Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Stuff You Should Know" – Episode on Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness

Release Date: May 3, 2025 | Hosts: Josh Clark, Charles "Chuck" Bryan, Dave C. Kooston | Produced by iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction to Muzak

In this episode, Josh Clark and Chuck Bryan delve into the fascinating history and evolution of Muzak, a name synonymous with background music across various public spaces. They explore Muzak's origins, its impact on workplaces and public environments, and its transformation over the decades.

The Origins of Muzak

George Square: The Inventor of Muzak

The discussion begins with the introduction of George Square, the man credited with inventing Muzak. Square, a highly accomplished individual born in 1865, held a doctorate in electrical science from Johns Hopkins and served as a Major General in the Army Engineer Corps. His significant contributions include pioneering multiplexing technology, which allowed multiple telephone signals to be transmitted over a single wire—a foundational advancement in telecommunications.

Josh Clark highlights Square’s ingenuity:

“He basically figured out a way to increase their output and efficiency by multiplexing and by sending superimposing high frequency radio signals over those low frequency telegraph signals.” [12:38]

Square's initial foray into Muzak was an attempt to provide music to homes via electrical wires, offering a subscription service that delivered instrumental versions of popular songs. Although wireless radio soon overshadowed his wired approach, Square's vision laid the groundwork for what Muzak would become.

Muzak's Rise to Prominence

From Home to Business Markets

After shifting focus from residential to commercial markets around 1934, Square rebranded his service as Muzak. This move proved transformative as businesses—hotels, restaurants, offices—embraced Muzak to enhance their environments. The Muzak Corporation introduced "stimulus progression," a model designed to maintain productivity by subtly increasing the tempo of music throughout the workday.

Josh Clark explains the significance of stimulus progression:

“They divided the workday into 15 minute increments and basically set a DJ playlist every 15 minutes.” [25:02]

This strategy aimed to prevent mid-afternoon slumps and keep workers energized, making Muzak an essential tool for boosting workplace efficiency.

Muzak in Pop Culture

Muzak’s Ubiquity and Media Representation

Muzak became an integral part of daily life from the 1950s through the 1980s, playing in elevators, malls, buses, and even on Air Force One. Its pervasive presence made it a staple in various media representations, often portrayed humorously or ironically.

Chuck Bryan reminisces about iconic scenes:

“One of the big reasons why it's a bad word to a lot of people…when you put on music, it takes a lot of that edge off.” [32:21]

Scenes from movies like The Blues Brothers and Airplane 2 highlight Muzak’s role in creating mundane yet oddly comforting backdrops, cementing its place in popular culture.

Technological Innovations

Pioneering the Future of Music Distribution

Muzak was a trailblazer in adopting new technologies to distribute music. From vinyl records to automated reel-to-reel tapes and even satellite broadcasting, Muzak continually evolved to stay ahead. These advancements enabled Muzak to maintain a vast catalog of over 1.5 million commercially recorded songs by the time it was acquired by Mood Media in 2009.

Josh Clark marvels at their innovation:

“They launched their own satellite in the 70s. They had a computer database in the 70s. They were very much pioneers and early adopters of a lot of different technology.” [49:27]

Competition and Market Shifts

The Rise of Yesco

In the 1980s, Muzak faced significant competition from Yesco, a company that introduced "foreground music" by licensing current popular songs instead of relying solely on instrumental covers. This shift catered to evolving consumer preferences, where lyrics and contemporary tunes became increasingly important.

Josh Clark notes the competitive landscape:

“Yesco was doing basically the opposite of what Muzak did. Rather than making covers of canned music, they would just get licenses for hot new songs and play those.” [43:29]

The emergence of Yesco marked the beginning of Muzak’s decline in popularity as consumer tastes moved towards more engaging and recognizable music.

Decline and Acquisition

Muzak’s Struggles and Transformation

Despite maintaining a strong catalog, Muzak struggled to keep up with changing musical trends and consumer preferences. Multiple acquisitions ensued, with companies like Teleprompter and Westinghouse taking ownership before Muzak eventually merged with Yesco. By 2009, Muzak was acquired by Mood Media, which eventually retired the Muzak brand in 2011, rebranding it as Mood Music.

Chuck Bryan reflects on the brand's evolution:

“With this Quantum Leap thing that they had going on… they're making sure that there's nothing off while you're in that store.” [46:14]

Legacy and Modern Implications

Muzak’s Enduring Influence

Though the Muzak brand has been retired, its legacy persists in how businesses curate music to enhance customer experiences. Modern companies like Mood Media continue to implement strategies reminiscent of Muzak’s stimulus progression, using music to shape consumer behavior and brand identity.

Josh Clark emphasizes the continuity of Muzak’s principles:

“It's not necessarily to make you a docile shopper anymore… they're trying to make you feel like that brand is part of your identity by evoking memories in you.” [50:44]

Listener Insights and Conclusion

Encouraging Open-Mindedness Towards Muzak

The hosts conclude by encouraging listeners to explore Muzak’s music without preconceived notions. They recommend specific Muzak records and artists to broaden the understanding of Muzak’s musical quality and its role in shaping ambient music genres.

Josh Clark advises:

“Don't prejudge. How about that?” [54:00]

Overall, the episode provides an in-depth exploration of Muzak’s history, technological innovations, cultural impact, and its enduring legacy in the modern music and business landscape.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Josh Clark on George Square’s multiplexing:
  "He basically figured out a way to increase their output and efficiency by multiplexing..." [12:38]

• Chuck Bryan on Muzak's evolution:
  "With this Quantum Leap thing that they had going on… they're making sure that there's nothing off while you're in that store." [46:14]

• Josh Clark on Muzak’s technological innovations:
  "They launched their own satellite in the 70s. They had a computer database in the 70s..." [49:27]

• Josh Clark on Muzak’s enduring legacy:
  "It's not necessarily to make you a docile shopper anymore… they're trying to make you feel like that brand is part of your identity by evoking memories in you." [50:44]

• Josh Clark encouraging open-mindedness:
  "Don't prejudge. How about that?" [54:00]

Recommendations for Further Exploration

Listeners interested in Muzak can explore specific records mentioned in the episode:

• More Than Music, Period and Environment (1981): Features instrumental covers of popular songs like Christopher Cross's "Sailing."

