Selects: The Quinoa Revolution!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stuff You Should Know – "The Quinoa Revolution!"

Episode Information

• Title: The Quinoa Revolution!
• Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant
• Release Date: January 4, 2025
• Description: Dive deep into the surge of quinoa's popularity, its historical significance, nutritional benefits, and the complex socio-economic impacts of its global demand.

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1. Introduction to Quinoa

Josh and Chuck kick off the episode by reminiscing about their limited initial knowledge of quinoa, expressing a desire to revisit and fully understand its rise to prominence.

Josh (01:09): "Learn everything you always wanted to know and more about quinoa right now."

2. Historical Origins and Cultivation

The hosts delve into quinoa's rich history, highlighting its Andean roots and ancient cultivation.

• Ancient Heritage: Quinoa has been cultivated for over 5,000 to 8,000 years in the Andean regions of Peru and Bolivia, particularly around Lake Titicaca.

• Cultural Significance: It holds a revered place in indigenous cultures, evident from archaeological findings in ancient tombs.

Chuck (03:20): "There are at least 120 varieties, and it is nothing new. It's been around."

3. Quinoa as a Superfood

Josh and Chuck explore quinoa's nutritional profile, debating its classification as a superfood.

• Nutrient-Rich: Quinoa is lauded for its high protein content, complete amino acid profile, fiber, magnesium, potassium, and being gluten-free.

• Complete Protein: Unlike many plants, quinoa contains all essential amino acids, making it a rare complete protein source.

Josh (10:03): "It's super, super good for you."

However, Josh challenges the notion that quinoa's protein content is exceptional compared to other legumes and beans.

Josh (10:35): "Edamame, black beans, lima beans, chickpeas. All beat it by a mile."

4. The Global Boom: Factors and Influencers

The surge in quinoa's popularity in the early 21st century is attributed to various influencers and market dynamics.

• Oprah's Influence: An episode featuring Oprah on a cleanse diet in 2008 significantly boosted quinoa's visibility in the U.S.

Chuck (06:20): "She was on some sort of Cleanse diet in 2008, and she ate quinoa and mushrooms."

• Chefs Embracing Quinoa: Culinary professionals began incorporating quinoa into recipes, further driving its trendiness.

5. Economic Impact on Indigenous Farmers

The hosts scrutinize the claims surrounding quinoa's booming prices and its effects on local farmers.

• Price Surge: From $500 per metric ton in 2005 to $1,300 in 2010, quinoa's price nearly tripled, raising concerns about affordability for local populations.

Josh (24:43): "So you can see why that's a big one."

• Market Control: A Bolivian UN development worker, Sergio Nunez D'Arco, played a pivotal role in organizing indigenous farmers into cooperatives to meet international demand ethically.

Chuck (23:17): "He went around to them and said, hey, these weekend farmers markets are cute, but how would you like to be a part of the industrial food supply?"

6. Debunking Negative Impact Myths

Challenging prevailing narratives, Josh and Chuck reference studies indicating that quinoa boom improved local welfare.

• Research Findings: A study utilizing Peru's national survey data revealed that quinoa farmers experienced increased household welfare, dispelling myths of malnourishment caused by rising quinoa prices.

Chuck (30:37): "They said this is actually a pretty small part of their diet overall, and they're actually eating more quinoa than ever before in that region that grows the most."

7. Sustainability and Agricultural Practices

The conversation shifts to the environmental repercussions of intensified quinoa farming.

• Land Use Conflicts: Increased demand has led to land grabs, resulting in violent conflicts among farmers over previously abandoned lands.

Chuck (33:16): "There was fighting going on... one guy got his arm blown off by dynamite during this battle among hundreds of farmers for some land."

• Decreased Biodiversity: Focus on a few high-demand varieties threatens the vast genetic diversity of quinoa, which is crucial for adapting to climate change.

Chuck (36:33): "They could adapt to things like climate change. And if you narrow the varieties down to certain few and they don't adapt, then you're kind of screwed."

• Ecological Balance: Traditional practices like llama grazing, which naturally fertilizes quinoa fields, are being replaced by less sustainable methods, disrupting local ecosystems.

Josh (34:16): "The llamas, that's one of the big issues... they're not letting them poop everywhere."

8. Quinoa Cultivation in the United States

Exploring quinoa farming outside the Andes, Josh and Chuck discuss challenges faced by U.S. farmers.

• California's Imperial Valley: Farmers are attempting to grow quinoa in harsh environments below sea level, grappling with issues like weed contamination and disease threats from related species like lamb's quarters.

Chuck (38:08): "They’re growing it in the Sonoran Desert... one of the hottest places in North America."

9. Addressing Cultural and Legal Issues

The episode touches on the complexities of intellectual property and cultural preservation.

• Bio-Piracy Concerns: The unauthorized patenting of quinoa hybrid seeds by institutions like Colorado State University led to accusations of bio-piracy from Bolivia.

Josh (33:10): "The government of Bolivia called them bio pirates."

• Constitutional Protection: Bolivia's 2009 constitution recognizes quinoa as a part of its food sovereignty, emphasizing the protection of culturally significant crops.

Chuck (32:25): "Peru... how you're... protecting thousand-year-old varieties."

10. Future Prospects and Solutions

Looking ahead, the hosts discuss efforts to sustain quinoa's legacy and biodiversity.

• Internal Markets: Initiatives to promote diverse quinoa varieties within Andean countries through programs in schools and hospitals aim to preserve genetic diversity.

• Government Support: Subsidies and policies to support small indigenous farmers are crucial for maintaining quinoa's cultural and agricultural heritage.

