Stuff You Should Know – Short Stuff: Victorian Flower Language

Hosts: Josh & Chuck
Release Date: November 19, 2025

Overview

In this “Short Stuff” episode, Josh and Chuck explore the secretive and intricate world of floriography — the Victorian language of flowers. Delving into how flowers became coded means of communication, especially for expressions unsaid in polite society, they unpack its intriguing history, complex symbolism, and some memorable quirks of the era’s social life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origins and Spread of Floriography

• Floriography refers to the coded communication using flowers and was enormous in the Victorian and Regency periods (early 19th to early 20th century).
• The tradition traces back at least to the Ottoman Empire in the 1600s, with a practice called Selam, where members of harems would send messages through flowers and rhymes.
  • Chuck (03:43): "Flowers did the talking for them and this actually spread from the Ottoman Empire to Europe via one single person... Lady Mary Wortley."
• Lady Mary Wortley Montagu, wife of the British ambassador to Turkey, is credited with bringing knowledge of Selam to Britain via her letters (04:18).

The Complexity of Floral Messaging

• Floriography wasn’t just about which flower you sent — even how you presented a bouquet, its orientation, and ribbon placement had meaning.

  • Josh (02:12): "It goes deep. I mean, it is literally a code...all that stuff means something."
  • Chuck (13:19): "How the ribbon was tied also matters. Tied to the left, the symbolism is applied to the giver. It's tied to the right if it's in reference to the recipient."

• Not only the species, but the color, condition (fresh, withered, dried), and arrangement contributed nuanced signals.

• Example:

  • Yellow carnation/rose – rejection or disappointment
  • Yellow lily – joy, walking on air
  • Red rose – love
  • White rose – purity, unless withered (then, "you made no impression" or "your beauty is fleeting")
  • Dried rose – "I would rather die than give in to your advances" (10:37-11:20)

• Herbs and non-flower plants added yet more layers:

  • Rosemary = remembrance
  • Mint = clarity
  • Moss = charity/maternal love
  • Violet = modesty
  • (09:55): "If you put all those together in a little tussy mussy and gave it to somebody, you would be saying something like I modestly ask you to clearly remember me with either charity or maternal love. Your pick."

Presentation & Reception Rules

• The bouquet’s orientation (upside down = opposite meaning) could subvert the whole message intended (13:19).
• Even how and where flowers were worn, as well as which hand was used to accept them, mattered:
  • Bouquet near center of bodice = friendship only
  • Over the heart = declaration of love
  • Accept with right hand = yes, left = no; hold bouquet upside down = rejection
  • (15:06) Josh: "If you held the bouquet upside down after getting it, that's rejection."

Literature & Pop Culture Connections

• Jane Austen, the Brontës, and other classic authors wove floriography symbolism into their writing; 19th-century readers would pick up cues most modern audiences miss (05:49-06:13).
  • Chuck (06:25): Brings up Pride and Prejudice and jokes about an exaggerated repetition of "red."

The Confusion of Codes

• The language was not always universally understood — there were nearly 100 different floriography guides in use just in the US between 1827–1923 (13:10).
  • Chuck (12:59): "You were just hoping that you guys were working from the same book."
• Multiple flowers had multiple, sometimes contradictory meanings, making context king (12:24).

Negative & Rejection Messages

• Some flowers carried direct insults or challenges:
  • Marigolds = jealousy
  • Lavender or Orange Lily = distrust or "I hate you"
  • Snapdragons = "I feel deceived"
  • Tansy = war (14:15-14:41)
• Returning or accepting flowers also broadcast answers:
  • Solid carnation = yes
  • Yellow carnation = no
  • Striped carnation = "I'm sorry but I can't be with you" (15:39)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Josh (02:12): "It is literally a code. And that's what I was kind of referring to with the upside down and the wilted and where the ribbon's tied. Like all that stuff means something."

• Chuck (09:55): “If you put all those together in a little tussy mussy and gave it to somebody, you would be saying something like, 'I modestly ask you to clearly remember me with either charity or maternal love. Your pick.'”

• Josh (13:08): “Yeah. I mean, that's huge."

• Josh (16:32): "Hey, I do love you right back, buddy. Just, you know, not like that."

• Chuck (14:15): “Jealousy with marigolds...orange lily said ‘I hate you’...declare war with a flower called a tansy.”

• Favorite Victorian word:

  • "Nosegay" or "tussy mussy" — a small, tightly-bound bouquet worn like a corsage or boutonniere (09:03).

• Joking about pun overload:

  • "Botany was a growing field." – Josh (04:50)
  • "My pun sensor is covered with dirt." – Chuck (04:54)

Literary Parody

• Chuck (06:25): "I found a quote from Pride and Prejudice from Jane Austen....The narrator describes, she gave a red rose to tell him that she loved him. Red, rose, red, red, red, red, red, rose, rose..."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:43] Introduction to floriography and its rise in Victorian/Regency times
• [03:15] History: Ottoman Empire’s Selam practice and spread to Europe
• [09:03] Roles of nosegays/tussie-mussies and explanations of mixed-flower symbolism
• [10:09]–[12:58] Deep dive into specific flower/color/condition meanings
• [13:19] Confusion over meanings and nearly 100 competing guides
• [13:55]–[14:53] Ribbon tying, left/right hand symbolism, and negative messages
• [15:06]–[16:32] Acceptance/rejection protocols and returning bouquets
• [16:32] Wearing location and declaration of love vs. friendship

Tone & Style

True to “Stuff You Should Know” tradition, the episode is breezy, light-hearted, and full of good-natured banter as Josh and Chuck share both the factual details and the comical confusion that surrounded Victorian flower codes. Classic SYSK humor intertwines with genuinely interesting social history and little-known trivia.

Final Takeaway

Floriography was a captivating mix of art, romance, and social maneuvering — but also a recipe for major miscommunication unless everyone was in sync! Josh and Chuck make the fascinating (and sometimes goofy) intricacies of “saying it with flowers” as clear as possible...while agreeing we're probably all lucky to just say how we feel these days.