Selects: How Miniature Golf Works

Summary

Stuff You Should Know: “Selects: How Miniature Golf Works”

Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Original Air Date: August 2020 (aired as a Select episode on December 27, 2025)

---

Episode Overview

In this nostalgic and lively episode, Josh and Chuck take listeners on a deep dive into the unexpected history and evolution of miniature golf—often known as mini golf, putt putt, or goofy golf. Mixing fun personal stories with historical insight, they trace the journey of this quirky pastime from its Victorian origins to its explosion across America and its distinct variations and cultural impact.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Nostalgia and Mini Golf Memories (02:39–07:48)

• The hosts reminisce about their childhood experiences playing mini golf, with Josh recalling Putt Putt courses in Toledo, OH, and vacations on Lake Erie, while Chuck shares memories of church youth group outings to Putt Putt at Stone Mountain Park in Georgia.
• Both discuss the joys of go-karts and arcades commonly adjacent to mini golf courses.
• Notable Quote:
  “Putt Putt was wonderful and great. And there were arcades and birthday parties there that featured heavily with GI Joe action figures and stuff like that. The good kind. The three and three quarter inch ones.” — Josh Clark (04:27)

The Origins of Miniature Golf (07:50–14:05)

• Miniature golf traces back to the Ladies Putting Club of St. Andrews in Scotland, created in 1867 due to Victorian-era restrictions on women playing “full” golf.
  • Women weren’t permitted to use a full swing: "There was a decree basically, that women shall not take the club back past their shoulder...like a real golf swing...was, I guess, improper for a lady to do." — Chuck (08:20)
• The St. Andrews course is nicknamed “the Himalayas” for its rolling, hilly greens and is still in use today.

Miniature Golf Comes to America (17:34–22:12)

• James Barber, inspired by the St. Andrews club, commissioned the first American mini golf course—Thistle Dhu—in Pinehurst, North Carolina, in 1916.
  • The legend behind the name: "Supposedly, as legend goes, when he first saw it, he said, ‘this’ll do.’ I guess he was not blown away. Maybe. I don’t know. Sounds a little underwhelming." — Chuck (18:33)
• The term “miniature golf” appears in a newspaper account describing early competitions at Thistle Dhu.
• The American courses began as direct, shrunken analogs to “real” golf, rather than the whimsical style known today.

Mini Golf Mania & the Explosion of the 1920s–1930s (22:12–30:53)

• 1926: The Fairyland Club in Lookout Mountain, Tennessee (built by Garnett & Frieda Carter), is credited with launching “Tom Thumb Golf”—introducing imaginative obstacles and fairy tale themes using construction scraps.
  • “They added this statuary of cute little, you know, Mother Goose type stuff, and they actually called the whole thing Tom Thumb Golf.” — Josh (23:17)
• Thomas McCulloch Fairbairn’s invention of cheap, artificial turf allowed for franchising and rapid expansion of mini golf courses using prefab kits.
• By 1930, the U.S. had up to 25,000 miniature golf courses—many built in the prior 6–8 months.
  • “In eight months, like 12 to 15,000 mini golf courses being built in the U.S—it’s crazy.” — Chuck (29:23)
• The Great Depression cemented mini golf’s status as affordable family entertainment, surviving as a pastime while other fads faded.

The Rise and Standardization of Putt Putt (34:02–44:21)

• Don Clayton, in 1954, invented “Putt Putt Golf” after a doctor-prescribed month off work led him to play and critique the “whimsy” of existing courses.
  • “From what I understand, though, Don Clayton was like, this whimsy sucks. We need something better than this. And I think I’m just the person to build it.” — Josh (35:11)
• Clayton’s vision was minimalist, skill-focused courses: all holes are par twos, with standardized and mostly static obstacles (no windmills or clown mouths).
  • The name “Putt Putt” was coined on a whim because Clayton couldn’t remember how to spell “Vale” for his original “Shady Vale Golf Course” name. — Chuck (38:18)
• At its peak, the Putt Putt franchise boasted over 256 courses worldwide; its simplicity made scoring a perfect game (18 strokes) extremely rare—just three on record in 65 years.

Evolution of “Goofy Golf” and Whimsical Attractions (44:21–47:07)

• In 1955, brothers Ralph and Al Lomma of Scranton, PA revolutionized mini golf by introducing mechanized and animated obstacles—moving windmills, clown mouths, and more—effectively shaping what most people today think of as “mini golf.”
• This led to a split: some courses emphasized skill and simplicity (Putt Putt), others focused on fanciful themes and kinetics.

Mini Golf as Serious Sport & Unique Courses (44:36–51:00)

• Miniature golf grew into a legitimate professional sport, with bodies like the US Pro Mini Golf Association and the World Minigolf Sport Federation (Germany) enforcing rules and hosting competitions.
  • “There are actual prize purses…they have their own US Open. I don’t think they call it the little US Open.” — Chuck (44:44)
  • “They should, though.” — Josh (44:56)
• Noteworthy and weird mini golf courses highlighted:
  • Myrtle Beach, SC, called the “world capital of miniature golf,” boasts over 50 courses, such as Molten Mountain (with a working volcano) and Hawaiian Rumble.
  • Algrim Acres in Palatine, Illinois—a funeral home with a death-themed 9-hole course in its basement (48:19).
  • Kiss-themed indoor mini golf in Las Vegas (“not a Kiss fan”—Chuck (49:06))
  • Par-King in Lincolnshire, Illinois—an “ultimate” course blending difficulty and whimsical obstacles (49:30).
  • Golf Gardens on Catalina Island, CA—deemed the hardest U.S. mini golf course, due in part to decades of wear and quirky surface notches (50:24).
  • Florida’s historic mini golf trail, featuring vintage courses over 50 years old (50:46).
• Abandoned mini golf courses as a fascination for urban explorers and nostalgia-seekers (51:00).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Victorian restrictions (08:44):
  “The Victorian era was just so stupid when it came to social constraints.” — Josh Clark
• On Depression-era popularity (30:08):
  “…you could take your whole family out to play miniature golf for pretty cheap, nickel or something. That was a big attraction.”
• On skill required in Putt Putt (41:07):
  “Only three people have ever, ever gotten a perfect game. Which kind of shows you how like deceptively hard a putt putt course is...” — Josh Clark
• On choosing creativity for course names (38:18):
  “He didn’t know how to spell Vale...so he just said Putt Putt and wrote down putt putt. It wasn’t something he brainstormed...just sort of on a whim. And it’s a name that really, really stuck.” — Chuck Bryant
• Hilarious exchange about themed courses (48:30):
  “...you can also play nine holes on their death themed course in the basement.” — Chuck
  “First of all, the basement of a funeral home is just creepy on its own. But a death themed miniature golf course in a funeral home that actually functions, that’s just downright interesting.” — Josh

