SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Tylenol Murders, Part I

Summary

Stuff You Should Know: The Tylenol Murders, Part I

Podcast: Stuff You Should Know
Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Date: September 26, 2025
Episode Theme:
A deep dive into the infamous, unsolved Tylenol Murders that terrified the Chicago area in 1982 and changed the way Americans trust consumer products. Josh and Chuck detail the shocking string of deaths, the panic that followed, and the unprecedented investigation, in the first of a two-part true crime special.

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Episode Overview

Josh and Chuck revisit the chilling true story of the Tylenol Murders, in which seven innocent people in the Chicago area died within days after taking cyanide-laced Tylenol. The tragedy triggered nationwide panic, transformed public safety standards, and remains unsolved. This first part lays out the context, the victims’ stories, early investigation efforts, and the mass hysteria and copycats that ensued.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage

• Nostalgia and Contextual Musings (03:28–07:05):
  • Josh and Chuck reminisce about pop culture and the general mood of 1982: a year marked by unease, airline disasters, notorious crimes, and growing public anxiety.
  • They reflect on how bad news dominated the TV evening news and shaped childhood fears.
  • Quote [07:05, Josh Clark]: “Nothing came close to taking over the national psyche like the deaths of seven people beginning on September 29, 1982, in Chicago, Illinois.”

Introducing "The Tylenol Murders"

• What Was Tylenol? (08:08–09:12):
  • The hosts explain Tylenol’s ubiquity, market dominance, and why “everyone took Tylenol for everything.”
  • Tylenol contained acetaminophen, considered gentler on the stomach than aspirin.
  • By 1982, it had 37% of the U.S. pain relief market.

The Murders Unfold

• Victim Narratives (09:12–17:14):

  • Marianne Kellerman: 12, died suddenly after taking Tylenol for a sore throat. [09:12–10:29]

  • Adam Janis: 27, died after taking Tylenol for chest pains. His death triggers further tragedy in his family. [10:35–11:34]

  • Mary Reiner: 27-year-old mother of four, recently postpartum, dies after taking Tylenol. [12:18–12:51]

  • Mary McFarland: 31, collapses at work after taking Tylenol for a headache. [12:51–14:07]

  • Stanley and Teresa Janis: Adam’s brother and sister-in-law die after taking Tylenol from Adam’s house while grieving, within minutes of each other. [14:07–15:45]

  • Paula Prince: 35, flight attendant, found dead with Tylenol bottle open, purchased the same day as previous deaths. [16:28–17:14]

  • Quote [10:41, Josh Clark]: “People don’t just drop dead, no matter what you see on TV or in the movies or whatever. Dropping dead inexplicably is a really biz when you’re a healthy person, it just doesn’t happen.”

Probing the Cause: The Cyanide Discovery

• Medical Investigation & Cyanide’s Horror (20:49–27:16):
  • Michael Schaefer, medical examiner, tests Marianne Kellerman’s Tylenol, discovers some capsules filled with 65 mg of potassium cyanide (lethal dose for adults: ~50 mg).
  • Cyanide’s mechanism: blocks cells’ ability to use oxygen, causing convulsions, bright red skin, and agony before death.
  • Quote [24:03, Josh Clark]: “Cyanide is no joke… It attaches to a protein called cytochrome C oxidase, and that’s about the worst protein it could go after. Because we really need cytochrome C oxidase to breathe.”
  • Quote [25:52, Chuck Bryant]: “You’re gasping for air, you’re breathing in air. Nothing’s happening… I can’t imagine anything more horrifying.”

How Did Authorities Realize It Was the Tylenol?

• Connecting the Dots (27:16–30:46):
  • Tylenol bottles are collected as evidence almost by chance.
  • Multiple figures credited with making the connection:
    • Fire captain Philip Cappotelli (prodded by friend of a victim’s mother)
    • Nurse Helen Jensen, public health nurse, who was ignored at first but persisted.
  • Within 36–48 hours the Tylenol link is widely acknowledged.
  • Quote [29:56, Josh Clark]: “Even though she was like a public health director, she was still a nurse and people wouldn’t listen to her.”

Public Panic & Immediate Response

• Chicago’s Warning, Nationwide Fear (30:46–34:59):
  • Cook County’s Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. Edmund Donahue, gives a press conference telling the public to stop using Tylenol.
  • Mayor Jane Byrne orders flyers, police loudspeaker announcements, and a citywide awareness campaign.
  • Poison control centers are overwhelmed with calls.
  • 90% of Americans were aware of the Tylenol murders within a month.
  • Quote [31:54, Josh Clark]: “If you are still standing and talking to us, you’re probably okay.”

Copycat Crimes and Ripple Effects

• Tampering Epidemic (34:59–37:40):
  • Over 270 product tampering reports and at least 36 confirmed tampering cases nationwide followed the Tylenol deaths.
    • Products: other painkillers (Excedrin contaminated with mercuric chloride), nasal sprays, eye drops, food items.
  • Mass recalls, Halloween cancellations, and widespread public fear.
  • Quote [35:38, Chuck Bryant]: “The most chilling part of all this to me—may be the copycat stuff…36 people across the country that wanted to kill people and just saw an idea and were like, oh, that’s what I’ll do now.”

The Investigation Begins

• Law Enforcement Response (39:53–48:05):

  • Authorities quickly form the Tylenol Task Force (aka “TYMURS”).

  • Investigation expands to FBI, Illinois State Police, and FDA.

  • All tainted bottles traced to lot MC2880—but from multiple plants and sold at several independent stores, ruling out contamination at the factory level.

  • Leading theory: a “Mad Poisoner” bought Tylenol off the shelf, opened and adulterated the capsules with cyanide, resealed, and returned them to stores.

  • Quote [47:07, Josh Clark]: “The main theory for the Tylenol killings of 1982 in Chicago is the Mad Poisoner theory.”

