The Story of Tavern on the Green

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Story of Tavern on the Green"

Introduction

In the episode titled "The Story of Tavern on the Green," hosts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve into the rich history of one of New York City's most iconic restaurants. Released on November 21, 2024, this episode provides an engaging exploration of Tavern on the Green's transformation from a humble sheep enclosure to a legendary dining establishment nestled within Central Park.

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Origins as a Sheep Enclosure

Timestamps: 04:00 - 07:00

Tavern on the Green initially began as a sheepfold within Central Park. Designed by Jacob Ray Mould in the late 19th century, the sheep enclosure served as an interactive exhibit where visitors could observe and even interact with sheep, including activities like shearing and purchasing wool. As Chuck Bryant highlights, "Sheep used to sleep in Tavern on the Green" (04:44), emphasizing the pastoral charm that attracted city dwellers seeking a respite from urban life.

Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux, the designers of Central Park, envisioned the park as a pastoral haven amidst the burgeoning city. Despite plans for a parade ground, the space was repurposed into a sheep meadow by the 1870s, reflecting New York’s yearning for green spaces in an increasingly urbanized environment.

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Transformation into a Restaurant

Timestamps: 09:00 - 14:00

In 1934, Parks Commissioner Robert Moses spearheaded the transformation of the sheepfold into Tavern on the Green. This move was part of the broader Civil Works Administration (CWA) efforts during the Great Depression to revamp infrastructure and provide employment. Josh Clark notes, "The city’s Parks Department actually owns the restaurant. They just lease it out to different operators who want to try their hand at making it like the premier dining establishment in Manhattan" (04:00).

The inaugural announcement in February 1934 revealed plans to convert the sheepfold into a picturesque restaurant with moderate pricing, aiming to make it accessible to the average patron. The remodeling included paving the dining area with flagstones and setting up outdoor spaces conducive to dining and dancing, enhancing the venue's appeal as a social hub.

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Notable Restaurateurs and Renovations

Timestamps: 22:00 - 30:00

Throughout its history, Tavern on the Green saw various leadership changes that significantly influenced its trajectory. One of the first notable restaurateurs was Joe Baum, who took over in the 1960s. Renowned as "The Cecil B. DeMille of restaurateurs," Baum elevated the restaurant's status, managing other high-profile establishments like the Rainbow Room and the Four Seasons. His tenure established Tavern on the Green as a vital part of New York’s nightlife by the 1950s, expanding the venue to accommodate over 1,200 guests annually (22:00).

In 1974, Warner Leroy, a former theater director, took over operations, infusing the restaurant with a flamboyant flair. Leroy’s renovations included extravagant decorations, such as chandeliers from India and the infamous Crystal Room—a glass-laden space reminiscent of a scene from "Ghostbusters." Leroy's approach was both praised and criticized for its over-the-top aesthetics. Josh shares, "A restaurant is a fantasy kind of living theater in which diners are the most important members of the cast" (26:56), reflecting Leroy’s theatrical vision.

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Golden Era and Popularity

Timestamps: 30:00 - 40:00

Under Leroy's stewardship, Tavern on the Green flourished, becoming a staple for celebrities and high-profile events. The 1980s and 1990s marked the restaurant's peak, with annual revenues surpassing $40 million and serving over 600,000 diners each year. Its allure was further cemented by appearances in popular culture, including films like "Beaches" and "Ghostbusters," where the Crystal Room symbolized opulence and exclusivity.

The restaurant's success was partly due to its strategic location in Central Park and the city's backing, which included a favorable licensing deal facilitated by connections within the Bloomberg administration. Chuck remarks, "That was like a tried and true Robert Moses trick... We've already started if you don't like the idea. Sorry, we've already started" (09:49), highlighting the political maneuvering that supported Tavern on the Green's expansion.

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Decline and Challenges

Timestamps: 40:00 - 50:00

The turn of the millennium brought significant challenges to Tavern on the Green. The passing of Warner Leroy in February 2001 coincided with the September 11 attacks, which adversely affected New York City's economy and tourism. Under Jennifer Oz Leroy's management, the restaurant struggled to maintain its former glory. Critical reviews became harsher, with The New York Times rating Tavern on the Green at most one out of four stars over 23 years (37:29), signaling a decline in both food quality and dining experience.

Issues expanded beyond culinary shortcomings. In 2008, a lawsuit accused the management of sexual and racial harassment, further tarnishing the restaurant’s reputation. By 2009, the Parks Department opted not to renew the Leroy family's 20-year lease, leading to a period of uncertainty and closure from 2010 to 2014 as bids to revitalize the establishment failed to materialize.

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Recent Reopenings and Current Status

Timestamps: 40:00 - 48:00

In 2014, Philadelphia-based partners Jim Caiola and David Salama revitalized Tavern on the Green with a $10 million investment, aiming to restore its historic charm while modernizing the facilities. Their approach focused on preserving original architectural elements like cathedral beams and copper gutters, creating an authentic tavern atmosphere. However, the Crystal Room faced criticism for its overly casual and resort-like ambiance, as noted by Pete Wells: "It resembles an all-day casual dining option at a family-friendly resort in Florida" (41:21).

