What was the purpose of USAID?

Summary

Summary of "What was the purpose of USAID?" - Stuff You Should Know

Release Date: July 3, 2025
Hosts: Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant
Podcast: Stuff You Should Know by iHeartPodcasts

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1. Introduction: The End of an Era for USAID

In the episode titled "What was the purpose of USAID?", hosts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant delve into the recent dissolution of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) as an independent entity. They discuss the abrupt absorption of USAID into the State Department, a move that marked the end of an influential agency in American foreign aid. Chuck highlights the emotional response from prominent figures, stating, “Yesterday, June 30th will have been the kind of the final day for most USAID employees” (02:33). The hosts underscore the significance of this shift, emphasizing that USAID’s quick termination was neither gradual nor considerate, but rather a decisive cut that has profound implications.

2. Historical Context and Formation of USAID

Josh and Chuck trace the origins of USAID back to its establishment in 1961 by President John F. Kennedy. The agency was created as a tool for soft power during the Cold War, aiming to counter Soviet influence by fostering democratic and economic development worldwide. Chuck remarks, “The US Historically is the single humanitarian, the largest single humanitarian aid donor in the world” (06:18), highlighting USAID’s pivotal role in American foreign policy. They connect USAID’s inception to earlier efforts like the Marshall Plan of 1947, which sought to rebuild Europe post-World War II while curbing the spread of communism.

3. Funding and Impact of USAID

The hosts break down the allocation of U.S. foreign aid, with USAID's portion constituting approximately 0.5% of the federal budget (09:17). Chuck uses a metaphor to illustrate the budget, stating, “the budget for USAID is these two credit cards stacked on each other” (05:42). They explain that foreign aid encompasses humanitarian assistance (25%), development assistance (60%), and security funding (15%). Josh adds, “But USAID's portion is 0.5%” (09:29), emphasizing that USAID operates within a modest segment of the overall budget. Despite the relatively small financial commitment, USAID has had a substantial global impact.

4. Success Stories: Transformative Outcomes of USAID

Josh and Chuck highlight several key successes attributed to USAID:

• Green Revolution: In the 1960s, USAID funded Dr. Norman Borlaug’s campaign to modernize agricultural practices in Asia, saving approximately a quarter of a billion lives from starvation (19:06).

• Eradication of Smallpox: Partnering with the CDC, USAID’s anti-smallpox campaign eradicated the disease, leaving only two remaining samples in Siberia and Atlanta (21:26).

• President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR): Initiated by President George W. Bush, PEPFAR has been instrumental in saving millions of lives by combating AIDS globally (19:53).

• Tuberculosis and Malaria Initiatives: USAID’s efforts in fighting tuberculosis have saved an estimated 58 million lives since 2000, while the President's Malaria Initiative has reduced malaria deaths by 48%, saving nearly 12 million lives (22:11, 22:17).

Josh underscores the magnitude of these achievements: “One of the first things USA does is save a quarter of a billion lives from starvation” (19:53).

5. Controversies and Criticisms: USAID's Flaws

Despite its successes, USAID has faced significant criticisms:

• Afghanistan Aid Mismanagement: USAID invested over $100 billion in Afghanistan, with about 40% funding ending up with government officials, warlords, and insurgents. Additionally, efforts to transition Afghan farmers from opium production led to a doubling of opium cultivation in Kandahar Province between 2013 and 2015 (24:33, 25:48).

• Chemonix Contract Debacle: A $9.5 billion contract awarded to Chemonix for medical supply delivery was fraught with mismanagement and false reporting, tarnishing USAID’s reputation (25:48).

• Alan Gross Incident: In 2009, USAID subcontractor Alan Gross was arrested in Cuba under false espionage charges while attempting to provide internet access to the Jewish community, leading to his detention and subsequent exchange for Cuban spies (26:57, 27:55).

Chuck summarizes, “That's another stain on their reputation” (25:48), acknowledging that while USAID has achieved much, these controversies highlight vulnerabilities within the agency.

6. Public Perception and Budget Realities

The discussion shifts to public perception versus reality regarding USAID’s budget. A Pew Research poll from 2019 indicates that Americans overestimate foreign aid spending, believing it to be around 25% of the federal budget, whereas it is actually closer to 1% (39:03). Josh points out, “They think we spend about 25% or a quarter of our national budget on foreign aid” (39:21), illustrating a significant misperception. This disconnect fuels political debates, with some advocating for cuts based on inaccurate information, potentially undermining USAID’s beneficial programs.

7. Consequences of Dissolving USAID

Josh and Chuck explore the potential fallout from USAID’s dissolution:

• Impact on Global Democracy: USAID’s support for pro-democracy groups and initiatives will be lost, potentially allowing autocratic regimes to strengthen their grip without international oversight (41:00).

