.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So.

[Chuck Bryant]

So that helps.

[Josh Clark]

It's like left elbow.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Or in my case, from right elbow to wrist. And then a little bit in other places, but not too bad. That was the main area.

[Josh Clark]

Is this your cortex still saying this?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, Very complex conversation going on. And then the region. I thought this was interesting, the region that governments. Governments that governs emotional response. So basically, this is your brain saying, like, I don't like this. This makes me feel bad.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. It's the worst thing ever. Do something.

[Chuck Bryant]

And then finally the limbic and motor areas. And I thought this was the most interesting. Those areas process irresistible urges. The same ones that say, I want to smoke crack or I want to eat too much cake. Says you have an itch that is unbearable and you need to scratch it.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And maybe go smoke some crack and eat some cake while you're at it, because that'll help.

[Chuck Bryant]

So I just. I don't know. I thought that was all very super interesting. When you combine that pattern.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's an itch. And then followed by the irresistible urge to scratch it, which apparently research has shown those two do not happen independently. They're part of a cycle.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

There's something called the itch scratch cycle. Right. And so you have an irresistible urge to. To scratch the itch. It's weird if you think about it. Like, on the one hand, it makes sense where you sense that there's a really hot heat source that your hand is really close to, so you have an irresistible urge to pull it back. But it doesn't feel like an urge. It almost feels like an involuntary reflex.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I think it's that quick scratch is almost like, I'm going to kill this itch. I can't wait to scratch it. Like you're almost exacting revenge on the itch for itching you. Right. So a scratch is. It's an irresistible urge, whereas, like, pulling your hand back from a hot source or something is like an involuntary reflex. It just feels different. Like a scratch is its own thing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, it is. You know, they kind of found that out. And Gawande, Dr. Gawande pointed out something interesting too, that I never thought about is that you can have like that short collar, rubs against your neck all day and you might never notice it, but if there's like one little string that's just poking one little area that might trigger an itch.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And so you would think that, you know, itch receptors are super finely tuned and they cover just this one tiny.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like that's what it would seem like.

[Josh Clark]

Micron of skin. As a matter of fact, no. Apparently an itch receptor can sense itch stimuli like three inches away from it on the screen. Yeah. So they're really sensitive.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Whereas pain receptors are that specific Right down to like, you know, millimeters.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And the other thing they found out too, is that not only can they sense it from a few inches away, but it's a very slow acting thing.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Which as opposed to like heat on the hand, like a candle on your hand, almost a candle in the wind. That's super fast. But that explains why an itch is kind of slow to come and then slow to resolve by scratching. It's not like you scratch it. You're like, oh, it's all better now. Yeah, it helps a little bit.

[Josh Clark]

So the itching is a good strategy. If you think about, say, there's a mosquito on you and that's what's making you itch. When you go to scratch it, you're getting rid of the mosquito, maybe even smushed it or something like that. The problem's taken care of. The issue is that that itch scratch cycle eventually becomes a vicious cycle because when you scratch, this is what they think is going on. This is another mystery with itches. We don't understand how scratching alleviates an itch or why we scratch, really. Right. What they think the current hypothesis is that when you scratch an itch, you're stimulating other receptors in the area that aren't itch receptors.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So I got that. But what does that do to sort of like say, hey, body, don't worry about that for a minute.

[Josh Clark]

I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

So a pain receptor is now active.

[Josh Clark]

Right? Exactly. It's sending feedback to the brain saying, it's being taken care of. You can settle down with the itch.

[Chuck Bryant]

Gotcha.

[Josh Clark]

Right. I think the problem is that neurologically or neurochemically, when you scratch an itch, you're activating those pain receptors in the area. Pain, pressure, that kind of thing. You're causing serotonin to be released. Natural pain reliever, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Or at least mood enhancer. And what they found is that serotonin, among other neurochemicals, actually exacerbates the itch sensation. So your itch not only comes back, it gets worse. So you go to scratch it again, and then same thing happens over and over again. That's the itch scratch cycle. Which. It's not the best cycle around. No, you can think of better cycles.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not a bad band name.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

A little too cute maybe.

[Josh Clark]

Prague folk, Prague.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, they'd have to be German, probably.

[Josh Clark]

German folk Prague. Okay. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Another interesting thing they learned too was that I guess we're kind of jumping around, but who cares, right? If you scratch, you don't have to scratch the point of the itch to relieve it, apparently.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like if you have. I had that itch on my right forearm and I could scratch. Maybe it doesn't have to be the left forearm, so it's not like you have to mirror it. But I could scratch, like my neck and apparently that might help relieve it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I tried it. It didn't work for me. No, no. But I think the reason why there's. That's. It's possible that it could have that effect is supposedly scratching also activates, like your pleasure center.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, you bet it does.

