Selects: Seven - No, Wait, Five - Mysteries of the Art World

Summary

Stuff You Should Know: Mysteries of the Art World – Episode Summary

Release Date: March 22, 2025
Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

In this captivating episode of Stuff You Should Know, hosts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve into the enigmatic and intriguing world of art mysteries. From the tumultuous lives of renowned artists to the disappearance of priceless masterpieces, Josh and Chuck uncover the lesser-known stories that shroud some of the most celebrated works of art in history.

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1. Introduction to Art Mysteries

Josh opens the discussion by sharing his enthusiasm for art history, highlighting that this episode stands out as one of their best explorations into the subject. The hosts express their genuine interest and excitement, setting the stage for a deep dive into the perplexing aspects of the art world.

Josh Clark [02:03]: "As far as a Caravaggio goes, especially toward the end of his life, it's actually fairly tame because there's not, you know, like jets of blood spurting out."

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2. Caravaggio: The Troubled Genius

The episode begins with a detailed look at Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio, an Italian Baroque painter known for his dramatic use of light and shadow (chiaroscuro) and his tumultuous personal life.

Key Points:

• Violent Life: Caravaggio was notorious for his violent behavior, including murder. In 1606, he killed Ranuccio Tomassani, leading him to flee Rome and seek refuge in Malta.

• The Beheading of John the Baptist: While in Malta, Caravaggio painted "The Beheading of John the Baptist," an altar piece for the Knights of Malta. This work is notable for being the only piece he ever signed, adding to its mystique.

• Signature Mystery: The signature on the painting reads "F. Michelangelo," sparking theories about its meaning. Some believe "F" stands for "frater" (brother), aligning with his knighthood, while others think it signifies "fecit" (Latin for "made it") as a possible confession.

• Death and Legacy: Caravaggio's life was cut short due to infections from his injuries and possible lead poisoning. Despite his chaotic life, his artwork remains influential, showcasing his unparalleled mastery of light and emotion.

Chuck Bryant [06:48]: "The beheading of John the Baptist... It was actually his little entry fee."

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3. Johannes Vermeer and the Girl with a Pearl Earring

Next, Josh and Chuck explore the enduring mystery surrounding Johannes Vermeer’s masterpiece, "Girl with a Pearl Earring."

Key Points:

• Identity of the Model: The true identity of the girl in the painting remains unknown. Theories range from a family member, like his daughter Maria, to a fictional "tronie," an idealized figure used to showcase costumes and jewelry.

• Artistic Technique: Vermeer’s use of light is unparalleled. The pearl earring itself, created with just two brushstrokes, reflects light in a way that makes the eyes of the subject appear to follow the viewer.

• Cultural Impact: The painting gained widespread fame in the 20th century, especially after the publication of Tracy Chevalier’s novel and the subsequent film adaptation starring Scarlett Johansson.

• Mystery’s Appeal: The ambiguity of the subject’s identity adds to the painting’s allure, making it a perpetual subject of fascination and study.

Josh Clark [18:32]: "The pearl itself is like a cultural icon, too. And it's basically just two brush strokes, which is kind of goes to show how great Vermeer was."

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4. Raphael’s Missing Masterpiece: Portrait of a Young Man

The conversation shifts to Raphael, focusing on the mysterious disappearance of his "Portrait of a Young Man" during World War II.

Key Points:

• The Heist: The painting was part of the Prince Zartarsky Museum’s collection in Poland and was stolen by the Nazis during their plundering efforts.

• Disappearance: While two other paintings from the collection were recovered post-war, Raphael’s masterpiece remains missing. Its last known whereabouts were in Hans Frank’s possession, and its fate remains uncertain.

• Speculations: There are theories that the painting was destroyed in a Nazi sabotage operation or hidden away by a private collector. Despite extensive searches, the "Portrait of a Young Man" has never been found.

• Cultural Significance: Considered one of the most important missing artworks from WWII, its absence is a significant loss to art history.

Chuck Bryant [24:31]: "It was one of the great episodes, I think... one of the great mysteries of a disappeared painting."

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5. Adolf Hitler’s Foray into Art and Its Legacy

Josh and Chuck take a controversial turn by examining Adolf Hitler’s involvement in the art world.

Key Points:

• Rejected Artist: Before rising to power, Hitler aspired to be an artist and unsuccessfully applied to the Vienna Academy of Arts twice. His works were considered mediocre and primarily consisted of postcards and cityscapes.

• Art Plundering: During his rule, Hitler orchestrated massive art thefts, seizing over 800 artworks from occupied territories. His efforts were both a means of enrichment and a way to promote his aesthetic ideals.

• Fakes and Forgeries: Hitler’s lack of a distinctive artistic style has led to a proliferation of forgeries in the market. Authenticating his works is challenging, making it easier for counterfeiters to exploit the demand.

• Destruction of His Art: Officially, Hitler had his personal artworks destroyed, but some pieces survived and now fetch significant sums at auctions, despite their lack of artistic merit.

Josh Clark [50:22]: "That's the mystery of the Hitler paintings. Did he do those paintings?"

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6. Listener Mail: Middle Names Mystery

Towards the end of the episode, Josh and Chuck engage with listener mail, sharing a heartfelt message from Amy (Helen) in the UK. Amy discusses the unique experience of using her middle name over her first name, highlighting personal anecdotes related to identity and recognition.

Amy (Listener) [51:19]: "Everyone in my family uses their middle names. So I've always been called Amy ever since I was born. But my first name is Helen."

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7. Upcoming Topics and Closing Remarks

Josh and Chuck tease future episodes, including an extensive episode on the Gardner Museum heist, promising listeners more enthralling art mysteries to come. They also briefly mention an immersive Van Gogh exhibition in Atlanta, reflecting their ongoing passion for art exploration.

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Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• Josh Clark [02:03]: "As far as a Caravaggio goes, especially toward the end of his life, it's actually fairly tame because there's not, you know, like jets of blood spurting out."