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:39–07:48 – Childhood memories & mini golf’s sensory joys
• 07:50–14:05 – Historical foundations in Scotland & early U.S. courses
• 17:34–22:12 – Thistle Dhu, the Ladies Putting Club, and early U.S. expansion
• 22:12–30:53 – Fairyland Club, Tom Thumb Golf, franchise boom, Depression-era survival
• 34:02–44:21 – Don Clayton’s Putt Putt: standardized, skill-focused revolution
• 44:21–47:07 – Animated obstacles: the Loma brothers & "Goofy Golf" tradition
• 47:07–51:00 – Mini golf as sport, U.S. and international competitions, unusual courses
• 51:00–53:23 – Listener mail & reflections on the enduring charm of mini golf

---

Tone and Style

Josh and Chuck keep their signature blend of curiosity, wit, and self-deprecating humor throughout the episode. Their playful banter and genuine affection for the subject—and one another—make even the deepest historical dive feel like a chat among friends. They frequently poke fun at each other and at oddities in mini golf’s evolution, creating an inviting and accessible show, even for listeners with no interest in golf.

---

Summary

This episode is a heartfelt and information-packed journey through the world of miniature golf—full of nostalgia, oddball history, and reflections on what makes the game a beloved American institution. From Scottish putting greens invented to appease patriarchal norms to mechanized clowns’ mouths and death-themed courses in funeral home basements, Stuff You Should Know uncovers the weirdly fascinating, endearingly silly, and unexpectedly skillful sides of mini golf.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water. Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold butter. Yep, chocolate ice cream. Sure thing. Barbecue sauce. Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be tied.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Experience the beloved Harry Potter stories like you've never heard them before on Audible Harry Potter the full cast audio editions presents the iconic series as a truly spellbinding listening event for the whole family with a spectacular A list cast including Hugh Laurie as albus Dumbledore, Matthew McFaddyen as Voldemort, and many more. The first story in the series, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, is available now, with new audiobooks in the series releasing every month. The thereafter it's Harry Potter like you've never heard it before. Listen on audible. Go to audible.com HP1 and start listening today. Hey folks, it's that time of year to connect with the people you love, even if they live a few states away. And here's a fun stuff you should know. Style Fact Hearing someone's voice can trigger a similar emotional response as a hug. Brains are wild. But for the older folks who live far away, staying connected through tech isn't always easy. Someone you know may have that older relative like that the I still have a flip phone and it works fine type. It's all relatable. That's why what AT&T is doing is actually pretty great. They offer digital literacy workshops to help older adults learn tech skills many tend to take for granted. Video conferencing, sharing photos, all that good stuff, and it genuinely changes lives. Take Nancy Shawn, who joined one of these workshops and learned a video chat for the first time this year. Instead of hearing about family gatherings after the fact, she'll be there virtually. So this holiday season, call your people, reach out. Stay connected. No matter the distance. Connecting changes everything.

[Josh Clark]

AT&T hey everyone, I thought it would be nice to ring in the new year with an easy select filled with Chuck and me reminiscing about our childhood memories of Putt Putt and Slush puppies. So for this week's select, I give you our August 2020 episode of Miniature Golf and want to take a moment to wish my dear wife Yumi a happy birthday. So happy Birthday Yumi. Happy and to you dear listeners, Happy New Year.

[Podcast Announcer]

Welcome To Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartradio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there. And there's Jerry there figuring out all the new contrivances of modern life.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, we should tell people what's going on. I think it's interesting, right?

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I'm gonna tell them.

[Josh Clark]

Fine.

[Chuck Bryant]

So Jerry has figured out now how to operate the studio. Macintosh recording system.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

And not be in the office.

[Josh Clark]

It's pretty great. It's Covid rific, actually.

[Chuck Bryant]

And so she was just up on our Skype on video. And she's still there. But when she switched it to mute, it went to that distressing picture. Do you see that thing?

[Josh Clark]

No, I just see J.R. like the letter J and the letter R. Oh.

[Chuck Bryant]

See, there she is. She's back.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

When she turned it off, I get a photograph of Jerry that looks like she's, like, sick in bed or something. It's weird.

[Josh Clark]

This is. Well, that's just Jerry's look.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe so. I don't know.

[Josh Clark]

That's. A diet of nothing but miso for 15, 20 years will do for you.

[Chuck Bryant]

The weirdest thing is this is as close as we've come to know normal in four months.

[Josh Clark]

I know. Not only is it like normal, it's almost like a throwback. Remember when we had the studio where we would look out the window when she was there?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. That was great. This is kind of like this again.

[Chuck Bryant]

She was a window creeper.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. Professionally. And in her personal life, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

So this is stuff you should know, everybody. I don't know if I said it. There are probably a few people who are confused and aren't anymore, but we haven't gotten started yet. So prepare to be confused again when we explain something in particular. Chuck, Miniature golf.

[Chuck Bryant]

I gotta ask, are you a fan?

[Josh Clark]

This made me want to play again. Like, I grew up playing Putt Putt and have very fond memories of all the different colored golf balls. You know, like the water trap. That was really just a stagnant little puddle of concrete, you know? But Putt Putt was wonderful and great. And there were arcades and birthday parties there that featured heavily with GI Joe action figures and stuff like that. The good kind. The three and three quarter inch ones. And, yeah, I am a fan, if not just nostalgically in general. Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

And which style? And as you as a listener will see soon, there are a couple of different things. But did you grow up playing Just sort of the bare bones putt putt or the more miniature golf clown's mouth windmill volcano.

[Josh Clark]

Well, Chuck, if you ask me if I had a rich childhood, I will always tell you, yes sir, Yes I did. And the reason why is because I grew up having putt putt close by in Toledo and we played that a lot. And then when my family would vacation in the summers on Catawba island on Lake Erie and this was like pre cleaned up Lake Erie, there was a run down little like mini golf with clowns mouths and windmills and all that stuff right by the place where we used to stay, like walking distance. And so we'd play there a lot too. So I had the best of both worlds. A really great, just top notch childhood.

[Chuck Bryant]

So I grew up playing putt putt at Stone Mountain park, which we went to a lot of because it was near our church. And the youth group would go and do putt putt nights and stuff. So that was a lot of fun. And I was sort of partial to those that were like, you know, the real putt putt where it requires a little bit of skill. But I am also a sucker for the beach town, volcano, waterfall, Go kart, bumper boat, arcade scene.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. Don't forget laser tag.

[Chuck Bryant]

I never really did laser tag. I think that came around a little after I was, you know, in my prime years for this kind of thing.

[Josh Clark]

Gotcha. Yeah, it wasn't same here, but I was looking up. Now they have laser tag at putt putt places.

[Chuck Bryant]

But I still love those go karts, man. When we go to Isle of Palms. Last year I found a place nearby and I was like, we gotta go. And everyone was kinda like, oh, I don't know. And the kids are sort of like, yeah, I guess I'll do it. And I was like, guys, we gotta go, right?

[Josh Clark]

Like, what is wrong with all of you? Who are you vacationing with, Chuck?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh man, it was so much fun.

[Josh Clark]

Was there a carbon monoxide leak at the house you rent?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, those go karts. I could do that all day long.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

And of course I got the guy, you know, the teenager, squeaky voiced teenager. And I said, hey man, which one? Which is the fast one? And he was like, number eight.

[Josh Clark]

Really?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh yeah. And sure enough, it was really fast.

[Josh Clark]

You just ran circles around everybody.

[Chuck Bryant]

I did such that I even laid off on the gas a little bit just to catch up and let people, you know, act like they outrace me.

[Josh Clark]

What a sportsman. Oh my goodness. Well, we'll talk about Go Karts one day more in depth. But today we're just going to focus on the miniature golf. Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. This is a pretty interesting history, I think.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I had no idea how far back it went until we started researching this. And actually, it goes all the way back to the 19th century. And this is one of those rare things that's been around a while, but you can actually pinpoint, like, the first one. And the first miniature golf course in the world, as far as anybody knows, is at St. Andrews. It's the Ladies Putting Club of St. Andrews, and it was built in 1867 strictly for the women members of the Ladies Putting Club.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. There's a couple of things at play here, actually. Really just one thing, which is not letting women do things, because there was a decree basically, that women shall not take the club back past their shoulder.

[Josh Clark]

11Th Commandment.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Like a real golf swing, in other words, was, I guess, improper for a lady to do.

[Josh Clark]

The Victorian era was just so stupid when it came to social constraints.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm trying to figure out, why does that. I don't know.

[Josh Clark]

Patriarchy, I would guess.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I just wonder why a full golf swing. Would it make their dress rate rise a little above the ankle? Or, like. I just wonder why.

[Josh Clark]

I think also women were expected to not overexert themselves physically, especially in public, too. So you could kind of construe that as overexertion.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, and then there's this, which is from an 1890 book by Scottish baron Lord Wellwood, talking about women and when they should golf and when they shouldn't golf. I was gonna do a Scottish accent, but I'm just not feeling it. If they choose to play. At times when male golfers are feeding or resting, no one can object. But at other times, must we say it, they are in the way.

[Josh Clark]

It was kind of snarky to add even the. Must we say it? Like, do I even need to write this next sentence? It's so just drippingly obvious.

[Chuck Bryant]

But the upshot of this is that's why they created the Ladies Putting Club, is just to sort of get rid of them.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. To get them out of the way of the men. But the joke was on the men, because this putting green, this first miniature golf course in the world, is still around, and it's still considered one of the finest. It's actually nicknamed the Himalayas because it has all these kind of mountains and hills and hillocks all built into it. And they really kind of stand out, from what I understand, against, like, the Scottish seascape. And it's a really revered miniature golf course. But it is exactly what it sounds like. It is a golf course in miniature. Like, just like you take a classic golf course of the variety that was born in Scotland, and you just kind of hit it with a shrink ray, and then you have a genuine bonafide miniature golf course. And that's how the whole thing started out.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, it's what we would call, like, a par three today, Right?

[Josh Clark]

Kind of. It seems like par three courses are a little different. So this is like. Yes, I think it does require more than just a putter, and a par 3 would require more than a putter. But there seems to be a few different other kinds of golf courses aside from the miniature golf course. There's the par 3, the pitch and putt, and executive courses. All kind of qualify technically as miniature golf courses in different ways.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the executive course, they got the name because evidently an executive could go play a quick round during lunch. A lot of par threes. You might have a, like, 1 par 5 and a couple of par fours.

[Josh Clark]

Is that right? On a par 3?

[Chuck Bryant]

On an executive course.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, okay. Yeah. That's really the only thing, from what I can tell, that differentiates it from a par three course.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's a golf course that's just shorter and therefore doesn't take as long.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And it's not like the hole is smaller and the ball is smaller and the clubs are smaller. Like, just get out of your fantasy land there. Instead, it's just the distance from the tee to the hole is shorter.

[Chuck Bryant]

The.

[Josh Clark]

There's fewer bends and stuff like that. So the actual experience takes less time and less energy, and you can just kind of fit it in in a shorter amount of time. And I think that's the popularity of those things generally. Although pitch and putt courses, I also saw, they usually consist of a wedge, an iron, and a putter are what you need to play on those. And they're all about the focus on the short game. And as a result, men and women, just average men and women who play golf can kind of compete pretty evenly because it's all about the short game. It's all about finesse rather than, you know, just sheer power of driving as far as you can on, like, a traditional golf course.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, I love golf. I just don't play anymore. Like, I grew up playing golf and was not good, but I wasn't terrible for as much as I played, and I still like it. I just don't, you know, have the time or the inclination anymore. But I like the big boy course with the big par fives, but I also love a fun little par 3. Like Florida has a lot of these beautiful par threes, including some you can play at night that are all lit up. And that's always a lot of fun too.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I tried to get acquainted with golf as a youngster. My family had, weirdly enough, because this is not like my family at all, had a membership at Heather Downs Country Club in Toledo. Yeah. And I loved the pool because they had like, you know, tons of slush puppies and the best, like nasty hot dogs you can imagine. And there was a pool and all that. I think I told you the story about swim league. The swim team where I was the worst swimmer on it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

But I also tried to golf for a couple of summers and it just didn't. Didn't take it up. But I was back in Toledo like a couple of years ago, I think, right before our Cleveland show. And I visited the country club. Well, I just drove by and I looked at. And the pool is now just like a green field. It's been filled in. Like the little snack shop has been torn down. I'm like, something really bad must have happened there for them to do that to the pool, you know?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, there's the. And I didn't get to go here much cause it was private. But Hidden Hills was a big neighborhood near my house that had a country club.