• The Blue Album (1974): A complete stimulus progression album with tracks such as Orleans' "Dance with Me."

Additionally, Josh and Chuck recommend artists like Frank Sinatra, Joe Beam, Ronnie Aldrich, Frank Chacksfield, and Montovani for their contributions to the Muzak catalog.

---

Connect with the Hosts:

For more insights and episodes, visit iHeartRadio.

Transcript

[Josh Clark]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

With T Mobile. No Trendspotter has to deal with Trendspotty service because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Dave C. Kooston]

Hey everyone, I want to talk to you for a sec about Squarespace and specifically Squarespace Payments. If you're running a business and using Squarespace, you're doing the right thing because Squarespace Payments is the easiest way to manage your payments in one place. Onboarding is fast and simple. You can get started in just a few clicks and start receiving payments right away. Plus, you can give your customers more ways to pay with very popular payment methods like Klarna ACH direct debit in the US at Apple, Pay Afterpay in the US and Canada and Clearpay in the UK. Just go to squarespace.com stuff and you can get a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use our offer code stuff to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Josh Clark]

Hey there everybody.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

It's me, Josh. And for this week's Sysk Selects, I've chosen our 2021 episode on Muzak. And you might ask who could possibly like the noisome, omnipresent annoyance that was Muzak? Well, me.

[Josh Clark]

I like music. So there.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

But if you're not over 40, you might not even know that there was a time you couldn't step out in public from department stores those are in something we call malls, to elevators without schmaltzy string arrangements of pop music pummeling you with their saccharine sound. And you know what? You're the worse off for not having experienced it. Instead, you can experience this episode, and I hope you enjoy it.

[Dave C. Kooston]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a.

[Josh Clark]

Production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there, and there's Dave C. Kooston. I said it right this time.

I thought it was Coustin.

No, if you're in France, that's how you would say it. But here in the United States, you say Coustin.

Can I start this off by saying something?

Oh, boy. I'm worried about what you're going to say, but okay.

Well, this episode is on Muzak. And I started thinking last night. I was thinking about your love of muzak, which is not at all ironic.

Not in the least. But you can't say that kind of thing these days. People don't believe you.

I know. It's true, everyone. I know Josh very well and I was thinking of your. And I like all kinds of music too, but you know, in my heart I'm a rock and roll guy.

Sure.

And I was thinking about your top musical genres that are above rock and roll. And you're picking order, not in order. I counted easy listening, muzak, disco, art rock, Kraut rock, and I probably missed a couple.

Kraut rock is below rock and roll. I want to like Kraut rock. It just doesn't quite jive with me. I like some, but not all of it.

And then stuff. I think art rock is sort of that avant garde. Like, I don't. You don't love Yoko, but you certainly are a bit of a Yoko apologist.

Sure.

Grace Jones, stuff like that.

Oh, I love Grace Jones for sure. What about Talking Heads? They go in there too, right?

Oh, they'd probably be.

I mean, they literally went to art school together.

Yeah. I mean, they kind of span from art rock to new wave to like world music by the time they finished.

Yeah, yeah, I know, but.

Yeah, I mean, I certainly love the Talking Heads. But all of those for you are above good old fashioned rock and roll, I think.

Yeah. You also left out 90s techno. I've been listening to a lot of that lately too. Like alternating the Prodigy and everything.

But you love muzak. You really do. I do too, actually. I don't know.

I'm so glad.

I don't know how much I like. I will listen to some of that stuff and we'll talking about. We'll talk about Eno in here, of course, Old Sourpuss Brian Eno. But I love listening to his ambient stuff, which he sort of wrote as an antidote to Muzak. Again, we'll talk about that more later. But I do like, in certain circumstances that Muzak thing is really great to have on in my house as background music. And it serves that same purpose.

One of the big reasons why too is because you can get stuff done with it. Like lyrics can be so distracting. They just latch onto your brain and say, no, no, pay attention to me. I'm talking to you. Now, Muzak does the opposite of that. It says, go, be free, but also enjoy this. Like, there's. There's like, a whole part of your brain that Muzak can tap into that doesn't require your conscious thought, but it still produces, like, good feelings. And, you know, like, people. People just smack Muzak around. Like, it's just. It's so bland and it's so soulless. And I totally disagree with that. Like, if you actually stop and listen to music, it's really, really technically proficient. It's frequently well done. It's often very clever and creative and inventive and. Which is really saying something because you're doing this in the confines of covering an existing song in a way that makes it familiar and easy to recognize, but also takes away any intrusiveness that it might have. It's tough to do. And I really. I just. I love music. You're absolutely right. Like, I listened to Muzak this whole time, not just when we were researching Muzak today, but also when I was researching the Havana Syndrome. And I realized, like, this is my normal thing. This is the same stuff I listen to when I'm researching. Anyway.

Yeah. And we can go ahead and dispel a couple of or not myths, but clear up a couple of things right off the bat. First of all, Muzak is a name brand, and people can kind of collectively use the term Muzak or have collectively use that term for what's called, like, potted plant music or elevator music or shopping music. But it is actually a brand name, which we'll get to the history of. And then the second thing is it gets the name elevator music. Part of the myth is that people said, well, they put it on elevators because people were afraid to death of elevators early on, and it calmed people down, or it covered up the noise of the clanking elevators.

I'd never heard that before. Had you?

Yeah. Neither one of those things are true. Total myth. My guess is that it was played on elevators. And because you're in such a closed little box that's usually quiet, it just was way more noticeable than, like, in a big office full of people working. So people called it elevator music. That's my guess, right?

Yeah. I mean, yeah, there wasn't music on elevators before, but for several decades in the 20th century, like, there weren't many elevators you could get on because people didn't have elevators in their house. So it was a public building you were in where they weren't playing music of some form very frequently.

