Stuff You Should Know: SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist – The Chowchilla Bus Kidnapping

Podcast: Stuff You Should Know
Episode: SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Chowchilla Bus Kidnapping
Hosts: Josh Clark & Charles W. ‘Chuck’ Bryant
Date: September 26, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Josh and Chuck recount the harrowing true-crime story of the Chowchilla school bus kidnapping—a shocking 1976 case in which 26 children and their bus driver were kidnapped, buried alive in a moving van trailer, and held for ransom. The hosts dissect the events leading up to the crime, the ordeal faced by victims, the investigation, the eventual escape, and its traumatic legacy. The episode balances dark subject matter with characteristic SYSK humor and thoughtful analysis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Chowchilla, July 1976

[04:36] Chowchilla was a tiny, tight-knit farming town in California’s San Joaquin Valley, population 4,600.
On the afternoon of July 15, 26 kids (aged 5–14) and their beloved bus driver, Ed Ray, were returning from a summer school swim trip.

Quote:
"It's hard to imagine anywhere in California having 4,600 people living there. But that was the case in the mid-70s in Chowchilla." — Chuck [04:41]

2. The Kidnapping: "Most of Anything Happened to This Little Town"

[06:24] After a few normal stops, the bus was blocked by a white van on Avenue 21. Ed Ray stopped, thinking he was helping stranded motorists, but was soon faced with men in pantyhose masks and shotguns.
The kidnappers commandeered the bus, transferred everyone into two vans (outfitted with partitions and painted-over windows), and drove them around for 11 hours in stifling July heat with no food, water, or bathroom breaks.

Quote:
"When you see a man with a long gun and pantyhose on his head, you're probably being hijacked." — Josh [06:41]

The children endured frightening conditions; one later recalled seeing their captors "up there with the AC going, drinking sodas and having a good old time," while the victims suffered in the back.
[09:36] (Jennifer Brown Hyde recounted this experience years later.)

3. The Burial: Underground Ordeal

[10:01] At 3:30 a.m., the vans reached a rock quarry in Livermore, CA, owned by the lead kidnapper’s family.
The kidnappers had buried a moving van trailer 12 feet underground and forced the children and Ed Ray into it, providing meager rations and crude toilet arrangements. The ventilation system and reinforcements were insufficient.

Quote:
"They buried a moving van line trailer...a total of 12ft underground and have covered it with 4ft of dirt...and told the kids, 'Get down there.' And Ed Ray too." — Josh [10:53]

In a display of carelessness, the perpetrators recorded victim names and contact info on a Jack in the Box wrapper.

Hosts’ Tone:
Aghast at the combination of maliciousness and ineptitude in the crime, but also occasionally incredulous at the kidnappers’ bizarre methods and oversights:
"They made bathrooms in the wheel wells..." — Josh [12:10]

4. Chowchilla Responds: Panic, National Attention, and Near Paralyzing Fear

[14:54] The missing bus triggered immediate panic. The bus was found camouflaged nearby, fueling national headlines and a full mobilization by the FBI and state police.

Quote:
"This kidnapping. News of this kidnapping stopped the bicentennial celebration dead in its tracks. It was the end of it, not just for this town, but for the whole country." — Josh [16:00]

Any possible lead was pursued (including wild Zodiac killer connections), but there were few real clues. The town was in paralyzing stress and confusion as the hours dragged on.

5. The Escape: Bravery and Ingenuity Underground

[19:10] After 12 hours underground with food and air running out—and fearing the ceiling would collapse—14-year-old Mike Marshall, the oldest child there (who wasn’t even supposed to be on the bus), led a desperate escape.
With the help of Ed Ray, they stacked mattresses and used box spring wood to pry open the hatch, then pushed aside the heavy plate and batteries—it took hours.

Quote:
"Mike Marshall...said, 'No, we need to try to get out of here.' But even Mike Marshall said after a while, once Mike Marshall started to try, Ed Ray joined in and started helping and that they might not have been able to get out had a grown man not been helping them..." — Josh [21:00]

The group escaped and stumbled upon a quarry security guard, ending their 36-hour ordeal.

6. Aftermath in Chowchilla: Trauma and National Relief

[24:44] The escape set off enormous relief and celebration. The victims were treated to a hero’s welcome, parade, feasts, and even a trip to Disneyland.
Ed Ray became a local and national hero. Pacific Bell donated new phones and phone lines to Chowchilla in the aftermath; Greyhound donated transportation for their return.
The hosts discuss the trauma endured, especially by the children, and how the ordeal left permanent scars that many still carry.

Quote:
"It may not have been a kidnapping that lasted days and weeks, but that doesn't minimize the trauma that these kids suffered down there." — Chuck [24:44]
"Completely not knowing what was going on above ground and daring to escape not knowing if...all of a sudden that van was going to come speeding down the road." — Chuck [25:00]

7. The Kidnappers: Rich, Spoiled, and Staggeringly Inept

[32:29] The perpetrators were not desperate outsiders but three privileged young men:
- Fred Woods IV (the ringleader, from an insanely wealthy California family)
- James Schoenfeld and his younger brother Richard, sons of a well-off podiatrist
Despite their money, the motive included a failed business deal and, apparently, boredom. The plan was inspired in part by a movie ("Dirty Harry") school bus scene and had been in the works for more than a year.

Quote:
"Fred Woods...came from a long line of California money...they made about $350 million a year in the 70s." — Chuck [33:33]
"He loved to shoot the windows out of his cars with his guns, which he also loved." — Josh [36:10]

8. The Investigation and Arrests

The group’s ineptitude extended to the planning and aftermath:
- An incriminating written plan (not even capitalized, nor destroyed despite a "burn the plan" reminder) was found at Fred’s home (and included a ransom note literally naming Fred).
- The group never got to deliver their ransom demand due to overloaded local phone lines.
The trio split up (Fred made it to Canada under a fake passport, but wrote to an acquaintance in his alias, helping police find him). Richard confessed immediately to his father and lawyer. James tried to flee but was caught at the border.

Quote:
"On that plan sheet...one of the line items was 'burn the plan.' They just didn't get around to that." — Josh [43:53]

9. Legal Outcomes for the Perpetrators

In court, the debate hinged on whether there was “bodily harm.” The initial conviction for life without parole was overturned in 1980, making them eligible for parole due to appeals court ruling that trauma didn’t count as bodily harm.
The Schoenfeld brothers were eventually paroled (Richard in 2012, James in 2015), having demonstrated model prisoner behavior and reform.
Fred Woods, considered the true ringleader and repeatedly violating conduct by running illegal businesses from prison, remained incarcerated and was often denied parole; he eventually bought a mansion outside prison but may never be released.
A 2016 civil payout to victims was described as "enough to pay for some serious therapy, but not enough to buy a house."
[54:42]

10. Lingering Trauma and Cultural Legacy

Though the ordeal lasted just 36 hours, victims continued to suffer nightmares, distrust, addiction issues, and a lifetime of psychological distress.
The town of Chowchilla never truly recovered—many residents and survivors never fully processed the trauma.
The case inspired a profoundly unpopular Lifetime movie and an even less popular folk ballad by Robert Goulet, both mocked by the hosts for their poor quality and tone-deafness.

Quote:
"The Ballad of Chowchilla Ray...is a product of the 1970s in every way. It's unlistenable." — Josh [28:44]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Josh (on Ed Ray's heroism):
"There's plenty of opportunity for, you know, [this] little town to start talking, you know, whispers and that kind of thing. And that doesn't seem to have happened. He seems to have died considered a hero." [21:00]
Chuck (on the rescue):
"Maybe we should send like a few—or not even vans. Send 12 cars. No buses, no vans." [27:26]
(on the irony of the children’s hero’s welcome and trip to Disneyland)
Josh (on the perpetrators):
"He was the product of wealthy, neglectful parents, from what I can tell, and also an education system that seems to have failed him, at least in the grammar portion." [33:50]
Chuck (on trauma):
"They were all damaged." [42:25]
Josh (on ransom plan failures):
"They just didn't get around to [burning the plan]. They left it." [43:53]
Chuck (on community response):
"It was as soon as the town went from the saddest place on earth to the happiest place on earth in the span of 36 hours." [27:46]

Timestamps for Crucial Segments

01:05–04:36: Introducing the Chowchilla kidnapping, its scale, and early reactions
04:36–10:53: Kidnapping details—from bus stop on Avenue 21 to being buried alive at 3:30am
14:54–19:10: Panic in Chowchilla, national media frenzy, failed leads
19:10–24:35: The escape, role of Mike Marshall and Ed Ray, rescue at the quarry
25:34–27:58: Aftermath, trauma, community response, and public celebration
32:29–39:15: Perpetrators’ backgrounds, motives, and bizarre planning
43:13–49:01: Investigation details, arrests, and confessions
51:19–56:28: Court outcomes, parole, damages, and ongoing impact
56:28–57:05: Pop culture fallout (Lifetime movie, Robert Goulet’s failed ballad)

Tone & Takeaways

Josh and Chuck manage a thoughtful balance between empathy for the victims, critique of the perpetrators, and occasional levity—often using humor to highlight the absurdity of the criminals’ mishaps. While celebrating the survival and heroism involved, they never lose sight of the lasting emotional trauma carried by victims and the community. The episode is both a cautionary tale of criminal miscalculation and a reminder of the profound impact such crimes have, regardless of physical harm.

Stuff You Should Know: SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist – The Chowchilla Bus Kidnapping

Podcast: Stuff You Should Know
Episode: SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Chowchilla Bus Kidnapping
Hosts: Josh Clark & Charles W. ‘Chuck’ Bryant
Date: September 26, 2025

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Chowchilla, July 1976

[04:36] Chowchilla was a tiny, tight-knit farming town in California’s San Joaquin Valley, population 4,600.
On the afternoon of July 15, 26 kids (aged 5–14) and their beloved bus driver, Ed Ray, were returning from a summer school swim trip.

Quote:
"It's hard to imagine anywhere in California having 4,600 people living there. But that was the case in the mid-70s in Chowchilla." — Chuck [04:41]

2. The Kidnapping: "Most of Anything Happened to This Little Town"

[06:24] After a few normal stops, the bus was blocked by a white van on Avenue 21. Ed Ray stopped, thinking he was helping stranded motorists, but was soon faced with men in pantyhose masks and shotguns.
The kidnappers commandeered the bus, transferred everyone into two vans (outfitted with partitions and painted-over windows), and drove them around for 11 hours in stifling July heat with no food, water, or bathroom breaks.

Quote:
"When you see a man with a long gun and pantyhose on his head, you're probably being hijacked." — Josh [06:41]

The children endured frightening conditions; one later recalled seeing their captors "up there with the AC going, drinking sodas and having a good old time," while the victims suffered in the back.
[09:36] (Jennifer Brown Hyde recounted this experience years later.)

3. The Burial: Underground Ordeal

[10:01] At 3:30 a.m., the vans reached a rock quarry in Livermore, CA, owned by the lead kidnapper’s family.
The kidnappers had buried a moving van trailer 12 feet underground and forced the children and Ed Ray into it, providing meager rations and crude toilet arrangements. The ventilation system and reinforcements were insufficient.

Quote:
"They buried a moving van line trailer...a total of 12ft underground and have covered it with 4ft of dirt...and told the kids, 'Get down there.' And Ed Ray too." — Josh [10:53]

In a display of carelessness, the perpetrators recorded victim names and contact info on a Jack in the Box wrapper.

4. Chowchilla Responds: Panic, National Attention, and Near Paralyzing Fear

[14:54] The missing bus triggered immediate panic. The bus was found camouflaged nearby, fueling national headlines and a full mobilization by the FBI and state police.

Any possible lead was pursued (including wild Zodiac killer connections), but there were few real clues. The town was in paralyzing stress and confusion as the hours dragged on.

5. The Escape: Bravery and Ingenuity Underground

[19:10] After 12 hours underground with food and air running out—and fearing the ceiling would collapse—14-year-old Mike Marshall, the oldest child there (who wasn’t even supposed to be on the bus), led a desperate escape.
With the help of Ed Ray, they stacked mattresses and used box spring wood to pry open the hatch, then pushed aside the heavy plate and batteries—it took hours.

The group escaped and stumbled upon a quarry security guard, ending their 36-hour ordeal.

6. Aftermath in Chowchilla: Trauma and National Relief

[24:44] The escape set off enormous relief and celebration. The victims were treated to a hero’s welcome, parade, feasts, and even a trip to Disneyland.
Ed Ray became a local and national hero. Pacific Bell donated new phones and phone lines to Chowchilla in the aftermath; Greyhound donated transportation for their return.
The hosts discuss the trauma endured, especially by the children, and how the ordeal left permanent scars that many still carry.

7. The Kidnappers: Rich, Spoiled, and Staggeringly Inept

[32:29] The perpetrators were not desperate outsiders but three privileged young men:
- Fred Woods IV (the ringleader, from an insanely wealthy California family)
- James Schoenfeld and his younger brother Richard, sons of a well-off podiatrist
Despite their money, the motive included a failed business deal and, apparently, boredom. The plan was inspired in part by a movie ("Dirty Harry") school bus scene and had been in the works for more than a year.

8. The Investigation and Arrests

The group’s ineptitude extended to the planning and aftermath:
- An incriminating written plan (not even capitalized, nor destroyed despite a "burn the plan" reminder) was found at Fred’s home (and included a ransom note literally naming Fred).
- The group never got to deliver their ransom demand due to overloaded local phone lines.
The trio split up (Fred made it to Canada under a fake passport, but wrote to an acquaintance in his alias, helping police find him). Richard confessed immediately to his father and lawyer. James tried to flee but was caught at the border.

Quote:
"On that plan sheet...one of the line items was 'burn the plan.' They just didn't get around to that." — Josh [43:53]

9. Legal Outcomes for the Perpetrators

In court, the debate hinged on whether there was “bodily harm.” The initial conviction for life without parole was overturned in 1980, making them eligible for parole due to appeals court ruling that trauma didn’t count as bodily harm.
The Schoenfeld brothers were eventually paroled (Richard in 2012, James in 2015), having demonstrated model prisoner behavior and reform.
Fred Woods, considered the true ringleader and repeatedly violating conduct by running illegal businesses from prison, remained incarcerated and was often denied parole; he eventually bought a mansion outside prison but may never be released.
A 2016 civil payout to victims was described as "enough to pay for some serious therapy, but not enough to buy a house."
[54:42]

10. Lingering Trauma and Cultural Legacy

Though the ordeal lasted just 36 hours, victims continued to suffer nightmares, distrust, addiction issues, and a lifetime of psychological distress.
The town of Chowchilla never truly recovered—many residents and survivors never fully processed the trauma.
The case inspired a profoundly unpopular Lifetime movie and an even less popular folk ballad by Robert Goulet, both mocked by the hosts for their poor quality and tone-deafness.

Quote:
"The Ballad of Chowchilla Ray...is a product of the 1970s in every way. It's unlistenable." — Josh [28:44]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Josh (on Ed Ray's heroism):
"There's plenty of opportunity for, you know, [this] little town to start talking, you know, whispers and that kind of thing. And that doesn't seem to have happened. He seems to have died considered a hero." [21:00]
Chuck (on the rescue):
"Maybe we should send like a few—or not even vans. Send 12 cars. No buses, no vans." [27:26]
(on the irony of the children’s hero’s welcome and trip to Disneyland)
Josh (on the perpetrators):
"He was the product of wealthy, neglectful parents, from what I can tell, and also an education system that seems to have failed him, at least in the grammar portion." [33:50]
Chuck (on trauma):
"They were all damaged." [42:25]
Josh (on ransom plan failures):
"They just didn't get around to [burning the plan]. They left it." [43:53]
Chuck (on community response):
"It was as soon as the town went from the saddest place on earth to the happiest place on earth in the span of 36 hours." [27:46]

Timestamps for Crucial Segments

01:05–04:36: Introducing the Chowchilla kidnapping, its scale, and early reactions
04:36–10:53: Kidnapping details—from bus stop on Avenue 21 to being buried alive at 3:30am
14:54–19:10: Panic in Chowchilla, national media frenzy, failed leads
19:10–24:35: The escape, role of Mike Marshall and Ed Ray, rescue at the quarry
25:34–27:58: Aftermath, trauma, community response, and public celebration
32:29–39:15: Perpetrators’ backgrounds, motives, and bizarre planning
43:13–49:01: Investigation details, arrests, and confessions
51:19–56:28: Court outcomes, parole, damages, and ongoing impact
56:28–57:05: Pop culture fallout (Lifetime movie, Robert Goulet’s failed ballad)

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SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Chowchilla Bus Kidnapping

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Summary

Stuff You Should Know: SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist – The Chowchilla Bus Kidnapping

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Chowchilla, July 1976

2. The Kidnapping: "Most of Anything Happened to This Little Town"

3. The Burial: Underground Ordeal

4. Chowchilla Responds: Panic, National Attention, and Near Paralyzing Fear

5. The Escape: Bravery and Ingenuity Underground

6. Aftermath in Chowchilla: Trauma and National Relief

7. The Kidnappers: Rich, Spoiled, and Staggeringly Inept

8. The Investigation and Arrests

9. Legal Outcomes for the Perpetrators

10. Lingering Trauma and Cultural Legacy

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Crucial Segments

Tone & Takeaways

Further Reading & Viewing

Summary

Stuff You Should Know: SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist – The Chowchilla Bus Kidnapping

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Chowchilla, July 1976

2. The Kidnapping: "Most of Anything Happened to This Little Town"

3. The Burial: Underground Ordeal

4. Chowchilla Responds: Panic, National Attention, and Near Paralyzing Fear

5. The Escape: Bravery and Ingenuity Underground

6. Aftermath in Chowchilla: Trauma and National Relief

7. The Kidnappers: Rich, Spoiled, and Staggeringly Inept

8. The Investigation and Arrests

9. Legal Outcomes for the Perpetrators

10. Lingering Trauma and Cultural Legacy

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Crucial Segments

Tone & Takeaways

Further Reading & Viewing