Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps

Summary

Stuff You Should Know – Episode Summary: "Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps"

Release Date: May 14, 2025

In this episode of "Stuff You Should Know," hosted by Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant under the iHeartPodcasts banner, the hosts delve into the intricate and fascinating relationship between fig trees and fig wasps. Joined by guest Jerry, they explore the biological symbiosis that has evolved over millions of years, the agricultural practices surrounding fig cultivation, and the surprising implications for consumers, including vegans.

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1. Introduction to Fig Trees and Fig Wasps

Jerry kicks off the discussion by introducing the central topic: the mutualistic relationship between fig trees and fig wasps. He explains that this relationship is so interdependent that without one, the other would cease to exist. This sets the stage for a deep dive into the biology and ecology of these organisms.

"Fig wasps and that specific kind of fig apparently co-evolved over the last 60 million years to form a mutually symbiotic relationship... the fig wasp depends on the fig for its reproductive cycle, the fig depends on the fig wasp for its reproductive cycle."
[01:35] Jerry

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2. Understanding the Fig Structure and Pollination Process

Chuck Bryant elaborates on the anatomy of figs, explaining that what consumers perceive as fruit is actually a structure called a syconium—a specialized inflorescence containing multiple flowers inside.

"The fig, the thing that you're eating, it's something within a larger structure and it's called a syconium... it's sort of like an inverted flower."
[02:06] Chuck Bryant

The hosts detail how fig wasps, specifically the female wasps, enter the syconium to lay eggs. This process results in the wasp losing her wings and ultimately being digested by the fig's enzyme, physine. This ensures that the fig is pollinated while providing the wasp with a necessary environment for her offspring.

"When you eat a figure, there is a little bit of female wasp inside of that thing, just broken down and becoming part of that edible fig."
[03:16] Chuck Bryant

Jerry adds that while consumers might not detect the wasp directly, parts of the wasp are present in the figs, which has led to various legends and misconceptions.

"But you are eating part of a wasp though, make no mistake."
[03:42] Jerry

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3. Agricultural Practices: Separating Male and Female Fig Trees

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on how farmers manage the fig-wasp relationship to ensure crop viability. Chuck explains that farmers separate male and female fig trees to control pollination and prevent uncontrollable seed production, which could damage the plants.

"Farmers separate these trees out to try and keep them from doing that."
[04:31] Chuck Bryant

Jerry challenges this by claiming that many fig trees, including those cultivated for consumption, are self-pollinating and hermaphroditic, suggesting that separation might not be universally practiced.

"I've seen that they're self-pollinating and hermaphroditic, including the ones that you eat."
[05:17] Jerry

The hosts humorously agree to disagree, highlighting the complexities and variations in agricultural methods.

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4. Consumer Implications: Veganism and USDA Standards

The conversation shifts to the implications of consuming figs for vegans, who may avoid products involving any form of insect consumption. Chuck points out that while fig consumption technically involves ingesting parts of wasps, the levels are typically minimal and not easily detectable.

"Just don't worry about eating wasps... [they] are designed to digest the female wasp that dies inside of it."
[09:08] Chuck Bryant

They further discuss USDA standards, noting that products like tomato ketchup are allowed a certain number of fruit fly eggs per serving, which parallels the unavoidable presence of small insects in various foods.

"The USDA tomato ketchup... can have no more than 30 fruit fly eggs per every 100 grams of ketchup."
[07:22] Chuck Bryant

Jerry expresses amazement at how such standards are monitored and enforced, pondering the practical aspects of quality control in food production.

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5. Farmers' Role and Wasp Management

Chuck details the meticulous efforts by fig farmers to manage wasp populations, referring to them as "wasp wranglers." Farmers control the number of new wasps introduced to their farms to maintain a balanced relationship that favors fig production without overwhelming the system.

"They're wasp wranglers as well as farmers, and they get these things delivered to their house, to their farm in paper sacks, and they can pretty much control exactly how many females have access to the correct plant."
[09:04] Chuck Bryant

Jerry humorously imagines the tools used in wasp management, adding a light-hearted touch to the technical discussion.