Despite mixed reviews, the restaurant managed to regain some of its former prestige. Josh offers his personal take, stating, "The food was warm. The service was good" (47:00), acknowledging improvements while recognizing its lingering tourist-centric vibe. The hosts concluded that Tavern on the Green remains a worthwhile experience for both first-time visitors and seasoned New Yorkers seeking a quintessential Central Park dining experience.

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Conclusion

"The Story of Tavern on the Green" episode offers a comprehensive overview of the restaurant's storied past, highlighting its evolution through various eras and management styles. Josh and Chuck's insightful discussion underscores Tavern on the Green's significance as a cultural landmark, reflecting broader trends in New York City's social and economic landscape. Through notable quotes and detailed anecdotes, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of how Tavern on the Green became a symbol of New York's enduring charm and resilience.

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Notable Quotes

• Chuck Bryant: "Sheep used to sleep in Tavern on the Green." (04:44)

• Josh Clark: "A restaurant is a fantasy kind of living theater in which diners are the most important members of the cast." (26:56)

• Chuck Bryant: "That was like a tried and true Robert Moses trick... We've already started if you don't like the idea. Sorry, we've already started." (09:49)

• Pete Wells: "It resembles an all-day casual dining option at a family-friendly resort in Florida." (41:21)

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Final Thoughts

For those interested in the intersection of New York City's history, architecture, and culinary evolution, this episode of "Stuff You Should Know" provides an enlightening narrative. Whether you're a local or a visitor, understanding the legacy of Tavern on the Green enriches the appreciation of Central Park's vibrant cultural tapestry.

Transcript

[Tracy V. Wilson]

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[Josh Clark]

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. And there's Chuck. And Jerry's even here, too. So this is a real deal episode of Stuff you should know. Let's go.

[Josh Clark]

That's right. Another New Yorker dish.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, we're putting them out every week now.

[Josh Clark]

It's been a while.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, it hasn't. We just did Studio 54 a few weeks back.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's pretty New York.

[Josh Clark]

No, I mean, it's super New York. By the way, I sent you pictures, but I went by Studio 54.

[Chuck Bryant]

I know. I saw that.

[Josh Clark]

It was kind of cool. They still have the doors that say Studio 54. They left a few iconic bits. I was on that sidewalk in front of it, trying to imagine people having sex on the sidewalk, and I got really grossed out.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, you could envision it. Oh, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

God, it should have been picked out a hotter couple, maybe in my mind, but didn't do it.

[Chuck Bryant]

No. You got Dan Aykroyd as a wild and crazy guy.

[Josh Clark]

I saw that movie too, when I was there, by the way.

[Chuck Bryant]

What movie?

[Josh Clark]

The Saturday Night Live movie about the first episode of Saturday Night Live.

[Chuck Bryant]

So you saw in your most recent New York trip, you saw There's a movie out, is what you're saying about Saturday Night Live.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's Jason Reitman's new movie. It's called Saturday Night.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, well, good for him. I like most of his stuff.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, if you're a fan of snl, the movie is good enough, I think.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did they portray Chevy Chase like my dad taught me to think of him?

[Josh Clark]

The guy who played Chevy Chase was great.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Was it Chevy Chase?

[Josh Clark]

Chevy Chase Junior.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay, Junior.

[Josh Clark]

It's like when Ice Cube got his son to play him, like. Cause he looks just like him. It was pretty perfect.

[Chuck Bryant]

That kid did really well. Until the hospital scene where Eazy E's dying. Up until that moment, I was like, this kid's pretty good for an amateur.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And even after that, too. Just like, one brief moment and it can be forgiven.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I mean, how do you think you would do in an Easy E death scene, huh? Mr. Big Shot?

[Chuck Bryant]

I would. I'd be pretty over the top, I think.

[Josh Clark]

Easy.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Pounding on the walls and sobbing. Yeah. We both just decided at the same time it's time to get on with the episode, huh?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Enough of that.

[Chuck Bryant]

So, Chuck, we're talking about Tavern on the Green. And I know for a fact that we're talking about Tavern on the Green because you recently dined at Tavern on the Green. And after reading all of this stuff, I actually am. I'm curious to know what you thought of it. Because I'm curious, that's why. Let's just leave it at that.

[Josh Clark]

Well, have you been. Did I ask you that?

[Chuck Bryant]

You didn't. And no. So no to both of those.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, how about this? I'll save my review of the experience till the end.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think that's a great plan just to tantalize listeners. So let's go. Well, we'll tell everybody. If you're not familiar with Tavern on the Green, it's a legendary restaurant, in part because of its location. It's in one of the better restaurant locations in the United States. It's on Central Park. It's actually a part of Central Park. So much so that the city's Parks Department actually owns the restaurant. They just lease it out to different operators who want to try their hand at making it like the premier dining establishment in Manhattan. And at multiple times, it has been exactly that. But what a lot of people don't know, especially if you're not familiar with the restaurant, is that it actually started out as a sheep enclosure. Sheep used to sleep in Tavern on the Green.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. You know, I think that the fact that it's owned by the Parks Department is the fact of the episode. I had no idea until yesterday.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. Yeah, it's definitely up there for sure in this one.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. But Sheepfold is a sheep enclosure. And for the first 60 years or so, that's what Tavern on the Green was. Like you said, just as sort of a quick recap, if you want to listen to our Central park episode, about the history of Central Park. It's well worth a listen. But when Frederick Law Olmsted and Calvert Vaux designed Central park, they won a contest in 1858, design contest for their greensward plan. Part of the plan called for a parade ground and a very big playground right at 66th street on the west side of the park.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And the thing took so long to build. I think they were awarded the contract for their plan in 1858, and by 1870, they were still building this. And they were like, parade grounds are so 1850s. We don't want one of those anymore. We're going to go. We're going to turn it into a sheep meadow instead. Because apparently sheep were all the rage at the time. And I think that actually goes to show, Even by the 1870s, New York was so urbanized that people yearned for kind of a pastoral setting. So much so that they made a sheep meadow with sheep in the middle of Manhattan in Central park, so that people could come, you know, take in the sheep.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Well, not take them into the.

[Chuck Bryant]

Visually, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

We talked a lot about Boss Tweed. Obviously, anytime we're talking about this period, this era of New York, Boss Tweed ran the city. And his cronies got involved with the Central park planning board and said, all right, we're going to do some upgrades, $6 million worth, in fact, which is a ton of money back then and today. But one of the new additions was a really Fancy Sheepfold at 67th and Central park west that was really beautiful. It was designed by Jacob Ray Mould, one of the guys who designed a lot of the actual buildings there in Central park, of which there are not a ton of. But they all have a distinct sort of. They're all sort of like made of stone. And they all are really kind of classy and old school looking.

[Chuck Bryant]

Neo Gothic.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, Neo Gothic. He was really into that Gothic revival stuff. So Mol designed this beautiful sheepfold, and people would, like you said, they would come. It was almost like an interactive little museum. They could come and look at the sheep. They could come and touch different varieties of wool. They would shear those sheep and sell that wool in a big event every year. And it was like you said, it was like, hey, are you tired of the city? Go watch those beautiful Dorset sheep and touch. Almost said, fur their wool. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Good catch. Yeah. New York loves its unofficial mascots. It loves adopting mascots. And I get the impression that that flock of sheep was one of them at the time. So they lived there from the 1870s up until 1934, and they were moved to the Prospect park in Brooklyn. I read somewhere that one of the rumors about that move was that a Hooverville, basically a tenement camp that was set up by people during the Depression to survive in. They were worried that they were going to start poaching sheep, so they moved them from Central park to Prospect park to protect the sheep.

[Josh Clark]

I believe that.

[Chuck Bryant]

But there's a couple of things about that. That sheep enclosure that became Tavern on the Green, one of the things was that the Central Park Zoo, sometimes they would have extra animals, I guess more than they could care for. So they would put them in the sheep enclosure temporarily until they could find someone to sell it to. And at one point, there was a puma in there with the sheep. And I'm quite sure the sheep did not like that at all.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that probably wasn't a good move. They did enjoy their home because this thing in 1871 cost $70,000 to build. And like I said, it was a beautiful building. They had these pavilions built for people to sit in, to watch. And these pavilions had these bucolic pastoral murals, and it was just a lovely little scene there. They even had, of course, a shepherd, the last one to work there. Worked there for the final two decades until 1934. His name was Frank Hoey, and he watched over the herd and lived there. And in 1934, that's like you said, when everything changed, when Parks Commissioner Robert Moses, very famous New York figure, said, you know what? This sheepfold should be a restaurant.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And should be is a weird way to put it, because when he announced it, they'd already started construction on converting it to a restaurant. That was like a tried and true Robert Moses trick, where he's well known, by the way, as over developing and paving New York City, often through vital neighborhoods. But that was just. That was standard Robert Moses stuff like, well, we've already started. If you don't like the idea. Sorry, we've already started and spent money on it. What are we going to do now?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I think his big slogan was, by the way.

[Chuck Bryant]

Exactly. Did I mention?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, did I mention?

[Chuck Bryant]

So this was, I think in February 1934, the announcement came out. The New York Times read, sheepfold and park to become tavern. CWA workers converting old building into a picturesque, popular restaurant. Prices to be moderate.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And then they also said the remodeled building will be known in the future as Tavern on the Green. And, you know, within the average. Within reach of the average purse was sort of the. The working, not slogan. But just, you know, they wanted to make it affordable. It wouldn't turn out, you know, it would end up being, I guess, for the time, a pretty expensive restaurant, I think once it hit the 60s and 70s. But we'll get there now. It's, you know, it's a New York restaurant, so it's not cheap, but it's not like some super, super expensive place.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I was surprised to see that. I read a 2014 restaurant review when it opened up again in its current incarnation, and they were talking about, like, $30 main dishes. Yeah, that is not bad. No, I mean, that's why any city.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, exactly.

[Chuck Bryant]

I was. Yeah, Surprised to hear that. But I found an old menu from maybe the 50s. They were selling martinis for, like, 85 cents. Not on sale. This was not a happy hour price. This was their regular menu. Yeah, yeah, I know. Can you imagine how much trouble we would get into?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, exactly. It's just get the change purse out and live your life. So one part of the announcement then said this. The park Department will not undertake the management of the restaurant, but will let it, as in, lease it to an outside concessionaire by public bidding. And that started sort of a very unusual arrangement where in New York City, we'd be the landlord of Tavern on the Green, and people would bid for the contracts. And not only bid for the contracts, but pay a pretty hefty licensing fee to do so.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's a big one, too. They would pay in incense like myrrh and gold coin as tribute to the city.

[Josh Clark]

Didn't believe that one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Good. So they seem to. The city of New York also seems to have gotten some free labor out of the deal from the federal government because the Civil Works Admin, which was a federal agency during the Depression that put out of work Americans to work and like, revamping infrastructure, you know, all the stuff we do today. They actually converted the sheepfold to the Tavern on the Green. They paved the place where the sheep used to eat with flagstones. So it was converted to an outdoor dining area. You could also dance there. People wouldn't look at you weird if you did. And because it seems to have been an outdoor dining venue only in its first incarnation in the 30s, it was. Dave helped us with this, and he tried to do some digging, and I think he's right that it was open only during the summer because it was too cold to eat outside in the winter in New York.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And they called it Tavern on the Green because New York had a rich tradition of taverns in their past in the 1700s, they had more taverns per capita than any city in the world. And something else called pleasure gardens were popular in the 18th century where you could have a drink and do some dancing in a very pastoral park like setting. And so tavern on the green was kind of a throwback to, like, hey, a throwback to the days of the 18th century.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And I read a little more on it. I think on curbed or I think it was curbed where they were talking about how those taverns were. Those pleasure gardens often sprouted from taverns. So taverns played a really big role on creating green space. Even as far back as the 18th century. Like, that's how much New York was starving for green space, that you would have to like, hang out at a tavern to do it. So I thought that was pretty cool. As a nod to that tradition.

[Josh Clark]

Well, their paved space was covered in horse crap, so I imagine green space was a nice respite, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And if you brought a horse to the tavern, people would get really mad.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, man. Can you imagine?

[Chuck Bryant]

You want to take a break?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's a great setup. And then we'll pick back up in the 1930s right after this.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hey, come on in.

[American Express Representative]

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

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[American Express Representative]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Josh Clark]

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[Chuck Bryant]

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[Josh Clark]

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

Learning stuff with Joshua and Charles.

[Chuck Bryant]

Stuff you should know. So the whole thing started in the 30s when they converted the sheepfold into the Tavern on the Green. And it was eventually like it didn't last for very long as a tavern. Or maybe this was during the winter Chuck. It was taken over by the headquarters of the city Patrol corps during the 40s. During World War II, a lot of the police officers around America went off to war. They still need police back in America. So they got volunteers actually from the people who were still in the country. And apparently they made their headquarters at Tavern on the Green. And then in 1943, things really started to swing. I think it was kind of a, an unusual, peculiar place. Up until this point in 1943, it like really starts to become Tavern on the Green as we understand it today.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Cause you know, New York grew from the south upward and this was way up at 66 67th Street. So yeah, it might have taken a while for that to become legitimized. But yeah, 43 is when it really kind of started the, I was about to say nonstop operation as restaurant. But as we'll see, that would be interrupted later on as well. But it's at this point that it became year round, open, dancing, dining, cocktailing, drinking three shots of gin for 85 cents, I guess. And it was doing pretty good. It was one of the most popular restaurants. In the 1950s. They expanded it from 10,000 square feet to more than double to 21,000, including the very famous Elm Tree Room, which they built around one of the famous live elm trees and including the indoor and outdoor space, they could seat more than or up to 1200 guests.

[Chuck Bryant]

Wow, that's a lot of people.

[Josh Clark]

A lot of folks.

[Chuck Bryant]

I looked all over for a picture of that elm tree room with the elm tree. There's a real dearth of vintage photos of Tavern on the Green. You'd think they'd be all over the Internet, but they're not.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And I'm sure you ran into what I did, which is tons of articles about that other elm right next to the outdoor dining that was recently cut down.

[Chuck Bryant]

I didn't see that. No, they cut down an elm tree, huh?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it was a 160 year old Elm. And I think that it was like this summer that had some kind of blight and, you know, unfortunately they had to take it down, but that was not, I don't think the elm from the elm Tree room.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. Okay, good.

[Josh Clark]

Pretty sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

So by 1950, the Tavern on the Green was enough on the map as far as, like, like nightlife in the United States went. Like, people, like popular culture was well enough aware of Tavern on the Green that they were able to sell a live album called Dancing at the Tavern on the Green to Milt Saunders and his orchestra. And if you see the. Did you see the COVID of that thing? Oh, man, it is. They might as well just stamp the numbers 1950 on the COVID and left it at that. It's pretty great. But that was like they sold that record because people out who couldn't make a Tavern on the Green would want to buy that and impress their friends.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, totally. This is where they first started wrapping the trees with those white lights, which is one of the sort of signature Tavern on the Green things.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I saw there are up to 10 miles of lights now.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I mean, I will say this. Spoiler alert for my ultimate review. It is a very beautiful place to dine.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I believe that still.

[Josh Clark]

In 56, a very interesting thing happened in its history when Robert Moses found himself up against some Manhattan mommies when he said, hey, I need a bigger parking lot, so I'm going to use this half acre over here. That, sure, there are a lot of kids that like playing over there, but we need some parking. And the moms took it very seriously. And they got their kids informed. A human barricade to block bulldozers got in a real fight with Moses. He built a fence to try and keep them out. The moms got an injunction, and uncharacteristically, Moses backed down and abandoned that and set aside $50,000 for a new playground that's still there today.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the West 67th street adventure playground, which if you see like vintage photos of it from the 60s, there were like mounds made of stone that like I could just see a kid slipping on and cracking his head open with like, they looked really dangerous, but I think they've kind of converted them into something a little more safe today. But yeah, it's really neat that the tradition of playgrounds that generation after generation of kids have played on.

[Josh Clark]

Totally.

[Chuck Bryant]

So the first notable restaurateur that took over. I think the first restaurateurs that took over was in the 40s and they owned the Claremont Inn and it was a super stuffy, well heeled dining place on the Hudson. They're the first notable ones. But the first actual restaurateur who people had already heard of, his name was Joe Baum. And this is in the 60s that he took over the lease of Tavern on the Green. And he was known as The Cecil B. DeMille of restaurateurs, which was really saying something in the 60s.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And for good reason. He ran not only Tavern on the Green, but the Windows of the World atop the World Trade center, eventually the Rainbow Room, the world famous Rainbow Room and the Four Seasons, which at the time when this dude, when Joe Baum was running these, they were the four highest grossing restaurants in Manhattan and they were all his. Yeah, it's remarkable.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I mean, that's a Cecil B. DeMille type.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And if you don't know who that is, look him up, Right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So he did a really good job of putting it on the map. And like we said, you know, by 1950 it was already, you know, part of popular culture. But I think this guy really turned it into something genuinely special for the first time. But I think most people who know about the history of Tavern on the Green would agree that it didn't really become like a gem of a restaurant, bejeweled even, until Warner Leroy came along in, I think, 1974.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And he came along at a good time because through the 60s and 70s it was doing okay, but it started to feel a little bit dated. And then by the time the 70s rolled around, Central park had become, I don't know how legitimately dangerous it was, but it became dangerous enough to where it was sort of part of the national punchline as far as like, yeah, go to Central park if you want to get mugged.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

That kind of thing. And so, you know, the restaurant fell on harder times and Joe Baume was calling it The Tavern in the red. And in 1974, like he said, Warner Leroy took over. He's a former theater director and this guy had a. To say he had a flair is sort of understating things. He ran a bar for a while called Maxwell's Plum.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, my God. Have you seen pictures of that?

[Josh Clark]

God, Just gorgeous restaurant.

[Chuck Bryant]

Just heaven.

[Josh Clark]

Maybe over the top. I don't know about gaudy or not. I mean, I think it looks like an amazing place to have a. Have a martini. But it did get some, like, bad reviews for just how sort of kaleidoscopic and gaudy it was.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did you see the picture of the actual bar? Bar?

[Josh Clark]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, my God. Dude, it looked just amazing. But also the dining room, it was just cool too. Like they had low ceilings with Tiffany lit, Tiffany plated glass hanging down or covering them. It's just amazing. Yeah, Yeah. I loved Maxwell's Plum. I would have loved it too. It turns out also Cary Grant, Warren Beatty, Barbra Streisand, they all loved Maxwell Plum. All the best people.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

And one of the things that that Warner Leroy was known for, that he made his name for at Maxwell's Plum was having a really eclectic menu that was also not exclusionary. He wanted to make sure that basically anybody could come and like enjoy a meal at his place. And he also didn't have a dress code either. That was a big one too. He wanted you to just feel comfortable. So he had on Maxwell Plum's menu everything from Iranian caviar to hamburgers, I believe.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. There's a place in Atlanta. What is the name of it? I haven't been there, but the theme of the restaurant is that it's got like five or six different distinct cuisines. And that's like what it's known for. And it's even in the name of the restaurant. I can't remember what it's called.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, Six Cuisines over on West Peach Street.

[Josh Clark]

That's a good one.

[Chuck Bryant]

Thanks.

[Josh Clark]

You got me. I can't remember. Anyway, I'll look it up and let you know.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, please do. Let me know.

[Josh Clark]

But you're right. So Maxwell's Plum was kind of a wacky place. He took over Tavern on the Green and he brought that same kind of flashiness there. He had a quote where he said a restaurant is a fantasy kind of living theater in which diners are the most important members of the cast. It's one of the few creations that appeal to all of the senses and one with which I can create my own world. So he spent 10 million bucks on a restaurant he doesn't own.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Renovating this thing to, you know, in his own sort of flashy style.

[Chuck Bryant]

So did you see that New Yorker review that I sent you?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did you see them describing what they, what they did on opening day in 1976?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So I say take it, man.

[Josh Clark]

Well, I don't have it in front of me. Can you take it?

[Chuck Bryant]

Sure. So they had the world's largest Sunday 7250 pounds of Neapolitan ice cream. There was a nine liter bottle of champagne that had been flown over from France. It had its own first class seat on Air France. And then there was a 16 foot model of Central park as a cake. This is what Warner Leroy did. Yeah, he. I also saw that he was known for wearing taffeta suits or sequin suits. So yeah, he was flashy to the, to the nines. He was also the son of the legendary producer of the wizard of Oz, Mervyn leroy, which explains Warner leroy's daughter's name.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, is it Dorothy?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, that'd be great. No, her name is Jennifer Oz Leroy.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, right. Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's called family tradition right there.

[Josh Clark]

I really thought it would be Dorothy.

[Chuck Bryant]

It kind of should have been Dorothy.

[Josh Clark]

Red Shoes Leroy or what's the witch in Wicked?

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know.

[Josh Clark]

We went and saw Wicked. What? Euphaba. Euphaba. Euphaba.

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't know.

[Josh Clark]

That's what Emily went as for Halloween. Anyway. The green witch from Wicked. That would have been a good name too.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's the Wicked Witch of the West, I think.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, but she had a name. Chandeliers were brought in. He brought in 15 chefs from France. He brought the chandeliers in straight from India and then built the very famous, some may say infamous, Crystal Room, which was a very sort of over the top room full of crystals. It was made of glass. That was the building. If you've seen the very first Ghostbusters, when Rick Moranis runs up and bangs on the window before getting attacked, that is the Crystal Room. And that's the part that I couldn't figure out. Like the room I ate in was all glass as well. And I think it was just a re. Sort of a different version of what that was.

[Chuck Bryant]

Exactly. Yes. They completely altered it for sure. It wasn't like it was in the 80s where it was like in its heyday. It was also in other movies, Arthur.

[Josh Clark]

One of my favorites.

[Chuck Bryant]

It was in Beaches, the scene where they win that dance contest against the gangsters that are chasing Them, Yeah, ton of movies. Yeah, it's really a well known dining room, but yeah, it's not there anymore. And one of the reasons why is because over the years, Warner Leroy's taste started to kind of seem a little tacky.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So. Yeah, but I think now if they had just preserved it, people, I think more people would flock to it just because of the vintage thing, you know?

[Josh Clark]

Well, now they would, because, yeah, that kind of campy, kitschy thing is appreciated, but at the time, not everyone appreciated it. Semi recently, I guess, when it reopened, they kind of look back and a guy named Pete Wells, a former restaurant critic for the New York Times, described that original Crystal Room as a wedding cake palace as imagined by a six year old princess with a high fever.

[Chuck Bryant]

That is great. And if you want to read great turns of phrase, just read restaurant reviews. They are so cruel, but in the funniest ways. And that, that whole, that whole review from 2014 is just hilarious, but also like you just feel bad at the same time for laughing at it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, totally.

[Chuck Bryant]

So under Warner Leroy's steerage, like this is when Tavern on the Green became like the place where Patrick Bateman would want like a seat. And apparently the managers made pretty good money on the side accepting bribes to seat people in the Crystal Room. It was like the place to be in not just the 80s, but also through the 90s too. So the whole place was riding high. As a matter of fact, I think in the 90s, it was the highest grossing independent restaurant in the United States. Tavern on the Green West.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. They had revenues annually of more than 40 million bucks, seating more than 600,000 diners a year, which is a staggering number of people. He got a pretty good deal. It was one of these things where when he came in the Central park was kind of dangerous. And like I said, the restaurant was on hard times. So he was really in the driver's seat as far as saying, hey, give me a pretty good deal. Mayor Ed Koch. And he was pretty desperate, the mayor was, and the city was. So they let him build that Crystal Room without getting the necessary permit, which was apparently pretty expensive. And they said you only have to pay 1.2 million for the license fee, which apparently is a lot cheaper than the arrangement he had with Baum.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And also apparently the Crystal Room expansion was illegal under municipal codes, and they looked the other way with them not getting a building permit to build it. Like they really were sinking a lot of faith into Tavern on the Green, bringing in a lot of revenue for the city. Not just through the licensing fees. But you know, people traveling to New York in part to go dine at Tavern on the Green. That was like the way that it was viewed.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Should we take another break?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

All right. We'll take another break and we'll come back and continue through the 80s and 90s right after this.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hey, come on in.

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[Josh Clark]

BO Another fact of Tavern on the Green at the time was that leroy had a staff that was not unionized. So he paid pretty low wages for a long, long time. It took a walkout in 1989 over that low pay for the workers to finally get with the union, the New York Hotel and Motels Trade Council. But they were rolling in dough at the time so they could afford those wages, and they were doing pretty well until 2001. First of all, Warner Leroy died very sadly in February of that year. Then 911 happened, which put a dent on New York City as a whole. And that's when Jennifer Oz, Leroy Oz, Dorothy Green Witch Leroy had taken over. But it just wasn't happening. They just could not recapture that magic. The restaurant was never very well reviewed for the food, and it was starting to kind of matter because people weren't going just for the experience and food was just a much bigger deal. And there were plenty of great restaurants by then. So the restaurant just kind of fell off. By the mid 2000s.

[Chuck Bryant]

I saw in Town and Country magazine, the go to source for facts about New York nightlife. They said that the New York times reviewed over 23 years or something like that. The New York Times reviewed Tavern on the Green five times, and it never got more than one out of four stars. Yeah, that's mean. Like that sounds like a vendetta almost.

[Josh Clark]

You know, I do think it was. Had a bit of a bullseye on it. I'm not saying, like, the food was ever, like, great and it was just really unfairly reviewed, but I do think it was definitely a restaurant that critics wanted to kind of poke a hole in.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's just mean.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I know.

[Chuck Bryant]

So I think in 2009, there was a lawsuit in 2008 against the management for sexual and racial harassment of female, black and Hispanic employees. It's not a good look for your restaurant. And then the next year, the parks department said, we're kind of done with the leroy family. I think you guys have run your course. And they decided not to renew their 20 year license with the family. And so they announced that they would be taking bids and probably assumed that this was going to be the revamping, regeneration, a revitalization of Tavern on the Green. And it turns out that no one would go near it. They were like, I don't know, man. That place has a pretty bad reputation and it's going to cost a lot to bring it back to its glory. And it sat unused for five years, I think.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. From 2010 to 2014, it was five years. Not a restaurant. And like you said, it was just. It was a big risk because it was a big, expensive undertaking. It had never had a great reputation. I think it was always the target of critics. And so no one would go in. I think they tried a couple of times. There was a guy named Dean Pol who ran the Central Park Boathouse restaurant. He tried to negotiate a good deal with the trade union. Couldn't do it for six months, so he backed out. Other bidders were scared away. While it was vacant, Mayor Bloomberg said, well, let's make it a gift shop. It was an information center and tourist shop. There were a lot of people that were like, just this once, sort of at least great. I don't know if a great restaurant, but great New York City landmark has now been turned into a tchotchke shop where some of the complaints. So finally in 2012, the city said, all right, Philly, step in. We love you down there. New York City light. What have you got for us? And Jim Caiola and David Salama from Philly got the bid to reopen the tavern by investing $10 million to sort of get rid of Leroy's flashy thing and say, let's make. Let's take it back to the old school 19th century tavern look.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And they really did. The actual, like, bar, tavern area they did a great job with. Apparently they brought in architects who were good with discovering the actual historic part of any structure. And they did that. They stripped it down to its cathedral beams, the original ones in the ceiling. So I'll bet that looked pretty cool.

[Josh Clark]

It does.

[Chuck Bryant]

The bar was like, studded with, like, brass nail heads. Is that correct?

[Josh Clark]

Yep. I saw brass nail heads.

[Chuck Bryant]

It's just like in the original stone fireplace, the original copper gutters, like, they were all like, just like they were just brought to the fore. And so the tavern vibe of the tavern itself, from what I read, they just nailed it. It was the Crystal Room revamp that I saw the most criticized.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, really?

[Chuck Bryant]

I don't remember who said it. It might have been Pete Wells who said that it resembles an all day casual dining option at a family friendly resort in Florida.

[Josh Clark]

Disagree.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay, well, you disagree with Pete Wells, not me. I'm just reading a quote. No, no, I found pithy.

[Josh Clark]

No, I know it is. It's. That is pithy because. Because that room, it is a. It is a glass room that looks out onto the courtyard with those lights. It's a wonderful room to dine in Gotcha.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe it was because the serving staff has to wear Bermuda shorts and golf shirts tucked in.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, the Flamingo Kid.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

That bar area is gorgeous, though.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I'll bet.

[Josh Clark]

The two guys from Philly, Keola and Salama were, some say, cronies. The city sweetened the deal a bit. Bloomberg put a lot of pressure on the trade unions to give them a two year break from having to sign a labor contract and to defer that licensing fee for five years, which is a lot of money. It turns out that Kayola's sister was married to, and I think still is, to a guy named Kevin Sheeke, who was Bloomberg's former deputy mayor and an executive at Bloomberg Software Company. But he was like, that's all just coincidence, right?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, that's a couple of coincidences layered on top of each other.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's New York for you.

[Chuck Bryant]

So one of the big parts about the reopening in 2014, which New York was excited about, I mean, this was an icon that had been shut down and no one was sure when or if it was going to come back. One of the things they did was they went through and took all of those amazing decorations that Warner Leroy had installed and they auctioned them off. Like you could get silverware dinnerware. Oh, cool. Some of the original copper weather vanes they auctioned off for some reason. Those chandeliers from the Indian Maharaja. You could buy those too. It sounded like it was a heck of an auction. And they actually held it in the Crystal Room.

[Josh Clark]

Wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I would have liked to have known about that.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I'd buy a fork.

[Chuck Bryant]

For sure.

[Josh Clark]

For sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

So they opened in 2014 and immediately every single outlet in New York panned the food. Like, just panned it.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Here they go again, some quotes. Comatose potato salad, roasted quail. That's as dry as a week old English muffin. Yeah, they're all just so pithy.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. New York magazine said that the salad is the kind that you would get at a third rate country club. Which Tavern on the Green pretty much.

[Josh Clark]

Is, I know, pretty bad.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not even just a country club. A third rate country club. I mean, they're just being mean. I haven't seen any recent reviews. I know that the executive chef who was running the place when it opened, Katie Sparks, she left after, I think, like six months or something like that. And from the restaurant reviews I read, they were saying, like, it's kind of understandable. Like they're creating these really extravagant dishes, at least on paper, for seatings of like 700 people. And it's really hard to get well made hot food out to tables when you're serving 700 people at a seating. So they were at least a little bit understanding. But I haven't read a recent review of Tavern on the Green and its food.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

So we're gonna have to rely on you, I guess, is what I'm saying. Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Well, here's my review. It was fine. It wasn't like the food was. It wasn't like the food was bad. It was like, oh, this is gross. But it's, you know, it's just. I mean, I'm looking at the menu here. We can read through some of these things. Appetizers, there's a crab cake. There's a calamari salad. There's a country salad. Honey roasted figs. That sounds pretty good.

[Chuck Bryant]

Sure. Steak of Dorset sheep.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, man. Burrata with hearth roasted grape tomatoes. It's all pretty standard stuff. And then if you move on to the mains, you've got some diver sea scallops, Scottish salmon for 38 bucks. Grilled whole fish for 46 bucks. Rack of lamb. You know, fairly pedestrian, I think. I. If I'm not mistaken, I had the lemon thyme chicken under a brick.

[Chuck Bryant]

Did you get to keep the brick?

[Josh Clark]

Didn't get to keep the brick. It was a real Tavern on the Green brick from the old Sheep's Fold or Sheep's hold that came with blistered green beans, mashed potatoes, and a jus for 35 bucks. And it was like, it was pretty good. Chicken, okay, but, you know, truffle fries, shrimp cocktail. It's. The menu is not. Not third rate country club. But I didn't go in there expecting, like, New York's finest meal. I went there for the experience. We were in Central park and that, you know, you can walk right over there. I'd always wanted to go. It was a bucket list thing. And now I can say I've been. And I would very much recommend to have that experience. If it's something that, like, piques your interest. If it's like, I've always wanted to try Tavern on the Green, like, go try it for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. I think that's how New York magazine concluded their review. They're like, it's a once in a lifetime thing.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, go. Go once.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's pretty much what they said. And they even said if that. So, yeah, hopefully it's gotten a little better. It sounds like it's gotten better. Was the food warm?

[Josh Clark]

The food was warm. The Service was good.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. Those are two things that definitely got called out in those 2014 reviews.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, my martini was good.

[Chuck Bryant]

Nice. Was it 85 cents?

[Josh Clark]

It's definitely touristy. Like, I didn't expect the ghost of John Lennon and Warren Beatty to come wandering in. So it feels a little touristy, but it was good. It was fine. I recommend if you've never been to New York and you think and you're into the touristy thing, go for sure. If you go to New York a ton and you've never been, like, give it a shot for one of your meals. You can always go eat somewhere better the next night.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. Okay. But it's cool.

[Josh Clark]

It's worth going to. It's kind of like a Russian tea room. I've never been there, but I want to try it. Just. Haven't you been there?

[Chuck Bryant]

No, I've never been. I think that was also a Warner Leroy joint.

[Josh Clark]

Okay. I thought you had been there for some reason, but, like, I want to try that out just to sort of say that I've been there and know what that experience is like.

[Chuck Bryant]

Same here. I've got some dining to do.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. Well, you got anything else about Tavern on the Green?

[Josh Clark]

I do not.

[Chuck Bryant]

Well, thanks for sharing, Chuck. That was very nice. Sure. And since Chuck said sure, as everyone knows that just unlock listener mail.

[Josh Clark]

You know, in lieu of listener mail, we're going to do another shout out to our friends at co ed because they have a very special thing going. You've heard us talk about co ed before. They're our friends that run the nonprofit down in Guatemala to help break the cycle of poverty through education. And they do really, really great stuff. And they're doing a special stuff you should know, sort of co branded, co.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hosted Stuff youf Should Know Ex Co Ed.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So let's talk about our call to action, huh?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. So they have a program going called the Cooperative, which you can join. You just. You donate $20 a month, and they pool it all together to sponsor students in their Rise Youth development program. And what they're shooting for in 2025 is sponsoring 1100 students plus. And what these kids will do will start school in rural Guatemala, and this would be their biggest class ever. So they're really hoping that Stuff youf Should Know listeners will come through and add to the already donated $1.3 million in contributions to Co ed just from Stuff you Should Know listeners alone.

[Josh Clark]

Amazing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And here's the incentive, too. If you set up your gift by giving Tuesday, which is December 3rd you can get a chance to have a virtual hangout with us on Zoom. We do that every year. It's a lot of fun. We hang out with a handful of folks on Zoom and you know, we can attest to Co Ed. They're a great organization. We know them personally. We went to Guatemala and saw the work first, firsthand and they're, they are walking the walk down there for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And if you want to know more about the whole program, we did a two parter on Co Ed and where we went to Guatemala and you can hear Jerry give a heartfelt speech in it.

[Josh Clark]

That's right, the real Jerry.

[Chuck Bryant]

So yeah, go forth and go to cooperative4education.orgSYSK and donate 20 bucks a month. And we appreciate it. Co Ed appreciates it and the kids in Guatemala appreciate it too.

[Josh Clark]

Great.

[Chuck Bryant]

And if you want to send us an email, you can send it off to stuffpodcastyheartradio.com.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show. This is Tracy V. Wilson from Stuff youf Missed in History Class. Do you like podcasts, music and audiobooks? Because when you subscribe to Amazon Music Unlimited, you get all three in one app. Imagine listening to your favorite podcasts and music on the go to work, school, the gym, or better yet, vacation. Now imagine being on vacation with your favorite audiobook from Audible, then listening to a new one every month from a huge selection of popular titles. That sounds like a pretty good vacation, right? Audible is now included on Amazon Music Unlimited. Download the Amazon Music app now to start listening terms apply.

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