Short Stuff: Battle of Itter Castle

Summary

Stuff You Should Know – Short Stuff: Battle of Itter Castle

Date: December 17, 2025
Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This “Short Stuff” episode dives into the incredible and little-known story of the Battle of Itter Castle, an extraordinary World War II event in Austria's Tyrolean region. It's often described as “the strangest battle of WWII”: Americans, German Wehrmacht soldiers (turned against the Nazis), French VIP prisoners, and assorted others fought together against the Waffen SS just days before Germany’s surrender. Josh and Chuck agree: “This should be a movie.” The gripping story is told with the hosts' signature humor, wide-ranging tangents, and cinematic flair.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Was the Battle of Itter Castle?

• Setting & Significance
  • Castle Itter is a medieval structure in Tyrol, Austria, with its current form dating from 1878. (04:11)
  • After Germany annexed Austria (1938), the Nazis requisitioned the castle. By 1943, it became a VIP prison annexed to Dachau concentration camp for high-value prisoners—French statesmen, generals, and even Charles de Gaulle's sister. (04:51)

“It is a really unusual battle in that Germans got together with Americans and French and fought the Nazis.” — Josh Clark [02:58]

• The War’s Endgame
  • The battle occurred at the very end of WWII in Europe, with Hitler dead, Mussolini executed, and Germany’s surrender imminent. (05:20)

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2. The Prisoners & Their Predicament

• The VIP prisoners included:
  • Two French generals, two former French prime ministers, a famous tennis star-turned-politician, and de Gaulle's sister.
• Other inmates included Czechs and Yugoslavians.
• As the Nazis retreated and Dachau was liberated:
  • The maniacal Dachau commandant Eduard Weiter, responsible for mass executions, arrived at Itter Castle before killing himself. (06:32)
  • Guards abandoned the castle, leaving prisoners stranded, fearing nearby SS intent on a violent last stand. (07:24)

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3. The Call for Help

• Escape and First Contact

  • A brave Yugoslavian handyman made a dangerous solo journey through war-torn territory to alert approaching American forces, led by Major John T. Kramer. (07:24)
  • Major Kramer, defying “legal” zones of operation, sends a small tank detachment for a rescue. (08:15)
  • “...he said there will be a podcaster one day that will coin the term nuts to that. But I'm gonna say it right now.” — Chuck [08:15]

• Second Attempt

  • Unaware of the handyman’s fate, the castle’s cook sets off next. He finds Major Josef “Sepp” Gangl, a German officer disillusioned with the Nazis, now leading anti-Nazi Wehrmacht soldiers. (11:05)
  • Gangl teams up with Captain Jack C. Lee, Jr., commander of the tank 'Besotten Jenny' and a detachment that included Company D, 17th Armored Infantry (all-Black U.S. troops). (11:57)

“This is not some obvious platoon … it’s just a group of people who almost were like, yeah, I want to go get those people out of that castle.” — Josh Clark [12:28]

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4. The Siege of Itter Castle

• Waffen SS Attack
  • The ragtag defenders arrived 12 hours before the Waffen SS started their siege—roughly 100 elite SS troops. (13:08)
  • The attackers quickly disabled the castle’s only tank. The defenders, outgunned, held pistols and rifles. (13:59)

“This is like a medieval siege that’s going on, but with modern armory, right?” — Josh Clark [13:59]

• Running Low on Hope
  • As ammo grew scarce, things looked dire.
  • Gangl, the German anti-Nazi hero, was killed by a sniper while assessing the battle. (14:59)

“He turncoated against the Nazis, he’s doing the right thing. … Just like a movie scene—he’s up on the top, trying to get an assessment … and gets taken out by a sniper.”—Chuck Bryant [15:18]

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5. The Cavalry Arrives

• Climax & Rescue
  • As the defense seemed doomed, Major Kramer's U.S. tank column arrived, flanking the SS and scattering them. The siege ended. (16:33)
  • Notably, Gangl was the only fatality among the rescuers and rescued.

“Supposedly Kramer got to the castle, met up with Captain Lee, and Lee said, ‘What kept you?’” — Chuck Bryant [17:06]
“That was a quote from Lee later on recounting it.” — Josh Clark [17:18]

• Aftermath
  • Captain Jack Lee was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross and lived into the 1970s. (17:56)
  • The French generals and VIPs were saved—an almost entirely happy ending.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Cinematic Quality

  • “I’m only gonna say this at the beginning, but boy oh boy. This should be a movie.” — Chuck Bryant [02:23]
  • “Yeah, really great cinematic story in every way.” — Josh Clark [02:29]

• On the Unlikeliness of the Team-Up

  • “It was a real motley crew, real ragtag group.” — Chuck Bryant [03:22]

• Authenticity and Humor

  • “Tell the Nazis I said, second…” — Chuck Bryant (mocking overwrought movie death lines) [15:35]
  • “Major Lee lived to be an old man … He was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for this amazing…” — Josh Clark [17:56]

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Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:23] Movie Potential — Hosts marvel at the battle’s cinematic story.
• [04:11] Castle History — Nazis convert Itter Castle into VIP prison.
• [06:32] Dachau Commandant Arrives — Eduard Weiter’s dramatic suicide, prisoners’ panic grows.
• [07:24] Guards Flee & Rescue Mission Begins — Handyman escapes, fetches Americans.
• [11:05] Anti-Nazi German Joins — Sepp Gangl teams up with Captain Lee.
• [13:08] Siege Starts — Waffen SS attack; tank destroyed; medieval-style defensive stand.
• [14:59] Gangl Killed — Gangl shot by sniper.
• [16:33] Rescue Arrives — Major Kramer’s column breaks the siege.
• [17:06] Dramatic Reunification Quote — “What kept you?”—the perfect movie line.

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Tone & Style

• Lighthearted and conversational, but respectful of the gravity of the events.
• Infused with pop culture references and comedic asides, especially imagining the battle as a classic war movie.

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Conclusion

This episode compellingly tells the tale of the improbable siege and rescue at Itter Castle—a “movie out the yin yang,” as the hosts say. It’s a fascinating moment where former enemies banded together, a “ragtag motley crew” resisting the last gasp of Nazi violence. Only one defender—Sepp Gangl, the unlikely German hero—was killed, and the happy ending reads straight out of Hollywood, yet it’s all historical fact.

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For a quick cinematic, comedic, and informative retelling of this untold WWII tale, this SYSK Short Stuff is a can’t-miss listen.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Josh Clark]

Hey and welcome to the Shortstop. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry sitting in for Dave, which makes this an official short stuff. Don't accept substitutes.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And I'm only gonna say this at the beginning, but boy oh boy. This should be a movie. This episode.

[Josh Clark]

It's insane that it's not.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Really great cinematic story in every way. The way it, you know, is laid out there, you know.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. The Battle of Castle Ytter. Would it be Itter or Iter?

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, here we go. We already don't know what to call.

[Josh Clark]

It, so we're gonna call it Yter, after John Ritter. But it's also called Schlossitter, which is Castle, and it's located in Austria, in the Tyrolean region of Austria. And the reason why it's significant is two, it's one of the last battles of the European theater of World War II. Like, I can't name any other battles after it, but that doesn't really mean that much. And then the second reason is because it is a really unusual battle in that Germans got together with Americans and French and fought the Nazis in this battle.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And other randos from different places, like Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. Like, it was a. Like you mentioned a real motley crew, real ragtag group. Yeah, but you didn't put both them lounce. You got to put it over the O too.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I didn't. Oh, I'm sorry, man. I screwed up.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was pretty great. Everyone. Josh put this together and he typed out Motley Crue, and he put umlauts over the U. Just clearly as a little love letter to me.

[Josh Clark]

It was.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I got it.

[Josh Clark]

But I'm sorry I screwed up the love letter.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, it's fine. It's the thought that counts. That's what they say, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, but that's really patronizing.

[Chuck Bryant]

What if this was the very last battle? That makes it even more cinematic.

[Josh Clark]

I mean, that's what I read. It was like one of the last. And that could just be somebody hedging, you know, and it could have been the last one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. All right, so this castle sitting up there since the 13th century, since 1878, it's been kind of in its present form, and it's been a bunch of things. It was a private estate for a while. It was a hotel for a while. But notably for our story, after the Nazis annexed Austria in 1938, they took it over. And a few Years later, in 1943, it became part of Dachau, you know, the death camp. And it served as a sort of a VIP prison for some high value prisoners of war that they thought could. Like, we're not going to put these people to death. We think we might be able to use them as hostages. So we'll hold them up in this castle.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And there were some, like, real VIPs in there. There were two French generals, two former French prime ministers.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

A tennis star who'd become a politician, and one of the sisters of Charles de Gaulle, who was like. I guess he was the head of the military in World War II. Correct. Or was he the. No, he was the current prime minister. Right. In exile.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, I thought he just built the airport.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Hand by hand. But that was a side project that he did on weekends. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

