The Ballad of High Times Magazine

Summary

The Ballad of High Times Magazine – A Comprehensive Summary

Episode Release Date: January 21, 2025
Podcast: Stuff You Should Know
Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve deep into the history and impact of High Times Magazine, an iconic publication that has played a pivotal role in shaping marijuana culture and legalization efforts in the United States. From its rebellious inception to its eventual decline, the hosts navigate through the magazine's tumultuous journey, highlighting key moments, influential figures, and the broader cultural shifts surrounding cannabis.

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Origins of High Times Magazine

Founder’s Background

High Times was founded by Thomas King Forsad, originally named Gary Goodson, a prominent pot dealer in the late 1960s. Forsad wasn't just an entrepreneur; he was deeply ingrained in the underground cannabis trade, smuggling large quantities of marijuana into the U.S. from countries like Mexico and Jamaica. Josh recalls a vivid quote from Forsad: “There are two types of pot dealers. Those who need a forklift and those who don't” (05:23).

Underground Press Beginnings

Forsad's passion for cannabis extended beyond trafficking. After a brief stint in the Air Guard, which he left by convincing authorities of his schizophrenia, he immersed himself in the underground zine scene. He founded his first underground magazine, Orpheus, which blended politics with psychedelic content, covering music and cannabis culture. This experience laid the foundation for High Times, positioning it as a serious publication rather than a mere hobbyist's magazine.

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High Times' Growth and Influence

Early Issues and Promotion

High Times debuted in the summer of 1974 with a 10,000-copy print run. The first issue featured excerpts from Timothy Leary, articles on hemp and marijuana, and the Trans High Market Quotation, detailing the street prices of cannabis across various cities. Despite an initial slow start, a strategic launch party at New York's Gramercy Park Hotel, where media personalities were introduced to nitrous oxide and other substances, catapulted the magazine's popularity. This bold promotion led to the second issue selling out its 50,000-copy run within four weeks (21:40).

Cultural Impact and Notable Contributors

High Times quickly established itself as a cornerstone of cannabis journalism. The magazine featured groundbreaking articles and interviews with luminaries such as:

• Dalai Lama discussing drug policies
• Hunter S. Thompson contributing his unique perspective
• Truman Capote and Andy Warhol offering insights into their views on cannabis
• Bob Marley, whose interviews bridged the worlds of reggae and marijuana culture

These contributions not only elevated the magazine's credibility but also intertwined High Times with broader cultural and political movements of the time (26:21).

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Challenges and Tragedy

Founder’s Demise

In November 1978, Thomas King Forsad tragically ended his life at the age of 33, following the death of a close friend. His passing marked a significant turning point for High Times. In a poignant tribute, staff members reportedly rolled Forsad's ashes into joints, symbolizing their deep connection to his vision and the cannabis community he fostered (28:59).

Shift in Editorial Focus

Post-Forsad, High Times began exploring topics beyond marijuana, including harder drugs like cocaine and methamphetamine. This shift was met with resistance from long-time readers who felt the magazine was straying from its original mission. Despite initial backlash, the publication attempted to regain its focus on cannabis, especially as the dangers and violence associated with harder drugs became more apparent.

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Resurgence in the 1990s

Hip-Hop Influence and Mainstream Acceptance

The 1990s marked a renaissance for High Times, coinciding with the rise of hip-hop culture and artists like Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre releasing influential works such as The Chronic. This period saw marijuana gain mainstream acceptance, and High Times capitalized on this trend by featuring prominent hip-hop figures on its covers and within its pages. The magazine also played a crucial role in educating readers about home cultivation through detailed guides on hydroponic systems, contributing to the evolution of cannabis cultivation techniques (32:43).

Legalization Advocacy

Under the leadership of Editor-in-Chief Steven Hager, High Times intensified its advocacy for marijuana legalization. The magazine became a powerful voice in shifting public opinion, emphasizing the medicinal benefits of cannabis and critiquing the War on Drugs. Hager's tenure solidified High Times' position as not just a cultural staple but also a significant player in the legalization movement (36:18).

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Leadership Issues and Private Equity Involvement

Editorial Missteps

In 2004, following Steven Hager's retirement, Richard Stratton took over as Editor-in-Chief. Stratton, a former pot dealer who had served eight years in federal prison for marijuana distribution, made controversial decisions that strained High Times' credibility. He notably hired John Buffalo Mailer—son of Norman Mailer—with no prior publishing experience, leading to editorial inconsistencies and a decline in quality (41:27).

Private Equity Downfall

The entry of private equity magnate Adam Levin exacerbated High Times' troubles. Levin's aggressive expansion strategies, including the acquisition of dispensaries and attempts to launch an IPO, resulted in substantial debt without substantial returns. Mismanaged partnerships and failed business ventures left High Times financially crippled, culminating in over $100 million in debt and the closure of numerous dispensaries (44:47; 46:50).

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Legacy and Closure

Final Years and Legacy

Despite High Times' struggles, the magazine maintained its print presence until September 2024, defying the broader decline of print media. Its extensive archives and dedicated online platform underscored its lasting impact on cannabis culture. However, by 2025, the website ceased updates, and the magazine ceased publication, signaling the end of an era (50:47).

Cultural Impact

High Times' legacy is profound. Recognized by The Nation in 2013 as "the most influential publication of our era," the magazine not only chronicled but also actively shaped the discourse around marijuana legalization. Its blend of serious journalism, activism, and cultural commentary paved the way for today's more accepting attitudes towards cannabis (37:36).

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Notable Quotes

1. Thomas King Forsad on Pot Dealing:
   “There are two types of pot dealers. Those who need a forklift and those who don't.”
   — Forsad, 05:23

2. Josh Clark on High Times' Iconic Status:
   “Pretty much everybody's heard of High Times. If you've never even picked one up, there's a good chance you've heard of High Times or somebody referencing High Times. It's like it insinuated itself into American pop culture.”
   — Josh Clark, 03:27

3. Michael Kennedy on High Times' Mission:
   “High Times was meant to be a way to use free speech to teach people how to grow pot. They basically had found a loophole thanks to the First Amendment, that they could disseminate all of this information as far and as wide as they possibly could.”
   — Michael Kennedy, 16:45

4. Chuck Bryant on High Times' Final Days:
   “The once mighty hightimes.com is gone, reduced to an error message that is reminiscent of finding your favorite uncle dead on the floor.”
   — Chuck Bryant, 50:49

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Conclusion

Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant's exploration of High Times Magazine offers listeners a detailed narrative of a publication that was more than just a periodical—it was a movement. From its rebellious roots and influential rise to its struggles with leadership and financial mismanagement, High Times mirrored the evolving landscape of cannabis culture in America. As the magazine's pages close, its legacy endures, reminding us of the profound impact dedicated voices can have on societal change.

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Timestamps

For reference, here are the key points associated with their respective timestamps:

• 05:23 – Forsad’s perspective on the scale of pot dealing.
• 03:27 – High Times' influence on American pop culture.
• 16:45 – Michael Kennedy on High Times' mission for legalization through journalism.
• 21:40 – High Times' strategic promotion leading to its second issue's success.
• 26:21 – High Times' notable contributors and influence.
• 28:59 – Tribute to Forsad after his passing.
• 32:43 – The resurgence of High Times in the 1990s influenced by hip-hop.
• 36:18 – High Times' role in shifting the legalization agenda.
• 41:27 – Leadership changes and the hiring of John Buffalo Mailer.
• 44:47 – Private equity’s detrimental impact on High Times.
• 50:49 – The final closure and legacy of High Times Magazine.

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This summary encapsulates the rich and multifaceted history of High Times Magazine as discussed by Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant. It is designed to inform listeners who may not have tuned into the episode, providing a thorough understanding of the magazine’s significance and legacy.

Transcript

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[Josh Clark]

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Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors. And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chuck Bryant]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. And there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And we're just hanging out, feeling Irene, hearing stuff you should know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did you ever, I mean, I'm gonna ask you two questions. Did you ever read High Times much? And did you ever subscribe?

[Josh Clark]

I never subscribed. I was way too paranoid to do something like that. But yes, I, I read it. I looked at the pictures.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I, I think for one year in college I actually subscribed because, and this is High Times magazine we're talking about, everybody. The, I was gonna say notorious, but not really Notorious. The infamous Weed magazine.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

But I subscribed for, I think a year because it just seemed like, you know, I wanted to have that house that had that on the coffee table with our address on it. I just thought it was like the cool thing to do, you know.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I mean, it was legitimately cool during a certain period of life.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Like if you were 50 doing that, it's kind of sad. But if you're like 20 or 19 or 21 or 20 and a half, let's say, then yeah, I get it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Watch what you say though. I've learned from recent emails there may be a 50 year old out there that thinks hightime is cool. That's gonna be very Upset.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's true. But I mean, do they have it on their coffee table?

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know.

[Josh Clark]

I think that's the thing that's getting me.

[Chuck Bryant]

Even when I did read it occasionally, I even at the time was like, this is the articles the way they were written. There were so many puns. It was so kind of corny.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And so it never felt like as good as I think they might have thought it was. Does that make sense?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And also one of the other things, too, I was going to say you could sense it, but no, it was just really overt, was they had an agenda in every single one of their articles. There was a way they wanted you to think, which is their position on it. And they would, like, mock the other position on it, typically the governments position on like, legalization or something like that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, good point.

[Josh Clark]

Over time, though, I mean, it became. It's an iconic magazine, like.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Josh Clark]

Pretty much everybody's heard of High Times. If you've never even picked one up, there's a good chance you've heard of High Times or somebody referencing High Times. It's like it insinuated itself into American pop culture. And the reason why it became iconic is it survived all sorts of drug culture transitions like. Like throughout all these different, like, ways of thinking and looking at drugs and different drugs people were doing. High Times managed to just keep plodding along and stay relevant, I guess is the best way to put it. I didn't think I was gonna say that out loud, but here we are.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. From the. Yeah, let's just get into it then.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

No more needs to be added.

[Josh Clark]

I agree. I agree. Um, so High Times was founded by a guy named Thomas King Forsad. And I just realized I didn't look up any videos of people pronouncing his name, but I'm pretty sure that's how.

[Chuck Bryant]

It'S spelled because I was so ready to roll with 4K'd.

[Josh Clark]

Well, I've seen the little. The little French version of the umlaut. The little devil's tail coming off of the bottom of the sea.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay.

[Josh Clark]

And that indicates a sound if my high school French doesn't fail me. So I think his name was Thomas King Frassaud.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, great. He looks like if you look up, this guy, you know, when I went to look up, I'd never seen a picture of him. I expected. I didn't expect to see someone so cool looking. I mean, he looks like he stepped right out of the Allman Brothers Band or something.

[Josh Clark]

I was gonna say he looks like the Allman Brothers Satanic Advisor.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. And if you're thinking like, what do you mean? It was like a pot magazine. Why didn't you think he'd be cool? It's. Cause I usually expect them to look sort of like a weight any like weed activist to be just decked out in tie dye and kind of just wearing some sort of wacky handmade hat. And this guy, like, he looked like he could jump off of a chopper and like hit the stage or something, you know?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And you know that same 50 year old who's upset because I said something about high time zone, his coffee table is pretty much a wavy gravy lookalike too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. He's wearing his own handmade knit hat.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So this guy, Thomas King for saad. It's a pretty cool name. And if it sounds made up, it is made up. His real name was Gary Goodson. And it's not because his name was Gary Goodson that he ditched that name in favor of Thomas King for saad. He was actually a big, big time pot dealer. Like not only did he sell literal tons of pot in like the. I think starting in the late 60s and going well into past the time he was. Had started publishing High Times, he smuggled it himself. He flew planes and he went to Mexico, he went to Jamaica and he. He smuggled pot, tons of pot at a time into the United States. He. There was a quote I found of his that he said, there's two types of pot dealers. Those who need a forklift and those who don't. I need a forklift. And like, he wasn't joking. Like he really dealt that much pot.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So I mean, regardless of how you feel about that or him or any of it, he wasn't just some guy saying like, hey, let's try and make a little dough off of this marijuana people are smoking. Like he was knee deep in the business.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

This was after coming out of, seemingly to avoid the Vietnam draft, a short stint in the air guard where he was discharged after convincing them that he had schizophrenia. And at that point he went back to Arizona in Phoenix, changed that name, which was his mother's. I'm sorry, grandmother's maiden name and you know, got into the underground zine scene. You know, that was a big thing back in the late 60s because of the ubiquity of like being able to print your own stuff in an office or a. I don't know if they had kinkos back Then. But he got into those and founded his own first underground magazine called Orpheus, which had some politics to it, but it was kind of just a little groovy psychedelic thing that covered, like, music and pot and stuff.

[Josh Clark]

Tell them about the issue with the peace sign in the bullet hole.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, there was a peace sign on the COVID that actually had a real bullet hole. So instead of just drawing a bullet hole, he shot them up.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, he shot himself. Shot bundles the stacks wrapped together with the Colt.45 handgun to really kind of drive the point home.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, it's creative.

[Josh Clark]

That is an underground zine right there. If it has a bullet hole in it that the publisher put there, that's really something.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's like with real blood.

[Josh Clark]

Right. You said something that I think is really worth pointing out because there's a whole camp of people who tell this origin story of High Times and Thomas King fraud, that it was like just some money making scheme or just a lark or something like that. This guy, in actuality was a dedicated First Amendment warrior. Like, dedicated. And also he was very committed to the counterculture. Not just because he sold tons of weed, but he genuinely believed in legalizing marijuana. That that was a crucial thing to do in the United States. And he put his money where his mouth is. And like you said, he started with underground zines, and then he took up. I saw that he joined or he found it. I couldn't tell which one was correct. What's basically like an Associated Press for underground magazines. It was called the Underground Press Syndicate. And I think it changed its name to something else. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'm not sure. I always saw it called ups.

[Josh Clark]

Well, we'll just call it that. But it was, like I said, the ap where you could get, like, get all sorts of news about drug busts or about, you know, some spectacular pot harvest or something to do with underground culture. And you could just print it in your. Your local mag. And the people in Phoenix are reading the same thing as the people in Denver, but they don't know that. They just think it's like part of your magazine.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And he eventually worked his way up to national coordinator for the Underground Press Syndicate. And that's where he learned how to run a magazine. Basically. That's how he learned about ad deals, distribution, printing, like efficient printing, real printing for a little while. And I figure we should probably do something on Abbie Hoffman and the Yippies at some point.

[Josh Clark]

All right.

[Chuck Bryant]

You don't want to highlight boomers, do you?

[Josh Clark]

No, it's not that. I just Think that guy's gotten more than enough of his spotlight, but yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, you know what? Then forget it.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Wow. I didn't think I was going to talk you out on that one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey, if you want to learn about Abbie Hoffman, you're not going to learn about it here.

[Josh Clark]

Everybody go steal his book.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, or read. Very nice. I got that one. So he did join up with Hoffman, though, and his yippies. Again, if you want to read about them, they were a group that did a lot of like, kind of social pranks and media grab, you know, activist stuff for their radical causes. In 1970, for Saad, you said.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, because if you take out the O and change or no, if you change the O to an A and take out the R, you've got facade like the front of a building. So I'm making an educated guess here.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think you're probably right, but I'm just. I've been saying it wrong all day, so in my head. So it's going to take a minute.

[Josh Clark]

That's okay. I was reading the High Times archives and I guess they had some like 6th grade trained AI scan and alter or turn all of their magazine photos into text. And boy, they came up with some creative ways of spelling that guy's name.

[Chuck Bryant]

You also sent me a lot of fun ads for cocaine paraphernalia. Dude, that was crazy.

[Josh Clark]

There's few things that are funner but also more shocking than looking at vintage cocaine paraphernalia ads that appeared in the likes of High Times and other magazines. Yeah, and there was one that I pointed out to you that was just like this thing should be in the Smithsonian. It was a metal, probably like a gold plated coke tube. So you put one end in the coke and you put the other end up your nose and you sniff. Right. Just in case you didn't know how to ingest cocaine.

[Chuck Bryant]

How'd that work?

[Josh Clark]

It's shaped like an old school vacuum cleaner. And so the coke goes into the bottom of the vacuum cleaner and comes out the handle, which is up in your nose. They call it the hooter instead of the Hoover. Like, whoever came up with this is just. That's dedication right there. Because that's the kind of idea you'd just be like, man, we should totally make this. But then the person actually went and made it and sold it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And then McDonald's hired them to develop their Happy Meal practice. They're like, this guy's really good at these tiny little bobbles.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly. And if you knew what you were doing, you could clip the ends off of all those prizes and use them as coke's drugs.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so in 1970, that's where we were. Four Saad testified before Nixon's presidential commission on obscenity and pornography. And this is when he got a real chance to take the national stage and talk about. Well, the quote was, the only obscenity is censorship. And it's the first. And I feel like we talked about this in our Pie in the Face episode. Had to, but it's the first incident that we know of where a protest pie in the face happened when he pulled out a cream pie and face Pied. Dr. Larson. Dr. Otto Larson.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Who was the chairman of that committee on obscenity and pornography. Right, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And that must be the first one. I mean, it's cited as the first time, you know, not in a Marx Brothers movie. Somebody's like, let me make a point with this.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. It was a form of protest that picked up really quick. I mean, there's few things you can do to somebody publicly that is more disrespectful and humiliating, but also non injurious than the face. But he did that.

[Chuck Bryant]

He didn't happen anymore.

[Josh Clark]

He was called to testify. And not only did he say that censorship is the true obscenity, he said. He said, f censorship and F you. And then he pied the guy in the face in a congressional hearing. This is what he did. This is just the kind of person he was like. He wasn't somebody who just talked a big game. Like this guy followed through on the stuff that he really believed in.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And he also let that pie sit out the day before in Phoenix. So it was rotten green yick. Should we take a break?

[Josh Clark]

Um, sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, let's take a break and we'll talk about the beginnings of the magazine right after this.

[Jon Stewart]

Stuff you should know, Josh and Sean.

[Josh Clark]

Stuff you should know.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show. Ears Edition Edition Podcast. The Daily show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show. Here's edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so we've Introduced our protagonist, I guess in the, in the first act we, we can't. And you know, Dave helped us put together this article and he, he points out that if you tried to get, I mean, you could do a whole article on this guy and talk about all the wacky things he did over the years like concert festival promotion. He snuck allegedly pipe bombs into the 72 Republican convention.

[Josh Clark]

Later on he followed the Sex Pistols around and co produced a documentary on them called doa.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, so he was a busy guy doing a lot of stuff. But this is about High Time. So the origin story officially for High Times magazine is that he thought of it with his friends while he was huffing nitrous oxide. Other people say it might have been an acid trip, but either way, the early idea was, hey, how about a magazine, like a marijuana themed magazine? They've got Playboy. And some people say like the initial idea was just a one off kind of spoof of Playboy, but everyone that worked there said no, no, no. The idea was always to have like a real magazine that was cheeky and fun, but also like real journalism and tackled real topics about activism and marijuana and growing it and all that stuff.

[Josh Clark]

Right, exactly. Michael Kennedy, who was personal attorney and then came on as High Times legal counsel from like the beginning until I think 2016 when he died, he explained it that High Times was meant to be a way to use free speech to teach people how to grow pot. And that like they basically had found a loophole thanks to the First Amendment, that they could disseminate all of this information as far and as wide as they possibly could and in teaching people to grow their own pot that would eventually change attitudes about pot and potentially lead to legalization. And as we'll see that they were successful in that quest that they started back in 1974.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's right. And I think, I mean, I think it absolutely did that. I think one of the missions was, hey, let's really convince people. Not convince, but let's really show people what the truth is, which is that this is a plant that can be grown. Like plant versus, you know, illicit drug, you know.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Or illicit drug versus illicit drug. Like at the time the Controlled substances Act of 1970 had just been passed thanks to Richard Nixon and marijuana, which by the way I read, is not at all racist. There was a Latino, I think, historian who researched it and he's like, that's actually myth. So good for him that it was a Schedule 1, which I think it still was until like this year. Which means that it has, according to the government, no medicinal value whatsoever and the high potential for abuse. And both of those are just absolute lies. They're just not correct. They're not true. They knew this back in 1970, and that this, this Controlled Substances act kicked off the War on Drugs, which in retrospect, most people now agree was misguided and a huge waste of money and killed a lot of people. And this was the era that.

[Chuck Bryant]

And incarcerated.

[Josh Clark]

Yes, incarcerated. It's a big one, too. But it was in this era, the beginning of this era, that High Times started to kind of become not just an idea, but in actuality. So they wanted to fight that, which was part of the reason they were willing to, like, use mockery or just all of their articles had a slant to it because they felt like they were taking on liars. And that's a legitimate way to respond to liars, is through mockery or really kind of pushing your agenda against them. But that was a huge, I think, impetus for creating High Times, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, absolutely. So that very first issue came out, summer of 74 is when it debuted. Had a 10,000 copy print run, and it didn't really light the world on fire, I guess, no pun intended. At first. It had, like an excerpt from a Timothy Leary novel, of course, articles about hemp and marijuana and how great they thought it was. There were some interviews and very importantly, they had a. Something that would stay in the magazine, which was a feature called the Trans High Market Quotation, which is a listing of like, hey, in Chicago, this is how much a dime bag costs. This is how much it costs in New York. This is what an ounce of weed costs. In Phoenix, you know what they used, I guess they still call it street value, which I always thought was really funny, but that's what it was. And it stayed in there for a long time. Even though, as we'll talk about later, it changed a little bit over the years. But this first issue, like I said, was not. I mean, they did eventually sell out of that 10,000, but it wasn't through. It was through a lot of hustling. It wasn't like, hey, it's on your newsstand for Saad said, here, let me get it into head shops. Let me send them to record stores. Apparently drug dealers bought copies and gave them away to people. So it eventually did sell out, the two printings, but it was. The second issue is when it really, really took off. Because of their, you know, kind of ingenious promotion.

[Josh Clark]

Well, yeah, they threw a launch party at the Gramercy Park Hotel in New York and invited like a bunch of media and just got them messed up. Like straight button down media types, journalists, some like TV news people showed up and were like giving brownies and like, here, try nitrous oxide. And have you ever had cocaine? And I read a quote from Michael Kennedy, the legal counsel for High Times. He said that he remembers three or four lawsuits being brought against High Times from people who got so wasted for the first time in their lives that they decided to sue the magazine for it.

[Chuck Bryant]

I could see that apparently it was also, if not the first one of the first times live television showed people doing drugs. There was one of the local news stations, according to Rolling Stone, showed people on camera on the news snorting cocaine. And I'm sure people at home are watching this just going like, what is going on? But it was huge publicity and they sold out their 50 this time. 50,000 copy run in four weeks. And it became a genuine sensation. That's when also the second issue is when they started, also as an homage to Playboy magazine, their centerfold. But of course, their center fold was always these big, beautifully photographed pictures of buds, marijuana buds.

[Josh Clark]

The first one, I would take issue with the idea that it was beautiful. It was a 20 pound brick of swag, just brown and compressed and ugly. But at the time it was like their premier weed, Colombian. And just another aside, I'm sorry about this, but I wonder, so I've always wondered in Hey 19, the steely dance song, when he says the Cuervo Gold and the fine Colombian, is he talking about cocaine or is he talking about pot? And I went and researched this and I stumbled into like a long standing argument.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, really?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I read an explanation from one person and it sounded pretty legit. They said it's 100% pot that they were talking about. That's what you called really good potential back in the 70s. It was Colombian and it wouldn't have referred to cocaine in the first place because at that time most of the cocaine came from Peru. Colombian farmers hadn't really taken up coca production. And so most people, if you were aware of cocaine, you were like, this is some fine Peruvian. You wouldn't say this is some fine Colombian. So it seems like that guy settled it, at least in my mind.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey, that could have been the original lyric. You never know. It depends on the day. Probably.

[Josh Clark]

I guess it does, sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Have you seen the yacht rock documentary yet on Max?

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's pretty good.

[Josh Clark]

Like about the people who came up with yacht rock.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I mean, the people who came up with the term yacht rock are featured in it. But it's about the genre of music.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, okay. So, like, it goes back to the 70s and 80s?

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, yeah. What else would it be about?

[Josh Clark]

Well, there's a band called Yacht Rock that kicked it all off and I don't know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, you mean like the Yacht Rock Revue?

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, no, no, no.

[Josh Clark]

Could have been going on tour with them.

[Chuck Bryant]

The term yacht rock was. Came about in the early 2000s from a web comedy series.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Which I never knew until I saw this documentary. But no, it's about just the, you know, Christopher cross and Michael McDonald and Seals and Croft, all the great people. You'd enjoy it, I think.

[Josh Clark]

Have you seen the limited series Black Doves with.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I have not. What's that?

[Josh Clark]

It's a British spy thriller, like eight or ten episode say no more show. It's really good.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, you can say more, but I just mean I'm into that kind of thing.

[Josh Clark]

No, I'm with you. Just go watch it. I recommend it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, see, I always say these things when we're recording and then I don't.

[Josh Clark]

Remember afterward, just text me and be like, what was the thing with the thing? I don't know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Why don't you text me right now while I talk?

[Josh Clark]

Black does. I don't have my phone on me. It's on the charger. I'm sorry.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. So mid-70s, when high times rolls out. Those very first years, the magazine was doing really well, but as sort of a new magazine. But Forsad was not. He was on the FBI surveillance list. He was very paranoid because of the massive amounts of drugs that he was taking.

[Josh Clark]

Well, but also rightfully so. The FBI and possibly even the CIA was infiltrating the counterculture and plaintiff informants. And there was a time where he was like, there's an informant here. The High Time staff. And I don't know which one of you it is.

[Chuck Bryant]

There may have been.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's possible. Like, he had reason to be paranoid at the very least, but it was definitely fueled to extremes through his drug use, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, absolutely. The magazine itself was doing well. Like I said, the staff. I mean, it was just. I mean, if you think like the Lampoon and Mad magazine was kind of crazy in their office. Like, everybody in the High Times office was huffing nitrous and smoking weed and snorting blow, like, as they were working. But it was, you know, it was creating, like, some really relevant journalism. They were exposing, you know, government activities as Far as the drug war goes, like, when putting paraquat, which I cannot help but think of Big Lebowski when I hear that word.

[Josh Clark]

I don't remember that part.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's when, Jeff. When the dude called the real Lebowski a human paraquat when he was mad, I think he said human, even human paraquat.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

But paraquat was the pesticide that was in marijuana fields under orders from the US and this article helped promote a congressional investigation. They interviewed the Dalai Lama about drugs. There was Hunter S. Thompson and, of course, William S. Burroughs doing writing. There was Truman Capote, did a guest interview with Andy Warhol. Bob Marley was in it. Like, it was really the heyday of that magazine as far as being, like, a real. Like, they achieved what they wanted to achieve in the first few years.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I mean, that's like some heavyweight underground stuff right there that they got into their pages for sure. And, yeah, I think the latest thing you mentioned was 1978 with Truman Capote and Andy Warhol. So this is all in, like, the first four years that they're cramming all this stuff in there. So, yeah, right out of the gate. It was. It was very successful in part, Chuck, because there was nothing like this in existence before. I mean, aside from some underground zines that 50 people read before High Times, it became a national magazine, a national magazine about pot and people who love pot and love drugs and want to see them legalized. And here's how you do it, and here's how you grow this stuff. And today it seems like it's not a really big thing to talk about pot or to find an article about people smoking pot in Newsweek or whatever.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

And that is because High Times existed and laid the groundwork for it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, by year four, they had a subscribership that was about the same as Rolling Stone magazine.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Chuck Bryant]

Which is. Yeah, it's just nuts. In 1978. Forsad had previous attempts at suicide, but he succeeded in November of 1978, very sadly when he was just 33 years old. I saw different things that he. You know, it was after the death of a friend that had him really upset. And like I said, there were previous attempts, so he was a troubled guy, to say the least. But they held his memorial atop the World Trade center at the Windows of the World restaurant, and, as legend has it, smoked. I think Keith Richards snorted his dad's ashes, supposedly. But they rolled up some of Forsad's ashes in joints and smoked them as a Staff.

[Josh Clark]

That always reminds me of that episode from Six Feet under where the daughter finds some actors who are snorting, like their co. Their co stars, Ashes, Cocaine or something like that, and died. And I can't remember the daughter's name from Six Feet under, but she finds her doing this and just Claire, she just goes bonkers on them. Like, what is wrong with you? It's really good. It's very satisfying.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's weird for Claire to be judgy like that.

[Josh Clark]

She was so morally offended by what she was seeing that she just unleashed on them. It was weird for her, but it fit the moment.

[Chuck Bryant]

I wonder if she was upset about her art class at the time.

[Josh Clark]

I don't think she was there yet. I think she was younger. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So High Times, this is before, as far as the magazine itself, before Forsyd died, they did start to sort of stray from their mission statement a little bit as far as coverage of harder drugs. They started writing a lot about cocaine, like in a big, big way. They even started including cocaine and meth and LSD in that trans high market quotation as far as how much it should cost in different cities. And it was sort of like, I think the adherents of the magazine even were a little bit like, hey, this is not what I signed up for. Like, this was a weed magazine. So they kind of got back to the weed thing more in the 80s. Cocaine, you know, the reputation started to get a little bit more like, hey, wait a minute, this stuff is like, really dangerous and there's a lot of violence attached to it and the trade. And so they really got back to the pot thing again in a big way. And they were just getting going again in the 80s, back to their mission statement, when the DEA launched something called Operation Green Merchant, in which they really wanted to target marijuana growth and not the growth of marijuana, like growing marijuana plants. And advertisements for this equipment that was sort of thinly veiled is like, oh, no, these lights just help you grow your oregano at home or whatever, grow your lettuce. And so Operation Green Merchant was to. To target those ads and the publications that sort of taught you step by step how to do this right?

[Josh Clark]

And so the. I mean, the DEA had tried to take down High Times many times. This is the one they almost got them with because it took out their advertisers. Their advertisers went to jail or were run out of business. And all of a sudden, a huge amount of High Times, regular advertising dollars just vanished, like overnight because of Operation Green Merchant. It went up in Smoke. That's right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sorry.

[Josh Clark]

No, it was worth it, for sure. And they. I read a quote there. They were saying, like, at this point, High Times was on the verge of bankruptcy. The DEA almost got them, but they managed to kind of slowly climb their way back and get back into it in the 90s. This is when I started reading High Times. It was saved by hip hop because before Dr. Dre's the chronic album came out, pot was just viewed as like, you know, people who listen to, like, hippies or burnouts, like Judas Priest fans, stuff like that. Yeah, that's who. That's who smoked pot. And they were just as likely to. To sniff glue at the same time. Right, right. Then the Chronic came along and it was. It just exploded like overnight. Pot was totally in fashion again, and a whole new generation just got into it, like, really quickly.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And High Times magazine, I mean, they rolled right with it. I mean, right into the 90s. All of a sudden it's like, oh, well, now we can put Ice Cube on the COVID and, you know, write about this other sort of. I mean, I guess you call it a subculture that, you know, we hadn't been highlighting in the past. And, you know, beyond making it relevant again, I think they found out they were missing out on an entire readership that they had never targeted before.

[Josh Clark]

Right, for sure. And the one other impact that it had too, is they helped instruct people how to set up your home grow system. So as like, hydroponic systems started kind of going from a thing you had to put together by going to 50 different stores to like, you can buy this entire hydroponic system through the pages of High Times. They help people learn how to do that along the way. And as a result, pot just started at the same time. When it became fashionable again in the early 90s, it got exponentially better than it had been leading up to that. It was like somebody threw a switch and all of a sudden pot was what you see or think of it now, like just sticky buds and gorgeous, like, beautiful flowers and all that stuff. Like that really was much more potent. Like, that happened at about the exact same time as. As like the Chronic and Snoop Dogg coming out and all that. Like 92, 93 is when it really changed.

[Chuck Bryant]

I was talking to my friend Clay the other day because he is who introduced us to the Chronic when we would. I think I've said this before, but we went over to his house and play like, the Nintendo, whatever the system was. What was the one back then?

[Josh Clark]

It wasn't the 64. Was it Super Nintendo?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the 64.

[Josh Clark]

Was it 64?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So we go over there and play Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat and Clay one day was like, dude, listen to this. Puts on the chronic. And Snoop Dogg's voice came out of the speaker. And we were all into hip hop at the time. But Snoop Dogg, he didn't sound like anybody else at the time.

[Josh Clark]

No.

[Chuck Bryant]

So when his voice came out, we were like, who is this guy? So. Oh, my God. And, like, how funny. And I was talking to him the other day. I was like, how funny back then. Like, would you ever think that now Snoop Dogg is like this. I mean, one of the most famous people in the world.

[Josh Clark]

I know. The mascot of USA Olympics from the.

[Chuck Bryant]

Past summer, working with Martha Stewart, it's like, I don't think anybody saw that coming.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, that was a good documentary, too, by the way.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, I haven't seen that one yet. Is it good? Hey, I don't know if everyone knows this. Jerry's been to Martha Stewart's house.

[Josh Clark]

I didn't know that, did I?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, she told us a while ago at one point she was doing something with the company. I don't know if whatever happened with that, but Jerry, like, went to her house and she said it was a real mess.

[Josh Clark]

That's crazy. I believe it, though. There's probably, like, felt scraps everywhere and hefty bone chicken and things like that just sitting around.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hodgepodge bottles just spilled all over the place. No, it's perfect. So High Times, Back to high times from 88 to 2013, there was an editor in chief named Steven Hager that ran the joint, and he. God, man, I am not even meaning to. I swear I'm not. He ran High Times magazine. This is when they. I mean, they had always talked about legalization, but this is when they really, really got into writing and beating that drum about not decriminalizing, but, like, legalizing weed for everybody.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Like, they moved the. That Overton window and made just the concept of legal weed something. It's. They took it from something like a dorm room conversation to this is how you would do it. Here's a path to legalization.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

States, you know. Yeah, yeah. And they just made it like a potential thing, like a real concept. They brought it into existence and helped push it along, I should say. They covered the people who were out there, like, yeah, coming into or bringing it into existence or really thinking about it. But through covering them and exposing them to millions of people every month, that kind of got the whole idea out there.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. The normal norml. That was it, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Thomas Forsad helped bankroll them in their early days. The National Organization for the Rethinking of Marijuana Legislation. Reform of Marijuana Legislation.

[Chuck Bryant]

Realization Reform.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, reform.

[Chuck Bryant]

I went to one of the Atlanta Piedmont park used to have in the 90s, the normal pot rally concerts.

[Josh Clark]

You went to that?

[Chuck Bryant]

I went to one of them one year when the Black Crows played, and it was a lot of fun. It was a great show. I liked them for a little while back then, and it was really good.

[Josh Clark]

You were sitting amid a sea of brass bowls with, like, the tie dye, little plastic middles that you would hold onto.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, well, nobody was smoking weed. It was really weird.

[Josh Clark]

That's a little weird. That's so Atlanta.

[Chuck Bryant]

So, yeah, they were advocating it such that there was an article in 2013 in the Nation that said High Times Magazine may be the most influential publication of our era. So it wasn't just, you know, cheeky articles and pictures of beautiful buds. It was like they were doing real work toward sea change. And it worked.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. And yet at the same time, especially in, like, the magazine industry, they're just dismissed as, you know, they're just stoners. They're potheads. Right. And they don't care. They don't seem to. They don't go after awards. They don't, like, submit their writers work for awards and stuff like that. They genuinely don't seem to care about that kind of stuff because they're off doing, like, their own thing and they're actually doing it. But I saw a citation of how popular culture thinks of High Times from. They cited a Saturday Night Live skit featuring Jack Black. And he played High Times top reporter. And he was like, I think at a press conference or whatever, and he would stand up to ask a question, and then he would forget what he was gonna say every time.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, of course.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I thought it was hilarious. I didn't even see it.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, no, no, it's funny. I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm just saying, like, yeah, that's gotta be the sketch is that he has no memory.

[Josh Clark]

Right. But I could not find it anywhere. And it's. I just read about it. Like, all the other stuff I'm talking about, I didn't experience it firsthand. I've just read about it.

[Chuck Bryant]

I feel like I saw it back then. But I do remember that one of the issues I had, and this had to be from the 2000s, was Tenacious D was on the COVID Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And I think Jack Black himself was as well.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, I mean, he is one half of Tenacious D, but I mean, just without Kyle, he's like, let me do one without that guy.

[Josh Clark]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, we have been remiss and not taking a second break, so we're gonna do that now and we're gonna talk about what has happened over the last decade or 20 years or so, right after this.

[Jon Stewart]

Stuff you should know, Josh and Shaw.

[Josh Clark]

Stuff you should know.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, Chuck, so we were talking about how Stephen Hager guided High Times through, like, a really prolific era. This is, like, in the 90s, I feel like. And I don't. Maybe I'm just talking because that was the time I came in contact with it. It feels like that's when it really transition into, like, an iconic thing that was never really gonna go away, even if it went away. You know what I'm saying?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, agreed.

[Josh Clark]

So in 2004, as I understand it, I believe Hager retired in 2003. And so the replacement they brought in for editor in chief, as far as I know, I think we've both seen conflicting stuff. Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I might have said 2013 too, which was. It was probably 2003.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, gotcha. Okay, so Richard Stratton came in as the editor in chief, and he had bona fides. He served eight years in federal prison for dealing pot.

[Chuck Bryant]

I thought you were talking about editor in chief. Bonafides.

[Josh Clark]

No, he didn't have those. That was the other thing. He was a journalist. He'd reinvented himself as a journalist. He. I think he had some books under his. His belt. He wasn't like a bad pick. He made a bad pick. Yeah, he was very good friends with Norman Mailer. And in fact, one of the reasons he went to prison is he refused to implicate Norman Mailer in his pot dealing activities. And when he became editor in chief of High Times, he hired Norman Mailer's son, John Buffalo mailer. Who was 25 at the time.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Hired him as executive editor and yeah, I like his name. John Buffalo Mailer had zero publishing experience whatsoever. And the whole thing, it was just, this is a bad time for High Times.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it was ill conceived. I think they didn't quite know where to go after the sort of. It's not like the hip hop era ended any, you know, mention of weed or anything like that. But it was, it was sort of past that. You know, everything changes from decade to decade culturally. And they didn't quite know what to do, I think. So they said, hey, why don't we do this? Why don't we try and sort of change the image of the magazine and become just more of a sort of a cultural magazine. Like essentially, let's stop writing about weed exclusively and let's really stop writing about weed almost altogether. And that lasted for about a year. They did not like that. The readership was like, what are you doing? The whole point of this magazine is that it's High Times and it's not about freedom. It's about freedom to smoke weed specifically and grow it specifically. And like I said, about a year later, in fact, it was one year later, I think they were like, we really screwed up here. And so they went back in 2005 with a big cover that said the buds are back and 30 pages of pot pics on the inside. And everyone was like, oh, thank God. And it was one of their best selling issues of all time.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And they brought Steve Hager back in to kind of right the ship again.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

And he did like this. High Times started the idea that we should legalize marijuana. Worked at it ceaselessly for decades and finally was still around when that change started happening and states started talking about actually legalizing pot. Not decriminalizing, but legalizing pot, like you said, not just for medicinal purposes, but hey, if you're an adult and you want to smoke pot, go ahead and smoke pot. You're not going to get in trouble because we don't have any laws against it anymore. Like this was starting to happen and High Times was right there, totally poised to just step up and accept its kudos and its huge, like, rise to prominence as this new changed culture around pot was about to just explode. And around this time, private equity got involved and everything went down the toilet.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, that's the irony of this whole thing is right when they achieved all that is when they, they, they tanked because of what's called the green Gold rush. Wall street, of course, Anytime they're like, oh, wait a minute, somebody's making money over there doing something. A lot of money. Well, how can we get involved? And that's exactly what happened. They started. Investors started throwing money, money at every cannabis startup you could think of. As states were rolling out legalization and making tons and tons of money. And so they realized, hey, this High Times magazine is just sitting there. It's a very recognizable brand. The magazine's okay, their website's all right, but they make like 80% of their dough from what's called the Cannabis cup, which is. I think it started out as a smaller thing in Amsterdam, but then became like the official High Times Cannabis cup in the United States in 2010, which is a weed growing competition. So bring in your new strains of exotic crossbreeds and high potency buds and you can win the Cannabis Cup. And it's a big deal. It received a lot of coverage. They did concerts, they did festivals, they did trade shows, and it was a big money maker. So I think they were like, hey, we can invest in High Times. We can open up a casino in Vegas maybe. They bought up a dozen dispensaries and made them High Time smoke shops. They talked about delivery services and they talked about an IPO for a while, which never happened. But all of this stuff, a lot of these big deals never came to fruition. And so they found themselves eventually $100 million in debt as these deals fell apart after going through just a string of CEOs, which has never. It's always a bad sign for a company, you know, when you have that kind of CEO turnover.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And a lot of those dispensaries closed. And in the. In the middle of the boom of the real marijuana industry, High Times was struggling and basically dead again.

[Josh Clark]

Because private equity got involved.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Josh Clark]

There's a really good Politico article called the Long Fall of High Times by Ben Schreckinger.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And it's really worth three. It's very long, but it's good. And that article puts the blame on Adam Levin, who ran Aurava Capital. He's the one who came in as the private equity guy and made all of these terrible decisions, did shady stuff like the announcements for, you know, some of these business ventures. Like, they would announce them publicly and then the other company involved would have to come out publicly and be like, they haven't even approached us about this. What they just said is not true. So that's not a good thing to do. Yeah, that IPO was a big deal. Too. Because if you have investors, they want you to go public, and then they can really start making money off the company. He just couldn't get it together to get the IPO out the door. Yet. That didn't keep them from selling pre sale shares at $11 apiece to high Times readers, promising them they were getting in on the bottom floor before the IPO even happened. Just shady stuff. And so this lasted for just a couple of years before the magazine, the whole brand went into receivership, meaning that there was a coin appointed, like, person who was in charge of their assets, who would try to figure out how to help them get out of bankruptcy or how to help them get out of a hole without going into bankruptcy while at the same time paying off their creditors. And I guess it didn't really work because in, I guess, May of last year, the receiver said, hey, we're gonna have a fire sale. Everybody step up. Get out your checkbooks. Let's do this thing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Seven million bucks. We'll get you the magazine, the cannabis cup, the dispensaries that we still have open. Nobody came forward, which is shocking. I think the most shocking thing to me. And I'm gonna say this publicly, I'm gonna call out publicly, even. Why hasn't Snoop Dogg and freaking Martha Stewart, they wouldn't miss $7 million. They wouldn't even know it's gone. Why have they not bought this brand? Because that sort of public, like, purchase with those two names, or even if it's just a Snoop Dogg, but Martha Stewart would add a funny sort of cachet to it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like it would all of a sudden be a relevant thing again. And I don't know, it's just. It's shocking that nobody came forward to buy it.

[Josh Clark]

I hope that that ends up being like your Sharknado thing or like the Jared from Subway thing or like your Hugh Jackman greatest showman thing. I hope that comes true. Thanks to you.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe somebody who knows Snoop hears this and they're like, hey, Snoop, he may not even know it's for sale.

[Josh Clark]

You know, it's possible he's been on the COVID a bunch, but he might not be paying attention, you know?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, they could say, snoop, High Times is for sale. You should buy it. And he would say, for schnizzle.

[Josh Clark]

Right. So I read a great quote from Pot Culture magazine. So High Times has just stopped. They. They put out their last published issue in 2024. And the fact that they were still putting out a print magazine actually says how strong the brand was at One point, because they went right through that time where magazines were just folding print. Anything was just folding left and right. And yet they still had the print magazine. And they had a pretty heavyweight website, too. Hightimes.com had their whole archive, all the magazines on it. And yet the website hasn't been updated since June 2024. The last issue was September 2024. If you go on to the site, none of the images work. They're all grayed out rectangles. Very disappointing. And pop culture magazine put it that the once mighty hightimes.com is gone, reduced to an error message that is reminiscent of finding your favorite uncle dead on the floor.

[Chuck Bryant]

I saw that quote.

[Josh Clark]

I don't think anybody could have put it better than that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. I also just realized with the ultimate 50 something year old white guy, I think it would probably be for shizzle and not for schnizzle, because for sure would be for shizzle, right?

[Josh Clark]

Sure it would be for sure. But I think that things have evolved so much that you're fine.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, good. So, yeah, Snoop, Martha, please do buy High Times because it's such an ignominious and is that the right word or was I just deleterious to my own vocabulary?

[Chuck Bryant]

Ignominious. Ignominious. Ignoramus, I think is what you meant.

[Josh Clark]

No. Such a unclassy end. Yeah, it's just like that magazine deserves better than that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, maybe Jack Black, he's not gonna miss 7 million bucks.

[Josh Clark]

Maybe, maybe.

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, he might miss it for the afternoon, but then he would say, but I've got this magazine now.

[Josh Clark]

No, I'm with you. I think Martha Stewart has that much laying under in piles under her hodgepodge bottles that you were talking about, you know?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, you're probably right.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, well, that's it about High Times. If you want to know more about. There's tons of tribute articles all over the web to read. They're kind of fun. And while you're doing that, it's time for listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, this is from Rosalie. And it's just a very kind sort of gentle reminder, which is always nice to hear. Hey, guys, it's taken me a while to get this into words, and I hope it comes across with care. It does.

[Josh Clark]

But why do you suck so much?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, exactly. As a woman in science who does science every day, I just want to point out that technicians are still scientists. In your episode on chemistry sets, you rightly pointed out all the sexism in the past and present and how science is presented to girls versus boys. But you also feed into it a little bit when you said that girls were funneled into technician jobs instead of being the scientists. There are a lot of ways to be a scientist, and technician is definitely one of them. That's like saying that nurses aren't healers like doctors are. A more accurate description is that women were and are funneled into technician and now communication jobs in the sciences and men to the professors and principal investigators. It is better than it has ever been, I have to say, but academia still hasn't figured it out, among other things. And that I'm glad to know that Rosalie and that's from Rosalie Maltby.

[Josh Clark]

That was a great reminder. We love, love, love, love being reminded. Or when it's pointed out to us that yes, we fed into something that we were just totally unaware of. Especially if it's unjust, you know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, technicians are scientists. Of course they are.

[Josh Clark]

That's right. That should be a T shirt.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe it will be.

[Josh Clark]

Well, thanks a lot Rosalie. We appreciate that big time. If you want to be like Rosalie and send us an email like that, you can send it off to stuffpodcastradio.com.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows this Valentine's Day. Celebrate every love story with Pandora. Whether it's romantic, platonic, familial or a gesture of self love, Pandora's versatile designs let you express your unique connections in meaningful ways. Each piece tells a story of love or friendship that transcends materialism, turning every gift into a heartfelt message that connects hearts from best friends to significant others. Pandora helps you honor the bonds that make life richer and more meaningful. Make the feeling last from first sight to forever. On Valentine's Day and every day. Be Love Shop Pandora Jewelry today in store or [e-mail] Jon Stewart is back.

[Jon Stewart]

At the Daily show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors, and with extended interviews and extended exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chuck Bryant]

Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life. Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology. From high tech to low culture and everywhere in between. Join us Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.