Smile

Summary

Stuff You Should Know – "Smile" (June 9, 2026)

Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and often humorous episode, Josh and Chuck dive deep into the science, history, and cultural significance of the smile. They explore why we smile, how smiles work in our bodies and minds, the evolutionary and social contexts behind different types of smiles, and even tackle the age-old question: does smiling make you happier? Throughout, the duo shares personal anecdotes, classic movie references, and plenty of quirky insights—making this a comprehensive, entertaining guided tour of all things smile-related.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is a Smile? The Muscular Mechanics

• Facial Muscles and Fast Twitch Fibers
  • Smiling is primarily a result of muscle movement involving a lot of fast-twitch myosin fibers, which is why we can make subtle facial expressions but can’t really do the same with a bicep. (Chuck, 04:22)
  • Humans use slower twitch muscles for speech compared to their primate relatives who are often more facially expressive. (Josh, 05:04)
• Myth-Busting: Frowning Uses More Muscles?
  • The common saying “it takes more muscles to frown than to smile” is debunked: "It's a very nuanced thing...I couldn't find anything that could verify that as true." (Chuck, 05:36)

2. Smile Anatomy: The Science of Facial Action

• The Zygomaticus Major and the Facial Action Coding System (FACS)
  • All genuine smiles involve the zygomaticus major muscle (Action Unit 12), which pulls the corners of the mouth up and out. (Josh, 06:48; Chuck, 08:00)
  • Real, joyful smiles also engage the muscles around the eyes (Action Unit 6/orbicularis oculi), resulting in what’s called a Duchenne smile. (Chuck, 08:27; Josh, 09:50)
• Favorite Band Name Tangent
  • Josh proclaims “Action Unit 12” would be the best band name they've ever stumbled upon, surpassing old favorites like “Frozen Poop Knife.” (Josh, 08:55–09:41)
• Can You Fake a Smile with the Eyes?
  • While originally believed you couldn't fake the “true” smile of the eyes, research suggests some people can convincingly mimic a Duchenne smile—so beware! (Chuck, 11:22; Josh, 11:57)

3. The Evolutionary Roots and Animal Kingdom

• Primate Smiling vs. Human Smiling
  • Primate "smiles" are often signs of submission, not happiness, and this may persist in human nonverbal behavior, such as defusing tension or awkwardness. (Josh, 14:25; Chuck, 14:59)
• The Famous Bowling Study
  • In a classic 1979 study, people were more likely to smile during social interaction after bowling than at the actual moment of striking down pins. (Chuck, 14:59)

4. Smiling in Infancy and Innateness

• Baby Smiles: Reflex or Social?
  • Newborn smiles are random, not social. Social smiling appears between 6–12 weeks. (Chuck, 16:09; Josh, 16:46)
  • Babies—master manipulators—learn to time their smiles to maximize caregiver responses! (Josh, 16:46)
• Studies on Blindness and Smiling
  • Smiling develops even in congenitally blind children, demonstrating that social smiling is innate, not merely imitative. (Chuck, 18:34; Josh, 19:24)
• Babies Smiling in Utero
  • 2022 Research: Fetuses smiled after mothers consumed carrot supplements and grimaced after kale, indicating early facial-muscle responses to flavor. (Josh, 17:18; Chuck, 17:45)

5. Smiles Across Cultures

• Are Expressions Universal?
  • Paul Ekman’s research proposed 6–7 universal expressions (including enjoyment)—though methodology is debated. (Chuck, 21:43; Josh, 22:40)
  • Later studies confirm general universality with some nuanced cultural differences.
• Smile Frequency and Social Contexts
  • Countries with high immigration rates or "melting pots" (like the US or Brazil) tend to have more frequent smiling—possibly as a nonverbal tool of social harmony. (Chuck, 23:26; Josh, 23:45)
  • In Japan and China, the “smile” is concentrated in the eyes rather than the mouth—even in emoticons. (Josh, 24:06)
• Competence and Attractiveness Perceptions
  • People who smile are generally seen as happier, more competent, and more attractive—though in some countries (like France and Iran), smiling may be associated with lower intelligence. (Chuck, 24:37; Josh, 25:18)

6. The (Fascinating) History of Smiling

• Why Didn’t People Smile in Old Portraits?
  • Smiling was hard to maintain for long portrait sessions, and culturally it was considered immature or inappropriate. Manual etiquette forbade showing teeth. (Chuck, 30:21; Josh, 30:56)
  • In paintings, a smile was linked to drunkenness, insanity, or childlike behavior. (Josh, 32:39)
  • Smiling in portraits only gained traction in the US in the 1930s, boosted by photographic ads encouraging people to look happy. (Josh, 32:39; Chuck, 33:29)
• YearBooks and the Spread of the Smile
  • Study tracked increased grinning in yearbook photos, peaking in the mid-20th century. (Josh, 33:43)

7. Types of Smiles

• The Duchenne (Joy) Smile
  • Genuine smile involving both the mouth and the eyes (Action Units 12 and 6). (Josh, 09:50)
• Reward Smile
  • Provides positive feedback to a conversation partner. (Chuck, 36:10)
• Affiliative Smile
  • A smile given to strangers to signal non-threat and friendliness. (Josh, 36:30)
• Dominant Smile
  • Asymmetrical smile meant to assert dominance or superiority. “You know if you've been smiled at with the dominant smile because you have a bad taste in your mouth all of a sudden.” (Josh, 36:42)
• Miserable Smile
  • Slight, often asymmetrical smile layered over genuine unhappiness or resignation. Referenced in Melanie Lynskey’s acting (Josh, 37:15)
• Embarrassment Smile
  • Quick, involuntary, lips pressed together and eyes down; difficult even for actors to mimic without genuine emotion. (Josh, 38:42)
• Coordination Smile
  • The “William H. Macy in Fargo” smile: slight, businesslike, signifying cooperation but often insincere. (Chuck, 43:28)
• Uncanny Smile
  • Large grin without eye involvement—creepy, unsettling. Seen in movies like “The Shining” and “Smile.” “…if you look at it, the AU6 is definitely not in effect because the eyes are usually staring while there's this huge grin.” (Josh, 45:48)

8. Does Smiling Make Us Happier?

• The Facial Feedback Hypothesis
  • Darwin theorized outward expressions might reinforce emotions. (Josh, 46:58)
  • Research shows mixed results. A classic 1988 study had participants hold a pen in their teeth (simulating a smile), which led to higher funniness ratings of cartoons. (Josh, 48:33)
  • Newer 2024 research used electric currents to induce smiles, finding that participants judged faces as happier after being made to smile—but results remain primarily self-reported. (Chuck, 49:29)
• Therapeutic Use of the Half-Smile
  • Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) suggests the “half-smile” technique: subtly turning up your lips, which may enhance positivity and approachability without seeming “crazy.” (Josh, 51:09)
• Occupational Downsides: Surface Acting
  • Jobs that require constant smiling (“surface acting”) are correlated with higher rates of alcohol consumption among employees. (Josh, 52:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Frowning vs. Smiling Muscle Myth

