The Catacombs of Paris

Summary

Stuff You Should Know: Episode Summary – The Catacombs of Paris

Episode Title: The Catacombs of Paris
Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant
Release Date: February 4, 2025
Production: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction to the Paris Catacombs

In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, hosts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve deep into the enigmatic underground tunnels of Paris, famously known as the Catacombs. They explore the history, architecture, cultural significance, and modern-day mysteries of these subterranean passages beneath the City of Light.

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Historical Origins and Purpose

Formation of the Tunnels
Josh initiates the discussion by highlighting the extensive network of tunnels beneath Paris, stating, “Paris is sitting on top of a vast network of tunnels” (07:43). Chuck elaborates on the geological history, explaining that during the Lutetian period, erosion events led to the formation of Parisian limestone, which was extensively mined over the past two millennia. This mining activity resulted in the creation of over 300 kilometers of tunnels, comparable to “32 square kilometers” of underground space (07:53; 08:22).

Cemetery Overcrowding and the Ossuary Solution
By the late 18th century, Paris faced a severe overcrowding of cemeteries, leading to public health crises. Chuck narrates how King Louis XVI established the Inspection Générale des Carrières (IGC) in 1777 to oversee the stabilization of the underground quarries and address the "millions body problem" by relocating remains from overcrowded graves to the abandoned tunnels (10:37; 11:29). This transformation officially consecrated the Catacombs as an ossuary in April 1786, a term chosen for its macabre allure over the more clinical "Paris Ossuary" (12:45).

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Architectural and Artistic Elements

Bone Stacking and Artistic Displays
Josh and Chuck discuss the unique way bodies were transferred and organized within the Catacombs. Chuck recounts how, under the supervision of a quarry inspector named Louis Étienne, bones were meticulously arranged into decorative patterns, creating walls of stacked femurs, tibias, and skulls with “eye sockets facing out” (13:07; 14:18). This artistic endeavor transformed the Catacombs into a haunting yet fascinating exhibition of human remnants.

Notable Structures within the Catacombs
The hosts describe various chambers, such as “La Plage” (30:11), which features a sandy floor and painted beach scenes, evoking eerie parallels to the Lost Boys' hideout in the Peter Pan narrative. They also mention the underground reservoir beneath the Paris Opera House, an architectural feat designed to manage water infiltration during construction, which inspired elements of The Phantom of the Opera (38:38; 39:04).

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Cultural Impact and Modern Usage

Tourist Attraction and Accessibility
Josh shares his personal experience visiting the Catacombs with his family, highlighting the surreal encounter when his niece mistook the bones for “boobs,” illustrating how the mind can become desensitized to the macabre details (04:10). The Catacombs have long been a tourist attraction, officially opened to the public since Napoleon's time in 1809. Today, visitors navigate through the tunnels via spiral staircases, experiencing the constant “sodium light” that casts an orangish hue, enhancing the eerie atmosphere (26:16; 27:04).

Unauthorized Access and Cataphiles
Josh and Chuck delve into the subculture of "cataphiles" – urban explorers who illegally traverse the Catacombs. These enthusiasts have historically used the tunnels for various clandestine activities, including parties, movie screenings, and even setting up secret theaters like the one established by the group Le Mexican de la Perforation (32:27; 36:02). The hosts discuss the organized efforts by the Cataflix, a special police detachment, to monitor and prevent unauthorized access, emphasizing the ongoing tension between preserving the Catacombs and the rebellious spirit of the cataphiles (36:02; 37:14).

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Paranormal Tales and Legends

Ghost Stories
Adding to the mystique, Josh and Chuck recount ghost stories associated with the Catacombs. One prominent tale involves Philibert Aspert, a military hospital worker who supposedly got lost with his candle in the late 18th century. Legend has it that his spirit welcomes the living with the words “Bienvenue” as his candle flickers out (45:37; 46:33).

Suspicious Videos and Modern Myths
They also touch on viral videos, such as a 2017 footage of a person allegedly getting lost in the tunnels, which remains unverified and likely fictional. These stories contribute to the Catacombs' reputation as a place of both historical significance and supernatural intrigue (47:05; 47:09).

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Criminal Activities and Preservation Efforts

Theft and Vandalism
The Catacombs have not been immune to criminal activities. In 2017, thieves reportedly stole over a quarter-million dollars' worth of wine stored in a cave by a winery, highlighting the ongoing issues of security and preservation (44:59; 45:13). Additionally, bone theft has been a persistent problem, often driven by demand from medical students and collectors (45:18; 45:24).

Maintenance and Structural Integrity
Chuck emphasizes the IGC's longstanding role in maintaining the structural integrity of the Catacombs since their establishment in 1777. Efforts to shore up tunnels have been crucial in preventing collapses, although occasional sinkholes still pose risks (09:14; 37:16).

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Media Representations and Inspirations

Influence on Literature and Games
The Catacombs have inspired various forms of media. The hosts reference The Phantom of the Opera, where the Phantom resides in an underground lake, a concept mirrored by the actual reservoir under the Opera House. Additionally, the video game Assassin’s Creed Unity features the Catacombs, blending historical elements with fictional narratives (38:38; 40:16).

Photography and Early Documentation
Chuck mentions Felix Nadar, a pioneering 19th-century photographer, who utilized the Catacombs for some of his first artificial light photographs, capturing the eerie essence of the tunnels (41:45; 42:03).

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Conclusion and Reflections

Josh and Chuck conclude the episode by reflecting on their experiences and the multifaceted nature of the Catacombs. They appreciate the site not only for its historical and architectural marvels but also for its ongoing allure to adventurers and storytellers alike. Chuck humorously mentions corrections from listeners regarding historical inaccuracies, underscoring the importance of accurate storytelling in their explorations (48:00; 50:35).

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Notable Quotes:

• Josh Clark (07:43): “Paris is sitting on top of a vast network of tunnels.”
• Charles W. Chuck Bryant (10:16): “We're going to start moving bodies out of here. We have a millions body problem.”
• Josh Clark (04:10): “They're like boobs, right? She said, I would be if these were real.”
• Charles W. Chuck Bryant (13:07): “A skull should be known as a head bone.”
• Josh Clark (26:16): “It's just a weird place to be.”
• Charles W. Chuck Bryant (36:02): “Those qualified candidates... you can feel confident that you're gonna be getting the best.”

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Final Thoughts

The episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the Paris Catacombs, blending historical facts with cultural anecdotes and personal experiences. Josh and Chuck provide listeners with a vivid portrayal of one of Paris's most intriguing and haunting landmarks, making it a must-listen for history enthusiasts, urban explorers, and fans of the macabre alike.

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For more insightful discussions and deep dives into fascinating topics, listen to Stuff You Should Know on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

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[Osvaldo Loschen]

Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff, we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology. From high tech to low culture and everywhere in between. Join us listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And we are going deep underneath the city of Paris. City of lights. A city too busy to sleep because it eats. Big app in this episode of Step youp Should Know.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's right. Big thanks to Anna for the contribution here on the Paris Catacombs. Have you ever toured the Paris Catacombs?

[Josh Clark]

Yes, I have. Have you?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I have not. And I think I remember you telling me that you had. I've been to Paris three times. Have not yet done this. It was not on my radar. The first two didn't have time the third trip. So if and when I ever get back to Paris, it's on the list.

[Josh Clark]

I recommend it. Have you ever been to the Moulin Rouge?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, so the Moulin Rouge is generally topless dance numbers typically, right?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Did you notice that when you're at the Moulin Rouge, boobs just. There were so many boobs everywhere that they just totally lost all context and meaning.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. 12 year old Chuck was like, I don't understand what's happening.

[Josh Clark]

Right. But I'll bet even 12 year old Chuck was like yawning by the end of it. Right? Because there's just so many boobs everywhere that they're just. It does. It doesn't mean anything anymore. The Catacombs are the Moulin Rouge of human Bones.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, so many skulls that it's just like, whatever. There's another skull.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, yeah. It's bizarre because you realize you're just like, ho hum. There's another dead body, there's another dead body, there's another leg bone. But it's still worth going to just because it's so bizarre. But there's just so many human bones around you that you just. It's like your brain just gets saturated and you just stop thinking of them like that.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

So the jsat, the Josh SAT would be Moulin Rouge is to boobs as the Paris catacombs is to blank human bones.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that'd be the right answer choice.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

A.

[Josh Clark]

What would be the other choices?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man, I don't know. I haven't taken a test like that in so long. That'd be fun to take the SAT again.

[Josh Clark]

Would it?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I think so.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, sure.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

How long does that take?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. But it's changed since we were there. Hours. I remember it taking hours. It used to actually test IQ and now it just tests like retention.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, well, I'm screwed.

[Josh Clark]

So here's the other answers. Chuck. Cod fishing.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Modge podge.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

There's got to be one close one like gravesite or something.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, There you go.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

And you'd be like, no, no grave wax.

[Josh Clark]

Do you remember that from back in the day.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Is that the human goop that seeps out that you can make soap out of? Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Pretty awesome.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

All right. That's a great jsat. We should have our own stuff. You should know sat, that'd be a fun thing to design.

[Josh Clark]

It would be fun. I have one more story about the catacombs.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Let's hear it.

[Josh Clark]

So when we went, I've only been once and it was a few years back, but we went with my brother in law and sister in law and our niece, very famous Mila, who's been in movies. She played young Mary in the movie Mary that came out on Netflix this past Christmas. Did you know that?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

No. And you didn't shout that one out, so I'm glad you are.

[Josh Clark]

Well, we were off so I didn't get a chance to. But it's definitely worth watching. It's like pretty religious movie. I mean, it's about Mary, the mother. Oh, Mary, Mary, yeah, yeah, that Mary. You're like, ah, Mary, Mary. Sure. And it is fascinating. Like my. Actually my brother in law also was a producer on it too. And they. It has like action. It has like, it's a thriller. It has like a really evil villain played by Anthony Hopkins. Like, it's just a really good movie that you'll watch from beginning to end. Be like, this is pretty good.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I have to check it out. And I'm also going to forgive you for when I said Mary, Mary, for.

[Josh Clark]

Not saying, why you buggin.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Thank you. You passed. You're back in the good phrases.

[Josh Clark]

Well, anyway. Oh, back to my story. So little Mila, she must have been 5ish at the time. She went to the catacombs with us. Right. So she's walking around this ossuary with bones and human skulls everywhere. And Yumi. Or I asked her, like, are you scared right now? And she said, I would.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

No.

[Josh Clark]

They're like boobs, right? She. Right. She said, I would be if these were real. We were like. We just looked at each other out of the corners of our eyes, and we're like, well, let's look over here now.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Right, Exactly.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Wow. That's adorable.

[Josh Clark]

It was very adorable. What's funny is the irony of the whole thing is this is the same kid at about the same age who was scared to death on the movie ride at Disney Hollywood Studios, but is standing there in an ossuary, millions of bones, human bones and skulls, and is.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Like, yeah, that's pretty funny.

[Josh Clark]

So those are all my stories about the catacombs. I figure we should probably start talking about it.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So this is. I mean, let's go back in time, I guess. I mean, we know already what it is. It's a series of underground tunnels where more than 6 million Parisians are there, you know, forever. What's crazy, Unless they decide to move them again.

[Josh Clark]

Right, right. But you have no idea who's who. Like, one bone doesn't belong to another bone. No idea whose skull is who. It's crazy.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah. So if you go back in time, let's say 45 million years during the Lutetian period, there was an erosion event that caused a lot of what became to be known as Lutetian or Paris rock, or Paris limestone or Parisian limestone deposited there. And that is if you go to Paris and you see everything as that sort of creamy gray, that's what that is. And that's what gives Paris its distinct look, because they had loads and loads and loads of it. And the reason we're starting with this is because the mining of that Lutetian limestone is where these tunnels started about 2,000 years ago on the banks of the rivers there, they had these quarries where they would mine the heck out of this stuff. And before you know it, Paris is sitting on top of a vast network of tunnels.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Something like 32 square kilometers of tunnels, which, to put in American terms, is like a lot of bananas.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yes.

[Josh Clark]

10 times the size of Central park, apparently, is underneath Paris.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I think it's 300km of tunnels. Isn't that just nuts?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

It's a lot.

[Josh Clark]

But, I mean, if you think about it, if you mine an area, a small, relatively small area for a couple thousand years, you're going to. You're going to make some headway eventually. And that's what they did. The key is this, Chuck. Originally, these quarries were sensibly well outside of the city of Paris.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

But we're talking about a very, very tiny, original city of Paris that eventually grew and grew and grew. And over time, Paris overtook these old quarries that in most cases were no longer used or mined any longer. So the city built itself over abandoned mines that people had just plumb forgotten about.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And that presents a couple of very big problems. First of all, if you've got a city growing and growing and getting built on and built on and getting heavier and heavier, and a lot of the underground has been dug out, that is a problem. And there were numerous incidents of sinkholes, of buildings collapsing into themselves, of all kinds of tragedies happening over the years throughout the history of Paris, because it was built on hollow ground in a lot of places.

[Josh Clark]

Right. That's why another very famous nickname for Paris is the Florida of Europe.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I'm sure they love that. The other big problem is that Parisians used to love burying themselves in Paris. Like, you wanted to be laid to rest in the city where you grew up and lived your life at your church typically, too. Yeah, like, very, very locally. And by the 18th century, late 18th century, this was a big, big problem. There were too many bodies. Disease was being spread. So this led to a couple of things. I think in the 1730s, there was an actual parliamentary commission study about how disease from these, you know, dead people everywhere in Paris was hurting the city. And then it took about 40 years. Eventually, in 1777, King Louis, the. What is that? 16th, created the IGC. You want to pronounce that?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yes, please. The Inspection General Des.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

And what were they charged with?

[Josh Clark]

So carrieres is French for careers, and another word for career is a path or tunnel. So this was the commission overseeing mines and mine shafts in Paris.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Right. So basically, hey, we got this report 40 years ago that no one's acted on. So we need to really start looking into this stuff. And Chief Inspector can you pronounce his name?

[Josh Clark]

Charles Axel F. Guillemot.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

He came along as the chief inspector and said, all right, you know what, we're going to shore up these mines and make sure they're not going to keep collapsing. And also we're going to start moving bodies out of here. We got a body problem, not a three body problem. We have a millions body problem. And we're going to start moving bodies out of. Let's start with the oldest one, the Holy Innocents Cemetery, which has been around since 1186. Let's start moving things out of here and from other cemeteries. Close these things down and start moving them into these old mine shafts.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, and like you said, there was a body problem. I think you kind of touched on it a second ago where there was a general sense of disease coming from these putrefying bodies that were just piling up in the cemeteries. But structurally speaking, also. So, like, I guess at the time in France, they would bury you with a bunch of other people who died at the same time in a group pit, let you decompose. After five years, they would bury you up and then they would just deposit your bones in an ossuary. They were like, here's a bunch of bones. Let's move on to the next group of people and bury them for five years. So many people's bones built up over the years that neighborhoods built near this. They're like cellars would collapse in and bones would just come out because of the pressure put on these huge piles of bones that were building up. So there was a huge problem with it. But I also read that that was a. A bit of like a cover story that they were really interested that the government of Paris was interested in reclaiming some really great real estate now. And so they did this whether people liked it or not. And they actually went into these cemeteries and moved the bones under the COVID of night.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's right. To the tunnels. And people are like, you're doing what?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

They said, don't worry about it. Just go back to sleep. And from 1785 to 1787, over a couple of years, they. Not only from Holy Innocents, but all the nearby cemeteries, they moved these bodies. In April of 1786, the catacombs were consecrated. Officially, it was called the Paris Ossuary at first, but catacombs sounds creepier, I guess.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, have I been saying ossuary?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I think so.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, man. Thank you for gently correcting me.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Well, I wasn't sure how it was pronounced, to be honest.

[Josh Clark]

I sound like A six year old kid trying to pronounce it.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

So catacombs took over as the sort of, you know, the go to word. And they kind of just dumped him in there for a While until in 1810, there was a new quarry inspector who said, maybe we can have a little fun with this.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So just to be clear, when they move the bones from the graveyard to these abandoned mine shafts, they would just go up to a hole in the ground and dump bones into the mine shaft and they would just pile up where they fell at the bottom of the mine shaft. That's how they were transferred. And like you said, finally one of the inspectors, a quarry inspector, name Louis Etienne, Harry Card Detouri. Pretty sure I said that. Right.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Nice.

[Josh Clark]

He said, like you said, let's have some fun. So he got busy with his quarrymen stacking bones into these now famous configurations of tibias and fibias and finger bones and thigh bones and neck bones and then head bones. Finally, all of them with their eye sockets facing out. They built walls throughout the whole. These whole catacombs that had been designated an ossuary or in French, an ossuary.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And I think from now to the end of time, a skull should be known as a head bone.

[Josh Clark]

Isn't that what it is in that old Dry bone song? Isn't that what they call it?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, is it? What? Connected to the head bone. That one?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Don't they say that?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, I don't know.

[Josh Clark]

I think so.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I don't remember that part.

[Josh Clark]

That's like the part.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, well, what was connected to it?

[Josh Clark]

I think the neck bone. Yeah, yeah, probably so.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

And the neck bone's connected to the skull.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And then everybody just stops singing and goes home.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So like you mentioned, there are no headstones there. So you don't know who is who? We do know there are some famouses there, like Robespierre, very famous statesman. Is there. There's a painter named Simon Vouet.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

What? How would you say that?

[Josh Clark]

A. Yeah, you're right. I was gonna say ET but there'd be an extra T E, I think.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay. And then this guy. I think we should maybe do a show on at some point. Charles. I would say Perrault as an American. But what is that? Perel?

[Josh Clark]

Mm. Let's just go with your. I say ossiery. So I don't know why you're asking me.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Well, you took French. I didn't. This guy was like the granddaddy of the modern fairy tale. So he wrote Little Red Riding Hood and Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty and Puss in Boots and. Yeah, didn't know about this guy.

[Josh Clark]

He put them all into a collection that he attributed to Mother Goose. So I couldn't find definitively that he invented Mother Goose, but he certainly made Mother Goose a star.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That. You're gonna go a long way, baby. Stick with me. Should we take a break or you got something else?

[Josh Clark]

I. Oh, well, we should probably say that the reason why there's not a lot of people that you've heard of today, because they stopped adding bones in 1860. They said, that's enough. Sure, let's. This is a little nuts. Somebody thought of this, like, almost a hundred years ago. They were clearly insane. Paris went along with it. Let's just pretend like it was okay, but just stop doing it any further.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Jim Morrison can stay where he's at.

[Josh Clark]

I looked to see if he ever went and visited the Catacombs and I could not find that he ever did. So let's just say he didn't.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, just as a tourist. Oh, interesting.

[Josh Clark]

I just was curious.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Today I went to the Catacombs. I found my solace there.

[Josh Clark]

Right. It was awesome.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

All right, so now that break, and we're going to come back and talk about all the weird stuff that's happened there over the decades since. Hey, everyone. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you do. And that hiring partner is. Is LinkedIn jobs.

[Josh Clark]

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[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's right. Those qualified candidates. You know, at the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is gonna be the quality of those candidates. And with LinkedIn, you can feel confident that you're gonna be getting the best.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And actually, based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

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[Josh Clark]

So, Chuck, there's been at the catacombs, a lot of bone deposits, bone stacking, that kind of stuff. But that I think we said at the outset, that takes up just a really small amount of all of the tunnels that are under, that are under Paris. They've done some other really fascinating stuff. Dozens and dozens of different, interesting, really creative, inventive things with these tunnels. Right? Hundreds of different things.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yes, for sure. And I don't want to make you feel self conscious. I was laughing at a dirty joke that I couldn't say out loud.

[Josh Clark]

I want to know.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I'll tell you later.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I know.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah. So a lot of. I mean, monks used to make chartreuse down there. Was that the birthplace of chartreuse?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

In the catacombs.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I don't remember mentioning that in our Amaro episode, but we definitely talked about chartreuse.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. So that's one thing that happened back then, mushroom farming. There's been a great tradition of alcohol brewing actually over the years. Because, I mean, one of the great things about having an underground system like that is it's very stable, temperature wise. It's about 60 degrees Fahrenheit always.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Which is about 15 and a half degrees Celsius for our French friends.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's right. And so that means you can do a lot of stuff from like storing wine to storing brewing beer. Exactly.

[Josh Clark]

One of the things that made it so appealing, in addition to being able to keep it at like a constant cave temperature, cave age to anything is pretty great. Typically. This is also real estate in the heart of Paris that, you know, you can use some steps and Go up street side, and all of a sudden you're right there at your customers without having to pay the incredibly high price of real estate in Paris. Topside.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, good point.

[Josh Clark]

It's not mine. Topside.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Paris.

[Josh Clark]

I've read it somewhere.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Mushroom farming was another big deal, because one thing you don't need a ton of for most mushrooms is light. Sometimes you want them to fruit. You may be able to manipulate light or something like that, but generally mushroom growing can be done in very dark places. And so Starting in the 19th century, actual mushroom farming, and not just like, I'm going to grow a few mushrooms, like they were producing about a thousand tons of catacomb mushrooms a year.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. For some reason, I'm going to have to ask you never to use the word fruit and mushroom near each other again. I find it troubling for some reason.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Really?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Mushrooms, fruiting is. I don't like that at all.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's really funny.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

All right.

[Josh Clark]

But I'm serious, though.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

No, I'll never do it.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, thank you. Although you do owe me about seven or eight mentions for that oyster stew.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, that's right. I feel better now.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, good. Oh, yeah, that's right. You should tell everybody you're finally feeling good.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I'm finally feeling. Well. It was. I had some fruity mushrooms and everything's fine.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. So let's see what else. Chuck. Oh, I was totally joking when I said there's been hundreds of creative uses. There's been basically three, and two of them are technically the same, which is.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Brewing alcohol, mushroom farming. And what's the third?

[Josh Clark]

Brewing alcohol and brewing alcohol. Depending on which kind of alcohol. Beer or chartreuse. That's it.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

It's also been a good hidey spot over the years, depending on what's going on with the government. During the French Revolution, revolutionaries hid out down there and were chased down there.

[Josh Clark]

Sure.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

There was an alt right group in the 30s called. How would you pronounce that, Josh?

[Josh Clark]

La cagoul.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

La cagueul. They not only hid down there, but would use it as a way to get around and potentially break into government buildings. I guess from, you know, from the bottom.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Until the 50s and in some cases even decades after that, there were a lot of buildings in Paris who had doors, sometimes forgotten doors in their cellars or basements that led directly to the catacombs or the underground tunnels in Paris.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Pretty cool.

[Josh Clark]

So it was kind of easy to get down there for a very long time. It's actually really recent that it's now very hard to get into the off limits parts, but as we'll see, that doesn't actually deter anybody.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

No, of course not. During World War II, obviously, there's gonna be either Nazis down there or the French Resistance might be down there.

[Josh Clark]

Can't you just see them in like, adjoining tunnels, but not knowing that the other one's there?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that sounds like a Tarantino thing.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it does.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

But what they're most famous for now is being able to go down there with your niece, the movie star. Yeah, it's been a tourist attraction since Napoleon said, you know, it would be great. The year's 1809. I think it's high time we start letting people down there to tour this pretty cool thing. And it sort of vacillated over the years. It used to be like, you know, you could go down there once a month if you were a citizen of Paris, only sometimes it was like quarterly. Finally they said, you know what, let's just make money on this. And it's open, what, Tuesday to Sunday? I guess they close on Monday. Like a lot of museums, $9, 45 to 8:30. It'll cost you €31 these days, which is about the same in dollars, I think, right.

[Josh Clark]

Right now it's like 0.€96 to the dollar, I think today.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Okay, so pretty close. Man, you really keep up with that. Not bad.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Let me see how my euro stocks are doing.

[Josh Clark]

No, actually, to tell you the truth, I was going to translate the dollar that you could make off of a cow in our Tragedy of the Commons episode. Euros and stuff.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's how you found it.

[Josh Clark]

But we never got around to it.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's funny.

[Josh Clark]

I can also tell you it's 0.8 pounds to the dollar today as well. But a dollar 160 Australian dollars to the dollar.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Well, I just came back from Mexico City, so I basically just divide by 20.

[Josh Clark]

Is it 20 now? It was like 10 last time we were there. Has it changed? Am I just wrong? It was 20 back then, like last year.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, I don't know. But I think you divide by 20ish now. But my friends that we were with were like, I can't even think of it that way. I have to. I heard all you have to do is like drop a zero and then divide that in half. So everyone has their own jump on.

[Josh Clark]

One foot thinking about and shout, how much is this?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Exactly? How long does this tour take, Josh.

[Josh Clark]

You went through it an hour. I don't remember it taking an hour, more or less. I don't it was. It's weird because when you're in the catacombs, you're out of time. Like, there is no. No light whatsoever reaching you. The only light in there is electric, and apparently that's only been around since the 70s. Before that, they gave you a candle and said, good luck. But the light that is in there is almost. It makes it even eerier because it's sodium light. So it's got a kind of an orangish yellowish cast to it.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

It's just a weird place to be. So I believe that it's an hour, but I have no recollection of how long it took.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Okay, that sounds about right. You go down a big spiral staircase. There's a lot of stair climbing, obviously, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Yes, there is.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

Like 500 steps or something like that. So, yeah, you go down, like a spiral staircase, and there's multiple stairs.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So you're walking down, down, down. Before you enter, you go through something called the Port Mahon corridor, which has a replica of the Port Mahon fortress. I imagine that looks kind of cool, right?

[Josh Clark]

It does. I don't remember it, but I looked up a picture and a little bit on that. The guy who carved that was a. Not a hostage, an inmate at this prison for years and redid it from memory. Carved into the stone.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Wow. That's pretty cool.

[Josh Clark]

And he actually died there from a landslide or a rock in or something like that. I can't remember what it's called. While he was building some steps to get to it.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, geez. Yeah, he really caved in, huh?

[Josh Clark]

He dedicated his life to that thing.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's very sad.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. But appropriate for the catacombs, if you think about it.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

You can just stay right there if you die, like you mentioned, 72 is when electricity came along. There is something called Ariadne's thread, a black line to ensure that you don't get lost. And I thought, well, what a strange name that is.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, you looked it up too?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So Ariadne was the daughter of King Minos and was associated with mazes and labyrinths. And while it is a literal thing painted there, it's also, you know, ties back to Ariadne and the sort of like, while she was a person. It's also like a logic. Like applying logic to all possible routes of a maze to get out. Is Ariadne as well.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I also saw that she helped Theseus get out of the labyrinth by leaving a thread for him to follow back after he slew the Minotaur.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. What does this look like, though? I couldn't find any pictures of this actually, in the cataclysm.

[Josh Clark]

I don't remember it either.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

It's supposedly on the ceiling. I think it's just a black line.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Okay, that's. Yeah, boy. You don't remember much about this.

[Josh Clark]

I don't. It's weird. Like, I have pictures of it, and I remember the thing with Mila, but, like, a lot of these pictures that I went and looked at online, I'm like, I don't remember seeing that at all. I don't think I was drunk. I'm pretty sure I was fairly sober. I think I just. My episodic memories shot the Holy heck.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

You remember those boobs?

[Josh Clark]

I do. I guess they made more of an.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Impression on me than I remembered you mentioned. Well, let's talk about some of these chambers. A lot of them are, like, the coolest parts of the catacombs, are not open to the public and technically, officially illegal and off limits, so.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. That may be why I don't remember.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Some of these, because they weren't. The super cool ones were not on.

[Josh Clark]

The tour, I guess. Hey, man, I'm just grasping at straws here. Help me out.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Well, I looked at some pictures of some of these. The La Plage, which means the beach, is a really cool room because it's got a sandy floor, and they painted it like a beach scene on the wall. But it looks. I mean, all these places look like where the Lost Boys might hang out, you know?

[Josh Clark]

That was one of the coolest things about that movie. That backstory that the crazy Amazing Rich Hotel slid into the ocean, and now that's where they lived, and there were old chandeliers kind of hanging around.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I thought about that. Yeah. Yeah, that's totally what it was.

[Josh Clark]

Super cool cool.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. What else? What other cool rooms are off limits?

[Josh Clark]

That's it.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

You're not going to talk about Sala Z or Zed?

[Josh Clark]

I did not look that one up. But there are. Let me give you a couple other ones. There was a group called Le Mexican de la Perforation. Let's just say it like that. They overtook one of the caves beneath the Palais de Chalet and set up a movie theater there with a bar and room for 20 people to watch a movie. And I did not find what movie they showed.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that is super cool. That was a subset of a group called ux, short for Urban Experiment. And they're these. It's an artist collective in Paris founded in 1981, and by a Group of teenagers back then that like they'll do this cool stuff. Like they snuck into the pantheon for months in a row to restore a clock there. But like on the down low.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I saw that was a subgroup of UX called the Unter Gunther and they were the ones that actually did the clock. UX is almost like an umbrella group.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, just like the group that did the movie theater. They were a subgroup.

[Josh Clark]

Right, exactly. And then UX also is like an acronym for urban explorer too, which these people also are. So they kind of almost made a play on slang, which is really something.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that is really something. But all of these people who sneak down there and do stuff are known as cataphiles. And those are the people, the urban adventurers who illegally find their way into the catacombs to. To party, to hang out, to show movies, to have concerts and parties and like.

[Josh Clark]

And show movies.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

All kinds of things are going on down there over the decades. And it seems to have really kicked off. I mean, they've been doing it since the 1800s. I think they had a Chopin like 45 piece orchestra. Did a Chopin concert down there.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, they played Chopin's Funeral March. And I was like, I'm not familiar with that one. It's Darth Vader's theme.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Is it? Or does it just sound like it?

[Josh Clark]

It's Darth Vader's. It's not possible that John Williams just coincidentally came up with that as Darth Vader's theme. Yeah, it's like an adaptation of the Funeral March.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Okay, well that's probably a well known thing then.

[Josh Clark]

It's gotta be. I've never heard that before though. Everything there is about Star Wars. Just try me.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

In the 70s and 80s is when it seems like the cataphiles really kind of took roost down there because it was a great place to go hide. Like the punk rock movement kind of moved downstairs. Underground. Literally underground. Hey. And they've tried to keep people out over the years, but like you said, people are going to find a way in if they want to.

[Josh Clark]

That's right. And I say we take another break and we'll come back and find out. Do people find their way in if they want to after this?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Let's do it.

[Osvaldo Loschen]

Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvaloshin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical but obsessively intrigued.

[Cara Price]

And I'm Cara Price, the other new host. And I'm Ready to adopt early and.

[Osvaldo Loschen]

Often on tech stuff. We travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality.

[Josh Clark]

How is it possible that the world's.

[Osvaldo Loschen]

New energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?

[Cara Price]

Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you understand how tech is changing our world and what you need to know to survive the singularity. So join us.

[Osvaldo Loschen]

Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

So, yeah, people do find their way in, like I said, and they've been doing that a lot since the beginning. And, you know, besides partying and doing drugs, like, there are all kinds of, like, cool works of art. There's murals painted on some walls, obviously all kinds of graffiti. Sometimes they leave messages and leaflets and things for each other to find and try to avoid. The cataflix, which is literally translated as catacops.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, which is a special, special detachment of the gendarmes that their whole thing is catching people down in the, in the tunnels. And from what I read that if you're a true cataphile, and I guess there was an article in The, I think 2015 or something like that that estimated there's around 100 genuine cataphiles, the. The cataflex are probably going to leave you alone. At the very least, just maybe give you a warning or something like that. If you're a tourist in the sense of like the fight club, support group tourist, then you're probably going to get that €60 fine. Because you really, as far as the cataflix are concerned, you have no business being down there. It's dangerous. You got no respect for tradition like the actual cataphiles do. And something else I read, Chuck, you're actually trespassing on private property because if you buy a piece of real estate in Paris, your ownership extends to whatever's below it in the underground. Wow, that sounds kind of cool. Until your house caves in and the city's like, it's your property top to bottom. So good luck with that.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Wow, I didn't know that. That's pretty cool.

[Josh Clark]

And they actually, at City hall make that sound when you come in to ask them for help.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

You know, Parisians pioneered the fart noise.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. The raspberry.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

The fine. The €60 you mentioned. I saw 65. I mean, that's just like double the cost of legal entry. So it's not the biggest fine.

[Josh Clark]

No, no, no. And it kind of does kind of give you a sense that it's not considered, like the crime of the century in Paris. But at the same time, there's a special police detachment to catch people doing that. So there's almost mixed messages with that.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. The igc, that inspection group with the French name, still maintains it. They've been doing so since 1777. And there are still collapses here and there, but it is mainly shored up. Oh, this other thing I thought was fun. The ways that people have found their way in. When they close off an area, sometimes the cataphiles will go in there and reopen it and make a way to get in. And they're called. I don't know how you would say it in French, but it translates as cat flaps, like a cat door. Kind of cool.

[Josh Clark]

Chatiers.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Chatiers.

[Josh Clark]

Shat is C H A T. That's cat.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh.

[Josh Clark]

And ears is flaps. I guess.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. It's been in a bunch of movies and stuff, too, Right.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. One of the most famous uses of the Paris Underground came in the Phantom of the Opera. And I'm not sure if it was in the original novel, although it probably was. But I certainly know that in the stage play or the musical, that's where the Phantom lives. But more to the point, there's supposedly, like, an underground lake there that the Phantom. Like Rose's Gondola on. Right.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Cool.

[Josh Clark]

There actually is an underground reservoir under the Paris Opera House. It's not an urban legend that Gaston Theroux made up. It's. It was. Or Andrew Lloyd Weber, one of the two. When they were building the Opera house, to keep the foundation from just filling up with water over and over again while they were building it, they built a reservoir to impound the water in. And so it's like 12ft deep by almost, I think, like 60 yards, 60 meters long. Little reservoir that you could conceivably sail a gondola on if you were the kind of person to live underground.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Do you know if the water. Is it continually filling up?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. Give me a break, man.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

What about the evaporation?

[Josh Clark]

But, I mean, so it definitely has to be constantly replaced because they had to build this reservoir.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

To hold the water that was always trickling In. But yeah, it makes sense. Why? Why wouldn't it overflow once in a while? I don't know that.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Shouldn't have asked.

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. You ruined the story.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

But gamers might recognize the catacombs from Assassin's Creed Unity.

[Josh Clark]

Pretty cool. I was looking at screenshots of that. It's pretty neat. Did you play that one?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. No, I didn't play that one. Do you play any of them Assassin's Creeds? No.

[Josh Clark]

Do you have something to use them or.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

No, I just, you know, my gaming is limited.

[Josh Clark]

I see. What's your latest game?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I'm playing a horror game right now called Alan Wake 2. It's the second Alan Wake and I'd never played a horror game before and it is pretty scary, so.

[Josh Clark]

It's genuinely scary.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

That's awesome.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, like, when you're playing this game, they look so good now and they're so realistic. So you're creeping around with a flashlight in these rooms and you hear noises and see things and it's like. It's super creepy.

[Josh Clark]

Are they like jump scares or do they just create, like a sense of ongoing dread?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Both.

[Josh Clark]

Wow, that's masterful.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Definitely ongoing dread. And then when the jump scare happens, when a bad person comes out, it's just. Yeah, it's. It scares big. Grown boy Chucky.

[Josh Clark]

Fantastic.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Alan Wake to everybody.

[Josh Clark]

Like Alan Wake, like somebody's name?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

The second or the sequel?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

The sequel.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

It would be Alan Wake Jr, I think. Probably.

[Josh Clark]

I guess so.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Don't call me Junior.

[Josh Clark]

Henry Ford II was not a junior.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, because who wants to be called Junior?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. I'd go with JR If I was a junior.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, totally.

[Josh Clark]

Call me JR what does it stand for? Stands for Junior.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Here's one cool thing. And this guy might be worth a podcast on his own, but there was a photographer, he went by the name Nadar, I guess. N A D, A R. And this is in the 1860s. His real name is Felix, I guess. How would you pronounce that last name?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, Tournachon.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Tournachon. He was a very accomplished dude, sort of the pioneer of the medium. This is early photography. And the guy in Paris, photography wise, at the time, but he invented a battery operated light, basically, and is one of the first people ever in the history of photography to use artificial light to take a picture. And over the course of three months, starting in 1861, he went down into the catacombs with 18 minutes per exposure. Took a lot of pictures of the catacombs. And they are super cool and creepy pictures from 1861.

[Josh Clark]

They are creepy. What's cool is because of that 18 minute exposure time, any of the photographs of workers working in the catacombs are actually dummies as stand ins.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, that makes sense.

[Josh Clark]

It makes it even a little creepier too, if you ask me.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And those head bones weren't moving, so they're fine.

[Josh Clark]

I have one more thing for you about dummies in underground places. There's a awesome. One of the great. I'm sure I've talked about it before. One of the greatest tourist attractions I've ever been to in my life was in Budapest. There's something called the Hospital in the Rock. And I think it was Maybe World War II, maybe Cold War, but it was a hospital they dug out of a cave system on a, like a stone hill in Budapest.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, wow.

[Josh Clark]

And it's a hospital. It's got like that white creepy subway tile. Like there's gurneys everywhere still. And it was like just this emergency hospital in case the town ever got bombed or whatever. And they have dummies everywhere, mannequins and that just. Just chef's kisses it for me. Like it makes it so scary. Even though they're not trying to make it scary. Yeah, it just really is. I think if you have dummies in your tourist attraction, you've just taken it to another level. Like put dummies in your tourist. Don't just leave it for people who use their dumb imaginations. Like give them some dummies dressed up and it'll really make it. You'll be rolling in the dough after that, I think.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Well, at the very least it's gonna up the creep factor. Cause that just dead eyed expression of a dummy is pretty great.

[Josh Clark]

But if you ever go to Budapest, you have to go to the Hospital in the Rock. It's amazing.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I'm gonna have to ask Emily. You know, she took a solo trip there a couple years ago. I need to see if she went there.

[Josh Clark]

I think I asked you if she did or not. And I don't know if she did.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

But probably not because she would have. I feel like I would have remembered her telling.

[Josh Clark]

It definitely. Seems like it would have been up her alley though, for sure.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. She was like, were there paintings there then? I didn't go.

[Josh Clark]

The dummies were painted, their faces were.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

That's true. What about crime? There's been a lot of crime there over the years. Because like you said, that's a good place to pop underground. And Then pop up into somebody's, like, expensive wine cellar or something.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, apparently in 2017, some thieves stole over quarter of a million dollars worth of wine that was cooling in a cave, I guess belonged to some winery. Not cool.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

People have been stealing bones down there since. There have been bones down there. Highly illegal.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, you don't want to do that. I mean, not just for the illegality. That's really disrespectful.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I think that a lot of them back in the day were to sell to sort of like cadavers, sell to medical students. Like, hey, here's a head bone for however many francs.

[Josh Clark]

Right? Shekels.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

What about ghosts, Chuck?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, of course there's gonna be ghosts down there. There's a couple of more well known than others. I think the most well known is a guy named Philibert Aspert.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, you can put a little emphasis on the T at the end there.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Espert?

[Josh Clark]

I think. So maybe that's a little too much, but somewhere in between those two.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I know I'm wrong, but when it comes to French, I just want to drop the last letter of everything.

[Josh Clark]

Well, they do that a lot. That's how they get you.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Exactly. Anyway, he worked at a military hospital in the late 18th century, and apparently in 1793, got lost in the catacombs with his own lone candle and never found his way out. And just like. Like I said, the convenient thing about dying down there is you just stay there. And apparently if you bring a candle there, you hear his voice.

[Josh Clark]

Just before the candle goes out, he says, welcome in. Bienvenue.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Were you creeped out down there, or was it just like, oh, this is a cool thing.

[Josh Clark]

It was not at all creepy. It's not presented to be creepy either. It's just. It is what it is.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Right? Bunch of bones.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I was not at all creeped out.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I gotta go check it out next time. Did you look up that video, by the way? The one that's highly likely faked?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I wasn't moved by it at all. Were you?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

No. There's this videotape that I think it was, like, 2017 that circulated that was like. It was like a Blair Witch thing. Is it real? Is it not? It was a guy walking through the catacombs and apparently gets lost and starts to freak out and run and hear sounds. And then the last shot you see is, like, the camera falling to the ground into, like, a puddle. And some people say it's real, some people say it's not. I don't know, it feels like it's probably faked, but I wasn't like, oh my God. It was kind of not that interesting.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, agreed. It was like a dull two sentence horror story.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, agreed.

[Josh Clark]

You got anything else about the catacombs?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Nope. It's on the list.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. You should go. You'll enjoy it. And don't forget the hospital and the rock too.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Right?

[Josh Clark]

Since Chuck said right, of course that means it's time for a listener. Mayo.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Here'S a correction to our Gong show episode. Hey, guys, there was one big error in this.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I know what this is. Is it an omission?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

No, no. Something we got wrong. What was our omission?

[Josh Clark]

Gene. Gene the Dancing Machine.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Can you believe we didn't mention Gene Gene the Dancing Machine in the entire episode?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

I thought we had, but apparently we didn't. But yeah, big shout out to Gene Gene, a legend of that show.

[Josh Clark]

I think both of us thought that we had because Livia clearly included him in the article as mentioned. I think we just passed over him and didn't. Didn't talk about him. It's just sad.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, no disrespect intended. We both loved Gene Gene. How do you not exactly. So this was an error though. Chuck Barris guys, did not invent syndication. It has been around in television forever with some notable 1950s shows such as Sea Hunt and Life with Elizabeth. Nor was the Parent Game the first syndicated game show or even Chuck's first syndicated show. First syndicated game shows came in 1965. Everything's relative and PDQ and Chuck Barris first foray in 1969. The game game. Initially that was to give local stations some color options since old sitcoms wouldn't be in color. But syndication exploded in 1972 because the FCC gave the 7:30 time slot back to the local stations. And for those stations, it was cheaper to buy a game show than make a local than to make local content. I know this guys, because I'm a bit of a semi pro TV historian.

[Josh Clark]

Oh yeah?

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. With an emphasis on game shows in particular. So I feel a duty when something is broadly misstated as that was. I have to try and correct the record. I had hoped you use Gong this book as one of your sources. As it was written by a real life TV historian named Adam Nedeff, who I've done some research for in the past. I hope you're enjoying the snow today. So this came a little while ago, but that is from Mike Berger in Livonia, Michigan. And Mike, I'm gonna hang on to your email and we might hit you up if we ever need any insight on TV history.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, thanks a lot, Mike. I mean, criticism from Caesar. That's pretty awesome.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Totally.

[Josh Clark]

Well, if you want to be like Mike and just completely devastate us in something we said and just show how utterly wrong we were, we love to hear that stuff. Especially if you're an historian, semi pro or otherwise. You can send us an email to stuffpodcasteartradio.com.

[Osvaldo Loschen]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff, we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture, and everywhere in between. Join us Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A.J. Jaco]

Dressing. Dressing.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, French dressing.

[A.J. Jaco]

Exactly.

[Josh Clark]

That's good.

[A.J. Jaco]

I'm A.J. jaco, and my current obsession is puzzles, and that has given birth to my podcast, the Puzzler.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

Something about Mary Poppins?

[A.J. Jaco]

Exactly.

[Charles W. Chuck Bryant]

This is fun.

[A.J. Jaco]

You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.