• China’s Rising Influence: With USAID’s retreat, China stands to fill the void, having already invested $1 trillion in foreign aid over the past 12 years compared to the U.S.'s $3.8 trillion since World War II. This shift could enhance China’s global standing and undermine American influence (42:36).

Chuck warns, “This is going to leave a vacuum around the world in foreign aid that China in particular is going to be happy to step in and fill” (42:36), highlighting strategic concerns for U.S. global leadership.

8. Balancing the Narrative: Highs and Lows

While acknowledging USAID’s successes, the hosts emphasize the importance of a balanced perspective. They address some criticisms pointing out that USAID has been involved in less savory activities, such as using foreign aid as leverage in political maneuvers or inadvertently supporting corrupt regimes. However, they also note instances where USAID has responsibly managed crises, such as cutting off funding to abusive organizations in Kenya that facilitated child sex abuse (29:01).

Josh encourages listeners to form their own opinions, stating, “Don't just listen to us. We were just sharing our own opinions on it” (06:41).

9. Conclusion: The Future of U.S. Foreign Aid

As USAID transitions into the State Department, Josh and Chuck ponder the future of American foreign aid. They express hope that the new "America First" agency will either build upon USAID’s existing frameworks or establish new ones to continue U.S. influence and humanitarian efforts globally. They caution against the potential negative repercussions of this shift, including weakened global democracy and increased Chinese dominance.

The episode concludes with a call for listeners to stay informed and critically evaluate the implications of dismantling such a pivotal agency.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "Yesterday, June 30th will have been the kind of the final day for most USAID employees." – Chuck Bryant (02:33)
• "The budget for USAID is these two credit cards stacked on each other." – Chuck Bryant (05:42)
• "One of the first things USA does is save a quarter of a billion lives from starvation." – Josh Clark (19:53)
• "That's another stain on their reputation." – Chuck Bryant (25:48)
• "They think we spend about 25% or a quarter of our national budget on foreign aid." – Josh Clark (39:21)
• "This is going to leave a vacuum around the world in foreign aid that China in particular is going to be happy to step in and fill." – Chuck Bryant (42:36)

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Final Thoughts Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant provide a comprehensive examination of USAID's purpose, achievements, and challenges. Balancing commendation with critique, they encourage listeners to appreciate the agency's significant global contributions while remaining aware of its shortcomings. The episode serves as a critical reflection on the future of American foreign aid and its broader geopolitical implications.

Transcript

[Ebony]

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[Josh Clark]

Welcome to Stuff youf Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. And Jerry's here too. And this is Stuff youf Should Know, another timely, topical edition of Stuff youf Should Know. Like I just said.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right, as it turns out, weirdly super timely, because as of this recording date Yesterday, this is July 1st. Yesterday, June 30th will have been the kind of the final day for most USAID employees. I saw a headline yesterday in the New York Times where Bono cries. Yeah, Bono probably did cry. But people like President George W. Bush and President Obama and Bono all got together and said, hey, USAID did so much good work. We're very proud of the work we did. George W. Bush in particular, was proud of the program that started under his watch, the President's emergency plan for AIDS relief that he initiated that saved 25 million people's lives. President Obama said, I wish I could do a good Obama. He said ending USAID would go down as a colossal mistake. Ending your presence in your programs out in the world. And this was directly to employees. They did like video messages. That's why it's in that person.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, I think they actually had a video call too, for them.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Ending your presence in your programs out in the world hurts the most vulnerable and it hurts the United States, to many people around the world, USAID is the United States. And then I gotta read Vano's quote. Cause you know, why not?

[Josh Clark]

Before you do, I just want to say, like you nailed the Obama with the.

[Chuck Bryant]

In the middle of it, Bono said it's not left wing rhetoric to feel hungry, heal the sick. If this isn't murder, I don't know what is.

[Josh Clark]

That was a pretty good Bono.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it was more of a Larry Mullen Jr. But we say all that because I'm not really sure whether or not we should speak in the past tense on this with a lot of this stuff.

[Josh Clark]

Well, today's the day. So like you said, yesterday was the last day that USAID existed as an independent agency in the US Federal government. Today's the day that it got absorbed into the State Department. And I believe also today the State Department Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the former senator from Florida, announced that there is going to be some sort of new foreign aid agency called America first, which is a mind bender. Is it really? Yes. That's funny. So that it's not fully going away. It's just going to be restructured. They're going to be doing it differently. And it's really hard to say, it's really hard to get across how big of a deal it is that something like USAID specifically is being done away with wholesale. Just rolled up, mothball. Done really abruptly, really quickly. It's not being kind of slowly rolled back or anything like that. It just got its head cut off.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right, right, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Within six months after it being announced, it was just done. And it's, it's of course because we're talking about the United States. It's a political hot button issue. Everything is a political hot button issue, but this one should not be divided between the left and the right. Like this is how America influenced the entire world for decades. Some of it was really bad, some of it was really good. But I feel like me personally, it needed a lot of restructuring. But I think it was a good infrastructure, a good apparatus that just needed to be retooled. I think it was a little ham fisted, to say the least, to just stop it immediately. That's my take on it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I agree. And for a second there a few minutes ago, I thought you were gonna say Marco Rubio said it was now called America. Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Is that a Team America reference?

