Selects: Iran-Contra Affair: Shady in the 80s, Part 2

Summary

Stuff You Should Know: "Iran-Contra Affair: Shady in the 80s, Part 2"

Podcast: Stuff You Should Know
Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Airdate: August 8, 2026
Summary by Podcast Summarizer

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Episode Overview

This episode is the second part of Josh and Chuck’s deep dive into the Iran-Contra Affair, building on the foundation set in Part 1. The hosts unfurl the tale of one of the late-20th century’s most notorious political scandals, walking listeners through the details of the secret arms deals, the U.S. government’s shadowy funding of insurgents, the dominoes that led to the scandal's exposure, and the aftermath on political reputations and legal standing. The discussion carries the duo’s usual mix of conversational humor and in-depth knowledge, peppered with asides about 80s nostalgia and personal memories.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: From Nicaragua to Iran (02:16–06:17)

• Recap: The U.S. Congress banned funding for the Contras—anti-communist rebels fighting Nicaragua’s Sandinista government. The Reagan administration circumnavigated the ban by covertly fundraising, arming, and training the Contras.
• Pivot to Iran: The “Iran” in “Iran-Contra” comes into play with another foreign policy crisis—a series of American hostages taken by Lebanese terrorists with Iranian backing.
• Historical Context: After Iran’s 1979 revolution, anti-American sentiment swelled; hostages at the U.S. embassy were held for 444 days—a pivotal, trauma-inducing episode in American history.
  • Quote: “This is stuff I really remember ... the Iranian hostage crisis. I remember this as a 9-year-old very clearly.” —Chuck Bryant (05:57)

2. Hostages, Policy, and Reagan’s Dilemma (06:20–12:00)

• Negotiation Standstill: Reagan had campaigned on not negotiating with terrorists. However, Americans continued to be held hostage—a “real blemish on the presidency.” (04:31)
• Subterfuge: The administration found a workaround—channeling negotiation through Israel, historically more open to hostage exchanges.
  • Quote: “So while Reagan said ‘America will never negotiate with hostages,’ they didn’t say Israel will never negotiate ... on our behalf.” —Josh Clark (11:32)

3. The Iran-Iraq War & Arms for Hostages (12:18–16:15)

• Complication: Iran was embattled in the Iran-Iraq War. The U.S. publicly supported Iraq while secretly selling arms to Iran, essentially playing both sides.
• Covert Operations: The Reagan administration reached out to Iran’s moderate elements, offering arms in exchange for the release of hostages.
• Key Players: Oliver North, a relative novice at covert ops, was now running both the Contra and Iran operations.
  • Anecdote: North traveled to Iran under a fake passport (“William P. Good”), carrying cyanide pills “so that he could take his own life rather than be tortured.” (14:14)

4. The Mechanics: How It Worked (16:16–18:25)

• The Deal: Israel would send U.S.-made missiles to Iran, which the U.S. would then replenish for Israel—a technical circumvention rather than a direct arms-for-hostage deal.
  • 508 TOW (Tube-launched, Optically-tracked, Wire-guided) missiles sent, soon after which hostage Benjamin Weir was released.
  • Quote: “So 508 of these made it from Israel to Iran. And then in very short order ... one of the hostages ... was released. So it worked?” —Chuck Bryant (16:38)
• "Diversion of Funds": The operation turned profitable; profits from the arms sales were secretly funneled back to support the Contras.

5. Exposure: How Everything Fell Apart (23:21–32:35)

• The Downed Plane (24:00–26:57): In October 1986, Sandinista forces shot down a C-123 cargo plane making a daylight supply drop to Contras. The lone survivor, Eugene Hasenfus, had a parachute and was quickly captured. He revealed the operation, linking it directly to the CIA through his employment by the well-known CIA front, Southern Air Transport.
  • Quote: "[Hasenfus] sang like a canary ... said, 'This is my tenth supply mission. I presume that the CIA is running this. I don't know.'" —Josh Clark (25:52)
• More Leaks: The operation’s secrecy unraveled further due to loose lips at a Soldier of Fortune magazine party (30:03), leading to legal affidavits and media coverage.
• Final Straw: In November 1986, Lebanese newspaper Al Shira publicly reported on the arms-for-hostages deal, exposing the Iran side of the scandal.

6. The Aftermath: Scandal & Accountability? (36:02–47:18)

• Cleanup: Oliver North (with his secretary Fawn Hall) infamously shredded key documents before investigations could begin.
  • Quote: “It was called a shredding party ... We will never know the full truth behind this because of all the evidence that they shredded.” —Chuck Bryant (36:35)
• Scapegoats: North became the fall guy, but the official line was that upper levels (Reagan, Bush) were out of the loop—a narrative the public did not buy.
• Investigation & Evasion: Reagan’s memory “failed” him 88 times during deposition. The Tower Commission found his disengagement made plausible deniability possible.
  • Quote: “[They said] it was possible that he did not know about this ... That is the absolute best official finding he could have hoped for.” —Josh Clark (42:01)
• Legal Outcomes: Fourteen people were charged. North’s conviction was overturned on a technicality; Bush Sr. pardoned six people, including Weinberger and Claridge, before leaving office (44:16–44:57).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Oddities of 80s Political Maneuvering:
  • "America illegally and secretly sold missiles to Iran, used the proceeds from those missile sales to secretly and illegally fund the Contras ... That's why it's called Iran-Contra." —Josh Clark (19:07)
• On the Sheer Absurdity of the Covert Supply Missions:
  • “They did this at 2,500 feet in broad daylight ... it was just work. It was an everyday job. By this time, they'd been doing it for years.” —Josh Clark (24:26)
• On the Disappearance of Truth:
  • “The fact that Oliver North had shredded all those documents—they were all lost to history ... like the actual truth is lost to history.” —Josh Clark (46:16)