• Chuck Bryant [06:48]: "The beheading of John the Baptist... It was actually his little entry fee."

• Josh Clark [18:32]: "The pearl itself is like a cultural icon, too. And it's basically just two brush strokes, which is kind of goes to show how great Vermeer was."

• Chuck Bryant [24:31]: "It was one of the great episodes, I think... one of the great mysteries of a disappeared painting."

• Josh Clark [50:22]: "That's the mystery of the Hitler paintings. Did he do those paintings?"

• Amy (Listener) [51:19]: "Everyone in my family uses their middle names. So I've always been called Amy ever since I was born. But my first name is Helen."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Stuff You Should Know masterfully intertwines art history with mystery, offering listeners a deep and engaging exploration of some of the art world’s most perplexing tales. Through lively discussions and insightful analysis, Josh and Chuck shed light on the shadowy corners of art history, making complex topics accessible and intriguing for all audiences.

For those fascinated by the intersection of art and mystery, this episode is a must-listen, providing a blend of historical facts, theories, and the enduring allure of unsolved artistic enigmas.

Transcript

[Chuck Bryant]

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[Josh Clark]

Asking the right questions can greatly impact your future, especially when it comes to your finances. So if you're looking for a financial advisor you can trust, certified financial planner professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. That's why it's gotta be a CFP. Find your CFP [e-mail] Hey everybody, it's me, Josh. And for this week's Select, I've chosen our episode on art Mysteries. It's a great one. Chuck and I are secretly jazzed by art history, it turns out. And this episode is the best of any we've done on the subject. May also be the only one. At any rate, it's a good episode and I think you'll enjoy it. So enjoy.

[Chuck Bryant]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck, Brian over there, and Jerry's here somewhere. So this is stuff you should know. The Art world edition. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know what I just realized? We. We record these in twos and we just recorded the Pogs episode.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

And you didn't say welcome to the pogcast.

[Josh Clark]

I didn't, did I?

[Chuck Bryant]

What a missed opportunity for a great dad joke.

[Josh Clark]

That sounds like something I would skip, though. Even had I thought of it, I don't know that I would have pulled the trigger on that, I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or I could see you pulling the trigger and then making fun of yourself.

[Josh Clark]

Right. I would have just been engaged in self loathing for the rest of the podcast.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, retroactively, I'm going to say. I hope everyone enjoyed the podcast. Now let's talk about art mysteries.

[Josh Clark]

I love this one. Man, this is great. This reminds me, like, of a Stuff youf Should Know episode from years back for some reason.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, it's because we don't do these top lists anymore.

[Josh Clark]

That's part of it.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know, very famously. We used to have top tens on our old House Stuff Works website. Of which usually there were maybe seven decent entries. So we never did. I don't think we ever did a full 10 on anything. Maybe somebody could probably correct us. But this one actually came in at seven.

[Josh Clark]

They didn't even try.

[Chuck Bryant]

And I don't even know. We may do like five of these. We haven't even figured it out yet.

[Josh Clark]

We'll see. We're gonna play it fast and loose. I think that's another reason why it reminds me of an old Stuff youf Should Know episode.

[Chuck Bryant]

Fast and Loose.

[Josh Clark]

Like I was. Yeah, Fast and Loose. First you got the fast, then you got the Loose.

[Chuck Bryant]

But never Furious, because who wants to be mad?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know.

[Chuck Bryant]

They should have called that series Fast and Loose. Tokyo Drift.

[Josh Clark]

I think I've heard it before that that series is the highest grossing movie franchise in the history of film, like worldwide.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Do you know what's funny is at one point we were. This is years ago, we were talking with Ludacris about doing something with the network. And I. Cause he's a local guy here in Atlanta. And I talked to our boss and said, what's he doing these days? Like, I haven't heard any music. And he went, he makes Fast and Furious movies. Like that's his job now.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Because he's just getting rich off of making these movies.

[Josh Clark]

Like I can't even imagine. And plus also, I mean, they're pretty. It's pretty involved moviemaking. I would guess, like, I'm sure because there's so many stars involved that, you know, the shooting schedule for each one isn't necessarily, you know, a year long endeavor or anything like that. They probably have it down to like a pretty fast science by now. But like, I would think that would eat up a pretty decent amount of your time shooting one of those films every few, you know, a couple times a. Well, I guess every few years.

[Chuck Bryant]

I only saw one of those, I.

[Josh Clark]

Think, man, I'm slowly like degenerating into Bob Newhart, man. Have you noticed?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man. Good.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. You could degenerate into worse things than that. But I mean, like, I'm really. I'm really hitting that Newhart note these days. I've noticed.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's a great note. I love it. I've always wanted Bob Newhart as my podcasting partner, so.

[Josh Clark]

Well, you. You' There you go. You've got it, buddy.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right. Number one on the list. You want to talk a little Caravaggio?

[Josh Clark]

So Caravaggio is my new favorite painter.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Not just because he was a scummy low life swordsman.

[Chuck Bryant]

Murderer.

[Josh Clark]

From the murderer. Yeah, he was a gambler. He had weapons charges against him while he was alive. He. He was not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination. Very troubled person is a really polite way to put it. But if you look at his art, like, I had no idea. I've seen so many works of his art, and I never pieced together that they were the same person. And then when I really started to read some criticism of his work, I'm like, oh, my God, this guy. He's considered one of the fathers of modern art. And this guy was painting at the beginning of the 17th century, the early 1600s, and just like pogs, he burned hot and bright and fast and furious, actually, sadly.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, that's right. That wasn't even forced. Nice work, Bob.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks.

[Chuck Bryant]

So Michelangelo Marisi da Caravaggio was Italian Baroque painter. He at one point in 1606, killed a man named Romuccio Tomasani and said, I got to get out of here because I'm in big trouble now. And went to. Went away from Rome and fled to Malta, where he had a pretty brief but I guess, notable stay. He was only there about six months and kind of hiding out and quickly hooked up with the Knights of Malta and was briefly one of the Knights of Malta for a month. Yeah. And painted one of his most famous paintings there. The oil on canvas, 12ft by 17ft. The beheading of John the Baptist.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it was an altar piece for The Order of St. John, also known as the Knights of Malta. They were going to, again, put this behind the altar in their church on Malta. And it was actually his little entry fee. They charged an entry fee, usually money to their initiates or pogs. But they. They accepted. Yeah, but they accepted this altar piece, this giant painting of St. John the Baptist being beheaded. And it was actually. I mean, as far as a Caravaggio goes, especially toward the end of his life, it's actually fairly tame because there's not, you know, like, jets of blood spurting out. It's a pool of blood that's being shown. He painted some really violent stuff.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And like you said, that kind of. That he was a master of light and shadow. It's called chiaroscuro. And he used it to really dramatic effect, including in that painting. And in fact, one of the other paintings that you might have seen of his, Chuck, it's called Judith Beheading Holofernes. Have you seen it?

[Chuck Bryant]

I have.

[Josh Clark]

So Judith, the woman who's in that painting, the woman who modeled for Judith? That was the woman that he killed Ranuccio Tomasoni over.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Did you know that?

[Chuck Bryant]

I did.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, you did. Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, at any rate, in this House of Works article, they called it a petty squabble, and that really doesn't tell the story.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Another explanation I saw was that it was over a tennis wager. And this is real tennis, not lawn tennis. And real tennis is kind of like this kooky mix between squash and racquetball and tennis, and it's all indoors, and there's, like, horse sheds basically involved that you can play off the roof stuff. It's really interesting stuff. And he used to play that a lot, too, but. So it was either over a wager or it was over this woman. Her name was. What was it?

[Chuck Bryant]

Judith?

[Josh Clark]

No. Felide. Felide, I believe, was the actual woman's name who modeled for Judith. So he ends up on Malta. He becomes a knight, and when he becomes this knight, he paints this altarpiece, and he signs his name in the pool of blood, which you're like, well, he's an artist. That seems like something an artist would do. Not Caravaggio. This is actually the first and only work of his that he ever signed, which a lot of people are like, okay, well, wait a minute. Let's examine this.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And it kind of took a while for it to be even very visible because it underwent some restorations over the years. And in the 1950s, they did a restoration where they really could see the signature. And what it said, I don't know about for the first time, but, like, super clearly, at least. And it said, F, period, dot, F, Michelang, M, I, C, H, E, L, A, N, G. And then, of course, everyone's like, well, what does this mean? Because there is no F in his name. It's not like his initial. Is he saying, hey, screw Michelangelo. Myself, screw me or I'm screwed? No, no one really said that. They thought the F. There are a couple of different theories. Thought it was shorthand for frater, which means brother, because he was one of the knights. And maybe he just meant, like, Brother Michelangelo or whatever. And then some other people said, no, Maybe it means stands for fecit, F E, C, I, T, which is Latin for did, translating basically into I did it. And it's spelled out in blood, kind of confessing to his crime.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So that's kind of like where the mystery comes in. Was he confessing to the crime of murdering Ranuccio Tomassoni? From what I saw most. I can't say most. But the art historians and critics that I saw basically said no, he almost certainly wasn't doing that. For one, everybody knew that he did it. He'd already been convicted in absentia.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's what I thought.

[Josh Clark]

So it's not like he was confessing to it. Although you can make the case that he was confessing in the Catholic sense of the word. You know what I mean?

[Chuck Bryant]

Right? Like before God.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, exactly. Or Debares.

[Chuck Bryant]

That painting still hangs at St John's Co Cathedral in Malta, too.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean, it was the altar piece. Like, they, like, it was a big deal that they got their hands on this because he was a celebrated painter at the time, already in his lifetime. But the other interpretation, that he was saying F as in freighter or Brother Michelangelo about himself, that's probably the likelier version because he was at the time seeking a pardon from the Pope so he could return to Rome. And by saying, like, I'm in this holy Order, I'm basically like a Catholic holy man now, a leader of the Church because the Order of St. John, the Knights of Malta, have inducted me. He was basically shouting it loud and proud by signing that one particular very holy painting that he did.

[Chuck Bryant]

But they said, nice try, buddy. And they kicked him out for being a, quote, foul and rotten member. End quote.

[Josh Clark]

So it didn't work a month after. A month? Dude, he lasted a month in the Order of St. John. And it's not like they ran around willy nilly inducting people. Like they basically had no idea that they had. What was Vic's last name in the Shield?

[Chuck Bryant]

Vic Tabeck?

[Josh Clark]

No, not Vic Tabak.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know. I didn't watch the Shield.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, you didn't? It was good. I rewatched like the last seven episodes the other night over a couple of nights. This still holds up, actually. But anyway, they didn't realize that they had inducted him, the guy from the Shield. And they figured it out pretty quickly. So he made his way back from Malta to, I believe, Sicily on his way to Rome. And I think he actually got a pardon and got into yet another squabble, another sword fight, and sustained some wounds. And between infected wounds, they think he got a staph infection, lead poisoning. He apparently had gone rather mad from being exposed to the paints that he painted with. And then sun exposure, sunstroke on the beach in Tuscany finally killed him.

[Chuck Bryant]

And so it goes.

[Josh Clark]

Yes, it does. But his paintings are still just amazing. I can look at them all day, you know?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, me too. I like this. I like this stuff.

[Josh Clark]

I do too. So that's Caravaggio. How about Vermeer?

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I think we should take a break.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, gosh.

[Chuck Bryant]

And we'll be back right after this.

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Josh Clark]

As much as he loves this job.

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Listen to Potter Rebellion on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right. We had a great cliffhanger with Vermeer. Vermeer. The very famous Dutch artist Johannes Vermeer had a very famous painting, a lot of very famous paintings, but one in particular that has had a bunch of names over the years. In fact, it did not get the name Girl with a Pearl earring until the 20th century. It was called everything from Girl with a Turban to Girl with an Earring had lots of different names because it was not officially titled by Vermeer nor dated, even though they think it was around 1665.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, he was just like this dude who lived in Delft in the Netherlands and never left his hometown and had a wife and 15 kids.

[Chuck Bryant]

15?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, 15 kids. And just kind of painted. And he made probably a comparatively small number of works. I think around 36 are attributed to him. And there's a theory that as many as a fifth of those were done by his oldest daughter, Maria. But he's kind of like this enigma at the time, not just personally, but also the stuff he was painting. There was a huge movement among the Dutch painters at the time that they would paint, like, these, you know, horrific hellscapes or there was a lot of, like, obvious narrative and symbolism just all over the paintings. There was just a lot going on. Vermeer went a different way, where he would almost peek in on very normal daily life and capture, like, these. These really just kind of boring or otherwise mundane moments. But he did it in a way that. That this guy was like the master of light. He makes Thomas Kinkade look like puke as far as, like, you know, light mastery goes.

[Chuck Bryant]

So Girl with a Pearl Earring. Everyone has seen it. Like I said, it's very famous. It's of a young girl, looks to be sort of like mid teenage years, looking over her shoulder. She's wearing a dress. She's wearing that turban. Very prominent earrings, large pearl earrings and pearls factored into quite a few of his works over the years. And it's one of those paintings where the eyes follow you, supposedly, which we've talked about in one of our short Stuff episodes.

[Josh Clark]

A Mona Lisa.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think so, yeah. It's the effect of the eyes following which doesn't happen in all paintings with eyes.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, no, the Mona Lisa's eyes actually don't follow you. I think that was the big reveal of that one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Was it?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right. So he paints this painting, and then, of course, the mystery of this one is, who is this person? There has been speculation that it might be a mistress. A lot of people think it was his daughter Maria, who would have been about 15 or 16, and, like you said, who some people believe painted about a fifth of the works attributed to him. Because about a fifth of his collected works aren't. I mean, this sounds mean to say, but they aren't, as. They aren't up to snuff compared to his other works. So they sort of stand out from the rest. So they think that they may have been Maria's good paintings still.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, they're still a lot better than anything I could do.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. It's not like they were stick figures. You know, out of nowhere, they're like.

[Josh Clark]

This Vermeer seems off.

[Chuck Bryant]

But, you know, if you've. There was a 1999 novel from Tracy Chevalier, the Girl with the Pearl Earring, and then the 2000 film adaptation starring Scarlett Johansson, who was perfectly cast. She looks, you know, quite a bit like the Girl with the Pearl Earring. But this was historical fiction. If you've seen that movie and you're like, no, she was the family's maid's assistant and love interest to Vermeer. That was just. I don't even think that was based on anything. It's just historical fiction.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. From what I've seen, the art critics and historians basically tend to think that there was no person that this was modeled on. It wasn't even necessarily his daughter. It was, in fact, it was kind of a trend at the time, a painting called a Trony, which was an imaginary figure, a person who didn't actually exist. And the point was to kind of show off things like costumes and jewelry, which is ostensibly the point of that painting. But the thing is, the Vermeer, the face that he did and the place that he put her. Like, we were talking about how she gets compared to Mona Lisa. She's called the Mona. Mona Lisa of the North. Mona Lisa is, like, sitting back in the painting. The Girl with the Pearl Earring is, like, right in the foreground. Like, right. There's very little between you and her. And she's turned around and her mouth's open, which apparently was very unusual for painting, Dutch painting at the time. And it looks like she's going to say, Something, I guess that. That is what entrances people with this. This. This image that, you know, what's she going to say? What did he capture her about to say? You know, it looks like she's turning around, like, oh, and, you know, this other thing I hadn't told you, maybe.

[Chuck Bryant]

She was an improv comedian and she was. Yes, and.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. And you never know.

[Chuck Bryant]

But this is a mystery that will never be solved, which sometimes I like those kind of mysteries when it comes to stuff like this.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And I saw that argued as well that it was like, you know, if we knew who she was, it would just. We would lose a lot of the interest in it.

[Chuck Bryant]

And we would have found out by now, I think.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. Yeah. And you're right. We probably won't ever know, but because of this. So, like, it wasn't like, very well thought of, or nobody really thought much of it until 1995, and the National Gallery used it as the poster for their big exhibit. But since then, a lot of people have really kind of examined it. And I hadn't noticed this before, but I saw it pointed out. Chuck, if you look at the pearl earring, first of all, it's improbably large, is how I saw it described. Like, the ear couldn't physically hold up a pearl that size. But then secondly, it's really basically made with two brushstrokes. Both of them are reflecting light. One is from the light source, and then the lower one is reflecting the light off of the collar. And it's pretty amazing that, you know, we talk about this. The girl with the pearl earring. This pearl itself is like a kind of a cultural icon, too. And it's basically just two brush strokes, which is kind of goes to show how great Vermeer was.

[Chuck Bryant]

Amazing.

[Josh Clark]

Have you ever seen Tim's Vermeer, the documentary?

[Chuck Bryant]

I have not.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, Chuck, you gotta see it. It's directed by Teller from Penn and Teller, which makes you think, like, how did he direct if he doesn't talk? You know, he somehow did.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think he talks in private.

[Josh Clark]

It's about what.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's just a bit.

[Josh Clark]

And it's about a guy who basically figured out that Vermeer somehow projected images that. That he built in real life onto a canvas and then painted them that way. And he actually replicates a Vermeer, like, perfectly. It's really just one of the better documentaries you'll ever see.

