Stuff You Should Know — “The SAD Episode” (Jan 8, 2026)

Hosts: Josh Clark & Chuck Bryant
Producer: iHeartPodcasts
Main Theme: Understanding Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)—history, science, symptoms, causes, and treatments—with Josh and Chuck’s trademark warmth, humor, and relatable tangents.

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), exploring what it is, how it differs from the “winter blues,” its biological underpinnings, diagnosis, treatments, and some surprising geographical findings. Along the way, Josh and Chuck sprinkle the discussion with personal stories, banter, and their classic blend of humor and empathy.

1. Defining SAD: It’s More Than the Winter Blues

[07:00]

• Josh starts by clarifying that neither he nor Chuck have SAD but understand it’s debilitating.
• Chuck notes: SAD is not just feeling a bit down in winter—it’s a major depressive disorder with a seasonal pattern, officially recognized in the DSM.
  • Quote:

    “Just right off the bat, we should point out... This is legitimate depression and comorbid with stuff like bipolar disorder... It’s not just, you know, ‘Oh, I get a little blue in the winter.’” [(07:04–07:23) – Chuck]

2. Prevalence, Subtypes, and Demographics

[07:51]

• Prevalence: About 5% of Americans experience true SAD; about 10% experience “sub-syndromal” SAD (not full depression but worse than winter blues).
• Demographics:

  • SAD typically begins in young adulthood (18–30).

  • Women are four times more likely to have SAD.

  • Existing mood disorders (especially bipolar) increase susceptibility.

  • Higher prevalence further from the equator; e.g., Seattle is #9 in the U.S. for SAD rates.

  • There’s a rare “reverse SAD” (0.5%) where depression occurs in spring/summer.

  • Quote:

    “Women are four times likelier than men to have it... If you have an existing mood disorder, you’re much likelier to suffer from seasonal affective disorder.” [(11:33–11:55) – Josh]

3. Symptoms of SAD (Winter and Summer Types)

[14:01]

• Common depressive symptoms: Listlessness, loss of interest in activities, trouble concentrating, hopelessness, and physical heaviness/lethargy.

• Winter SAD add-ons: Oversleeping, carb cravings, overeating/weight gain, pronounced fatigue.

• Summer SAD symptoms: Opposite—insomnia, low appetite/weight loss, anxiety/agitation, headaches, increased irritability.

  • Quote:

    “With winter SAD, you go inward... With summer SAD, you go outward—but it’s not like you’re just more sociable. You’re... more aggro, potentially.” [(16:30–16:45) – Josh]

4. When to Seek Help and Diagnosis

[17:28]

• Warning signs:
  1. Symptoms last for days on end (not just a bad few days)
  2. Major changes in sleep/appetite
  3. Coping with drugs/alcohol
  4. Hopelessness or suicidal thoughts
• Diagnosis: Two consecutive years of seasonal symptoms, no lab test—clinicians may rule out other causes (e.g., thyroid issues).

5. The Evolutionary (and Neanderthal) Roots of SAD

[22:36]

• Evolutionary perspective:

  • Humans, and possibly Neanderthals, evolved to slow down in winter to conserve energy when food is scarce and it’s cold.

  • Modern life fights this biological inclination, but some people’s brains go haywire—resulting in SAD.

  • Quote:

    “Your body just changes... without conscious thought... you slow down in the wintertime and you speed up in the summertime. That’s just what our bodies do.” [(24:00–25:10) – Josh]

6. Biological Mechanisms: The Science of SAD

a. Serotonin
[32:01]

• Sunlight triggers serotonin production in the retina, impacting mood, sleep, cognition.

• In winter, less sunlight means less serotonin. In SAD patients, the transporter that clears serotonin from the synapse does not decrease as it should, so they get a double-hit: less serotonin, more “clearing,” leading to more depression.

  • Quote:

    “So like everybody else, they have lower serotonin during the winter, but they have the same amount of serotonin transporters. So there's less serotonin... more transporters removing the serotonin, keeping it from working, which pushes them from non-depressed to depressive symptoms.” [(33:59–34:25) – Josh]

• Genetics: A “short allele” in the serotonin transporter gene makes people more vulnerable to SAD and depression in general.

b. Melatonin and Circadian Rhythms
[36:00]

• Melatonin (the body’s sleep hormone) increases in winter; less sunlight = more melatonin = more sleepiness/lethargy.

• Circadian rhythm, regulated by the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN), is disrupted by light changes.

• Women’s estrogen interacts with these systems, potentially making symptoms more intense.

  • Chuck (38:57): “Your retinas actually react less to light in the winter compared to the summer.”

c. Social and Environmental Factors
[39:45]

• Anticipatory dread of winter, and living in darker/more overcast locales, can trigger or worsen symptoms.

7. Treatments: What Really Works?

a. Antidepressants (SSRIs) and Wellbutrin
[40:25]

• SSRIs are effective and often used only during the dark months (start before symptoms, wean off in spring).
• Risks exist with improper use—should be medically supervised.

b. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)
[41:35]

• Aimed at breaking the negative feedback loop by adjusting thoughts and behaviors related to the seasonal change (e.g., proactively scheduling enjoyable activities, reframing winter).

c. Bright Light Therapy (BLT)
[42:43]

• Sitting near an intense white light box (15–45 minutes every morning) effectively treats winter SAD.
• Works by stimulating retinal sensors, boosting serotonin and suppressing excess melatonin; light boxes are available for checkout in some public libraries.
• Personal anecdote: Josh shares that light boxes significantly helped his wife with sub-syndromal SAD.

d. Dawn Simulation
[45:31]

• Alarm clocks that slowly brighten a room to imitate sunrise can help align circadian rhythms with a healthier mood/wake cycle.

e. Vitamin D
[47:10]

• Correlation exists between vitamin D deficiency and SAD, but supplementation hasn’t shown consistently strong benefits.

8. Surprising Research and Geographic Exceptions

Tromsø, Norway
[47:25]

• Despite two months of polar night, rates of SAD in Tromsø are lower than expected.

• Explanations: Cultural adaptation and positive attitudes toward winter activity (“I love the coziness of the winter months”), community traditions, reframing winter as special.

  • Chuck:

    “They get into their skiing, they get into their winter hiking, they get into their cozy drinks and their warm blankets and their fireplaces... it seems to work.” [(48:24–49:26)]

Contrary Opinions
[49:26]

• Some researchers contest whether SAD exists as a distinct disorder. One 2016 study found no seasonal variation in depression across a large American sample; however, major medical institutions still support SAD’s clinical reality.

9. Notable Quotes & Highlights

• On the “feedback loop” of SAD:

  “The behavior they produce feeds back into becoming more and more depressed.” [(36:00) – Josh]

• On evolutionary roots:

  “They think it’s possible that Neanderthals had like a real type of hibernation period in the winter. Not, you know, like a bear necessarily, but something more pronounced than humans.” [(22:36) – Josh]

• On treatment timing:

  “Depending on where you live, when fall starts rolling around, maybe you start some of these therapies to see if you can head it off at the pass, like in the old West.” [(41:35) – Chuck]

• Classic banter:

  Josh: “You don’t want to overdo it for sure. And I think it’s different for each person how much you actually need. But it does work. I know firsthand it works....” [(44:39)]
  Chuck: “That’s cool. I have friends that use these things just for not even seasonal, just for regular depression. And they say it helps them out.” [(45:05)]

10. Personal Stories & Tangents

• [03:01–07:00]: Chuck’s Broadway & NYC trip; thanks to Natasha Hodgson, the Rockettes, Bar Centrale, Santa, and more.
• [06:09]: Josh’s sick holiday: his cat Momo learned to open presents.
• [27:39]: Holiday weight gain and Christmas cookies.
• [46:46]: Josh now wakes up at 6am instead of 5, to Chuck’s surprise.

11. Listener Mail: Childhood Play & Emotional Health

[51:57]

• Megan from Michigan thanks Josh & Chuck, shares a charming story of her children enacting playful rituals with their dolls ("made gravestones... because their twin baby dolls had died"), and reflects on normal, healthy processing of heavy emotions through play.

12. Final Thoughts

Josh and Chuck deliver an accessible, nuanced, and science-backed exploration of SAD, peppered with empathy, lived experience, and their signature humor. By the end, listeners understand that SAD is a real, treatable condition with deep roots in our biology, but also that mindset, community, and proactive strategies can make a significant difference.

Key Timestamps

• 07:00 – Introducing SAD: Not “just winter blues”
• 11:33 – Demographics: Who gets SAD?
• 14:01 – Symptoms of SAD, winter/summer types
• 22:36 – Evolutionary roots, Neanderthals
• 32:01 – The serotonin pathway
• 36:00 – Melatonin/circadian rhythm
• 40:25 – Treatments overview
• 42:43 – Bright light therapy
• 47:25 – Tromsø, Norway: Why SAD rates are low
• 51:57 – Listener mail

If You Only Remember Three Things:

1. SAD is a real, clinical form of depression—much more severe than typical “winter blues.”
2. Light—both natural and artificial—plays a critical role in regulating mood through serotonin and melatonin.
3. Attitudes and lifestyle adaptation matter: cultural approaches in far-northern locales show that embracing winter traditions and positive reframing can combat the effects of SAD.

End of summary.