[Chuck Bryant]

I think, yeah. That was from that movie, right?

[Josh Clark]

I think so. I hope so. I think it was too.

[Chuck Bryant]

I saw there was a. Who was it? There was a Democratic House member or senator the other day. That was as far as what you were talking about. And we're going to get into the numbers here and the history of everything. But he was talking about kind of what you were saying was like just kind of shuddering this. Guys, if the. If the budget of the United States is the height of the ceiling of this room, and it was a big room, he said, the budget for USAID is these two credit cards stacked on each other.

[Josh Clark]

Wow.

[Chuck Bryant]

And he said, there has been waste in there and there has been some fraud and we're gonna cover that stuff. Cause we like to be even handed. He said, and that's it at its worst. But at its best, you're shuttering something that costs so little money for us, that has saved tens of dozens of millions of lives of people. And not only just life saving, but as you'll see, just influence for people around the world to. Like Bono said, like, to some people around the world, USAID is America. And that's like, they're the people that came in and helped us when we were at our most dire. That's the United States.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, yeah. So hopefully we'll kind of get it across. If you're already mad, politically speaking, just settle down and listen. Because we're not approaching this from like a no, Obama's right kind of thing. It's like, just listen to this and make up your own mind. We're not gonna try to steer you. But we were just sharing our own opinions on it. We're allowed to have those because we're thinking, feeling human beings.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's right. All right, so the US Historically is the single humanitarian, the largest single humanitarian aid donor in the world. We supplied about 40% of humanitarian aid in 2024 as either the wealthiest or one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Foreign assistance falls into these broad categories. And again, this is all foreign assistance. USAID is within that, as we'll see. But humanitarian assistance is about 25% of it. And this is like, you know, medicine, food and shelter to save people after epidemics and disasters and famine. Development assistance is 60%. Those are programs installed to develop democratic nations economically, politically, socially. And then the last, smaller piece, smallest piece, is security funding, 15%. It's not a part of the US military. There are programs to help strengthen foreign militaries and foreign police to, you know, get their act together and instill some sort of rule of law where there might not be any.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, and we don't want to be Pollyannish about this. Like, USAID identified The police in training and outfitting and helping financially the police in different countries is like, the best way to tap into that local. That nation's like the pulse. Keeping your pulse on that nation's local stuff. Right. Because the police are the ones who, like, suppress riots and suppress demonstrations. They're the ones who arrest people. Like, bringing in the military is way too big of a deal. The police can do it. So USA definitely focused on training police. That was a big one, too. And that just kind of peels back the layer, because right now. Chuck, let me just say this, and I'll stop. There's a lot of really, like, sunny, glowing, like, really fairly not fully realistic talk about USAID and what it does. It does a lot of this stuff, but it leaves out a lot of the darker side. And I think you. You have to take it as the whole thing to fully understand its value in the world.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, absolutely. And that's our aim here. But if you're talking about Since World War II, we've distributed about $4 trillion in today dollars to foreign assistance, which is a lot of money. But like I mentioned earlier, with a little credit card metaphor that I ganked from that, Senator, as a percentage of our federal budget, foreign aid accounts for 1% of our total government spending, and.

[Josh Clark]

That'S all foreign aid. The USAID's portion is 0.5%. So, like, just. USAID has less than a percent of the federal budget. Just point that out.

[Chuck Bryant]

Two credit cards laying on the floor.

[Josh Clark]

You're right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Maybe credit card wasn't the best thing to use, like insurance card or something, or that probably wouldn't have been good either. Library card. How about that?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, don't talk about insurance. Yeah.

[Chuck Bryant]

Library cards are not controversial, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, not yet. A little bit controversial, sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

All right.

[Josh Clark]

Especially school libraries.

[Chuck Bryant]

Since 1961, most of this foreign aid has come through the. The USAID office because that's when it was established. The US Agency for International Development, created by John F. Kennedy. And the idea was, as we'll see, was to create what he called, or what everybody calls soft power around the world. Because it was a time during, as you'll see, during the Cold War, when the influences of the Soviet Union in China were worrisome and. And Kennedy saw the writing on the wall and was like, hey, I think, like, we need to get in there before other countries get in there with their communism and spread our message of democracy by helping assist them.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Which is like, totally in step with the containment policy of keeping communism in check and keeping it from Spreading rather than using the military every time. You could also basically, you know, grease some palms around the world. And these countries that were hanging in the balance in the Third World, you could sway them over the democracy side and they could become an ally and trading partner of the U.S. why not?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And you can trace the roots of this back to the Marshall plan, when in 1947, post World War II Secretary of State George Marshall said, hey, we gotta rebuild Europe and put a lot of money into that. I think it was about 175 billion in today dollars. And he claimed at the time that it was, quote, not directed against any country or doctrine, but against hunger, poverty, desperation and chaos, which is partly tr. But what was also true was the Marshall Plan was to stop the Soviets and stop Stalin from going in further to Europe and like we said, sort of plant the American flag over there in a way. And this was one of the tools. USAID was one of the tools, one of the bigger tools during the Cold War to establish our influence as like a country that's trying to do good.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, this was helped along. I think the Marshall Plan was 1947. Did you say that?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah.

[Josh Clark]

Like later on in the 50s, it was helped along by a couple of MIT economists, Walt Rostow and Max Milliken. And they basically said this Marshall Plan that we used to rebuild Europe and keep countries from falling into the hands of the Soviets and Communism. This is a good idea even outside of the context of rebuilding after World War. This should just be part of American policy.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And Kennedy liked this idea eventually so much. Senator Kennedy at the time would hire Walt Rostow as a policy advisor on his staff. And when he was elected president, he appointed him as his deputy national security advisor. And Kennedy before, you know, when he was a young congressman, he was not into foreign assistance. He was like, America first, we gotta help ourselves first. But then he went on a seven week congressional trip in 1951 to Pakistan, Israel, India, Malaysia, Thailand, Korea, Japan, and what is now Vietnam, French Indochina at the time. And he was like, you know what? I'm all for the military, but it can't just be a military exercise. We gotta have an economic stake in this and we gotta do that through foreign aid.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. There was also a book that helped change his mind a few years later, the Ugly American. It was published in 1958, it was a best seller. And essentially it was a fictionalized version of the experiences of the authors as diplomats in pre war Vietnam. And it almost satirizes American diplomacy at the time, which Was you had diplomats who were at parties with other diplomats in gated communities way far away from the, the people of the country they were trying to serve. And these guys argued, no, you need to immerse yourself in it. You need to learn the language. Like you have to like, find out what these people really need or else all you're doing is patronizing them and wasting money. And it had a huge impact on America in general. But also Kennedy, who is like, this is, this is my North Star here in guiding how foreign policy in America should go, and even took out a page in the New York Times, a full page ad saying, this is a great book. How was that?

[Chuck Bryant]

It was pretty good. This, you know, Shortly thereafter, in 1959, when Cuba falls to Castro, all of a sudden it's like, hey, this is literally happening right out outside our back door. So the time is now. He didn't create the idea for foreign aid. We had programs at the time, Food for Peace, the Development Loan fund and others. But Kennedy was the one in March of 1961 to wrap that all up, tie a bow on it and say, here, Congress, this is usaid and this is a new program along with the Peace Corps that we're creating, that the great ambitions that America should pursue. And Congress got on board.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. And one of the big things that he pushed for with the creation of USAID in particular was five year budgets.

[Chuck Bryant]

Ha. Good luck.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So foreign aid up to that point and then after that point, because he didn't get the five year budgets he was looking for, the USAID budget was tied to annual federal budgets. And so it was, you know, it suffered the vagaries of congressional fights over budgets that happened every year. But the point was, the reason Kennedy wanted a five year budget was because if, if his USAID people were going to these countries that were like, should we go communist or democratic, they, they needed to come to them and say, hey, you're sympathetic, sympathetic to democracy, you're running for president, here's what we can do for you that you can actually build a platform around because we're going to guarantee that you're going to get this funding X number of dollars for five years because we want this country to be a democracy and, and we want to make you the leader of the democracy any way we can. And Congress was still like, no, we're not going to do that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I feel like that's a good time for a break and we'll come back and talk about some successes of USAID over the years. Right after this.