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Structured Timeline with Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:16 | Recap of Part 1; Congress’s ban on Contra funding; Reagan’s workaround | | 03:04 | Introduction of the Iran hostage element; American hostages in Lebanon tied to Iran | | 04:49 | Revolution in Iran, establishment of Islamic theocracy, American hostages | | 06:17 | Personal recollections of the Iranian hostage crisis | | 08:13 | Reagan’s anti-negotiation stance, negotiation by proxy | | 12:18 | U.S. simultaneously funding/supporting both sides in Iran-Iraq war | | 14:14 | Oliver North’s covert Iran trip, “William P. Good,” cyanide pills | | 15:42 | Step-by-step breakdown of the arms-for-hostages transactions | | 17:19 | Shift to direct U.S. involvement in missile sales to Iran; money handled via intermediaries | | 18:28 | Profits from arms sales redirected to the Contras | | 23:21 | Congress gives formal funding, but covert operation continues | | 24:00 | Plane shot down in Nicaragua; Hasenfus captured, exposure begins | | 26:16 | Details on Hasenfus, CIA links, effect of his testimony | | 30:03 | Soldier of Fortune party; loose talk leads to legal affidavit, more press coverage | | 32:03 | Lebanese newspaper exposes arms-for-hostages deal; public realization of linked operations | | 36:02 | Aftermath: North shreds documents; Reagan admin’s official line of ignorance | | 41:00 | Progression of public denials to partial admissions by Reagan | | 42:31 | Tower Commission’s conclusion; Reagan’s plausible deniability | | 43:56 | Legal consequences: probation, technicalities, and presidential pardons | | 44:57 | Bush’s involvement, critics’ accusations of cover-up | | 46:26 | Effect on Reagan’s reputation; decline and later recovery in approval ratings |

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Closing Thoughts

• The hosts emphasize how the real story behind Iran-Contra is obscured by lost evidence and official obfuscation. “Like the actual truth is lost to history.” —Josh Clark (46:16)
• Reagan’s legacy survives with mostly intact popular support despite the scandal.
  • “Upon his exit, his approval rating bounced all the way back up to the early 60s.” —Chuck Bryant (47:13)
• Chuck wonders aloud why there hasn’t been a Hollywood film: “Where’s this movie?” (47:29)

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For More

For those interested, Josh and Chuck recommend seeking out contemporary articles, firsthand accounts, and records to dig even deeper into this pivotal event in American history.

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End of summary. For any listener, this episode covers the complexities, absurdities, and unresolved questions of Iran-Contra affair with both clarity and plenty of Josh-and-Chuck charm.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Josh Clark]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Josh Clark]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Josh Clark]

Okay, everyone, buckle up for the thrilling conclusion of Iran Contra shady in the 80s, part two.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartradio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles Dibichok, Brian, there's Jerry over there, and this is stuff you should know. Iran Contra part two. Starting now. Go.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe we should do a quick catch up. Well, we're still going. You acted like I just went to sleep.

[Josh Clark]

No, it's true.

[Chuck Bryant]

So what's going on here is the United States Congress has decided that we cannot fund the Contras to fight the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. Shut off funding. So the Reagan administration makes a deep covert push to continue doing so through a bunch of fun and shady ways.

[Josh Clark]

Right. They're fundraising. They're directly arming the Contras. They're Training them, doing all sorts of crazy stuff. Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

But if you know that this is about Iran Contra and you're like, what about Iran? What's going on here? I haven't heard anything about Iran.

[Josh Clark]

Keep your socks on.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, here we go. This is where Iran enters the picture.

[Josh Clark]

Right. You can take your socks off.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, go.

[Josh Clark]

Are your socks on?

[Chuck Bryant]

I've got on little footy socks.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I do too. Cool. Oh, Jerry does. Too. Sweet. It's the way to go.

[Chuck Bryant]

Jerry has those true footies where you can't even see them at all.

[Josh Clark]

I can see them.

[Chuck Bryant]

Mine peek out just a little, which I'm not a huge fan of.

[Josh Clark]

Well, check out mine.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. No, see ems.

[Josh Clark]

No, see ems. Okay. Enter Iran. We really. That was a great intro. And it just went away.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

So on the other side of the world from Nicaragua, there was another foreign policy disaster simmering that Reagan had going, and it was in the form of Iran. And specifically it wasn't even in the form of Iran. It was in the form of a problem that America had. Doesn't really have much these days, but definitely did in the 70s and 80s where Americans would be taken hostage around the world, but specifically, almost exclusively by Lebanese terrorists who were, if not working on behalf of Iran, were definitely sponsored by Iran. And regardless of who was president, the fact that there were hostages being held by another country and there wasn't anything we could do about it, that was a real blemish on the presidency. It was not a very proud thing to think about for America. But that was this reality for a while there.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah. So Iran at the time, this is the early 80s, this is just a few years removed from the Iranian Revolution of 1979. And this is where we've talked about it before. Go look up photos of Iran in the mid-70s, pre revolution. And it looks like London in the swinging 60s and 70s.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Very kind of hip place to be. Iranian revolution happens, fundamentalists take control of the government that was previously the Shah of Iran, who was friendly to the West.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Friendly to America generally and the Ayatollah Khomeini. Khomeini.

[Josh Clark]

I've always heard Khomeini.

[Chuck Bryant]

Khomeini installed an Islamic theocracy and bad things started happening pretty quickly.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. It was about as quick a turn about face politically and socially as you can imagine.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. For a whole country.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

But not everyone in the country, as we'll learn. Like the whole country didn't just change overnight.

[Josh Clark]

No. But the Islamic theocracy was in Power. Very much so. One of the things that happened was they were not very fond of America or Americans. And the American embassy was famously stormed and 66Americans working there were taken hostage and held for more than a year.

[Chuck Bryant]

Man, this is stuff I really remember

[Josh Clark]

like 440 days or something.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, 444 days, man. The Iranian hostage crisis. I remember this as a 9 year old very clearly.

[Josh Clark]

Really?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I have no recollection of it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it was a big deal. Yellow ribbons and it was on the news constantly.

[Josh Clark]

I remember entering the room and being like, what does this have to do with Rainbow Brite turn this newscast?

[Chuck Bryant]

I even remember. So what happened was Jimmy Carter did not get these hostages freed during his, I was about to say reign, but that was sort of the opposite of who Jimmy Carter was.