Averted Tragedy and the Unfolding Mystery

• Near-Miss & End of Part I (48:44–49:13):
  • Another contaminated bottle is discovered; a woman is saved by her sister-in-law who suggests taking buffered aspirin instead.
  • Brings home the randomness and danger—unsuspecting, everyday victims narrowly escaping death.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Josh Clark [07:05]: “Nothing came close to taking over the national psyche like the deaths of seven people beginning on September 29, 1982, in Chicago, Illinois.”
• Chuck Bryant [10:41]: “People don’t just drop dead, no matter what you see on TV or in the movies or whatever. Dropping dead inexplicably is a really biz when you’re a healthy person, it just doesn’t happen.”
• Josh Clark [24:03]: “Cyanide is no joke… It’s a very small molecule… It’s about the worst protein that cyanide could attach itself to, because we really need cytochrome C oxidase to breathe.”
• Chuck Bryant [25:52]: “You’re gasping for air, you’re breathing in air. Nothing’s happening… I can’t imagine anything more horrifying.”
• Josh Clark [29:56]: “Even though she was like a public health director, she was still a nurse and people wouldn’t listen to her.”
• Josh Clark [34:59]: “That same product was now killing people.”
• Chuck Bryant [35:38]: “The most chilling part of all this to me—may be the copycat stuff.”
• Josh Clark [47:07]: “The main theory for the Tylenol killings of 1982 in Chicago is the Mad Poisoner theory.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:28–07:05: Setting historical context and atmosphere of 1982
• 09:12–17:14: Victim-by-victim breakdown of the seven deaths
• 20:49–27:16: Discovery of cyanide poisoning and its biological effects
• 27:16–30:46: Investigators begin linking deaths to Tylenol; role of key individuals
• 31:54–34:59: Nationwide panic, government/media response
• 34:59–37:40: Copycat crimes and tampering scare
• 39:53–48:05: Police investigative efforts and emerging theories
• 48:44–49:13: Story of a potential 8th victim narrowly escaping

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Tone and Style

Josh and Chuck maintain their signature conversational, lightly irreverent, sensitive-yet-inquisitive tone. Personal asides, references to 1980s culture, and moments of levity are interspersed to make the grim subject more approachable, but they remain appropriately respectful to victims and the seriousness of the case.

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Closing

The episode ends with the investigation at a crossroads, the “Mad Poisoner” theory emerging, and audiences left waiting for Part II. The broader aftermath—regulatory changes, further clues, and suspects—is deferred to the next installment.

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For more on the Tylenol Murders, listen to Part II.

Transcript

[Podcast Host (Intro/Outro)]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Josh Clark]

Hey, everybody. If you care about what's in your vitamins, you're going to love now. Now Foods employs over 150 scientists who all share an obsession with quality. Now does comprehensive testing for everything from pesticides and contaminants to potency. And their obsession with quality means they never settle for good enough. And when it comes to the vitamins you take, neither should you. And now, B12 shots provide a full spectrum of B vitamins, including a 10,000 microgram blast of vitamin B12 in convenient on the go packets. They're sugar free and vegan in a delicious mixed berry flavor. Visit nowfoods.comstuff to learn more. Now up is one of my favorite of our true crime episodes on the poisoning deaths of at least seven people in the Chicago area back in 1982. What makes this case so unsettling is that there doesn't seem to be any connection whatsoever between the victims and the killer. The murderer just seems to have been a mad poisoner. Like most good true crime mysteries, this one is also unsolved. Enjoy.

[Podcast Host (Intro/Outro)]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. There's Josh. Not me twice. There's Chuck. Guest producer Josh is back in the house. Yeah. And there's little Chuck in your pocket.

[Chuck Bryant]

Remember Little Elvis?

[Josh Clark]

I was just about to say that. You got that right, Tyne.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man, what a great sketch.

[Josh Clark]

It really was. That was Nicolas Cage, wasn't it?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, man. Did you ever see Mandy?

[Josh Clark]

Yes. It was terrible. I don't care what anybody else says.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did you hate it?

[Josh Clark]

Terrible, terrible movie.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, Noel and I talked about it on Movie Crush. He's seen it like four times, thinks it's the best thing ever.

[Josh Clark]

Come on, Noel.

[Chuck Bryant]

And he was like, people either love it or hate it. And I was like, actually, I was kind of in the middle.

[Josh Clark]

Were you really?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean I told him, young Chuck, like 22 year old college Chuck would have probably liked it a lot more.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

But today Chuck was kind of like, eh, I get it.

[Josh Clark]

Like, sure, sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Parts of it were fine.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. To me, spending an hour Doing character development, but not successfully making you care about the characters.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, good point.

[Josh Clark]

Just really irked me.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wow, you had structural issues.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that was really the big thing. I also thought Linus Roach, very, very odd for casting, but.

[Chuck Bryant]

Who's that? Which one was that?

[Josh Clark]

The main bad guy. The cult leader.

[Chuck Bryant]

That was weird.

[Josh Clark]

Very weird.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't even know him.

[Josh Clark]

But he's from Law and Order and, like, some other stuff. You gotta get into Law and Order, Chuck. See how much you're missing out on.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's becoming a bit.

[Josh Clark]

So did we start recording yet?

[Chuck Bryant]

I think so.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I already welcomed everybody to the podcast.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

So, Chuck, we are. This is some true crime stuff we're getting into here.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

But I feel like we need to set the tone right, because this isn't. This didn't happen just yesterday. This happened way back in 1982 in Chicago, Illinois. And I remember this, though. I was like 6 at the time.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was one of my favorite years.

[Josh Clark]

Because of this? No, no, no. The opposite of that. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Mainly because of movies.

[Josh Clark]

What was so great about 1982?

[Chuck Bryant]

Look it up, man.

[Josh Clark]

Well, I was kind of hoping ET Blade Runner. Oh, really?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

That was some of the best movies.

[Josh Clark]

Do you know I didn't see Blade Runner until I was 40?

[Chuck Bryant]

That's not true.

[Josh Clark]

Yes, it is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, really?

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

The original.

[Josh Clark]

The original Blade Runner, huh?

