The Group of Seven

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stuff You Should Know – "The Group of Seven"

Episode Information:

• Title: The Group of Seven
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Release Date: May 27, 2025

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Introduction to the Group of Seven

[01:10] Jerry:
The episode begins with Jerry introducing the topic: the Group of Seven, described as Canada's most famous art school. Unlike traditional schools, this was a collective of painters who worked and influenced each other to shape Canada’s artistic identity.

[01:26] Chuck:
Chuck humorously compares the Group of Seven to a "school of fish," emphasizing their collaborative nature but with paintbrushes instead of fins.

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Formation and Early Influences

[02:02] Chuck:
He notes that while he hadn’t recognized the members by name, he had seen their artwork in museums. Jerry admits he initially wasn’t a fan of the 1920s-30s aesthetic but grew to appreciate the Group’s landscapes after deeper research.

[03:11] Jerry:
Jerry explains that the Group of Seven primarily focused on painting Canada's northern woodlands, somewhat neglecting the country’s coastlines and central prairies. This specific focus helped cement their unique style.

[04:35] Chuck:
The hosts discuss the Group's effort to forge a distinct Canadian identity, moving away from British influences. They mention the Group's formal formation in 1920 but highlight that many members were already acquainted through the 1910s.

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Key Members and Their Contributions

[06:45] Jerry:
Jerry introduces Jeh McDonald as a pivotal figure, the oldest member who acted as a father figure. McDonald’s dedication to painting the wilderness was crucial, despite his frail health limiting his participation in excursions.

[08:18] Chuck:
Chuck references McDonald’s painting "Mist Fantasy," which notably appears in Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining, adding a pop culture connection to the discussion.

[09:09] Chuck:
Tom Thompson is introduced as a pre-group member who significantly influenced the Group by introducing them to the Canadian wilderness. Despite his untimely death at 39, Thompson left behind a substantial body of work that continues to impact Canadian art.

[11:45] Jerry:
Laurier Harris, another key member, is highlighted as possibly Canada’s first abstract painter. Harris's work, particularly "Mountain Forms," has fetched high prices at auctions and played a role in transitioning Canadian art towards modernism.

[17:09] Chuck:
Julian Harris’s influence is further discussed, noting his free-spirited nature and support for spiritualism, which intertwined with McDonald's transcendentalism, fostering an ethos of nature-inspired creativity within the Group.

[38:03] Chuck:
The summary covers Frederick Varley, another integral member who contributed significantly to war memorial art, reflecting the impact of World War I on the Group's activities and artistic direction.

[39:00] Jerry:
Frank Johnston is mentioned for his prolific output in watercolors and his contributions to the Group's early exhibitions.

[39:13] Chuck & Jerry:
Franklin Carmichael and Edwin Holgate are briefly touched upon, noting their unique styles and roles within the Group. Carmichael’s decorative sensibility and Holgate’s portraitist approach added diversity to the collective’s work.

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Artistic Techniques and Exhibitions

[17:10] Jerry:
The hosts delve into the Group’s artistic process—sketching in the wilderness and translating these sketches into finished canvases. Tom Thompson’s adeptness at capturing transient light and atmosphere is particularly emphasized.

[26:23] Chuck:
Chuck praises the Group members' use of impasto technique, likening it to Van Gogh’s style, which adds texture and depth to their landscapes.

[34:25] Chuck:
The first official exhibition at the Art Gallery of Toronto in 1920 is discussed, noting initial critical reception and the subsequent rise in popularity. A notable quote from a critic describes some paintings as "the contents of a drunkard's stomach," highlighting the stark departure from traditional art.

[35:04] Jerry:
A.Y. Jackson’s personal struggles and eventual rise to prominence are covered, including his formal training in Europe and contributions during World War I.

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Challenges and Evolution

[29:07] Chuck:
The episode touches on Tom Thompson’s mysterious death, exploring various theories, including accidental drowning and possible foul play. This event significantly impacted the Group, reinforcing their dedication to outdoor painting.

[32:39] Jerry:
Details about the Group’s innovative traveling studio—a refurbished boxcar outfitted with essential amenities—are shared. This mobile studio allowed the artists to paint in diverse and rugged locations like Algonquin Provincial Park.

[34:51] Jerry:
The expansion of the Group and the inclusion of other artists such as A.J. Casson and Edwin Holgate is discussed. The addition of Lemoyne Fitzgerald in 1932 is noted, although the Group disbanded shortly after in 1933 due to internal and external pressures.

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Legacy and Impact

[44:30] Chuck:
The Group’s transition into the Canadian Group of Painters, expanding from 28 to 61 artists, is highlighted. This evolution included greater diversity, incorporating women and indigenous artists, though initial selections for silkscreen reproductions in the 1940s remained predominantly male and focused on northern landscapes.

[48:48] Jerry:
Arthur Lismer’s role in selecting artworks for silkscreen reproductions during World War II is emphasized, cementing the Group’s status in Canadian art. However, critiques are noted regarding the lack of representation for women and indigenous artists.

[50:10] Chuck:
The episode concludes by encouraging listeners to explore more about the Group of Seven through resources like thegroupof7ca and by appreciating the enduring impact of their bold, vibrant landscapes on Canada’s national identity.

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Notable Quotes

• Jerry on National Identity:
  "The Group of Seven... started painting Canada's wilderness at a time when Canada was looking to develop its national identity." [04:35]

• Chuck on Artistic Technique:
  "I just really love the impasto technique... it's like Van Gogh's style with the brushstrokes." [26:23]

• Jerry on Exhibition Reception:
  "One describes some of the paintings as looking like the contents of a drunkard's stomach." [34:25]

• Chuck on Legacy:
  "The Group of Seven was disproportionately represented in Canada's National Gallery, making them synonymous with Canadian art." [48:48]

---

Conclusion

The episode "The Group of Seven" provides an in-depth exploration of one of Canada's most influential art collectives. Through engaging conversations between Chuck Bryant and Jerry, the podcast delves into the Group’s formation, key members, artistic techniques, challenges, and enduring legacy. Highlighting their role in shaping Canada’s national identity through bold and vibrant landscapes, the hosts offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of why the Group of Seven remains a cornerstone of Canadian art history.

For More Information:
Listeners are encouraged to visit thegroupof7ca.com for detailed biographies and collections of the Group's artwork.

Transcript

[Chuck Bryant]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Josh Clark]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And Jerry's here too, believe it or not. And this is stuff you should know. The Artsy edition.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the O. Canada or the oh, Canada edition?

[Jerry]

I don't know. I think it's a. Well, let me ask you this. Had you heard of any of the members of the Group of Seven? We should probably just say Group of Seven is Canada's most famous art school and not school like you go and sit in a classroom and learn, but like a group of painters who work together, influence one another, support one another. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like a school of fish. Except they paint.

[Jerry]

Right. School of fish with paintbrushes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

So like, like this is. These guys were working in the teens, 19 teens, the 1920s. And they're still like the foundation of Canada's art. Right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. To answer you, I don't think I had at least as far as name recognition, but I feel like I have seen some of these works of art before in my many museum visits.

[Jerry]

I didn't recognize any of them. But I have to say at first I'm not a big fan of like 1920s, 30s in particular aesthetic. There's a lot of brown and just dark stuff. But I actually, just from researching this and looking at more and more of their paintings, I actually did become a fan of that school. But a couple of them in particular.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I really like this stuff. It's not the kind of thing that personally I would hang in my house because that's just not my house aesthetic that we're cultivating. But I really enjoy these landscapes of the northern realm of Canada, which is where, as you'll see shortly, they mainly concentrated on the sort of woodlands north of the major cities and to some criticism, kind of ignoring the beautiful coastlines of Canada.

[Jerry]

Yeah. And even the central prairies, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So it was a pretty specific thing. Seven, sometimes six, sometimes eight, sometimes 10. Oh, as many as 10.

[Jerry]

I think there was 10 overall.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. That kind of came and went. Some passed on. Some were fringe members that they were like, you're really one of us, but maybe not an official group of seven because you're a woman. Yeah, in her case, for sure. But yeah. So let's dig into this.

[Jerry]

Okay. So we said that the group of seven kind of formed the foundation of Canada's artistic identity. And there's a number of reasons why, like, really solid reasons why that go well beyond these. These guys artistic abilities, which makes the whole thing that much more interesting, if you ask me. But one of the reasons why is because they came together and started painting Canada's wilderness in particular, at a time when Canada was looking to develop its national identity. Because it wasn't until 1867 that Canada formed the Dominion of Canada, which, with the Province of Canada, which is now Ontario and Quebec, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. And then I think five years later, they brought BC into the mix. But that's what Rush sings about when they sing about marching to Bastille Day aboard the Thailand Express.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, totally. And that's, you know, they were trying, like you said, to form a national identity. Sort of de Angleize. Yeah, it's like something you do in a kitchen, actually.

[Jerry]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

De Angleize. And, you know, in other words, shake off a bit of that Britishness that lingered on both, you know, politically, economically, and as we'll see here, artistically. Their formal formation started in 1920, but as you said, they were pretty well acquainted with each other in the 1910s and 19 teens. Most of them were living in and around Toronto, Canada. Toronto, Canada. Don't I get bagged on for saying that?

[Jerry]

Yeah. Like Atlanta, usa.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's right. We're doing our best still. We love Canada and they love us, so they forgive us of these indiscretions.

[Jerry]

Most of them love us, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Some of them don't. But, you know, there's people everywhere that don't like us.

[Jerry]

I don't agree with that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Where Are some places where everybody likes us?

[Jerry]

Germany.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Germans do tend to like us. Huh?

[Jerry]

Australia. I don't think there's a single Australian that doesn't like us.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I think you're right. And there were a couple of key sort of employment places and institutions that kind of helped foster this cohesiveness. One was a design firm called the Grip, because most of these, if not all of them, at some point worked for the Grip as commercial designers. And they had a manager there named Albert Robson that really. Or Robeson maybe, who helped sort of foster their outside art. Not outsider art, different thing, but just saying, like, hey, we love your design work and you should also do this other stuff because all boats will rise. And then a place called the Arts and Letters Club, which was a private club, a social club for men and for artists in particular. So they would get together with other Canadian musicians and writers and actors there. They had patrons there that they could get a little juice to help support themselves. And those two places were sort of the nuclei of which they spun around.

[Jerry]

Yeah. And there was actually a person who you could kind of point to as the nuclei of the group, in part because he was the oldest of them. Apparently he was a father figure to some of the younger ones, but his name was Jeh McDonald. He was originally born in the UK and he moved to Ontario when he was a teenager. And he was the first one to work at the Grip all the way back in 1895. And by the time most of the other members of the Group of Seven got their jobs at the Grip, he was already head designer. One of the things that kind of differentiated him and made it not surprising but noteworthy and remarkable that he was kind of the center or the head of the Group of Seven is that part of being a member of the Group of Seven was getting out there in nature in rugged country that was way far away from the cities. And really, you know, like most of the people in Canada in. In the towns did not go north at that point. So it was a pretty kind of rebellious thing to do. And J.H. mcDonald was always kind of frail. He was prone to. To falling ill very easily. So he didn't make it on all of these excursions. And yet he was doing as good a work as any of them, if not better, in my opinion, in some cases.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, his stuff is pretty great. He was a transcendentalist, though. He was. He just got sick a lot. And as. As we'll see, he died fairly young. And he. He kept trying to tell everyone, like, I really Love this stuff. I'm not an indoor kid. I promise. I just can't go bushwhacking this weekend.

[Jerry]

We have one more thing about him too. I don't know if you saw this or not, but he had a painting called Mist Fantasy that appears in the Shining in the background.

[Chuck Bryant]

Which scene do you know? Is it the famous office interview scene?

[Jerry]

It's in the fireplace room.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, okay.

[Jerry]

And then I think it's also. I think it also moves and is in, like, the Main lobby where Mr. Ullman is giving Jack, like the beginning of the tour.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So one of those from that documentary that. That probably means something very significant. That painting's moving around.

[Jerry]

That's where I learned about it from iscream237 and it's eyescream237.com which, man, if you want to deep dive into just Mist Fantasy and what it means, just start there. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. There was another guy named. And these are. We're going to kind of jump around as far as introducing these people. Or I guess it's not jumping around because it's fairly chronological.

[Jerry]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

But these are sort of the pre dudes before it was official. McDonald was one. It was a guy named Tom Thompson. He passed away before the group was officially founded in 1917. It was founded in 1920, like I said. So he was never an official member, but he was a really influential guy in that he was a. One of just a few native Canadians. He was born. I believe he was born in Ontario in rural Ontario. Big time outdoorsman. Also worked at the grip in 1908. I don't think I mentioned. I mentioned they were a design firm, but they mainly worked on design for department stores, so I guess early Canadian department stores. And it was at the firm where he met MacDonald and they were like, hey, we should like, get together and start going out in the woods and sketching and painting and.

[Jerry]

Yeah. So apparently Tom Thompson, so he's one of Canada's most famous artists by far. He must have been inherently likable because I read that he hung around the Arts and Letters Club even though he wasn't a member. They didn't kick him out. All of the members who met him of the Group of Seven took him under their wing because he was a really talented artist but didn't have any formal training. So he introduced the Group of Seven to the wilderness. That became like the basis of all of their paintings and their whole school. And they taught him in turn, formal techniques.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[Jerry]

Yeah. And his. He actually as we'll see, he died young at 39 and his career was very short. It was five years. But in that five years he painted 50 canvases and left behind 400 sketches. And he got really good. And sadly he died just as he was really starting to get going.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. That was definitely a. A sad thing because he was just getting cooking, I feel like.

[Jerry]

Yeah, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

There's a guy named Lauren Harris. L A W R E N He may be the sec. I mean, I don't want to judge how famous they are, but he seems to be pretty famous. He notably, I think, has sold at auction the most valuable painting ever from a Canadian artist at 11 million bucks. It was called Mountain Forms. And I like the painting. It looks quite a bit different, I think, than a lot of this other stuff as far as steering away from like a Van Gogh, like post impressionistic look.

[Jerry]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

It looks a little more graphic design y but it's super cool. But, you know, 11 million bucks. I know Steve Martin's a big fan.

[Jerry]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

Because he went to some show of his I saw on YouTube and was kind of going on about his love for Harris.

[Jerry]

Yeah, he mounted a touring exhibition back in 2015. Like he's a big Harris fan and one of the other. And Harris is a really good example of this. They. A lot of people consider Lauren Harris the first abstract painter in Canada. And you can kind of make a pretty good example that the. The group of seven represents the transition from traditional painting to modern painting. They're the kind of portal that it goes through in Canada. And it's really neat to see their early work before they all kind of came together. And then to see starting about 19, 19, 19 20, all of them start to kind of resemble one another, even though it's very distinct and different. Yeah, you can see that kind of through line that really did make them like a cohesive school.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of the point. I don't even think that that stuff is necessarily done on purpose. I think similar sensibilities, hanging out with each other, ripping each other off. They're ripping each other off, going to the same places as we'll see they went on these excursions and this guy, he was one of the more adventurous ones. He went as far as the Arctic to paint in the colder climes. Including that $11 million work is a snow capped mountain. But he was a rich kid. Even though he was born in Ontario, he was heir to a British fortune from the Massey Harris Company that made agricultural Equipment.

[Jerry]

I think they're still around.

[Chuck Bryant]

He didn't have to, you know, there's no other way to say it. He didn't really have to work to support himself as an artist. So he was very free to do his thing.

[Jerry]

Yeah. And he was a very dedicated artist, too. So he wasn't just like, bleh, I don't feel like doing anything today. He was also heavy into spiritualism, which was pretty predominant at the time. We did a whole episode on that. And so if you put together McDonald's transcendentalism, Tom Thompson's exposure of everybody to the woods, Canadian forests, and then Lauren Harris's non religious spiritualism, those kind of form. Like the ethos. Ethos. I can never remember which one it is. I remember one time I said ethos, and we were on a zoom call with Scott Aukerman, and he just kind of said almost to himself, like, wow, you got both vowels wrong.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did he really?

[Jerry]

Yeah, he did. No way.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's the kind of thing that sticks.

[Jerry]

With you for sure. I'll never forget it, but I still don't remember which way to say it.

[Chuck Bryant]

I thought it was always ethos. So according to Scott Aukerman, it would be ethos.

[Jerry]

Ethos.

[Chuck Bryant]

Ethos.

[Jerry]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

But if you said ethos, you didn't get both wrong.

[Jerry]

Yeah. So I said no, ethos I think is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, you said ethos.

[Jerry]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Jerry]

I think that was it. Regardless, I still don't say it right, I'm sure. And if I do, it's accidental.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

People know what I'm saying.

[Chuck Bryant]

Exactly.

[Jerry]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

You're Josh Clark. We're known for mispronouncing.

[Jerry]

Yeah, we really are.

[Chuck Bryant]

So before they got together as a group again, which was 1920, they took a pretty formidable trip in May of 1912 when Thompson and another staff member at the Grip named Harry B. Jackson took this train from Toronto to the Algonquin Provincial park, or to Algonquin Provincial Park. There's no D there. And they just started sketching again. Like you said at the time, you know, you had to be pretty adventurous to start venturing into those wild climbs. It was rough and rugged territory. So certainly there probably were not a lot of artists doing that. I mean, there were. There have always been Canadian men and women who were like, yeah, I'm very comfortable out there, and it doesn't scare me. But I think artists to be going out there was a pretty radical thing.

[Jerry]

Yeah, for sure. And, yeah, these guys are. They were rebels in their time. You just got to kind of remember that even though retrospectively now, you're like, what? What's the big deal? But yeah, at the time, the. This is all very new. It was very big. And also, as we'll see, they were basically making, like, in your face style of art. That just was not the taste of Canada at the time.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, they spent a lot of time in that park. And specifically Thompson, at a certain point, he was spending, you know, eight months out of the year there. He left in the winter finally, because it was pretty rough. But he really, really loved Algonquin Provincial Park. And I think they even, like the media initially started calling them the Algonquin School before they settled on a name. And some really beautiful paintings came out of that pre 1920 formation.

[Jerry]

Yeah, the Jack Pine is a very, very famous painting in Canada. That was by Tom Thompson, I think, from 1916. It's basically when he started it. But you can really clearly see the art nouveau influence that he developed as a commercial graphic designer.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

Another one is A.Y. jackson's the Red Maple. I like Ay Jackson's work, but I don't like the Red Maple, but it's about equally famous as the Jack Pine in Canada.

[Chuck Bryant]

I like that one too. Again, not for my house, but I would dive into it in a museum with gusto.

[Jerry]

They would not like that. The security guards would be on you like white on rice.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, sometimes I just want to touch those.

[Jerry]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Paintings.

[Jerry]

You can't do it. It's like the call of the void.

[Chuck Bryant]

It is a call of the void. Yeah. I could either touch the painting in the Guggenheim or pull the gun out of the cops holster. It was security at the Guggenheim.

[Jerry]

So one of the things that these guys did too, that was pretty smart, is they got out there in the wilderness. But it's not like they set up their easels and were just sitting there painting. The final paintings that they showed to the public, they would do kind of sketches. Tom Thompson was apparently very good and prolific at it. I saw that he captured transient moments of light and atmosphere by making these sketches out in the actual, like, seeing the actual thing and then just kind of bringing it back and translating that into the actual finished canvas. And all of them basically did that. But something about Tom Thompson's eye being translated to color and texture in his paintings was really. It was really something.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I agree. One of my favorite things now, and I've noticed this because. Did I tell you, Emily started painting?

[Jerry]

No. How awesome. What medium?

[Chuck Bryant]

Paint on canvas. Oil mainly.

[Jerry]

Oh, wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

She dabbled in watercolor a little bit. But she's mainly painting oil on canvas. And, like, she's good. And it's. It's sort of, like, surprising and annoying. It's like, oh, okay, so you can actually paint. That's. That's super cool. Yeah, but it's. She started, you know, now they make these little travel kits that. Or you can do your own in, like, an Altoid tin of, you know, very small little paint sets that can, like, fit inside of a notebook. And she takes them along, and we'll just paint little things or sketch little things in nature. Cause that's mainly what she's painting. And we went on this last trip when we went to New York to see Glengarry Glen Ross, which was awesome, by the way. I bet we went to the New York Botanical Gardens for the first time in the Bronx. We had been to Brooklands, and I noticed there were artists just everywhere, sitting on benches, sketching and painting stuff around them. And it's just such a lovely thing to witness. Cause it's just so quiet and peaceful. And they're creating art inside of, you know, the natural wonder of nature's art. And I just. I just love it.

[Jerry]

Yeah, I envy that. I admire it, too. I've always wanted to be able to at least draw to. I mean, since I was a kid, I was friends with, like, artists that could draw. Like. Like, it was. They were just natural talents at it. And I would just try, try, try and take classes. And I just couldn't do it.

[Chuck Bryant]

I couldn't either. My whole family. My father wasn't. But my mother is an artist and an art major and a painter. My brother could always draw, I believe. My sister and I can't draw a stick figure.

[Jerry]

That's all right. Yeah. I was going to say anybody who's seen my drawing of a horse on Instagram knows that I can.

[Chuck Bryant]

That was better than what I could do, I think.

[Jerry]

Oh, also, by the way, if Emily's making art kits out of Altoid tins, that makes her a tinovator, Chuck.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, she's not doing that. She bought a kit, but from a tinovator. I will not be a tinovator because of that episode. Can we just get that one off? Can we scrub that?

[Jerry]

I'm sure we can. Should we also do Scuba Cat?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, those are two that really should go away.

[Jerry]

So. Yeah, we'll look into that. We'll have to ask Jerry.

[Chuck Bryant]

Should we take a break, by the way?

[Jerry]

Oh, yeah, I guess we should. We kind of got away from ourselves huh?

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, let's take a break. We're going to ask Jerry if we can scrub a couple of episodes. That means we're going to have to do two more at the end of our career. Of course, that's fine because we don't want to shortchange ourselves. So we'll debate all that and then we'll be back to talk more about the group of seven.

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[Jerry]

Let's talk about moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity. Doesn't sound familiar. Think about how you've been sleeping late. If you've had nights where you've been told you snore loudly or choke or gasp for air and then wake up feeling tired, it may be due to OSA.

[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

Don't sleep on the symptoms.

[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

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[Chuck Bryant]

Can you do anything?

[Jerry]

Yeah. But when they were trained in Europe, this is the time of the Impressionists. They were trained in traditional conservative landscapes, and they brought all that back. But they found to their dismay that they were having a really hard time translating the European techniques that they had learned to the Canadian wilderness. It just wasn't working quite right. And there was a really big important turning point that happened in 1912 when Lauren Harris and J.E.H. macDonald traveled to Buffalo, New York to see an art exhibition of Scandinavian artists. And they were just blown away. It completely freed them to create the art that went on to become, you know, synonymous with them. And I saw that, I think MacDonald said that these were artists that were not trying to express themselves so much as they were trying to express something that took hold of themselves.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, wow.

[Jerry]

Yeah. So these guys were like, overwhelmed with nature and they were painting the feeling that nature brought out in them. And that's what the group of seven started doing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's cool. I know. Van Gogh is another inspiration in particular from the European school. And that a technique that I really love, the impasto technique, where you just goop that paint on there so you see the brushstrokes. And in the case of some of these artists in Van Gogh and of course many others, it's, you know, when you get up close to these Paintings don't touch, but you can lean in and get a really good look at just how caked on it is in some places. I just, I really, really love that.

[Jerry]

Yeah. And if you're really sly, you can kind of touch it with the tip of your nose and just be like, oops, I got too close.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, sorry.

[Jerry]

Yeah, that Jack Pine. Thompson's Jack Pine. If you look at the sky or the lake, you can really see his use of that. It's really, it's. It's a really cool painting. I'm just gonna say it again.

[Chuck Bryant]

Agreed. Another. You know something? I've learned a lot more having known artists in my adulthood is that a big part of doing your art is just having a space to do it. Not everyone can just set up in their dining room or whatever. And so studio space is cherished and sometimes hard to come by, sometimes too expensive. And so patrons are very important in that regards. And there was a guy named Dr. James McCallum who built a building along with Harris, I think, funded by James McCallum. It was called the Studio Building in the Rosedale neighborhood of Toronto. And that was a real sort of cohesion, cohesive thing. Cohesion unit. Is that a thing?

[Jerry]

Yeah, like a rank leader.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it was like two units of cohesion when they built that building for.

[Jerry]

Sure, which is not there anymore, unfortunately. I think they built a high rise apartment over it, but they tore it down first and then built the high rise apartment. But during the time, I think well into the 50s, this was still a thriving artist studio and it was cheap apartments as well. I saw that Tom Thompson was so broke that he couldn't even afford the subsidized rent for the artist's apartment at the. At the studio. So again, he was so likable, James McCallum built him a shed out back and charged him a dollar a month for it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, but they would, you know, Canadians are known for being nice, but they would bag on him. They'd say, man, you're so broke, you can't pay attention.

[Jerry]

That's a good one.

[Chuck Bryant]

And then they all started coming up with you're so broke joke.

[Jerry]

How have I made it almost 49 years without having heard that one?

[Chuck Bryant]

Have you not heard that one? No, that's the only broke one I know. But yeah, I introduced Ruby to that whole. Those kind of jokes. It burns. Your mama jokes and stuff. That playground burns. It's pretty fun, for sure. Your mama's so old, she owes Jesus a nickel.

[Jerry]

Wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did you ever hear that one?

[Jerry]

No. Wow. I really wasn't paying attention on the playground, apparently.

[Chuck Bryant]

I couldn't make these up, of course. I was just trying to copy the great artists of the playground for sure.

[Jerry]

But, I mean, I still haven't heard them. And you say them just beautifully.

[Chuck Bryant]

I appreciate it. I got a lot more. I'll trot them out here and there moving forward.

[Jerry]

Okay, good, good. So we talked about Tom Thompson dying, and this is a really big deal, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

It was. Another big deal was World War I. Oh, yeah. That came along and, you know, was a big disruption because a lot of it certainly delayed the formation, the official formation of the group right there in the late 19 teens. But they. A lot of them actually served in the war in some capacity. A lot of them worked for the Canadian War Memorials Fund, and they were producing art about the war, some of which was super cool. I don't know if we should talk about it now or later, but the. Well, maybe let's hang on to that.

[Jerry]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

The Dazzle camouflage. Yeah. Arthur Lismer stuff. Yeah, we'll hold on to that.

[Jerry]

It is cool. So, yeah. One of the things that I think also cemented Tom Thompson's reputation as one of Canada's most famous artists is that he died under what some people consider mysterious causes. Like, this guy was born in rural Ontario. He was an avid outdoorsman. He spent so much time up in the Canada. The Canadian forests, I guess around Algonquin or Algoma, that he would be a fishing guide. Sometimes he served as a park ranger. He just. He was just there, so he might as well do that extra stuff. And he went out one day in a canoe, and his canoe was found overturned later that day or the next day. And he was missing. His body was found, I think, eight days later. And he had, like, a bump and a bruise on the side of his face. And some people are like, well, yeah, he just was stood up in the canoe and, like, fell out and, like, hit his head and then drowned. And other people are like, you didn't know Tom Thompson then because, number one, he would never do something that stupid. And number two. See, number one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, it's hard to tell how fishy that might have been. It very well could have been an accident. But it's also very easy to say, like, an experienced outdoorsman like, that wouldn't have died that way. But it was officially declared an accidental drowning. Some people theorize that he may have killed himself if he wasn't murdered because he got his girlfriend pregnant. But I couldn't really see a lot of, like, Solid evidence other than just people surmising.

[Jerry]

Yeah, there was, like one or two people over the years who, like, wrote a book or something like that and kept the whole thing alive.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

But it was a really big deal to the group of seven. They hadn't even formed yet, and they lost one of their members already. And this was the guy who introduced them to the wild. He was inherently likable guy. They were really bummed out about it, but they still carried on, you know, I think at least in part out of tribute to Tom Thompson, but also because they had really come to appreciate what he introduced them to.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. That also led to another sort of, if not tragedy, like setback, when McDonald's was helping to build a memorial cairn at Canoe Lake, where he died and MacDonald collapsed because, you know, as we said, he was a pretty frail guy. May have had a stroke, but recovered within a few months. Well, enough at least that he was able to go on this painting trip. You mentioned Algoma in Ontario. They went there. Frank Johnston, who was. He would be another one of the OGs, as far as the group members go, and Dr. McCollum, who funded that studio. They all went along on this trip.

[Jerry]

Yeah. So they went on boxcar journeys.

[Chuck Bryant]

Because Lauren sounds so cool.

[Jerry]

Yeah. Lauren Harris was so rich, he went to one of the railroads and said, hey, give us a boxcar, will you? And they said, sure, Mr. Harris, whatever you want. So they took a boxcar and outfitted it, refurbished it with. To basically turn it into a traveling studio and artist quarters.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it sounds like super cool. I mean, it had a stove, it had furniture, and they could move it around to the different rail sightings and hang out and stay then. Had a little home base there with some, Some warm, Some warmth. Warmth to it.

[Jerry]

Sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

And the Wild river was painted there, which is one of McDonald's biggest, most popular paintings. And that was in 1919. And it is very gorgeous as well.

[Jerry]

It is. I don't remember that one. I had so many tabs open and looked at so much art that I couldn't remember that. But I, I, I don't think there was many paintings that I was like, that's a real dog.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right. Except for that one painting of the dog, the real one.

[Jerry]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

So by this time, 1919 is rolling around. They've been on boxcar journeys. They've lost Tom Thompson, They've gone out in the wild a few times. They've really kind of gotten into this new modernist interpretation of landscapes, specifically Canadian landscapes, to basically create this new art identity of Canada. It's like a nationalistic art movement. And they mounted their first exhibition from at least one or more of those boxcar journeys. And I think there was something like 200 canvases. And it did not go over all that well, actually.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, there were some critics who didn't love it. Uh, some people did like it. But that was just a key exhibition because was their first one as a group. And that was when. And this is in 1919. That's when within the group they were like, you know, we should officially like call ourselves a school and form an official. Like the Avengers. We need to get together and be an official group. Cause it'll probably just help our reputation, get us a little more press.

[Jerry]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

In February, March of 1920, they did. So Jackson was not there. He was on one of his sketching trips at the time. And he came home and said that he learned that it had been formed and that I was a member.

[Jerry]

Yeah, we haven't met Jackson yet. This is a different Jackson than the one that went on that first trip with Tom Thompson. This was a Jackson.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, we introduced him.

[Jerry]

Oh, we did. I didn't remember that because I almost.

[Chuck Bryant]

Made the joke that. Did they call him a. Yeah, a.

[Jerry]

But I didn't like the Fonz.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. AY Jackson, who actually he lived, I think, think the longest. Yeah, he lived all the way until 1974. Ripe old age. He was born in Montreal, had a single mom with six or five other siblings, total six. And as a result, he had to work a lot to support his family. But eventually he found his way to Europe, where he was one of the ones, like you said, that studied formally in Europe, which he did in France before he moved back to Ontario in 1913.

[Jerry]

Yeah. And thanks to Dr. James McCollum, he was able to move to Toronto because he was not very well off at the time. And McCollum said, How about this? I will buy all of your paintings that you produce in a year to keep you afloat, essentially. And that gave A.Y. jackson the ability to come to Toronto, start working.

[Chuck Bryant]

He painted 600 things.

[Jerry]

Right. And make a name for himself in time to be able to support himself through his art.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And he had that Montreal connection. So he sort of. Montreal artist would. He'd make connections with the group of seven again. You know, artists knowing each other and sharing ideas and just sensibilities, ethos, if you will, is a good thing. But he was one of the ones that went over with World War I to fight. He Was actually wounded there and also painted for Canadian War memorials.

[Jerry]

Yeah. Another guy who painted for Canadian war memorials that you mentioned earlier was Arthur Lismer.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

He was famous for painting warships that were returning to port that had dazzle camouflage on them, which essentially is like op art painted on warships.

[Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

I had never heard of this before, had you?

[Jerry]

No. Huh.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's super cool. It's a way for. It's not, you know, camouflage in the way that it's supposed to blend in with the sea around it. In fact, far from it. It doesn't do anything like that.

[Jerry]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Like you said, it looks like cool pop art, you know, painted on a warship, like, could this. It almost looks like some weird art installation and not a real thing that the Navy did. But the intention there, again, is not to, like conceal it, like it's not there, but to confuse and mislead about, like, the course heading or something up like that or like how fast they're going to or. Yeah, like I said, where they're headed. And apparently it worked pretty good.

[Jerry]

Yeah. They look like disjointed zebra stripes that they're in different chunks that don't line up with one another.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So that's on the actual ship. And he painted paintings of these ships and they're really cool looking. I love it.

[Jerry]

Yeah. And Arthur Lismer is one of those painters whose style seemingly changed overnight around 1920 and really falls into line with the rest of the groups. It's pretty cool.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I guess we'll go over the last three. Here we have Frederick Varley, who lived till 1969, so I think he lived the second longest. He was a schoolmate of Lismer's in England. And I think we did mention that they both studied in Antwerp, Belgium. And then he reconnected with Lismer after living in Yorkshire and getting married. And he was like. Lismer was like, come on over to Canada, man. And he did so in 1912, went to work at the Grip, like a lot of them. And also painted for the war memorials.

[Jerry]

Yeah. He was actually embedded in Europe with the Canadian military. So a lot of his paintings that he made during the war were like bombed out villages or like, I read that he. One of his paintings was a shelled cemetery to basically say, like, even the dead can't escape war. It's some harrowing stuff that he produced for sure. And I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

Who else do we have?

[Jerry]

He was very affected by the war, I should say.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

To answer your question, who else we have is my favorite by far. Of the group, Frankie Franklin Carmichael, you were saying you wouldn't hang any of these in your home? I would hang a Carmichael, basically any of them.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I agree, actually. And that's some of my favorite stuff too. And I might hang some of the other stuff. Maybe I was being too harsh.

[Jerry]

Hang it all. So he had kind of a more decorative sensibility. I saw it described as he used more colorful, softer colors. Like just go look up Franklin Carmichael art and you will just sit there and watch it all day.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. He did more watercolors than the rest of them, but did work in other mediums. And then rounding out we have Frank Johnston, born in Toronto, so another one of Canadian's sons. And he worked at the Grip as well. And he's, I think the only one that actually studied in the United States. He went there for a little while, studied there, did some work there, and then went back to Toronto in 1915. And he was known for his opaque watercolor techniques. So he was kind of, you know, watercolor's quicker. So he was pumping out paintings much quicker than the rest of these guys.

[Jerry]

Yeah, I saw he contributed 60 of the 200 canvases that were at that first show.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's amazing.

[Jerry]

He also. This is so artist. He was born Francis Hans Johnston and later on in life he compressed that to Franz.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, wow. Hans and Franz.

[Jerry]

Pretty cool. Yeah, exactly.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe we should take another break.

[Jerry]

Yes.

[Chuck Bryant]

And we'll be back with more art.

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[Jerry]

Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity, they may be happening to you without your knowing.

[Chuck Bryant]

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[Jerry]

Let's talk about a small thing that can make a big difference if you have diabetes, the Freestyle Libre 3 sensor. It's amazing how the sensor gives you real time glucose readings so you can see the impact of every meal and activity to make better choices. The Freestyle Libre 3 Plus sensor can help you live life with diabetes on your terms. This is progress. You can try the sensor at FreestyleLibre US terms and conditions apply for prescription only Safety info found@freestylelibre us.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so we've talked about 1920 and what happened over and over again. But finally on May 7th is when the official Unified School opened at the Art Gallery of Toronto with 120 paintings. And this is like definitely when critics kind of some of them poo pooed it. One describes some of the paintings as looking like the contents of a drunkard's stomach. And I think this was maybe more just because it was a departure from the traditional art. Yeah, they got popular pretty quickly. I think their second show in May of 21 drew about 2,500 people over just three weeks and change. So people got on board pretty quickly.

[Jerry]

Yeah, for sure. Again, because in part this is they were painting Canada's national identity.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right.

[Jerry]

One of the other things, I don't know if I've made that point yet.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't think a few more times it might get it home.

[Jerry]

One of the other things that was really big about this show was that the director of the National Gallery of all of Canada bought at least three of their works. His name was Eric Brown. And in addition to basically ensconcing them in Canada's National Gallery, saying like, these guys are legit. This is the real deal. He put them in other exhibitions that Canada put on around the world. And he would really play a big role later on during World War I and 2, as we'll see.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, and he, you know, he was a patron of the arts. He loved these guys. But he was also criticized at times later by just solely Being into these guys and like, hey, you're not championing the work of women as much as you should, or are indigenous artists. So, you know, he was criticized for that. That's all I'll say for sure.

[Jerry]

So the group is kind of, like, rolling by now. They're doing more journeys. They're meeting once in a while to basically set up exhib. Franz Johnston leaves, and they're like, well, God, we're the group of seven. We need to get a seventh. They bring in a guy named A.J. casson, who used to be Franklin Carmichael's assistant. They're like, okay, let's just break the trend and bring in an eighth member. So they brought in a guy named Edwin Holgate. He was brought in in 1929.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, he was a portraitist, which was a little different from the rest of them, for sure.

[Jerry]

He had also formed another group in Montreal called the Beaver Hall Group, which is a pretty good group name.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, great name.

[Jerry]

And then Lemoyne Fitzgerald, who you could call the Jinx. He was brought on in 1932. The group broke up in 1933. So the Jinx missed their last exhibition in 1931. And then he was there for their breakup the year after he was brought on board.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's too bad for Lemoine. But he got a brief taste, and then, you know, he lived until 1956. So he was still painting after that. We did mention a woman, Emily Carr, near the beginning as like, you know, this is a boys club. But she was never officially a group of seven because of that. But they did feature her works in some of their shows. One in 1927 in particular. And that's when they, you know, they kind of pulled her aside and they were like, hey, you know, you're really. You're one of us. Like, it might not be official, but you're definitely one of us.

[Jerry]

But don't tell anybody.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, exactly. Don't tell anyone. And she painted a lot of indigenous villages and stuff like that, and at one point was doing indigenous art, like hooked rugs and pottery and selling it to tourists. But she even way back then, was like, wait a minute. Maybe I'm appropriating this. They didn't use that word, I'm sure. But she stopped doing it. She was like, this is not a culture I'm a part of, so maybe I shouldn't be doing it and selling it.

[Jerry]

Yeah, that lady was ahead of even. Npr.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah. Or what's Canada's version of npr?

[Jerry]

Cbc.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, right, of course.

[Jerry]

So all good things must come to an end. And one of the things that I think you can give a nod to the Group of Seven about is they're like, hey, this thing's run its course. Let's just disband. So they actually disbanded. They had a formal disbanding, I think, again, in 1933. It was Lemoine's fault again. Part of it was that MacDonald had died in 1932. And again, he was kind of like the guy who was. Who. The original. The figurehead, I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

Papa Smurf.

[Jerry]

Yeah, that was part of it. They thought it had run its course, but they were also now starting to get real pushback. Not just them, but also the National Gallery and Eric Brown saying, like, you know, there's other. There's other artists in Canada. Can we kind of include them? There's other parts of Canada besides the Northern Boreal Forest.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Jerry]

And because of that, they actually stepped back. They disbanded the Group of Seven, and then they regrouped and expanded to the Canadian Group of Painters, which started out with 28 artists and eventually grew to 61 total over the years. And this one included women?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yes, they expanded it greatly at that point. One of the reasons that, you know, they're obviously famous because they were, you know, Canadian through and through and what they were doing and where they were living and some of them, where they were from, but they. In World War II, the Canadian government got involved to do this silkscreen program where they. Silk screen prints of this art, and they put them up in their buildings and their government buildings and then put them up for sale. And Eric Brown was behind. Behind that as well. And that. That really just cemented them, because all of a sudden, people were, like, buying this stuff and putting it on their own walls as prints.

[Jerry]

Yeah. They were in banks, they were in schools. Apparently, Arthur Lismer, one of the original Group of Seven, was in charge, in part, of selecting images. So, yeah, the Group of Seven was disproportionately represented in this. And that is one reason why they are so enmeshed in Canada's artistic psyche. Like, this is Canadian art. This is the foundation of it. That's a big part of it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Because you could get it at Spencer Gifts all of a sudden.

[Jerry]

Yes. And you could. You could also make an argument that they were selected for this cheap silkscreen reproduction because the colors, the bold colors, the shapes, the contours of the whole thing, it was ripe for reproduction through screen printing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. It looked good on a screen print. Emily Carr was Not chosen. In fact, no women were chosen. And I think no artists that painted the coastlines of Canada were chosen, and no work by indigenous artists as well, or work that depicted their community. So, again, some controversy surrounding that stuff. Obviously, that kind of thing today would be handled a lot differently. But this was again, back in the, you know, mid-1940s when they started the silk screening.

[Jerry]

Yeah. But it was interesting that they were still criticized for that kind of stuff. Even. Even back then, you know, people were aware of it for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, totally.

[Jerry]

But, yeah, if you want to waste some time. Well, wasted, I should say, go check out thegroupof7ca and they have bios and, like, a lot of selected art. Or just look up these artists and type in artist name works and just look at all the amazing stuff that comes up. It's. It's good stuff. I'm glad you. You found this one or picked it or it was suggested. I'm not sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think I had just heard of him, and Olivia helped us out. And it's. I love learning more and more about art here later in life.

[Jerry]

Me too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Chuck in my 50s.

[Jerry]

Well, since Chuck said he's in his 50s, of course that means he's just unlocked listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

Mid 50s. When are you 50?

[Jerry]

I will be 50 the July after next. And I don't care because 40s suck. Yeah, it's the worst decade so far, at least. But I've heard it just gets better after your 40s that the. Your life satisfaction dips in the 40s and starts to climb back up and peaks again in your 60s, and that. That is comparable to your younger years, the. The peak of happiness. So we have a lot to look forward to, man.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, just. Just get ready.

[Jerry]

Yeah. We're going to be podcasting the whole time.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. All right. This is a positive correction about Fentanyl, by the way. We got some props for just saying Fentanyl, not Fentanyl. All right, Josh. Noted. If you go to prison, you're expected to simply dry out and hopefully recover that way. That is not the case, guys. I teach in a correctional place facility in Indiana. I'm happy to report that our prisons give incarcerated individuals, or iis, the option to take Suboxone in a controlled environment at a certain time each day. The II and the program are sent to our medical department and given Suboxone in order to help with their treatment. This has helped those who struggle with addiction, but it's important to note that it can be addictive, leading to potential abuse as well. Suboxone compared with recovery programs has helped a lot of my students and I found I've been very fortunate to see some people turn their lives around through this. And we heard from a couple of other correctional workers from different states that do the same thing. So it sounds like it's sort of the norm.

[Jerry]

Yeah, that's heartening.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's great to hear. Additionally, guys, I appreciate that you cleared up some misconceptions about fentanyl. I can confirm that those ideas still impact law enforcement, as our officers are required to wear gloves during cell searches in order to prevent absorbing fentanyl through the skin. Thanks for providing years of knowledge in a relaxed and fun manner. Thanks for coming to Indianapolis. I was at the show and it was great.

[Jerry]

It was a good show.

[Chuck Bryant]

And that is from Samuel, Adult Basic Education Instructor.

[Jerry]

Thanks Samuel. You're out there doing God's work. Congratulations to you and thank you for it. And if you want to be like Samuel and gently correct us, we love that kind of thing, you can send it via email to Stuff podcastsheart radio.com.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

[Advertiser]

You listen to your favorite shows.

[Jerry]

For adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or osa, and obesity, refreshing sleep may be hard to come by and who likes to lag and drag through the day?

[Chuck Bryant]

OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation that could leave you feeling tired and fatigued.

[Jerry]

Loud snoring, choking or gasping for air during sleep could be signs of OSA. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more at don'tsleeponosa.com this information is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Provided by Lilly USA LLC.

[Advertiser]

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[Chuck Bryant]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.