[Chuck Bryant]

Very cool.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So what do you think? On to Raphael.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So the mystery here. And this is one of our. This actually has a Simpsons Crossover as well, which is kind of fun because Raphael painted a very famous painting called Portrait of a Young man and is largely described as one of the most famous, if not the most famous pieces of art to go missing during the plundering of great art in World War II by Hitler and the gang. And this is a crossover with the Simpsons in that in the Fighting Hellfish episode when Grandpa Abe and Burns are stealing art, this is one of the paintings, Portrait of a Young Man.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's one of the paintings that they stole. Wow. Which shows that, you know, Simpsons writers, back then at least, were definitely doing their work, like their research work. Cause that's a nice little Easter egg, I think.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it totally is. Doesn't it even talk? Doesn't it say something like someone's guilty conscience or something? I don't remember making that up.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know. I don't remember. I mean, it's been a long time since I've seen that one, but it was one of the great episodes, I think.

[Josh Clark]

So the Portrait of the Young man, which they think was a Raphael self portrait. And actually we have no idea what the colors were because the only photographs we have of it were in black and white. But it used to hang in the Princess Zartorsky Museum in Poland, along with two other really important paintings. Leonardo's lady with an Ermine, which is a Scot stoat. I can't remember. I kind of a weasel like animal. And then Rembrandt's Landscape with the Good Samaritan. And all three of those and everything else in the Prince's Artory Museum were swiped by the Nazis when they came to Poland and placed in the office of a guy named Hans Frank, who was the head of the government for the Nazis in Poland. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And, you know, they almost got these hidden away successfully when Poland was being invaded. They knew that the art was going to be plundered. And so those three paintings were actually rescued by the prince and hidden away in a house in a place that I can't even pronounce. Sienois. Not sure what that is. But they were ultimately found by the Gestapo and handed over to Frank. And Frank, you know, they were supposed to go to Hitler. Hitler was going to open a museum, the Fuhrer Museum in Linz. And Frank actually kind of kept it for a little while, hung it in his residence. And then eventually this thing went to Germany and then Austria for a little while, and then back with Frank in.

[Josh Clark]

1945, which seems crazy improbable that they would end up back with him. But they did. And the Allies came in to Poland, I guess, and arrested Hans Frank in 1945. And they were able to find the lady with an Ermine and the Landscape with the Good Samaritan, but the portrait of the young man was nowhere to be found.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, they found a lot of other stuff, too.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. They definitely did. But the three most important pieces in the Prince's Zartarsky Museum were those three. And two were recovered, one wasn't. And it's very odd to think that they were separated at any time or that it's even odder to think that two were kept together, but one wasn't. And so, because the portrait of the young man was not recovered, and it's a Raphael, who's one of the great Italian Renaissance painters, it's considered maybe the most important piece to go missing in World War II.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And they, you know, along with, I think, over 800 other artifacts they got from him. And they could not go on to question him very long because he was executed just a year later. And since then, there have been a lot of rumors about where this thing ended up. Who has it? A lot of speculation that maybe a private collector in another country has it. I think in 2012, there was a false report that it was supposedly in some bank vault. And they really don't know. It's just sort of one of those great mysteries of a disappeared painting. And my money is on a private collector. Probably has this thing stashed away. But you would also think that at some point somebody would talk.

[Josh Clark]

You would think so. And, you know, maybe they will eventually.

[Chuck Bryant]

Unless it's really stashed.

[Josh Clark]

Well, some people think it was destroyed in that movie Monuments Men.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

They show the Nazis igniting it with the flamethrower in a cave with a bunch of other art. And there, you know, there's a whole camp that says, now this thing is. It's gone forever. So they did something to it because the Nazis were known not just plunder, but also destroy art as well. Which. Just one more reason to love them Nazis.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And I think this is oil on panel, so it's. I don't think this could even be, like, rolled up in a tube and put under your bed or anything.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I guess not. No. I didn't realize it was on panel, but that makes sense. But the state, the National Museum in Krakow, bought the entire Princessi collection from a private collector for 100 million euros back in 2016. And. I know. And that included the rights to portrait of a young man in case it's ever found. And for now, it just they have the original frame hanging empty in the gallery.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's it. Turns out that's a thing I didn't know was a thing. Empty frames in galleries. It's kind of sad.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's sad. It's very poignant. It says, come home. Come home. We're leaving the light on for you. Come home.

[Chuck Bryant]

Just like Motel 6.

[Josh Clark]

That's right. I'm Tom Brokaw. We'll leave the light out for you.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, well, that means it's time for another break and we'll be back right after this to talk a little bit about Van Gogh. Foreign.

[Sponsor]

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[Vanessa Marshall]

Welcome to Pod of Rebellion, our new Star Wars Rebels Rewatch podcast. I'm Vanessa Marshall.

[Tia Sircar]

Hi, I'm Tia Sircar.

[Taylor Gray]

I'm Taylor Gray.

[Jon Librody]

And I'm John Lee Brody.

[Vanessa Marshall]

But you may also know us as Harrison Doula, Specter 2, Sabine Wren, Spectre.

[Taylor Gray]

5, and Ezra Bridger, Spectre 6 from Star Wars Rebels.

[Jon Librody]

Wait, I wasn't on Star Wars Rebels. Am I in the right place?

[Vanessa Marshall]

Absolutely.

[Tia Sircar]

Each week we're going to rewatch and discuss an episode from the series and.

[Taylor Gray]

Share some fun behind the scenes stories.

[Jon Librody]

Sometimes we'll be visited by special guests like Steve bloom voices Zaborelio's Spectre 4, or Dante Bosco, voice of Jai Kell and many others.

[Tia Sircar]

Sometimes we'll even have a lively debate.

[Taylor Gray]

And we'll have plenty of other fun surprises and trivia too.

[Jon Librody]

Oh, and me. Well, I'm the lucky ghost crew Stowaway who gets to help moderate and guide the discussion each week. Kind of like how Canaan guided Ezra in the ways of the Force. You see what I did there?

[Tia Sircar]

Nicely done, John.

[Jon Librody]

Thanks, Tia.

[Vanessa Marshall]

So hang on cause it's gonna be a fun ride.