Josh (37:59): "Government subsidies are for stuff like that, for small indigenous farmers."

11. Live Taste Test: Trying Soylent

As a lighter segment, Josh and Chuck engage in a live taste test of Soylent, tying into the episode's exploration of modern dietary trends.

• Taste Impressions: They compare Soylent's flavor to that of Cheerios milk, noting its blandness and chalky aftertaste.

Josh (40:08): "We got that a lot... smelt like cereal milk."

• Nutritional Content: Highlighting Soylent's role as a meal replacement, they comment on its calorie content and nutritional balance.

Chuck (41:21): "That's 20% of your daily nutrition."

12. Listener Interaction and Concluding Remarks

The episode concludes with interactions from listeners, including shout-outs and personal anecdotes related to the podcast content.

Sarah (43:26): "It's amazing to see a piece of your family history show up on your favorite podcast."

The hosts encourage listeners to engage via email and explore more content through their website, emphasizing continued exploration of topics like quinoa and modern food trends.

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Key Takeaways:

• Quinoa's Rich Heritage: An ancient Andean crop integral to indigenous cultures for millennia.
• Nutritional Powerhouse: Offers a complete protein source, rich in essential nutrients.
• Economic Dynamics: Global demand has both uplifted and challenged local farmers, with significant price fluctuations.
• Sustainability Concerns: Increased cultivation risks reducing genetic diversity and disrupting ecosystems.
• Cultural Preservation: Efforts are underway to maintain quinoa's traditional farming practices and varietal diversity.
• Modern Dietary Trends: The episode also touches on contemporary meal replacements like Soylent, reflecting ongoing discussions about nutrition and convenience.

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Notable Quotes:

• Josh (10:31): "You don't find that in plants very frequently. No, that's what helps make it a superfood."

• Chuck (23:15): "He basically was the flashpoint for the quinoa explosion."

• Josh (24:43): "So you can see why that's a big one."

• Chuck (36:33): "They're not letting it lay fallow any longer... it's more money, more problems."

• Josh (37:59): "Government subsidies are for stuff like that, for small indigenous farmers."

• Sarah (43:26): "It's amazing to see a piece of your family history show up on your favorite podcast."

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This episode of "Stuff You Should Know" provides a comprehensive exploration of quinoa's journey from an ancient Andean staple to a global superfood phenomenon, examining its nutritional benefits, economic implications, and the delicate balance between global demand and cultural preservation.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months. Happy Saturday. Hi, everybody. Chuck here. We're gonna go back in time today with this selection to February 7, 2017, the Quinoa Revolution. Mainly because I don't remember much about this one and I have to listen to these again. So I'm gonna listen and I hope you do, too. Learn everything you always wanted to know and more about quinoa right now. Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[A]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Charles W. Chuck Bryant's right there. Jerry's right there. It's a little chilly in here. So it's stuff you should know. The podcast, because it's chilly. Mm. That's the cherry on top.

[B]

That's right. Spoiler or not? Spoiler teaser. At the end of this episode, let's say between the end and before, listener mail that's agreeable to you.

[A]

At the 43 minute mark, we are.

[B]

Going to taste Soylent for the first time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Live on the air.

[A]

Yeah, I guess I should have thought this through. I took them out of the fridge already, so it was 43 minutes for it to warm up. Should we put them back?

[B]

Well, I wouldn't. You know, I wasn't going to say anything then. I was going to say something.

[A]

Should I put him back?

[B]

Well, it's probably best cold, don't you think?

[A]

Well, hang on, everybody. So, yes, we're going to try Soylent eventually in this episode.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I'm excited.

[B]

To try Soylent or to talk about quinoa?

[A]

Both. Okay, so, Chuck, you just kind of gave it away alongside the title.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

We're talking about quinoa today. Not quinoa.

[B]

No, quinoa. That's right. But it's a superfood.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Some say.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you can make a pretty good claim that it is a superfood. And what is a superfood if not a type of food that has a lot going on just in and of itself.

[B]

Yeah. It's super. Yeah.

[A]

Like, blueberries are superfood. Or acai berry.

[B]

Superfood. Yeah.

[A]

Or acai berries.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Algae.

[B]

I didn't know algae was. Oh, yeah, I buy that.

[A]

Hemp seeds?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Chia seeds.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of nuts.

[A]

Ritz crackers.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

No, those are just super, super delicious and buttery.

[B]

Yeah. With my crab dip especially.

[A]

Oh. But one day, maybe I'll find out.

[B]

What, you just want me to bring you crab dip?

[A]

Yeah. Give me a cooking lesson.

[B]

So, quinoa. There are at least 120 varieties, and it is nothing new. It's been around. In fact, we might as well delve into a little history here.

[A]

Yes, let's.

[B]

It's been cultivated for, geez, more than 5,000 years.

[A]

I saw. Up to 8,000 years.

[B]

Wow. That's more than 5,000.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Well, I guess we could say more than five years.

[A]

Right. More. More than the last six months quinoa has been around on this planet.

[B]

Yeah. And it's Andean plant and specifically originated around Lake Titicaca in Peru, in Bolivia, in the altiplano. Yeah. It's wonderful. Wonderful area.

[A]

Have you been.

[B]

Oh, no, but just look at photos.

[A]

Sure. Machu Picchu. Yeah. You're like, well, look at that place.

[B]

Exactly. One day, maybe I'd like to go.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

But it is. There is historical evidence of it being domesticated, like we said, maybe as long as 8,000 years ago. And they even saw in ancient tombs, they saw little archeological drawings and things what they think is quinoa. So people were ingesting it and using it as a superfood way back when.