[Josh Clark]

That's what everybody thinks of during his

[Chuck Bryant]

administration, his iron fisted reign, the days of terror. But within a few days, and that may have cost him the election, but within a few days of, or hours even of Reagan's inauguration, the hostages were freed. And I remember as a nine year old hearing kids parroting their parents conversations like it was really Carter that had him freed. You know, all the work he did up until then. And then other kids saying, are you kidding me? As soon as Reagan got in office they knew that they were toast and that Reagan wasn't gonna be a patsy like Carter. And I was like, what's a patsy? Who are these dudes? No, but I remember very distinctly. It's weird, like on the playground hearing this stuff.

[Josh Clark]

That's funny.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, like little nine year olds.

[Josh Clark]

I definitely didn't hear this when I was a kid, but I rem hearing later on as a grown up, still into Rainbow Bright, that it was Reagan's campaign was somehow in touch with Iran.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And that they brokered this. It also got them to wait to release the hostages until after Reagan was in office.

[Chuck Bryant]

The timing was not at all hours after his inauguration. No accident.

[Josh Clark]

It's a little fishy, you know what I mean? But whether it was, that's funny that I'm sure somebody's parents were like, yeah, it's because they were so scared of Reagan they knew that they better release these guys. That's totally not the case because there were other hostages taken by other. By actual Lebanese terrorists who were probably sponsored by Iran and they were held throughout Reagan's presidency.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And that's sort of a big part of this, the second half of this story was the fact that that was very embarrassing for Reagan. He didn't like hostages being held on his watch.

[Josh Clark]

No, but he had campaigned against negotiating with terrorists under any circumstances.

[Chuck Bryant]

So he's stuck now.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, because he's basically saying if you get taken hostage, I mean, you're on your own. We'll use our rhetoric and whatever we can to influence you being released, but we're not going to negotiate for your release. That's just the way it is.

[Chuck Bryant]

And that's a long standing American policy. And it makes sense because if you negotiate with terrorists, then that's just gonna lead to more kidnappings. Yeah, because they know that you're open

[Josh Clark]

for business, like anywhere in the world. Yeah, There was a kidnapping of TWA Flight 847. Very, very famous one. You know the picture of like the pilot leaning out of the cockpit and the guys in the picture with the gun behind him. That was 847.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

And that was. I mean, that was. I remember that one. I was probably nine then. And that was just scary. Cause they were flying all over the place. You had no idea what was gonna happen. People were being beaten on the plane. One Navy guy was beaten in, shot and throw. His body thrown out of the tarmac.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the 80s, it seems comparatively tame now in a lot of ways compared to the things that used to go on. Thank McDonald's hijackings and kidnappings and hostages. It's like the 80s were nuts.

[Josh Clark]

They were nuts. But Pac man, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

You know, Pac Man Fever, Pac man rapping Rodney. It was crazy, right?

[Josh Clark]

Rapid like. Is that Roddy Piper?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, Rapping Rodney Dangerfield, his big hit.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

No respect.

[Josh Clark]

What about the. What about the Icky Shuffle? That was a little crazy.

[Chuck Bryant]

Was that 80s?

[Josh Clark]

Sure. Late 80s.

[Chuck Bryant]

I guess so.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I got one for you. Okay, the. The Bears, what was their thing?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, the Super Bowl Shuffle.

[Josh Clark]

The Super Bowl Shuffle, right. Yeah, that was pretty 80s. I think they were 84.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, we're putting. You know, my band every year plays for sure. One gig at Decatur's Porch Fest. And every year we try to do a theme. And this year we're doing 80s, sort of new wave. And I jokingly suggested Pac Man Fever, the Rappin Rodney.

[Josh Clark]

Are you guys gonna do it?

[Narrator/Announcer]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

Those songs are terrible.

[Josh Clark]

Do you have a synth player playing with you?

[Chuck Bryant]

I bought Emily a keyboard and she's learning.

[Josh Clark]

Awesome. Yeah, she's gonna be like, wait, hold on. Huh?

[Chuck Bryant]

I hope not.

[Josh Clark]

That's cool, man.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, she's practicing.

[Josh Clark]

I've heard her do that.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, she played piano when she was a kid, so it's not the

[Josh Clark]

Biggest stretch I've heard that one. Her do that one Blondie song. She just brought the house down.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. One way or another.

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

We might bring that back. Cause that's 80s.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or was that 70s?

[Josh Clark]

It was so close on the cusp. I seriously doubt anybody's gonna throw a beer can at you for it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Anyway, Porch Fest, everyone. I'll publicize it in October.

[Josh Clark]

Nice.

[Chuck Bryant]

So Reagan's hands are tied in every way possible because he can't. On. He can't negotiate with terrorists. The only option is to send in a covert Delta Force team, which Carter

[Josh Clark]

tried that and it didn't work.

[Chuck Bryant]

Doesn't always work. You could lose your own men. And I think that's what happened in Carter's case.

[Josh Clark]

Right? Yeah, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

So what he can do, though, without anyone knowing, is totally negotiate with terrorists.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Just as long as the American public doesn't know. Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And that's what happened.

[Josh Clark]

And he followed that Reagan playbook where it's like, okay, I said this. Well, if I just change this one little part.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

It makes it all fine.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right again.

[Josh Clark]

As long as the American public doesn't know. So while Reagan said, America will never negotiate with hostages, they didn't say Israel will never negotiate with. On our behalf of terrorists for hostages. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So actually, Israel had a long standing policy of negotiating with terrorists. They would kidnap people from the other side, and then they'd be like, all right, I'll give you five guys. I've only got two. Let me kidnap a few of your people. Okay, now I have five. Like, there would be negotiations for hostage exchanges all the time.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Between Israel and Palestine.

[Josh Clark]

Right. They just knew what they were doing. So they said, okay, well, if Israel goes to Iran and says, hey, you know this American over there, why don't you get them released? We can help you out with some stuff. What do you think about this?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So earlier when I mentioned the fact that Iran as whole cloth did not change overnight as a country, the government did. But there were still plenty of people there that were a little more moderate in their views. And the Reagan administration had a channel to them. So he was talking to them, these more moderate factions, and making a little headway. And they were like, by the way, we'll totally give you these hostages if you give us arms.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Because Iran was fighting the Iran Iraq War. At least half of it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And this is just where stuff is just totally crazy because we were funding both sides.

[Josh Clark]

At the very least, we were advising both sides.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I mean, we Directly gave money to Iraq.

[Josh Clark]

No, you're right.

[Chuck Bryant]

We sold them weapons and we provided training and intelligence.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, and this wasn't secret. This was like a real deal thing.

[Josh Clark]

We were publicly supporting Iraq, but then we were secretly arming Iran.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I think what they never proved beyond a doubt was that we went to Saddam Hussein and said, hey, why don't you go in there and overthrow Iran?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, really?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. There was never, like, we started it. I don't think that was ever. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence that that was the case, but never like the smoking gun that we actually encourage Saddam Hussein to do, so.

[Josh Clark]

Gotcha.

[Chuck Bryant]

But it's just, man, when you look at how all this played out over the years, it's just maddening.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. It's a S show.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So Iraq and Iran are fighting. We're supplying both. Playing both sides of the coin.

[Guest/Advertiser]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

And we offered arms to Iran. And who are you going to call?

[Josh Clark]

Israel.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not Ghostbusters.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, Gorbanafar.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, you're going to call Ali North.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I would have gotten there eventually. Yeah. Because, okay, so remember, Ali north is this total novice when it comes to covert operations, but by the time.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not anymore. Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. He's been running the Nicaragua op for years now, just doing a bang up job of it. So they're like, well, sure, we'll have him do this incredibly illegal, super sensitive arms sale to Iran, too. Why don't you come on over here, Ollie? And Ollie said, well, okay, that's fine, but I need to go get the lay of the land. And he actually traveled to Iran with a fake passport under an assumed name, William P. Good, with an e. And when he went, it was dangerous enough that William Casey, supposedly Oliver north later testified, gave him cyanide pills so that he could take his own life rather than be tortured by the Iranians. If this were in fact like some

[Chuck Bryant]

sort of setup, again, right out of a movie.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, but Oliver north went to Iran with cyanide pills and a fake passport.

[Chuck Bryant]

Billy.

[Josh Clark]

Good. Yep.

[Chuck Bryant]

So everything went great, though.

[Josh Clark]

It did. He didn't need the cyanide pills after all.

[Chuck Bryant]

He did not. He dealt with, like you mentioned earlier, this Iranian businessman named Gorbanifar. And this guy was ten shades of shady. So much so that the CIA wouldn't even deal with them.

[Josh Clark]

No, they issued a burn notice on him in 1983, which.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't even know what that is. That means just a TV show. He's dead to us.

[Josh Clark]

It's basically stay away. It's putting him on blast to all the other intelligence agencies in the world.

[Chuck Bryant]

Gotcha. Persona non grata.

[Josh Clark]

CIA won't even deal with this guy. And so Ollie north is like, yeah, I'll deal with this guy.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right. So with his help, Oliver north set up a deal where. And it's so simple to look at, like, Israel. You give them your missiles, and then we'll just replace those missiles for you. With our missiles.

[Josh Clark]

Yep.

[Chuck Bryant]

So we're not giving them missiles.

[Josh Clark]

You are. And because no American explicitly said to Iran, hey, we're doing this so that you guys will get these hostages released. It wasn't an arms for hostages deal. And so Reagan's vow to never negotiate with terrorists remained intact.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. 508 TOW TOW missiles. What does that stand for?

[Josh Clark]

Tube launched optically tracked wireless guided missile. Which is like. It's like the tube launched. There's a tube. And it can be, like, mounted on the ground. Mounted on a jeep. It's super portable, but they'll blow some stuff up.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think I've seen these.

[Josh Clark]

You have?

[Chuck Bryant]

So 508 of these made it from Israel to Iran. And then in very short order, a couple of days later, one of the hostages, Benjamin Weir, Minister, who. Who was held by Lebanese terrorists for 16 months, was released. So it worked?

[Josh Clark]

It did work. Huzzah. It was a big deal around the White House, too. But they said, let's try it again. But this time, it seemed a little messy to get Israel involved. Let's just do this ourselves. Ali, you think you can handle this? And he said, sure. Me and Gerbanafor have this. So rather than Israel giving arms to Iran, Richard Secord got brought in, just like with Nicaragua. And again, this isn't like, years after Nicaragua.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Nicaragua is at full bore in full swing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, it's still going. Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And Ollie north is running both operations simultaneously. And so the new setup was the Department of Defense would sell the CIA missiles for 3,700 bucks a pop. The CIA would sell them to Richard Secord at cost, and then Secord would sell them to Gorbanafar for ten grand apiece. And then Gorbanafar would go sell them to Iran for whatever he charged Iran.

[Chuck Bryant]

Can you imagine?

[Josh Clark]

I can't. I guarantee it was more than the 10 grand.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And this happened multiple times over the course of a little over a year. America secretly transferred 2,000 missiles and missile parts to Iran in eight shipments.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. For the release of hostages.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Ultimately, there were three hostages that got released out of seven that had been taken hostage. Totally.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And didn't he say ultimately there were three more hostages taken? So they netted out at zero.

[Josh Clark]

At zero.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Guest/Advertiser]

So.

[Josh Clark]

But that was the whole Iran operation.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. But here's the deal. This price markup means that that shell company and those Swiss bank accounts were making a lot of money. And so much so that I think one of them had $3 million made in interest alone. So at some point, someone's like, hey, this is a money making operation now, why don't we tie a little bow on all this and use some of that money to fund the Contras? Cause you guys are doing both of these things and you need money, Congress won't give it to you. Forget the fundraising omelets.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

We'll just use the money from these illegal arms sales to fund the Contras.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. And that's exactly what happened. So to put it in plain terms, America illegally and secretly sold missiles to Iran, used the proceeds from those missile sales to secretly and illegally fund the Contras to help them overthrow their government down in Nicaragua. That's what the Reagan administration did.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

That's why it's called Iran Contra. That's where they came together. There was a diversion of funds.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And the. I think it was by 1986, Congress finally got back on board because of this drumbeat from Reagan over the years of how much we need to really do this officially. And keep in mind, Congress still didn't know any of this is going on secretly. And then Congress said, all right, we'll give you $100 million to aid this cause.

[Josh Clark]

And Reagan said, hot diggity dog.

[Chuck Bryant]

You would think that was the end of all the COVID stuff.

[Josh Clark]

It wasn't, though. No, no, it still continued on, but now it was legitimized and had even better funding. But that was not the end of the whole thing. Like, everybody didn't just get to walk away and say that was close. Because the whole thing started to come apart, actually. And I say that we take an ad break and come back and talk about it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Great.

[Josh Clark]

After this.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, now, when you're on the road driving in your truck, why not learn a thing or two from Josh and Chuck? It's stuff you should know.

[Guest/Advertiser]

All right,

[Narrator/Announcer]

dad, Disney activities are on Lingokids.

[Guest/Advertiser]

What?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Moana and Elsa and Marvel's Spider Man.

[Chuck Bryant]

All of them on Lingokids?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yes, dad, on Lingokids.

[Josh Clark]

That's pretty cool.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I know. You just lost them for the rest of the afternoon.

[Chuck Bryant]

Worth it.

[Josh Clark]

Full of fun activities, inspired by Disney's

[Narrator/Announcer]

Moana, Frozen, Zootopia, Marvel's Spider man, and more. Lingokids is where little ones discover more about favorite characters.

[Josh Clark]

Lingokids. Everything kids love. Download it for free.

[Guest/Advertiser]

I'm Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. You know what I love about cooking? The endless inspiration, sharing exceptional flavors, and of course, the best ingredients. I refuse to make a dish without them. McCormick has been and is an essential in the kitchen now. McCormick's new line of signature seasonings make bringing fresh inspiration and and endless versatility to everyday dishes easier than ever. There's the everyday essential garlic and olive oil, the savory sweetness of caramelized onion, and globally inspired flavors like the herbie with a touch of heat, chimichurri and chili garlic that elevates everything from ramen to stir fry to even grilled meats. Try the chimichurri blend to make your steaks delicious. Each signature seasoning is crafted by flavor experts to make every dish more delicious. When you want to make your best, it's got to be McCormick. Find your favorite at McCormick.com hi, I'm

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Josh Clark]

Okay, Chuck, so 1986. Congress is back on board. I think it's worth pointing out that that's exactly four years after the Democrats took control of the house in 1982. So I wonder if the Republicans took control back in 86 and that's why the funding got turned back onto the contras.

[Chuck Bryant]

We could solve this.

[Josh Clark]

I like to speculate instead.

[Chuck Bryant]

So this all might Have. Who knows if this ever would have even been found out had it not been for the sharpshooting of a young Sandinistan soldier named Jose Fernando Canales alman.

[Josh Clark]

Nice.

[Chuck Bryant]

In October 5, 1986, there was a cargo plane, a C123 called the Provider, flying 70 Soviet Kalashnikovs, 100,000 rounds of ammo, rocket grenades and other supplies. And this is one of those things where you said they would fly things over and kick them out the back of the plane.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

This is one of those runs.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. The problem with this particular run, though, is that they did this at 2,500ft in broad daylight.

[Chuck Bryant]

They got a little lazy, a tad bit. Or maybe cocky.

[Josh Clark]

I don't even know if it's that. I think it was more like this was just work. It was an everyday job. By this time, they'd been doing it for years.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

You know, and the operation was just humming along so nicely that it was almost on autopilot.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So, yeah, they did this one supply drop on October 5, 1986, in broad

[Chuck Bryant]

daylight, and there were four crew aboard. William J. Cooper Wallace, Buzz Sawyer, Freddy Vilches, and a guy named Eugene Hassenfuss, who. And again, this sliding doors thing. Hassenfuss is the only guy who had a parachute. He borrowed it from his brother. A skydiver. Cause, you know, he thought it might be smart to take a parachute.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

No one else had parachutes.

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

Had he not had a parachute, this may have turned out differently.

[Josh Clark]

It may have. For sure, he was the only one that survived this plane crash because he was the only one who borrowed the parachute from his brother. And he jumped out, landed, made it safely into the jungle. And I think he actually survived and evaded the Sandinistas for maybe a day or something like that before he was captured. And when he was captured, they led him out of the jungle with a rope around his neck. Just. Just about as big of a prisoner as you can imagine. Super publicized. There were billboards of him being led around by Sandinistas. And they started asking him questions. And he was like, what do you want to know?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, he sang like a canary.

[Josh Clark]

He really did. He said, this is my tenth supply mission. I presume that the CIA is running this. I don't know. And he would know this would be something that he could legitimately guess at, at least, because he had actually worked on CIA airdrops over Vietnam or Cambodia for Air America back in the Vietnam War.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, but he wasn't like. He sings like a canary. Cause he's not very high up on the totem pole. Like, his job was to get up there and shove this stuff out of the back of the plane for three grand a month.

[Josh Clark]

Right. He wasn't even a CIA operator. He's just former Marine who had a background working with Air America years before. But by this time, by the time he joins on doing this for the Contras, he was like working as a construction worker part time in Wisconsin back home. So this was like pretty good money. I think he was getting seven grand in today's dollars a month for basically kicking AK47 crates out the back of a plane over Nicaragua.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So he's not the kind of guy that's gonna take the fall for anyone. So he's singing like a canary.

[Josh Clark]

Even if he had kept his mouth shut, it wouldn't have mattered. Well, that's true, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Because all the other guys, including Hassan Fuss, had their wallets on the plane. They had all their employee ID cards. And in fact, I don't even think we mentioned in episode one, the company that was set up to do these drops was set up, called Southern Air Transportation out of, I guess, Miami. So they all had their Southern Air Transport ID cards, which was the CIA front.

[Josh Clark]

Like, everybody knew Southern Air Transport was a CIA front. So they might as well have had like CIA junior badges or something.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or like Michael Keaton in Out of Sight when he has the big FBI T shirt.

[Josh Clark]

I haven't seen that one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, you haven't seen out of Sight?

[Josh Clark]

No. Is that the one where he, George

[Chuck Bryant]

Clooney and Jennifer Lopez?

[Josh Clark]

Is he a bad guy in it?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, he's a good guy. But he walks in, he plays Ray Nicollette, who played same character in Jackie Brown, FBI guy.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

But it's funny because he walks in with an FBI T shirt on and Dennis Farina is Jennifer Lopez's dad and he's a former cop, and he goes, hey, Ray, let me ask you, you got one that says Undercover Dennis Farina, man, Class ad. Oh, man, you gotta see out of Sight. That's classic.

[Josh Clark]

All right, I'll check it out.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like one of the better movies.

[Josh Clark]

I mean, I know exactly the movie you're talking about. I avoided it like the point.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's so good. You would love it. So Southern Air Transport, CAA front. There's also a log book that connected this flight and all the other flights. And then Hasenfuss in his wallet had a business card to Robert W. Owen.

[Josh Clark]

This is a big one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Who was working with Oliver North. In Washington.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Which. So that provided a direct line between Oliver north and some guys who were kicking Kalashnikovs out of the back of a plane over Nicaragua. So that was a really big deal that when this guy got captured and you know, told the Sandinistas as much as he knew because the Sandinistas were like, attention world. Yeah, listen to what we just found out. The CIA has totally been funding these Contra rebels who are trying to overthrow this sovereign government and we think you guys should know about it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And it wasn't like you could totally discount that, even though it was from the Sandinistan's. Like Congress and the American media were like, what I'm sure Congress was like, wait a minute.

[Josh Clark]

Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

This, this reeks of like something that had been happening that we tried to shut down.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Because remember, even if the CIA was briefing Congress, it was either Bill Casey or Dewey Claridge and they were doing a really obtuse job of this, keeping Congress at arm's length. So anytime something like this came out, almost none of Congress knew the full extent of this. And it was always in flagrant violation of whatever Congress wanted or whatever Congress had agreed to.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And this wasn't like, this was sort of the straw that broke it all open or that broke the camel's back.

[Josh Clark]

Broke the camel's back wide open.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh God, that's gross.

[Josh Clark]

Poor camel.

[Chuck Bryant]

Things had been unraveling for a bit. There was a party in 1985 in Virginia thrown. I can't wait.

[Josh Clark]

I can't wait.

[Chuck Bryant]

Thrown by Soldier of Fortune magazine. Can you imagine?

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

What's that party like?

[Josh Clark]

I don't want to know. I can't imagine. I used to read Soldier of Fortune when I was in my ninja training as like a 10 year old boy. And even then I was like, this magazine makes my stomach hurt.

[Chuck Bryant]

And it's in 1985. Like, can you imagine the amount of like blow being secretly done in the bathroom at that party?

[Josh Clark]

Sure. But also they were making snuff movies in the living room and there's no telling what was going on. As Soldier of Fortune, we can tell you, at the very least, there was a lot of boasting going on openly about this contra operation. And again, this is a time when people don't know about this stuff.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. But you know what happens is like you get enough people and enough years and people start talking, people start bragging and all of a sudden you have a couple of gin and tonics at a Soldier of Fortune party and you're like, hey, guess what? And that's what happened.

[Josh Clark]

Somebody goes, what?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And you go, here it comes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And they drop the. You know, they drop the bomb that what's been going on. A concerned citizen hears this. I guess he must have been mistakenly invited to the soldier police department.

[Josh Clark]

I don't know how that guy got invited or they just happened to talk to the wrong guy or whatever, but probably that he was like, I am really fearful of my life for saying something about this, but I feel like somebody should know. So he went to a lawyer, a human rights lawyer named David Sheehan, and he said, you go tell everybody. You put your life on the line.

[Chuck Bryant]

And he did. He submitted an affidavit to federal court, started doing interviews, talking to journalists, drumming up support. White House was like, we don't know what you're talking about.

[Josh Clark]

You're a crazy man.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like, this is all 100% made up. And finally, it took a Lebanese newspaper, Al Shira, that reported on this deal, this arms for hostage deal, like in a legitimate newspaper.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So now both stories have been blown open. You've got Eugene Hassanfuss captured, and the contra operation is blown open. And now Al Shira is reporting on the Iran arms for hostage deal. And really crazily enough, these two separate arms of this one scandal came out within a month of each other.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Which is. It's bizarre, but that's what happened. And now it was like, it's on the table. America's media knows about it. Congress knows about it. Heads are about to roll.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, we'll take our final break, and we'll come back and talk about the aftermath of Iran Kondra. Well, now, when you're on the road driving in your truck, why not learn a thing or two from Josh and Chuck? It's stuff you should know. Stop your shirt. All right,

[Narrator/Announcer]

dad, Disney activities are on. Lingokids.

[Guest/Advertiser]

What?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Moana and Elsa and Marvel's Spider Man.

[Chuck Bryant]

All of them on Lingokids?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yes, dad, on Lingokids.

[Josh Clark]

That's pretty cool.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I know. You just lost them for the rest of the afternoon.

[Chuck Bryant]

Worth it.

[Josh Clark]

Full of fun activities inspired by Disney's

[Narrator/Announcer]

Moana, Frozen Zootopia, Marvel's Spider man, and more. Lingokids is where little ones discover more about favorite characters.

[Chuck Bryant]

Lingokids, everything kids love.

[Josh Clark]

Download it for free.

[Guest/Advertiser]

I'm Martha Stewart from the Martha Stewart Podcast. You know what I love about cooking? The endless inspiration, sharing exceptional flavors, and of course, the best ingredients. I refuse to make a dish without them. McCormick has been and is an essential in the kitchen now. McCormick's new line of signature seasonings make bringing fresh inspiration and and endless versatility to everyday dishes easier than ever. There's the everyday essential garlic and olive oil, the savory sweetness of caramelized onion, and globally inspired flavors like the herby with a touch of heat, chimichurri and chili garlic that elevates everything from ramen to stir fry to even grilled meats. Try the chimichurri blend to make your steaks delicious. Each signature seasoning is crafted by flavor experts to make every dish more delicious. When you want to make your best, it's got to be McCormick. Find your [e-mail] hey, this is Hayes

[Chuck Bryant]

Davenport and Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Every episode, we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible, so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes or. And understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller.

[Josh Clark]

The definition of what is a movie

[Chuck Bryant]

has kind of changed anyway, too, right? What do you think it is now? It's images and words being spoken, captured by some sort of technology. Danny McBride. Oh, that's fantastic. And you make it on. You make your own. That's great. I call him Tarot Reed.

[Josh Clark]

It's a good name. They're all named after cast members of American Pie.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I call.

[Josh Clark]

I don't.

[Chuck Bryant]

I never looked up if she was in this, but I call him Leechi Sobieski. Yet I don't think she was an American Pie. But I still haven't looked it up. Haven't looked it up. She was prominent.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Then Mary Steenbergen. Why are you guys talking to me?

[Guest/Advertiser]

Like, why is so down to me

[Josh Clark]

that you think I don't understand your

[Guest/Advertiser]

little play, play game?

[Chuck Bryant]

I just really. I'm trying to set you up for success. Success here.

[Josh Clark]

Listen to Hollywood handbook on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Chuck, you promised. After math. Let's hear it.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so every. Everything is exposed. Oliver north was no longer in business doing his thing.

[Josh Clark]

No. He shut down shop real quick.

[Chuck Bryant]

He did, but not before very famously, he and his very 80s haired secretary, Fawn Hall. I forgot. I was like, fawn Hall. I looked her up and as soon as I saw her, I was like, right, yeah. Fawn Hall. Who can forget that hair? She could barely walk through a door.

[Josh Clark]

No, it was ginormous. For sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was so great. I would be fearful around a shredder if I were her. But she was not fearful at all. She and Oliver north spent a day. They called it a shredding party. I mean, we will never know the full truth behind this because of all the evidence that they shredded.

[Guest/Advertiser]

Yep.

[Josh Clark]

As far as anyone knows, Oliver north decided on his own to shred every document he had on it.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

And yeah, that's it. Now it's the, the official narrative that has been written into the history book, which you can just guarantee is not anywhere near the full story.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. So it all comes out. The Reagan administration start looking around and they're like, well, who's gonna be the patsy for this one? And Oliver north could not escape it. But they were like, he's small potatoes, he'll go down well.

[Josh Clark]

I think he was even willing to take the fall. Like he knew he was gonna be the fall guy and was like, okay, that's part of the job.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. But they knew that it had to the American public and certainly Congress wasn't gonna be satisfied with just Oliver North.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

So who did they land on?

[Josh Clark]

So the official line became this Poindexter, and I guess McFarlane would have started it, became fully aware of just how badly Reagan wanted to help the Contras and said, I'm going to do something about this, and tapped Ali north and said, we need to help the Contras out, go help them out, figure it out. And north went off and basically went rogue on his own and set up this whole operation, created this entire network with Secord, decided to do the Iranian arms deal, all this stuff, basically on his own.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. Like Reagan and Bush knew nothing about it.

[Josh Clark]

Nothing about it. And that the buck stopped at Poindexter. Ultimately it didn't go any further. William Casey being CIA, he was basically out of the loop. That was the official story they came out with.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

And America went, you're kidding, right? This is a joke.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean I remember these hearings, even as a little kid, like watching these and then watching the news coverage of it. And like we mentioned, Oliver north strolling in there with his dress uniform and you know, by all accounts being a pretty stand up guy, like he didn't rat anyone out.

[Josh Clark]

He didn't. But he also, he was like, there's no way the President didn't know about this. He said, I don't have any direct evidence that the President did know about it, but it's my understanding that the President was fully aware of what Was going on.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. What was the deal with this missile supply shipment, though? That's the one thing I didn't quite get.

[Josh Clark]

So there was. North got rid of all the documents that he could. Right, right. Well, north didn't have any control over CIA documents. And at that first missile resupply, where they were resupplying Israel, he had a CIA. He basically said, hey, C, do you know anybody I can use to ship these things? I've got an emergency here. I need to get these to Israel fast. And the CIA being. The CIA is still a bureaucracy. They had to document this event.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

So there was a document out there now.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. It was not shredded.

[Josh Clark]

Right. That he couldn't get his hands on, that he couldn't shred. And so this led to Reagan taking responsibility or saying, okay, I was aware of this, this Iran missile deal by backdating an order to William Casey, saying, I order you not to tell Congress about this, even though you're supposed to. So Reagan basically said on paper, I know about this Iran. This one missile transfer to Iran had no idea about the Contras.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. Okay.

[Josh Clark]

And at first they started out denying everything.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah. Like after this, I'll share a story that we talked about. He went on television, Reagan did, and denied everything.

[Josh Clark]

He said all this is just total BS.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, exactly.

[Josh Clark]

10 days now. Let's stop talking about it, everybody.

[Chuck Bryant]

10 days after that, Reagan had another press conference where he talked about the Iran operation. And he acknowledged it, but said, what we're really doing here is just trying to sort of send a signal to Iran that we want friendlier relations.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

And it was not arms for hostage.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly. And then. So that was 10 days after the first denial.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

And then four months after that, because the reporting would not stop, he basically said, okay, yeah, whatever it started out as, I admit that it devolved into an arms for hostage deal.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

Which. Even that. Even that admission, which is the closest he ever came to admitting responsibility for it, even. That's just total BS and fantasy. It was from the outset in arms for hostages deal. The whole thing was set up to get hostages released, and that was it. So there was no other way to put it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

But he denied that to his dying day.

[Chuck Bryant]

As far as fallout, Poindexter resigned, Oliver north was fired. Casey died in a hospital. Not too long after this whole thing was exposed.

[Josh Clark]

I mean, like weeks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So the press was all over the President. He appointed the Tower Commission to look into this.

[Josh Clark]

The President appointed a commission to investigate the President's own administration's. Wrongdoing.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And it was determined that Reagan's disengagement from the management of his White House created conditions such that it was possible that he did not know about this,

[Josh Clark]

which that is the absolute best official finding he could have hoped for, because it basically says Reagan didn't know he had a rogue guy working for him. A true believer, a patriot. But Reagan didn't know about this. And, yeah, he should have had a closer watch on his executive branch, but he didn't. What are you going to do? Let's get Mr. T in here for a photo op with Nancy.

[Chuck Bryant]

There was a criminal investigation, and what they were really honing in on was the $18 million in profits that were made. And what happened to that money, where it went? 14 people were charged. Oliver north was tried and found guilty on three counts. One of the counts was for getting a $16,000 security system installed in his home, courtesy of Secord. With that money, there was a rumor

[Josh Clark]

that there was a bounty on his head from terrorists.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. Secord hooked him up.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Now, that was a big problem for north because North's whole bag was. I was following orders that I assumed were coming from the President ultimately. And I was doing it out of my patriotic duty and a sense of, you know, as a true believer that we need to get rid of communism. And the American public loved it. They were like, great, make this man a saint. Congress started to love it, too, and he got off. But that was a real problem because it's saying, well, you took this gift from funds from this illicit arms sales.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. But it was a gift of a security system to help protect his family. So it's not like, you know, it was a gift of ten pounds of

[Josh Clark]

blow and a Nicaraguan sex worker from the Sandinistian government.

[Chuck Bryant]

Exactly. Secord was convicted of one count of lying to Congress. And the investigators, he basically denied that north received any funds from any of this. So it's still kind of hinged on that security system, I guess.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So everybody went to jail forever after that point, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, that's not true at all.

[Josh Clark]

What?

[Chuck Bryant]

Hakeem got two years probation, a $5,000 fine.

[Josh Clark]

Secord got two years prob. Probation?

[Chuck Bryant]

Is that what he got? Two years probation?

[Josh Clark]

So the two guys who were actually running the company that ran this whole thing each got two years probation.

[Chuck Bryant]

North's conviction was overturned on a technicality. And President Bush, the senior Bush on Christmas Eve. This was Christmas Eve as he was leaving office, right?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yep.

[Chuck Bryant]

He issued six pardons, basically, Let everyone off the hook, including Caspar Weinberger, who hadn't even gone to trial yet.

[Guest/Advertiser]

No.

[Josh Clark]

And neither had Dwayne Claridge. Dewey Claridge was going to stand trial too. Both of them received preemptive pardons. And a lot of people are like, that was about the shadiest set of pardons anyone's ever issued. Because there's a lot of people out there who say Bush really walked away from this scot free. But there is no way he wasn't even more involved in this than Reagan was.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, George Bush withheld, subpoenaed, his subpoenaed diary entries that basically indicated that he had full knowledge of this the entire time. Eventually, in 1992, independent counsel Lawrence Walsh asked for these again. And Bush, like, said, I asked you for these diary entries. And Bush was like, I didn't. You did. I didn't fully understand. It was inadvertent. Like, you asked me for a lot of stuff I didn't know. You asked me for the diary entries. And Walsh was really upset. And he said, the Iran Contrast Contra cover up has now been completed. And George Bush is a president who has such a contempt for honesty and arrogant disregard for the rule of law.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And I mean, the forestalling that the Reagan White House and then later on the Bush White House did in allowing these investigations to go forward and trying to keep Congress at arm's length after everything came out, it worked because there were articles of impeachment introduced in the House against Ronald Reagan and they managed to stave him off to where it was like, well, he's leaving office anyway, forget about it. This investigation took years and years and years. And then finally when Bush pardoned everybody, that was it. There was nothing else to do. Everybody who was involved was off scot free. And then the fact that Oliver north had shredded all those documents, they were all lost to history. Like the actual truth is lost to history.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Reagan, his reputation took a hit, a temporary hit for a while there. He went from 63% in the span of a couple of months to 43 to 47%, depending on which poll you looked at on his approval rating. And he would get it back, though, despite in the 1990 deposition, the very, very famous deposition where Ronald Reagan said, I don't remember or I don't recall 88 times. That was very big deal. It was all over the news.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was almost as famous or just as famous as Bill Clinton's. Very famous. Depends what your definition of is is.

[Josh Clark]

Right? Exactly.

[Chuck Bryant]

But Reagan Rebounded, he did, man, to

[Josh Clark]

the most popular presidency since fdr, Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Upon his exit, his approval rating had bounced all the way back up to the early 60s.

[Josh Clark]

Mr. T famously carried him out of the White House on his shoulders on his last day in office.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man.

[Josh Clark]

So that's Iran Contra.

[Chuck Bryant]

Man, what a story.

[Josh Clark]

Heck of a story.

[Chuck Bryant]

Where's this movie?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. Hopefully we'll get some rights to it after this episode.

[Chuck Bryant]

I want to play Fawn Hall.

[Josh Clark]

That's great.

[Chuck Bryant]

You get Jerry to play Fawn Hall.

[Josh Clark]

That'd be great. Jerry. Well, in the meantime, while we find a suitable wig for Jerry, you can find out more about Iran Contra by going and reading contemporary articles on it. I'm telling you, it's really awesome. And since I said that, it's time for listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm going to call this follow up on the moon landing thing. Hey, guys. In my opinion, the Apollo missions and moon landings are the most significant events in the history of life on Earth. On the question why the command module and lunar lander were launched separated, I think the reason was to allow the command module to be ejected in case of an emergency. At the very top of the Apollo stack was the launch escape system. Like an ejector seat on steroids. I imagine they had to keep things as light and nimble as possible for the LES to be effective. I don't think you mentioned something that's really significant. The Apollo 8 mission was the very first time humans went to the moon. On top of being the first time we broke free of Earth's gravity, like 11. The stakes were incredibly high. They had to first insert the correct trajectory to make it to the moon, then do a burn to enter the orbit around the moon, then perform another burn to break free of the moon's gravity and head back toward Earth. If any piece was not in place, those astronauts would have spent the rest of their lives either orbiting the sun or orbiting the moon. Apollo 8 also gave us the Earthrise photo.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I've been hearing a lot about Apollo 8 lately, too, so this person is hats off to you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Jim Lovell was on both Apollo 8 and Apollo 13. He traveled to the moon twice, but never had the opportunity to land.

[Josh Clark]

That is so sad.

[Chuck Bryant]

Signed, a space geek, Noah Aloy.

[Josh Clark]

Nice work, Noah Aloy.

[Chuck Bryant]

Aloy. Aloy.

[Josh Clark]

Great name, too. Thanks a lot for getting in touch with us. We love space geeks. We love to put you guys in headlocks and rub your heads with our knuckles until you go stop.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's called a noogie right here on Earth.

[Josh Clark]

That's right. If you want a noogie from me and Chuck, send us a Space Geeky or any kind of geeky thing. We love that kind of stuff. You can go on to stuffyouchouldknow.com and follow our social links. And you can send us a good old fashioned email, wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, and send it off to stuffpodcastheartradio.com

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Guest/Advertiser]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Josh Clark]

Guaranteed Human.