Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget

Summary

Stuff You Should Know: Short Stuff – The Guinness Widget

Release Date: January 29, 2025
Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction to the Guinness Widget

In the "Short Stuff" segment of the "Stuff You Should Know" podcast, hosts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve into the intriguing world of the Guinness widget—a small device embedded in cans of Guinness beer that revolutionizes the drinking experience. The discussion promises to unravel the mystery behind this seemingly simple component and its significant impact on beer enjoyment.

Notable Quote:
"We're talking widgets on Short stuff. I should say widgets that were first introduced as a concept from a play."
— Josh Clark [00:34]

Origins and Etymology of Widgets

Josh and Chuck begin by exploring the origin of the term "widget," suggesting its roots may trace back to a 1924 play where the term was used to describe a generic product. They highlight how Guinness adopted and patented the term to name their specific device, distinguishing it from the general notion of a gadget.

Notable Quote:
"We don't know the true etymology, but I believe it was in a play in 1924 where they specifically in the play talked about, like, we're in the widget business."
— Chuck Bryant [01:05]

The Science Behind the Guinness Widget

The conversation shifts to the scientific principles that make Guinness unique. Chuck introduces Michael Ash, a mathematician and master brewer at Guinness, who in 1951 sought to preserve the smooth, creamy texture of cask-aged Guinness as the industry moved towards kegging. Ash's solution was the infusion of nitrogen alongside carbon dioxide, leading to the development of the widget.

Notable Quote:
"Michael Ash was like, this cask, Guinness is smooth and creamy, and CO2 just doesn't do it."
— Chuck Bryant [04:38]

Functionality of the Widget

Josh and Chuck dissect the mechanics of the widget, describing it as a small plastic sphere with a hole that releases nitrogen when the can is opened. This process replicates the cascading effect and creamy head characteristic of Guinness poured from a tap. The hosts explain how nitrogen's lower solubility compared to carbon dioxide results in smaller, more stable bubbles, enhancing the beer's texture and appearance.

Notable Quote:
"When you pour this nitrogen infused Guinness beer, the head will be foamier, much creamier than say like a CO2 lager head that eventually kind of settles down."
— Josh Clark [08:53]

Historical Development and Patenting

The discussion covers the development of the widget, highlighting John Lunn's role in creating the device and Guinness's subsequent patent filing in 1969. Originally dubbed "Project Dynamite," the project underwent several name changes due to customs concerns before settling on a name aligned with Guinness's branding.

Notable Quote:
"They filed the patent in '69 for an improved method of and means of dispensing carbonated liquids from containers."
— Chuck Bryant [10:19]

Impact on Beer Consumption

Josh and Chuck share their personal experiences with Guinness, contrasting the canned version with the traditional cask-poured beer. They discuss the differences in mouthfeel, carbonation, and overall satisfaction, emphasizing how the widget successfully emulates the pub experience in a can.

Notable Quote:
"Guinness is supposed to go down like a milk and not a fizzy carbonated beverage."
— Chuck Bryant [11:02]

Comparisons with Other Brands

The hosts also mention other beer brands like Old Speckled Hen, Boddington's, Murphy's, and more, all utilizing widget technology to deliver a similar creamier texture. This segment underscores the widget's influence beyond Guinness, affecting how various stouts and cream ales are packaged and enjoyed.

Notable Quote:
"Old Speckled Hen uses widgets, too, which I didn't know. That used to be one of my fave beers for a while."
— Josh Clark [17:29]

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Wrapping up the episode, Josh and Chuck reflect on the ingenuity of the Guinness widget, acknowledging its significant role in preserving the traditional Guinness experience in a modern, portable format. They humorously lament their own lack of firsthand experience with the properly poured canned Guinness, expressing interest in exploring it further.

Notable Quote:
"It's really ingenious, though. I mean, it's got this tiny little hole and imagine a little ball filled with like, nitrogen infused beer being jetted out of this tiny little hole as you opened and pouring this beer. It's so simple, it's ingenious."
— Chuck Bryant [14:34]

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Key Takeaways

• Widget Origins: The term "widget" likely originated from a 1924 play and was later adopted by Guinness to name their specific beer-can device.

• Nitrogen's Role: Nitrogen, less soluble than carbon dioxide, creates smaller, stable bubbles, leading to Guinness's signature creamy head and cascading effect.

• Patent and Development: John Lunn developed the widget, leading to Guinness patenting the technology in 1969 after overcoming initial naming challenges.

• Impact on Beer Consumption: The widget allows canned Guinness to mimic the experience of cask-poured beer, enhancing portability without compromising quality.

• Wider Influence: Other beer brands have adopted widget technology to deliver similar textures and experiences, broadening the widget's impact on the beer industry.

Conclusion

In this insightful episode of "Short Stuff," Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant effectively demystify the Guinness widget, blending technical explanations with personal anecdotes. Their engaging discussion not only educates listeners on the widget's functionality and history but also highlights its lasting influence on beer consumption and packaging.

Transcript

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[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to Short Stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And we're talking short stuff today. We're talking widgets on Short stuff. I should say widgets that were first introduced as a concept from a play. Right, Chuck?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, there was the word. First of all, we need to thank our old buddy Brian Didsbury. Oh, right, the boom operator on the Stuff youf Should Know TV show.

[Josh Clark]

So great.

[Chuck Bryant]

Who comes to our live shows. Still a friend. He texts me all the time trying to get me to play Red Dead Redemption with him online.

[Josh Clark]

He texts me Simpsons quotes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Does he really? Oh, did he text you about this, too?

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. Yeah, he texted me a couple of days ago and he's like, hey, man, how about one on the Guinness widget? I was like, done, buddy.

[Josh Clark]

It's a good idea. For sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

It is. And thanks to Guinness.com, howStuffWorks, Conversible Economist Petroleum Service Company. Where else? YouTube.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. Anyway, widgets. Everybody thinks it's basically a spinoff of the word gadget, which is probably true. We don't know the true etymology, but I believe it was in a play in 1924 where they specifically in the play talked about, like, we're in the widget business. And that may be like the first time that anyone had ever used it like that. But then Guinness came along and said, well, you know what? Everyone talks about widgets as just a thing you make, a nameless thing you make at any company. We're going to make a real thing and we're really going to call it a widget and get it patented as such.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And they did. It's this thing that makes canned Guinness much more like Guinness from the tap, which is actually much more like Guinness from a cask, because Guinness is its own kind of thing. As a matter of fact, I say we dig into how Guinness is Guinness.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. I think we should prep people that this simple little short stuff was a cause of a lot of emails and consternation between us today. Right.

[Josh Clark]

Is it simple?

[Chuck Bryant]

I think so.

[Josh Clark]

All right, well, I think you should take the lead then.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's basically a ping pong ball.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Yes. The widget is simple. Right, so let's talk about what we're talking about. If you open a can of Guinness and just the can, it's not in the bottle, there's a little plastic sphere with a hole in the bottom that you will hear rattling around the can. If you cut the can open very gently, set one aside, and then be very careful holding the other one up because it's a sliced can. They're very dangerous. And look inside, you'll see this little plastic sphere that is the Guinness widget. And there's. It's not that big, is it?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, it looks a little smaller.

[Josh Clark]

But could you, though, does it have bounce to it?

[Chuck Bryant]

I doubt it because it's not full of air and it's heavier. I was just making a joke.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, Well, I didn't know. I could see that being, like a thing that the Internet figured out.

[Chuck Bryant]

I bet they've done that in Ireland. And by the way, Guinness calls these, officially within the Guinness Company, they call it Smoothifire.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, so everybody else calls it a widget then?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, so they put this in there. And only God themself knows how they work.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, let's talk a little bit about a guy named Michael Ashe. In 1951, Michael Ash joined the Guinness Company. He was a mathematician. He was a master brewer. He was a big believer in science. And he was like, hey, there's all these beers that are made with carbon dioxide, and it's that CO2 that dissolves in the beer that makes it fizzy. When you open it up, when the can is closed, the pressure inside is much higher than the pressure outside. So when you open that thing up, there's a pressure drop, and the agitation of pouring it makes that CO2 come bubbling out. And that's where you get your foamy head on a beer.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

He was like, this cask, Guinness is smooth and creamy, and CO2 just doesn't do it. If we're going to try and put this stuff in pubs and eventually in cans.

[Josh Clark]

No, no. So if you have a cask, the beer that's put into the cask, it ages in the cask. Like, when you deliver it to a pub, it's still doing its thing, aging. And once you Tap the cask, you have three days to drink it. That's how like unpasteurized and new it is. But the thing is, is when you get the beer out of the cask, you have to actually pump, pump it out. And that creates like a totally different pour and finish than if you're pouring it out of a keg. So because the world kind of transitioned from casks to kegs around the middle of the 20th century, Michael Ash is like, well, then what can we do to make Guinness more cask like or keep its cask like profile and look and taste and everything? And he figured out that adding nitrogen is what would do that.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And you know what? I think that's a good little cliffhanger. Okay, so let's take a break and we'll talk about the magic inside the Guinness can and glass right after this.

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[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so where we left off, Michael Ash had discovered that nitrogen along with it, doesn't replace the CO2. It's a mixture of the carbon dioxide and nitrogen. Right. But nitrogen isn't absorbed into the beer like carbon dioxide is. So it has the same pressure of just a regular beer, but it has a lot less CO2, and so it's not as fizzy, which is not what you want out of a Guinness anyway. Because that nitrogen is making up a great deal of that pressure inside the can.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. And even though it's harder for nitrogen to dissolve inside beer CO2, it's very easy. Nitrogen will some will dissolve and it forms smaller bubbles and more stable bubbles. So when you pour this nitrogen infused Guinness beer, the head will be foamier, much creamier than say like a CO2 lager head that eventually kind of settles down and looks like urine in a glass after a while. Especially if you're talking about Coors Banquet beer. This is like a foamy head that, because the nitrogen bubbles are more stable, stays around way longer too. So he figured out by adding nitrogen, you can basically replicate the look and the feel and the taste of cask poured Guinness like it used to be.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. So the next step was like, how do I make this happen in a can? It seemed like an impossibility until a guy named John Lunn L U N N, a master distiller, created the widget. The patent, I believe Guinness eventually filed for the patent in 69 for an improved method of and means of dispensing carbonated liquids from containers. It began as Project Dynamite, but apparently there was a lot of that was problematic for customs because it said Project Dynamite on all the paperwork and stuff.

[Josh Clark]

Are you serious?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Yeah. So they changed it to Project Oak Tree.

[Josh Clark]

They changed it to Project Dino Mite.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. They changed it to Project Nuclear Waste. No, Project Oak Tree, I think was a reference to the original Project Acorn from Guinness. So they wanted to get these cans. Right. You can get Guinness in a bottle, but it's not the same beer at all. It's a completely different beer.

[Josh Clark]

So you. The canned version better, huh?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah. It's the pub version.

[Josh Clark]

I might not be doing it right then. Cause I'm like, what is this crap? Like, this is. I would rather just drink the Guinness out of a bottle any day of the week.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, do you like Guinness in a pub?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know that I've ever actually had real Guinness in a pub.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, Josh. Let's get it. I'm taking you to England next week.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. That'd be awesome.

[Chuck Bryant]

You're like, really? That just surprises me.

[Josh Clark]

I must not have poured it correctly, because it doesn't make any sense that they would even go to this trouble of putting a widget in it to make worse Guinness than it is in the bottle. So I just didn't do it right. That's my guess.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, maybe you just don't understand the concept of Guinness. I mean, Guinness is supposed to go down like a milk and not a fizzy carbonated beverage. It's got. They call it the surge. And settle. It pours in, and you. You just see it gently falling to the bottom, and you get this milky foam at the top.

[Josh Clark]

The cascade.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And, like, that's why I could always drink a lot of Guinness. Cause it didn't fill you up and make you super gassy and burpy.

[Josh Clark]

Wow. So I've been doing the opposite. Because drinking a single bottle of Guinness is like eating a whole loaf of bread to me.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. The bottle is completely different.

[Josh Clark]

Wow. Okay, so I gotta try this other version. Because what you're talking about is basically the opposite of the Guinness I'm familiar with.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, wow. That is. That's funny.

[Josh Clark]

Like, I really want to try it. Like, you've just blown my mind.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Oh, man. Go out and get a four pack and crack the can open and then just dump it in the glass as hard as you can. Just turn it upside down.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

And it won't overflow or anything. It'll get to the top and just stop and then start settling.

[Josh Clark]

Well, there's this other thing they have now, too, that I guess kind of takes the whole thing into a new level. It's called nitro surge.

[Chuck Bryant]

And it's like, I saw that you.

[Josh Clark]

Put it on top of a can, and it does. It does the pouring like it would from a cask, as far as I understand. Right there at home or, you know, in the parking lot of a convenience store.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I saw the nitro Surge. I don't think they sell them here yet. But it's like a. I think it's like a mechanical device. Like, does it have a battery in it even? I'm not fully sure. I stopped looking into it when I realized how much further it was taking me away from the widget. You know what I mean?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, I forgot we were talking about the widget.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, let's get back to the widget. Okay, so the widget is a little plastic ball. And I think this is where we got hung up earlier. I don't know if you saw my most recent email. I think it's a matter of semantics because I kept saying that the. And Guinness on their website says it's a nitrogen filled sphere. And you're like, it's not filled with nitrogen. I think it's just semantics because they don't literally fill this ball with nitrogen and then drop it in.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Some people say they do it is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Because it has a hole in it. You drop it in there and then fill the can with nitrogen, and then that ball fills up with nitrogen and beer.