[A]

Yeah. And the fact that it grew up there or grows up there, and not only grows, but thrives up in this high, rocky, I think, pretty much arid plateau that's also very cold. It doesn't make any sense that you'd have anything but, like, alpacas and llamas up there. But in fact, there's a plant that's one of the most nutritious foods on the planet that just so happens to thrive up there in Bolivia and Peru in the highlands. That's pretty awesome.

[B]

It is.

[A]

And so, of course, they have used this for thousands and thousands of years. And it wasn't until, I think, the early 20th century that it really started to make its way for the first time out to the United States. I think the USDA got their hands on it and tried to get farmers to grow it here in The States. And they said, nah, let's give it another hundred years, maybe a little less.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, the 21st century is when it really kind of became popular. And even in the last. Geez, mid 2000s, you can even talk about it being trendy.

[A]

Well, supposedly the whole trend for quinoa, which, by the way, in typical stuff you should know, fashion has already come and gone. And now we're doing an episode on it.

[B]

Oh, it's not gone.

[A]

Are you sure?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Okay. Well, do you know how quinoa hit the. Hit the map, hit the scene?

[B]

Well, in a lot of different ways, I assume. You think it's one thing only, right, Oprah? Yeah, she had something to do with it for sure.

[A]

She was on some sort of Cleanse diet in 2008, and she ate quinoa and mushrooms, I guess. And everybody was like, what is that? She's like, oh, you've been calling it quinoa. It's quinoa. They said, well, we have to try this now.

[B]

Yeah, she definitely was a factor. Oprah. Her reach is wide. It is, but it doesn't reach me.

[A]

Are you not an Oprah fan?

[B]

No, I think she's fine. But I didn't learn about quinoa from her or anything else.

[A]

Where'd you learn about quinoa then?

[B]

Just, you know, I think the first time I had it was in a restaurant. So to me, it spread because chefs.

[A]

Started using it because they watch Oprah.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Chefs don't serve anything unless Oprah eats. Patient zero here in the United States, you know, talked about at least 120 varieties. You're more than likely going to be eating the red, red, white and blue. No red, white, or black varieties of quinoa. And do you eat it in your home? I guess we'll get to this stuff. But I'm curious if you've cooked with it a lot.

[A]

Not a lot, no. I've had it here or there. I've had it in a couple restaurants.

[B]

So this stuff is known as an ancient grain, but it's not exactly a grain and it's not exactly a cereal. It's classified technically as a pseudo cereal.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like fruity Pebbles.

[A]

That's 100% cereal, baby.

[B]

They just came out with Cinnamon Pebbles.

[A]

Oh, I'll bet those are good. Yeah, you could make, like, cinnamon old shoes and put them in a cereal box and it'd be good.

[B]

But quinoa, technically is a pseudo cereal. It comes from the goose foot plant.

[A]

Right. That's why it's not A cereal. Cereal is a grain that comes from a grass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Goosefoot's not a grass, it's a plant.

[B]

No. And it looks kind of weedy, and as we'll see later when you're cultivating, it looks alarmingly like some other weeds.

[A]

Can be tricky with a capital W.

[B]

Oh, it looks like marijuana a little.

[A]

Bit from afar, huh? That brilliant red and brilliant yellow. Isn't that what marijuana looks like when it's growing?

[B]

I'm not sure you know what marijuana is. I'll show you a picture sometime.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. It is labeled a whole grain, though, because it's actually. It fits the whole grain definition because it is the whole grain seed which you're eating.

[A]

Yeah. Like, when you talk about grains, usually, again, you're talking about these things from grasses, like wheat, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's such a thing as whole grain wheat, but once we process something, once we mill it, or. Or shell it, smack it on the bottom, whatever you do to them, you're actually removing certain parts of the grain. Right. So with, like, enriched white flour, you've taken a whole wheat grain and you've removed the bran and the germ and you've just got yourself the endosperm still. And the endosperm is what's used mostly for. To produce white flour. And that's great. It's full of quick, easily digestible carbs. But a lot of the nutrients are lost, actually.

[B]

Not easily digestible for many people.

[A]

That's true, too. But a lot of the nutrients are lost in the process. So even if you can digest it, no problem, you're not getting most of the nutrients that were there in the first place. With a whole grain, it's got the bran, the germ and the endosperm, and they're all working together to make you vastly healthier than you would be if you're just eating the endosperm like you do in white. White flower.

[B]

Yeah. And quinoa in particular is. It's really weird when you look at it. It's closer. You wouldn't think so, but it's closer to chard and beets and spinach.

[A]

Right. The plant.

[B]

Than it is anything else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

So imagine if, like, from spinach plants, we got not only the leaves, but. But also the seeds turned out to be whole grains. That's what's going on. It's a weird plant.

[B]

It is.

[A]

It shouldn't grow where it grows. It shouldn't be a cereal, shouldn't be a grain. It shouldn't be related to beets.

[B]

It shouldn't be delicious, but it is. That's right. And it's super, super good for you. Like we were saying, it's a superfood. And one of the reasons, and another thing that makes it very strange is that it has a ton of protein, which is pretty unusual for a plant to have this much protein.

[A]

Yeah, this article made that point. But I went and looked. There's a lot of other plants that have pretty good amounts of protein in them.

[B]

What rivals quinoa in amounts?

[A]

Edamame, black beans, lima beans, chickpeas. All beat it by a mile. Yeah, I just thought it was weird because not only did this article say it, I ran across it elsewhere too, that they were like, this is. It's amazing how much protein it has in it. It has like a decent amount, especially for a plant, but just not like eye popping or anything like that, you know.