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[Chuck Bryant]

All right, so we're back, and as promised, we're going to talk about some of the success stories of USAID over the years. More than half of our funding for USAID in the 1960s went towards something we talked about quite a bit over the years here and there called the Green Revolution, which was a campaign led by Dr. Norman Borlaug, a hero to many in history, to fight hunger in Asia by saying, hey, let's modernize your agricultural practices. Let's bring them into the new age with your irrigation techniques, fertilization techniques, how to rotate crops, getting you better crop yields, even when it's a drought going on. And he was very, very successful at this and changed the world. And this ran through usaid.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. So today's estimates put the number of lives that Norman Borlaug and the Green Revolution and USAID for overseas seeing this program saved was probably about a quarter of a billion people. So right out of the gate, one of the first things USA does is save a quarter of a billion lives from starvation. Yeah, that's good enough. But at the same time, Chairman Mao is pushing the great leap forward in China where he's completely restructuring the agricultural industry, taking a ton of peasant farmers, putting them in iron and steel factories, and drastically limiting the food supply so that 45 million Chinese citizens die in three years. So people were able to look around and be like, wow, this communist idea really didn't work. This USAID idea worked really well. Tell me a little more about usaid. And Chuck, I feel like I should also say it's just come to me. You may used to work for Peace Corps, not as a Peace Corps volunteer, but as like one of the people in the home office. And I told her we were recording on usaid, and she pointed out very quickly it's usaid. So we've been saying USAID this whole time. Apologies to everybody. I say we just keep saying usaid.

[Chuck Bryant]

I think most people say usaid, and I identify it as usaid. So I think that's fine.

[Josh Clark]

Okay, good. It's just Yumi who calls it usaid.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, no, no. I'm just saying I think we'll be forgiven because most people read that as USAID and they know what we're talking about.

[Josh Clark]

Gotcha.

[Chuck Bryant]

Okay. One of the ones I want to mention, well, I mentioned earlier the initiative launched by President Bush In 2003, the president's emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. And what a success that has been. But the one that really gets me is smallpox. This was a deadly disease in the 1960s that was killing kids all over the world, and we eradicated that, thanks to usaid. How's that?

[Josh Clark]

Very nice.

[Chuck Bryant]

Partnering with the CDC to establish an anti smallpox campaign in each country where it was a big, big problem. And they have saved over the past 11 years by completely eradicating smallpox, basically millions of lives every single year.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. And the only two places in the world where you can find smallpox on the planet today is in Siberia and Atlanta.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's right.

[Josh Clark]

Talking about saving lives not just from, like you said, PEPFAR and from smallpox, but the USAIDS taking on tuberculosis has saved an estimated 58 million lives since 2000. And I believe that estimate was either from 2017 or 2020. So it's probably higher than that by now. And then malaria, too. I think they estimate that since 2000, the President's Malaria Initiative under USAID has saved nearly 12 million lives. And that in countries where the President's Malaria Initiative exists, there's been a 48% decline in malaria deaths on average. So, like, they're literally saving actual lives by going in and being like, oh, this is a real problem. Let's fund the people who are working to combat this in the place that we're where it's a problem. And it's having these, like, demonstrable effects, like positive effects, like saving people's lives.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. And they had their little American flag patch on the whole time. People know exactly where it's coming from.

[Josh Clark]

That's right. They don't put that Canada flag on their backpack and lie to everyone.

[Chuck Bryant]

Man. That was even a thing when I traveled Europe in the mid-90s.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, for sure.

[Chuck Bryant]

This was a Canadian flag because they were like, we're not American. Please don't be fooled by my accent.

[Josh Clark]

Right, Exactly. I have no love for Bill Clinton. I don't even know who that is. Why would I even bring up Bill Clinton?

[Chuck Bryant]

We said we were gonna cover this evenhandedly. And there have been plenty of criticisms and controversies over the years with usaid, I guess. Which one should I talk about? How about this one? It's not a perfect program. There have been all kinds of what you would call a devil's bargain over the years trying to fight communism, One of which was, you know, we talked in the past about CIA engineered coups across the world to topple dictatorial regimes. Foreign assistance provided by US Aid was used a lot of times as a negotiating chip to basically win allies here and there. So that's, you know, maybe not the purest use of what it was set out to be.

[Josh Clark]

No, a good example of that is Afghanistan. USAID's involvement in Afghanistan after the US invaded is just widely considered a total disaster. Afghanistan received more than $100 billion in foreign aid from the United States, and something like 40% of it went directly to government officials, warlords, drug lords, insurgents who bought weapons with it and then fought the United States with it. Not a good look. And I found a statistic too, that over 15 years, USAID spent almost one and a half billion dollars just on helping Afghan farmers transition from opium production to anything but opium, essentially. And the opium farmers in Afghanistan said, thanks a lot for the money. Where is going to use this instead to expand our opium production as it stands. And between 2013 and 2015 in Kandahar Province alone, opium cultivation more than doubled like 119% in two years because of U.S. aid money, which was now going not just to insurgents, but to create the heroin supply in the United States.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, black eye on that one for sure. More recently, there was a company called Chemonix that was awarded the single largest contract ever from usaid. It was a nine and a half billion dollar contract. And the goal there was to streamline delivery worldwide of medical supplies, mosquito nets, contraceptives, vaccines, stuff like that. And it was very poorly managed by usaid. And Chemonix was involved with false reporting between them and their partners. And it was just a pretty big debacle. And USAID continued to pour money into it even as it was floundering, which again, another stain on their reputation, which we say all this stuff to fairly report, but also to point out that it makes it a really easy target when you can say we spent nine and a half billion dollars on this thing that was mismanaged. And, you know, fraud like that is definitely something to root out. You know, no one's saying like, that stuff's okay.