[Josh Clark]

That's still around, isn't it?

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, the neighborhood's there, but you know, the neighborhood has seen its better days. And the country club and golf course is completely just shut down and grown over. It's really. It looks. Well, it is an abandoned place.

[Josh Clark]

That's so cool.

[Chuck Bryant]

It is kind of cool. And then I had the idea of a movie, like a old school type thing where a bunch of like middle aged men that grew up there go back and raise some money and try and like clean the place up and get it going again. Yeah, to hilarity.

[Josh Clark]

There has to be like a greedy developer that they're battling, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So is that the neighborhood that we got kicked out of when we tried to go shoot like without a license once around that area, Remember the security guard came up, was like, stop what you're doing.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't remember that.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it happened one day.

[Chuck Bryant]

Was it on the TV show or a short gorilla?

[Josh Clark]

No, it was like when we were shooting shorts, I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I don't remember that.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Should we take a break already?

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. All right, we'll get back and we'll talk about where mini golf went from here right after this.

[Advertiser Voice]

With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member, FDIC.

[Podcast Announcer]

You know, AT&T believes hearing a voice can change everything. It's why people love a good podcast or save voicemails from loved ones. Because everyone appreciates the sound of a familiar voice. And when you need a recharge or want some comfort, you call a family member or friend. AT&T wants everyone to share their voice over the holidays. So send a voice note, leave a voicemail, call someone. Because that convo is a chance to say something they'll hear forever. Happy holidays from AT&T. Connecting changes everything.

[Josh Clark]

Hey everybody. We want to talk to you about Squarespace. And in particular, if you have a great idea that you want to sell on the web. Well, Squarespace makes it easy to sell access to content on your websites.

[Advertiser Voice]

That's right. You can do online courses, you can do blogs, videos, memberships. You can even earn recurring revenue by gating your content behind a paywall. Simply set the price and choose whether to charge a one time fee or a subscription for access.

[Josh Clark]

That's right. And you can get your content discovered fast with integrated SEO tools. Every Squarespace website is optimized to be indexed with meta descriptions, an auto generated sitemap and more. So you show up more often to more people in global search engine results.

[Advertiser Voice]

Just go to squarespace.com stuff and you can get a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use our offer code stuff s t u f f to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain.

[Chuck Bryant]

S y l 1 y s k s k.

[Josh Clark]

Alright, so we're back. Nothing we've talked about right now constitutes miniature golf in the mind of anybody who hears the words miniature golf. Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

True.

[Josh Clark]

Like what? What comes to mind are things like putt putt or Goofy Golf or windmills or clowns or Happy Gilmore or something like that. Right?

[Advertiser Voice]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So that all started. Actually that didn't quite start yet. That was really leading up to that. And then I realized we had to keep going with regular miniature golf one more time because it has to spread to America. And it did. And we can actually trace that, too, to the house of a guy named James Barber, who is an immigrant from England who was familiar with the course, the Ladies Putting Club at St. Andrews. And he was rich enough that he said, you know, I want a miniature golf course built on my estate at Pinehurst, North Carolina. And he did. He had like an 18 hole miniature course built right there in his formal gardens. And it's just absolutely beautiful.

[Chuck Bryant]

It is nice. And this was the first one in the United States. And as it's called, Thistledew T H I S T L E D H U And supposedly, as legend goes, when he first saw it, he said, this'll do. I guess he was not blown away. Maybe. I don't know. Sounds a little underwhelming.

[Josh Clark]

I'm hoping he wasn't one of those spoiled brat robber barons and instead was like, this'll do. This'll do quite nicely. And they just left off the second part, you know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, but it's called Thistle Do. And they started hosting competitions a couple years later. And I think this is the first time miniature golf was ever used like those words were ever used to describe the Pinehurst outlook. Was that the newspaper?

[Josh Clark]

I guess, yeah. It's their one claim to fame, you know. It's true, though.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's probably true.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. But they were the one. In a account of the competition, they coined the term miniature golf. Up to that point, a lot of people had called it Lilliputian golf.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sure.

[Josh Clark]

After the. The little people in Gulliver. Gulliver's Travels. Yeah. And that actually. That name actually stuck for quite a while. So we've got James Barber, who hosted or built the first miniature golf course in America. But still, this thing is like directly connected to the Ladies Putting Club of St. Andrews. It's a golf course in miniature. We still haven't quite reached what we would consider miniature golf. That wouldn't happen until 1926, which turned out to be a really big year for miniature golf in America. It was like there was something in the air and a few different people kind of tapped into it around the same time, and it suddenly just took off like a rocket.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, Two of the guys were some entrepreneurs named Drake Delanois, I guess. Crazy name. John Ledbetter. Another good name.

[Josh Clark]

That's okay. He sounds like he'll shoot you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Ledbetter.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I could see that. They did a pretty cool Thing, which is they opened up a course on top of a rooftop in the financial district in New York. And that kicked off a trend. There were, I think, about 100 of those on top of roofs. I guess this is before the big rooftop bar hotel scene. They had golf courses up there.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, miniature golf courses. Again, though, those were like miniature golf courses. So, I mean, that was a big deal in New York. Just 100 rooftop golf, miniature golf courses alone in the 20s. That's a tremendous amount. And I don't think there's a single one left. Actually. There should be. So that kind of makes the whole. There's one on top of Ponce City Market where the house stuff works, office is. Is there golf up there? There's a miniature golf course up there, and it makes a lot more sense now. Yeah, it's kind of like a whole mini Coney island up there. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, I think I've only been up there when we had work events. And the only thing I did was the slide.

[Josh Clark]

I didn't know there was a slide.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, there's like a. You know, you sit in a potato sack and go down this big slide.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, I did that.

[Chuck Bryant]

That was fun.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, there's a. There's a miniature golf course up there. We'll have to play sometime when the whole pandemic passes. Totally.

[Chuck Bryant]

And then later that same year, you said it was kind of a boom year for mini golf. Look out Mountain, Tennessee, in Chattanooga, which is a place where I think everybody should go to see Ruby Falls and Rock City.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

It is a tourist trap, but it's actually kind of neat.

[Josh Clark]

I mean, the greatest of the great tourist traps. And it still holds up, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Get a pecan log. Oh, my God, those are so good.

[Josh Clark]

They are so good. That also supports my theory that candy was perfected in the 19th century.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'd never heard of that.

[Josh Clark]

Remember nougat honeycomb pecan logs?

[Chuck Bryant]

I didn't know pecan logs were from way back then, but I believe it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, for sure. They're definitely old timey.

[Chuck Bryant]

So these people, Garnett and Frieda Carter, they built a resort called Fairyland Club. And it was part of that whole sort of interconnected scene there with Rock City and Ruby Falls. And they built a miniature golf course. And they said, you know what, if you like golf, maybe you should try mini golf, because it doesn't take very long. It'll kind of scratch that itch if you're not able to play a real round. And that's sort of how they marketed it at first. And they were the first people, I think, to start adding the obstacles, right?

[Josh Clark]

They did, yeah. And they used, as they were building, like, the inn and the resort complex, they used some of the construction materials, like drain pipes and, you know, barrels and things like that, and used. Built them as hazards. And then because they had this whole, like, fairy tale theme going up there, they also built Rock City. They were the ones who built Rock City. And that has, like, a cool little weird. Weird, but also very neat fairy tale theme kind of hidden throughout. They added that to their miniature golf course. So they had these stationary obstacles and hazards that they added. And then they also added this statuary of cute little, you know, Mother Goose type stuff, and they actually called the whole thing Tom Thumb Golf. Tom Thumb, from what I understand is the earliest recorded English fairy tale character from back in 1621. And he was a little tiny guy the size of his father's thumb, which is where he got his name. So it was a pretty appropriate name. They must have really, like, been pretty pleased with themselves when they decided to call it Tom Thumb Golf because it really. It checked all the boxes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And we should mention, too, we keep saying Rock City. And if you're not from the Southeast, you might think it's just some, like, redneck area with a bunch of rocks. It's actually a very sweet natural wonder. It's. It's caves that you walk through.

[Josh Clark]

Caves. It's huge boulders being held up by much, much smaller boulders. Yeah, it's really neat that way for probably tens of thousands of years that you walk under. There's like. Yeah, there's little cave areas that you kind of duck into. And they have little fairy tale scenes with fluorescent day or. Fluorescent. Yeah, I guess, kind of dayglow.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's like glow in the dark, weird.

[Josh Clark]

Like gnomes in fairy tale scenes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like, that's the weird part. It's like if Carlsbad Caverns had, you know, some corny fairy theme.

[Josh Clark]

Mm. And then Ruby Falls is really neat, too. Yeah. It's a very cool, like, natural attraction that they've done a good job of, like, underground waterfall, making it easy to make your way to. But, yeah, the whole thing is definitely worth going to. And then, of course, they have this. The very famous, like, Sea Rock City Barnsides that everybody's heard of. That was Garnett Carter, who painted one man or paid one man to go around and offer to give a fresh coat of paint to barns all throughout the Southeast.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's great.

[Josh Clark]

In exchange for letting them paint Sea Rock City on the side.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. If you've ever driven around the North Carolina. South Carolina area and south of the Border, you know what I'm talking about?

[Josh Clark]

Mm. South of the Mason Dixon Line.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, south of the Border is the name of this sort of highway tourist trap that's.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, no, I haven't heard of that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's the same deal. I think it's. I want to say it's North Carolina, but it's basically like a glorified rest stop that has a Mexican theme where you can go, like, I don't know, see a mariachi band and eat good food and buy cheap jockies.

[Josh Clark]

The only mariachi band in all of North Carolina.

[Chuck Bryant]

But what made me think about it, it might be, was that they have the same thing for like hundreds of miles in any direction for south of the Border and Rock City, they're very famous for these billboards that tell you like, oh, it's coming. You're getting closer, you're getting closer.

[Josh Clark]

That's really strange that I've never heard of that then.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, south of the border.

[Josh Clark]

Check it out. I must not have been paying attention. So the Carters built, like, this Tom Thumb golf course. And again, originally they just did this as kind of an amenity at their Fairyland Inn and Fairyland Club. But it was such a smash hit and Garnett Carter was such a, like, born businessman that they. They were like, I think there might be something to this. And they saw. Either they saw it out or he sought them out. I'm not quite sure how it happened, but there was another guy who really factors Bigley into this whole story, but he's very frequently overlooked. And his name is Thomas McCulloch. Fairbairn. McCullough. Fairbairn, yeah. And he invented a really cheap and easy technique for creating artificial putting greens that could be used for miniature golf courses.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it was crushed cottonseed hulls, oil. You would dye it green and they would come in these big rolls and you just roll it over this foundation of sand and boom. You've got an easy way basically to sort of franchise these things with these prefab kits that they.

[Advertiser Voice]

They had.

[Chuck Bryant]

And people loved it because it was, you know, when it was. They called it midget golf for a little while. Not a term we would use today, but that's what they called it in the 1920s. And this factors in to a lot of stuff. We've been talking about the 1920s lately. Just these weird fads that would pop up. And Tom Thumb golf was one of them.

[Josh Clark]

It was. And part of the reason that it got out from Lookout Mountain is because the Carters and Fairbairn kind of joined forces and used his technique for making these greens very cheaply and used their kind of like, touch of whimsy, packaged it together and started selling it prepackaged sets or prefabricated sets that could be franchised out to anybody who wanted to start their own Tom Thumb golf course. And so they spread really, really quickly. And like you were saying, like the 20s, they were just looking for whatever craze could come along. Crossword puzzles, dance marathons, flagpole sitting. Well, apparently miniature golf was the king of them all as far as the 20s crazes went.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, this is a pretty startling statistic. In August of 1930, the Commerce Department said that there were, and apparently this could be low by even as much as half. 25,000. 25,000 mini golf courses in the US half of which were built in that previous six or eight months of the year.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's a boom right there.

[Chuck Bryant]

Can you imagine, like in eight months, like 12 to 15,000 mini golf courses being built in the U.S. it's crazy.

[Josh Clark]

I can just imagine Garnet and Freda Carter just rolling around on a bed of money in their suite at the Ferry Land in.

[Advertiser Voice]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And I mean, in a legit, like, job boosting market.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. No, well, that's a, that's another thing too, right? I mean, like, there was like flagpole sitting didn't make the transition to the Depression and dance marathons did, but they got kind of grim, apparently, miniature golf. And I've seen both. But, but miniature golf seems to have made the transition from 20s craze to, you know, kind of national pastime. That, that made sense in the Depression because you could take your whole family out to play miniature golf for pretty cheap nickel or something. That was a big attraction. And then also if you were like a golf junkie, but all of a sudden you didn't have the money to afford greens fees any longer, at the very least you could go play some miniature golf somewhere. So it kind of scratched that itch to a certain, a certain degree. So there was like a lot of popularity that even after the craze kind of crested and waned a little bit, it still carried on pretty, pretty thoroughly through the 1930s. And as a matter of fact, Chuck, some, for some people were like, Tom Thumbgolf. The official franchise. Tom Thumb golf. It's a little rich for my blood. What else you got for me?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, like, why can't we just do this.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, exactly. Local entrepreneurs are like, I got exactly the thing, buddy. You want to play half priced miniature golf? Come on.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like, I've got a bunch of PVC pipe laying around.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So just basically whatever found objects you could find, you could come across what were called rinky dink miniature golf courses that were basically knockoff tom thumb courses that used whatever found objects the person who built it had lying around.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. New York had about 150 of them. Washington D.C. had 30. One of those. Is still around the East Potomac park course.

[Josh Clark]

Yep.

[Chuck Bryant]

And yeah, the whole family could get involved. And I think one of the keys then and now to mini golf being popular. And then putt putt, which we'll see here in a minute, is that you don't even have to like golf at all. You can hate golf and still go do putt putt and probably have a good time.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. As long as you don't take it too seriously. Don't take it too serious.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, please don't.

[Josh Clark]

Just relax.

[Chuck Bryant]

Don't be that guy.

[Josh Clark]

That's what it's for. You want to take a break and then talk? Putt putt.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, let's do that, everybody.

[Chuck Bryant]

And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

[Josh Clark]

Fascinating.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.

[Josh Clark]

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera.

[Chuck Bryant]

They see us.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com.

[Chuck Bryant]

Savings Fairy Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates.

[Advertiser Voice]

Excludes Massachusetts with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet. Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member, FDIC.

[Podcast Announcer]

You know, AT&T believes hearing a voice can change everything. It's why people love a good podcast or save voicemails from loved ones. Because everyone appreciates the sound of a familiar voice. And when you need a recharge or want some comfort, you call a family member or friend. AT&T wants everyone to share their voice over the holidays. So send a voice note, leave a voicemail, call someone. Because that convo is a chance to say something they'll hear forever. Happy holidays from AT&T. Connecting changes everything.

[Chuck Bryant]

S Y S K S K.

[Advertiser Voice]

Are we there?

[Josh Clark]

Who, me?

[Chuck Bryant]

Are we there? Are we at Putt Putt?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I thought you said, are you there? I'm like, yeah, I'm here. We are there, Chuck, because let me set the. Set the table here. You ready?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

I'm hungry. America got a little burned out on miniature golf, especially the Tom Thumb and Rinky Dink varieties. And so a lot of it died out, but some remained, some hopped along. Some are still around today, actually. And by the 1950s, there was a guy who was playing at one of these courses in Fayetteville, North Carolina, which, remember, is the home of miniature golf in the United States. North Carolina is. And he happened to have just gotten a prescription from his doctor saying, you're about to have a nervous breakdown. I prescribe you a month's rest from work. And this guy Don Clayton, said, can do, and he started playing miniature golf, but he wasn't quite satisfied with it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I imagine if you were on the verge of a nervous breakdown, then Tom thumbgolf is a nice salve for that kind of experience.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. If you're charmed by all the whimsical.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff and you don't take it too seriously.

[Josh Clark]

Right. From what I understand, though, Don Clayton was like, this whimsy sucks. We need something better than this. And I think I'm just the person to build it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So he had the idea to basically make miniature golf, but without all the garbage. No clown's mouths, no windmills. And have a little, like, have a little skill involved. Like you can go out there and if you're like a good putter, you can actually compete and have a good time. And it's still for fun, but it's just not a silly kids game anymore.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Like, anybody who's been to an actual putt Putt course can tell you that it's. I mean, there's a lot of obstacles and it's interesting and fun and there's some neat stuff, but it just does not have all of, like, the moving bells and whistles that you're going to see on, like, other kinds of miniature golf. Like Goofy Golf.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, like, the obstacles are usually just like some blocks in the way and stuff like that.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Or bank it around elevated rhombuses or things like that. Or like a labyrinth, you know, built into it. It's not like a clown's mouth or anything like that, which is kind of like the go to description for Goofy Golf. Isn't it really?

[Advertiser Voice]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And I think like the craziest thing you'll see on a putt putt course is where you those that are like two levels and you can hit it into three different holes at the top and you're like, you kind of take a little bit of a gamble as to where it's gonna come out on the bottom. It'll either come out close to the hole so you can get that par two, and I think they're all par twos on a real putt putt course, or it'll spit you out way far away. But you still have a chance to hit that long putt for the two.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. There's always a chance for you. A second chance at putt putt.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think that was the motto.

[Josh Clark]

So. Yeah, but. So this was Don Clayton's vision. He was like, I wanna make this a little less goofy. I want to make it a little more interesting and skillful.

[Chuck Bryant]

Less goofy, more golfy.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, yeah. Chuck, man, he just sat up from his grave going, I wish I'd thought of that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Is he dead?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, he died in 1996. Okay. But he had a good run. I mean, this is 1954, when he was a 28 year old man that he decided to try this. So he went to his dad and said, hey, I've got this, I've got this idea. Rather than basically, as a New York Times obituary put it, rather than basically making a human sized pinball machine for golf, we're going to make this a little more interesting. How about we cobble together 5200 bucks and we're going to build our own little miniature golf course. And he did, in like a shaded little lot. And with that $5,200, they opened for business. And within 29 days, he and his father had made 100% of their investment back. And Don Clayton said, I think there might be something to this whole thing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So he was initially going to call it. He went to the bank to open a business account and he had to fill out the paperwork and he was going to call it the Shady Vale Golf Course.

[Josh Clark]

But yeah, this is hilarious.

[Chuck Bryant]

As the story goes, he didn't know how to spell Vale, I guess if it was V A I L or V A L E. So he just said putt, putt and wrote down putt putt. It wasn't something he brainstormed. Apparently it was just sort of on a whim. And it's a name that really, really stuck. It's kind of brilliant in its simplicity.

[Josh Clark]

I think divine inspiration. It almost feels like that it just kind of happened on a whim. That's just absolutely great. But he started to kind of build the whole thing into like this enormous industry pretty quickly because he was right. You know, there's. I did the math. If they made their $5200 back in 29 days, that means that over that month they had 20,800 paying customers. A quarter a game, 25 cents a game. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's a lot of people.

[Josh Clark]

So when they really got together and started putt putt, he was right. He was onto something. And it started to take off pretty quickly. Apparently at its peak, when you and I were going to putt putt, they had something like 256 courses throughout the world, mostly in the US and Canada, but also in Australia and South Africa and New Zealand. And it was definitely a thing. Like you said, all of the holes were par twos, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And this was just to be clear, 256 doesn't sound like a lot compared to the 50,000 that they had in the 1930s. But this was his own putt putt golf and games franchise. There was plenty of more putt putt going on in the United States than that, right?

[Josh Clark]

Right. Yeah. Like knockoff putt putt. Right?

[Advertiser Voice]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like the one in Stone Mountain park wasn't a putt putt golfing games. It was just putt putt. But it was great.

[Josh Clark]

It's called tap tap.

[Chuck Bryant]

They also had trail skateboard across from the putt putt, which was a roller skating trail through the woods.

[Josh Clark]

What?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it was like this two mile paved, you know, just basically like a big paved sidewalk through the woods and they rented roller skates and you would just skate through the woods. It was really cool, man.

[Josh Clark]

That's awesome. Country folk just have some of the best ideas for businesses, you know what I mean?

[Chuck Bryant]

I didn't think of us as country folk, but I guess it kind of was.

[Josh Clark]

Roller skating through the woods is country.

[Chuck Bryant]

I guess it is.

[Josh Clark]

That's like Dolly Parton level country.

[Chuck Bryant]

So, yeah, they're all par twos. And it is tough. It's challenging. Apparently in the 65 year history of putt putt, there have only been three perfect games where you walk away with a score of 18, which is. That's really tough to do.

[Josh Clark]

I mean, like, of the millions and millions of games of putt putt that people have played, only three people people have ever, ever gotten a perfect game. Which kind of shows you how like deceptively hard A putt putt course is, you know, like each one of those. Each one of those courses is made of, I think they have something like 108 trademarked holes.

[Advertiser Voice]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Or like lanes, I think is what they're called in miniature golf. So where you can just kind of take them and reconfigure them into different. Different configurations. But they have 108 total. And I guess each one of them is very, very difficult. I don't ever remember getting a perfect game or even imagining that I was going to get a perfect game.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I mean, you get two or three holes in one, and that's a good day for sure.

[Josh Clark]

So 18. There's actually a short, I think, seven and a half minute Grantland documentary on the most recent perfect putt putt game by a guy named Rick Baird, who had his perfect game in 2011.

[Chuck Bryant]

Can you imagine the tension on hole 18?

[Josh Clark]

They capture it really well in this documentary. It's really well done. They've got a cartoon version of him putting and he's got cartoon sweat just running down his face.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man.

[Josh Clark]

Really great.

[Chuck Bryant]

He's so nervous.

[Josh Clark]

It was very nervous and he did it. And he's actually a miniature golf pro in his spare time, which we'll talk about later. But there's. So he's from Charlotte. Don Clayton was from Fayetteville, and then Joseph Barber was from Pinehurst. So it seems pretty clear that North Carolina is the ancestral home of miniature golf, or at least the spiritual home of miniature golf in the world, frankly. I'm just going to say it. In the world. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And if you're looking for the creators of the kind of mechanized courses, you can go to 1955 and Scranton Penns with Ralph and Al Loma. Previous to this, you know, you had the putt putt, which just had the sort of regular obstacles. You had the Tom Thumb, which had kind of more outrageous whimsy, but still things weren't moving. And these are the guys that brought in these rotating windmill blades or ramps that move back and forth, and they really kind of kicked that to the next level. And they, you know, they went into business big time. They started mass producing these things, like the actual components, and sold a ton of them all over the world.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I think like 5,000 courses.

[Advertiser Voice]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Which is pretty impressive. They're the ones who came up with what we think of now as like miniature golf and Goofy Golf with the moving stuff.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not a fan.

[Josh Clark]

The clown mouth. Don't forget the clown mouth that opens and closes or. Yeah, like you say A windmill. So it's kind of interesting that Don Clayton brought miniature golf back to its roots of being a lot more like regular golf. And then very shortly after that, branched off the Lomas, who brought it back to their. That Tom Thumb roots. So that whole thing, the evolution of miniature golf happened twice in just the same way. Isn't that interesting?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And it also came back full circle in the 90s with a return to sort of that original miniature golf, because real golfers, people like Jack Nicklaus, started to get involved. I'm sure there were dollar signs in his eyes.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

But he also probably loved it. I don't want to be cynical, but I'm sure he made some money. But they have competitions. There are actual prize purses. There's a US Pro Mini Golf Association. They have their own little US Open. I don't think they call it the little US Open.

[Josh Clark]

They should, though.

[Chuck Bryant]

They totally should. There's the World Mini Golf Sports Federation in Germany, and they sort of are the body that standardizes the obstacles and stuff like that on, I guess what you can have and what you can't have, which is kind of funny when you think about is.

[Josh Clark]

But it's a pretty interesting list. You're like, oh, that'd be tough. Oh, that's hard. The sloped circle with a V obstacle. Yeah, that's just plain difficult. And I think they should call it the teeny weeny U.S. open.

[Chuck Bryant]

Welcome back to the teeny weeny U.S. s. Open.

[Josh Clark]

I was looking at the U.S. pro mini golf Association's website, and there was a Tennessee State Open. And, man, the picture that they have of that course. It looks serious, dude. Yeah. So, like, if you go to putt putt, and you always were like, I love this. This is so challenging. I can score like a some or I guess not a 16. I just don't play the last two holes when I'm on a streak, you know, like a 20 or a 22 or something like that. You might actually have fun being a miniature golf pro. And there are some serious courses out there for you to play that are a couple of notches above your average putt putt course.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'd like to play one of those.

[Josh Clark]

Would you? I don't know if I would have fun.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'd make a run club. Should we talk about some of these famous courses?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So from what I can tell, the United States is the home of miniature golf. It's the capital of miniature golf. I don't believe there's any country, like, I was looking. I was like, Maybe Thailand is like even more into it than the United States. I don't think so. I think the United States is the place that has the most miniature golf courses and has probably the most paying customers for miniature golf courses.

[Chuck Bryant]

I could see Japan.

[Josh Clark]

I could too. Didn't see anything like that. Yeah, I didn't see anything like it. So the United States is the home of miniature golf. And the world capital of miniature golf then is Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Which is ironic that it's not North Carolina, but it's not everybody. I'm sorry. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, Myrtle beach is sort of one of those classic old school beach towns that has all of the go karts and the bumper boats and the mini golf. And they have one called Molten Mountain that's pretty cool. Like, you should go check out pictures of some of these places. They're a lot of fun. That has a volcano, a working volcano that erupts every half hour. And it's sort of an inside and an out thing. Like, I think it's both indoors and outdoors, right?

[Josh Clark]

It is, yeah. It's a pretty. It's a pretty great one. And the whole volcano thing, they're not the only one. That's how nutso Myrtle beach is. There's another one called Hawaiian Rumble that also has a functioning volcano too. And in fact, on Highway 17, there's a 30 mile stretch of it that goes through Myrtle beach where there's 50 more than 50 miniature golf courses in a 30 mile stretch through Myrtle Beach.

[Chuck Bryant]

And I'm sure a lot of opinions on which ones are good and which ones stink.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. There's one I want to go to in Palatine, Illinois. I think I saw a couple of these from Travel and Leisure. Maybe this one's called Algrim Acres. A L G H R I M Acres. It's in Palatine, Illinois. And it's a funeral home. Like for real in real life?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, like, you know, they take care of dead bodies and you can also play nine holes on their death themed course in the basement.

[Josh Clark]

In the basement. First of all, the basement of a funeral home is just creepy on its own. But a death theme themed miniature golf course in a funeral home that actually functions, that's just downright interesting.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, there's this one in Las Vegas too, the Kiss themed one, which I checked out on YouTube. I would play this even though it goes against two things for me, which is not into indoor miniature golf. I really would like to be outside. And I think KISS sucks.

[Josh Clark]

What? I thought you were a Kiss fan. No. Oh, man. I thought you were a Kiss fan?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, not a Kiss fan. Never. I mean, you know, I get it, and I think it's kind of fun and funny.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

But I never thought Kiss was, like, played good rock and roll songs.

[Advertiser Voice]

Really?

[Josh Clark]

That's very surprising.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know. Kiss fans are gonna be so mad at me for saying their music is not good. But, I mean, there's a reason they dressed up and spit blood and stuff.

[Josh Clark]

So there's a. But it still. It'd be worth playing. I agree.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, it looked fun.

[Josh Clark]

The one that I would actually travel to go play is called Par King. It's in Lincolnshire, Illinois. So I probably go there and then I dip down or dip up, I'm not sure. To Palatine to play at Algora Makers. Okay, but parking is, like, exactly what it is. It's the pinnacle of a miniature golf course, if you ask me. It's got it all. It's difficult, and it has all of the amazing obstacles and weird traps and functioning problems to figure out that a miniature golf course should have.

[Chuck Bryant]

It looked pretty cool. I mean, I'm a putt putt guy, but I was checking out pictures and stuff. I would go to parking with you, for sure.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, we'll go. It's gonna be a summer trip in 20, 22 or 3.

[Chuck Bryant]

Fantastic.

[Josh Clark]

And then if you wanna play. So I think, Chuck, this one would be up your alley. It's called Golf Gardens on Catalina island in SoCal.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, right up my alley.

[Josh Clark]

This one is, like, considered the hardest miniature golf course in the United States. Not just because it's difficultly laid out, but also because it's been played so much that it's got all sorts of weird notches and stuff that's not supposed to be there in the playing surface. So that makes it all the more difficult, which is kind of neat.

[Chuck Bryant]

I love that.

[Josh Clark]

And then if you want to go retro, I think that one's been around a while. You can go down to Florida, and they have a historic mini golf trail that takes you from miniature golf course, miniature golf course, all of which have been around for at least 50 years.

[Chuck Bryant]

Amazing.

[Josh Clark]

And if you like weird old stuff that's not in use anymore, look up abandoned miniature golf courses. That's a fun thing to do. And since I said it's a fun thing to do, everybody, that means it's time for listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, I'm going to call this dad mail. Got this very sweet email. I love it when the families listen, you know?

[Josh Clark]

Mm, sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Especially when they're not. I mean, I like families with young kids that listen. But I also like it when it's adults and then older parents that are listening.

[Josh Clark]

Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey guys, hope you're hanging in there. These are such tricky times. I know you're I'm not the only listener that turns to your show for a distraction or a soundtrack to washing dishes or background noise while trying to run, or just something that feels normal during these abnormal times. A couple years ago, my now husband and I took a road trip with my parents to stay with my now in laws. As we pulled out of the driveway, we put on Stuff youf Should Know and spent the entire journey sharing your catalog with them and they were immediately hooked. My parents continue to love your podcast, but every time my dad refers to it, he mixes up the name. I love this stuff. So far he's called you guys. You should know.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff you ought to know. Yeah, Things you need to know and Stuff Guys.

[Josh Clark]

Stuff Guys is. That's a good nickname.

[Chuck Bryant]

Lately he's just been referring to you as the guys podcast, which is close enough for me.

[Josh Clark]

Eventually we're just gonna get to the yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Thanks for all the amazing work and the thoughtful approach you have to podcasting. So grateful to have multiple episodes to listen to every week. That is from Maribeth and she says P.S. i should add that the episode on fractals is now infamously nap inducing in my family, but I blame the long stretch of highway on that.

[Josh Clark]

Thank you, that was very kind of you. Really pulled it out at the end there. Who is that? Maribeth?

[Advertiser Voice]

Yep.

[Josh Clark]

Well, if you want to be like Marabeth and get in touch with us, we would appreciate that. Right now you can send it to us via email. That's the best way to reach us at Stuff Podcast at I Heart Rate.

[Podcast Announcer]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Advertiser Voice]

With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One, if he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC Living with an autoimmune condition isn't easy and Every journey is different. That's why Season five of Untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition from Ruby Studio and Argenics shares powerful firsthand stories from people with conditions like MG and cidp. Hosted by Martine Hackett, these conversations dive into what resilience really looks like through setbacks, breakthroughs and finding strength in community. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts here.

[Josh Clark]

With one last reminder to keep you off the naughty list this holiday season. Stuff your stockings, your pantry, your gift closet, anywhere you can with Duracell batteries because there's nothing worse than opening a gift on Christmas morning and realizing you don't have batteries for it. Duracell batteries are the only battery brand with Power Boost ingredients, which are a unique blend of nickel and lithium designed for long lasting power. So stock up on your AAs and your AAAs so you'll be a okay for the holidays. Choose the only battery brand with Power Boost ingredients. Choose Duracell.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.