[Taylor Gray]

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[Jon Librody]

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Well, I guess I'm saying I like you, you like me.

He actually is too good to be true.

This is a con. I'm conning you to get the Delano painting. We could do this together.

To pull off this heist, they'll have to get close and jump into the deep end together.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's a huge leap, Fernando, don't you think?

[Sponsor]

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But love is the biggest risk they'll ever take.

Fernando's never going to love you as.

[Chuck Bryant]

Much as he loves this job.

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That painting is ours.

Listen to the setup as part of the Mike Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Josh Clark]

So, Chuck, before I launch into a Sakago way type tirade onto you, is that how you accurately pronounce his name?

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know. It was from the filmmaker who dare not speak his name. It was from a Woody Allen movie. I think it was in the most problematic movie, Manhattan, when he's with Diane Keaton and some obnoxious person says van. I think it's Diane Keaton, says Van Gogh. And he's, you know, he's incensed. He's like, van Gogh. Like, how pretentious.

[Josh Clark]

So, okay, so instead we're just gonna go with Van Gogh like everybody else, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, sure.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

And we can cut all that out if we want to. Don't even want to talk about Woody Allen. That's fine.

[Josh Clark]

Sure, sure. I hear you. So Van Gogh is most. He was just such a sad, tragic figure. I feel for this guy so much. After learning more about him, we should do an entire podcast on him, if you ask me.

[Chuck Bryant]

Agreed.

[Josh Clark]

But instead, here we're going to talk about his death, because there is a mystery surrounding his death. He's very famous for having cut off his ear. He definitely did that. And I had always learned that he did it to impress a sex worker who he was enamored with. And he definitely did give her his ear after he cut it off. But that's not why he cut it off. He cut it off in a fit of angst, basically, after having an argument with his friend Paul Gauguin, who he was living with in Arles in the south of France. And he said, well, I'm gonna make some sort of lemonade out of this lemon I just gave myself. And he took it to his, I guess, hopeful girlfriend. And I believe she was not that impressed with it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, so he suffered from definitely depression. There is speculation that he had bipolar disorder.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I saw that too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Was, you know, just sort of long suffering. As an artist, he didn't. He only sold one painting before he died in 1890 at the age of 37. And the story goes is that he shot himself in the chest with a revolver. But it gets a little more complicated than that. And in what year was the book? In 2011, there was a book written called Van Gogh the Life, written by Stephen, I'm gonna say Mifa, and Gregory White Smith. And it seems like they sort of launched this idea, or at least really put it in the public forefront that he was actually killed almost certainly accidentally by one of two boys, younger gentlemen that he was hanging out with that day.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So here's the thing, like there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that supports that theory that he was killed by two boys.

[Chuck Bryant]

I buy it.

[Josh Clark]

There's also, it's also circumstantially plausible that, you know, Van Gogh died by suicide as well. But even if you take his story and start digging into it and the statements that he made, supposedly made, apparently everything we know about it comes from the owner of the inn where he rented a room's 13 year old daughter at the time as a witness to all this. But even if you take what he supposedly said, it still doesn't add up that number one, he shot himself in the chest and most importantly that number two, the gun that he shot himself with could never be found. And instead of actually, you know, finishing the suicide, completing the suicide, he couldn't find the gun after he shot himself in the chest and just walked back to his room where he died after suffering 20 more hours, but still to the end claiming that he had done this himself. Even if you take all that together, it seems like, no, this is something really fishy going on here.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So this bullet misses all of his internal organs very improbably because it deflected off his rib cage. And he walked, like you said, to the doctor who they didn't have a surgeon on duty, so they couldn't remove the bullet. He lived a total of 30 hours after the shot and died of infection. Got to talk with his brother, you know, was speaking to people. So he had every opportunity to say that these two boys that I was hanging out with, that I was drinking, and I say boys, I think they were maybe late teens, early 20s.

[Josh Clark]

No, they were 16.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay. I saw early 20s in another thing.

[Josh Clark]

Oh yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

But you know, hanging out, getting drunk with them. One of these boys, Rene Secretin, had a gun that apparently misfired a lot. And he liked playing with this thing. He liked to play cowboys? Supposedly he did. And so it all just seems. And even his statement, he said, he didn't say I shot myself. He said, do not accuse anyone. It was I who wanted to kill myself.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Which is very peculiar as well.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. It's ambiguous, I think, as far as like. Cause the idea is that maybe he was accidentally shot and then after he was shot he was like, this is kind of what I wanted all along. You know, I've been heading down this road toward suicide. And then now it's just done for me.

[Josh Clark]

So what seems to have happened is that this gun possibly that it wasn't actually murder or any kind of premeditated murder, more like a manslaughter where Rene and his brother Gaston were messing around and accidentally, basically he had seen a Wild Bill Cody Wild west show the year before and became obsessed with it. So that's what he was doing with the gun and playing cowboy and that they had accidentally shot him with this gun that was kind of, you know, known to misfire. So the thing was that the gun was never found. Rene went back to school like right after that, which was still in the middle of summer break from what I saw. And the town seems to have circled the wagons around these boys because, you know, Van Gogh was an outsider. He was not very well thought of. He used to get really drunk and argue with the locals in the cafe and everything, like basically every night. And these boys came from like a good, well to do family. So for many years, like that was just the thing, it just happened. And then slowly, little by little, it seems to have trickled out some support for this idea. Like no, like Van Gogh wasn't anywhere near this field. He said that he had shot himself in. He was actually on the road to the Secretant's house. And then finally, years later, Rene Secretant said that, you know, he, it probably was his gun and that Van Gogh had somehow gotten a hold of it. It seems, it seems likely that, that he was shot by them, whether accident or not.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And these two authors, they put forth some other circumstantial evidence like that the, the bullet went in at a weird angle that would not have been the angle if you shot yourself in the chest. That his more recent works were a little more upbeat and a little more positive and that he was not in that kind of mindset at the time and that he had recently even written his thoughts about suicide, that he thought it was sinful and immoral. And so they sort of use all this as evidence that he would not have done it himself and that it was. You know, they believe it was an accident. His last words, very sad. Were, the sadness will last forever. He spoke to his brother, which. That's tough.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it is. I really do want to do an episode on him, and I think Secretan.

[Chuck Bryant]

Came out in the 50s, even, and denied it. Right. Like, finally, once and for all.

[Josh Clark]

He did. He did. But he also. He also said that it probably was his gun and that somehow Van Gogh had gotten it right.

[Chuck Bryant]

But, hey, that ain't my fault.

[Josh Clark]

No. But to also to backpedal and be like, it probably was my gun. Because that was another thing. Everybody's like, where did Van Gogh get a gun? Van Gogh didn't have a gun. No. And no one would have given Van Gogh a gun. He was the guy who got drunk every night and had cut off his ear before. That was like, no one in town would have given him a gun. So the fact that he even admitted that it was his gun is probably as close as Rene Surkartan ever came to confessing publicly about it, you know?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And it makes sense. What he said was, do not accuse anyone. Like, that really seems like he's trying to cover for these kids that he didn't want to get in trouble.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Because if he wanted to die, but was also, he didn't want to die by his own hand, like, this is kind of a lucky gift in a very strange way, you know?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I'm going to that immersive Van Gogh thing in July.

[Josh Clark]

Where is that?

[Chuck Bryant]

It is here in Atlanta. It's at the Pullman yards.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Over in Kirkwood, where they're shoot. Like, every movie in Atlanta shoots there, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So, yeah. It's supposed to be pretty cool.

[Josh Clark]

It's very, very neat. Sounds neat. I mean, like, basically, they just make the stars come out whenever you come in, I think. So you come sit in this yellow chair.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think that's the deal. I think you go in and you are surrounded by projected art in different ways from what I can get.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, that's. I got to check that out, man. Thanks for telling me about it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. It looks kind of cool.

[Josh Clark]

All right, Chuck, you want to finish out talking about Hitler?

[Chuck Bryant]

Don't you mean Hilter?

[Josh Clark]

Did you notice that there's Hilter? Oh, my gosh. Yes. In the headline.

[Chuck Bryant]

In the headline. Did Hilter really do these paintings? Do these paintings? Who wrote that? I feel bad, but, like, did Hilter really do these paintings?

[Josh Clark]

That's great.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah, he did them.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, Hilter did these paintings. So we're talking not about Hilter, but about Hitler. Adolf Hitler in particular. And as everybody knows, Hitler was a frustrated artist.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, big time.

[Josh Clark]

You know, people have made a lot of hay about how possibly the world would be a totally different place had he been accepted into the Vienna Academy of Arts. And he came. Well, I don't want to say he came close, but he made two different attempts in one year to be accepted. And they basically looked at his stuff and said, look, man, you have the skill of a draftsman. Maybe you should go into architecture, but you're not going to be an artist.

[Chuck Bryant]

And he said architecture.

[Josh Clark]

That was a direct quote. But this was a huge deal for him, I think. I read in Mein Kampf. I haven't read Mein Kampf, but I read an article by somebody who read Mein Kampf and said that he said it was like a bolt from the blue and that, you know, he was pursuing this dream that his father would, like, beat him out of. Like, his father enrolled him in a technical school. He was like, no son of mine's gonna be an artist. He would beat him up whenever he brought the idea up. And so finally, after his father died and then he nursed his ailing mother until she died, he got up the gumption, did, like, go and enroll in art school. And apparently, he, being Hitler, who I guess had been fairly bonkers his whole life, just knew that he was destined to become an artist. So the idea that he was rebuffed not once but twice by this Vienna school. These people were, like, the guardians of what is art and what is not. And they were telling him, what you got is not. That was a huge deal to him.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was a very big deal. And it's funny, it's just now occurring to me that there was sort of a similar thing with Manson's rejection as a musician by the music industry. I never really kind of really thought of that parallel. But in 1909, Hitler is traipsing around Vienna, and he is selling watercolors copied from postcards to tourists. So if you've ever traveled to Europe, he was one of those guys that was down by the river. The riverbank, yeah. In a van selling these. And literally copied from postcards. So he did that for a little while, made a little bit of money. Cause, you know, if you look at his art, it's way better than I could do. It's. You know, it's okay, but, like, modern. And it's hard to tell if modern art critics, like so much goes into looking at a Hitler painting and reviewing it. Like, it's really hard to kind of separate those things. But the general thought is that he had nothing exceptional about him at all. He was the kind of artist that would sell stuff down by the river to tourists. They were fine. He was capable. But they were copycat paintings. He was copying things. He had no point of view. He did this in 1913 as well in Munich, painting Munich cityscapes and landscapes and selling them to tourists. And then in 1914, got hauled in by the police, of all things, for failing to register for the military.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And then they. He. He went down and registered, and then they. They gave him a. A physical exam, and he failed it. They said it was too weak to fire a weapon.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So they arrested him so that they could humiliate him, basically. And then When World War I came around, he enlisted, and they say, we need everybody we can get. Come on in. And he answered, right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Even Hilter. Hilter did this army thing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

So when he rose to power in Germany, one of the things he did was he had his works collected and destroyed. I'm not exactly sure what the thinking was behind that, I guess, because he knew it wasn't very good and he needed to focus on his political career rather than his artistic career or have everybody else focus on it, but to no avail. Because I saw a 1936 critic, or a critic wrote in 1936 that his style was prosaic, utterly devoid of rhythm, color, feeling, or spiritualism.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And this was before he. Or. I'm sorry. Or spiritual imagination. And this was before he had really become an obvious threat. This is 1936. So even back then, even without hindsight, people thought his stuff wasn't very good. So, yeah, he had his stuff destroyed. And that's. It was kind of a footnote for a very long time that he was an artist and no one really cared after his death.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, and that was one of the major reasons that he was such an art plunderer during the war and stole as much art as he could from real famous artists and famous paintings. Because he had all this backstory as a failed artist. And it was interesting. I did see that, like, one of his major. I mean. Cause he wasn't an utter failure at first. He had a backer early on, I think, who was a Jewish man.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Morgenstern.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Which was really interesting. And there was. I don't know, man. There's a lot of speculation about what that all meant to him. And, like, people try and draw parallels to, like, some of the paintings. I mean, some of it feels like a stretch, definitely. Like the, you know, the cold. The cold streets of Munich, like, were painted, like, clearly with a future cleansing in mind to make it look like this.

[Josh Clark]

And it's a stretch.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Some of that stuff seems like a stretch, but you could definitely read into the backstory, at least, I think, with some accuracy.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And even if, like, you can't necessarily suss out, like, the future from his paintings, you can make a pretty strong case that his artistic ambitions being utterly crushed had some sort of driving force or impact on his psyche, at the very least.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sure.

[Josh Clark]

Like that. And his. His later political career and dictatorship did not exist in a vacuum. I don't think you can possibly make the case that they were just unrelated in any way.

[Chuck Bryant]

No. I think any sociopath, you can look at their past and see the dots connected, you know?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So like you said, there was this kind of just was the deal for a long time. And then like, anything else, like, people wanting to get original Charles Manson music reels. In the early, late 90s, early 2000s, there was a market for Hitler's work. I think in 2009, a British auction house, someone paid 150 grand for 15 early sketches in watercolors, including a self portrait. And then in 2015, some unnamed investors paid $450,000 for a set of watercolors. I think there were 12 or 13 that survived.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. The problem is, because he didn't have a style of his own, that he was copying postcards, that he didn't have any formal training, and that he lacked a lot of creativity or any creativity. It seems like it's really hard to say this is a Hitler and this is a fake. And there's been developed a really, really enormous market of fakes, because anybody who's, like, a passingly good artist in watercolors of streetscapes and landscapes could drum up something and be like, this is a Hitler. And it would be really difficult to say, yes, it is, or no, it's not.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. What kind of a garbage human do you have to be to think, I'll do Hitler forgeries and try and sell them to garbage humans that want to collect them?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And it's not like these are even fetching, like, $10 million a piece. We're talking, like, you might get $10,000 for it. For your Hitler forgery.

[Chuck Bryant]

Unbelievable, but totally believable.

[Josh Clark]

So that's the mystery of the Hitler paintings. Did he do this?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Did he do those paintings?

[Josh Clark]

You got anything else?

[Chuck Bryant]

I got nothing else. That was a good five. I think we have committed to doing a robust episode on the Gardner Museum heist, because that's a good one. And that was on this list and way underplayed, for sure.

[Josh Clark]

So keep an ear out for that, everybody. And since I said keep an ear out for that, I think it's time for listener male.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I'm gonna call this middle names because we had a little discussion in our John Muir episode about how Emily and I and our friends Justin and Melissa one night were going by our middle names as a joke. And I had the theory that you have no emotional connection to your middle name if you don't have a reaction when you hear it said out loud. And I just meant sort of the non dominant name. It didn't necessarily mean middle names because my brother goes by his middle name. Scott is his middle name. And some people do that. It's a thing. And certainly Amy does. She said, I was listening to the show, and at the end, you were chatting about using middle names and how you don't have an emotional connection when you hear it. I have an interesting situation that everyone. Everyone in my family uses their middle names. So I've always been called Amy ever since. Since I was born. But my first name is Helen. This causes an interesting situation at airports and doctors appointments where they refer to me as Helen, and I always have to remember that they're talking to me. Big fan of the show. Kept me curious and my curious spirit satisfied over the last three or four years. And it's such a comfort knowing there's always another episode to listen to. Best wishes from the uk. They're always so nice. And that is from Amy. Helen. Amy.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks, Helen. Amy. We'll just call her Amy, as is customary.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, because we say Helen. She's like, who?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Wow. I can't wait until they read my listener mail. Says Amy. If you want to be like Amy and get in touch with us for whatever reason, you can send us an email to stuffpodcastradio.com.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff youf Should Know.

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[Chuck Bryant]

For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Sponsor]

Big shout out to you for making it through the hectic holiday season this new year. Get clean. Quality pregnancy nutrient support off your to do list including Ritual's best selling Essential Prenatal multivitamin designed with 12 traceable key ingredients to support a healthy pregnancy. With big changes coming up, take the small steps and start today with 30% off a three month [e-mail] podcast these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

Taxes was feeling so stuck sitting in traffic squeezing into a parking spot all to squeeze in getting Tax help during your lunch break. Now Taxes is a TurboTax expert who does your taxes for you while you go about your day, getting real time notifications about their progress and the most money back guaranteed. Now this IS taxes Intuit TurboTax get an expert now on TurboTax.com Only available with TurboTax Live full service real time updates only in iOS mobile app. See guaranteed details at TurboTax.com guarantees Welcome.

[Vanessa Marshall]

To Pod of Rebellion, our new Star Wars Rebels Rewatch podcast. I'm Vanessa Marshall, voice of Harrison Doula Specter 2.

[Tia Sircar]

I'm Tia Zirkar Sabine Wren, Specter 5.

[Taylor Gray]

I'm Taylor Gray, Ezra Bridger, Specter 6.

[Jon Librody]

And I'm Jon Librody, the Ghost Crew Stowaway Moderator.

[Tia Sircar]

Each week we're gonna rewatch and discuss an episode from the series and share some fun behind the scenes stories.

[Jon Librody]

Sometimes we'll be visited by special guests like Steve bloom voices Zaborelio Spectre 4 or Dante Bosco voices Jaquel and many others.

[Vanessa Marshall]

So hang on because it's gonna be a fun ride.

[Taylor Gray]

Cue the music.

[Jon Librody]

Listen to Potter Rebellion on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.