There were also, like you said, some Czech prisoners, some Yugoslavian prisoners, and they were there for a couple of years. And In May of 1945, the beginning of May 1945, the war was not just starting to wind down, it was coming to, like a. Like a car smashing into a tree kind of stop because Hitler had just killed himself in Berlin. Mussolini had been strung up and hung out to dry, literally, by partisans in Italy. And it was just very clear that Germany had lost World War II and the European theater was coming to an end.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's right. They were literally about to offer up their formal surrender. But if you're in this castle, you're a little worried, because the ss, at this point, there's some SS that are like, hey, you know, we're going to lay down our arms. The war is clearly over. Let's just get this over with. There's other SS that are like, nine. I'm going to go down in a. In a blaze of glory and kill everyone that I can. But before they formally called this thing over. And so if you were in this castle as a VIP prisoner, you were worried that they were going to be coming for you, and they found out that that was true.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So one of the things that really unsettled them is on May 2, the Butcher of Dachau, the guy who ran the prison camp, Eduard Witter, he showed up at the castle because, remember, this is like an annex of the Dachau prison system. And he was on the run from the Allies, who had just liberated the camp right after he'd escaped. But being a horrible, terrible Nazi, as all Nazis are, he ordered the execution of 2,000 prisoners on his way out the door. The people at Castle Itter had heard about this. I mean, it's kind of a big deal even in World War II, even in Germany. And the fact that Witter showed up, they're like, well, this is it for us. But instead, Witter took his own life. He shot himself in the heart. That didn't work. So then he shot himself in the head. While he had shot himself in the heart.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So he really finished the job, I guess they were briefly relieved and they were like, oh, well, thank God. But a couple of days after that, the commandment of the castle and all the guards, they left. And so all of a sudden all these people are trapped in this castle, these prisoners. There's no way to get out. Even if they could get out, they know that there are probably hostile Germans nearby and they don't want to meet up with them. So a handyman, a Yugoslavian handyman in the castle said, you know what, I'm going to make a run for it, you guys, and I'm going to go and try and meet up with the American troops that are coming our way and see if I can get us some help and rescue. He did make it to the Americans, which is again, this is a movie. It's like an amazing success story that he found the Americans and didn't get shot. Yeah. And the Americans were like, hey, listen, man, legally the war's not quite over. We're not allowed to be in that area yet. But they were led by Major John T. Kramer and he said there will be a podcaster one day that will coin the term nuts to that. But I'm gonna say it right now. Let's send a small detachment of tanks that way and see if we can help those guys out.

[Josh Clark]

I can't take credit for that. I learned that from Grandpa and Simpsons.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, is that him?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. That's funny. So, yeah, Major John Kramer says, we're going to go help you guys. And he leads a column of tanks over. He turns the steering wheels and heads them toward Castle Itter. And I say we take a break here because I think it's a pretty good spot.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, let's do it. Sysk. You should know Sysk.

[Josh Clark]

Josh Clark.

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Support for this show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, buys one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.comsysk and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.comsysk paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures.

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[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so meanwhile, back at the castle, these prisoners, they don't know what's happened to this Yugoslavian handyman that went for help. Cause obviously it's, you know, he can't send word back. So another volunteer stepped forward. This is the cook of the castle. And he said, all right, I'm gonna try and go get help. He finds, oh, God, this is such a movie. He finds a German major, Sepp Ganglion. And this guy, you said, you know, all Nazis were terrible. I guess you would call him almost a former Nazi, because he was one of the dudes that was like, no, this is what we're doing isn't right. So he broke with the ss. He was leading a little group of allied friendly troops. So he was a complete turncoat. And he said, all right, let's get together and go get these prisoners. Like, we finally have a job to do. Like, you know, Guns of the Navarone style. Let's go save these prisoners.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So Gangle's on his way now to Castle Itter. And on the way, he runs into a tank commander and his tank, the Besotten Jenny is the name of the tank. And the commander's name is Jack C. Lee, Jr. Captain. And Gangl tells him what's going on. And Jack C. Lee says, you know, sir, I'd really like to take part in that. Let's go. So he grabs a few members of his company, a few members of a nearby, all black Company d of the 17th Armored Infantry Battalion and stuff. Yeah. All played by Jim Brown in different disguises. And then he puts them all together and he and Gangle and their ragtag group of people start moving toward Castle Itter. And this is not like some sort. First of all, this isn't sanctioned. This is not like some obvious platoon that's already been assembled. Like, this is just a group of people who almost were like, yeah, I want to go get those people out of that castle. And they said, come on. And this is the group that's moving toward Castle Itter. And they finally get there, I think about 12 hours before the siege finally began on the castle.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, so they suspected there were Germans coming their way. And they were right. The Waffen ss, they were the combat detachment of the ss. Really bad dudes, very elite fighters. They arrive at the castle, like you said, about 12 hours after this ragtag group is there to defend them. And they take out Basat and Jinny. Right away, they take out that tank. It was a pretty smart move, I guess, to go ahead and get the heavy artillery down. It was parked in front of the main gate. So with that tank gone, they were basically fully free to just assault this castle outright. And a battle starts, like a really gruesome battle. They, inside the prison, they had broken to the armory. So they had some stuff to defend themselves with, like pistols, some rifles and machine guns. But this was. These are pistols and machine guns and rifles, not heavy artillery, which is kind of what they needed at that point.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I think The Nazis had some 80 millimeter gun that they were using to pound the castle walls. This is like a medieval siege that's going on, but with modern armory, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And at first, like, it looked like, okay, the people in the castle might be able to hold this off. There's like a hundred Waffen SS attacking them. But then they started to run low on ammunition. And it doesn't really matter what kind of gun you have, if you don't have bullets to shoot out of it, you're in trouble if the people who you're fighting do still have bullets. And so by noon, it was starting to look really grim. And also by this time, Gangl had been killed by a Nazi sniper. And I saw that Jack Lee, Captain Lee, was already the de facto commander. Even the two French generals were deferring to his command. But he was kind of co. Commanding with Gangl. Now he was alone, commanding this whole thing by himself. And he came up with a plan basically to hide everybody in the castle keep.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I really felt bad for Gangl because he turncoated against the Nazis. He's doing the right thing. He brought them there and just Like a movie scene. He's up on the top, like, trying to get an assessment of the situation and gets taken out by a sniper. It's like such a powerful movie scene, you know?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. The only thing about it you would have to change is that he was probably killed instantly. He would have to have been shot somewhere where he could tell. Lead. Yeah, yeah, get him. Get these people out of here alive.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Tells him, I said.

[Josh Clark]

Tell the Nazis I said, second, There's.

[Chuck Bryant]

There's a really funny. Oh, yeah, who cares? I'll go a little long. There's a really funny Dana Gould comedy bit about his plan on his deathbed is to say, you know, I've buried a million dollars, and it's located at.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, man.

[Chuck Bryant]

And that's kind of funny. But the real punchline they see is, like, you got to time it just right.

[Josh Clark]

He.

[Chuck Bryant]

He said, otherwise you just have to lay there and pretend you're dead for the remaining minutes of your life. That's pretty good stuff.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's great stuff.

[Chuck Bryant]

The great Dana Gould. All right, so Gangl is taken out. Lee comes up with that plan to get holed up in the keep, which is what a keep is for. That's where you take your last stand in a castle. So it's not a bad plan. He was like, hey, let's feed this SS into that narrow passage that leads to the keep and just see if we can pick them off one by one as they come in there.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And it's not a bad plan, but the chances of anyone in the castle surviving during that plan is pretty low. And then, just as things were at their most hopeless. Seriously, this is how it happened. That column of tanks that was originally contacted by the Yugoslavian handyman who first made a run for it, led by Major Kramer, show up and they flank the Nazis or attack the Nazis from the rear and just immediately scatter the people besieging this castle, and the battle ends almost immediately.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And, oh, man, if this is true, then it just writes itself because supposedly Kramer got to the castle, met up with Captain Lee, and Lee said, what kept you?

[Josh Clark]

That was a quote from Lee later on recounting it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I would punch that up to what took you so long?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

With like a little wink or something, but. And then maybe they fall in love.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And Kramer responds with traffic.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man, that's so perfect. You know, very sadly. Well, I mean, I guess it's good news that Gonggo was the only casualty. It's sad that that was him again, because he was pretty brave for going against his own kind. But he was the only casualty out of all of that in this ragtag group. Held off this force until the reinforcements arrived. Like, happy ending.

[Josh Clark]

Major Lee lived to be an old man. I think he died in the 70s. And he was awarded the Distinguished Service.

[Chuck Bryant]

Cross for this amazing.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, yeah, you're right. This is movie stuff, like out the Yin Yang. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Out the Yin Yang.

[Josh Clark]

Which means, of course, short stuff is Out.

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