  • “If you've ever heard people say it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile, first of all, lightly slap that person in the face with a feather.”
    —Chuck (05:36)

• On the Universality of Smiling

  • “For the most part, you're going to find the vast majority look at someone smiling and associate that with happiness.” —Josh (22:40)

• On Babies’ Manipulative Mastery

  • “They have been found to time their smiles to maximize smiling from their caretaker.”
    —Josh (16:46)

• Best Band Name Discovery

  • “Action Unit 12, I think, is the pinnacle of band names that we’ve ever covered... Not only is it a great name, if you dig into what it means, you’re talking about smiling. It’s the name for smiling. So that’s pretty awesome.”
    —Josh (08:55)

• On the “Miserable Smile”

  • “It is usually asymmetrical and layered on top. And it usually follows a negative expression. So it’s trying to convey, like, you’re not trying to hide that you’re unhappy, and you’re just accepting what’s happening.”
    —Chuck (37:15)

• On Occupational Smiling

  • “They found that service employees who have to engage in surface acting... tend to be heavier drinkers than people outside of the service industry.”
    —Josh (52:05)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–01:44: Opening advertisements, skip to main content.
• 01:44: Episode officially begins. Introduction & topic announcement.
• 03:07: Why we smile, suite of human personality topics, prior episode reference.
• 04:22: Facial muscles, fast-twitch/vs. slow-twitch, primate vs. human expressions.
• 06:48: Anatomy of a smile, the zygomaticus, FACS.
• 08:27: Action units and "smile with your eyes" (Duchenne smile).
• 11:22: Can you fake it? (Duchenne smile debate).
• 14:25: The evolution of smiles, primate submission.
• 14:59: Robert Kraut & bowling smile study.
• 16:09: Babies and smiling—developmental stages.
• 17:18: Prenatal smiling and flavor responses.
• 18:34: Blindness studies: innate social smiles.
• 21:43: Cross-cultural recognition of smiles; Ekman's six (or seven) basic expressions.
• 23:26: Smile frequency in melting pot societies.
• 25:18: Cultural differences: Smile = intelligence or the opposite.
• 30:49: Portraits, etiquette manuals, and the solemn portrait tradition.
• 32:39: Smiling in US photographs, ad campaigns, yearbook grins.
• 34:39: "Types of Smiles" segment begins.
• 37:15: "Miserable smile" discussed.
• 38:42: Embarrassment smile explained.
• 43:28: William H. Macy “coordination smile” moment.
• 45:10: The “Uncanny Smile” (movie villain territory).
• 46:27: Does smiling make us happy? Research review.
• 48:33: The “pen study” and methodology.
• 51:09: DBT half-smile as a therapeutic tool.
• 52:05: “Surface acting” and alcohol consumption in service jobs.

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Tone and Style

True to the quirky, approachable, and conversational tone that Stuff You Should Know is known for, Josh and Chuck blend scientific rigor with humor, pop culture references, and tangents (including an extended rabbit hole about 1970s TV angels). The mix of research summaries and playful banter keeps the discussion accessible and memorable.

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For Further Listening

If you found this fascinating, check out Stuff You Should Know’s earlier episodes on laughing, disgust, forgiveness, and The Scream, all part of their deeper dive into the rich tapestry of human emotional expression.

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Closing Note

This “Smile” episode offers a full-spectrum, highly approachable look at why, when, and how we use our faces to communicate so much more than words ever could. Whether you're curious about physiology, psychology, or history—or just want to know if faking a smile really boosts your mood—this episode will leave you grinning.

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(Ad breaks, tangential off-topic discussions, and non-content sections have been omitted for clarity and focus.)

Transcript

[Chuck Bryant]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human if audiobooks are your thing and you've been meaning to listen to more of them, you should check out A podcast called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audio Club, hosted by Cal Penn. Each episode spotlights standout audiobooks on Audible across all kinds of genres. Sci fi, comedy, romance, thrillers and more. With Cal talking to guests who help break down what makes each story worth listening to. It's a fun, easy way to discover your next great audiobook. Check out Earsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podc. Our listeners love puzzles, paradoxes and hidden patterns almost as much as we do. On TikTok, those fascinations come to life. People are breaking down physics, exploring geology and explaining why the world works the way it does. You'll see impressive experiments, explanations that finally make sense, and connections you didn't expect. It's like having a lab, a lecture hall and science museum in your pocket. TikTok is where wonder is shared, where curiosity turns into discovery, and where millions learn something new every day. Introducing the all new Mazda CX5 featuring more connection hey Google, where's the nearest Pilates class safety that has your back? More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in five films at mazdausa.com fivesides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartradio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And Jerry's here too. This is stuff you should know.

[Chuck Bryant]

What in the world is that?

[Josh Clark]

I'm smiling from ear to ear, grinning and when I grin my teeth come together like a bear trap.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, if you're smiling I bet it's because we are headed out to sea Everybody. On a five nights adults only voyage with Virgin Voyages. This is October 2nd through 7th from New York City to Bermuda. We will be doing our live show and we will be joined by our colleagues and our old pals. Stuff they don't want you to know and stuff mom never told you.

[Josh Clark]

That's right. So we are going to be there from October 2 to 7. We're going to be on that boat to Bermuda from New York and back and you can get more information where

[Chuck Bryant]

[e-mail] stuff come and hang out with us on a boat.

[Josh Clark]

Very nice. Yeah, I think we should specify you shouldn't Expect to be able to get rare with us because, you know, we're happily married.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's right. And what happens at sea doesn't just stay at sea that travels back home and you get divorced.

[Josh Clark]

That's right. Yeah. And you have to go to the doctor sometimes, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, you don't want that.

[Josh Clark]

So we're talking today about smiling. I think it's appropriate that I said I'm happily married, because Yumi actually requested this so long ago that when I went to her last week and was like, do you remember what. What prompted you to. To request smiling a long time ago? And she's like, I don't remember requesting smiling. So it'll forever be a mystery. But I'm glad that we're doing this one because we've done, like, all sorts of other stuff. Laughing, disgust, the scream, forgiveness. Like, there's just this whole, like, aspect of human personality suite that is just kind of slowly assembling into one great person, you know?

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And we did an episode in the early days, I think when we were about three years old, we were podcast toddlers on whether or not smiling makes you happy. So we're gonna recover a bit of that toward the end a little. But we should probably start out by letting everyone know that you use muscles when you smile. It is all muscle movement. And if you want to compare a smile to, like, other dumb, boring muscles, the reason you can smile and make, like, weird kind of faces is because you have a lot of fast twitch myosin fibers in your face.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And that's why you can, like. That's why you can't make a face with your bicep.

[Josh Clark]

I kind of can. It looks like a messed up face, but it's still. Somebody would be like, I see the face in there. It looks a little like Mr. Billy.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, you can make a kick drum beat when you flex those babies.

[Josh Clark]

That's with my other one. So, like, I make Mr. Bill's mouth open and close to the kick drum beat from my other bicep.

[Chuck Bryant]

But how do we compare to our primate friends?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, well, actually, it turns out, Chuck, I thought this was quite interesting, that our primates are actually. Our primate friends are actually more expressive facially because they don't speak.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

That's the idea behind the whole thing. We do know that primates typically are more expressive through their faces than humans are. And the idea behind it, or the explanation for it, is that humans require more slow twitch muscles, the bigger muscles to talk, to move our Faces and our mouths to talk, which primates don't have to do. So we essentially, basically are fast twitch muscles, evolved into more slow twitch muscles. But we're still pretty expressive. So don't be too sad.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. If you've ever heard people say it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile, first of all, lightly slap that person in the face with a feather. Next, move along and say, you know what? Prove it. Because I looked and I couldn't. You know, first of all, it's a very nuanced thing. Like there are a lot of different smiles and a lot of different frowns.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's a big point.

[Chuck Bryant]

And each of those different ones, like, you know, takes different muscles to make those. So for someone just to sort of flatly say, you know, it takes 22 muscles to smile and 100 to frown. I couldn't find anything that could verify that as true or like. I guess the message that they're sending is don't use your muscles. It's better to not use your muscles.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Why bother? Just smile. Yeah, it's funny, I looked all over too, and all I could find were dentists websites, which were pretty confident about that as fact.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, four out of five were.

[Josh Clark]

But you said that your, your, that was great. You said that your, your smiles all include muscles. And not just yours, Chuck, but all people's.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

And it includes a very particular muscle, I think one on each side, the zygomaticus major. These actually pull your, the sides of your mouth up. So I guess the joker, when his face was slashed, it somehow made his zygomatic major constantly contracted.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

I just want to say I'm not sure what's wrong with me right now. I realize that I'm stammering, having a lot of trouble. Hopefully my brain will reset while you're talking. Next. Now.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, I haven't noticed anything. I think you're doing great. So there are actual people who. And boy, they've done a lot of research on smiling and stuff as we go. Like, you'll probably be astounded at how much time and money people have put into this kind of thing. But they have done research and actually sort of like coded the face in the system of muscles so they know what each group does. The facial action coding system, what it's called the facts. Just the facts.

[Josh Clark]

I'm going with faces.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, they couldn't come up with any

[Josh Clark]

m. I think it's implied.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay, I'm going to go with just the faces. Then okay, so like I said, they made various codes for these muscle movements and assign names to them. And they know that all smiles Involve Action Unit 12, which is both of those zygomaticus major muscles contracting. And you know, you said they raised them up or they also raised them out. Because you'll see when you smile, your smile, your mouth gets wider as well

[Josh Clark]

and the whole world smiles with you.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. But if you're really happy and you're not, and we'll talk about the different kinds of smiles, like including fake smiles. But if you're really genuinely happy with something and smiling from joy or you know, being alive, that means your eyes are involved. And that is Action Unit 6.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. So a couple of things here. Action Unit 12, I think is the pinnacle of band names that we've ever covered.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's pretty darn good.

[Josh Clark]

Not only is it a great name, if you dig into what it means, you're talking about smiling. It's the name for smiling. So that's pretty awesome. But it also has a built in abbreviation that's great too. Au12. Maybe even au12.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh yeah. So it'd look good on a logo or whatever.

[Josh Clark]

I really genuinely think that is the best band name we've ever stumbled upon.

[Chuck Bryant]

So did that just Unseed Frozen Poop Knife?

[Josh Clark]

I think so. They could go on tour together, but I just.

[Chuck Bryant]

Does that mean we retire this bit?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know, Chuck. It's possible.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, here's the deal. I think if we don't retire it, we will just have to mention almost every time from now on, like, but it's no AU12.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

But yes. All apologies to Frozen Poop Knife. We will never forget you. And we'll bring you up still.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. They just kicked over their kick drum, so.

[Josh Clark]

No, that was my bicep. So if you take Action Unit 12 and Action Unit 6 together, that's what's known as the Duchenne smile. And we definitely talked about Guillaume Duchenne in our can smiling make you happy episode. Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And in fact, I think we called him Duchenne because the. The translator spelled it wacky.

[Josh Clark]

How?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, I mean, different things. Kane, K A I N E. Shane. S H A N E. That's two different names. Yeah, it's, you know, go AI Translator, I guess.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. But we're going to go with Guillaume Duchenne this time, who is a French neurologist. He also was dabbling with electricity and photography. I saw that he basically existed at this neat crossroad of three emergent sciences that were coming out at the same time. This guy put them all to use and he stimulated people's facial muscles with electricity. There's an extensive set of photographs of him doing this to this poor guy. And this guy's making all these weird facial expressions and Duchenne is coding all of them. But it's kind of hysterical to think that this guy's not purposely making these. He's being zapped with electricity, and that's what's making them. Because the correct muscle combination is being zapped right then by Duchenne.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's pretty funny stuff. So he claimed. And this was sort of a. And I think people thought this was true for a while was, you know, this notion that you can tell a fake smile by the eyes. And that's sort of the dead giveaway. And he. He may have not reinforced it, but he may have sort of planted that seed when he said that the orbicularis oculi, which is Action Unit 6, that we talked about the eyes that would only contract due to the sweet emotions of the soul. Which is a very nice thing to say. But it turns out that's probably not true.

[Josh Clark]

No people can, including Tyra Banks, can make yourself or make themselves, I'm sorry, Smile with their eyes. But there does seem to be some disagreement on whether that can fully be ever fully be reproduced voluntarily. And I like to think that it can't be that there's still some smile out there that's so genuine that it can't voluntarily be reproduced fully.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I think what the deal is, is there are some people who are probably so good at the fake smile that you just don't realize it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Beware of those people.

[Chuck Bryant]

But both of those things can be true. I think what you said is definitely true.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks, man. I want to say one other thing about AU6, Action Unit 6. If you go and look at the faces, codings or facts, it's just like strips of like the mouth or the eyes or something like that. And For Action Unit 6, it is a strip of my eyes. It is very clearly. Somebody took my photo and just cut out the eyes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wow.

[Josh Clark]

And is just showing the eyes. It looks exactly like my eyes. Dude, you should go look.

[Chuck Bryant]

Send me a screenshot. I'm not going to look it up.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I will eventually.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's the agreement we came to.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I think that's fair enough.

[Chuck Bryant]

Two guys who do research for a living, you can't make the other one look anything up.

[Josh Clark]

No, we just send screenshots.

[Chuck Bryant]

So if we're talking about evolution, like, it's a pretty human thing to just, you know, be alive in the world and smile because you're feeling good and having a good day. If you look at something in the. Like, somebody from the primate kingdom and you see that teeth, like, you've. Man, I've seen those chimpanzees bear those teeth, and everyone's like, oh, they're so happy. And that's actually not what they're trying to say to you. And it doesn't mean they're trying to kill you right then either. But it's a sign of submission, apparently. I don't know. I always. I didn't never took it as. They always look stressed out to me. Like, when I see a chimpanzee bare their teeth like that.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I've seen them. It depends on. I think it depends on the rest of the face because I can bring to mind images of chimps doing that. The one I bring to mind more is Clyde from Every which Way But Loose doing that. The orangutan. Yeah, man, he definitely did that. And he didn't seem stressed out, but they definitely played it like he was laughing or something like that. And he surely wasn't.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Josh Clark]

One of the things about that, though, Chuck is smiling through submission, that is. That still survived into humans, for sure. Like, that is something that we do. Not just to say, like, you're an alpha, I'm a beta, but also to say, like, hey, I just want to get along. No. No stress over here.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Or, you know, to basically not be tense, or if an awkward pause comes, both people might kind of smile or something like that. All of that is essentially the same thing as a chimp smiling to signal submission.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. There was a paper in 1979, a pretty classic smiling paper, where these psychologists, Robert Kraut and Robert Johnston, they were notating how people reacted when they went bowling together and found they were more likely to smile when just, like, hanging out and talking than after getting a strike. Which, like, that totally tracks because, like, when you get a strike, you're supposed to act cool. Like, you meant to do that. You're not supposed to turn around and

[Josh Clark]

go, right, for sure. I read a little more about that study. One participant, jesus never smiled. And another participant, an Amish man named Ishmael, smiled almost constantly.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I think what we might want to talk about a little bit, and I know we've covered this before, was babies smiling, because it's about one of the cutest Darn things in the world is when you see a little baby smile at you. That does happen very early. Very newborn infants can smile, but those are sort of just random smiles, like they may have farted or something and are smiling. Not because it's funny. They'll learn that a little bit later and not because they lit it on fire. They'll learn that probably in their tween years.

[Josh Clark]

That's dangerous.

[Chuck Bryant]

Is it really?

[Josh Clark]

I've always heard, why not?

[Chuck Bryant]

You never lit a fart.

[Josh Clark]

I have, but I just escaped by the skin of my teeth.

[Chuck Bryant]

I got you. It's usually just sort of a random occurrence when a very newborn baby smiles about four to six weeks, they start smiling when they wake up and they see you or hear you as we'll see. But it's still sort of indiscriminate. It seems like the social smiling that starts at about six to 12 weeks when they're like, hey, I see mom or dad or whoever I like to see, or I hear their voice and that makes me happy.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly. But apparently they're also master manipulators because they have been found to time their smiles to maximize smiling from their caretaker. So, like, they'll give you a smile so that you'll smile at them for 30 seconds and they'll flash you another one, and there you go, you're smiling again. They learned to do that, like, really early.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I wonder if twins are ever like, hey, watch this.

[Josh Clark]

Kind of. I'm sure. Did you see that. That link I sent you to this or. About the study about babies smiling in utero?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

If you want your paper to. To make the national news, just make it on baby smiles. But this paper from 2022 in the journal of Psychological Science, they gave pregnant women carrot pills or kale pills. And when the women ate carrot pills, the babies smiled like 15, 20 minutes later as it was digested and reached them. When they ate kale, the babies grimaced.

[Chuck Bryant]

I wonder what they did when they gave them the Reese's peanut butter cup.

[Josh Clark]

They just started doing three 60s.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, they started breakdancing.

[Josh Clark]

But one other thing about the study, Chuck, that one of the co authors was named Jacqueline Blissett.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's funny.

[Josh Clark]

I mean, it's true, though. I think it's great.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I know, but it's still funny, right?

[Josh Clark]

Okay, well, yeah. I wonder, though, if her parents were like, we love Charlie's Angels that much.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't get the Charlie's Angels ref.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, Jacqueline Bissette was the. She was the best Charlie's Angel. If you ask me, one of the original three, she wasn't in Charlie's Angels. Jacqueline Bessette.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know who you're thinking of, buddy.

[Josh Clark]

All right, now we do need to look something up. You go ahead.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay, I'll go ahead. All right, so I mentioned hearing, and I planted a little seed there that a little infant baby hearing something could make them smile. And they know this stuff because they've done studies on whether smiles are innate or imitative. And so if you're gonna do a study like this, you might wanna study babies who are congenitally blind. And they have found that it really doesn't make a difference. Blind infants start to smile in response to that voice, just like sighted babies do. And they did another study of congenitally blind athletes at the Paralympic Games. And this one was from 23 different cultures. Cause as we'll see, different cultures, like, smiles might mean different things. And they had the same spontaneous expressions as sighted counterparts, sort of across the board.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Which is pretty awesome. They also found that the children who were studied. I don't remember what study this was in, but basically they observed children who were given reasons to basically mask disappointment with a smile. And apparently, and this is for real, like play schoolers or nursery schoolers, they had them make lists of toys they wanted, and then they gave them a toy that they hadn't asked for, and the kid would mask their disappointment with a little smile. And they found that sighted and non sighted kids basically made the same facial expressions in that situation too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Amazing. Did you look up Charlie's Angels?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I did. I was hoping you would forget Jacqueline Smith.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah, you got Jacqueline, right?

[Josh Clark]

Well, we might just take out the whole thing. You never know.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, well, I guess we'll see. We'll let the listener decide.

[Josh Clark]

I don't know if that's possible.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, not decide, but decide how they feel about it.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. But they won't know about it if we took it out.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, but they wouldn't even hear what I just said then either.

[Josh Clark]

No, we should leave this part in and really confuse everybody.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man. I brought up cultural differences. Jacqueline Smith is 80 years old.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, wow. How's she doing?

[Chuck Bryant]

She's doing great. Hey, listen, I'm not one to comment on people's appearance because I know that's untoward, but Jacqueline Smith does not look like any other 80 year old that I've ever seen.

[Josh Clark]

She is the best angel. You agree, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, she was my favorite, I think. Good actor. I think I had a pretty big crush on Her?

[Josh Clark]

Sure. I mean, for sure. I think everybody had a crush on all of the Charlie's Angels to some extent.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. But I'm with you. I think Jacqueline Smith was definitely the top angel.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, she was great in the Deep, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah, that was a good movie.

[Josh Clark]

I was trying to make a joke. I thought that was Jacqueline Bissette who was in the deep.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, wait, she was in the deep.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, boy.

[Josh Clark]

You're going to take that part out, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, God. Jerry's going to have fun with this one. She's me. Like, I'm gonna pass this one on to Ben. I got stuff going on.

[Josh Clark]

Can't you hear people being like, get back to smiling.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know. All right, back to smiling. I mentioned different cultures because there's the idea of, like, what if I'm in a different culture and I smile at someone and that actually means, like, I hate what you just fed me, or something like that. So they've done a lot of studying over the years. In the 60s, there was a psychologist named Paul Ekman who did experiments where they just showed images of faces to different cultures and then had them pick from a list on what emotion that was. And he was like, all right, here's what I came up with. There are six universal facial expressions. Only six. Anger, disgust, enjoyment, fear, sadness, and surprise. Later he said, contempt. All right, there is a seventh. We'll add contempt. But a lot of people pick that apart because it was multiple choice. And they're like, it's probably a better study. And people have done it since. If you just show them pictures and have them write down what that is and not to pick from your list.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And he also was over their shoulder, pointing to the correct answer whenever they were taking place. But that's not to say that he was wrong. It does turn out that subsequent research, and a lot of it has essentially found that, yeah, there's pretty much universal agreement on what facial expressions mean. There's a lot of disagreement, but for the most part, you're going to find the vast majority look at someone smiling and associate that with happiness.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I think there's some nuance in there, depending on where you are. Interestingly, they did find that people smile more in countries that have a lot of immigration as a whole. Like, countries that are like the United States, that are formed from people from all over the world.

[Josh Clark]

Melting pot.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Like, Brazil is another one. And some researchers have put out and kind of makes sense to me that, like, yeah, when you have a bunch of people living in a melting pot, People generally want to get along, so they're probably using a smile more than you might in a country where like most people are from there.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's like a non verbal way of saying, like, hey, friendly, I'm friendly too. Great.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, totally makes sense.

[Josh Clark]

I think also this one I was unsure about. Countries with low population densities, they have more room to smile. I don't know. Or they just have fewer other people to deal with. Those are my two interpretations.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I agree.

[Josh Clark]

But like you said, there are some nuance to the whole thing. In East Asia, specifically in Japan and China, we. They basically emphasize the eyes, like that's where the smile lay in. Action Unit 6. Me, essentially. And they don't even apparently use the curved line for a smile on their emoticons. It's just the eyes as triangles, basically simulating Action Unit 6.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's kind of fun. Another thing that smiling conveys, or at least I don't know if it conveys it, but people take it this way, is they find people not only happier, but more competent and attractive generally when they're smiling.

[Josh Clark]

Sure, give me a smile, baby.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, no, no, don't say that. In 2015, there was a study that showed photographs of people with different expressions to 44 different cultures around the world. And they found that like in China, in Germany and Egypt, they associated a smile with intelligence. But in Japan, France and Iran, I guess I'm on that sort of a sound they, they thought it meant, or at least they correlated it with lower intelligence.

[Josh Clark]

Like they think you look dippy if you have a big smile in those countries.

[Chuck Bryant]

I guess it depends on the person in the smile.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like Cletus the slack jawed yokel's big toothy smile. Like I could see that.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. What's interesting too is there's different, different countries or cultures have agreed at different periods of time too, as we'll see.

[Chuck Bryant]

Should we take a break?

[Josh Clark]

Let's take a break because I think that was one of the best cliffhangers we've ever come up with for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

We'll be right back. Hey, everybody, here's a fact for you. In the United States, there is a break in every 26 seconds. And that means that somewhere right now an intruder is getting closer. And the problem with most security systems is that they only alert you after the break in has started, and that's too late.

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's what makes Simplisafe different. They use alerts. SimpliSafe's US based live agents. They identify threats on your property and help deter them before they actually break in. So the intruder never gets into your house, the crime is stopped before it even starts.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And another great thing about Simplisafe is they have no long term contracts. They give you peace of mind and great value with their monitoring deterrence plans because they just start at about a dollar a day.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, Simplisafe sent us a setup years back and I still use mine every day.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, and apparently setup you can like do it by yourself in under 30 minutes. So it's a really good value and it doesn't take long.

[Josh Clark]

So if you want to experience the Simplisafe peace of mind, you can take advantage of the SimpliSafe discount offered to stuff you should know listeners. Right now you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com stuff that's half [e-mail] stuff there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Chuck Bryant]

Work can be a little weird. One minute you're in a meeting that could have been an email, the next you're trying to decode corporate jargon that somehow means nothing. And don't even get us started on the quick sync that turns into a 45 minute deep dive.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, well, the truth is, figuring out your career isn't always straightforward. Whether you're trying to grow, pivot, or just stay relevant, it can feel like you're navigating it all on your own. Well, that's where LinkedIn comes in.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. LinkedIn can help you grow your career, helping you confidently navigate your path with insights, ideas and inspiration from your professional community. You can stay up to date with the latest trends in your field, connect with people who get it, and discover opportunities tailored to your goals, your experience and what actually matters to you.

[Josh Clark]

Whether you're looking for something new or just trying to grow where you are, LinkedIn gives you the tools and connections to move forward with confidence. Because LinkedIn is the network that works for you. Visit LinkedIn.com knowstuff to learn more. Hey everybody. We're here to talk to you about Wayfair, who believes that spaces should be functional, they should be comfortable, they should be well designed, and they can be well designed by you.

[Chuck Bryant]

With their help, your updated space should feel more comfortable, inviting and practical for everyday use. And we're talking about outdoor seating, we're talking about grills, talking about major appliances. If you need storage solutions, Wayfair can help you out. Patio, lighting, rugs, decor. It is your one stop shop for Home.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I mean, it's getting nice out. So it's time to think about living outdoors for the next few months. And Wayfair knows that outdoor furniture, it's heavy, it's intimidating to assemble. So Wayfair has stepped in and said we're going to handle the hard part so you don't have to.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right, you can shop. Wayfair verified your shortcut to the good stuff. That means their team of product specialists are going to vet everything by hand using a 10 point inspection. Testing things like, oh, I don't know, quality, materials, functionality and features, and even how long it takes to build that piece of furniture. And the overall experience. Save time, reduce hassle, and improved convenience.

[Josh Clark]

Patio season is here and these deals won't last. So head to Wayfair.com right now to get your outdoor space ready for way less. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home,

[Chuck Bryant]

Foreign.

[Josh Clark]

So, Chuck, we're on to the history part. Shout out to Colin Jones, who wrote a really good article on Aeon. He was the author of the book Smile revolution, colon in 18th century Paris. I've never seen a colon be more useless than the one Colin Jones put into his book title. But regardless, this Aon article was super helpful.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, are you talking about like portrait painting?

[Josh Clark]

The whole darn thing, buddy. Like basically the. The progress of smile. The smile being acceptable in Western culture. It traces a pretty long heritage and it's had its ups and downs, essentially.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, like, I definitely. I mean, it makes sense. But I never knew that like portraits being so serious, like painted portraits was because you can't make a realistic looking smile. Cause smiling again is something ideally that's happening spontaneously. And you can't hold that while you're sitting for a portrait. So that's the reason why all those portraits for so many, you know, hundreds and thousands of years were just more serious looking.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Cause you can't just be like, hurry up.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know, it's no good.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that is pretty interesting too. I guess we talked about something like that in the orthodontics episode. Because I think also there was just like, you just didn't show your teeth. Like that was just etiquette. There was a manual for boys, an etiquette manual that said that decorum forbids you to allow your teeth to be uncovered. Since nature gave us lips to conceal them. And I saw also that there was this general idea that if you were going to laugh, okay, we'd rather you don't but if you're going to laugh silently and laugh with your mouth closed. And there's A painting from 1624 by Frans Hals called the Laughing Cavalier, that if you want to see what that looks like, it's that. And it looks like essentially a smug half smile that's apparently LAUGHING. In the 17th century.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, if you look at old yearbooks, you know, people didn't start smiling till later. You know, teeth were fairly janky for a while. And it's theorized that it's just a holdover from the portrait painting days, where if you sat for a portrait and then later in photography, it's just a more formal sort of thing. It's not a candid. And so you don't just sit there and flash a big smile. But people started doing that eventually. I did. Who helped us with this one?

[Josh Clark]

Olivia did.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Olivia saw some research that said that early photography, too, like long exposures, people couldn't hold a smile. But I kind of called bunk on that. I've seen that online. But by the 1850s and 60s, it was only a few seconds of exposure. Like, the cameras were good enough for that. So I think it had more to do with the holdover. It just wasn't something that people did. Like, smiling like a dope in a painting or a picture was just untoward.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, like you said, smiling like a dope. Basically, in Europe, for hundreds and hundreds of years, smiles were associated with you being immature, you being drunk, you being insane. And like, that's just. That was the way you depicted people, was showing them smiling in, like, a painting, and the viewer would know what you were showing was maybe like a. A patient in an asylum or somebody who was meant to be drunk or something like that. That was the only way you would show it. And in the United States, at least, it wasn't until the 1930s when people started actually smiling for photographs. And it really took off after that because of advertising. Ads for cameras that basically said, hey, you should smile with a picture. What's your problem? Just go ahead and smile. Don't you know it takes more muscles to frown than to smile?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah. They're like, buy the new Kodak so you can capture your dour grandmother in all her majesty.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly. But there was that. Did you mention the yearbook study?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, not a study, just that in yearbooks, it took a while for that to catch on, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, Some study basically tracked it. And then I guess like I said, by the 30s, it really started to take off. And then by the 50s. This is anecdotal, but just from watching Happy Days, yearbook photos essentially became big, goofy grins. Cause just imagine, like, Ralph Malf or Potsy having, like, a solemn look in their yearbook photo. You can't do it. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, I don't have a ton of pictures of my parents growing up, but I think I do have, like, the college portraits of their yearbooks. And they're both smiling. Ish. In those.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, there's. I have one picture of my parents, I think, right before I was born, and they're smiling, and it's like a portrait. They're smiling at each other. My dad looks goofy.

[Chuck Bryant]

Should we talk about types of smiles?

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Boy, you really had me on an edge there. So Ekman, the guy psychologist that I was talking about the study a lot about smiles. He talked about identifying a real genuine enjoyment smile because of the eyes, those Duchenne markers. And that's what we kind of said early on, is that a lot of research has found that, like, the real genuine smiles is in the eyes, but you can still fake that.

[Josh Clark]

Right. But he said that in a real smile. Like, this is why I'm, like, I'm holding out hope that there is a smile that cannot be voluntarily replicated. Ekman said, in a true Duchenne smile, the eye cover fold between your eyebrow and the eyelid, or the top of your eyelid, that actually goes downward a little bit, and then the ends of your eyebrows dip down with it a little bit. You can't do that on your own. You can't do that. Like, I'm having to pull my face right now to make myself do that.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And so next time you're on a blind date, if you're trying to figure out if they are truly, truly enjoying and smiling, just stare as hard as you can at the eye cover fold and see what it reveals.

[Josh Clark]

Bring a caliper with you so you can take accurate measurements of the width of the eye cover fold.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. People have categorized smiles over the years because they, you know, some are just for joy. But a lot of smiles have purposes like you were talking about earlier, like, hey, it's cool here. Like, we just want to get out alive. Right there is the reward smile, which is very eye engaged and offers the feedback to your conversation partner of like, hey, I'm liking what you're laying down here.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Hey, my eyes are up here.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. That's right.

[Josh Clark]

There's affiliative smiles that show friendliness. These are the ones you'll flash a stranger at the grocery store. You know, like, hey, if you're from the South, I'm not going to sneak up behind you and club you with a giant bottle of wine.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

There's dominant smiles, too, which man. Essentially, like, the. The lip will be lifted a little bit. Usually it's asymmetrical. I think it's one of those ones where, like, you just know if you've been smiled at with the dominant smile because you just have a bad taste in your mouth all of a sudden, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Ekman identified 18 smiles. We're not going to go through all those, but I think we should talk about. Did you want to.

[Josh Clark]

No, that's fine.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think we should talk about a couple of them. One of my favorites is the Miserable Smile.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

It is usually asymmetrical and layered on. Layered on top. And it usually follows a negative expression. So it's trying to convey, like, you're not trying to hide that you're unhappy, and you're just accepting what's happening. So I would act that out as the smile. Like, well, I guess this is happening now.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. I would chalk the current reigning champ of the Miserable Smile. As far as Hollywood goes, up to the actor. I don't know her name, but she was in I Don't Feel at Home in this World Anymore. She was the star of that. And then she played Leonardo DiCaprio's wife. And don't look up. She's good at that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

Have you not seen I Don't Feel At Home in this World Anymore? No.

[Chuck Bryant]

Was that a movie or a TV show?

[Josh Clark]

It was a movie. It was an indie movie. Not Tobey Maguire. Frodo. I'm sorry. Frodo. He was in it with her.

[Chuck Bryant]

Elijah Wood. Oh, Melanie Lynskey. She's the best.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Yes, her. Thank you for coming up with that. That movie is definitely worth seeing. It's a. It's a great indie movie. It's good.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, I'll check that out. I love both of them, especially, like her. She's wonderful. She's married to Jason Ritter.

[Josh Clark]

No way.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Great.

[Chuck Bryant]

One of the great couples.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, good.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, Hollywood couples, because, you know, they're usually phonies. They seem pretty real.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Because there I always have that miserable smile.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. What other smiles?

[Josh Clark]

Josh, what's your favorite Miserable smile is my favorite, too, but okay. The embarrassment smile, I think, is kind of funny.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Because it's just so involuntary.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Like, if you imagine somebody actually doing this, it's hard to do and it kind of makes you appreciate what actors do. Like just how hard it is to be a good actor. Because you might be called upon to do an embarrassment smile where you're embarrassed and you smile, it's kind of usually like just barely tilted up. Your lips are pressed together and you're looking downward, maybe even to the side a little bit. And it's just so quick and just so you just can't stop yourself. You just do an embarrassment smile and everybody's like, oh, it's okay. Except for that one guy who's got the dominant smile because you just showed that you're embarrassed and now he knows that you're a mark. Yeah, yeah. That's how those embarrassment smiled.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, well, you know what, let's take a break and I'm going to cover my last favorite smile right after this. I know our timing is just all wonky on this one. That's because we're having fun. So we'll be right back with my favorite smile, Foreign. Hey, everybody, here's a fact for you. In the United States, there is a break in every 26 seconds. And that means that somewhere right now an intruder is getting closer. And the problem with most security systems is that they only alert you after the break in has started. And that's too late.

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's what makes Simplisafe different. They use alerts. SimpliSafe's US based live agents. They identify threats on your property and help deter them before they actually break in. So the intruder never gets into your house. The crime is stopped before it even starts.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And another great thing about Simplisafe is they have no long term contracts. They give you peace of mind and great value with their monitoring deterrence plans because they just start at about a dollar a day.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, Simplisafe sent us a setup years back and I still use mine every day.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, and apparently set up, you can like do it by yourself in under 30 minutes. So it's a really good value and it doesn't take long.

[Josh Clark]

So if you want to experience the Simplisafe peace of mind, you can take advantage of the Simplisafe discount offered to Stuff youf Should Know Listeners. Right now you can get 50% off your system by visiting simplisafe.com stuff. That's half [e-mail] stuff. There's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Chuck Bryant]

Work can be a little weird. One minute you're in a meeting that could have been an email the next you're trying to decode corporate jargon that somehow means nothing. And don't even get us started on the quick sync that turns into a 45 minute deep dive.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, well, the truth is, figuring out your career isn't always straightforward. Whether you're trying to grow, pivot or just stay relevant, it can feel like you're navigating it all on your own. Well, that's where LinkedIn comes in.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. LinkedIn can help you grow your career, helping you confidently navigate your path with insights, ideas and inspiration from your professional community. You can stay up to date with the latest trends in your field, connect with people who get it, and discover opportunities tailored to your goals, your experience and what actually matters to you.

[Josh Clark]

Whether you're looking for something new or just trying to grow where you are, LinkedIn gives you the tools and connections to move forward with confidence. Because LinkedIn is the network that works for you. Visit LinkedIn.com knowstuff to learn more.

[Chuck Bryant]

Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software. Instead of growing your business, this is

[Josh Clark]

where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier.

[Chuck Bryant]

And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters, which is running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for

[Josh Clark]

[e-mail] that's o d o o.com.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right everybody, I'm just going to call this the William H. Macy in his office in Fargo. Smile when Fran McDormand meets him for the first time. It's that smile. It's the coordination smile. And a coordination smile indicates cooperation and acknowledgment. Slightly asymmetrical, and it's sort of slight. But Bill Macy in that scene with the yeah, we'll do a lot count and we'll just shoot those numbers right on over to You. So, like, he's coordinating, he's showing cooperation, but it's still kind of phony.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sort of a business smile, almost.

[Josh Clark]

He's great at that, though, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And it also has, like, I'm just so pathetic. Like, you can't even question me. Like, just overlook me kind of.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. You know, that movie's 90 minutes long, man.

[Josh Clark]

We need to get back to that. Anything, two hours or over means that the producers did not rein the director in.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I agree. Movies are too bloated now. And if anyone ever makes it, like, if a director were to make an argument that we really need that I would just say Fargo and walk out of the room.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And that's all you need to say? Yeah. I've been watching some 90s and 80s movies, and they're definitely like 90 minutes. It's all it takes. That's all it should take. I saw 52 pickup recently.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, who was that?

[Josh Clark]

Roy Scheider and Ann Margreth.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. That's right. Good movie.

[Josh Clark]

It was all right.

[Chuck Bryant]

I love Roy Scheider.

[Josh Clark]

It was much more hardcore than it makes you think it's going to be in the first, like, 15 minutes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Because you thought it was about cards and just, like, throwing them on, playing that game.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Just an hour and a half of that, huh? I've got one more smile, Chuck.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, let's hear it.

[Josh Clark]

The uncanny smile.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay, so you're talking about they made a whole movie franchise around that.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Smile. Right. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It was also the. The Ghost Family and Insidious, the first one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

They all had that uncanny smile. Jack Nicholson might have been the progenitor of the whole thing in the Shining when he's got that smile where he's, like, looking.

[Chuck Bryant]

Here's Johnny.

[Josh Clark]

He's looking, like, over. He's looking. His chin's down, but his eyes are up and he's got that crazy smile on his face.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. It's very unsettling.

[Josh Clark]

It is. That's the uncanny smile. And it will haunt your dreams.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. I didn't know if you had any science behind it.

[Josh Clark]

I looked and I couldn't find anything. The most I could find was that it was contextually wrong and that it kind of set our brains on edge from that. And then also, if you really. Now that you kind of know about the facial coding system, if you look at it, the AU6 is definitely not in effect because the eyes are usually staring while there's this huge grin. And that is not a normal combination.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, I think what's important there doesn't need to be science, as long as everyone agrees that it's scary for movies. Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

What else, buddy? Oh, I think we've reached the best part.

[Chuck Bryant]

Does smiling make us happy?

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So like I said, we did a full episode on this, but that was three years in, and I don't think we were very good at that point. So hopefully this will be better as proved by this episode today.

[Josh Clark]

Right. This was a throwback, wasn't it? Yeah. We should have gone for the second AD break right before we went to listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So the idea that smiling makes us feel happier apparently traces itself back to Darwin.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And Darwin was big into smiling. He saw facial expressions in general as a evidence of vestigial behavior that we had from, like, our primate ancestors. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And there. There have been tons of studies to find out if that's true, and they've come back with, like, mixed results. Some of them are, like, kind of maybe, but others are like, I don't know about that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. It's a tough thing to test because what they do is, like, they have different methodologies. One of the early ones, I think, was from 1988, and they said, you know, they put a pen in your mouth, like, sideways, which will, you know, make sort of a fake assimilation of a smile, I guess.

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's if you have the pen sticking out of your mouth, straight between your teeth. No. Really?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, no, no. I thought it was. I thought they would put it sideways so it would make your lips out. You're saying they just hold it in your teeth like a cigarette?

[Josh Clark]

Yes. In the middle of your mouth. That'll make you smile. And then if you put it, like, in between, like, sideways, that makes you frown. Huh.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not me, buddy.

[Josh Clark]

You got a pen handy?

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I'll do it and I'll text it to you. No, no, I'll make you research it.

[Josh Clark]

Send me a screenshot.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, either way, if you hold that pen between their teeth, they will then ask you questions like, are you happy? Are you not happy? Stuff like that. And look at this thing. Does this make you happy? And I guess that's supposed to indicate that if your mouth is forced into a smile, that you'll be happier. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's the study. That's what they study is just the facial feedback that you're getting showing that you're smiling, that it can happen in the reverse rather than smiling, because you're happy. If you make yourself smile, can that make you happy? Right. And that one, that first 1988 study to keep people from knowing that they were being tested about smiling, they taught. They told them that they were. They were testing out new methods to help disabled people write who didn't. Who didn't have arms. So they were trying to figure out ways to help them write so that people. That's what they thought they were doing. And then they said, here, check out this cartoon. Is this funny or not? And I guess all of the cartoons were Ziggy, so everyone thought they were funny, but the people who were making the smiles thought they were funnier than everybody.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wow. All right. That got way more interesting once I knew how they lied.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, they definitely lied for sure. Never trust a researcher.

[Chuck Bryant]

This one from 2024 carries a little more weight for me because it's not just sticking a pin in someone's mouth. A psychologist named Sebastian Korb of University of Essex did a thing where he ran a little electric current into those fast twitch muscles, which forced, like, a smile to happen for just like a half a second. And then they assessed whether, like a digital image of a face looked happy. So apparently when they induced those tiny little smiles, people were more likely to identify a neutral face as happy.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And the big failing of all of these studies is that they go social psychology at the end, like, are you happy? Do you feel happy? Is this comic funny? Is this neutral face happy? And it just becomes so subjective and self reporting that the jury's still out, I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Am I a comedian? Am I making you laugh?

[Josh Clark]

What am I, a clown? Do I amuse you?

[Chuck Bryant]

I just watched that again the other night.

[Josh Clark]

What is that, Goodfellas? Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, it's still great. You know what's not great is the Aviator. Cause I mentioned that in the Howard Hughes episode. I just watched the Howard Hughes in Vegas bit, but I had recently seen the Scorsese documentary series, and I was like, you know, I should watch all of the Aviator. It's not one of his best.

[Josh Clark]

No, I know. It didn't get a lot of praise. Yeah, it was two and a half hours long too, wasn't it?

[Chuck Bryant]

It was pretty long. It was not 90 minutes.

[Josh Clark]

I'll tell you, there is one more intervention about smiling make you happy. It's from dialectical behavior therapy. Dbt.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

And it employs the half smile, and it essentially tells you to make a little smile so that you know you're smiling, but not that you look like crazy to other people. Right. So Other people can't really tell. They might see that you might look slightly different and maybe a little more approachable than you normally would with a brf. But it has been shown, again, anecdotally, that it actually does increase your sense of positivity. I know that sounds hippie dippy, but I believe it actually works.

[Chuck Bryant]

What's brf?

[Josh Clark]

B. Resting face.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay. I've never heard it in that order.

[Josh Clark]

What do you hear it as?

[Chuck Bryant]

Rbf.

[Josh Clark]

Man, I am off today. We're going to edit that part out too.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think you're doing great. This is a capital episode.

[Josh Clark]

Let's see. Oh, there's one other thing too. One more stuff.

[Chuck Bryant]

Let's hear it.

[Josh Clark]

And again, social psychologists take it with a grain of salt, but they found that service employees who have to engage in surface acting, meaning like part of your job is smiling and seeming happy, whether you are or not, tend to be heavier drinkers than people outside of the service industry.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's sad.

[Josh Clark]

It is. And that explains why hotel reception people are constantly blotto. If you've ever noticed, when you check in, they are wasted to a person. That's why. Because they're forced to smile.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. Makes sense.

[Josh Clark]

You got anything else, man?

[Chuck Bryant]

I got nothing else.

[Josh Clark]

This was. This was great new and improved Smiling Happiness episode.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was new.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I guess that means it's time for listener me.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. Might as well finish this one with a correction, you know?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I think we should. Hey, guys from 2011, first time corrector here.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I wanted to say we. We love the immense amount of work you put into educating so many people on so many topics for so long. My partner and I are so excited to see your live show in Ottawa, Ontario.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

The capital of the Great White North. And yeah, it's probably a good time to mention we're going to six different places in Canada in June and July and we're super excited. We're trying to move some more tickets in a couple of these. Specifically Montreal. So if you're in and around Montreal, I mean, this is it. This is your shot. We'd love to see you there.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so quick, email guys about the a minor historical mix up in the Hindenburg disaster episode. Josh, one of you stated.

[Josh Clark]

Thank you, Chuck.

[Chuck Bryant]

That the US Ace Eddie Rickenbacker took out German ace, the Red Baron. Yeah, Manfred von Richtofen. But that's not the case. I'm sorry. The Red Baron was killed on April 21, 1918, over the Somme. He was Low to the ground, chasing an inexperienced Canadian pilot, Lieutenant Wilfred May. Canadian Royal Air Force pilot Captain Arthur Roy Brown drove steeply to defend May and fired at the Baron's Fokker triplane. While Brown was officially credited with the kill, modern ballistics medical exams and historians favor the theory that the fatal bullet came from Australian ground troops who saw them coming. Specifically, it's widely believed to have been fired by Sergeant Cedric Popkin, or gunners Robert Bowie and William Snowy Evans, as Rich Dofen flew dangerously low over Allied lines. As for Eddie Rickenbacker, he didn't even see active aerial combat until April 1918, the very month the Red Baron died.

[Josh Clark]

So, I mean, I'm not a crackpot, right? Like, that's what we've been taught all these years, that Eddie Rickenbacker took out the Red Baron. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

I have no idea.

[Josh Clark]

This isn't like a Jacqueline Bassett, Jacqueline Smith type thing.

[Chuck Bryant]

I have no idea because I'm not steeped in that kind of stuff. Like, if you say Red Baron, I think of Snoopy.

[Josh Clark]

I do, too, But I'm saying, like, I've never done any World War I flying ace research. This was literally taught to me in school, as far as I can recall.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, hey, I believe that. I'm just saying. I just don't recall.

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's funny. So I wonder who really did it, because Australia's got their people, Canada's got their people. We have our people. Who knows?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. My money's on Snowy Evans.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I think that's great. I'll put my money on Snowy, too. Sorry, Rickenbacker.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And that's anonymous, by the way. That was a guy and his partner who were big history buffs. I'm not sure why I was anonymous. There's nothing. I guess they just don't want their name said. So that's. I guess we'll see the anonymous people in Ottawa. They'll be out there with sacks over their heads.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Anonymous. Yeah, that wasn't so controversial, but okay. We'll definitely always respect your privacy. We'll respect your privacy, too. If you write to us and you're like, do not read my name. We will never do that.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know what I bet it is, is they don't want to be outed as going to that show because they told their friends that they don't really like that wanted to go with them, that they weren't going.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, ouch. I'll bet you're right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Or some friend asks him to move or drive them to the airport and they're like, we're gonna be out of town.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, we're having a painting party.

[Josh Clark]

Let's see. Well, I guess that's it. And if you. Oh, like I was saying, if you want to be like anonymous and even if you want to remain anonymous, send us an email. Send it off to stuffpodcastheartradio.com

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Josh Clark]

Hey everyone, it's Kel Penn.

[Chuck Bryant]

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[Josh Clark]

What? Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

With all new episodes, episodes of Tyler Perry's Divorce, Sisters you've always liked, a little drama, plus a whole new world of movies like Gladiator 2.

[Josh Clark]

Now I will control an empire.

[Chuck Bryant]

Original series like the Shy. Just make sure we protect each other. And live sports like ufc. Welcome to the history books. New home, same family. Your BET favorites are now on Paramount. Subscribe now. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.