[Chuck Bryant]

Did you like it?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it was good. I like the second one too. You're like.

[Chuck Bryant]

But they spent way too much time on character development. Yeah. And I just did a little poking around about 1982, and it was. It was a good year for an 11 year old, but it was an uneasy time in America.

[Josh Clark]

Why?

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, for a bunch of awful things happened that year, and I don't know if it was any more or less than other years, But Air Flight 90 crashed into the Potomac River. Remember that?

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

In Washington, D.C. the plane crashed in.

[Josh Clark]

The river, didn't it? Hit a bridge?

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe. But there was like a daring icy river rescue.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, really?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. 78 people died, though. That same day, a Metro train in D.C. derailed. Killed three people. February was when Wayne Williams was convicted.

[Josh Clark]

Gotcha.

[Chuck Bryant]

And that was just the end of a lot of unease for years. Klaus Van Bulow was found guilty of attempted murder of his wife in March.

[Josh Clark]

I didn't make it to the end of Reversal of Fortune, so I honestly didn't know what happened to Klaus.

[Chuck Bryant]

Guilty in June was the murder of Vincent Chin, who was a Chinese American who was beaten to death by Two men in Michigan thinking he was a Japanese, and they were, like, stealing their auto work.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, my God.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know, right? And then July 9, Pan Am Flight 759 goes down in Louisiana, kills all 146 people on board, plus eight more on the ground. And then in September, early September.

[Josh Clark]

Please stop.

[Chuck Bryant]

This was when. I know, man. Remember planes used to just crash a lot.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that never happens now.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not as much, but. Yeah. Weird that we're recording this in the midst of more plane crashes. And then early September was when that paperboy in Iowa was kidnapped and never seen again. Johnny Goettsch.

[Josh Clark]

I don't know that one.

[Chuck Bryant]

That was a big deal, too, because it was, you know, the paperboy. And there was this false story about a pedophile ring from politicians, and that turned out not to be true, but he was never found again.

[Josh Clark]

So basically everything that's going on today is just a rehash of 1982. It sounds like.

[Chuck Bryant]

I just remember being about that age and they're just the nightly news sort of just being a horror show and not politically speaking. You know, like real bad incidences occurring.

[Josh Clark]

Well, yeah. Plane crash, like, just about at any age. Like, that'll. That'll bring you down if you see that on the news. For sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Because, you know, when you get on a plane, you think maybe this plane will go down while I'm on it, and that would be terrible.

[Chuck Bryant]

Although I wasn't flying at 11, so.

[Josh Clark]

All of those things you just mentioned, sweep them totally off the table.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

Because come the end of September of that year, nothing else mattered but what we're about to talk about now.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

Nothing. Nothing came close to taking over the national psyche like the deaths of seven people beginning on September 29, 1982, in Chicago, Illinois.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And one of the articles I read about this. I mean, are we trying to keep it a secret? It's a show title, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think they're gonna have to figure it out. So. Yeah, go ahead.

[Chuck Bryant]

The Tylenol Murders.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. You're like, oh, no, no.

[Josh Clark]

But that comes up in part two.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah. This is a two parter as well.

[Josh Clark]

So buckle in, everybody.

[Chuck Bryant]

So I was doing some research, though, and I saw one article that said something about the first domestic terror incident in the United States that nobody's ever heard of. I was like, what? Who hasn't heard of this?

[Josh Clark]

A millennial wrote that headline.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I have to say, Josh, on the way in here, I told him tylenol Murders. And he went.

[Josh Clark]

He Goes, what's Tylenol, you old codger?

[Chuck Bryant]

We should probably say what Tylenol is, huh?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess. Just in case you are a millennial and you've never heard of Tylenol, but Tylenol was and still is an over the counter pain reliever. It's like you have aches and pains and apparently, what's crazy, people would take Tylenol, whatever was wrong with them, because now you can go get like, you know, aspirin and Advil and Aleve. There was no Aleve back then. That was a 90s drug. There's way more over the counter pain relievers now than there were back then. Back then, Tylenol was basically it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's acetaminophen, which is different than aspirin. And I think a lot of people just think those are interchangeable.

[Josh Clark]

Right. The reason I believe Tylenol became so big is because aspirin upsets a lot of people's stomachs. Tylenol does not. Or it's not supposed to. And that's why it came out of nowhere and just took over the aspirin market. I think by 1982, Tylenol had 37% of the market.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's pretty good.

[Josh Clark]

Cornered. Yeah, almost half.

[Chuck Bryant]

Especially since some of the other aspirins have been around since 19th century.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So it makes sense then that when a little girl named Marianne Kellerman complained that she had a sore throat and wasn't feeling too good at like 7am on Wednesday, September 29, 1982, her parents said, just take an extra strength Tylenol and go back to bed, man. For a sore throat.

[Chuck Bryant]

Can you imagine the guilt?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, no.

[Chuck Bryant]

These parents feel.

[Josh Clark]

Well, don't blow it. We haven't said what happens to Marianne Kellerman yet.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think everybody knows. Yeah. She got up, said, I'm sick. He said, take this. The father said he heard her going to the bathroom and closed the door, then heard something drop and went to the door saying, are you okay? You're okay? No answer. Opened the door and there she is on the floor. Taken to the hospital, but died very quickly.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Probably was dead when she went to the hospital, was pronounced there. And they suspected this is just a little 12 year old girl, a middle school girl, went to Jane Addams Middle School. They think she died of a stroke. That's what they thought happened to her. They were just so baffled that they're like, it had to have been a stroke. That's the only thing that can come on like this.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So that's 7am the day is just beginning, and one atrocity has already happened.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, this is a very bad day in the history of Chicago. September 29, 1982.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, absolutely. And it started early Adam Janis, who we'll detail his story, but put a pin in this one too, because he figures in even more prominently in a minute. But a little bit later that same morning, this gentleman, Adam Janis, he's 27 years old and lived in Arlington Heights, another Chicago suburb, and he died. And they think that this is a heart attack. He complained of chest pains after he had driven his daughter's neighbor home from school. Said, I'm gonna take the day off. Comes home, eats a little lunch, takes two extra strength Tylenol that he bought from a local drugstore, collapses in front of his wife, and by, you know, a few minutes later, when the paramedics arrive, he was dead.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And again, like you said, they said heart attack because he'd been complaining of chest pains, which had nothing to do with it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

But just like Marianne Kellerman took an extra strength of Tylenol for a sore throat, he took some extra strength Tylenol for some chest pains. This is just what people did back then.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And that's what complicated it a little bit at first, was that, you know, if you take the Tylenol, it means you felt bad already. So obviously, you know, they're gonna be saying, like, wait a minute, chest pains or sore throat, like, how does that figure in? And it didn't.

[Josh Clark]

Plus, also, what made this even more baffling is that Marianne Kellerman was 12 and healthy. Adam Janis was 27 and healthy, and all of a sudden they just dropped dead. People don't just drop dead, no matter what you see on TV or in the movies or whatever. Dropping dead inexplicably is a really biz when you're a healthy person, it just doesn't happen.

[Chuck Bryant]

Next we have Mary Reiner. Same day, same day. This is still all on the same day. She's 27 years old, she's feeling a little dizzy. She had just come home from the hospital after having given birth to her fourth kid a couple of days before. Super, super sad, all of these are obviously. But being just a brand new mom for the fourth time is just so tragic. Then by 3:45, she was so ill, she was rushed back to the hospital and again died very, very quickly.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And like Adam Janis collapsed in front of his wife, she collapsed in front of her young 8 year old daughter. One of her children Sar. And yeah, when she was taken to the hospital, they pronounced her dead as well. This is mid afternoon. Mary McFarland was up next. She was over in the suburb of Lombard and she worked at an Illinois Bell Phone Center. Where do you remember, like, you go get your phone, like the rotary phone. You would actually lease your phone?

[Chuck Bryant]

I wasn't involved in that process, but we had them in our home.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, well, your parents went to place.

[Chuck Bryant]

I never knew that. I figured they just bought that stuff.

[Josh Clark]

No, there was like a store where you would go. It's like the phone company's retail store, and you would go and be like that pink one.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's like smartphones today, kind of. Same model?

[Josh Clark]

Kind of. Yeah, I guess so. But this was with a big clunky rotary phone and you had to pay extra for the extra long cord. Well, Mary McFarland worked in one of these stores, and at about 4:00 clock at the Illinois Bell Phone center, she was. She had a massive headache that just came on out of nowhere. And she went in back and got some extra strength Tylenol out of her purse and took a couple of them and within minutes collapsed in the store.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, she was young as well. She was 31 years old, mother of two. And then, remember I was talking about Adam Janis a few minutes ago, his family goes to the hospital. Obviously, everyone converges there, he passes away, and so the family makes their way home to begin mourning and just sort of trying to reconcile what had just happened. His brother Stanley, who was only 25, and then his wife Teresa, who was only 19, are both just overcome and worn out and have headaches. So they're at Adam's house, they go to his medicine cabinet, get out the Tylenol that he took completely unknowingly, obviously. And Stanley hits the ground, foam comes from his mouth, his eyes roll back in his head. Everyone's freaking out. And a few minutes later, his wife collapses and they call the ambulance. By the time the ambulances get there, I think Stanley died that day. And Teresa somehow managed to live a couple of days.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, she hung on and I don't know if, like, her dose was lesser or what, but she survived for a couple of days after that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, my guess is that there just wasn't as much cyanide in the capsule she took.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did I just give something else away?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, you did. So Stanley took his Tylenol first, and then Teresa took hers. And one of the paramedics noted, like, Teresa was the one that called the ambulance out to Come out for Stanley. And when they get there, they're both like on the ground and they're like, what's going on? And one of the paramedics said everything that was happening to the guy happened to the woman like a couple minutes later.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Like she was just following him through this process of like basically systemic organ failure.

[Chuck Bryant]

And this is the same day that the, his brother had passed away.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. This is about five, six hours, six hours after Adam Janis had died then finally.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know this is all tough to go through everyone. We almost selected this as our next live show.

[Josh Clark]

I'm really glad we did. That'll be a good idea because I mean, can you imagine trying to liven this up with some jokes?

[Chuck Bryant]

I thought at the time I was like, nah, we can do that. But yeah, the more I got into it, I was like, yeah, this is probably not good live material.

[Josh Clark]

Right? We should have a rule of thumb that any story that begins with the death of a 12 year old girl probably so is not live show material.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think you're right. So finally we have Paula Prince. Paula Jean Prince. This is a couple of days later. This is not the same day. This is on Friday evening. She was a 35 year old flight attendant and she was found dead in her apartment after police responded for a welfare check that her sister called in saying, hey, you know, I know she's a flight attendant and all, but no one knows where she is. Can you go check on her?

[Josh Clark]

A welfare checkup.

[Chuck Bryant]

And they finally found her and she was gone.

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Very, very sad.

[Josh Clark]

She was found in her bathroom with a bottle of extra strength Tylenol still open on the counter. And she, they looked into her receipts and found that she had purchased it on Wednesday, September 29th.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. So at the end of this very short span of time in the Chicago area, we have seven people dead. And I feel like that's a good time to take a message break. Yeah, yeah.

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Chuck Bryant]

You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own with a job in home care. These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care, retirement options and free training. They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime. Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply. That's oregonhomecarejobs.com.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats. Now through October 7th. You can get early savings on your Halloween candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's Pumpkins, Snickers Miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, raw sugar, milk chocolate, caramel, Jack O' Lanterns, Brock's Candy, Corn Charms, Mini Pops, and more. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more detail.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, Chuck, so you said cyanide. How did you know that?

[Chuck Bryant]

Because I was 11 years old and I watched the nightly news like all 11 year olds did.

[Josh Clark]

You just called it. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Just me and Brokaw. Dan Rather.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Koppel.

[Josh Clark]

Yep.

[Chuck Bryant]

Who else?

[Josh Clark]

That was it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Peter Jennings?

[Josh Clark]

He came a little later, but sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Was he?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, yeah, he came after somebody.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I mean, Cronkite wasn't still around, was he? Or was he?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. I don't think so.

[Chuck Bryant]

I was kind of into the news as a kid a little bit.

[Josh Clark]

Well, yeah, I mean, that was where you got your news back then.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. You would watch the evening news. It's Very strange to think about now with the up to the minute news cycle, so.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah, I know how much more innocent things were back then.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know.

[Josh Clark]

So remove yourself from the benefit of hindsight or the benefit of Dan Rather's insight and put yourself in the shoes of the people in Chicago. Right? Yeah. These are seven different deaths, I think, from five different townships in the greater Chicago area, including Chicago. Paula Prince, the last person to die, lived in Chicago. These people aren't talking about. These people have no idea what's going on. It's just that there were five. Seven separate baffling deaths.

[Chuck Bryant]

You keep saying five. You want fewer people to be dead.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I do.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's good.

[Josh Clark]

My wishes aren't working, though. It just so happens that the ambulance, the paramedics that showed up to attend to Mary Ann Kellerman, the first girl to die, they were just logging everything because it was such a baffling thing. And they logged in her Tylenol.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Logged as in collected.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Took it as evidence to maybe look into, who knows? But they took the extra strength Tylenol that she had taken, not thinking anything of it, but just basically throwing anything at the wall to see what stuck.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I'm sure the dad was like, you know, she went in, took some Tylenol and dropped dead.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

So it probably made sense, even though it's just Tylenol, to say, like, well, hey, let's at least take this in.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. And that Tylenol. Right. Because that bottle of Tylenol made its way into the hands of a medical exam whose name was Michael Schaefer. And Michael Schaefer tested the Tylenol and was rather surprised to find that some of the capsules had not Tylenol in it, but 65 milligrams of potassium cyanide. And it takes about 50 milligrams to kill a healthy adult.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, some of them, I don't think they were all exactly the same, but some of them had been completely emptied of any acetaminophen and completely filled with cyanide.

[Josh Clark]

With cyanide, Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, it was. Was someone intent on for sure killing people?

[Josh Clark]

Yes. Because cyanide is no joke. No, it's a really, really small molecule. And it normally attaches to metals outside of the body, which is why you have minerals, I guess, which is why you have potassium cyanide. When it goes into the body, when you ingest it, however you ingest it, whether it's from a Tylenol capsule or breathing cyanide gas like they used to use to execute people with.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, they stopped using it for executions because it was such a brutal death.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's a very cruel, painful way to die in the body. It detaches from its mineral or metal and it attaches to a protein in the body called cytochrome C oxidase, which doesn't sound like it'd be a big problem, but it turns out that that's about the worst protein that cyanide could attach itself to. Because we really need cytochrome C oxidase to breathe.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, basically. I mean, this sounds like such a cruel thing because it's just rapid cell death. And it's not like your throat closes up and you can't breathe. You're inhaling oxygen and you are technically taking breaths, but the oxygen is not getting in the cells.

[Josh Clark]

No, it's not. Because that cytochrome C oxidase is what helps transport the oxygen and allows the oxygen to be used for energy. Y so if the potassium is clinging to it, the oxygen can't. It just stays in the bloodstream and it doesn't get used by the cells. And since your central nervous system is the most oxygen hungry system in your entire body, does a lot of work. It starts to shut down first. And when your brain and your spinal cords start shutting down, all sorts of things happen. Your lungs start shutting down. Your heart, God bless it, keeps beating for minutes after the rest of your body shut down. So you're not technically dead. And they're not sure exactly how long the pain and excruciation of dying from cyanide lasts. But they think you're probably conscious and aware and freaked out for about a minute at least. And your heart may continue beating for three or four minutes after that. So it's not a pleasant death at all.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I mean, you're gasping for air, you're breathing in air. Nothing's happening. Like I said, Stanley Janis, he was foaming at the mouth and his eyes rolled back in his head in front of his family. It's just like, it's awful, like writhing on the floor, gasping for air. You're breathing, but it's not doing anything. It's just. I can't imagine anything more horrifying.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Because your central nervous system has kind of fallen out of its. Out of control or rhythm. Convulsions are usually a hallmark of cyanide poisoning.

[Chuck Bryant]

And then you turn bright red at the end of it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, your skin a cherry red, they said. Because when your body has gotten rid of oxygen to your cells and the oxygen becomes depleted. Your skin kind of turns like a rusty brownish red. But because it can't unload that oxygen when you're dead, it stays a bright red and your skin turns bright red. And then the other real telltale sign is your breath will smell a bit like almonds.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, not a bit. I mean, these bottles supposedly were really pungent with bitter almond. And unless you know what that means, then you're probably not clued in. You know, like, I wouldn't have known if I opened a bottle of Tylenol and it smelled like bitter almond. I'd probably be like, huh, right. It's a nice smell, actually.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I like this Tylenol. Yeah, I guess they have a new almond flavor.

[Chuck Bryant]

Awful.

[Josh Clark]

So Michael Schaefer, the medical examiner, has just realized that this little girl has been poisoned, but he knows nothing about these other deaths. Yeah, there's nothing like that. It's not entirely clear how everything became connected or who connected it. But what I find just particularly astonishing is that within just a few hours, by that evening, by the evening of September 29, people were saying there's something up with the Tylenol in these mysterious deaths that have been going on all around Chicago.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, we'll get into the dragnet they cast, but within a few days, they had kind of solved everything. But who did it and how it may have happened.

[Josh Clark]

Who done it, who done it.