[B]

You think it's hyperbole.

[A]

I kind of poo pooed that one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What it does have, unless you think is not true as well.

[A]

Well, I'll be the judge of it.

[B]

At least 10amino acids. And that's good, right? Or is it bad too?

[A]

I guess it's okay.

[B]

No, it's chock full of amino acids, which is great for your body because our body cannot make amino acids so we have to get them from food sources.

[A]

Well, they. It can't make essential amino acids. It can make essential, non essential amino acids, but the essential ones we have to get from food. And quinoa is in a very small group of plants that are complete sources of protein. Meaning that they have all of the essential amino acids that we need in them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You don't find that in plants very frequently. No, that's what helps make it a superfood.

[B]

Exactly. It's not very high in calorie, no sugar, no cholesterol, no sodium. What else? Zinc.

[A]

It's got a lot of zinc. Has a lot of potassium too. Apparently it has the most potassium of any food plant that is around. Potassium is really good at regulating blood pressure because potassium's in charge of things like fluid retention and electrical conduction throughout cells.

[B]

I think just compared to grains. There are plenty of other fruits with potassium.

[A]

Oh, okay. Is that what it was?

[B]

Yeah. Like bananas are loaded with potassium.

[A]

Are they? Yeah. Or is that the work of Edward Bernays?

[B]

No, bananas are really good for you. What else? Fiber, magnesium, folate.

[A]

Yeah, that's good.

[B]

Gluten free.

[A]

Well, that's a big one, man. So it's very Commonly touted as a gluten free food grain, which is good for people who have celiac disease. But apparently they've tested. There's at least. What'd you say, 120, 150 varieties?

[B]

120, yeah.

[A]

That are in like agricultural production right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And somebody tested a bunch of them and they came up with like at least four that created a celiac response.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. So you got to be careful. For the most part they are gluten free, but they. There are a few varieties out there that can touch off the old celiac response.

[B]

Well, I think one of the deals, though is we're not seeing those in the marketplace though, which is one of the. We'll get to it. But it's one of the potential problems is we're only eating like three or four of the 120 varieties.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think those are for sure gluten free.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like if you go to your grocery store.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You're not gonna see 120 varieties of this stuff.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah, you're probably right.

[B]

All right, well, let's take a break and we're gonna get back and talk a little bit about cooking this delicious st. No. Stuff you should know. Stuff you should know.

[A]

So, Chuck, you're going to lay it on everybody. How to cook quinoa.

[B]

It's easy. If you can cook rice, you can cook quinoa.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I would say, well, it may be easier than rice.

[A]

I would say it's easier than rice. It doesn't stick like rice does.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

That's probably rice's biggest downfall.

[B]

The sticky. Yeah.

[A]

It's also what makes it great though, too.

[B]

Sure. Depending on what kind of rice you're getting. I eat quinoa at the house. I wouldn't say a lot, but enough, like every couple of weeks.

[A]

Oh, yeah, That's a lot, is it? Yeah, it is to me.

[B]

So what you do is you want to rinse it like you will some kinds of rice.

[A]

The bag you're buying is probably going to say pre rinsed or pre washed or something like that. You want to rinse it anyway, right?

[B]

Yeah. They have this. It's actually really good for you, this coating called saponin. And despite its great health effects, when you add water to it, it lathers up like a soap.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's bitter. Yeah. And in fact, it means it's from the Latin sapo, which is soap. So you don't want to eat it even though it's good for you.

[A]

No. The plant produces it to keep, like, pests away from it, from eating it.

[B]

Yeah. So you rinse that stuff off. Get quinoa. Once you see it, it's really tiny. So you want to get a really fine strainer. Not like a colander.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You get a colander, then all that quinoa is going to be.

[A]

Where'd my quinoa go?

[B]

Down the drain.

[A]

Man, I hate Mondays.

[B]

So get like, a sifter. Really fine sifter. Rinse it real good until the water's running clear, and basically cook it like rice. It's one part quinoa to 2 parts water or broth. Well, that's what I do. I use chicken broth.

[A]

Sure. You'd be a madman just to use.

[B]

Like, water and quinoa or veggie broth if you're, you know, weird or off the meat. I'm just kidding. Beef broth. If you're gross.

[A]

That doesn't pair well with quinoa. I could see it not.

[B]

I'm just not a big beef broth guy.

[A]

I love.

[B]

I might have said beef.

[A]

You did.

[B]

With a th.

[A]

Yeah, it was kind of cute.

[B]

Beef broth.

[A]

Beef broth. Barth.

[B]

But I use chicken. I use, like, half. So if I do the 2 cups of water, I'll do 1 cup water, 1 cup chicken broth.

[A]

Oh, you cut your chicken broth.

[B]

Yeah, I just kind of do half and half.

[A]

I gotcha. You stomp on it.

[B]

Yeah. So then you cook it like rice, like I said. You're gonna boil it, and then once it gets to a boil, cover it up, turn it down low, and wait and let it simmer until it's all soaked up.

[A]

Yeah. And then this article. I'm not as acquainted with cooking quinoa as you are, but this article says that you want to look for the spirals, the seed spirals, to be prominent. What's the deal with that?

[B]

You'll see. When you look at it, like, before you cook it, it looks different than afterward. And that's the easiest way to say it. Like, once you look, it's almost like they pop open or something. And it's just quite obvious. It's just big and light and fluffy. And you see the little seed spiral.

[A]

What's neat is. And we kind of walked past it, but you said it a couple of times, that. That saponin is good for you.

[B]

Really good for you.

[A]

Yeah. It has some amazing properties, like it's anti tumor, anti ulcer, anti inflammatory. And so you have to imagine, like, again, that this plant is Growing in this random place where plants aren't really supposed to grow and it thrives there and it's full of all these nutrients. And the outer coating is an anti inflammatory. Anti tumor agent.

[B]

Yeah. That you wash away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's kind of sad.

[A]

Well, you could save it, sip on it later. I wonder what would happen. Like, how would you have to ingest it, you think? Like, would it have any anti inflammatory properties if you like drank saponin, do you think? Or do you need to like inject it into your eye?

[B]

I don't know. Or mix it into a salve, maybe rub on your skin? Yeah, I'm not sure it's a good question. I bet people know we'll hear about.

[A]

That up in Bolivia. They know.

[B]

So you can eat it in a variety of ways. You can just eat it as a side dish like you would with rice or couscous or whatever. Mashed potatoes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Although I would eat the mashed potatoes.

[A]

You could mix it with mashed potatoes, right?

[B]

No, I wouldn't do that.

[A]

One, one thing that the author of this article, I think it's a Leah Hoyt, she said that she likes to mix it in instead of breadcrumbs into like meatballs or burgers. Sure, why not?

[B]

Yeah. A good quinoa burger. Yeah.

[A]

So is there such a thing as a quinoa burger that's just quinoa. Could you make that or do you need something to bind it?

[B]

I think you probably need binding agents or beef. Yeah. Beef broths or. I don't know. I've never made a quinoa burger and I don't make any kind of veggie burger by like in my home.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

So I wouldn't really know how to go about that.

[A]

What do you do turkey burgers or.

[B]

I do turkey.

[A]

Turkey burgers are pretty good, depending on the brand. Some are just like. What is this texture?

[B]

Yeah, I mean I make them myself with my own little recipe.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

But that's just because Emily doesn't eat beef. Beef. So I've gotten so into the turkey burger that I don't even really. I mean, I'll have a beef burger out, right? Never at home.

[A]

You and I are simpatico on the home burger cooking tip. Yeah.

[B]

Do you grill or do you skillet Foreman grill.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's pretty great.

[B]

That's a Buzzmart watch.

[A]

You watch that grease drip out of the front. And I've noticed many times, like, I will be zoned out, drooling grease out of my mouth.

[B]

So here's My favorite quinoa dish, and I got it from a restaurant in New York that I can't remember, but there are all kinds of variations. But I have it. I cook it and then put it in the fridge and chill it, like, overnight. So in the summer, I will get that cold quinoa and then dice up, like, some cucumber and some red onion and I mean, kind of anything you want, like, that fits a salad. Summer salad. Like, orange pepper, like crunchy green pepper or roasted red pepper.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's good.

[B]

Garlic. Throw some pine nuts in there.

[A]

I wish it were summer right now.

[B]

Like, you get some basil, some fresh herbs.

[A]

That's the way to go, man.

[B]

Yeah. Like, anything that strikes your fancy. Maybe a little lemon juice, a little apple cider vinegar.

[A]

But the base of it is quinoa.

[B]

Yeah. And you just mix up anything that you kind of, you know, might add some texture, like that crunch. And serve it alongside, like a burger instead of fries.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's really, really good. And you know me, I'm not into healthy foods like that a lot, which means it's good. Which means it's really good. Yeah.

[A]

And packed with protein, don't forget.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And it's a complete source of protein.

[B]

So that's my. Or maybe some dried cranberry or golden raisins.

[A]

I'm not big on that kind of stuff in the salad.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I know a lot of people like it. Not.

[B]

Yeah, no, I don't love the golden raisins, but I do like the cranberry.

[A]

Do you?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I think it's nice. All right, so that's Chuck's recipe of the week.

[A]

That's pretty good.

[B]

We'll do that every week, no matter what the topic is.

[A]

What are you going to come up with for the tardigrade?

[B]

Oh, just you wait. So here's the deal with quinoa. It's gotten really trendy. So in 2007, the United States was importing 7.3 million pounds of quinoa.

[A]

Right.

[B]

2012, they were imported. 57 million pounds. And God knows what it is this year.

[A]

You know, a lot of that was the direct result of a single person of Oprah. Yeah, it all comes down to Oprah. No, there is this dude. He was a UN development worker from Bolivia who'd moved to California, and. And he obviously grown up at least familiar with quinoa, if not eating quinoa. His name was Sergio Nunez D'Arco. And he saw that quinoa was starting to catch on a Little bit. I guess he saw that episode of Oprah. So he went back to Bolivia and he found that there were only a few indigenous producers who were putting out retail sized bags of quinoa. So he went around and he basically created a co op out of all the indigenous farmers who create grow quinoa in Bolivia and made the supply from them reliable enough and big enough to supply industry abroad around the world. This guy basically was the flashpoint for the quinoa explosion. He helped it happen and he made sure that it was based on the work of the people who were originally cultivating quinoa.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. Which is a big one.

[B]

Yeah. He went from. In 2005, he sold $25,000 worth through his company, and these days he's selling about $26 million worth annually from his own facility and about 40 million from other facilities. So he basically went around to them and said, hey, these weekend farmers markets are cute, but how would you like to be a part of the industrial food supply?

[A]

Yeah, you put down that pan flute. We're talking business here.

[B]

Did they play the pan flute?

[A]

Yeah, those Andean Highlanders, they love that.

[B]

They love that junk. Is that where Zamfir is from?

[A]

No, I think Zamfir is. I think he's Mediterranean.

[B]

I wanted to say Greek.

[A]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

[B]

Okay. I don't know if I'm getting he and Janny confused though.

[A]

Oh, yeah, maybe we are.

[B]

They seem like they probably at least go bowling together.

[A]

Janny didn't play the pan flute, though, did he?

[B]

No. No.

[A]

Okay. Sam Fear is definitely master of the pamphlet.

[B]

Well, of course, you can't call yourself that on a CD unless Oprah has said so.

[A]

Right. Has the stamp of approval.

[B]

So the price has really gone up too, as a result. And it was not small for a lot of years. One metric ton was about $500, and in 2010, that was $1,300. So that's almost threefold. And again, that was six years, almost seven years ago.

[A]

Yeah, it kept going up too. I think it peaked in 2012.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, the price went up quite a bit.

[B]

So you would think that's great. These farmers are making a ton of money now, right?

[A]

Yes, apparently. I don't know where it started, but somebody created some. I guess somebody wrote an article or started digging around and they said, hey, everybody, you guys are eating all this quinoa. Guess what you did. You drove up prices so much that the very indigenous people who have been cultivating this for thousands of years can't afford it anymore. So suck on that, hipster.

[B]

Right. Like the people of Fiji are exporting Fiji water, but they're all don't have clean drinking water themselves. That kind of same thing. Right.

[A]

It's basically an American pastime to take hipsters down a peg, isn't it? Is it seems like it anything hipsters, like, everybody goes to a lot of trouble to dig around and find what's wrong with it.

[B]

Yeah. Like the one thing they can trace back. There's gotta be blood on the hands somewhere. All right, well, let's take a break and we'll talk a little bit about what this all means and whether or not that's even true.

[A]

Right.

[B]

After this stuff you should know. Stuff you should know. All right. So if it's being produced in the Andes and prices are going up, you would think that at some point people in the United States might try and take a stab at it. And that's exactly what happened and is happening. And you sent this great article is quinoa. California farmers knew kale because kale had a similar explosion in popularity over the past few years.

[A]

Kale's so hot, right?

[B]

Yeah. I think kale is out now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or at least made fun of, I think, for being too hipster y and hot.

[A]

Yeah. I think the hipsters kind of chewed that up and spit it out. It's still great.

[B]

I know. People just hate all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, really? Just like, what's trending and what's not and what we think is cool. Let's write about it.

[A]

Right. And I read this really interesting article. I think it was a Mother Jones writer, like a Mother Jones ag writer, who basically said, like, hey, dudes, all of this stuff that, you know is suddenly like the hot new superfood.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's niche food marketing. It's the same thing as, like Oreos coming out with a new flavor every, like, couple months that you gotta go try or something like that.

[B]

Yeah. Like, you're just a sheep for kale, but.

[A]

Yeah. But geared toward people who don't eat junk food. But it's the same exact thing, so don't be a chump.

[B]

Yeah. Or at least don't get on your high horse about the other stuff being.

[A]

Mass marketed or being eaten by idiots and saps and simpletons.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So the thing is, the thing that made it even worse, though, was the idea that, like, the huge demand in the expanded market for quinoa that was largely found in the United States was directly responsible for. For pricing indigenous farmers who were growing that Quinoa out of it. So they weren't even eating it was the problem.

[B]

Well, supposedly.

[A]

Right. And what they found was that one, they couldn't afford it, they'd been priced out, or they were making the decision to where. Yeah, they're making more money now, but they would rather sell all their quinoa and buy less expensive, less nutrient dense food for their families. So the very people producing quinoa were not only couldn't afford it, they also were being malnourished as a result of this quinoa explosion.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was a big deal. It made a lot of people second guess it feel pretty bad about themselves. And I also guarantee it had a negative impact on the quinoa market as well.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Which would directly affect the farmers. But what you dug up though, on this NPR's the Salt, I guess blog, their food blog.

[B]

Yeah. There was a story about it attached to it as well.

[A]

It was pretty eye opening.

[B]

Yeah. These dudes got together and they were trying to get to kind of the root of all this. And so they got a data source, E. Naho. It's the national survey of Peru that they carry out every year about just Peruvian households and all kinds of data that they're collecting. But one of them is food and there are 22,000 randomly selected households. So they got 10 years worth of this data covering from before the quinoa boom, a few years before through the quinoa boom. So they could kind of do a good comparison.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they split the households into three groups. Those who grow and eat quinoa, those who eat it but don't grow it, and those who neither grow it nor.

[A]

Eat it, they say bleh.

[B]

Yeah, I guess the final household is people that pronounce it quinoa. There's like one household in Peru, it's like, what is this stuff? And they all three showed a clear rise in their welfare, which they measured as the total value of goods consumed as that price of quinoa rose. And apparently that reflected in the increased living standards in Peru as a whole too. So at the height of that boom, the welfare of the growers increased more rapidly than the other two groups though.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which you would, you know, that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah. And so you can. They basically tracked a direct correlation between the quinoa boom around the world and a rise in the household welfare of quinoa farmers back in Peru. So they conclusively prove pretty much that there was no. That these farmers weren't too poor to afford quinoa. But the other one was still left standing.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

The idea that they were selling all their quinoa, but then they were still malnourished because they were buying less nutritionally dense food.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that apparently they managed to disprove as well.

[B]

Yeah. At least that's what they're saying in this paper. I mean, we're not saying this is 100% evidence, but at least this is what they dug out after pouring over these 10 years worth of studies. They said this guy, Andrew Stevens, a doctoral candidate, focused on specifically the Puno region in the Andes, which grows about 80% of all the quinoa in Peru. And he said this is a. It's a cultural and nutritionally important food, but it's not. I think the gist was people are trying to make it out to be like this is what they subsist on every day, and they can't afford to eat it. And he said this is actually a pretty small part of their diet overall, and they're actually eating more quinoa than ever before in that region that grows the most.

[A]

That was pretty surprising.

[B]

So it said they did not cut back their consumption between 2004 and 2012, despite a fourfold price increase. They see no signs of change in calories, proteins, or carbohydrates in the diet across Peru as a whole.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So they kind of debunked it.

[A]

Yeah. Pretty cool.

[B]

Hipsters rejoice.

[A]

They shall rejoice. But there are still some outstanding problems, Right?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So, like you said, it was a. You said that guy mentioned it was a culturally important food. So much so that Bolivia, in its drafted 2009 constitution, enshrined quinoa as part of their food sovereignty, which is their right to protect culturally important food.

[B]

Yeah. Like, hey, you're coming in here and you're basically taking this, and now you're going to grow it all over the world.

[A]

Right. And they recognized the importance of quinoa for a very long time. There was apparently a Colorado researcher who went to Bolivia in 1986 and was shot dead trying to smuggle quinoa seeds out of the country.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I guess somebody from Colorado eventually got him out because Colorado State University patented a hybrid quinoa in 1994 based on Bolivian seeds. And the government of Bolivia called them bio pirates.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Yeah. That's not something you want leveled at you. No, not by Bolivia.

[B]

The other thing, too, and I think you sent me this, was that because there's more. Basically, there's sort of a land grab going on.

[A]

Yeah. This is where I was going in.

[B]

Peru, where all of a sudden they realized that, you know, before when it wasn't worth that much money, they. I mean, sure, they were producing it, but it wasn't like it is now. So all these people are saying, wait, this. This land that was once unused, like, is anyone claiming it? And there's sort of a rush to claim these lands.

[A]

Well, there was fighting going on. Yeah. There was violence that broke out in February of, I think, 2015, maybe 2014, where one guy got his arm blown off by dynamite during this battle among hundreds of farmers for some land that had been sitting there abandoned for, like, decades. And part of the problem is when you're doing good agricultural practices. What did we talk about? No till farming in.

[B]

I was thinking that, too. I can't remember.

[A]

We've definitely talked a lot about that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when you're using good agricultural practices, one of the main things you want to do is let fields lay fallow for a year, season at a time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're not doing that anymore in the Andes. And again, this is really, really fragile cropland that they're growing this stuff in, so they're not letting it lay fallow any longer. And they're also using llamas less.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And llamas and quinoa go together like rice and beans, which, by the way, is another complete protein food, but it's not just a single food, so you.

[B]

Can'T really call it a superfood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, man. What was that episode? It's totally on the tip of my tongue.

[A]

We talked a lot about no till. No till farming.

[B]

I can't remember. I want to say it had something to do with the dust bowl, but we didn't do one on the dust bowl yet.

[A]

We did. We did one on the dust bowl. And desertification, maybe. It was the dust bowl. Yeah. Good one.

[B]

Yeah. So the llamas, that's one of the big issues, right, is that they're not letting them poop everywhere.

[A]

Well, they're not llama farming like they used to. Llamas use a lot of grazing land, and they're like, we can use that instead to grow quinoa, because quinoa is.

[B]

More valuable than llamas.

[A]

Right. But llamas, again, and quinoa go together like rice and beans. And llama poop is almost like it's designed or tailored to fertilize quinoa. They started to use sheep poop instead, I guess, imported sheep poop. And it allows a lot more pests and invasive weeds than Llama poop does, right. When llama poop is fertilizing. So the whole ecosystem is definitely being altered. Yeah. And not necessarily in good ways because of this huge demand and this huge influx of cash. It's basically more money, more problems. The Alto Plano's people are finding out.

[B]

It's so weird, or not weird, but kind of sad that you can't, you know, it can't just be a success story. Never is, you know, Gotta have the.

[A]

Good with the bad, I guess in the long run.

[B]

They're also worried that I was talking about all those different varieties. I saw the 120, but it says here there could be up to thousands of different varieties.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And farmers are abandoning most of these to concentrate on the ones that they can sell to, you know, ship out to export to American markets or I guess just, you know, not just America. I think Europe is eating this stuff like crazy too.

[A]

Are they?

[B]

Yeah, but it says that those varieties are. This guy says that they're the future of quinoa because they can adapt to things like climate change. And if you narrow the varieties down to a certain few and they don't adapt, then you're kind of screwed.

[A]

Yeah, you're SOL. If you have 3,000 to choose from to try to adapt to changing climate, then yeah, you're way better off. So crop diversity is pretty important, but yeah, that's getting erased as well.

[B]

Yeah, well, they're trying to encourage it with these Andean farmers at least. They are working with Bolivia and Peru to develop internal markets for these threatened varieties, like with school food programs and stuff, like not necessarily to sell, but to use like within the country at hospitals and schools. They said they've been fairly successful with some of that stuff, so hopefully that continues.

[A]

See that, to me, that's what government subsidies are for, stuff like that, for like small indigenous farmers who are protecting thousand year old varieties of crops that are part of the cultural fabric of a country.

[B]

Yeah. And for the future, for all.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

They are growing in California though. That article you sent, this dude is growing it in.

[A]

In the Sonoran Desert.

[B]

Crazy. In the Imperial Valley, below sea level, in like one of the hottest places in North America.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're growing quinoa.

[A]

Yeah, well, part of the problem is quinoa is very closely related. I think it's in the same genus as something called lamb's quarters. Yeah, that's the weed, which doesn't really matter up in the Alto Plano, but in California, lambs quarters is a toxic plant to livestock, which might Accidentally graze on it because they're not thinking about that kind of stuff. And then it also carries a virus that kills alfalfa, which is very much grown in California to feed that livestock, man. So there's. It's a. It's weird. It's a complex, amazing plant that shouldn't exist. Quinoa.

[B]

Yeah, Maybe that'll be the title. Quinoa Colonial Complex. More complex than you think.

[A]

Oh, that's a good one.

[B]

Or maybe it should say, well, never mind. I'll figure that out. Or should we just brainstorm some more on show titles?

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

Are we gonna try the Soylent?

[A]

Yes, let's.

[B]

And then do listener mail.

[A]

Yeah, let's do that.

[B]

All right.

[A]

So here we are. We're gonna try this.

[B]

Yeah. Soylent. Is it a white bottle?

[A]

We caught a lot of flack about not having tried it and still done something. I'm like, well, here we go then. I'm not iridescent, but I've done an episode on iridescence. Give me a break, people.

[B]

I think you should probably shake. Well, right?

[A]

I think so. I don't know. We gotta go back and listen to the episode again. It's been a while.

[B]

People also thought that that was a sponsored episode by Soylent, and I was like, I think we said enough bad things about the taste that you should have figured out that it was not.

[A]

All right, here we go. So this is us trying Soylent. We also want to say thanks again to Don Kent for sending this in.

[B]

It smells like.

[A]

Oh, that's a nice. Kind of a nice smell.

[B]

What does that smell like? Smells like cereal milk.

[A]

We got that a lot. A lot of people said it smelled like or it tastes like Cheerios. Milk.

[B]

That's totally what it smells like.

[A]

Can we say Cheerios, or is this an episode for Cheerios Now?

[B]

All right, I'm gonna. Should we do it at the same time?

[A]

1. I thought we were chugging the whole thing.

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, that's. That's not bad. It is.

[B]

It's not bad at all.

[A]

100% Cheerio cereal milk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think I. I would have come up with that even if somebody hadn't said it. This is good.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's sort of bland. It's not definitely bland. It's not nearly as sweet. It's not like a honey nut. Cheerio milk.

[A]

No, that's true. Or cinnamon toast crunch milk.

[B]

That's not bad. I was dreading this. I thought it was gonna be awful from all the comments, but that's not bad at all.

[A]

I like it. I can see how you would kind of start to crave it because it's got that like almost a fatty mouth feel to it. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like it really gets on the tongue. Huh.

[B]

All right, well, there it is.

[A]

I should probably stop. It's pretty. It's got a lot of calories in it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's 20% of your daily nutrition.

[A]

Well, thanks again to Don Kent. Thanks again to everybod who wrongly called us out for doing an ad for Soylent.

[B]

The aftertaste is a little bit like milk of magnesia.

[A]

I'm not getting that.

[B]

Like Mylana.

[A]

Yeah, no, I know.

[B]

You mean kind of chalky.

[A]

I don't have that.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

If you want to know more about Soylent, go listen to the Soylent sub. In the meantime, if you want to know more about quinoa, type that word Q U I N O A into the search bar howstuffworks.com and since I said search bar, it's time for more Soylent. I mean, it's time for listening.

[B]

All right, I'm gonna call. Yeah, I definitely don't like the aftertaste. It sounded sort of chalking up on my throat and tongue.

[A]

I kind of like this stuff. I like food more, but that's not bad. Sure. Like, if somebody said, should I drink Soylent? I'd say, why not?

[B]

All right, I'm gonna call this just a nice email from this lovely Australian woman. Hey, guys. Been a long time listener, first time writer, currently living in Sydney, Australia, though I grew up in Tennessee and now I'm a Florida resident all over the place. Wow. So maybe she's not Australian. I've been listening to y'all y'all since I was in college at utk. Go Vols. And I even brought you along with me while spending a year living in France. If you do end up reading this on the air, which I don't expect, I would be so thrilled if you gave a shout out to my little sister, lb, currently in Portland. What's up, lb?

[A]

She just used a little reverse psychology on you there.

[B]

Yeah, she did. Anytime we make a road trip, we put on stuff you should know which incites a groan from her every time. It's the chit chat that bugs her. We just gave her a shout out.

[A]

Yeah. Awesome. She's not the only person to feel that way.

[B]

Alright, to get to the point, I was listening to the Dictators episode and was so excited to hear you talking about Lucius Cornelius Sulla in fact, that's my grandmother's maiden name. We pronounce it Suella, but whoever knows if that's the true pronunciation? Her family is from southern Italy and immigrated from Naples about 100 years ago. She recently went on a trip to Italy and studied up on her ancestor Suella and even visited a lot of the sites inscribed with his name.

[A]

That's pretty cool.

[B]

It's amazing to see a piece of your family history show up on your favorite podcast, even if it is about dictators. It gave me a chuckle. Thanks for keeping me entertained. Just recently caught up to all the episodes on itunes. I know, I know. There are much more, many more on your website.

[A]

Wow, she is a listener, huh?

[B]

She is. And that's Sarah right now in Sydney.

[A]

Thanks a lot, Sarah. Appreciate that. So wait, is she from Australia or she's just living in Australia now?

[B]

I think she's just living there.

[A]

Okay, got it. If you want to let us know about your world travels and all that jazz like Sarah did, you can send us an email the stuff podcast at how stuff works.com and as always, join us at our home on the web. Stuff you should know.com.

[B]

Stuff you should should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.