Stuff You Should Know: Short Stuff – Devil Horns Episode Summary

Release Date: August 13, 2025
Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant
Podcast: Stuff You Should Know by iHeartPodcasts

Introduction to the Devil Horns Sign

[00:38] Josh Clark:
Josh opens the episode with enthusiasm, introducing the topic: the iconic devil horns hand sign, a staple in the metal community. He highlights its deep association with metal music and sets the stage for an exploration of its origins and cultural significance.

Historical Origins and Misconceptions

[00:59] Chuck Bryant:
Chuck begins by explaining the traditional use of the hand sign, clarifying that its original meaning is quite different from its metal connotation. “When you're at a metal show doing this, you are, you know, what you're really doing is just a fun thing where you're like, this band rocks. ... it’s known as a corna, which is Italian for horn. It is what you do in old Italy ... to ward off the evil eye. It’s like, no, get the evil out,” he explains ([01:17]).

[02:07] Josh Clark:
Josh adds, “All of the metal fans are like, oh, that's the problem. That's why Satan never shows up. We've been doing this wrong” ([02:16]), highlighting the common misconception among metal enthusiasts regarding the sign's origins.

Ronnie James Dio’s Role in Popularizing

[02:17] Chuck Bryant:
Chuck transitions to the commonly held belief that Ronnie James Dio popularized the sign within the metal community. He notes, “Most people trace it back to Dio, Ronnie James Dio ... he took over as the frontman, which is a cool way of saying lead singer for Black Sabbath” ([02:16]).

[03:07] Josh Clark:
Josh delves deeper into Dio’s contribution, mentioning his evolution from bands like Elf and Rainbow to Black Sabbath, and how Dio needed a unique hand signal since Ozzy Osbourne used the double peace sign, leading Dio to adopt the devil horns ([03:07]).

Alternative Origins: Gene Simmons and Others

[04:36] Josh Clark:
Josh brings up Gene Simmons of KISS, who claimed involvement with the sign. “Gene Simmons really outed himself as a dipstick... he tried to trademark his trademark hand sign...” ([04:40]). He criticizes Simmons for attempting to trademark what is essentially a gesture from American Sign Language, undermining its cultural authenticity.

[08:12] Chuck Bryant:
Chuck introduces Geezer Butler from Black Sabbath, who allegedly used the sign before Dio: “He said, hey, look at our photo from 1969. I'm flashing this sign... I actually suggested that he do it” ([08:12]).

Coven and Jinkx Dawson’s Contribution

[08:56] Josh Clark:
Josh reveals a fascinating twist in the hand sign’s history, crediting Jinkx Dawson of the band Coven as the true originator. “It was probably a blonde 18-year-old American girl named Jinkx Dawson who was the lead singer of a band called Coven...” ([08:56]).

[09:16] Chuck Bryant:
Chuck questions how Coven’s use fits into the metal narrative, noting their music wasn’t traditionally metal but was steeped in dark, occult themes: “It didn't seem even spooky” ([09:18]).

[10:01] Josh Clark:
Josh elaborates on Coven’s 1969 album Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls, highlighting song titles like “Black Sabbath” and “For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge” as evidence of their satanic imagery ([10:01]).

[11:20] Chuck Bryant:
Chuck emphasizes the intentional use of the sign by Coven, pointing out its deliberate presence on album art: “It is very clear. It's not an accident. It's very much on purpose” ([11:20]).

[12:06] Josh Clark:
Josh underscores the simultaneous emergence of Coven and Black Sabbath, suggesting a potential overlap in their use of satanic imagery, though denying direct influence: “Black Sabbath has always maintained this as just some spooky coincidence” ([12:06]).

Cultural Variations: Japanese Metal’s Kitsune Sign

[13:27] Josh Clark:
Josh introduces the Japanese variation of the hand sign, known as the Kitsune sign, which resembles a fox’s face. “In Japan, if you go to a metal concert... you will see something similar to a devil sign... making a face of a fox” ([13:23]).

[14:01] Chuck Bryant:
Chuck shares a personal moment of realization while mimicking the Kitsune sign, appreciating its cultural uniqueness: “I was like, oh, yeah, look at that little fox” ([14:01]).

Recent Updates and Reflections

[14:15] Chuck Bryant:
Transitioning to recent events, Chuck updates listeners on Ozzy Osbourne’s passing, reflecting on his legacy and impact on the metal community: “RIP Ozzy Osbourne, one of the metal greats” ([15:12]).

[15:11] Josh Clark:
Josh shares a poignant moment from Ozzy’s final performance, highlighting the emotional significance: “...Ozzy practically passed away on stage... it’s quite stirring” ([15:18]).

Conclusion

In this episode of Short Stuff: Devil Horns, Josh and Chuck delve deep into the origins and evolution of the devil horns hand sign, unraveling its historical roots, debunking common misconceptions, and shedding light on its cultural variations. From its Italian origins as a protective gesture to its adoption and popularization by metal icons like Ronnie James Dio, and further exploration into the contributions of bands like Coven, the hosts provide a comprehensive overview. They also honor the legacy of Ozzy Osbourne, reflecting on his influence in the metal world. This engaging discussion not only educates listeners about a ubiquitous symbol in metal culture but also celebrates the rich history and community that surrounds it.

Notable Quotes:

• Chuck Bryant [01:17]: “It’s known as a corna, which is Italian for horn. It is what you do in old Italy ... to ward off the evil eye. It’s like, no, get the evil out.”

• Josh Clark [02:16]: “All of the metal fans are like, oh, that's the problem. That's why Satan never shows up. We've been doing this wrong.”

• Chuck Bryant [04:16]: “Gene Simmons really outed himself as a dipstick... he tried to trademark his trademark hand sign.”

• Josh Clark [08:56]: “It was probably a blonde 18-year-old American girl named Jinkx Dawson who was the lead singer of a band called Coven.”

• Chuck Bryant [11:20]: “It is very clear. It's not an accident. It's very much on purpose.”

• Josh Clark [13:23]: “In Japan, if you go to a metal concert... you will see something similar to a devil sign... making a face of a fox.”

• Chuck Bryant [15:40]: “RIP Ozzy Osbourne, one of the metal greats.”

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the "Short Stuff: Devil Horns" episode, providing listeners with an informative and engaging overview of the discussion surrounding the devil horns sign in metal culture.