[Josh Clark]

And then, Chuck, there's one more terrible story of USAID dropping the ball that we just have to share.

[Chuck Bryant]

Can we take it away then?

[Josh Clark]

Well, there's a guy named Alan Gross who I guess was an IT dude who hired as a subcontractor for USAID to go to Cuba in 2009 and, and set up alternate access to the Internet for the small Jewish community in Cuba. There a few things. USAID was illegal in Cuba at the time, probably still is. The government controlled access to the Internet in Cuba probably still does. And the Jewish community in Cuba did not ask for alternate Internet access. It was just thrust upon them. So Alan Gross was discovered and arrested as a spy because USAID sent him in there. The guy barely even spoke Spanish from what I read. And the United States had to trade three Cuban actual spies that they'd had since the 90s to get Alan Gross back from Cuba.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, yeah, I remember that.

[Josh Clark]

Do you remember that one?

[Chuck Bryant]

I do.

[Josh Clark]

It's just so nuts and just so misguided that I couldn't not include it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, agreed.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Let's talk about it being an easy target because the thing is, they have so many different things going on in so many parts of the world that inevitably some of them are going to turn out to be crooked or rotten or poorly managed or a waste of money. That's just, that's a given. Nobody's. I don't think debating that. What I think is important is how the agency or in agency or anybody in that position responds to that kind of thing.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

So there have been like a few examples of controversies that were non controversies because USAID handled it really well. A big one was a USAID charity or a charity that USAID funded in Kenya. The Children of God Relief Institute ran an orphanage for children in Kenya who had been affected by AIDS. And in 2021, USAID was told by a whistleblower that this charity was covering up rampant sex abuse of children in its orphanage.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, the USAID Inspector General said that the Children of God Relief Institute, quote, knew or should have known of multiple incidents of child sex abuse. And USAID found out about this and they cut off funding in 2023 and told the Kenyan police, like, here's everything we have on this.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's another kind of indirect service that USAID provides is they do high quality international inspections of something like a single charity in Kenya. And then they shared the information, the results of their inspections, their investigations, and sometimes it can bring criminal charges against people who were doing wrong. But really USAID is making sure that their money's not being misspent or going to bad actors. But it has this other rippling effect that I think in some ways actually provides justice that otherwise might not have been provided.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, totally. You know, another sort of annoying way that modern politics works in this country is the, you know, sort of homing in on a single either sound bite or just something that they know will be super grabby. And both sides do this. I'm not like picking on any particular side here of, you know, of the way we absorb our content these days. And like, a big example of this is, you know, we spent $50 million on condoms in Gaza and that's just not true. That's not what happened. But no one cares to know the truth. It seems like as long as they can run that headline and tweet about it, you know.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's just bad info all around. The $50 million is. So this group was actually getting an injection of $100 million. They were getting it in 50 and then another 50 later. So it wasn't even just $50 million. There was $100 million. It was going to a group called the International Medical Corps working in Gaza. They provide emergency medical services and they do have, there is some family planning that they provide services they provide that includes way more than just contraception and that's not anywhere near a focus of what they, what they do in Gaza or anywhere else with their emergency. And then to top it all off, the director of the International Medical Corps said the money that we've already gotten, not a single dollar has been spent on condoms anyway. So this whole thing is just totally not just blown out of proportion, it's wrong. And yet, like you said, that's the soundbite that gets reported all throughout the news on any part of the spectrum. And it's just like, it's just such a bad time to take in information right now.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, it's pretty depressing. I totally agree.

[Josh Clark]

Thanks.

[Chuck Bryant]

Should we take another break?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, let's, because we've got much more.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah, we talked about some highs and lows. We're going to talk a little bit more about that and whether or not USAID is a good investment for the United States right after this.

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[Ebony]

Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebony, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebony, and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles and more. And found the strength to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant. But he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug dealer deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Josh Clark]

So you said we were going to talk a little bit about a few more highs and lows. Just today, I would guess this was strategically released. The British Medical Journal, very respected British medical journal, the Lancet, released a report that said that Since, I think 2000, maybe 2002, I can't remember, an estimated 91 million deaths, preventable deaths have been prevented because of USAID funding. Pretty impressive.