[Josh Clark]

Gotcha. I gotcha.

[Chuck Bryant]

And it stays in this tiny. It's basically a little mini turbojet. So when you crack that beer, it's a little mini ball with higher pressure than the rest, than even what's inside the rest of the can.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

And so when you crack that beer and all that pressure changes, just like a regular beer, it comes shooting out of that little tiny hole in the plastic ball and provides this little extra boost of nitrogen, like a little beer jet, agitating everything to create even more bubbles.

[Josh Clark]

Right. But the specific kind of nitrogen bottles that make Guinness. Guinness, which are smaller and more stable. So you get that foamy, creamy head and the cascade and all that. I get it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

I get it. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right.

[Josh Clark]

He did a great job.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think it was the semantical thing. When people say it's filled with nitrogen. It is. But as a virtue of the canning process, they don't like, fill it up and go like, quick, throw it in there, Right?

[Josh Clark]

You have to hold it just right. Put your thumb over the hole and then just throw it in and put the top of the can on really quick.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. It's really ingenious, though. I mean, it's got this tiny little hole and imagine a little ball filled with like, nitrogen infused beer being jetted out of this tiny little hole as you opened and pouring this beer. It's so simple, it's ingenious, and so ingenious that in 2004 they did a survey of almost 9,000 people and they Voted that the Guinness widget was a greater invention than the Internet.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And they're wrong. But I get the point for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, it's something to put on your website.

[Josh Clark]

I guess it depends which version of the Internet you're talking about.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know, Let me ask you this. Have you ever had any, like, cream stouts? Yeah, like Boddington's or Murphy's or any of those.

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. But just not the Guinness.

[Josh Clark]

Like, I just associate a stout with, like, I just had dinner three hours ago. I can't drink a stout because I'll throw up. I'll be too full.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think that's. To my mind, it's a misnomer because stout sounds heavy because it's a big, dark beer, but it's because it's not heavily carbonated like a lager. It doesn't fill you up like that. It doesn't make you gassy and burpy. It's like drinking a big, thick milk, which may make you feel full, but it's not from, like, gassy full.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, we're getting tripped up by semantics again. It to me, yes. The big milky thing. If I drank a big glass of milk after I ate, I would probably throw up. So it's the same thing in that. But no, it's not making me, like, you know, like, Coors Banquet beer would. Where I'm burpee or whatever. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't fill you up in that sense. It, like, literally fills you up.

[Chuck Bryant]

I got you.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. So, yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing. Well, now I'm worried that I have experienced Guinness like you're supposed to, and there's not, like, a whole world out there for me to try.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, you may not like it.

[Josh Clark]

I'll try it for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

I haven't. I mean, I don't drink a lot of beer anymore, period. And I went through a big Guinness phase in the 90s, starting in college and through New Jersey. And in fact, that brings me to another little factoid here. The Guinness uses a floating widget since 1997. And I was like, oh, that explains it. Cause in the 90s, we cut open the can. Cause we were like, what is that in there? And it was fixed to the bottom of the can. So it was pre 97, and during COVID with supply issues, they fixed it to the bottom of the can then as well. But otherwise, it's been a floating widget.

[Josh Clark]

Wouldn't you have been freaked out when you cut the can open and you found the thing just fixed to the bottom of the can, looking back up at you and blink. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like a little Irish eyeball.

[Josh Clark]

Right. One other thing, though. There's a. I noticed on this list, Old Speckled Hen uses widgets, too, which I didn't know. That used to be one of my fave beers for a while.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, and the Boddingtons, Murphys, Beamish, Tetleys. What else? Wexford Belhaven. And I'm sure we've missed some, but they all use the widget technology to deliver that pub drawn flavor to your lips right there at home.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. This episode of Short Stuff, brought to you by Coors Banquet Beer.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I doubt that.

[Josh Clark]

You got anything else.

[Chuck Bryant]

I got nothing else. I'm sure we got some stuff wrong. There's some beer aficionados that are, like, not quite right.

[Josh Clark]

Guys, whatever. I think you should say the thing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. Short Stuff is out. Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show.