Muzak, that great Blues Brothers scene.

Yeah, yeah. Because they're going up to the Cook County Assessor's office and, like, there's the entire Chicago Police Department is after them, but they're forced to get on this elevator and the Girl from Ipanema is playing.

I think my favorite part of that scene is there's just dozens and hundreds of cops and SWAT guys just, you know, huh? Hut, hut, hut, hut. When they're rappelling and doing all this stuff. And then there's the one shot of the lonely guy rappelling down the side of a building, and he's by himself, just going, hut, hut, hut, hut.

Yeah, that's a good one.

So funny.

There's another scene too, from around that era a few years later from Airplane 2, where it's like, rip torn. I believe it's ripped Torn. The party from the Larry Sanders Show.

Yeah, yeah.

And I don't know the other guy he's talking to. But anyway, they're walking and talking and they have to get on an elevator. The elevator door opens and it's just blaring like eardrum shattering decibel MacArthur Park. And they have to get on. People are coming off the elevator, like, with their hands to their ears, like with splitting headaches from this. But it's just completely the opposite of what elevator music's supposed to be like. But it's a good little scene too, as far as elevator music goes.

Well, I mean, that's kind of one of the points too, is Muzak has long been a movie trope and a TV trope and then been lampooned in scenes just like the Blues Brothers scene, where there's something chaotic going on. And then you cut back to the sound of Muzak playing wherever the other scene is setting.

Right?

Yeah, Very, very fun stuff.

But that started, I guess it started with the Blues Brothers, which came out in 1980, but before that, that was like, Muzak was not really Lampoon. I mean, not everybody liked it. It really kind of started to get a little backlash in the late 60s, early 70s, as we'll see. But there was a very significant chunk of the 20th century again from maybe 1950 to 1980, we'll say where everywhere you went in public, including if you took a Greyhound bus or if you were on a plane or you happened to be in Air Force One, or you were at the mall in an elevator, at your office, everywhere Muzak was playing, there was Muzak playing everywhere. It was just a part of life that was inescapable, actually.

Yeah. So let's Go back in time and talk about the inventor of Muzak. And this is sort of a fun fact of Muzak. The man's name is George Square. It is spelled squire, but he swears it's pronounced Square.

I'm really impressed, man. I had not come up with that one.

Or he swore it was pronounced Square. Yeah, that's kind of one of the funny jokes. Like the guy who invented Muzaks was Square.

Yeah.

But Major General George Square was born in 1865, if you believe that. And he has just a laundry list of accomplishments as a human being. He earned a doctorate from Johns Hopkins in electrical science. He was an army Engineer with a PhD, I think the first one. And he was, I believe, the lead Signal Corps officer for the army as well.

He was. He also was inducted into the National Academy of Sciences. Which connects this episode to the other one today.

That's right.

Because he came up with something called a tree telephone. He figured out how to use any tree, but preferably one with fully leaved, I guess. I don't know what you'd call that as a receiver and transmitter for radio signals. He figured out how to use a tree, a living tree.

For that he was. Here's another little fun fact. He was one of the first airplane passengers ever, because he was way into human flight and got together with the Wright brothers and in 1906, consulted with them and they said, hey, why don't you take a ride in our new little biplane? You'll probably live.

Right. I looked at the document for our Wright brothers episode and he did not appear. I don't think we mentioned him, but he might have been the first airline passenger from what I saw.

Yeah. Where he really made a big name for himself. Pre Muzak was this invention, which is what we call multiplexing, which is he figured out, or maybe wire, wireless communications, which is something he worked on with the Army. He basically figured out how to get multiple uses out of single telephone lines. Telephone wires were, you know, there are only so many. So you were really limited as to what you could do with them and how many people could use them. So he basically figured out a way to increase their output and efficiency by multiplexing and by sending superimposing high frequency radio signals over those low frequency telegraph signals. Basically just allowing you to use the wire at the same time. The same wire?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like, if you think of like a wave, if it's low frequency, there's big, wide gaps in between. You can fit a higher frequency that's tighter and square together in those gaps, but you're still using the same line. And this was the guy who came up with that. That's an enormous advancement in telecommunications that we're still put in use today in some applications, but definitely helped the early Internet along. It was just a huge contribution to humanity. Forget even just Muzak. Just that alone would probably warrant an episode for George Square.

Yeah. And I think he was like, everyone should be able to use this. So I'm going to open source it, and everyone can use this new multiplexing technology. AT&T came along and said, we'll use it. And then, you know what? You stole it from us, actually.

Right. He came up with it, but since he left it open, they decided to just take it from him and sue him for it.

I think he sued them, but it didn't work.

That's right. You're right. So. But he still was able to use this wire wireless technology with multiplexing. And at the time, people were starting to get into radio broadcasts. But radio, wireless radio like that, you would just have in your house that's picking up radio waves at a station. That was not widespread at the time. So George Square said, you know what? I understand people want music in their house. I'm going to give it to him. I'm going to use that multiplexing technology, and I'm going to run sound waves over the electrical wires that go into the house. I'm going to sell this. It is brilliant. I'm going to sell this service to people's homes for $1.50 a month, about $20 today. And it's just part of your utility bill because it's coming in through your electrical company. And there's actually a section of Cleveland called the Lakewood, I believe Lakewood area that was the pilot for this wired wireless radio that George Square invented. The problem was, is by the time they deployed it, wireless radio was already a thing.

Yeah.

And so he had this really great idea that just no longer had an application.

Yeah. He basically invented the first music subscription service.

Exactly. Yeah. And he had multiple channels, too. Like, when you subscribed, you got news, you got dance music. There was like, I think, three different channels you could choose from.

Howard Stern.

Yep. Howard Stern was on back then, Baba Bowie.

So he had that technology, though, and he said, you know what? This is a good idea, though. Maybe I can think of how to use this in offices and stores. And in 1934, he looked up at Kodak, very successful corporation, and said, I love that name and I love music. Let's just call it Muzak and history changed and maybe we should take a break.

