The Phil Hartman Story

Summary

**Podcast Summary: "The Phil Hartman Story"
Stuff You Should Know
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Release Date: July 1, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "The Phil Hartman Story," hosts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve deep into the life, career, and tragic death of the beloved comedian and actor Phil Hartman. Through a comprehensive exploration of Phil's journey from his early years to his significant impact on comedy, the hosts provide listeners with an engaging and heartfelt tribute to a multifaceted talent.

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Early Life and Family Background

Phil Hartman was born in Brantford, Ontario, in 1948. As the fourth of eight children, he navigated the complexities typical of a middle child. With an athletic older brother, John, and a younger sister suffering from Angelman syndrome, Phil often played the role of the family clown to garner attention and carve out his unique identity.

Notable Quote:
Chuck Bryant at [03:01]: "Phil was a middle kid, number four of eight. And as often with a middle child... he became the family clown."

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Move to California and Early Interests

At around nine years old, Phil's family relocated to Southern California, a move that profoundly influenced his future. Embracing the Southern California lifestyle, Phil became an avid surfer and began exploring his passion for comedy during his teenage years. Inspired by comedians like Bob Newhart and Jonathan Winters, Phil honed his skills by memorizing comedy albums and performing bits for friends and family.

Notable Quote:
Josh Clark at [04:12]: "Phil was really into Southern California life. Apparently, he was a great surfer. By the time he was 13, this guy was just full of surprises."

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Entry into the Music and Art Scene

Phil's older brother John ventured into the music business, co-founding the management company Hartman and Goodman. Their company managed iconic acts such as Neil Young, America, and the Mamas & the Papas. Meanwhile, Phil dabbled in the art world, designing album covers for bands like Rockin' Foo and America, showcasing his creative versatility.

Notable Quote:
Chuck Bryant at [11:10]: "He did two for Rock and Fu... and he did some for Crosby, Sills and Nash, or Sills and Nash."

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Personal Life and Marriages

Phil's personal life was marked by intense and often tumultuous relationships. His first marriage to Gretchen Lewis ended in divorce in 1972 after less than two years. A decade later, in 1982, Phil married Lisa Jarvis, mirroring the pattern of passionate beginnings followed by eventual separations. Their marriage dissolved in 1985 amidst rising career pressures and personal conflicts.

Notable Quote:
Josh Clark at [22:31]: "You never know what's coming around the corner."

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Rise in Comedy and The Groundlings

Phil's dedication to his craft led him to the Groundlings, a renowned improvisational and sketch comedy troupe in Los Angeles. Despite some skepticism about his unconventional audition story, Phil's undeniable talent secured him a place in the group. Tracy Newman, a founding member, lauded Phil's readiness and commitment, stating, "Phil Hartman walked into the Groundlings ready to go."

Notable Quote:
Chuck Bryant at [19:56]: "Phil Hartman walked into the Groundlings ready to go."

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Saturday Night Live (SNL) Career

In 1985, after contributing to the success of Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Phil was approached by Lorne Michaels to join Saturday Night Live (SNL). Initially hesitant, fearing the show's direction without Michaels, Phil eventually auditioned and was hired for the late 1980s season. Over eight seasons, Phil became a staple of SNL, renowned for his versatility and reliability, earning the nickname "The Glue" for his stabilizing presence amidst numerous cast changes.

Notable Quote:
Chuck Bryant at [29:12]: "He was in more sketches than any other cast member."

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Iconic Characters and Sketches

Phil's tenure on SNL was marked by the creation and portrayal of memorable characters:

1. Phil Donahue: A satirical take on the real-life talk show host.
2. Ed McMahon: An impersonation of the legendary television personality.
3. Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer: A humorous character combining a caveman's persona with legal expertise.
4. Senior Citizen Party Animal: Showcasing Phil's knack for physical comedy and exaggerated expressions.

Each character highlighted different facets of Phil's comedic genius, making him a fan favorite and a respected figure among his peers.

Notable Quote:
Josh Clark at [38:03]: "Unfrozen caveman lawyer... an exceptional idea to start with."

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Transition to The Simpsons

Simultaneously with his SNL career, Phil expanded his horizons by lending his voice to The Simpsons. Initially reluctant after a negative experience with voice acting, Phil's exceptional performance led to recurring roles. He voiced iconic characters such as Troy McClure and Lionel Hutz, adding depth and humor to the animated series.

Notable Quote:
Chuck Bryant at [44:30]: "I remember... I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from certain dates."

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Tragic End and Aftermath

Phil Hartman's life was tragically cut short on May 27, 1998. His wife, Brynn Omdahl, amidst struggles with addiction and marital tensions, fatally shot Phil and then took her own life. The incident shocked fans and colleagues alike, casting a somber shadow over Phil's legacy.

Notable Quote:
Josh Clark at [51:17]: "Phil was gonna come back to NewsRadio. It's not like he was done with the show."

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Legacy and Remembrance

Despite the tragedy, Phil Hartman's contributions to comedy and entertainment remain significant. Posthumously, he received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame in 2014, cementing his status as a comedic legend. His characters continue to influence and inspire comedians and actors, ensuring that Phil's spirit endures in the annals of entertainment history.

Notable Quote:
Chuck Bryant at [52:46]: "We should mention Bryn's sister Kathy respected her wishes and she's who raised the kids."

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Conclusion

"The Phil Hartman Story" serves as both a celebration of Phil's remarkable talents and a poignant reminder of the fragility of life. Through insightful discussions, personal anecdotes, and a thorough examination of his career milestones, Josh and Chuck offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of Phil Hartman's enduring impact on the world of comedy and beyond.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Chuck Bryant]

This is an iHeart podcast. Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. And it's just us. Jerry's not here. And this is stuff you should know. The invincible duo. The ambiguously gay duo. Yes, sir. You are correct. That was pretty good. I love it with. There's like a impression of an impression.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's all I do.

[Josh Clark]

It's true.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's my specialty.

[Josh Clark]

But you do it so well.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. That bit was obviously the great Phil Hartman. The late, great Phil Hartman's Ed McMahon. And that was something that. In college. And, you know, my college years were generally the Phil Hartman years on snl. My good friend Eddie and I, you know, Eddie, we. For some reason, that one really took care. And still to this day, one of us will say something and the other will go, yes, sir.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I mean, it's timeless, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Really stuck with this.

[Josh Clark]

I'm sure there's even people walking around doing that who have no idea who Ed McMahon is.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, probably.