[Josh Clark]

But there's different. Different places where you're scratching on your body have different amounts of pleasure associated with them. Did you know that? I mean, I guess. I guess so. But, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Interesting.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, but I mean, think about it. It's like if you scratch your. Scratch your clavicle, who cares? It's nothing. Right? But then you scratch your head right above and behind your ear. It's great.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, and I think they did find that your back and your ankles supposedly, are some of the most Rewarding places to scratch.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly.

[Chuck Bryant]

And I don't know, I never really thought about the ankles, but my mom would give me back scratches when I was a kid.

[Josh Clark]

That's nice.

[Chuck Bryant]

And it was always, like, one of my favorite things ever.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

And so I don't get those anymore now that I'm a grown up, because that's gross. Mom, scratch my back. I'm 46 years old.

[Josh Clark]

Lay down.

[Chuck Bryant]

But yeah, it was like. I think I preferred a back scratch to a back rub, even.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

When I was younger. But now, you know, massage is probably way better.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

But if a masseuse could include a little back scratch in there.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Get ready for a huge tip for me.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or does that. What is that sexual?

[Josh Clark]

I think it crosses a line. Once they're potentially clawing away skin cells, I think that's. It's no longer in the masseuse range or masseur range.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I get that. Once skin cells are involved under the nails, then you're a murder suspect.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Exactly.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, well, should we take another break?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And talk a little bit about one of the most distressing articles I've ever read?

[Katherine Legge]

Hey, you guys, I'm Katherine Leg. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm gearing up to make history, competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events, starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue a memorable career in racing. I'm also going to bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing, and conversations with the people who support supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from karting to nascar, even Formula one. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or an astronaut, we're talking about what it takes to make it. Listen to Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Chuck Bryant]

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and Contributors. And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paola Pedrosa]

Welcome. My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium and the host of the Ghost Therapy Podcast, where it's not just about connecting with deceased loved ones, it's about learning through through them and their new perspective. Join me on the Ghost Therapy podcast.

[Chuck Bryant]

Whoa.

[Josh Clark]

My lights in my living room just flickered. I'm a little nervous.

[Paola Pedrosa]

I'm excited. I'm excited nervous. You know, I'm very spiritual person, so I'm like, I'm ready and open. That was amazing. I feel so grateful right now. I got to speak to my great grandmother Abuela, and she gave me a lot of really good advice that I'm gonna have to really think about.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wow.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Paola Pedrosa]

That's crazy. Yes, that is accurate. Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jerry Rowland]

Good people, what's up? It's Questo, Questlove and Team supreme. And I have been working hard to bring you some incredible episodes of Questlove supreme with guests you definitely don't want to miss. Now, one of the things I love about this Questlove supreme podcast is we got something for everybody, every type of music lover. We enjoy speaking to the people who were the face of some movements, some people you've seen on stage or TV or magazine covers. But we also love speaking to the folks who are making it happen behind the scenes, and they paved the way for those that followed, you know, keystones to the culture. This season we've had some amazing one on one conversations, like I'm Jay Pill chatting up with hitmaker Sam Hollander, Sugar Steve chatting with the legend Nick Lowe. And I've had pleasures doing one on one conversations with Willow, Sonata, Maitreya, Kathleen, Hannah, and the rza. These are conversations you won't hear anywhere else. So make sure you go back and you check those episodes out. All right? Listen to Questlove supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so we've referenced this article from the New Yorker from Dr. Atul Gawande, and he talked a lot about itching and just had good information on the science of it all.

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's what he does.

[Chuck Bryant]

But most of the article was focused on a patient, a woman in Massachusetts that they named M for the article. Just M, the letter M. In other words, you know, she's anonymous. And I think she was anonymous because she kind of had a rough go after her divorce. She ended up getting HIV from getting on heroin. Kind of spun out, it seems like, but then got her life back, by all accounts, but ended up getting shingles as a result of HIV complications. And the shingles went away, but the itching did. Not to say the least.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I think the itching came after the shingles, even. And at first, her. Her physicians were like, well, I mean, you must have. You damaged some nerves in there, so TS for you, I guess.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And then eventually, after treating it, like, all these different ways and it's still being scratching, they said, okay, you're crazy. How about that?

[Chuck Bryant]

Right?

[Josh Clark]

And she said, well, whatever. I still have this itch. Do whatever you need to. To treat it, because I'm literally scratching this itch in my sleep. It was on her scalp, wasn't it?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it was on her head. And she kind of managed to control it during the day, but like you said, at night, she couldn't control it to the point where I think she was, like, restrained in her sleep.

[Josh Clark]

That came after.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay. After they realized it's a problem because your brain is oozing out of your head.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Can you believe that?

[Josh Clark]

She scratched her scalp so much that she scratched through her skull. And she went into her doctor one day and said, they've got, like, this green fluid coming down. And then apparently the doctor faded. The doctor didn't even say anything. He was just. She. Or she was like, excuse me. Went and called an ambulance and came back and said, please lay down and don't talk or move or do anything else. And they finally told her after she was at the er you scratched through to your brain. Like, that's your brain you're touching right now.

[Chuck Bryant]

The doctor's like, very interesting. Just give me a second here.

[Josh Clark]

Please. Oh, my God.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, they gathered up all the other doctors and nurses.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. You gotta come see this.

[Josh Clark]

She said. Also in this article, she said that she had a. What do they call a roommate at a. Okay, a roommate.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So she had a roommate while she was like. They treated it, gave her a skin graft, and then she itched. She scratched away the skin graft.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man.

[Josh Clark]

And then they finally were like, okay, you're going to an asylum. And she's like, do they even call it that anymore? And they're like, just shut up. And they put her in this Asylum and restrained her, like you said, while she was sleeping. And she had a roommate in there she said in the article she heard didn't survive. He had scratched through his carotid artery and died. Blood death.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So they never really got to the bottom of this. She finally got a doctor. Like the doctors were like, it's something that had to do with the shingles. This is what we think happens at her doctors, that the nerve endings around the area where she had shingles were so devastated by the shingles that there were just a couple of nerve endings left. And it just so happened that they were itch receptors or itch. Yeah, itcheroceptors.

[Chuck Bryant]

Bad luck.

[Josh Clark]

And that those were like really exacerbated by the fact that there was no other competing sensations. Ipso facto, there's your problem. Right. So they said, well, we'll just cut the main nerve to your face and that should solve the problem. They cut the main nerve to her face and she said, thanks a lot. Yeah. And then the itch came back and she's like, you have to be kidding me. So finally she met a doctor who said, I don't think it's your receptors or the nerve transmission. I think it's your brain, not psychologically, I don't think it's a psychosis. I think that the actual itch signal in your brain is being set off without any stimulation or transmission going on. And apparently she was right. But then they were like, good luck treating that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. I didn't see much follow up on this. I did read one article that a follow up with Dr. Gawande because there were a lot of skeptics after that article came out that said it's impossible with your fingernail. Because she said she didn't use an implement. It's not like she got out of metal file to scratch through your skull. And he said that his theory was that bacteria, it became infected, had eaten it away such that the skull became.

[Josh Clark]

Soft, turned into mush.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, Yeek. And then people also said, you know, you don't have men and women in the same room in hospitals or asylums. That's false. And he said that it was like the room next door and quit being pedantic.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, really, man.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think people just didn't believe it. So all these folks wrote into the New Yorker, all these coastal elites said no way.

[Josh Clark]

They said a tool, A tool, come on. So the idea though, that even if this woman was hypothetical, I think Atul Gwande is pretty upstanding cat and didn't make this up. But even if, say, she was hypothetical, her problem, what the doctors initially thought it was, was that she had a neuropathic itch, type of chronic itch. But then the doctor who apparently figured it all out said, no, no, no, it's a neurogenic itch, another type of chronic itch. And it has to do with whether it's the brain going off or the nerve transmissions going off. Either way, you don't actually have an itch, although you're experiencing the itch sensation.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, and they also then said at some point she had a psychogenic itch.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

So they basically covered three out of the four kinds of itches. The last one being, man, I have such a hard time pre receptive. And that's what you get from like a mosquito bite.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or if you have a skin disorder, like eczema or something. So they basically ruled out the most common one and at various stages said, you've got this other one for the other three.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Finally. And then again, they said there's really nothing we can do to treat it. The one that they've got down pretty well is pre receptive. We've got all sorts of stuff to treat that because that's basically histamine is being released and your skin is itching. So you can treat histamines with antihistamines.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

You can reduce that response and then your itch will go away.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I took Benadryl at night and they also make this Benadryl spray, a topical spray that just. It really helps.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

So between that and cortisone and then the Benadryl at night, I did okay.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

In those awesome showers.

[Josh Clark]

So the, like the pro receptive itch we've got treatment for, basically.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

The other three, you're. You're in trouble. It turns out as far as it stands right now, maybe five or ten years from now, there'll be something. Apparently there is a lot of movement right now on treating this stuff, but it's like they're having to figure out how to block some really otherwise important chemicals in the body. Like that nppb, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that one. What does it help regulate your blood pressure as well.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

So you need to switch that off.

[Josh Clark]

Right? Yeah, Just turn off the gene that produces that.

[Chuck Bryant]

You won't itch, but you might die early.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not worth it.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

The one that really, I mean, they're all sad. But the psychogenic, when you have a mental illness where you feel like you have parasites and bugs on your skin.

[Josh Clark]

Remember our Morgellons disease.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

How did you said it? Morgellons. Right. And I said Morgellons.

[Chuck Bryant]

I can't remember. I know that I said it the way everyone else says it, though. That's all I remember.

[Josh Clark]

Morgan Lance. That's right. That's how I said it, man.

[Chuck Bryant]

But all this stuff, I had so much empathy for em.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And wanted a follow up so bad to see how she was doing, you know.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And if she kept scratching holes in her skull.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Geez.

[Josh Clark]

So there's. I read another article called Accidental Therapists. It's by a guy named Eric Broodman and it was published on a website called stat. And it's all about delusional parasitosis. But how it's treated sometimes by entomologists. You know, like those extension services at universities.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Here in the US like state universities have what are called extension services where like a scientist will just basically be there for the public to come talk to about whatever. Usually it's like household stuff or farm stuff, something like that. And apparently entomologists frequently are approached with people who are like, I've got these bugs crawling all over me. Here's a sample of them. And it turns out it's like carpet fiber or something like that. And these people just can't stop itching or whatever. But it turns out they have a delusion. They don't actually have parasites. My question is, is that our understanding of it now and in five or 10 years we're going to know that they had neurogenic itches and we just treated them like they were crazy even though they weren't. And it's going to be like a real blemish on the history of neuroscience maybe. Or will this idea of psychogenic itches hold up?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I wonder, did you ever see the.

[Chuck Bryant]

Todd Haynes movie Safe with Julianne Moore?

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was one of his first movies after the Karen Carpenter thing he did that wasn't like. I mean, it was a real movie, but it wasn't released. But Safe was very disturbing. It was about a woman who kind of slowly drifted into madness from believing that the world was poisoning her.

[Josh Clark]

Wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

And like household chemicals and everything. And it kind of started slow and eventually she ended up at this kind of safe camp for people like her. Right. Very distressing movie. And one of her first movies, too.

[Josh Clark]

I'll have to check it out.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's really good.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, it's old.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it was early 90s, I think.

[Josh Clark]

I know you're talking about. No, it's Called the road to Wellville. Is that what you mean?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, it's called safe.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I'll check it out.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's good. Very distressing.

[Josh Clark]

I'm trying to think of any.

[Chuck Bryant]

And that wasn't necessarily itching, but it was just like that psychogenic thing of, like. I think everything in my house is killing me.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I mean, have you ever, like, stopped and thought about something and thought, there's the path to madness right there? I'm staring down it right now. I should probably not keep thinking about this.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't really get like that.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, no, no.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm very easily kind of led on to the next shiny thing.

[Josh Clark]

I got you. Oh, like a bird.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Yeah, basically.

[Josh Clark]

That's probably for the best.

[Chuck Bryant]

It is. It has its drawbacks, though. What else you got? Well, one thing it says in here is that having someone else scratch your itch does. Apparently, does not do the trick. So you have to scratch your own itch.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I mean, somebody can, like, obviously, like, you know, if you're like, a little left. A little left. Up, up, up.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, See that? I agree with that.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, man.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not you, the. Them saying.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like, I think it definitely helps.

[Josh Clark]

I think what they're saying is it doesn't have quite the same relieving properties as if you do it yourself.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah. And if you could reach that area of your back, it would be better than that.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Chuck Bryant]

I got a pretty good back scratcher now, though.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah? What's it made of, bamboo?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, it's metal, but it's telescoping, so it's not two feet long.

[Josh Clark]

Gotcha.

[Chuck Bryant]

But it can be.

[Josh Clark]

But it's metal.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it looks like a.

[Josh Clark]

Like what are the.

[Chuck Bryant]

A bear claw. Not the pastry, but a real bear claw, which actually looks like the pastry.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I guess it does.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's why they call it that.

[Josh Clark]

I never thought about that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Why'd you think that was called that?

[Josh Clark]

I'm just kidding.

[Chuck Bryant]

They actually should call it a bear paw. It looks more like a bear paw. I'm gonna try and bring that around.

[Josh Clark]

Unless you get somebody who really goes the extra mile and puts almonds on the tips to make it look like the claw.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes. And not just haphazardly scattered about. The bear paw.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

That's the difference between a baker who loves their job and one who's just in it for the money.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Couple more things, Charles. Like we said, there's still plenty of mysteries around itches. Why, say, does a feather tickle? Sometimes. But itch Other times, big question. They don't know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

But I'd like to know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, maybe the Germans will get active on this again. Yeah, they're the only ones who can solve it.

[Josh Clark]

Only the Germans can save us. You got anything else?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I don't.

[Josh Clark]

I don't either. Itching.

[Chuck Bryant]

Nice work.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks, man. Same to you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Thank you. And you haven't scratched in a while, so.

[Josh Clark]

No, I'm actually. I've been scratching the same spot and it's starting to get a little tender, so I'm stopping.

[Chuck Bryant]

Man, there's nothing worse than a movie. And I've seen this. I feel like I've seen this a few times in movies where someone is compulsively, like, scratching until it becomes a sore and then they're scratching it. It's just like, ugh, through to their brain. Well, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So I guess the moral of this one is, what would Tom Petty do?

[Chuck Bryant]

I'll ask him tomorrow.

[Josh Clark]

If you want to know more about itching or what Tom Petty would do, you can type those words in the search [e-mail] and since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm gonna call this one of the many emails we got on the swearing episode. Did you notice that people really seem to like that one?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, they did.

[Chuck Bryant]

Got a lot of response, mostly from fellow potty mouths, which were very filthy emails too, which were great. And I responded in turn by cursing at them and my replies, which I.

[Josh Clark]

Hope they enjoyed, in all caps.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I didn't want to be too aggressive. So. This is from Emily Allen. Hey guys, longtime listener, first time writing. In writing about swearing, I should start by saying that it's funny. I'm writing about this episode because I almost never curse, and when I do, it's normally not a very offensive swear. However, your intro made me think of something interesting I wanted to share. You talked about how you really censor yourself during recording in order to keep your show family friendly. It got me thinking about how our dream jobs really shape our vocabulary, how we express ourselves. I noticed a major change in the way I speak since becoming a teacher. I primarily teach kindergarten to second grade students, and I found this really changed the way I express myself. For example, I try to avoid even saying things are dumb or stupid around. Kids will often say, well, isn't that silly? Instead, this works in the classroom, but I often get laughs from friends and family when I refer to a situation silly, like a disagreement with a colleague or something a politician does. There are other expressions I use with kids that often slip into regular conversation as well. The most embarrassing when I am out and excuse myself to go potty. That always gets a laugh. Anyway, just wanted to share and thank you for all the great work. You do learn so much from listening each week and I'm always excited to see the new episode offerings every Tuesday and Thursday. That is from Emily Allen.

[Josh Clark]

Thank you Ms. Allen.

[Chuck Bryant]

Very silly.

[Josh Clark]

That was a very nice email.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

If you want to get in touch with us like Ms. Allen did, you can send us an email stuffpodcastowstuffworks.com and as always, join us at our home on the web stuffyou should know.com stuffy.

[Katherine Legge]

Should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart radio, visit.

[Chuck Bryant]

The iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts are wherever.

[Katherine Legge]

You listen to your favorite shows.

[T-Mobile Representative]

John Stewart is back at the Daily show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondence and contributors. And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jerry Rowland]

People My people, what's up? This is Questlove.

[Josh Clark]

Man.

[Jerry Rowland]

I cannot believe we're already wrapping up another season of Questlove Supreme. Man, we've got some amazing guests lined up to close out the season. But you know, I don't want any of you guys to miss all the incredible conversations we've had so far. I mean, we talked to Amerie, Johnny Marr, Eve, Jonathan Schechter, Billy Porter, and so many more. Look, if you haven't heard these episodes yet, hey, now's your chance. You gotta check them out. Listen to Questlove supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Chuck Bryant]

What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm minidriver and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, and now Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe, and Cord Jefferson. Listen to mini questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers.