Stuff You Should Know: Short Stuff - Pies

Hosts: Josh & Chuck
Release Date: November 26, 2025

Episode Overview

In this fun, fast-paced "Short Stuff" episode, Josh and Chuck take listeners on a whirlwind tour through the rich, quirky history of pie. From ancient Egyptian galettes to English “coffyns” and modern American staples like pumpkin and key lime, they explore how pie evolved across cultures and centuries. The duo relishes both savory and sweet pies, shares humorous asides, and dispels some “as American as apple pie” myths along the way.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Ancient Beginnings of Pie (01:23–03:16)

• Early Pies:

  • Pie has existed for thousands of years, dating back to ancient Egypt—about 8,000 years ago—with early versions like galettes made from grains and sweetened with honey, baked over coals.
    • Josh: “But pie has been around for way before pilot Tompkins. Thousands of years.” (01:43)
  • The Greeks borrowed the concept about 5,000 years later, replacing honey with meats, and crucially developed pastry dough similar to today’s versions.
    • Chuck: “They did something that I think is a historic crime—they replaced sweet stuff like honey with meats.” (02:28)

• Roman & European Spread:

  • Romans spread pies to Europe where the tradition flourished, and regional variants emerged across continents (e.g., sambusa in Ethiopia, empanadas in Spain & Latin America, tortiller in Quebec, spanakopita in Greece, Zwebelkuchen in Germany).

Pies Across Cultures (03:16–04:32)

• Discussion of international pies illustrates the universal appeal and adaptability of pies, both sweet and savory.
• Humorous personal notes on British pork pies and “pork pie hats.”

Medieval & Victorian English Pies (04:32–06:13)

• Medieval “PyEs” and Coffins:

  • English pies were spelled “pye” and included everything—even bones, which acted as “handles” for eating.
  • Sometimes, game birds’ legs would protrude from the pies.
    • Chuck: “Not just the bones, the legs of, like, a game bird, like a pheasant would be sticking out and hanging over the side of the pie.” (04:46)
  • The crust (or “coffin”) was often considered inedible by the rich and eaten only by the poor.

• Pies as Spectacle:

  • In England, it was customary at royal feasts to bake massive pies filled with live birds—or even people or string ensembles for dramatic effect.
    • Chuck: “That’s where you know that rhyme—Sing a song of sixpence where they talk about four and 20 blackbirds baked into a pie…” (06:40)
    • Josh: “You gotta have a big pie to put a couple dozen blackbirds in there!” (07:38)
  • These pies were constructed empty, and the “contents” added after baking.

Pie Recipes & The Tart Distinction (06:13–06:40)

• First pie recipes in European cookbooks date as far back as the 1300s.
• Tarts are pies without tops and generally have edible, more palatable pastry crusts.

Famous Pies and Their Origins

Pumpkin Pie (11:05–12:43)

• Pumpkin as an indigenous American food, but pies themselves were first referenced in a French cookbook (1651) before appearing in the first American cookbook, “American Cookery” by Amelia Simmons (1796).
  • Josh: “In 1796, it was in the very first American cookbook… called American Cookery by an American Orphan.” (12:20)
  • Originally, pumpkins as pie “crusts” were baked with honey and spices over coals.

Apple Pie & The American Myth (12:43–14:20)

• Apple pie’s “all-American” status is a myth—apples are native to Asia, and the Dutch had mastered apple pies centuries before they reached America.
  • Chuck: “Apple pie seems pretty American. That’s why the French thing was so puzzling. But apple pie, 100% American. Like, don’t even come at me with anything else.” (12:43)
  • Josh: “Well, buddy, apples don’t come from America. They’re native to Asia.” (12:55)
• The phrase “as American as apple pie” first appeared in 1928—later popularized by WWII GIs.

Cherry Pie (14:23–15:18)

• Possibly originated for or by Queen Elizabeth I (16th century); still a staple pie today.
• Personal preferences shared—Josh prefers key lime and apple over cherry, but won’t turn a cherry pie down, especially served warm.

Boston Cream Pie (15:20–16:17)

• Actually a cake, not a pie—derived from “Washington Pie,” a cake baked in a pie shell. Named for its presentation, not its construction.
• Invented for the Parker House Hotel’s opening in Boston, 1856.
  • Josh: “It was invented for the opening, the grand opening of the Parker House Hotel in 1856.” (16:06)
• Spawns a humorous aside on Parker House rolls.

Key Lime Pie (17:09–19:05)

• State pie of Florida; beloved by both hosts.
  • Chuck: “This is the pride of Florida. If you’ve never had a slice of key lime pie, you’re cheating yourself.” (17:07)
• Origin stories: local Key West “Aunt Sally” or possibly derived from Borden’s “Magic Lemon Cream Pie” (1930s).
  • Josh: “That’s one story. Another is that they came later than that…from a recipe for Borden condensed milk.” (18:35)
• The hosts bond over personal pie memories—lemon icebox pie, Ready Whip vs. meringue.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On pies’ ancient roots:
  Josh: “But pie has been around for way before pilot Tompkins. Thousands of years.” (01:43)

• On the evolution of pie filling:
  Chuck: “…the Greeks… did something that I think is a historic crime. They replaced sweet stuff like honey with meats.” (02:28)

• English pie spectacle:
  Chuck: “That’s where you know that rhyme. Sing a song of sixpence where they talk about four and 20 blackbirds baked into a pie…you would serve a pie to the king and they would cut it open and all these beautiful birds would fly out.” (06:40)

• Apple pie’s American myth:
  Josh: “Well, buddy, apples don’t come from America. They’re native to Asia." (12:55)
  Chuck: “So how does the apple pie get associated with America? …Apparently, World War II, there was a catchphrase for the GIs... 'Well, sir, for mom and apple pie, of course.'” (13:58)

• Pie preferences:
  Josh: “It’s one of my top two pies for me...pecan pie, Dutch apple and key lime.” (17:39)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & Ancient Pie Origins: 01:23–03:16
• International Pie Variations: 03:16–04:32
• Medieval English Pies & Pie “Coffins”: 04:32–06:13
• Pie Spectacles & Blackbird Pies: 06:40–08:18
• Famous American Pies: 11:05–19:42
  • Pumpkin Pie: 11:05–12:43
  • Apple Pie: 12:43–14:20
  • Cherry Pie: 14:23–15:18
  • Boston Cream Pie: 15:20–16:17
  • Key Lime Pie: 17:09–19:05
• Final Pie Preferences, Personal Highlights: 17:09–19:42

Style & Tone

Lively, conversational, peppered with personal anecdotes and playful asides. Josh and Chuck keep things approachable and humorous, using gentle teasing and quick detours—very much reminiscent of friends chatting over coffee, or, fittingly, a good slice of pie.

Summary:
Josh and Chuck deliver a delightful, comprehensive rundown of pie’s ancient roots, international spread, and iconic American variations—all with their hallmark warmth and wit. The episode not only serves up fun facts and quirky stories, but also celebrates pies as delicious, unifying foods across time and cultures. Perfect listening for history buffs, foodies, or anyone just craving a new appreciation for dessert.