[Josh Clark]

There's at least two. That's what I'm putting money on.

[Chuck Bryant]

You and someone else.

[Josh Clark]

I know who Ed McMahon is. I'm just kidding. I'm a fully realized person.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know. I'm joking.

[Josh Clark]

We're not talking about Ed McMahon, though. Not really. We're talking about the first guy you mentioned you were doing an impression of, Phil Hartman, who turns out to be a pretty great, complicated, tragic, ultimately dude.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. You know, Actor and comedian, known best for his work on probably Saturday Night Live and the Simpsons. And Dave helped us with this, and he wanted us to shout out a book by Mike Thomas called, you Might Remember Me, the Life and Times of Phil Hartman with one N. Even though he was born with two n's on the name Hartman. Right.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I thought that was pretty crazy. He dropped the second N for his, I guess, stage name.

[Chuck Bryant]

It looks like a typo. That would be my guess.

[Josh Clark]

The second N. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

It just looks odd.

[Josh Clark]

Well, maybe they pronounced it a little differently, too. Like Phil Hartman, probably so. So when he was born in 1948, when he was still named Phil Hartman, he was born in Brantford, Ontario. And that might sound familiar to hockey fans because that's where Wayne Gretzky's from. But after Wayne Gretzky, I would say Phil Hartman's probably the second most famous person from Brantford, Ontario.

[Chuck Bryant]

Boy, I hope you're right.

[Josh Clark]

I'm totally not. There's going to be, like, Tawny Catayan or Something will be from. From Brantford, Ontario. Although she may still fall behind. Phil Hartman.

[Chuck Bryant]

She passed away too, I believe, Right?

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. I stopped keeping up with her after she and David Coverdale broke up.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think Wayne Gretzky's alive, though.

[Josh Clark]

Yes, he is. Alive and slapping.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. Phil was a middle kid, number four of eight. And as oftentimes with a middle child, especially in Phil's case, when you have an older brother who is like, super athletic and handsome and a younger sister that needed special care because of a rare condition called Angelman syndrome. Phil, it seems like, felt like he needed to sort of just attract attention by goofing off and being the class clown. The family clown.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. That's what middle kids do. He had like, J.M. brady syndrome, but instead of wearing an Afro wig, he became an actually funny person. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I guess one of the big things that happened to him was when he and his family moved to California when he was nine. Okay. Nine, eight, something like that. He was around that age, and California, like, really suited his blood. I mean, he was born in Ontario. When you moved to, like, Malibu area, like, you're. That's a pretty good move. Typically, I love Toronto and I'm not like, throwing shade on Ontario in general, but, you know, when you move out to Southern California from there, it's. It's a little different, you know?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Especially if it turns out you love surfing, sailing, and smoking weed or smoking grass at the time, I guess you would say.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, the three S's.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Because he. Something that I learned yesterday was that Phil Hartman was a big pothead.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. But the kind that the cops wouldn't search your car if you got pulled over. Which is a lesson to all those potheads out there. You don't have to look like a pothead to be a pothead.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Yeah. He can look straight and make the cops laugh, and they'll just say, go along your day. You're just a fun kid.

[Josh Clark]

Exactly. I'll just totally ignore that smell coming out of your car.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So, yeah, he. He was really into Southern California life. Apparently he was a great surfer. By the time he was 13, this guy was just full of surprises.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And around this time, maybe even a little earlier, he. He started to get into comedy. He started doing the. He took the steps that every young comedian takes, and that's. You start idolizing some different comedians, stand up comedians. And his were Bob Newhart.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And the other one. And Jonathan Winters, who, even if you don't know who Jonathan Winters is. But you're a more Mork and Mindy fan. Yeah, he was the giant old baby that arrived in an egg at Mork and Mindy's Tourist up, I guess. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And Winners and Newhart, actually they were sort of comedians, comedians back then in that era from like the 1950s and into the 60s. And both of them were just incredible standups. Jonathan Winters was so funny, especially like with character work and stuff like that, which Newhart didn't do. So between the two of those, he got a pretty like well rounded comedy education. Memorizing those albums, doing like I did as a kid, memorizing comedy albums, performing bits for friends and family, stuff like that. And especially on winners side, those impressions that Jonathan Winters would do, Phil Hartman would copy those and then come up with his own.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And very quickly he excelled past even Jonathan Winters. Like he was in rich little area by the time he was probably, you know, mid teens.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. There's a great story Dave found, I think it was from the book that he and a bunch of friends went skiing at Mammoth Mountain outside of la and as the story goes, they were hanging around at the hot springs that night and Phil's friend said, hey man, start, you know, doing some of your bits here for everybody and impressions. And this sounds like one of those stories has sort of, you know, grown over the years because they say over two hours Phil performed basically in front of 100 strangers. I'm not quite sure if I believe that part because I've been to parties at ski resorts, hanging out at hot springs, and I'm sure he got a lot of jokes in, but I'm not sure if everyone would just sit there for two hours and watch some guy.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And then one of his friends announced, ladies and gentlemen, that was Mr. Phil Hartman. And someday he's going to be a big star. Remember this night?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, maybe it happened, but it's in good clothes. It's probably apocryphal. But I bet a version of that story happened where Phil was like the life of the party essentially is my takeaway.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. From. From a pretty early age. Right. So he's clearly funny, he's really good at impressions. But his path to comedy, I guess was kind of circuitous because he. Well, his brother, his older brother, the handsome athletic one you mentioned earlier, John. John decided he wanted to try to get into acting. And I guess this was before Phil could even get a chance. And John went to Hollywood, came back reporting that he was not okay with how seedy Hollywood was, amoral, not Anything like an Ontarian would. Would be okay with.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And so he said, I'm not going to do acting. And I think that kind of scared Phil a little bit, or at least guided him away from acting for a little while.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it seems like it. John went into the music business and co founded a management company called Hartman and Goodman. And it seems like they had a real. Had their thumb on the pulse. Thumb on the pulse, sure. You can do that, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, you could use your thumb for that.

[Chuck Bryant]

They had their thumb on the pulse of that Laurel Canyon sort of country rock scene because they ended up managing the likes of Neil Young, America, Buffalo Springfield, the Eagles, Joni Mitchell, Jackson Brown, Mamas and the Papas.

[Josh Clark]

Wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

Kind of. That whole scene they were management for.

[Josh Clark]

That is a mellow roster, man.

[Chuck Bryant]

It is. And probably a lot of grass being smoked.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. And Phil smoked a bunch of it too. He got brought on eventually. He went to art school for a little while, tried to go to the University of Hawaii, was turned down. And I'm sure he wanted to go to the University of Hawaii to surf.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's exactly what I thought.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So his older brother was like, hey, man, you're not doing anything. You got some art school under your belt. Why don't you come and work for. For me as a roadie? Because that's what people who go to art school end up doing almost invariably.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. He hooked him up with a little hippie rock band called Rockin Foo. Foo. Did you listen to any Rock and Foo?

[Josh Clark]

I didn't. I looked up the. The band members, though. One of them was. It was a child actor prior to Rock and Fu. He was on F Troop, Gunsmoke, a bunch of other stuff. And then another one was the guitarist and a lot of the Monkees hits.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, that's cool. I listened to like three rock and Fu songs and I. I liked it.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, okay. I saw a photo of the band and I was like, I'm not listening to that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, it was. It's probably not your bag, baby. It. It was that sort of, you know, kind of. That again, that Laurel Canyon sort of country rock thing, I. I dug it. I thought it was pretty cool.

[Josh Clark]

Hey, I love America. Don't get me wrong. I think they're great, but you're no communist. Out of. Out of all of the list of bands that you rattled off there, you know, I like that band the most.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. It's just not your bag. I get it. I'm not. I'm not bagging on you.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. Thanks for being A comic than bagging on it on me for it not being my bag.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, you like craft work, for God's sakes. And elevator music.

[Josh Clark]

I like. I like most stuff. Just.

[Chuck Bryant]

You're not going to listen to the.

[Josh Clark]

Eagles that you rattled off? Definitely. No, no.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

I'm virulently opposed to listening to Eagles.

[Chuck Bryant]

They manage Sonny and Cher, too. You probably like them the most.

[Josh Clark]

They're fine. I don't remember what I said on our Sonny and Cher episode, but I don't remember ever being, like, super into their music.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Okay.

[Josh Clark]

I guess none of this really matters because what we're really talking about is Phil Hartman and him being a roadie.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

He kind of started living the rock and roll lifestyle as a roadie for some of these bands. And because he had some art school and he was kind of a developing artist at the time, his brother was like, hey, why don't you do some of these album covers for some of the bands? And he did. And at least one of them was pretty good.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, he did two for Rock and Fu. I think they only did two albums, so he dominated their album cover art.

[Josh Clark]

Nice.

[Chuck Bryant]

He did some for Crosby, Sills and Nash, or Sills and Nash.

[Josh Clark]

I wrote that, too.

[Chuck Bryant]

America. He did one for your favorite band, America.

[Josh Clark]

Yep.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did one for Poco. That's probably the most noteworthy for their album Legend of this. It's a very minimalist artwork of a horse. And I wanted to mention it is all over the Internet that he did the COVID for Steely Dan's seminal album Asia. And he did not. But it's everywhere on the Internet as fact, and it's apparently not true.

[Josh Clark]

What a weird rumor. Cause that's just such an arcane fact about him that he ever designed any album covers. But then for a rumor to be about him making one that he didn't, that's really bizarre. But that's the Internet for you, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And I'm pretty positive it wasn't him because other people sleuthed it out and dug up the actual artist. And so if you're about to email and say, dude, he did Asia, I think he did not.

[Josh Clark]

No, the one who. The guy who actually did it was Phil Hartman with two N's.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

That's why people were confused, I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, good point.

[Josh Clark]

So around this time also, Phil kicked off. And by the way, we're on a first name basis with Phil Hartman, so we're just going keep calling him Phil. He kicked off what would become essentially his trademark for his love life. Which was he would fall head over heels for a very, very pretty girl and they would be hot and heavy for a while and then he would get married and then basically be like, this isn't working out after a couple of years. And the first person he did that with when he was, I think 21, maybe 22, was a 19 year old woman from Malibu named Gretchen Lewis. And she got pregnant pretty quickly while they started dating, but they didn't keep the kid. But they got married after all.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, they divorced in 1972, so I guess either two years or a little under two years. And after that he got his first professional stage credit when he played Harold Hill in the Music man for the Santa Monica Theater Company. And Mike Thomas, the guy who wrote the biography, had a quote from one of Phil's co stars in the Music man that said Phil was a true artist. He didn't really march to the same drum as other people, although it was a part of him that wanted to be perceived as normal. He went through life trying to find a character that he could present to the public that seemed normal and wholesome. And that is also sort of a repeated theme when you talk to friends and colleagues and family over the years was that no one knew the real Phil. And I've known people like that. It's an interesting thing to sort of create Personas rather than be yourself. And that seemed to kind of be the case with him.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, he was heavy into impression management basically everywhere in his entire life. Oh yeah. In all corners, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And also just one thing about his first acting credit being playing Harold Hill, because he went on to play Lyle Langley or Langley, I can't remember which one, who is basically the Simpsons version of Harold Hill from the Music man.

[Chuck Bryant]

In the Monorail episode written by Conan o' Brien.

[Josh Clark]

Man. Yeah, he was one of the better Simpson writers early on.

[Chuck Bryant]

He was. But on that thing about not seeing the real Phil, there was one friend who later said that there was a small room inside Phil that no one will ever get to. So just sort of kind of reinforcing that idea.

[Josh Clark]

And the friend said, I hear it stinks of feet.

[Chuck Bryant]

Should we take a break?

[Josh Clark]

I think it's time. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, we're going to take a break and come back and talk about Phil's entry into the Groundlings right after this.

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[Josh Clark]

So, Chuck, we've surely talked about the Groundlings here. There. There's just no way we haven't. But just to refresh, they are a sketch and improv comedy troupe founded in LA who've basically launched the careers of tons and tons of comedians, including a lot of people on Saturday Night Live. Apparently, Saturday Night Live drafts heavily from the Groundling, Second City and that's it. But some of the. Some of the people from Saturday Night Live who were Groundlings, including some who were groundlings with Phil Hartman, Jon Lovitz was one. Sherry o' Terry, Maya Rudolph, Kristen Wiig, Will Ferrell, and the list just keeps going on Forte.

[Chuck Bryant]

Gotta mention Forte.

[Josh Clark]

He wasn't on Saturday Night Live though. That's why I didn't mention him. What was he?

[Chuck Bryant]

Bill forte was MacGruber, my man.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I didn't realize that was a Saturday Night Live character. Sorry, Will. Sorry.

[Chuck Bryant]

And the Falconer.

[Josh Clark]

I didn't realize that he was on Saturday Night Live. I thought those were like standalone things.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, he, I mean, I just mentioned that because Forte is one of my all time favorite actors and SNL character members. Cast members.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you both then.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, he didn't insult me. I just, I just love Forte. He did. He did the weirdest characters on that show kind of consistently and I always just respected him for that.

[Josh Clark]

Nice. Well, that's great. Was he the Last man on Earth?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

I like that Joe too.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, he's wonderful. I like him a lot. I like him separately. I also like the Last man on Earth. So now that the two are joined, I really like him even more.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, my Only Will Forte experience was. I think I've mentioned this before, but he was an attendee at a good friend's wedding. And my friend sat me, sat Emily and I at his table because he knew I was such a fan. And I partied all night with Will Forte. And he was the coolest, funnest dude.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, that's a great story.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Just a real sweetheart.

[Josh Clark]

So, yeah. So we're talking about the Groundlings, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And this is. I don't know. This story doesn't seem to be apocryphal. It seems to be actually true. It's just exactly how it played out is kind of under question. But there was a birthday party that a friend of Phil Hartman had. I guess a group of them went to a Groundling show, and before the show, Phil Hartman just decided to get up on stage and start doing some of his act.

[Chuck Bryant]

Could that be true?

[Josh Clark]

Who does that supposedly? I don't. I mean, somebody who's hungry for the stage, I guess.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I guess. Yeah, sure, Right.

[Josh Clark]

And so for two hours, he had a hundred strangers just totally enwrapped.

[Chuck Bryant]

No.

[Josh Clark]

A hot springs developed in the room. But no, apparently he definitely killed on stage. And the story is that the Groundlings came up to him after he got off stage and were like, you're in. You want to be in. That seems to not be true. It seems to be that he went up to them afterwards like, hey, what do you think about me getting an audition now? And they said, sure. And he went and auditioned and they said, you're in.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. See, that's the first part of. The second part was the part that I don't believe.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Cause I don't see how there's any way at an improv theater. I know a lot of people in those theaters over the years, and for someone just to jump up on stage and do a bit, I bet they would not have been like, you're wonderful. Can you join? They would have been like, dude, don't ever do that again.

[Josh Clark]

Right, exactly. Like, if they went up to him afterward, they probably would have said, like, please leave.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah. So who knows? But it's a good story. I would love to eventually to do episodes on the Groundlings, Second City, and UCB as just like a little trifecta suite.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, great.

[Chuck Bryant]

At any rate, no matter how it happened, Tracy Newman, who was the founding member of the Groundlings, said that Phil Hartman walked into the Groundlings ready to go.

[Josh Clark]

Right. And that would also. There was a similar quote, I think, from Lorne Michaels years Later, that said, he basically was ready the moment he walked into Saturday Night Live, too. Yeah, he was just a very dedicated actor. And one of the people who really looked up to him became one of his best friends, a fellow Groundling, Jon Lovitz. And he was saying that he would. He called him the King of the Groundlings, which is pretty cool. But as his career went on, he became known as the most reliable actor in any group. Like, he would stick to the sketch, even if it was going badly, he would hang in there. He wouldn't bail on it. He would just keep going until the end. And usually the impression I have is that if he was in a sketch, if it would have gone badly otherwise, if other people were in it, if he was in it, it probably wasn't going badly in the first place, which makes it easier to stick to.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, he just seemed kind of unflappable. We'll talk about some SNL stuff in a bit, but, yeah, I'll just save it for then. But one of his most popular Groundlings characters was Chick Hazard, who was the hard boiled detective, like, out of the film noir. And that's a character that he would sort of reprise in different ways over the years. He was a good. He was just good with his mouth and good with words and could just rattle off really complex, long strings of comedic dialogue, like, you know, Pitch Perfect without missing a beat. And just very, very skilled. Like, some people are funny and some people are super skilled. And he was one that was both.

[Josh Clark]

Right? Yeah, well put, Chuck. I think we can end the podcast.

[Chuck Bryant]

Thing or we should talk about his second marriage.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, well, first though, we should say he was with the groundlings for 11 years, and that is quite a while for being a member of a sketch comedy troupe, including one that doesn't have a TV show or anything. It's like a live theater group. It's a long time. But I think that's kind of like an indicator of the dedication that he brought to acting. Comedy, Comedic acting. I'm not sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, he didn't sort of make it in the public eye until he was in his late 30s. And that's just a long time to hang in there. Yes, especially in comedy. It's not like late 30s is old, but if you haven't made it by that time as an actor or comedian or something, you're probably sort of wondering like, well, should I take up, you know, surfing again?

[Josh Clark]

Right. To those stuff. You should know, listeners out there in your late 30s trying to break into acting still do not be discouraged by what Chuck just said. Keep going, guys. You can.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, don't start surfing. I mean, I didn't get into my career until my late 30s and didn't get really success until my 40s. So I'm living. I mean, you're younger than me, so you are just a pup.

[Josh Clark]

No, that's not true. I was in my mid-30s when things started to pick up for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, but I mean, it's funny that I said that, because we're good examples of, like, hey, you never know what's coming around the corner.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, that's absolutely true. Boy, I could tell you some stories of times when I thought, this life is not gonna work out for me.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, boy. You and me both, man.

[Josh Clark]

So we said that he got. He split up with his first wife, Gretchen, in 1972. He did the bachelor thing for about another decade. And he ran into a woman named Lisa Jarvis. I'm not sure how they met or even necessarily when, but I know in 1982 they got married 10 years after his last divorce. And it basically followed the same pattern as his first marriage. He just, like. It just was like fireworks. And then it cooled off, and then he lost interest.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Their marriage only lasted a few years. They divorced in 1985, the same year that he ended up having some of his first big successes. And that was because five years prior, a guy walks into the groundlings in 1980 named Paul Rubins with a character named Pee Wee Herman under his arm or under his belt.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Have you seen the documentary yet?

[Chuck Bryant]

Still have. Not since you asked me yesterday.

[Josh Clark]

I know. I thought maybe you would have gone and watched it last night or something, but. Okay. So.

[Chuck Bryant]

No. It's so close to being on my tv, you have no idea.

[Josh Clark]

It's really good. So there's a lot about him developing the Pee Wee Herman character. Paul Reubens at the Groundlings, and with a lot of help from other Groundlings, apparently. And they show some of the early stuff on this documentary. He was much more, like, obnoxious. He threw Tootsie Rolls at the crowd. He would insult the crowd.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wow.

[Josh Clark]

And then even after he kind of started to get Pee Wee, like, developed, those early stage shows were full of, like, sexual innuendo and stuff that a little kid wouldn't pick up on, but adults would find funny. But there weren't little kids at these shows anyway, so it didn't matter.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right, right.

[Josh Clark]

But one of the people My point was that really helped develop it was Phil Hartman. And I think even up to the first Season of Pee Wee's Playhouse, he played Captain Carl. His character was. He played a character on Pee Wee's Playhouse for the first season.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. The surly boat captain, Captain Carl. There were other Groundlings around as well, either, you know, in the show with him or writing for him. And Phil was one of the writers as well, and they were selling out every night. They ended up at the Groundlings. They ended up moving to the Roxy Theater, which was a little bit bigger, which we talked about in our Sunset Boulevard episode.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Or if it hasn't come out yet, we will talk about it on that episode.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And then in 1980, there was a producer named Paula Kaufman who said she wanted to create a kid show for adults. Saw Pee Wee at the Groundlings and was like, this is it. This is the show.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Again, this documentary. So, like, this particular part, when they're developing the TV show is just. It's just not so amazing. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

I can't wait.

[Josh Clark]

So Phil was there when Paul Reubens did an HBO special. It was essentially one, I guess, a HBO version of the stage show that it started out as. That caught the attention of other people in Hollywood, and they said, hey, how about a movie? And they did Pee Wee's Big Adventure together. Phil Hartman was a co writer on that. And that was 1985. And so things are finally starting to, like, pick up in ways that Phil Hartman had been hoping. Like, he'd been writing scripts, he'd been auditioning for TV shows. Now all of a sudden, he had a hit movie writing credit under his belt. So he's thinking, okay, things are about to take off. Which explains why in 1985, when Lorne Michaels came to him and said, hey, do you want to audition for Saturday Night Live? He said, no, I'm good. I'm going to pass on that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. This was Lorne Michaels return to snl. He very famously had an absence from the show, and the show kind of did not fare well without Lorne Michaels, the creator.

[Josh Clark]

You weren't a fan of the Tim Kazarinsky years?

[Chuck Bryant]

I mean, no. Some of that stuff is okay, but just as a general success, the show was kind of going downhill.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

But I. Did I get your joke? First of all, Tim Kasarinsky. He was funny, though.

[Josh Clark]

I like that. Oh, no, he was. He was, like, perfect for the characters he played. Like on Police Academy. I can't remember his character's name. He was great on that.

[Chuck Bryant]

He's the same guy. I forgot about that.

[Josh Clark]

Yep.

[Chuck Bryant]

But Lauren came back to save the show in 85 86. He again, like you said, asked Phil to come aboard. He said no because he was, you know, he thought he could make it as an actor, you know, in just regular comedies. And Jon Lovitz joined instead. And then Jon Lovitz got him another audition for the 8687 season. He went in. He had already met Lorne a couple of times. 1 When he met Lorne Michaels, I believe at the, I think when Rubens hosted SNL for the first time is when he first met Lorne. But then he also had a small part in Three Amigos, which Lorne produced. And then if you ever have a chance, just sit down on YouTube and watch the Phil Hartman audition for SNL. He did that Chick Hazard character first. He did one of the fake commercials and that's where you can tell just how skilled he is because it's one of those fast talking commercials where he's talking like this about a product. But it's not, you know, he's not reading cue cards. It's just in his brain and memorize and he just, it's flawless. And you hear something that you just never hear in an SNL audition, which is people laughing. They're very famous for just sort of sitting there stone faced.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Even if you're doing well and you hear people laughing in the background.

[Josh Clark]

Right. Yeah. That is very telling. For sure. So there one, there's one part of his audition reel where he does an impression of a German comedian doing impressions of famous people.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was so good.

[Josh Clark]

He said the funniest man in Germany, Gunter Johann. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And so Gunther does impressions of like Jack Nicholson, John Wayne, Jack Benny, but they're all speaking German and it's just like a spot on impression of John Wayne.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Speaking German. And he's doing an impression of a German comedian doing these impressions. It's just amazing. He goes right into it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

It really does show off his talent. Plus it's also hilarious too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's good.

[Josh Clark]

A lot of times when you talk about people being funny, it loses its funniness. So just go watch it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Agreed. Totally agree. He was hired with pretty rock star cast. All new members, Jan Hook, Dana Carvey, Victoria Jackson and Kevin Nealon.

[Josh Clark]

Man, what a dream team.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, pretty good. And that really kind of helped bring.

[Josh Clark]

The show back and how, I mean, to me that's like the golden age. I think it destroys the 70s. The 70s was cool and like amazing and you know, really energetic. But the 80s were just like pro.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

To me. Okay. So it could be just that's the one I grew up with. Who knows?

[Chuck Bryant]

But, I mean, there is that theory that whatever age you were in high school, I think is your favorite. What you think is the best snp.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, well, I. I might subscribe to that theory.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I. I love that era.

[Josh Clark]

So let's back up a second because you said that he met Lorne. Phil Hartman met Lorne Michaels when Paul Reubens Pee Wee hosted Saturday night Live in 1985. And the reason that he was there was because Paul Rubens brought Phil Hartman along and another collaborator from the Groundlings, John Paragon, as his. His writers to work with the. The Saturday Night Live writers to make good sketches for Pee Wee Herman for that. That episode. Right. So Peewee, or Paul introduced Phil to Lauren. Lauren comes to call in the next year and the year after that. And eventually Phil says, hey, Paul, I've got to go. I finally got my break. I'm going on a Saturday Night Live. And Paul was not happy about that. If you've seen the documentary, which I know you haven't, they covered this. I watched it real quick just now. Okay. So, you know, then they covered this in the documentary. Apparently it's not a very well known or it's kind of a forgotten story, but they had a falling out and they didn't really talk or ever reconcile for the rest of Phil Hartman's life because Paul was, and there's really no other way to put it, very, very jealous. He felt spurred. Jilted. Spurned. Yeah, jilted. Spurred to action. And he was also, yeah, very jealous because he had tried out for Saturday Night Live and did not get picked up. Oh, and I can't remember who got the spot instead of him. And then. Yeah, and then Phil Hartman left Pee Wee's Playhouse to go to Saturday Night Live. So Paul was kind of a. Not the most forgiving person from what I can tell from the documentary. So he just held that grudge for the rest of Phil Hartman's life.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man, that's sad.

[Josh Clark]

It is sad, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

I hate hearing that. I might pause that part or skip over it when I watch the documentary tonight.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, it's at 1 hour, 23 minutes and 36 seconds is when it starts.

[Chuck Bryant]

Shall we take our final break?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right, let's take another break, and we'll talk about a meeting in 1985 that would change the course of Phil Hartman's life right after this.

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[Chuck Bryant]

All right, as promised, a meeting in 1985 would change the course of Phil Hartman's life. And that is when Phil met a woman named Brynn Omdahl at a party. She was a tall, beautiful blonde from Minnesota, but moved to LA to be a model or an actress or both. And previous to meeting him in the late 70s and early 80s, she had an alcohol problem. She had a cocaine problem, but had gotten sober to her credit and was looking for a good dude to hook up with. And when she met Phil, this is sort of right before Pee Wee's big adventure came out and he got the offer to be on snl. So he was at a pretty low point auditioning and coming out of that second marriage. And so he was like, all right, this beautiful woman loves me. And then maybe validates me in a certain way. And so they got together.

[Josh Clark]

They did. And it was just like all the other ones, except this one was like when it burned red hot. That could also be really bad too. Yeah, it wasn't just like two people super into each other. It was also two people who like, couldn't, couldn't, like just, just clashed a lot, right? So they would get in really big fights and then they would make up and they would get in another fight and then they would make up. And despite this early on, they still ended up getting married and went on to have two kids, Sean and Bergen. I think Sean was the oldest and he was the boy and Bergen was their little girl. And from all accounts, like, Bryn was a really good mom and really loved Phil Hartman. But there was a Huge issue in that she was an aspiring actress, and she wanted to. I think she wanted Phil to help her career more than he was comfortable helping it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

And I totally get this. He was not the kind to be like, hey, can you get my wife on your show? Or, you know, have you seen my wife? Actually is great. Why don't you give her a shot? He just would not do something like that. Right. So that then and there caused some pretty. Pretty serious static between the two. And then on top of that, after they got together, his career actually started taking off. So in addition to him not helping her, she was, like, living in his shadow. So that was a big source of conflict between the two.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. So he's got this marriage that starts, you know, that's, you know, rocky, like his other relationships had been. But it has staying power more than the others. He was 37 when SNL started. Right. Kind of when they got together. And his nickname on SNL was the Glue. You kind of talked earlier about how he was always sort of looked at as a stabilizing force in the Groundlings and snl and his nickname was the Glue because he was just perfect. Basically, whenever he performed. We gotta talk about some of his best characters. Phil Donahue was one of my favorites when he did Phil. Ed McMahon, of course, the aforementioned Ed McMahon was one of my favorites. I really, for some reason, loved the Frankenstein, Tonto, Tarzan bit that he and Kevin Nealon and John Lovitz did when.

[Josh Clark]

They did Little Drummer Boy.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was so silly, but I loved it.

[Josh Clark]

It's pretty good. He was Frankenstein, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, he was Frankenstein. I think Lovitz was Tonto and Neelam was Tarzan. If you haven't seen it, look it up. But basically, the whole point is none of them speak English. And so they would do, like, Christmas songs and Frankenstein would just go, rah, rah, rah. And Lovett's did Tonto. And looking back, it was probably a fairly racist depiction of a Native American.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And then you said Neyland was Tarzan.

[Chuck Bryant]

And I don't even know what Tarzan did. Probably just, like, jungle grunting.

[Josh Clark]

It was. It's very good. I mean, like, basically, we just sit here for the rest of the episode and talk about Phil Hartman sketches because each one was better than the last. Like, unfrozen caveman lawyer.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

First of all, what a what? Like, just an exceptional idea to start with. But he's. He just pulls it off so perfectly. This smarmy lawyer who's an unfrozen caveman who went to law school and became a smarmy, I guess a personal injury lawyer.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I think so.

[Josh Clark]

And again, like, we can talk it out and it will kill any funniness to it. Just go watch that one. Go look up Colon, blow the Saturday Night Live commercial.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, classic it is.

[Josh Clark]

And then Ronald Reagan mastermind. Did you watch that one?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I remember. I didn't rewatch it, but I remembered it.

[Josh Clark]

I rewatched it and I remembered it. It came out around the time the Iran Contra affair scandal broke. And at the time, Ronald Reagan was like, I don't know anything. Like, I didn't know. Who knows? Who knew? Like, I didn't know this was going on. So they make fun of him and his public Persona just kind of being this doddering old man who doesn't really have his finger on the pulse of his own administration to this when people aren't around and it's just him and his staff, him just like barking orders and being totally super sharp and being the mastermind behind everything. It's in like the. His just turning public Reagan on and off and then turning that private like aggressive Reagan on and off. It's just, I mean, like you really see, like this guy was amazing. Like, like one of a kind, basically. I can't think of anybody who could do the stuff that he did before him or since.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Well said. He would go on to do another president very famously in 92 when Bill Clinton won the presidency and he had just a dead on Clinton impersonation. Just not only the voice, but just his sort of the smarmy kind of Bill Clinton thing and the ego, like they lampooned him very, very well, very effectively.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, there's one where he was jogging into a McDonald's while he was running for president during like a campaign stop. And he's like, you know, about to kiss a baby. And he looks past the baby and says to the mom, like, hey, are you going to eat the rest of those french fries? And it just goes from there. Oh my God, it's perfect. So one of the things about Saturday Night Live that I learned even as a young viewer, if you are on beyond a certain number of years, it starts to have a certain kind of look like it kind of shows the world like you are perfect for a Saturday Night Live, but for some reason it's not clicking outside of that. So you just hang in there as long as you can at Saturday Night Live. And what's astounding and nuts is that that happened to Phil Hartman. He was There through a couple of cast changes. Like, big time, huge cast changes. Where it went from like Kevin Nealon and Jan Hooks to Chris Farley and David Spade and Chris Rock, too, at the same time as well. I think Sir Silverman came in around that time, too. So, like, he was in for a huge transition. He straddled two big transitions of Saturday Night Live, and that's just like with the Groundlings. This is a really long time to be a member of Saturday Night Live, and I think he felt overlooked because a lot of his colleagues were starting to get their own movies and he was not.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, he was on for eight seasons. Over those eight seasons, he did. He was in more sketches than any other cast member. When he retired from snl, they gave him. On the show, they gave him a little statue of an Elmer's Glue, like, affixed to a trophy kind of thing, because of his nickname, the Glue. But, yeah, he definitely was getting side parts in these movies. Like he was in so I Married an Ex Murderer. He was in Coneheads, but he wasn't the star. And by the time he was Rock and Sandler and those guys came along in Farley, he was in his 40s and he was kind of playing the straight man roles like the old man of the family. One sort of obvious example is the Matt Foley living in a van down by the river. The motivational speaker sketch. Phil Hartman was the dad, and no one remembers that because everyone remembers Chris Farley. Quick aside, that sketch was created and written by Bob Odenkirk.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, I forgot. He wrote for Saturday Night Live too.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, and the reason I know that is because I watch Kevin. I follow Kevin Nealon on Instagram, and he does this. I don't know if he releases them as a podcast. I'm going to have to look. But he does these hikes through one of the canyons there in LA in the Hollywood Hills, and he interviews people on these hikes. And he was interviewing Bob Odenkirk and they were talking about that sketch.

[Josh Clark]

That's awesome.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's cool.

[Josh Clark]

It is a great sketch. But you can kind of see how, like, Phil Hartman's super pro, really contained and perfect delivery and style. It doesn't jibe well unless he's just playing it straight to somebody like Farley just going berserk.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right?

[Josh Clark]

You know, Totally. So, yeah, he finally. He left. He left on great terms. He just killed Saturday Night Live. He became a legend on Saturday Night Live, and he went on to still have a pretty great career. He went on to do four seasons of News Radio, which is one of the great underrated office comedies. Along with working the one that Fred Savage was in. Did you ever see that one?

[Chuck Bryant]

No.

[Josh Clark]

It was good. And Just Shoot Me is the other underrated office comedy of all time, I think, from the 90s, at least. But he was on four episodes of news radio. Had a great character.

[Chuck Bryant]

Four seasons. Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

What'd I say?

[Chuck Bryant]

Episodes.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, seasons, for sure. Had a great character, Bill McNeil. And he just basically picked up a second part of his career. And then also simultaneously, he was doing the Simpsons, too, which is where a lot of people fell in love with Phil Hartman.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, Just a little show called the Simpsons. He was asked in 1990 to do some voiceover work for that show. And he said, yeah, I'll do it, but just one time. Because he apparently had a pretty bad experience doing voiceover for animation for the Dennis the Menace animated show.

[Josh Clark]

I remember that.

[Chuck Bryant]

But he said, I'll do it just once. But then, of course, that didn't last because he was great on it. And he started working with the writers, started developing characters. And for eight seasons, he voiced some of the most iconic characters. Of course, the great Troy McClure and Lionel Hutt's attorney at law are the two sort of most notable because, you know, they would come on as their little side bits here and there. But Troy McClure actually ended up getting a pretty major storyline when he hooked up with. Which one was it?

[Josh Clark]

I think Patty. I don't remember.

[Chuck Bryant]

One of Marge's two sisters. I couldn't remember if it was Patty or.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, God, Selma.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't watch Selma. Yeah, that's right.

[Josh Clark]

But it was one of them.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, they fell in love. And that's from. One of my favorite lines from Troy McClure was after they went out on a date, he sees her the next day. And his famous line was, you may remember me from whatever, like, acting role that he was in. And in this case, he said, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from certain dates. Like last night.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, he was well known for that. You may remember me from such educational films as the Decapitation of Larry Leadfoot.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, man.

[Josh Clark]

Where Here Comes the Metric System. Yeah, he was great. Yeah. And, like, he had one episode where he was big, but the rest of the time, it was just, like you said, a little side thing. And he still created a legendary character times two. And as a matter of fact, when he died. The Simpsons are like Lionel hutz and Troy McClure will never appear on The Simpsons, again. They just couldn't. No one else could do it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

So speaking of him dying, this is going to go long because this is kind of an involved story. But he. Like I said, he and Bryn had a lot of tension. Apparently. Phil Hartman had a anxious, avoidant attachment style when she wanted to talk, when she was confrontational, he would basically get in a sailboat and sail off to Catalina island alone, I. I take it. But he was just. He would withdraw. You couldn't get to him. That was the way that he dealt with it. And she did not like that. I think it made her feel very lonely. And then again, she was living in a shadow. He wasn't helping her career. They had two kids, and again, she was a really, really good mom by all accounts. She also had some former demons that she had conquered, including an alcohol addiction and an addiction to cocaine. And she was clean when she and Phil met, and she stayed clean for a while. But she got back on the cocaine train after she did coke with Andy Dick at a news radio party Christmas party in 1997.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, we don't know if that's the first time she started back again, but as the story goes, he offered her cocaine. He said that he didn't know that she had had a drug problem before, did not know that apparently she had been clean. And Jon Lovitz, for many, many years, was very public about blaming Andy Dick for, you know, for her falling off the wagon. And it led to a crazy story where in 2007, Jon Lovitz assaulted Andy Dick at the Laugh Factory and, like, got into a. I mean, I was gonna say a fist fight, but it doesn't sound like it was punchy. But more Jon Lovitz, at least as the way he tells it, ramming Andy Dick's head back into the bar, like, repeatedly, and said, I would have kept doing it, too, but the bartender stepped in.

[Josh Clark]

I'm Frenchie. Yeah. He. Apparently he. He took over for Phil Hartman after Phil Hartman died on news radio. And, like, one of the first days, he said to Andy Dick, I wouldn't be here if you hadn't given cocaine to Brent. So he blamed Andy Dick for the death of Bryn and Phil. So Andy Dick didn't like that. Later on, he said he saw. They. They saw each other at a restaurant. He said, I put the Phil Hartman hex on you. You're the next to die. And then the next time they saw each other is when Jon Lovitz beat up Andy Dick, which, I mean, had no idea about that. Did you?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I didn't know that story until today or yesterday or whenever you sent it over, which is just one of those crazy stories. But very sadly, it was May 27, and, you know, we should say Bryn at this point. She was upset about Phil's, you know, smoking too much weed. She had an anxiety problem. She was suffering through some depression. She got on antidepressants, started drinking again. Not sure who started the cocaine thing, maybe Andy Dick, but she got back into cocaine and was in a pretty bad state of mind. And on May 27, 1998, she had gone out for drinks at an Italian restaurant and wanted to go to another bar, but her friend didn't want to. So she called up her old drugging Buddy from the 70s and early 80s, a guy named Doug. And Doug was clean now, but said, why don't you come over to my house? She had some more drinks over there and was basically complaining about her marriage, about Phil smoking too much pot and then not getting along and being just at loose ends. And at one in the morning, he's like, you know, you need to go home. You need to go home to your husband.

[Josh Clark]

So she did. I don't think she had much of a choice. Doug was like, you gotta leave. And I guess when she got home, shortly after that, she and Phil got into an argument. Phil went off to bed, managed to fall asleep. And remember, Brunazon Zoloft has been drinking for hours now and is on cocaine. And she went and got one of their guns, a.38 Special, and walked up to Phil while he was sleeping and shot him three times, once in the head. And I never saw if he woke up or if he even knew it happened. Hopefully not. And he just died while he was asleep. That would be what I would hope, but he died instantly because he was shot three times at close range.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So about an hour after that, she called up her friend Doug, who she was just with. She was super, super drunk at this point. Doug said, you need to just sleep this off. She didn't tell him at that point when it happened. And about 20 minutes later, she shows up back at Doug's house saying that she killed Phil. And he doesn't believe her. And then apparently, as the story goes, while she was there, the gun fell out of her purse, and he was like, what is going on? He helps her sober up over the course of a couple of hours, drives her back over at about 6 in the morning to their house, and he sees Phil dead. And he calls the cops. And at that point, Bryn locks herself in the bedroom with Phil's body. And that's where she was when the cops arrived.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, both of their kids were in the house at the time. I think Shawn, the oldest, woke up and Doug was like, let's get you out of here. And took Shawn outside to the police. But the whole time, Bergen's sleeping through, like, her mom just murdered her dad. And then it just gets worse, actually.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So she is barricaded in the room with Phil. The cops are there. She's making phone calls to friends and family saying, you know, confessing basically to what she had done. And finally her last call was to her sister Kathy. She said, take care of my children. Just let them know how much I love them. She got a second gun and laid down on the bed next to Phil and shot herself and killed herself.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And became one of the most hated people in America, if not the world, almost overnight. I remember eating her guts when I heard about this.

[Chuck Bryant]

Me too.

[Josh Clark]

As an older person, I. I have a little more empathy for just the amount of loneliness and then also being on antidepressants. Cocaine and alcohol definitely is not a good combination, especially when you have guns in the house. But, yeah, I've changed my approach to her a little bit. And I was kind of happy to read that at the. At the funeral, Phil's brother John was asking the people in attendance, like, please try to find it in your heart to forgive her for this. Like, this wasn't. This is. This was a horrible thing. But it's not like she was evil. She was a loving. A loving wife and a loving mother. And like, let's try to remember her for that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure. And especially at the funeral, to have the guts to say something like that was pretty. Pretty stand up thing to do, I think. Yeah. A good, like, life lesson there. Phil was. He was gonna come back to newsradio. It's not like he was done with the show. He was gonna come back for season five. But like you mentioned, Jon Lovitz took over the first episode of season five, dealt with the death of the character. It was called Bill Moves On. Very emotional episode. And I think you already mentioned that they, you know, the Simpsons was like, we're never, ever gonna get someone to do Troy McClure or Lionel Hutts again.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's true. And then he finally got his star on the Walk of fame in 2014.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And we should mention Bryn's sister Kathy respected her wishes and she's. Who raised the kids.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Along with her husband.

[Josh Clark]

Yep. So Good for her. For them. That's Phil Hartman. One of the sad outcomes of all this, Chuck, I think, is when you search Phil Hartman, just Phil Hartman, most of what comes up on the first couple pages of search engines is about the murder.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Not like, look at all the hilarious stuff he did. So maybe look up Phil Hartman SNL videos and just go from there.

[Chuck Bryant]

Totally.

[Josh Clark]

And that's all we have to say about Phil Hartman for now. So I guess, Chuck, it's time for listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

This is from Katie Josiah, a six month old baby.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, wow. And Chris, this is amazing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey, guys. My wife and I were just listening to the William A. Mitchell story from a few weeks ago. We heard that Bill was the inventor of Tang. My wife is from Georgia, but I'm from the Midwest, so we always like to talk about things we grew up with. Different foods and traditions, restaurants, et cetera, and how they were similar or sometimes very different. Well, I found out that I consumed Tang in a very unique way, apparently.

[Josh Clark]

Hot, I thought he was gonna say right up the nose.

[Chuck Bryant]

When I was young, in the winter months in Ohio, my dad would warm up the kettle and mix Tang in boiling water. It was a warm drink that we could have whenever we played out in the snow. And my sister and I loved it. And he called it Hot Tang. And I just thought all Tang was consumed hot, which is pretty funny. I've actually never drank cold or even room temperature tang. Hope all is well with you and yours. With love, from North Georgia, Katie Josiah, 6 months old. And Chris.

[Josh Clark]

I would try that, especially with like a cinnamon stick.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it sounds like a. You ever have like, theraflu or something.

[Josh Clark]

When you're sick, man?

[Chuck Bryant]

Or hot. Or hot toddy?

[Josh Clark]

I love the taste of Theraflux so much. I would drink it once in a while when I'm not sick.

[Chuck Bryant]

It really puts you to sleep, man.

[Josh Clark]

It really does if you get the good stuff.

[Chuck Bryant]

I too, love theraflu.

[Josh Clark]

The warning on the box about your liver is it scares me. So I only do it once in a while.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, we should get them on as a sponsor, man.

[Josh Clark]

We should. We should drink it on. On the podcast once in a while.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, but a bit Tang. Hot Tang is pretty similar. And a bit of a little whiskey in there would be pretty good.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, well, don't get Katie started this early. She's only six months old. Old?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, Katie's the wife.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, okay. Well, who is six months old?

[Chuck Bryant]

That. What was it? Josiah.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, okay. I thought Katie's last name was Josiah. I see. There was a comma in there that I wasn't aware of.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Chris wrote the letter.

[Josh Clark]

Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

He married Katie.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

And they had Josiah six months ago.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, gotcha. Well, I guess I should just say congratulations to Katie and John.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Yeah. For Josiah and everything else.

[Josh Clark]

There you go. Yeah. And thank you also for sending the email. That was a great one. Hot Tang sounds wonderful. We'll go try it. And if you want to be like Katie, Josiah, and Chris, who I may have just called John, I'm not sure. You can send us an email, too. @stuffpodcastheartradio.com.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast.