Podcast Summary: Stuff You Should Know

Episode: Selects: How Schoolhouse Rock Rocked – Featuring Bob Nastanovich of Pavement

Date: October 11, 2025
Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant
Guest: Bob Nastanovich (of Pavement)

Episode Overview

In this nostalgic episode, Josh and Chuck revisit the origins, cultural impact, and lasting legacy of Schoolhouse Rock—a beloved series of educational songs and animations that shaped the childhoods of millions from the 1970s onward. They explore the show's unique conception by ad executives and jazz musicians, break down its memorable songs and seasons, discuss its revival in the ‘90s (including a beloved tribute album), and examine some criticisms leveled at its historical content. The episode also features a delightful interview with Pavement’s Bob Nastanovich about the band’s cover of “No More Kings” for the 1996 album, Schoolhouse Rock! Rocks.

Main Topics & Key Insights

1. The Genesis of Schoolhouse Rock (06:16 – 11:21)

• Origin Story:

  • David McCall, co-owner of the McCaffrey and McCall ad agency, was inspired to combine catchy music and education after noticing his son could remember Rolling Stones’ lyrics but struggled with multiplication tables.
  • He leveraged advertising techniques—specifically jingles—to “sell” educational concepts to kids.

• Notable Quote:

  • “Maybe we could do the same thing that we do to sell people stuff, but to basically sell education to kids.” – Chuck Bryant (07:42)

• Musical Direction:

  • Ad exec George Newell was tasked with making the prototype work and turned to jazz musician Bob Dorough, noted for his respect for kids’ intelligence and creativity.
  • Dorough’s Perspective:
    • “When [McCall] said that, I got a chill. I have a high opinion of children. And that was sort of the key right there. They weren’t songs written in a remedial way because it was children.” – Bob Dorough (09:39)

2. Building the Formula: Music + Animation (11:22 – 15:16)

• First song, “Three is a Magic Number,” set the template—addressing multiplication while being musically sophisticated and even philosophical.

• Art director Tom Yohe was brought on to add storyboards and animation, making the songs visually engaging.

• Notable Moments:

  • Hosts share deep nostalgia for Schoolhouse Rock’s seamless fusion of visuals and music, noting its unique “perfect storm of awesomeness.” (14:19)

3. The Heyday: Seasons and Song Highlights (19:44 – 34:41)

Math Season (Multiplication Rock)

• Debuted January 1973 as ABC “interstitials”—non-commercial programming between cartoons.
• Standout songs: “Three is a Magic Number,” “My Hero Zero,” “Four-Legged Zoo.”
• Dorough wrote nearly all the music, with singing help from jazz singers Grady Tate (“Naughty Number Nine”) and Blossom Dearie (“Figure Eight”).
  • Fun Fact: Schoolhouse Rock lost the Grammy for children’s album to Sesame Street in 1974.

Grammar Rock (73:54 – 26:43)

• Home to the biggest hit: “Conjunction Junction,” sung by jazzman Jack Sheldon.
• “Verb: That’s What’s Happening” noted for its funky sound and importance to Black children seeing themselves represented onscreen.
• Introduction of Lynn Ahrens, secretary-turned-songwriter, who created classics like “A Noun is a Person Place or Thing” and “Interplanet Janet.”

America Rock / History Rock (28:31 – 34:41)

• Timed to US Bicentennial (1976). Songs: “Mother Necessity,” “Shot Heard Round the World,” “No More Kings.”
• “I’m Just a Bill” (by Dave Frishberg, sung by Jack Sheldon) became a pop culture touchstone.
  • Quote: “That’s the cultural icon that signifies the whole thing. …I just feel like ‘I’m Just a Bill’ is the most readily recognizable one.” – Chuck Bryant (33:11)
• Songs proved educational for both kids and adults—legislators requested tapes to train their own staff.

Science Rock (34:41 – 35:16)

• Topics ranged from astronomy (“Interplanet Janet”) to the nervous system (“Telegraph Line”).
• The content was advanced enough to be used by med students.

4. Behind the Scenes and End of an Era (39:44 – 43:32)

• Early seasons: creative team-driven, collaboratively vetted by educators.
• Downturn:
  • Fifth and final original season (“Scooter Computer and Mr. Chips,” 1985) was dictated by ABC execs, focusing on computers—resulting in content quickly rendered obsolete and seen as lacking heart.
• The switch from creative-first to exec-assigned killed the project's spark.

5. Revival & Legacy (43:33 – 48:35)

• Schoolhouse Rock’s reruns and ‘90s revival:
  • Student-led petition at UConn prompted ABC to bring it back in 1993 with new episodes (Money Rock).
  • Schoolhouse Rock Live debuted as a stage show, running Off-Broadway.
  • Tribute album “Schoolhouse Rock! Rocks” (1996) featured 90s bands: Pavement, Lemonheads, Ween, Moby, and more.
• Schoolhouse Rock’s nostalgia is a defining point for Generation X and has sparked celebrations for decades after its original run.

6. Criticism and Historical Context (50:51 – 53:59)

• The series faced retrospective criticism over whitewashed historical narratives (e.g., glamorizing westward expansion, omitting Native American perspectives in “Elbow Room”).
• Hosts reflect on how history education (including Schoolhouse Rock) often glossed over uncomfortable truths but note that critical awareness has improved over time.

7. Bob Nastanovich Interview: “No More Kings” (56:11 – 69:39)

• Bob Nastanovich (Pavement) shares:
  • How Pavement recorded “No More Kings” for the tribute album:
    • Recorded during a studio session originally booked for the Silver Jews.
    • Connection via friend Jackie Farry (album supervisor), who gave them their pick—“No More Kings” was a favorite growing up.
    • Recording was quick (“one take on the instrumental…probably took eight minutes” – 59:23), and drummer Steve West did all the distinctive deep-voiced background ranting.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “It was one of those things in Pavement’s time that I feel like we actually did a good job on.” – Bob Nastanovich (58:32)
  • “We had to pavementize it…That’s the only way that we can really do it.” (68:38)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you just heard that theme song and something inside your body happened emotionally…you grew up in the 70s and 80s.” – Josh Clark (03:20)
• “The people involved stayed on for basically the whole run…the initial run from ‘73 to ‘85.” – Chuck Bryant (23:17)
• “It wasn’t just the song…the combination of the visuals with the song…and you were learning something in such a unique way.” – Josh Clark (14:19)
• “Supposedly…lobbyists and legislators would get in touch with ABC and be like, you gotta get me a copy of that ‘I’m Just A Bill’ thing. …to show it to my staff to train them.” – Chuck Bryant (34:07)
• “As far as Gen X nostalgia goes…I would propose that Schoolhouse Rock was the thing that kicked it off.” – Chuck Bryant (48:17)
• “That’s the cultural icon that signifies the whole thing…‘I’m Just a Bill’ is the most readily recognizable one.” – Chuck Bryant (33:11)

Timestamps: Important Segments

• 06:16 – The ad agency roots & inspiration for Schoolhouse Rock
• 09:39 – Bob Dorough’s unique approach: not talking down to children
• 11:22 – Creation of “Three is a Magic Number”
• 15:38 – Pitching to ABC, Chuck Jones, and Michael Eisner
• 19:59 – Debut on ABC; format and initial song lineup
• 23:17 – Continuity of the creative team across seasons
• 24:29 – “Conjunction Junction” and Jack Sheldon's vocal magic
• 28:40 – America Rock/History Rock and “No More Kings”
• 33:11 – “I’m Just a Bill” becomes the most iconic song
• 34:41 – Science Rock and extending educational reach
• 39:44 – Season 5 (“Scooter Computer”) and the decline in quality
• 43:33 – The '90s revival and Money Rock
• 46:39 – Schoolhouse Rock Live & Off-Broadway
• 48:17 – The show’s importance in Gen X nostalgia
• 50:51 – Criticism of whitewashing history, esp. in “Elbow Room”
• 56:11 – Bob Nastanovich interview segment begins
• 58:32 – “No More Kings” recording process & context

Additional Highlights

• Cultural Legacy: Referenced by media like The Simpsons and SNL (notably Robert Smigel’s “Conspiracy Rock”).
• Generational Impact: Schoolhouse Rock influenced not only how children learned, but also shaped their sense of nostalgia and pop culture identity.
• Educational Philosophy: The refusal to “write down to kids” is credited for Schoolhouse Rock’s enduring appeal and effectiveness.

Conclusion

This rich, nostalgic episode reveals not only the backstory and making of Schoolhouse Rock, but also its vast cultural footprint. The hosts’ affection and critical insight, the stories behind the tribute album, and a rare interview with Pavement's Bob Nastanovich make this a must-listen for those seeking to rediscover this “perfect storm of awesomeness”—as well as those curious about the subtler effects of children’s media on generations of learners.