[Chuck Bryant]

So, yeah, very quickly they figured out the Tylenol. And there are a couple of different stories, like you said, on who was the first person to point this out. One story is that a reporter for the city news bureau in Chicago was doing the reporter thing and doing some deep diving and investigating and called up a deputy coroner and said, hey, I think this is what's happening. They told the police. Another story is that two people who didn't know each other kind of came together independently to let people know. One was a fire captain named Philip Cappitelli.

[Josh Clark]

I knew it. I knew you were gonna do that. There was like a 90% chance.

[Chuck Bryant]

You know why? Because we got a lot of support from people that wrote in saying, I'm Italian and I love it, keep doing it, and only one guy who hated it.

[Josh Clark]

But ironically, it was fire captain Philip Cappotelli who had written in and said no.

[Chuck Bryant]

So here was his deal. His mother in law was friends with Mary Kellerman, the victim's mother.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, the first little girl.

[Chuck Bryant]

And she said, hey, would you mind looking into this? Cause I'm friends with this little girl's Mom.

[Josh Clark]

And it's weird that she dropped dead at age 12.

[Chuck Bryant]

And he's a fire captain and they're all connected to, you know, the police and to the medical community.

[Josh Clark]

Everybody knows you want something done. Ask a fire captain.

[Chuck Bryant]

I would.

[Josh Clark]

Sure. Because they'll bust into the room with an axe and get everybody's attention.

[Chuck Bryant]

So he's investigating. And then there's a nurse named Helen Jensen, and she. I don't. Do you know why she was so into this case? Was she just a do Gooder?

[Josh Clark]

No, no, no. She was the public health nurse for Cook County, I believe.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay. So she had an official designation to investigate.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. But unfortunately no one would listen to her because this is 1982 and she was a nurse.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Even though she was like a public health director, she was still a nurse and people wouldn't listen to her. And she recalled in an oral history I read about this that she was stomping her feet out of frustration, saying, like, there's something wrong with the Tylenol. Like the Tylenol is behind all this. And people wouldn't listen to her.

[Chuck Bryant]

Amazing.

[Josh Clark]

Supposedly she and Philip Capitali got together and joined forces and I guess were able to convince everybody that, no, there's something wrong with the Tylenol. And by this time, people started talking.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sure.

[Josh Clark]

And, you know, the idea that Michael Schaefer had identified Tylenol, I don't know if it was the same day or the day after, something like that, but all this is within a span of 36, 48 hours, tops. Yeah, it was really fast that all of this is going on, that the dots are being connected.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. So then what follows is Cook County's Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. Edmund Donahue, holds a presser. I either watch this one or one of the other ones. Like, I remember specifically seeing this press conference on the news.

[Josh Clark]

Probably saw Jane Burns.

[Chuck Bryant]

That would have been the nationwide one, I guess.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And I was like, how would that have been nationwide? And then I looked it up. WGN was a superstation starting in 1980.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, you know it, man.

[Josh Clark]

So everybody saw it because WGN could broadcast nationwide by 1982.

[Chuck Bryant]

I watched Cubs games as a kid just because it was on.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. That was it. Like that. And Braves games were all you could say.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, man. So Dr. Donahue has a presser, a local presser. Of course, there is panic initially.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. He scares the S out of everybody because he comes out of nowhere and says, stop taking the Tylenol.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah, sure. And so anyone. I mean, imagine how many people In Chicago had taken Tylenol within two hours of that press conference and are thinking like, should I go to the hospital?

[Josh Clark]

Right. And as a matter of fact, the poison control lines for basically in every city where somebody saw this started to light up right after that. And people were like, I just took Tylenol. Am I okay?

[Chuck Bryant]

Or gave my kid. Can you imagine?

[Josh Clark]

And what came to be the pat response was, if you are still standing and talking to us, you're probably okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Which is sort of a double edged sword, right. It's like, don't worry, you die super fast.

[Josh Clark]

Right? Kind of.

[Chuck Bryant]

So just relax.

[Josh Clark]

So just hold the line for five minutes and then I'm gonna come back and check on you. And if you're still talking, you're fine.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man. All right. So then the Chicago mayor's office gets involved, like you said, Mayor Jane Byrne. She says, print a bunch of flyers. Print them in a bunch of languages.

[Josh Clark]

Maybe on goldenrod and cornflower blue.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sure, why not?

[Josh Clark]

Really catch people's attention.

[Chuck Bryant]

She had police drive through with loudspeakers on their car, literally saying like, don't take Tylenol.

[Josh Clark]

Reenacting that scene from the Blues Brothers where they're driving.

[Chuck Bryant]

I was thinking Slacker. That's funny. Two different movies.

[Josh Clark]

But do you remember they're driving through in the police car with the loudspeaker, talking about their show?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, same as Slacker.

[Josh Clark]

I don't remember. I don't. I guess I didn't make it to the end of Slacker either.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was in the middle. Ish.

[Josh Clark]

It was no Dazed and Confused, huh?

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, just different movies. Okay, so they're posting flyers, Cops are driving around blaring it through neighborhoods. And then she has a press conference. She has all Tylenol removed from the Chicago area.

[Josh Clark]

She calls for it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, sure. She didn't go around with her. Her basket, right?

[Josh Clark]

No. I'm not 100% clear if she was actually able to demand that the Tylenol be removed. I think she was more warning.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, I doubt if there was any law she could invoke.

[Josh Clark]

I wonder, though. Seems like you would want to.

[Chuck Bryant]

I would imagine we'll talk about that later.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

So the TV and the radio, obviously everyone picks this up. Not just in Chicago or the United States. It goes worldwide. And so there's people in Europe and Asia pulling Thailand Tylenol off the shelves.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So this is a big deal. And there was a lot of attention lavished on this. There was a poll that was taken the next month in October, that found that 90, and this was in cities all over the country that found that 90% of respondents were aware of this Tylenol poisoning story.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Some press agency, like a news clipping service said that it's the number of. The number of stories dedicated to it were second only to the number of stories dedicated to the assassination of jfk. That's how big this story became overnight. And again, one of the reasons why is because everybody took Tylenol for everything, all the time. That's just what you did. It was just something everyone took. And that same product was now killing people.

[Chuck Bryant]

So the most chilling part of all this to me, and this is all chilling, may be the copycat stuff. Because almost immediately copycat incidences started popping up all over the country. There were 270 reports of product tampering. And the month after, 36 were hardcore true tamperings. And that's what's most chilling to me is like there were that many people, at least 36. Let's go on the low end. 36 people across the country that wanted to kill people and just saw an idea and were like, oh, that's what I'll do now.

[Josh Clark]

I should have thought of that myself.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, that's scary, man.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. What's scary but also infuriating is that there's such terrible self starters that they had to be a copycat murderer in that. Right. You know what I'm saying? Sure. Like it's bad enough that they're trying to kill somebody.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Randomly kill somebody. Anonymously kill somebody. They didn't even think of it themselves.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know.

[Josh Clark]

That is a pathetic murderer right there.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's pretty pathetic.

[Josh Clark]

Put my foot down.

[Chuck Bryant]

Excedrin extra strength Excedrin capsules were found poison with Mercuric chloride and that almost killed a man in Colorado. His name was William Sinkovich and he had liver and kidney failure. But he did survive.

[Josh Clark]

This one gets me. More than one person thought, oh well, you know, people spray and like drop things in their eyes and nose. I'll put acid in there. So tampered Sinex and tampered Visine both turned up after they had burned people with acid. Chemical burn up your nose.

[Chuck Bryant]

Unbelievable.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's a bad one.

[Chuck Bryant]

So food was also on the list of things being tampered with. Orange juice, chocolate milk. Very high profile incident with ballpark hot dogs. They pulled a million pounds of wieners.

[Josh Clark]

Off the shelves and ran them through a metal detector.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Cause this was a scare. All of you know the old urban legend of razor blades and Halloween candy. Did they actually find pins and needles and things?

[Josh Clark]

For sure. Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. Because I thought that had literally never happened.

[Josh Clark]

It hadn't. It was an urban legend. That became true.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. But nothing in the wieners?

[Josh Clark]

No. Some boys, I think, in Detroit claim to have found razor blades in their ballpark wieners. And like you said, a million pounds were recalled. And then the boys were like, we were just kidding.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wow.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And ballpark. We'll talk about how ballpark was treated after that. But they were put on shoulders and carried around for how great they handled everything.

[Chuck Bryant]

And there were a lot of hoaxes. There were a lot of tips called in about other tampering. And it had a really, like. If the purpose of this was to induce panic and fear and terror, then it absolutely worked.

[Josh Clark]

Absolutely.

[Chuck Bryant]

Should we take another break?

[Josh Clark]

I think so, man. We're going to come back and talk about the investigation. Stop. You, you know, Stop, stop, stop. You should know. Stop.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own, with a job in home care.

[Josh Clark]

These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care, retirement options, and free training. They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime. Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply. That's oregonhomecarejobs.com.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats. Now through October 7th, you can get early savings on your Halloween candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's Pumpkins, Snickers Miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, Raw Sugar milk chocolate, Caramel Jack O Lanterns, Brock's Candy Corn Charms, Mini Pops, and more. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, Chuck, I also want to point this out. Time magazine, you know how I'm, like, super into going back and reading contemporary news articles about an event? Yeah, this one, I mean, it's all over the place. But Time wrote about the copycat incidents back in 1982, and they said that the copycats were trying to, quote, emulate their demonic hero, the still unknown poisoner. Their demonic hero that's what the journalists from Time decided to go with.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's funny. I mean, that seems like a very 2019 thing to write.

[Josh Clark]

That's what I'm saying. I feel like we're reverting back to 1982 right now.

[Chuck Bryant]

Are we?

[Josh Clark]

I guess so. After that intro of yours, I'm now convinced. All right, so everybody's freaked out. There are whole towns that canceled Halloween because remember, this happened like a month before Halloween. And everyone was very scared about candy tampering because of the urban legend. In some places it turned out to be true. A self fulfilling prophecy. There were all hoaxes. There were all these actual true product tampering copycats. People were freaked out and the cops needed to do something. And initially, these seven different deaths in five different towns in the Chicago area were being treated as five different investigations that didn't last very long. Within two days, by Friday, by the time Mayor Byrne holds her press conference on wgn, what came to be called the Tylenol Task Force was formed. All five of those investigations got folded into, not just local investigations, the FBI, the Illinois State Police, fda, of course. Yeah, the FDA was involved. And then the whole thing was led by the Illinois District Attorney's office, who was the nominal head of the investigation.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, so they figured out pretty quickly that, you know, like I said earlier, they cast their dragnet, they come up with about a 50 mile radius of where all this stuff was bought and sold and go investigate drugstore after drugstore. And they did find more bad Tylenol that's still sitting on the shelves, thankfully.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, yeah. I don't want to skim past that. They found more Tylenol waiting to be bought.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

Like just sitting there like, hey, come by me. Within two days of these first deaths.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

These first murders. We keep calling them deaths. These were murders.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And they name their case. There are always code names for all these cases. This one ranks pretty low in my opinion. Tymurs. T Y M U R S. Short obviously for Tylenol murders.

[Josh Clark]

At the very least, the S should have been a Z. Timers. Yeah, you know. Yeah, just give it a little flavor.

[Chuck Bryant]

Agreed. So the cops are. There was some confusion about how this went down because they're trying to figure out, you know, did it happen at the factory, did it happen after the factory? What's the supply chain like?

[Josh Clark]

Well, that's huge. That's like the crux of the investigation.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Josh Clark]

Where did the tainting occur?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So they found out that all of the containers were from lot number MC2880, which was pushed out in August. Again, this was the end of September in states east. All states east of the Mississippi, plus the Dakotas, Nebraska, and a bit of Wyoming.

[Josh Clark]

Just a touch of Wyoming for flavor.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. Like the Z for that mesquite flavor.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

However, they were from different production plants, and they were sold in different drugstores, which is weird.

[Josh Clark]

It's. It's tough to wrap your head around that because it's the same lot, but they came from different plants. And it turns out Tylenol has also a really weird convoluted distribution network.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think that's every company.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

I have a friend that works in supply chain management. And I was like, huh?

[Josh Clark]

Supposedly they'll take boxes and open them up and repackage them in smaller boxes. And it happens at different companies at different points around the country.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's pretty complicated.

[Josh Clark]

It is.

[Chuck Bryant]

From a product from factory to your mouth. Like, what happens to kind of everything?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I would think simplicity would be safer.

[Josh Clark]

Much. You know, probably not cheaper, though.

[Chuck Bryant]

You're probably right. So what they finally figured out was here's what we think happened is this stuff was not tainted at the factory. This stuff was not tainted in the supply chain, but this stuff was tainted from the store and then returned back to the store.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Because these pills were sold in different stores, which is a big one, because not only could it have been, like, part of the factory, it could have been one of the local stores, distribution centers, where there was somebody messing with it. But since they were sold in jewel food stores in Walgreens and other places, too, around the Chicago area, that didn't make any sense. It couldn't have just been, like, the Jewel distribution center. It also, because they were coming from different production plants, it really couldn't have been the production plant or the factory where it came from. It had to be, like you said, happening at the stores.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And there were a lot of initial theories. You know, was it someone who. Like a former disgruntled employee of Johnson and Johnson.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Was it someone. Was it just a serial killer who just picked Tylenol and wanted to randomly kill people?

[Josh Clark]

Right. And this is. That's weird. That's a weird idea. At the time. Like, now it just seems normal. Like, yeah, probably.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's sad.

[Josh Clark]

But this was two years before the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre, which is one of the next random killings of people who just happened to be in the wrong Place at the wrong time. This was kind of the first of that, but it was still so new and remote and alien. That didn't seem like a realistic idea at the time.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, some of the other ideas, they thought maybe this was someone that was targeting a specific person or people and then randomly poisoned other people to cover their tracks. One of the weird theories that came out later after and spoiler alert, we now have tamper proof medicines. I'm sure everyone's noticed there was one theory that it was someone who had a financial stake in tamper proof technology.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I saw something like that too.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't think there was ever a ton of credence put into that one. But point is, there were a lot. I mean, they were flying blind basically because it was just such an unexpected, odd, random thing. They were basically coming up with kind of any idea they could think of.

[Josh Clark]

But the one that the cops settled on and the one that Johnson and Johnson also settled on too because they went back and tested samples from lot MC2880 and found that there was no taining of the lot. Their samples were pure. So the cops and Johnson and Johnson both decided they settled on what's called the Mad Poisoner theory. That somebody went around this 50 mile radius in the Chicago area in about seven hours is what the cops calculated. It would have taken either bought a bunch of Tylenol and then took it back to their house and poisoned it, repackaged it, and then drove around and redistributed it or went from store to store, went in, bought some Tylenol, took it out to the car, poisoned it and then repackaged it and brought it back in. But that it was local and it was specific to Chicago. That was the Mad Poisoner theory. And again, why? Still no one has any idea why. It could have been random. They could have been targeting somebody. It could have been a disgruntled Johnson and Johnson employee. But the main theory for the tylenol killings of 1982 in Chicago is the Mad Poisoner theory.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And do you know how they tested the rest of that lot? They got Detective John Pinky McFarland who had the best drug pinky in all of Illinois. And he went around and dipped that Pinky in, touched it to his tongue and said it's good.

[Josh Clark]

He's like, I can't feel my face right now.

[Chuck Bryant]

The guy's a legend.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, his pinky ring is so significant he can barely lift his finger. He only lifts it to test drugs.

[Chuck Bryant]

I told you we'd find some jokes.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

So by mid October, this is sort of the final bit of part one here. There was another bottle that people that they found another tainted bottle.

[Josh Clark]

This is so crazy.

[Chuck Bryant]

That was purchased on September 29 so it fit the bill. And it was a woman who was feeling bad and went to go get that Tylenol and her sister was like, no, I've got some buffering right here. Just go ahead and take that. And the lady presumably said, well I really prefer acetaminophen, but I guess I'll take an aspirin.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, her sister in law saved her by offering her buffering instead. You believe that she was steps away from dropping dead at a family gathering.

[Chuck Bryant]

Unbelievable.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that is a good place to stop, huh?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So that's part one of the Tylenol murders or Ty murders with an S. And we're going to come back with part two after this. If you want to get in touch with us in the meantime, you can go onto stuffyouchouknow.com and check out our social links. Or you can send us a good old fashioned email 1982 version to Stuff [e-mail].

[Podcast Host (Intro/Outro)]

Stuff youf Should Know is a.

[Chuck Bryant]

Production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works.

[Podcast Host (Intro/Outro)]

For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite show.

[Chuck Bryant]

Foreign.

[Podcast Host (Intro/Outro)]

Hey guys, it's Chiquis from Cheekies and Chill Cleaning today. Well, not exactly my idea of fun, but wait a second, is Fabuloso involved? Because that's different. Cleaning with Fabuloso 2 times concentrated cleaner turns chores into fiestas. Fabuloso pairs twice the concentrated cleaning power with long lasting lavender freshness. From showers to countertops, floors to doorknobs, it leaves your whole home smelling and feeling like a fresh oasis. You may never love cleaning, but you will love a home cleaned with Fabuloso. So make your home dramatically clean with Fabuloso. Pick some up today at your favorite store. Fabuloso 2x concentrated formula provides two times more active ingredients versus non concentrated Fabuloso original use as directed.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats. Now through October 7th, you can get early savings on your Halloween candy Candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's pumpkins, Snickers miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, raw sugar, milk chocolate, caramel Jack o' Lanterns, Brock's Candy Corn Charms, Mini Pops and more offerings October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights because, let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG XBoom and for a limited time, save [e-mail] with code Fall25.

[Josh Clark]

Bring the Boom XBoom this is an iHeart podcast.