Transcript

Narrator/Announcer (0:00)

This is an iHeart podcast.

Josh Clark (0:02)

Guaranteed human.

Chuck Bryant (0:04)

If you were to try two zero sugar colas with their labels removed and make the decision based on taste alone, do you know which one you'd choose?

Josh Clark (0:11)

Well, last year, Pepsi put that to the test for tens of thousands of people across the country in a revival of the iconic Pepsi Challenge. And the results were clear. 66% of people preferred the taste of Pepsi Zero Sugar over Coke Zero Sugar. That's the idea behind the Pepsi paradox, that when labels and bias disappear, people prefer the taste of Pepsi Zero sugar.

Chuck Bryant (0:32)

It really makes you wonder, are you choosing the zero sugar cola that you actually prefer or are you settling for the label that you think you prefer?

Josh Clark (0:39)

Go out and try Pepsi Zero sugar today. You deserve taste. You deserve Pepsi. Hey, everybody, there's a new film called Project Hail Mary that you're going to want to see. It follows a science teacher, Rylan Grace, played by Ryan Gosling, who wakes up alone on a spaceship light years from Earth with no no memory of who he is or how he got there. As his memory slowly returns, he realizes he's actually on a last ditch mission to solve the mystery of a substance that's causing the sun to die. So, no pressure. Calling on his scientific knowledge and unorthodox ideas, Rylan has to figure out how to save Earth. It's a smart, high stakes story about science, survival, and most importantly, hope and connection in the face of impossible odds. So don't miss it on the big screen. See Project Hail Mary only in theaters and IMAX March 20th. Get your tickets now.

Chuck Bryant (1:25)

When you think about protecting what matters, it's usually your family, your future, or the stability you've worked a lifetime to build. Right? That's why Protective is here. They're on a mission to help more people achieve the sense of protection and financial security they deserve. Trusted by 32 million people, protective is by your side with life insurance, retirement, employee benefit and asset protection solutions. If you're wondering what protecting your future could look like, check out protective.com to learn more. For more information and important disclosures, please visit protective.com hey, guys, it's me, your old pal, Josh.

Josh Clark (1:58)

And for this week's Select, I've chosen our 2020 episode on spiritualism, which, as you might be able to tell from the first couple minutes, was recorded during the height of the COVID pandemic. That's not why I chose this one. I chose it because it's been coming up a lot lately for some reason in episode after episode, which I've taken as a sign to choose this as a select, but it's also kind of made me think about all of the back and forth I've gone through in my life. Is there an afterlife? Is there not an afterlife? Who knows? That's where I'm at right now. Who knows? So maybe listen to this episode about the spiritualism movement and see what you think about the whole thing. Enjoy.

Summary

Stuff You Should Know – Selects: How Spiritualism Works

Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Date: March 7, 2026 (original recording 2020)
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

Episode Overview

In this “Selects” episode, Josh and Chuck revisit their deep dive into the history, mechanics, and social currents surrounding the rise of Spiritualism—the belief that the spirits of the dead can and do communicate with the living, most often through mediums. The show traces the origins of the movement in 19th-century America, the major players (from the Fox Sisters to Harry Houdini), the pseudoscientific methods employed, and the movement’s impact—both good and bad—on society. The conversation is rich with humorous asides and cultural context, keeping a playful and skeptical tone throughout.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: What is Spiritualism?

[07:02] Josh contextualizes spiritualism as something taken for granted today, permeating pop culture (crystal balls, Ouija boards, tarot cards), but points out that there was a very specific moment in history when it became a movement—a major social and religious force.
[08:36] Chuck distinguishes between ancient ghost stories and Spiritualism the movement—a phenomenon that turned into both a belief system and (for many) a money-making “scam” that preyed on the grief-stricken.

2. Key Conditions for Spiritualism’s Rise

Frontier Mentality ([11:23])
- Josh: “The people who are living out there on the frontier, they're living on the edge of civilization... forced, just by virtue of having to survive under these weird conditions outside of culture and civilization in the European sense, to abandon that culture and basically make it up as they went along and recreate a new culture from the frontier.”
Religious Fervor & Experimentation ([12:47])
- Chuck: “No big religious authorities in the area. They had no structured hierarchy of religion... again, they could just make up stuff. And... a lot of religions sprang out from this region during that time."
Science, Technology, and the Unseen ([15:18])
- The era’s discovery of invisible phenomena (electromagnetism, etc.) made people more open to unseen worlds. Josh notes: “There was a lot more willingness among people who were scientifically minded to say, well, maybe this is a good explanation of that.”

3. The Birth of Modern Spiritualism: The Fox Sisters

[20:14] The movement’s “zero day” is traced to March 31, 1848, with the Fox family in Hydesville, NY.
Josh discusses how the sisters (especially under older sister Leah’s management) held seances and developed “spirit rapping” (really toe-knuckle thumping on hidden wooden stools). The act went global and lasted decades.
[26:10] Maggie Fox later confessed to the ruse—but by then, the spiritualist movement was unstoppable.

Notable quote:

“It was basically a prank by a couple of teenage girls that got way out of hand really fast.” – Josh (24:14)

4. How Spiritualists Worked Their Craft

Channeling / Trance Mediums ([29:58])
- Mediums would dramatically “become” the spirit through voice and mannerisms (like famed Cora Scott).
Automatic Writing ([32:32])
- Spirits supposedly took over the medium’s hand.
- Pearl Curran is cited for thousands of works channeled from "Patience Worth."
Direct Voice ([33:49])
- The spirit "speaks directly," often thanks to a hidden assistant or ventriloquism (Leslie Flint).
Table Turning ([36:03])
- Seance members place hands on a table that “moves”—often via hidden devices, trickery, or the ideomotor effect.
Ectoplasmic Manifestations ([37:31])
- “Ectoplasm” was faked using hidden props, sometimes bizarrely stored in body cavities.
- Remark: “Some of the pictures that you see online… are hysterical and frightening all at the same time.” – Chuck
Levitation & Spirit Photography ([39:12], [41:15])
- Simple illusions, double exposures, and party tricks explained in rich detail.

5. The Civil War, World War I, and the Grief Market

[47:25] The Civil War created a vast new audience of bereaved seeking solace—turning an entertainment into a personal business.
[48:43] The pattern repeated after WWI.
The hosts stress the ethical gray zone of profiting from grief, with Chuck lamenting: “When you are taking people's money who have lost loved ones in battle, then that's when it gets kind of really ugly, if you ask me.” ([48:43])

6. Decline and Endurance of Spiritualism

As mediums became greedier and more outrageous, public belief sputtered; scientific debunkings took a heavy toll ([50:47]).
However, select communities and individuals (e.g., Dan Aykroyd) still practice spiritualism as a religion.

7. The Skeptics vs. True Believers

The episode highlights “appeal to (false) authority” ([52:44]) with scientists and celebrities lending undue credence to mediums.
Legendary top-heavy believer: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (of Sherlock Holmes)—staunch defender of spiritualism.
Legendary skeptic: Harry Houdini—magician who made it his mission to expose spiritualist frauds, incorporating debunking into his act ([57:09]).

Notable exchange:

“They [mediums] were stealing our tricks!” – Josh, on why magicians fought back ([59:14])

8. Women and Spiritualism: A Path to Agency

Most 19th-century mediums were women, aided logistically by their long dresses (hiding devices) and by social reluctance to search them closely ([60:40]).
Chuck: “It was no coincidence that sometimes the voice from the other side would champion... progressive views... If you were a woman and you were a spiritualist, it would be very easy to say, you know, they're saying that women should have more rights... and that kind of ended up happening in some ways.”
The movement often intersected with abolitionism, women’s rights, and other social causes ([62:07]).

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

On the Fox Sisters’ Confession:
“They did this for 40 years. They made a living around the world doing that and created a new religion from it.” – Josh ([26:10])
Fraud/Skepticism:
“If you could get a top heavy to basically say like, I can't explain it, science can't explain it, that would go a very long way to bolstering your career, you know?” – Josh ([54:17])
On Women Mediums Influencing Social Change:
"Not only that... I imagine in a lot of cases people made real life decisions based on things that would happen in these seances." – Chuck ([49:53])
Pop culture asides:
The hosts riff on ghost rapping, ‘The Others’ (Nicole Kidman), and Joyce Carol Oates’s seance story "Nightside" ([64:01]).

Timestamps of Key Segments

Intro and context – [02:56]
Defining Spiritualism & rise conditions – [07:02] to [18:00]
The Fox Sisters’ story – [20:14] to [28:12]
Medium techniques and spectacle – [29:58] to [44:00]
Civil War & social context – [45:43] to [50:47]
Skeptics, Science, and Showmanship – [52:07] to [59:28]
Women, agency, and progressive reforms – [60:40] to [64:46]
Closing recs & final thoughts – [64:46] to end

Final Thoughts

This episode provides an accessible, wry, and culturally insightful look at how Spiritualism exploded from a fringe curiosity to a massive social movement, delivered in Josh and Chuck’s trademark blend of humor and skepticism. Listeners gain historical context, understand the millieu that enabled spiritualism, and see how its echoes persist in modern skepticism and paranormal culture.

Recommended for:

Anyone curious about the roots of séances, mediums, and the American religious landscape
Listeners interested in the social history of skepticism
Fans of cultural and historical podcast storytelling

Notable References

[14:42] – John Harvey Kellogg and the breakfast/health reform connection
[32:32] – Pearl Curran and Patience Worth
[54:17] – “Top heavy” scientists (from "Revelations of a Spirit Medium")
[57:09] – Harry Houdini’s crusade against spiritualist frauds
[64:01] – Joyce Carol Oates's "Nightside" (recommended as a chilling short story on spiritualism)

For further exploration:

"The Others" (film, Nicole Kidman)
Joyce Carol Oates, “Nightside” (short story)
Lily Dale, NY—a modern spiritualist community ([65:04])

If you’re fascinated by how a bizarre Victorian fad still lingers in pop culture—and how a blend of science, grief, and show business collided—this is an essential listen.