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6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Wrapping up the episode, Jerry reiterates the coexistence of figs and wasps, assuring listeners that while consuming figs does involve ingesting parts of wasps, the process is natural and unavoidable. The hosts conclude with a whimsical notion of a T-shirt slogan—"Wasp becomes fig"—symbolizing the seamless integration of this biological relationship.

"In fact, that's a great T-shirt. Wasp becomes fig."
[10:18] Chuck Bryant

They leave listeners with the intriguing fact that consuming figs is part of an ancient and intricate natural partnership, blending humor with scientific insight.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "[...] you're eating part of a wasp though, make no mistake." – Jerry [03:42]
• "Farmers separate these trees out to try and keep them from doing that." – Chuck Bryant [04:31]
• "The fig... is like an inverted flower." – Chuck Bryant [02:06]
• "Wasp becomes fig." – Chuck Bryant [10:18]

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Conclusion

"Short Stuff: Figs & Wasps" provides an enlightening exploration of the delicate balance between fig trees and fig wasps, shedding light on the biological necessity of this relationship and its implications for agriculture and consumers. Through engaging dialogue and expert insights, Josh, Chuck, and Jerry make complex ecological interactions accessible and fascinating for listeners.

Transcript

[Chuck Bryant]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Josh Clark]

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[Jerry]

Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And Jerry's here too, sitting in for Dave. So this is Short Stuff.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. This is an episode where I was very surprised and I even went back that when we did our episode on wasps, we even got emails about this. So I'm pretty sure we did not cover it. Yeah, but we're talking about fig wasps of the fig tree specifically. Not the kind that you see. Almost all fig tree varieties are not ones that you eat the fruit of. That's a very specific one. The ones like you have out in your yard, they develop without pollination, which means they're parthenocarpic. But the ones where you eat the figs, they're grown commercially, mainly in California. Here in the United States, they are calamy figs and they are imported from Turkey. And the Ficus carica, or the fig wasp, is also imported from Turkey because they have a very special relationship.

[Jerry]

Yeah. So fig wasps and that specific kind of fig apparently co evolved over the last 60 million years to form a mutually symbiotic relationship, as our friend Connor from Love on the Spectrum would say, where the fig wasp depends on the fig for its reproductive cycle, the fig depends on the fig wasp for its reproductive cycle. And if you didn't have one or the other, the other one would not exist.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, totally. And we're going to tell you how that happens right now. I was going to say right after this, but that'd be way too soon for sure. First thing we need to say is that the fig, the thing that you're eating, it's something within a larger structure and it's called a ciconium is what you're actually eating. It's sort of like an inverted flower. It's not really a fruit necessarily.

[Jerry]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

And what happens is these calamy farmers in California, they have female trees that are gonna produce that edible version of the synconia and they have male trees that produce an inedible version called a gall fig. And if they want to pollinate those, a wasp has to crawl into that synconium, a female wasp, she loses her wings on the way because she has it squeezed through a tight little passage and it's a one way trip, which is very sad. And you end up eating that female wasp. She's broken down by something called physine. It's a protein digesting enzyme. So when you eat a figure, there is a little bit of female wasp inside of that thing, just broken down and becoming part of that edible fig.

[Jerry]

Yeah, but essentially you're not going to be able to detect it on your tongue. Some people think that the little tiny seeds inside of a fig are wasp parts because there's been such a legend that developed about like fig wasps. And it is true to some degree. But for the most part, no, you're not detecting a fig wasps like body or exoskeleton when you're eating a figure. You are eating part of a wasp though, make no mistake.

[Chuck Bryant]

For sure, and I mentioned it was a one way trip. It's fairly sad that that happens. But it's all in good service of that mutual arrangement. Before that happens, this female wasp is going to come out of an inedible male fig, I guess I'm going to call it a fruit because she was born there and she has mated by that point with a blind, wingless male wasp who never leaves that male figure. So she exits that inedible male fig, she picks up some pollen, she's got all these eggs and at that point she can either go to a male fig tree or a female fig tree. But if she lands on that female fig tree, her ovipositor is too short to reach into this really long styled female flower, so she can't lay those eggs in there. She does end up pollinating it, but she sacrifices her life in doing so.

[Jerry]

Yeah, yeah, she makes it all the way to the synconium and finds like I've literally just wasted my life. But her life is not a waste because if she didn't accidentally enter a female fig where she was trying to reproduce or lay her eggs in a male fig, then the figs would not get pollinated. So figs get pollinated because fig wasps sometimes make mistakes when choosing a male or a female fig to burrow into and lay their eggs. I find that amazing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's pretty great. Like it works both ways. If she goes into that male fig. Then she's going to deposit those fertilized eggs and that circle just kind of keeps going on and on. Farmers separate these trees out to try and keep them from doing that.

[Jerry]

I protest that. I'm protesting.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, you're protesting them doing that.

[Jerry]

I protest that there are male and female fig trees. I've seen that they're self pollinating and hermaphroditic, including the ones that you eat. So I'm going on record as saying.

[Chuck Bryant]

That, well, you're wrong, my friend, because this farmer that was interviewed said that they separate those male and female trees. I don't think he's just making that up to aggravate you.

[Jerry]

What if he's completely off his rocker?

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, are all the farmers and all the sources completely off their rocker?

[Jerry]

So I think this is just one of those times where we're going to have to agree to disagree. Do you agree? Sure, that's very agreeable.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, we'll be back right after this.

[Dave]

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[Jerry]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

Don't sleep on the symptoms.

[Chuck Bryant]

Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by Lilly USA, LLC. So a few things that we can remember is that female wasp dies inside that edible fig. And there have been people like vegans, that there are vegans. I'm not gonna say there have been. There are literally vegans who won't eat that. But there are bugs in almost every fruit that you eat. There are levels of bug. I was about to say infestation, but just bug activity that's acceptable for the USDA tomato ketchup. Apparently it has the highest USDA grade standard possible, and it can have no more than 30 fruit fly eggs per every 100 grams of ketchup.

[Jerry]

Like, surely, I guess there's some quality control where they take some, like, 100 ounces or 100 grams of ketchup and count the fruit fly eggs in it. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know how they do that.

[Jerry]

And if that is, like, if they find 31 or even 100, that doesn't necessarily mean that the next bottle is going to have the same amount because, I mean, we're talking fruit fly eggs. Right. From all sorts of different tomatoes in each bottle.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

It boggles my mind. I don't know how they do this.

[Chuck Bryant]

No.

[Jerry]

Or how they enforce it, I guess, is what I mean.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I bet someone. Or it might be one of those things where, like, no one's even paying attention to this.

[Jerry]

Right. The vegans are. Vegans are watching you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes. They're always watching. I did mention, though, that the farmers try and control the, you know, separating those trees out to control, because it can be. If there are too many seeds, that fruit can burst open. And all of a sudden it's not, you know, it's good for the plant, but it's not good to harvest for the farmer. So they're trying to sell these things. So they separate those trees out over some pretty great distances and also control the number of new wasps they bring in. They're like, they're wasp wranglers as well as farmers, and they get these things delivered to their house, to their farm in paper sacks, and they can pretty much control exactly how many females have access to the correct plant.

[Jerry]

Yeah. And those paper sacks also usually include a tiny cowboy hat and a tiny lasso. And then just one more time to just kind of go over this again, just to calm anybody's fears, you probably are eating some insects. So vegans, you're right. If you don't want to eat insects, you probably should steer clear of figs. But the fig is designed to digest the female wasp that dies inside of it. And breaks it down for nutrients for itself. So just don't worry about eating wasps. I don't know why everybody's so worried about eating wasps, Chuck.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, it is fig at that point that wasp becomes fig, right? In fact, that's a great T shirt. Wasp becomes fig.

[Jerry]

I agree wholeheartedly. Well, since we came up with a T shirt, obviously, everybody that means short stuff is out.

[Josh Clark]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

[Dave]

For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.