Okay, let's do it.

All right, we'll be right back.

[Dave C. Kooston]

Hey everyone. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you do. And that hiring partner is LinkedIn jobs.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

So when you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place.

[Dave C. Kooston]

That's right, those qualified candidates.

[Josh Clark]

You know, at the end of the.

[Dave C. Kooston]

Day, the most important thing to your small business is going to be the quality of those candidates. And with LinkedIn you can feel confident that you're going to be getting the best.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

Yeah. And actually, based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates.

[Dave C. Kooston]

Just post your job for [e-mail] sysk that's LinkedIn.com sysk and you can post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

[Unknown]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Annabe sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa from top to bottom. The stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699 and right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply with T Mobile.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

No trendspotter has to deal with Trendspotty service because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access and expires in six.

[Josh Clark]

So in the parlance of today, Chuck George Square and his Muzak Corporation pivoted from home consumer markets to business markets. And that just knocked it out of the park because it turned out that there were a lot of companies, hotels, restaurants, clubs. I think the Stork Club was an early customer that said, you know what, it's really going to make our place seem fancy if we've got music piping in all the time. So yes, we would like to sign up for your service. And that's really where Muzak kind of started to take off.

Yeah. So Muzak, I mean we haven't even said what it is, surely people know, but Muzak are instrumental tracks and you did mention that there were no vocals. So we kind of hinted at it.

That's a big one.

Yeah, but they're instrumental tracks that are cover songs of kind of anything you can think of. I mean I've heard some Muzak of some heavy rock. It can be classical music, it can be old standards. But the point is they are instrumental versions that are rerecorded. They don't just take the vocals out. It's not karaoke style.

Right.

It is re record arranged and recorded by professional, really good musicians. Orchestras sometimes. And that's what it is. And it's great the end.

And very frequently it's made into a much more mellow version of itself. Like any rough edges are taken off since they take the vocals out. It's not like that vocal melody is non existent any longer. They just replace it with something else. So if they're trying to go for something like a little more upbeat or up tempo, they'll replace the vocals with say like a saxophone. If they're trying to do something a little more mellow, they'll replace the vocals with a string section.

Yeah. Or a harp perhaps.

Yeah. That's one of the things that Muzak is very famous for is like what's called masses of strings, just strings upon strings. In fact, one of the early, I guess big name groups that produced Muzak was called 101 Strings. They probably were absolutely accurate in that. Like there's just a lot tons of strings everywhere. Violins, cellos, violas, every, every string instrument you can throw at it. They just layer upon layer in these songs. It's one of the hallmarks of Muzak.

Yeah. And there are many versions of Antonio Carlos Chauvim's Girl from Ipanema. But the Muzak version is one of the most popular, and that 101 strings version is the most ubiquitous from that lot. I do encourage people to go watch the YouTube, though, of Frank Sinatra and Joe Beam singing that song live on tv, because it's great in every way. They're just sitting next to each other, and the shot isn't wide at first, and they're just sort of singing back and forth to each other. And Frank's doing his thing, and it cuts to the wide, and Frank is, like, totally kicked back with his legs crossed with a cigarette in his hand. Exactly like you would hope. But he looks like. I mean, he looks like he just not rolled out of bed. Cause he's put together, but he looks like he rolled from his wicker bag to his wicker chair for this performance.

Can I get some cocaine in here, baby?

That's Joe Piscopo is Frank Sinatra.

Do you ever listen to Joe Beam's stuff?

Oh, yeah, dude. I love that old lounge stuff. It's really great Brazilian stuff.

Yeah. His record Stoneflower is just a masterpiece from beginning to end.

Yeah, that's good party music.

Yeah. That's another thing, though, too, is like, it's so mellow that to take that kind of music and then make it into Muzak is like. It's almost like. It takes a certain amount of audacity, you know, like I was listening to, I found. So there's. I want to point people to two different music records that are on YouTube. One is called More Than Music, Period and environment. It's a 1981 Muzak record, and it has a version of Sailing, Christopher Cross's Sailing, one of the most already.

Music to sleep, too.

Yeah, exactly. They. They figured out how to basically make you lose control of your bladder listening to this.

Wet your bed, too.

Yeah, that's a good one. And then the other one is called the Blue Album, and It is from 1974, I believe. And it's just. Both of them are really great. That's good. Good introductions to Muzak, if you're not into it already.

All right, so Muzak is trucking along in the 30s. They get to the 40s, and they think, you know what? We need a better way to sell this stuff and to pitch this to businesses and corporations. So why don't we hire some people to research music and to figure out what kinds of music keep people happy and working? Because people, you know, they work hard in the morning and then they sort of lag a bit before Lunch and then they really lag sort of a couple of hours after lunch. So why don't we do this? Why don't we study it? Let's call it stimulus progression. It's a bit pseudoscience. It makes sense. It is in that it's not been proven. It makes sense to everyone who I feel like knows about it. Like, sure, music can pick you up and make you work harder, but it's pseudoscience in that I don't think it's ever been scientifically proven.

I gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Because I keep seeing it just like dismissed as pseudoscience. But then there were plenty of early studies that were done by legitimate industrial psychologists and other like efficiency experts, that kind of thing that showed that there, there really was a significant like improvement in productivity or less sick days, that kind of stuff in places that have Muzak compared to places that didn't have Muzak pumped into the office.

Yeah. I think maybe their specific claims about a workday.

Okay.

Might have been a little. I mean, everywhere I read said it was basically not a marketing scam, but a marketing tool that they kind of invented.

I gotcha. So one thing to say about this, we're going to talk about it in a second. Stimulus progression is that they did kind of plow money that they were making. They were making a lot of money starting in the late 40s, early 50s. They plowed it back into research to basically come up with scientific evidence to back up their claims. Which you can really kind of see the ghost of George Square still looming over the company. You know, this decade or so after he died. It's always been this kind of science interested, if not science based company that's also been an early adopter of technology, as we'll see.

Yeah, I mean that is certainly fair. It was never just like, hey, we're just going to play a bunch of what people might consider droll background music. Like they really did. I don't think it was a scam. I think they really did try to study working environments. And what they did with his stimulus progression was they divided the workday into 15 minute increments and basically set a DJ playlist every 15 minutes. And they assigned a stimulus value from one to six. One being really, really mellow, six being super up. And they basically went through and almost like a Pandora sort of curated playlist type of thing to get people to work hard and efficiently throughout a day. And companies bought in, including the U.S. army.

Yeah, I think World War II is basically cited as the moment when Muzak Kind of proved itself enough at least to start being adopted by very large companies. And then within a few years after the war, by like the very early 50s, they started to spread more and more to even smaller and smaller companies. And it was this idea that if you played Muzak and Muzak's, you know, patented stimulus progression model, you know, you're going to avoid that mid morning slump that like every worker goes through, you know, in productivity. And then the mid afternoon slump, you could avoid that too. And think about how many more widgets you could make if your employees don't, you know, slack off, productivity wise at 10:30, from 10:30 to lunch and then from like 2:30 until they go home. Like, imagine if this very pleasant music is just kind of keeping them humming along, what people call a forward, just unconscious sense of forward momentum. The tempo in your environment is moving subtly faster and faster. And so to keep people from going insane, part of the stimulus progression was that the songs in a 15 minute increment would kind of go up in tempo and then you'd have a 15 minute break of silence and then the music would come back on again. But then this 15 minutes, their, their first song, the tempo of their first song would probably start a little faster than the tempo of the first song of the last 15 minutes.

Right.

And so all of a sudden, next thing you know, you're making widgets like a maniac because you're being manipulated by the stimulus progression model, at least again, according to Muzak. I, I get what you're saying. Like, it's not like, you know, Harvard came along and said, yes, we've studied this thoroughly and this is exactly what happens. This is, you know, company claims, but it is intuitively sensible at least.

Well, yeah. I mean, you need only to host a house party and play music yourself to determine how music can affect the mood of a group of people. Groove is in the heart. And you know it's going to happen.

Yeah, everybody's going to shake their groove thing.

Everyone's going to shape their group thing. Shake their groove thing. If you put in Old Sour plus Brian Eno's music for airports. Not a good party thing.

No, it's not. And since you brought him up for the second time, I say we discussed Brian Eno momentarily.

Sure. I mean, I love that record and I love a lot of his stuff, including his ambient music, experimental records. I think it's really, really good stuff to have on if it's a nice gray day outside and you're getting work done. I really enjoyed his Background music, but it's definitely not up in any way.

You know, what I found is a really good one for what you just described. You ever listen to Future Sound of London?

No.

They have an album, like a double album called Lifeforms and it's about as amazing as ambient gets. So you should check that one out.

Emily got me into ambient. I call her Emily when she's listening to that stuff. She really got me. She called it ambient groove. She really got me into that stuff over the years.

Is that like.

Like 07 and, you know, stuff that's. She calls it ambient groovy. Just sort of. Sort of mellow and groovy and like 07 and morchiba and. It was a certain era, I think, where that stuff peaked. Massive Attack a little bit.

Oh, yeah, it's good stuff. Yeah. I think you'd like Life Forms then. Future Silent London stuff is normally a little more, you know, super cerebral and intelligent, but it's also fairly dancy. Life Forms is way. It's probably their most ambient stuff around.

So Eno, though, let's get back to him. He kind of came up with this as an antidote to Muzak, right?

Yes. If you like ambient music, you better thank your lucky stars for Muzak, because were it not for Muzak, you might not have ambient music, at least not now. Maybe It'd be coming 50 years from now. Who knows?

Yeah, he said. I love that in this article it says, as reported by Red Bull Music, Eno said this, and this was, I think, for the liner notes actually, to Airport or Music for Airports. Whereas Cannes music's intention is to brighten the environment by adding stimulus to it. Ambient music is intended to induce calm and a space to think. Ambient music must be able to accommodate many levels of listening attention without enforcing one in particular. It must be as ignorable as it is interesting.

So he hits on something, though, that people would come to really resent about Muzak is not even just necessarily the syrupiness of the music itself, but the intent behind the music. That it was always intended to basically manipulate your mood into making you a better worker, a more docile consumer. That it was poking at your brain to get you to do things that you may or may not want to do. Maybe you will be less likely to punch some guy on the bus because there's Muzak playing, which is a good thing. We should not be punching other people on the bus. But the point is, you're being mind controlled in a certain way. And eventually people got kind of resentful of that.

Yeah, no, that's true.

We're not there yet, though. We're not there yet, though. There was actually a point in time, though, Chuck, where Muzak and popular music were basically one in the same.

Yeah, that was sort of. I mean, one of the heydays of Muzak certainly was in that when, you know, when the Glenn Miller Orchestra was pop music on the radio, Muzak wasn't a far stretch from some of that stuff. So it was sort of all one and the same. I think it was as styles changed and the 60s and 70s start rolling along, that Muzak became really sort of a bad word to a lot of people.

Right. And one of the reasons I saw that really explained it to me because, you know, things change as society just changed between the 1950s and the 1960s. It just abruptly changed. But that doesn't fully explain why Muzak just was suddenly looked down upon. A good explanation I saw is that lyrics became really, really important in the late 60s. People had something to say. And Muzak does not include lyrics. It completely undermines the point of Muzak if you put lyrics in or don't, you know, don't rearrange the lyrics with strings. So Muzak kind of couldn't keep up with that. It's not like it went away, it doubled down. It kept doing what it was doing. And in fact, it would take some of those pop hits that had really monumentally important lyrics and just take the lyrics out and replace it with a saxophone or something like that.

Yeah, they didn't do that. I think it's interesting. They could have had a really mellow singer at a certain point come in. And I really respect the fact that they were like, nope, the singer has a violin and I don't want to hear it anymore.

Right. But a lot of these songwriters in particular, like, I think Joan Baez, Bruce Springsteen, Boz Skaggs, all of them refused to let their. Their music be covered by Muzak or any of its competitors. But Paul Simon, I saw, said he always knew he had a hit when he heard a Muzak version of it, like at the Mall or something like that, which is kind of like Weird Al covering Nirvana. Like, Kurt Cobain said that he knew that Nirvana had made it. When Weird Al covered Smells Like Teen Spirit. I think it's basically the same thing.

Oh, I think most musicians, unless you're a Ted Nugent who. And we'll get to that. But very famously sort of offered to buy Muzak when they fell upon hard times so he could basically burn it to the Ground. I think most musicians deep down think it's kind of an honor when one of their songs is muzakified.

It's got. Yeah, you'd have to.

It's gotta be cool, right?

I just wanna find out what somebody's gonna do with it. Cause like I was saying at the beginning, like it really takes some creativity to come up with, okay, what can I replace this with? That's not just completely predictable or boring, but also isn't going to grab everybody's attention because that's again not the point of Muzak. It's one of the. I don't know if it was a slogan of the Muzak Corporation or not, but they basically said that they fill in the awkward pauses in life to where. Yeah, you don't like. It's like you were saying at the party. If you're at a party that doesn't have any music on, you just probably just get smashed out of your skull because you're just trying to lubricate the social situation so much. Whereas if you put on music, it's like it takes a lot of that edge off. That was one of the points too with Muzak. And then also to kind of get you to linger a little longer when you were shopping in a store. That was part of it as well.

Yeah, I mean music, we almost always have music on in our house. Unless you know, it's night and we're watching a movie or watching something on tv, but at almost all waking hours we have music playing in our home and it just feels weird and quiet and not full of life when there's no music happening.

Right.

It's strange.

It can be strange for sure.

Should we take a break?

Yeah, we're, we're, we have reached basically the early 70s, which is Muzak's first crisis point. And we'll come back to that after this.

[Unknown]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Annabe sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa. From top to bottom, the stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699 and right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply with T Mobile.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

No trendspotter has to deal with Trendspotty service because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualified unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days device knowledgeable carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access. It expires in six months.

[Dave C. Kooston]

Hey everybody, here's an interesting fact. The most common disease in the world is cavities. It's also one of the most preventable, which brings us to the Colgate Total Active Prevention System because it attacks the root cause of oral health problems like cavities and gingivitis.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, spoiler alert. It's bacteria.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

The system is 15 times more effective at fighting bacteria. It reduces bacteria buildup in six weeks starting in week one. Compared to a non stainless fluoride toothpaste and flat trimmed toothbrush when used together.

[Dave C. Kooston]

It's some cool science too. The unique technology in the toothpaste was recognized with the Edison Patton Award, which honors outstanding research and innovation.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

But this is about more than impressive awards and healthy smiles. Oral diseases can increase the risk of other health conditions such as respiratory disease, diabetes and cardiac conditions. With the Colgate Total Active Prevention System, you can help prevent problems like cavities and gingivitis before they start, which may make a positive impact on general health conditions.

[Dave C. Kooston]

Dentist ready Shop the Colgate Total Active Prevention system by visiting shop.colgate.com Totally.

[Josh Clark]

All right, so I'm born in 1971 and Muzak starts to die a little bit.

A little bit as a real rock.

And roller came into the world.

That's right. Born with a jean jacket with the Van Halen logo on marker in the back.

It did not go away completely though. It was just sort of, I guess, the beginning of the end. But that didn't mean there wasn't still a business model for Muzak, because Muzak was never about its popularity.

No, but there was a time where it was popular. Like JFK had it on Air Force One, Eisenhower had it piped into The White House. It was playing on board Apollo 11.

Yeah.

Like, it was a. Like it was everywhere. Like, it's really hard to get across how ubiquitous it was. But I found a quote from a guy named Professor Gary Gumpert of Queens College in New York. He said that at the time, Muzak was just kind of amniotic fluid that surrounds us. It never startles us. It is never too loud. It's never too silent. It's always there. And that was what it was like. You were just kind of moving from one placid bucolic field to the next, going from mall to mall, store to store, elevator to elevator, bus ride to bus ride. It was just absolutely everywhere. So compared to that, the idea that it's absolutely everywhere, unquestioned. Yeah, it really kind of started to take a bit of a downturn in the 70s, but it just didn't go anywhere yet. It took decades for it to really take a hit.

Yeah. I mean, Even in the 80s that was syndicated in 19 countries, there were 80 million people listening, whether or not they wanted to or not, listening to Muzak every day. And the company ended up being bought and sold a couple of times over the years. I think in 81 or in 72, a company called Teleprompter owned it. In 81, Westinghouse bought it. And I don't know if I believe this. The story goes that Westinghouse learned later on when they were buying teleprompter, that they owned Muzak. And apparently they didn't know that.

That's what fundinguniverse.com says.

I don't know. I mean, who doesn't? Maybe back then they didn't do research into purchasing entire corporations.

They were on a lot of scotch at the time, man.

Although we've had companies that bought websites. And then they learned there was a podcast program attached.

I think I've heard of that. Things you should do or something like that.

Yeah, that was actually that. That could happen, now that I think about it.

That's right. Yeah. I kind of actually felt a deeper affinity for Muzak when I learned how many times they've been passed around corporation by corporation.

And then I think in the. I think it was. When did Yesco come along? Was that the 90s?

So Yesko was around from the mid-80s.

Well, when they finally came together, though, right?

Yeah. But they were an early competitor, I guess, a kind of a midlife competitor to Muzak. But by the 80s, Jesko had established a name for itself by doing basically the opposite of what Muzak did. Rather than making, you know, covers of canned music without lyrics, they would just go get the licenses of, like, the hot new song of the. Of the moment and play those. And so rather than background music, which is what Muzak's whole jam was, these guys were pioneering foreground music. And they were just this small little outfit from Seattle that, you know, it was kind of like the little engine that could. And they changed the entire landscape, the audio landscape of the United States, just by being persistent, by getting that. That. That word out that, hey, now, foreground's the way to go, not background. That's old stuff.

Yeah. And I think that's why today, when you go into Publix to do your grocery shopping, you'll hear Christopher Cross singing Sailing instead of the muzak version of Sailing.

Yeah. Can't we just get both, though?

Sure.

Do we have to choose?

I mean, I'm a big Christopher Cross fan. You're not gonna find a bigger fan than me.

For real. You like him that much?

He's great. I got his two big albums I still have on my shelf.

Oh, yeah. Well, he's sitting in the other room at my house right now.

I guess. You're the bigger fan.

Yeah.

You're like, no, no, no. He's just tied up.

Right. I was gonna say he's not here on his will. Under his own will, in fact. You could make a pretty strong case he's here against his will. But.

So in 1984, though, is when Yesco got officially involved with Muzak. I think Muzak was. Did they actually file for bankruptcy, or were they just at that sort of precipice?

Not yet. They were teetering right there on the edge. And it was actually. They were bought by the Fields Company, the company that owns Marshall Fields. So Chicago makes appearance. And the Fields company said, we like where this Yesco group is going. We're going to merge with them. So Muzak actually merged with Yesco, the smaller company, but then ended up moving to Seattle right before the grunge movement hit. So Seattle's big musical contribution before grunge was Muzak, basically.

I remember seeing the. I remember seeing that logo. I mean, you'd probably seen the vans around before and really not known. It's that M with the circle around it.

Right.

I remember when I first saw that, I was like, wait a minute, is that the Muzak?

That's. Yeah. And that was a big update. They apparently went with some design group, I can't remember the name of it, that just completely reinvented the brand. Because they went from being in the background to manipulating your mood using stimulus progression to this other thing, this new made up sounding thing called. What's it called? Quantum physics.

Mechanics, Suicide.

Keep guessing. What else?

Realm Leap. Nope, those are all the quantums.

I know there's got to be another one, Chuck, because I'm still looking.

I'm so sorry.

What is that thing called?

It's Quantum Leap.

We'll just call it Quantum Leap. Sure.

Okay.

So with this Quantum Leap thing that they had going on.

The Bacula Effect.

Quantum modulation.

The Bacula Effect.

Quantum modulation. Okay.

Oh, okay.

I like Bacula Effect. That's a great one. With quantum modulation. It was. We are evoking an emotion that is now tied forever to the brand that you're shopping, whose store you're shopping in.

Right? Yeah, yeah, sure.

So like this, this one. So they hire people who make playlists, who curate these playlists that are start to finish. They all share this one theme. They all kind of have this one, like cool, not scary, super hip, beachy, you know, spring break 2008 kind of thing. Whatever.

The best.

So that like a company will, will say, this is, this is what our brand is all about. Give us playlists that fit this. And so now you're, you're kind of like, you, you feel cool because of the music of where you're shopping. And so that makes you want to shop and associate yourself with that place even more. That's what Muzak, that's what the, what's called Neo Muzak is, is all about. That's. That's the current state of affairs in the industry.

Yeah. Like if you want to use Armani Exchange as an example, what they'll do is they will literally try and make like a DJ mix that has beat matches and it doesn't break the momentums and it's all crossfaded. Whereas if Ann Taylor calls them up, they don't want to crossfade. They want Celine Dion songs and then a little bit of a small break and then a Sting song coming on and these gentle fades in and fades out. And you know, it's the same sort of stuff. It's just curated foreground music.

Right.

What I love about Muzak is in the end, when they were finally acquired, they had 1.5 million commercially recorded songs in their catalog. And they called that the.

Well, right.

That's amazing. Almost 800 Beatles songs.

It is. I think that's why they never fully went unders. That catalog kept them commercially viable for sale.

Super valuable. It's got to be.

Yeah. So they were bought and I think 2009 maybe by a group called Mood Music 2011. And then two years later, they retired the Muzak name forever. Just couldn't do anything with it. So now it's Mood Music is the company that owns the. Well, but they're doing that whole four. Okay. They're doing that whole foreground music quantum modulation type thing where, you know, you just associate a brand with a certain kind of music. Like you wouldn't walk into that Armani exchange and hear, you know, Paul Simon. Yeah. Christopher Cross. You'd be like, something's off here. The Mood. Mood. What is it? Mood Media. Their. Their job is to make sure that there's nothing off while you're in that store, that it all just kind of fits together and you feel good about where you're shopping.

I don't know though, man. You want to. You want to move some Armani gear, put on. You can call me Al. Just watch it fly off the street, man.

Those kids would freak out. Their frosted tips would stand up on end.

They're like, what is this? This is amazing.

I've never felt more alive.

Why is Chevy Jason here?

Oh, man.

A really cool thing though is what you were talking about with Muzak being on the tech forefront. It's really cool that over the years they were always early adopters of tech and it's funny to think about them that way, but they were always on the leading edge and the forefront of what technology was doing.

Yeah. So I don't know if they invented them, but they certainly were early adopters, if not pioneer in vinyl records. People were not using vinyl at the time. Then they eventually ditched the vinyl records in favor of an electronic brain called Mater m, the number 8 and the letter R, which basically was a big deck of reel to reel tapes that had a bunch of different songs on it, but they had different inaudible pulses that would trigger a different one to come on next. So you could curate lists on these huge reel to reels. It was just amazing. They were using this thing starting in the 50s, so the whole thing became kind of automated. They launched their own satellite in the 70s. They had a computer database in the 70s. Like they were very much pioneers and early adopters of a lot of different technology that we take for granted today.

Yeah, I mean, you could make an argument that they were doing the Pandora Spotify thing decades before they were doing it.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean the whole point of it too is virtually unchanged. I mean, it's not necessarily to make you a docile shopper anymore. To, like, they're trying to make you feel like that brand is part of your identity by evoking memories in you, using songs to unlock them.

Totally.

Pretty interesting stuff, man.

I'm gonna go, what were those two records again? I want to write those down.

Okay. One is more than music, period and environment. 1981 Muzak Record that has not just sailing on. It has Olivia Newton John's magic, has take your time, do it right, which I don't care if the lyrics are there or not. If you're sitting next to your mom in a doctor's office and baby, you can do it, take your time, do it right comes on. You both know what that song's about. You know, it may even be more uncomfortable in that situation. And then it ends with Funky Town.

Nice.

It's a good one. The other one is called the Blue Album. It's a complete stimulus progression album, and it has a bunch of good songs on it, including Orleans Dance with Me, which is, if you ask me, the Muzak covers way better than the original.

So not to be confused with Weezer's Blue Album.

No, it's a little different. And then if you're like, oh, this museque's floating my boat. Go start looking up Ronnie Aldrich, Frank Checksfield, Montovani, and just start there.

Yeah. And if eventually you're like, I'm feeling really goosey. How about some actual vocalists going on? And then you'll just go right into Josh's other favorite, which is yacht rock. Easy listening.

I like yacht rock a lot, too. I'm super right now into west coast cool jazz. Stan Getz, Chet Baker. Oh, I can't remember. I can't remember his name, but I just got into him. He's a great jazz pianist from that era. Bill Evans. The Bill Evans Trio.

Oh, love Bill Evans. You're just getting into Bill Evans.

Yeah, I just. Just started getting into. I started with Chet Baker and just started working my way out.

Vince Guaraldi is another great one. I know he's known for the Charlie Brown stuff, but all of Vince Guaraldi is great.

Yeah, he is. You can tell just by the Charlie Brown album that he's an amazing jazz guy.

Good stuff.

So. Oh, Chuck, I have one more thing. There's an. You know, people hate Muzak a lot, so there's some artists who have, like, tried to. A lot of artists have tried to make hay out of the whole thing, but one guy, David Schaefer, had something from back in 2000 or 2002, something he had X10R1 and X10R2. These two CDs that he released, they were basically his these weird, unnerving remixes of Muzak that just turns the whole thing on its head. So much so that like, you may laugh out loud when you first hear them. And I believe they're on his website, but it's like a. It's like Muzak, but what you would hear in your nightmares.

Okay.

It's really good. And I believe he's got it on his website to go listen to. And I think you can buy the CD these two. So check that out.

I'll check it out.

Okay, well, if you want to know more about Muzak, just start listening and loving. Just. Just don't prejudge. How about that? And since I said don't prejudge everybody, that means it's time for listener mail.

I'm gonna call this from Lauren. Hey guys. A man walks down the street and says, why am I soft in the middle? The rest of my life is so hard. Oh, wait a minute. Sorry.

What a perfect email for this one.

I was reading my forearm tattoo by accident. Hey guys. Been listening to Stuff youf Should Know for a few years. I often turn up the volume and play an episode while I cook dinner. My 7 year old daughter Lila used to complain, uh, you're listening to this again. But I recently caught her singing the Beat to the intro music. And she'll casually mention things she's heard from time to time. I suspect she's fond of the animal episodes. Anyway, you'll jokingly sometimes say, jerry, well, you have to edit that. You're gonna have to edit that part out. And it has me curious how often things are cut from an episode and why. Bad jokes. Too long. Have you ever had to completely redo one? I think it'd be really interesting to know. And I bet Lila would find it encouraging since she likes to make videos of herself singing and dancing. For the record, y'all make it effortless and seem effortless. And it's always a joy to listen to that. That is Lauren from Montevallo, Alabama. And she says yes.

I bet that's not how you say that.

Montevallo. Yeah, you're probably right.

You put a little too much mustard on there.

She says, P.S. how cool of a mom would I be if my daughter heard our names on the podcast?

Yeah, cool mom.

So there you go, Lauren and Lila. The answer is very little gets edited out.

Just the singing and dancing.

Like that siren in the background.

We'll probably. Probably just leave that in to prove a point.

Just leave that in? No, we don't edit a lot out. Occasionally, like we found out, and we said this before, early on, we left in the word stumbles and the ums and the uhs, and just because it's a conversation and we didn't want to make it seem too scripted because it's not, or canned because it's not. And so we just left that stuff in there. And the only time like. Like, I think today you had to look something up real quick, but that didn't happen much.

Yeah, I had to poke my head out of the studio and look at my record collection to come up with Bill Evans name.

So, I mean, that's gone now, but very little is edited out, especially after this many years. We're not one take wonders, but it's. Jerry doesn't have the hardest job in the world.

You know, we've taken it easy on her for years.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's about it, Chuck. I can't think of anything else we really added out.

But that's not to say that that shows that are heavily edited and very kind of scripty and slick, like, there's room for those, too.

Oh, yeah.

We're not the only way to do it.

No, we're like the muzak of podcasts. There's other people who are all like the Ted Nugent of podcasts, and there's room for both.

Yeah, like Roman Mars, the Ted Nugent of podcasting.

That's right. Man, that guy's always wearing, like, a studded leather wristband and stuff.

I keep waiting on Roman to text me and being like, you guys are consistently talking smack about me.

He doesn't. He doesn't listen. And no one he knows listens.

Listens.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryan]

Oh, that's impossible.

[Josh Clark]

So who is that? Lila and Lauren.

Correct.

Nice. Well, thank you very much for writing in. Hope we answered your question. And if you want to get in touch with us like Lila and Lauren did, you can send us an email. Send it off to Stuff podcast@iheartrading radio.com.

[Dave C. Kooston]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

[Josh Clark]

You listen to your favorite shows.

[Dave C. Kooston]

Some matches are temporary, but your privacy shouldn't be. With line two, you get a second phone line just for dating. No need to share your personal number until you're ready. You can chat, text, and even block numbers, all while keeping things fun and private. It's perfect for online dating, blind dates, or just keeping things light when you're ready to move on, Line two lets you cut ties without any drama. Dating should be fun and carefree. Line two keeps it that way. Ready to date on Your terms? Visit line2.comaudio or download line2 in the app Store today.