[Chuck Bryant]

91 million people.

[Josh Clark]

Yes. All right, but. And that's in like 20, 25 years, something like that. It's not since they started, but they also estimate that within the next five years, by 2030, about 14 million preventable deaths won't have been prevented because of the cuts to US Aid funding.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right.

[Josh Clark]

Which is not good.

[Chuck Bryant]

No, it's not. And you know, that kind of brings us to whether or not it's a good investment for the U.S. we've kind of mentioned some of the highs and lows and at its best you are saving hundreds of millions of lives since its inception. At its worst, cost billions of dollars for dictators to line their pockets sometimes or criminals to get funded and arms get funded and drugs get funded. So it's a reasonable thing to put it under a microscope for sure. A little bit more about the budget. 2024, the budget was $21.7 billion, which is 0.3 of the total federal spending, which is $6.8 trillion. 0.3% compared to 4% for the Department of Education, also going away, and the Department of defense at 13% compared to 0.3%. Since 1980, USAID spending has increased 106% while overall government spending has increased close to 200%. So it's not like it's even kept pace with our spending as a government overall since 1980.

[Josh Clark]

Right, right. And so that's the best you can do essentially, when you try to talk about whether it's a good investment, is point out how little we actually spend on it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Right, yeah.

[Josh Clark]

You know, because the, the, it's. So it's basically impossible to calculate the return on investment because the return on investment is worldwide goodwill toward the United States. And the United States can be like, hey, you know that favor you owe me? I'm calling it in because we're putting a military alliance together, or this giant American business wants to start doing business in your country, whatever it is. And that is actually something that made me curious about why Trump was so hell bent on shutting down usaid. Because it's not like he's not into people owing him favors with usaid. It's an unwritten thing, like you owe America favors now, like you're our friend. But it's not like we're just giving you money and it's just strictly goodwill, just strictly life savings. That's the stated goal. But there's also an undercurrent there where, like, if we call in a favor, you better come to our help.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that is fairly perplexing. I never really thought about like that because I don't know, kind of one of his things is leverage, right?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's a better way to put.

[Chuck Bryant]

It that keeps that leverage in place. So, yeah, it's very interesting as far as what Americans think about this. This is a poll from Pew Research in 2019. So it's a little bit old. It might be skewed a little bit differently now, but they thought it was kind of split, you know, 30, 30, 30. 30% or 33ish percent, thought that we should increase foreign aid spending, about 33% said we should reduce it and about a third said we should keep it about the same. Yeah. So take that for what it's worth.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. Also speaking of polls, apparently polls consistently show that Americans grossly overestimate how much the US Spends on foreign aid. Typically, Americans think we spend about 25% or a quarter of our national budget on foreign aid.

[Chuck Bryant]

That's staggering that people think that.

[Josh Clark]

Again, remember, we spend roughly 1%. I think it was 1.2% back in 2023. So, like, just the difference in perception is nuts. I wonder how many people out there are like, wait, it's that. And we're not doing that anymore. I wonder if that's going to be an outcome of it or not. I also feel like we should wait and see what this America First Agency's policies and things are if they reactivate some of these existing networks or infrastructure that USAID already had or if they're just starting over from scratch. So I'm curious about that.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, I mean, I think to insert my opinion here, because we are real humans and we have them, what frustrates me the most, I think, is that this idea, like you just said, like, there are people out there that think we spend 25% of our money on other countries, which is a joke, that they will be like, you know how much better my life is going to be when we cut off funding to help these people around the world and help us instead, when that doesn't happen.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Chuck Bryant]

And when their lives don't change at all in any way, I just wonder if anyone's going to look back and say, God, what a, what a. I mean, it might be 50 years from now. They're like, what a horrible thing that we did to not help the most vulnerable people of the world. When people thought that all of a sudden their life was going to look better in the United States because we stopped saving the lives of others.

[Josh Clark]

I don't know. I feel like we've as Americans have really demonstrated the ability to do all sorts of mental gymnastics to, to support our point. So who knows?

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Josh Clark]

One other thing that's a big, a big problem with just rolling back. Usaid, especially so abruptly, is USAID is a thorn in autocrat sides around the world. Like, if usa, if you allow USAID to work in your country, you got to take what you like, and what you don't like, you can't. It's not a buffet. So USAID supports a Lot of, like pro democracy groups and organizations and countries that are kind of short on democracy. And now those groups are going to be left without funding. Also, very importantly, left without implicit American support for them and them not being abused or their human rights being abused. And they're basically just being left out to dry. And autocrats are going to be able to do more of what they do. So it is very much a blow to global democracy as well to just lose U.S. aid. And there is one more thing that is causing concern among people who are concerned about this, and that is that this is going to leave a vacuum around the world in foreign aid that China in particular is going to be happy to step in and fill. So they will be the ones growing influence around the world. And they're already at it. Actually. The US spent 3.8 trillion, remember, in foreign aid over the last 80 years. Since World War II, China has spent 1 trillion already just in the last 12 years. So not only will we be losing our ability to make and keep friends, we'll be giving our biggest rival a chance to gain even more.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And, you know, if you're, if you're, depending on what side of the fence you're on with this, you might think, hey, guys, you didn't talk about this, this, and this, and those were all bad programs. There are other people that might say, you didn't talk about this, this, this, and those are all great programs distributed through USAID and that. You know, we just don't have hours and hours to go over every single thing. We tried to cover a little bit of both.

[Josh Clark]

Yeah. I feel like it's worth saying, then there are like, you, especially if you're critical of America's influence around the world and especially the underhanded version of it, USAID is very much involved in that. So if you're critical of that, you are probably critical of usaid, and you're probably not exactly shedding a tear for USAID being rolled back. That's definitely one point of view out there. I think if we're talking about trying to be fair here, that's. I think that's an important thing to point out.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Josh Clark]

So usaid, I think, hopefully we've presented enough info that you can make up your own mind. We certainly respect you trying to do that. Don't just listen to us. And of course that means it's listener mail.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah. Since Josh just said don't listen to.

[Josh Clark]

Us, I think that's a good rule of thumb. Right.

[Chuck Bryant]

Great advice from a Podcaster. Hey guys, this is. This is another Chuck correction. It was kind of on both of us, I guess.

[Josh Clark]

Okay.

[Chuck Bryant]

Hey, guys. Longtime listener. Really enjoy the variety of topics. For the first time in ten plus years, I feel compelled to write in and ask for a correction. During the Sunset Boulevard episode, Tangent, you guys are talking about American Graffiti and surmised that it was based on the Sunset Boulevard, like Cruising Zone. That is not correct, guys. I never do this. American Graffiti is based on coming of age in Modesto, California.

[Josh Clark]

That's what we said.

[Chuck Bryant]

This is where George Lucas grew up, guys. The movie references a number of local streets, roads and nearby cities. It was not filmed here, but was definitely based on the car cruising culture of modesto in the 60s. And I didn't know that. Rich Alm from Modesto native. And I wish I had known that because I link Modesto in my mind to one of my top three modern bands of all time, Granddaddy out of Modesto.

[Josh Clark]

Oh, Granddaddy. Yeah, they were great. Yes, I was. I thought you were going to talk about Red Tail or Redhawk beer.

[Chuck Bryant]

Oh, no, no. Is that a Modesto beer?

[Josh Clark]

Yeah, it's really good.

[Chuck Bryant]

I'll try that.

[Josh Clark]

That's all I got. That was Rich.

[Chuck Bryant]

That was Rich Ulm.

[Josh Clark]

Well, where were you when we needed you, Rich? When we were talking about it being set in la. That's my question.

[Chuck Bryant]

Not in Modesto. Because he said Modesto native, so probably not still a Modesto.

[Josh Clark]

No, he could still be a Modesto.

[Chuck Bryant]

Yeah, but I figured he would say current Modesto resident. And here's where I live.

[Josh Clark]

Maybe. Maybe. Okay, well, either way, Rich, maybe you can email back in and let us know, which is the case. And while we're waiting for an email from Rich, we're also waiting for an email from you. You can send it to [e-mail] Stuff youf Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Unnamed Host]

OpenAI is a financial abomination, a thing that should not be an aberration, a symbol of rot at the heart of Silicon Valley. And I'm gonna tell you why on my show, Better Offline, the rudest show in the tech industry where we're breaking down why OpenAI, along with other AI companies, are dead set on lying to your boss that they can take your job. I'm also going to be talking with the greatest minds in the industry about all the other ways the rich and powerful are ruining the computer. Listen to Better offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you happen to get your podcasts.

[Josh Clark]

Are there any pictures of you online? Then you could already be in a massive police database without even knowing it. Clearview scrapes together images From Facebook, from LinkedIn, from Venmo account. I'm Dexter Thomas, host of Kill Switch, a podcast about how living in the future is affecting us right now. Police, they are trusting the software with this magical ability to lead them to the right suspect. In this episode, we dive into how cops are using AI and facial recognition and sometimes getting it wrong and putting innocent people behind bars. So if your accuser is this algorithm, but you're not even being told that it was used, let alone alone given any of the details about how it.

[Chuck Bryant]

Works, listen to Kill Switch on the.

[Josh Clark]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ebony]

Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebony, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebon, and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast.