A facelift in your 30s

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Episode Summary: "A Facelift in Your 30s" Released on March 25, 2025

Hosted by Shameless Media, "Style-ish" delves into the latest trends and discussions in fashion, brand development, business, and beauty. In this episode titled "A Facelift in Your 30s," hosts Madison Sullivan Thorpe, Joanna Fleming, and Annika Joshi Smith explore the growing trend of younger women opting for facelifts, the resurgence of the IT sweatshirt among Gen Z, the launch of influencer Michaela Naguera's beauty brand, and the evolving attitudes toward takeaway food.

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1. The Rising Trend of Facelifts in Your 30s

The episode opens with a deep dive into the increasing number of women in their early to mid-30s opting for facelifts—a procedure traditionally associated with individuals in their 50s and above.

Key Points:

• Shift in Perception: Historically, facelifts were viewed as treatments for aging visible in later decades. However, recent trends indicate a shift, with younger women seeking the procedure earlier.
• Contributing Factors:
  • Weight Loss Drugs: The rise of medications like Ozempic, used for weight loss, has led to unintended skin sagging, prompting some to consider facelifts as a corrective measure.
  • Virtual Interactions: Increased reliance on virtual presence means individuals are more conscious of their appearance on-screen.
  • Early Cosmetic Procedures: More young women are starting with fillers and Botox in their 20s, making the transition to facelifts by their 30s seem less drastic.

Notable Quotes:

• Joanna Fleming ([02:10]): "Facelifts have evolved with shorter recovery times, longer-lasting results, and a more natural look, making them more appealing to younger women."
• Annika Joshi Smith ([03:05]): "It's a bit of a catch-22 for influencers like Kimberly, who share their facelift journeys and then face backlash for it."

Psychological Implications:

• Body Image Pressure: The hosts discuss how social media and constant exposure to curated images contribute to body image issues, pushing individuals toward cosmetic procedures.
• Audience Reactions: A poll conducted by Shameless Media revealed that 36% of listeners feel negatively about themselves when exposed to facelift content on social media.

Expert Insights:

• Dr. Mike Nayak: Mentioned in the Wall Street Journal feature, he notes that starting Botox at 25 can make a facelift by 40 seem like a natural progression rather than a drastic step.

Discussion Highlights:

• Normalization vs. Stigmatization: The hosts debate whether openly sharing facelift experiences normalizes the procedure or perpetuates negative perceptions about aging.
• Future Predictions: With the projected increase in use of weight loss drugs, the demand for facelifts and related cosmetic procedures is expected to rise.

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2. The Resurgence of the IT Sweatshirt Among Gen Z

Shifting gears, the conversation moves to the fashion world, specifically the comeback of the IT sweatshirt and its popularity among Gen Z women.

Key Points:

• Historical Context: References to past trends like Dobson's and Juicy Couture tracksuits illustrate the cyclical nature of fashion.
• Current Trends:
  • Oversized Fits and Bold Logos: Modern IT sweatshirts feature slouchy, oversized fits with prominent branding.
  • Limited Drops: Brands employ scarcity strategies by releasing limited batches, creating hype and exclusivity.
  • Brand Expansion: Successful brands like Sporty and Rich have diversified their offerings beyond sweatshirts, including outerwear, denim, beauty products, and more.

Notable Quotes:

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe ([15:18]): "Emily Oberg of Sporty and Rich said, 'If you have a strong identity and world you've built, you can literally put a logo on anything and people will buy it.'"
• Joanna Fleming ([17:58]): "The scarcity strategy is such a psychological play. Limited drops make people crave exclusivity."

Consumer Behavior:

• Gen Z's Engagement: Gen Z consumers actively engage with brands online, eagerly participating in limited releases to be part of exclusive communities.
• Dopamine Effect: The act of securing a limited item provides a sense of belonging and instant gratification.

Discussion Highlights:

• Comparison to Previous Generations: The hosts contrast Gen Z's understated fashion choices with the bold styles of millennials, noting a shift towards minimalism paired with strategic branding.
• Psychological Drivers: The use of scarcity and brand identity taps into deeper psychological desires for exclusivity and self-expression.

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3. Launch of Michaela Naguera's Beauty Brand

The episode spotlights beauty influencer Michaela Naguera's transition from content creation to entrepreneurship with her new makeup prep brand, Point of View.

Key Points:

• Brand Overview: Point of View is a direct-to-consumer beauty brand launching with five products:
  • Drench It: Hydrating primer
  • Drip It: Serum and moisturizer
  • Glaze It: Attack primer
  • Amp It: Lip treatment
• Inspiration and Development:
  • Personal Journey: Michaela was inspired by frequent customer questions during her time at Ulta Beauty about makeup preparation.
  • Korean Skincare Influence: All products are manufactured in Korea, emphasizing high-quality textures and skin-centric formulations.
• Collaborative Efforts: Michaela partnered with Annie Hajanian, a seasoned executive with experience in major beauty brands, ensuring strong brand foundation and strategic positioning.

Notable Quotes:

• Michaela Naguera ([21:57]): "Beauty is a makeup prep brand that addresses the fundamental question: How do you prep your skin for makeup?"
• Madison Sullivan Thorpe ([25:44]): "If someone like Jeffree Star is raving about it, and she's partnering with people from Tom Ford and Augustine Esbarta, this brand is poised for success."

Brand Strategy:

• Inclusivity: Michaela emphasizes an inclusive approach, ensuring the brand appeals across multiple demographics.
• Market Positioning: By focusing on skincare as the foundation for makeup, Point of View differentiates itself from typical color-centric brands.

Discussion Highlights:

• Overcoming Past Controversies: Michaela's previous scandals, such as the false lashes accusation in a L'Oréal ad, are addressed, with the hosts expressing confidence in her authenticity and commitment to quality.
• Retail Prospects: The brand is expected to secure retail partnerships, potentially launching in stores like Ulta to maximize accessibility.

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4. Is the Doggy Bag Dead? Changing Attitudes Toward Takeaway Food

In a lighter segment, the hosts examine changing behaviors around taking leftovers home from restaurants, often referred to as "doggy bags."

Key Points:

• Industry Observation: Restaurant owners like Emmett Burke have noted a decline in customers requesting takeaway boxes for leftovers.
• Contributing Factors:
  • Social Stigma: Younger generations, particularly Gen Z, may perceive asking for doggy bags as socially awkward.
  • Convenience of Ordering Fresh: With the prevalence of food delivery apps, there's less incentive to take home leftovers.
  • Portion Sizes: Especially in places like New York, where portion sizes are significantly larger, diners may feel overwhelmed by the idea of taking food home.

Notable Quotes:

• Emmett Burke ([30:05]): "I assume most people would love to have a quarter of a pizza in their fridge, but they're just not asking."
• Madison Sullivan Thorpe ([32:16]): "If I'm on a date, I would rather die than ask for a doggy bag to go."

Personal Anecdotes:

• The hosts share their own experiences and hesitations about requesting doggy bags, highlighting the discomfort and perceived social awkwardness associated with the act.
• Joanna Fleming ([30:33]): Shares an amusing anecdote about declining a doggy bag despite having untouched food.

Discussion Highlights:

• Cultural Shifts: The decline of doggy bags reflects broader cultural shifts in dining etiquette and personal habits.
• Economic Factors: Amidst cost-of-living concerns, some listeners express a desire to resume taking leftovers home as a practical measure.

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Conclusion

In this multifaceted episode of "Style-ish," the hosts navigate through the complexities of modern beauty standards, evolving fashion trends, influencer-driven entrepreneurship, and shifting social behaviors. From the psychological underpinnings of cosmetic procedures among young women to the strategic branding that captivates Gen Z consumers, and from the entrepreneurial journey of a beauty influencer to the subtle changes in dining habits, "A Facelift in Your 30s" offers a comprehensive exploration of contemporary issues in fashion and beauty.

Listener Engagement:

• The hosts encourage listeners to share their experiences and opinions, fostering a community dialogue around topics like doggy bags and cosmetic procedures.

Upcoming Topics:

• The episode promises further discussions on beauty brand launches and other current trends in future installments.

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Note: This summary omits advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the core discussions and insights shared by the hosts.

Transcript

[Joanna Fleming]

Foreign. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Bioderma. Undress your skin. Reveal your glow with the iconic sensor. Bio H2O micellar water limited edition bottle created in partnership with Victoria Beckham. Coming soon to Chemist Warehouse.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. I am, of course, Jo. Co host Joanna Fleming and Annika Joshi Smith.

[Joanna Fleming]

Hi.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Hello, ladies. Hi, Dua.

[Joanna Fleming]

Hi. Mads also went to Dua Lipa, but she's Troy. I'm the backup dancer.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I feel the rush.

[Joanna Fleming]

Her looks.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Oh.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Fleming]

Could you get any hotter?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

She's so hot. Like, the definition of the way I.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Described her after being at her concert was Aura Level 3000. Like, I've never seen aura like that. It also made me want to just permanently blow, wave, and curl my hair at all times.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

And also get extensions.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I'm all right on the extension front, but I could probably do with a bit of body.

[Joanna Fleming]

The hair, though, of her show. Like, there's so much hair movement. I was thinking as she was performing, like, if she had short hair, this would not be the same vibe.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

No.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You can't really flick your bob around.

[Joanna Fleming]

The way she flicks the girls.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. But no notes, honestly, like, the looks were seriously something to be admired.

[Joanna Fleming]

If you haven't seen Katie Jane Hughes on her makeup absolutely nails it. She just must know her face so well. She just does her looks so beautifully.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I mean, not a bad face to face start with too, right? Yeah. Always helps when the gene pulls back.

[Joanna Fleming]

All right, well, today we're going to be discussing the rise of the IT sweatshirt, beauty influencer Michaela Naguero's soon to be released beauty brand, and whether the doggy bag is dead. But first, we're exploring the rise of women in their 30s getting facelifts. This is an interesting one that I've been seeing online a lot in the last few weeks. Now, facelifts have historically been a procedure that people undergo a little bit later in life, with most Doctors viewing the 50s on as the sweet spot to get one. But in recent years, there's been an increase in younger women wanting to get facelifts. In a feature for the Wall Street Journal, writer Tatiana Boncompagne says that doctors are attributing the shift to several factors, including the rise of weight loss drugs like Ozempic, which can leave the skin sagging, and a new reliance on virtual interactions. Another reason doctors point to is the increase in young women getting filler And Botox in their 20s. Dr. Mike Nayak, a facial plastic surgeon in St. Louis, told the publication. When you start Botox at 25, by the time you reach 40, getting a facelift seems like not such a big leap. Over the decades, the surgery has evolved as well. So these days, the procedure has a shorter recovery time, the results are longer lasting, and they're more natural looking as well. So creators in their mid to late 30s have started sharing their facelift journeys on TikTok, including Australian Kim Haberley, who's a hairdresser. She's 37 years old. She recently went to Turkey for a facelift. She has been all over my few page. I think I've watched every single video that she's done on her facelift. And creators like Kimberly have been met with very mixed responses from viewers. Some saying that her results are amazing, others being like, as if you would go and get a facelift when you're still in your 30s.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Which she's addressed quite openly on her channels. And I feel like it's catch 22 when you share this stuff. Right. Because if she hadn't mentioned anything and then she came back to her channels looking slightly different, her audience would have been like, well, what have you done? Why haven't you shared it with us? And then if you do share it, you're getting backlash about something that you've had done. So I think it is a little bit of a catch 22 when you have an audience. But we actually decided that we were gonna poll our audience on their thoughts on this. So Shameless co founder Mish put a poll up asking whether facelift content on social media makes you guys feel negatively about yourselves. And the poll results came through that 36% said yes.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Wow.

[Joanna Fleming]

Which is a pretty big stat. That's a pretty big portion of our audience. So I'm keen to discuss this with you guys. What are your thoughts around this content becoming more popular on our feeds?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Whatever happened to aging gracefully? I just feel like now in this day and age that we're living in, it is just. And I'm also part of this. But we are doing everything to fight the clock. And I mean, like, you know, I've invested in my skincare and I'm really kind of on that journey now, but it's like, I haven't started injectables, but that's definitely coming. Like, I'm never going to say no to that. Like, I want the sperm under my eyes asap.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Salmon sperm.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

That's the salmon sperm. But I don't know, I feel like we are becoming quite conditioned and it's almost quite normalized now. You know, we had the undetectable era of beauty and aging backwards and Benjamin Button all over our feeds. And now I'm not that surprised that women and men are reaching and looking at new ways to kind of fight the signs of aging. But it does scare me. I can't imagine. I'm 33 years old and I actually can't imagine thinking that that was going to be something that I really wanted to do. So I'm really intrigued to understand people's why. Why did Kimberly actually want to go ahead and do this?

[Joanna Fleming]

See, I would challenge your comments saying what happened to aging gracefully? Because why do we consider surgical intervention something that means we're not aging gracefully? That is something that people say all the time. But why do we have that perception that this is such an awful thing to do? Is it because others are influencing each other to then have these procedures? Is that why we think it's negative? Like, it's such a complex topic.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It is.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think it's got more to do with like, what is the point or the pinnacle that we start to recognize someone as their age. And I think that is where people start to get a little bit frustrated or a little bit insecure is I actually don't know what a 40 year old is supposed to look like anymore. Because I look at someone like Lindsay Lohan and she looks 21. And then you look at a 40 year old who might look 43 and I'm like, I just don't know what the reference point is anymore. Yeah, I feel like injectables and, you know, Botox filler, I kind of salmon sperm, I put those things in the bucket. Have become a lot more normalized, like maintenance. I feel like people look at that as a maintenance. I have more girlfriends going to get Botox than those that don't. And I think they're telling me that they're off to a Botox appointment. Like, they're telling me they're off to a facial and I'm not gonna yuck anyone's yum. I'm like, you do you? But I do think with things like Instagram filters or Snapchat filters or TikTok filters and all of these things, you put it on, it makes your nose smaller, it pulls your face back, it lifts your brows, it takes the lines away from your eyes. I'm like, it's like defining beautiful is to be as youthful looking as possible. And I think about that A lot.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. It's not a new phenomenon, though.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's just that I think we see so much more of ourselves now that we're so much more critical. We see a lot of other people as well. Like, you're constantly. You've got other people's faces in your face as you're looking at your phone.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

When you're chronically online.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And you're studying other people and what they look like, which is not necessarily a very good reflection of what they actually look like in real life as well. You know, the beauty filters use quite frequently on TikTok, and you don't necessarily know that it's on when you're watching videos.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So, like, I'm getting better at spotting it, though.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm like, the blush is looking a little blurred for me.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I'm seeing more and more clients in their late 20s, early 30s complaining of skin laxity, which is concerning to me because I'm looking at their photos and their videos in order to do their consultation, and I'm like, I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm not seeing this in your imagery. I'm not seeing skin laxity. I'm seeing really good skin for someone that is late 20s, early 30s.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And so they're like, oh, oh, okay. They just needed to hear that from someone else. So it's very, very interesting, the psychology of it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think you make a really good point, though, in terms of, like, the amount of time people are spending critically evaluating themselves, because they're either filming themselves or they're watching other people, or they're spending longer in the mirror. But I do feel like. Can't help but be concerned that this level of transparency, of people sharing it will normalize it even more.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I love that people are being honest, because the last thing I think society needs is for someone to look incredible at 40. And everyone just think that that's what we should look like without any sort of maintenance, intervention, surgical assist. So I love the transparency on one hand, but how do we feel about the transparency on the other of. Well, if you're seeing eight girls over an hour talking about their facelift, are you suddenly thinking, it's not that drastic?

[Joanna Fleming]

Totally. Because if you start watching one piece of content, it's a slippery slope. Then you're in the algorithm of the facelift content. You're like, oh, wait. Oh, my God. Every second person that's in their late 30s is getting this. Do I need it?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Same thing happened to me, like, transparently, I think probably like two or three years ago, I was like, I would love to get a tiny little bit of lip Filler. Went on TikTok and looked at one video and I think for probably four weeks straight. Yeah, it was just all of these fantastic lip filled lips. Yeah, Lip filler filled lips. Anyway, I mean, I didn't go and get lip filler, but it totally built an algorithm designed to convince me of something that I was trying to research.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something I will say though, if you're getting this procedure in Australia, and I don't know what the situation is in Turkey, but if you're getting a procedure like this, you have to undergo a psychological evaluation with a plastic surgeon. So if you are not in a state to have this procedure done or they suspect that you may have signs of body dysmorphia. And Kim, who we've referenced earlier, has actually spoken about this a bit, that she's dealing with a bit of body dysmorphia, trying to come to terms with her new face because she does look a little bit different to what she did previously. I think she looks like a great version of herself, but it would take a little bit because you know your face so intimately and any kind of slight change, you're gonna be like, whoa, that's really different. That a good plastic surgeon is not going to go ahead with a procedure if they suspect that there is an element of that at play, especially in someone that is not typically of the age where it would be expected you'd be having a procedure of that kind.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm nearly 30. You guys are early 30s. How would you feel if someone within your friendship circle came to you and said, I'm going to get a facelift end of next year?

[Joanna Fleming]

I would say, bitch, no you're not.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I would honestly be like wanting to know the why. And I think it would be such a deep conversation because obviously we don't really know what the reasoning is behind even, you know, Kim herself going and getting this done. But I think, and maybe I am just really naive in this, but I think, you know, cause I haven't gone down the injectables path yet and I haven't started on that journey versus a lot of my friends who have. To me, it does feel very drastic and it does feel like actually quite scary. And so I feel like that's where probably I'm like, oh. Like it's a bit of shock. But again, I'm not going to yuck someone's yum either. Like, I'm with you. On that. And I'm also for the transparency and the dialogue around this because I also appreciate what Kim's saying. And she's going, you know, out there and saying, I am facing a little bit of dysmorphia right now because I'm like, who am I?

[Joanna Fleming]

It's also her face. She can do whatever she wants. Totally. But I think what we're discussing here is the difference between sharing it and then not sharing it. And does it become problematic if then this content is so normalized?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Then encouraging other people to have it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

There's just a lot to it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Even like injectables. Right. You can go and get lip filler in a shopping center.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You can go down and get your sushi on ground floor and go and get lip filler for 250 at a laser clinic that's that accessible now. I'm like, yeah, what's going to. Like, where will you be getting a facelift in 10 years time? Like.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. Do you know what else? I think it's kind of now like looking at all these trends and seeing them kind of also kind of go hand in hand. Like, we have also seen the rise of Ozempic and how now readily available and accessible. That is. And a stat that I found quite alarming was one from the calculations from Goldman Sachs who said GLP1 agonist drugs could be used by up to 70 million consumers worldwide by 2028. And it is because they're becoming so much more accessible and readily available. But then obviously the flip side is that can sometimes cause sagging and your face being a bit more gaunt. So then what are you doing to reverse repair?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm sure plastic surgeons are rubbing their hands together going, fantastic.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

So it's like, what is actually gonna be happening in the next 10 years, the next five years, all of this stuff. It is quite alarming. But the tech is also so advanced.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

So, yeah, it's a really interesting one.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I don't think we're gonna solve it here today.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

No, we're not.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think we're all probably safely agreeing that it's young to be talking about a facelift.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But I think that we've gotta get to someone's why. And I think if you wanna consider any sort of procedure or injectable or anything, like, as always, look inward and get offline for just a hot minute because comparison is absolutely the thief of joy.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. And also speak expert.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

100%.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Or multiple experts to actually fully understand what you're signing up to before you go and have a procedure done.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Well, now that we've spoken about the facelifts, now we're going to talk about the rise of the IT sweatshirt. And there was a recent article featured on the Business of Fashion exploring how a host of creator led brands have turned the sweatshirt into a must have item for Gen Z women. Can you think of any local examples of brands that have made them viral?

[Joanna Fleming]

Mr. Winston?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Over times. Was that 2020 that was going nuts?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It was five years ago, you guys. How wild is that?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I know. Yeah, the C word.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

But even like Camilla Remark and CNM and PE Nation.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Gosh, the number of jerseys. The like branded jerseys. Beckham Woods.

[Joanna Fleming]

I don't know because you weren't based in Australia as a teenager, but Mads, you would have had Dobson's or Trigger tracksuit pants.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Oh, yeah, I've got no idea what that.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes, okay, sorry. That must have been a Melbourne thing or maybe Australian thing. I don't know if that went outside Melbourne. But Dobson's colorful tracksuit pants, every single person had them. I obviously had them in gray because I don't do much colors.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Do you guys know what we have?

[Joanna Fleming]

Brown. What did you have?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

The Juicy Couture tracksuits. I had pink velour and I had Juicy on my ass.

[Joanna Fleming]

See, I think there's always an iteration of a tracksuit or a sweatsuit.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Popular.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I mean, none of these designs are super groundbreaking.

[Joanna Fleming]

Right.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

From a garment perspective, not to yuck any of those brands, but we're talking slouchy, oversized fit and bold logos. But Gen Z in particular seem to be lapping it out. And what a lot of these brands are doing is using a limited drop model and being really proactive about engaging with their online audience and following. And then these brands are building these massive hype and then dropping them in limited releases. And brands need consumers to buy into more than just one hero product. Right. So, I mean, we're talking about a lot of these brands with virality, but I think we can all acknowledge that a lot of these brands have other products within it. But I think Sporty and Rich is a really good example of this. And Emily Oberg, the founder, is a really great example of someone with a very strong and very clear brand identity. And Sporting Rich started selling sweats and then over the years have expanded into outerwear, denim, beauty, and more recently sexual wellness. And they've also had collaborations in there as well. So I think they're on their third or fourth drop with Adidas as well. And Emily said, if you have a strong identity and world you've built, you can literally put a logo on anything and people will buy it.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It's true.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That is one hell of a statement, though, to come from a brand founder, because it's pretty black and white. Are you into the IT sweater trend? Like, have either of you engaged with it?

[Joanna Fleming]

I don't really know. I do have sweaters that have logos on them, I guess.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. I'm so random. I'll go to, like, a Drake concert and I'll buy the merch, and I'm like, hell, yeah, repping that. I actually am trying to think, even when it comes to just my usual wardrobe, everything's actually now in the athleisure space quite understated. I've got, like, hoodies and sweats from entire studios, which are just very, like, oversized, boxy, minimal. I actually don't think I own any branded ones.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you feel like it's a fleeting trend or it's one that's here to stay?

[Joanna Fleming]

I think it comes and goes.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Like we experienced in high school, everyone wanted the trigger track through pants, and then it kind of went to, you know, more neutral and, like, no branding on it. And then I feel like PE Nation came out and everyone wanted PE Nation and Nina Bing. Yeah, exactly.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Why do you think Gen Z, in particular, is so drawn to it now, though? Because I think even though it's cyclical, it does feel like they have really embraced it.

[Joanna Fleming]

I mean, they think they've invented everything on TikTok.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

She said what she said.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You are listening. I stand with you. I am a cuspy. I just show up very millennial.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Honestly, it's interesting, right? So from a retail perspective, we have actually just seen an influx of requests from our retail partners in the youth contemporary space for sweatshirts. For sweaters. For just tracksuits in general. And it's actually really interesting when we kind of analyze the data in that regard. Just saying. Okay. They're really trying to capture that target market. And for me, I kind of do sometimes get post Covid fatigue, and I'm like, oh, my God, we're going back here. But the Athleisure market in general has been huge, and it's been growing consistently since COVID especially in the UK and the US So I'm not surprised that now it's kind of coming back into resurgence again. But I feel like as well, we're in this health as wealth era, and I do think you can Kind of buy into communities. You can buy into brands through more entry level price points, which can sometimes be like a branded tee or a branded sweatshirt. But I definitely think Gen Z kind of do have a cool way of to make things cool. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm like sometimes I think, oh yeah, that's so cool. And they're in these branded little communities and they're like copped it first limited drops. And I'm like, oh yeah, that's cool. And I'm like, what am I talking about? I don't even know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Don't you think as well though, they're a lot more understated than we were. Like we were going to clubs in bodycons dresses and stilettos and bright pink neon lipstick.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Smokey eye, big bun on my head.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But they're going in like a low rise jean and a sneaker. Kudos to them. I'm pretty sure I've still got blister burns and you know, scars on my feet. Yeah, yeah. Like these battle scars. Like there's no footpix over here.

[Joanna Fleming]

You know, and the scarcity strategy is such a psychological play.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Like oh yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

The limited drops making people think that it's exclusive to own these items when they probably could just make more.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Choosing to do it that way because they know that there will be. If people think they can't get it, they want it even more. And if you do wear it, then you feel like you're seen as someone who had access to it.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And you're in the know you are.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

You get that dopamine hit of buying something highly sought after. And all your friends acknowledging and no one.

[Joanna Fleming]

I remember getting the Henny jeans. I set my alarm like a lot of Gen Z's are doing. I set my alarm for 7:00 and I bought those jeans at 7:01 and they were sold out by like 7:03.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, totally. And let's not isolate this to Gen Z women doing that because you've got men doing it with sneakers. Yeah, yeah. I'm doing it with P. Johnson caps whenever they drop. And I think you're so right, Joe. It's like people like it because they feel like they're part of an elite, you know, they're included in an elite society or a group of people of if you know, you know. And I think that at the end of the day, the reason these sweatshirts work is because people engage in brands that they feel like, say something about who they are.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Otherwise there would be a singular brand in this universe, and we would all wear it, and no one would give a shit. And yet we all consume and buy things that, you know, we've spoken about it before. $30 t shirts, $300 t shirts. People buy things because it says something about who they are or what they want to portray to the world around them. And so, I mean, Sporty and Rich is a really interesting example. And, like, it's ironic to me that she's considered, like, the queen of brand because her brand identity is so strong. But they have faced significant backlash, particularly in their early days. Those sweatshirts came out being really, really cheap, and they were accused of ripping off other designers, and somehow they've weathered this storm. Like, it does feel ironic that a brand called Sporty and Rich has somehow been the one to weather the storm because it's a pretty obnoxious brand name.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. I kind of love it, though.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Pretty obnoxious to wear on a sweatshirt. But I know that when it was Covid, I bought a secondhand one on ebay that was like, $80 more than retail because I was like, I don't want to wait for the drop, but I want the sweatshirt. What does that say about me?

[Joanna Fleming]

Humans are strange, aren't they?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I know. Our behavior is so odd sometimes, but look, I'd rather invest in a good sweatshirt than, like, you know, it's practical high heels I'm going to wear twice.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, exactly.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. So well done, Gen Z's on investing in the right space, I guess.

[Joanna Fleming]

All right, up next, we'll be discussing the upcoming launch of Michaela Naguera's beauty brand. But first, let's hear a word from today's sponsor. There are iconic beauty products, and then there are iconic beauty products. And today, we're talking about one that's truly in a league of its own. Bioderma's Sensibio H2O micellar water cleanser. I think it's safe to say most of us have a bottle of this at home. And with one sold every single second around the world, it's clear we're not alone in our obsession. This year marks 30 years since it became a backstage essential in the fashion world. Makeup artists fell in love with how effortlessly it removes makeup without disrupting the skin. And fast forward to today. It's still a must have. To celebrate this milestone, Bioderma is partnering with another icon, Victoria Beckham, to launch a limited edition bottle of Sensibio H2O micellar water. Victoria is so intentional with her collaborations, but like so many of us, she actually uses this product every day. Her skin is flawless. So honestly, if it's good enough for Victoria, it's good enough for me. This formula is also so perfect that it hasn't changed in 30 years. It's definitely a holy grail product. If you want to be among the first to get your hands on the limited edition bottle, make sure you're following BioderMaunz or sign [e-mail] Huge thanks to Bioderma for making this episode of Stylish possible. All right, if you've spent any time on TikTok, you probably know who Michaela Neguera is. She is a beauty influencer. She's amassed a 16.3 million following since joining the platform in 2020, making a name for herself with makeup tutorials and honest product reviews. You probably know her from her accent.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Charlotte Charlotte Tilbury.

[Joanna Fleming]

Now she is following the footsteps of other influen influencers and celebrities by launching her own brand. Not surprisingly, another beauty brand coming to us from an influencer. Her brand point of view. Beauty is a makeup prep brand that will launch direct to consumer on March 26 with five products drench it which is a hydrating primer, milk, Drip it which is a serum and Whip It a moisturizer, glaze it attack primer and amp it which is a lip treatment, she told wwd. I was approached two years ago with an opportunity to create a brand from my personal journey. For me that first came about when I was working at Ulta Beauty. I saw the same things every day from customers. They would come into store and they would always ask similar questions along the lines of why does my makeup never look good and why doesn't my makeup look like yours? And the answer I always came back with was, well, what are you doing to prep your skin for makeup? And they would follow with well, I don't know what that is. So all products from the range are made in Korea and Naguera traveled there to work directly with the labs. I've had such an amazing admiration and obsession with Korean skincare. I just knew right away I needed to go to Korea and make these products, especially given the textures and how unique they are, she said. She's been working on the brand with Annie Hajanian, a co founder and chief executive officer who previously has worked on major brands including Augustine Espader, Tom Ford and Bobby Brown, amongst others. Hegenian was attracted by Naguera's cross generational interest. She spans across these six generational gaps because she connects to people on this human level. So let's talk firstly about her comeback, because she has had a couple of scandals in her time. I think most of us probably remember the eyelashes scandal where she did an ad. I think it was for L'Oreal telescopic.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It absolutely was. I've watched that, I reckon, 82 times over.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. And she was accused of wearing falsies in the ad and making it out like it was the mascara. Did she later admit to that? I can't remember.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No, she still denies it.

[Joanna Fleming]

She's, I believe, standing by it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I still believe, given I've just said I watched that 84 times. I probably tell you on the 4th that I thought that they were false lashes.

[Joanna Fleming]

I also think they were false lashes. She's had a couple of other small controversies as well. Do we think she's gonna get any backlash for going down the Korean skincare path? She's obviously not Korean. I see this more as an appreciation of Korean beauty, and I think she's, you know, specifically gone over there to work with the right people to create these products. What are your thoughts around that?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I think so as well. Like, I think Korean beauty is just, like, living in the future. I'm like, that tech is incredible. And I think kudos to her for actually going to the labs, working with them, partnering with them, and actually getting their insight. Because I think that is probably the uni selling proposition here as well. But I think I see it more as an appreciation. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I hope she just continues to work with manufacturers based there, because I think that if she is reinventing or rebranding Korean skincare as a white woman, I think there is problems. But from all accounts, it sounds like she is really respecting the heritage and science.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And this also feels like an extension of conversations we've had recently about creators.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Starting brands so they can then step away from content creation and just be a business owner. Do we think that's her strategy here as well?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I think something I liked about this story was from her starting out on the shop floor at Ulta Beauty and working her way up to see, like, I love that girl boss mentality. And I do like partnerships that have a bit more of a meaningful extension of, like, oneself. So I see what you mean there. I agree with you on that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think she has a right to have a beauty brand. Like, I would say, in the last five years, she has been one of the most influential voices across beauty. And I think she has played this really smart to take the time.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Write out her own controversies as Well, I wouldn't be surprised if this is maybe the second date they'd put in the diary for launch. But I think that, you know, she is an authority and I think my question is more, are these products a white space that will tell? I mean, looking at it, we've got a hydrating primer, a serum, a moisturizer attack primer and a lip treatment. Like, none of those sound like revolutionary products. But as we've just spoken about with sweatshirts, branding is everything. So if she can deliver this well, if someone like Jeffree Star is raving about it, you know, when he's being sent the PR kit, I think this can be a successful brand. I'm most intrigued by who she's working with because I think Tom Ford is an incredible success story. For those that don't know, Tom Ford was sold. Tom Ford Beauty, I should say, was sold to Estee Lauder for an eye wateringly large amount of money. Augustine Esbarta is an incredible skincare brand with patented technology and they've also had tremendous private funding for that brand to continue to kind of go from strength to strength. I think she's partnered with the right people to make this work and for it to fly.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And I think with that in mind as well, like, I'm actually really intrigued by the branding and where she's going. Like, I do like the name point of view. I do like how she had an incredibly inclusive cast when all of the kind of marketing that they've been drip feeding so far. But I do think because she's working with some really elite people, I'm intrigued to see what the price point is and if it does align with her target market and key demographic. Because I think we want the brand to be available to all of those people who have supported her journey. So, yeah, I'm intrigued.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think this will be an accessible beauty brand and I would not be at all surprised if she launches into Ulta or eventually goes into the first retail partnership.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I think a retail partnership is going to be very closely behind the launch. And I don't know if this will become a really mainstream brand. Like, I don't think it's going to be the next road, but I think it has the potential to be relatively successful and being retailers and be spoken about and kind of be, I guess, well known by people that are in the industry.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And I do really like the ethos behind the brand being all about skin prep because that is such an important part of why makeup looks good.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And so I do really like that. That's the angle she's gone with. Rather than releasing, you know, an eyeshadow palette or something like that. She's starting from the beginning. Yeah, like, this is where you need to begin for your makeup to look the way that mine does. This is how you get there. I love Korean beauty and Korean skincare, so I'm a big fan of Koreans being all about the skin barrier, as am I. So share that interest.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you know what, though? It's also pretty smart from her from a protection and branding standpoint that she'll still be able to continue with the partnerships for all of the color beauty brands because if she can always be using her products as the base, she can keep working with. With L'Oreal too. Faced Tower, 28 Road Beauty, all those brands still lend. So if this flops, she's protected herself as a brand in and of itself.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Totally.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Go Michaela. Get that bread. So from Michaela to, you know, the perfect. Speaking of bread, good segue there, Jo. Bread baskets. Yes, absolutely. I want one at every dinner. Our next headline, is the doggy bag dead? And no, this isn't what you might think it is that there's a clutch that maybe you didn't know the term of. We are quite liter talking about takeaway food. Doggy bags. So there was this great New York Times article recently that declared that doggy bags are dead. And they spoke to restaurant owners who've noticed a change in people's attitudes towards leftovers. Emmett Burke, the owner of two Chicago style pizzerias, told the publication that diners seem increasingly uninterested in asking for boxes to take their leftover pizza home. He said, I will look at plates coming back to the kitchen and all the food we are throwing out and I will ask if something is wrong. I would assume most people would love to have a quarter of a pizza in their fridge. The article details how people in the hospitality industry are putting this doggy bag aversion to a few different factors, including social stigma. The article says that restaurant owners like Emmett Burke have noticed that people on dates, duh. And people from Gen Z are some of those least likely to ask. Ask for takeaway boxes. Burke puts it down to Gen Z growing up with the ability to order whatever they want from their phones. Why would they want to bring home food from a restaurant when they can order something fresh the following day?

[Joanna Fleming]

I can't tell you. Last time I got a doggy bag and I was out for dinner last night at Ho Chi Mama and they asked if I want a doggy bag. I was like, well, I'm not going to take a Muslim and curry to do a lipa, so I'll pass on this occasion. But I would take one home. I think it was just Adrian and I, and we had like a whole. A whole meal there that hadn't been touched. Like, if we ordered food and we literally not even touched the food, but I'm not going to take home a couple of mouthfuls and some leftover rice. I'm gonna be honest, I'll end up throwing it out five days later. Anyway.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think it's conducive of what your home environment is, like, who you live with. So, like, single gal over here. I loathe cooking. And cooking for one is. I used to love it. But cooking for one is quite literally the grimmest thing in the entire world. Like, if I have to eat meat and three veg one more time, I'm actually going to throw my fry pan against the wall. So, like, if I'm at a Thai restaurant and I'm with girlfriends and we've got leftovers, I' like, yeah, yeah, yeah. If we're all splitting it up, I'll be like, I'll take the rehangari. I'll use like a little, you know, rice cup at home. But let's be really crystal clear here. If I was on a date, I would rather die than say, can I please get a doggy bag to go?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It's quite icky, isn't it? Yeah, I totally see that. I think I honestly, when I'm out with the girls, like, someone will always take the leftovers. It always happens. Like, we're in a cost of living crisis, for goodness sake. But James and I actually, I call them the rubbish disposal because there's never a scrap of food left on our plates at a restaurant as well.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, he's like a vacuum.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's like my boyfriend too, George. Legit. I'm like, if there's ever any chicken or anything, I'm like, yeah, the dog will eat it.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, always. But it's so funny. Like, I kind of feel the stigma. I'm like, when we were growing up, we always had dog bags. It was so normal.

[Joanna Fleming]

When did you become like this?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I know, but actually, interestingly, this is article obviously from the New York Times. I do think just being in New York recently, the portion sizes are super sized compared to Australian males. It's so much larger, so much more generous. And I can kind of understand how that would also contribute to a lot of waste so much food must honestly end up in, I don't know, a trash can somewhere.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

But just living in my generation as well, we were not allowed to leave the table if we had not finished our meals. So this one strikes a chord with me. I'm like, don't leave that food behind.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Do you know, I do think there's something in it, though, that's like, when you go to dinner, let's say you're going out for pizza. It's a little treat meal. Like, you're not having pizza every night.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Right.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So then to go and take it home is like, well, am I having pizza pizza again tomorrow?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

The answer is, I don't know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

When you're like, you're having, like, a little treat yourself moment, and maybe you're like, I don't want to take the leftover cheesecake and pizza home. I mean, I've said what I've said. I'm taking it home. But I'm. Unless you're on a date. Unless I'm on a date, in which case I will not be asking for a doggy bag to go. It was funny, though. I was at a girlfriend's house recently. Shout out to you, Beck. You made a beautiful Sancho bow. She was like, who's taking the leftovers? And did Tupperware containers for the two of us.

[Joanna Fleming]

I love her. I love that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I mean, great. The next day, I had my little lettuce cups that she'd given me in a Ziploc bag, and I was like, oh, this is just heavenly.

[Joanna Fleming]

I actually loved that homemade meal.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

Sending everyone home with the leftovers.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

That's very cool.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. My girlfriend, who lives in my apartment building, will often do it. Like, when I was working in office, she would be like, give you the leftover pasta to take to work the next day. It was great. I washed the Tupperware. I take it back. She's got the raw end of that deal for sure.

[Joanna Fleming]

But it was Adrian does that with my dad. He drives past to collect his lunch for the next day. Because Adrian always cooks too much for two people. It's the cutest thing ever. And always sends a text message afterwards being like, yum, Adrian. That was delicious. And sends a photo of the empty bowl.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

My heart.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's really cute.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Could Adrian get any better? Like, the.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Adrian is.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

No.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Adrian must be protected at all costs.

[Joanna Fleming]

Like, he's made up. That's true.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I have met him, so I can confirm his real Sonica. So we've got two out of two now.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I Bugged him.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You definitely did. I think we both nearly cried when we got in. Okay, so consensus. We're fine with the doggy bag. We need to bring it back.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I think we bring it back 100%.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Not on dates.

[Joanna Fleming]

Not on dates. But any other time, I think it's appropriate to ask for a doggy bag.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I would actually love to know if any of our listeners have gone on a date and have actually got a doggy bag and just been all for.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It or their date has asked for one. Yeah, maybe if you were having a really bad time at a date, that would be a great way to signal. I'm just going to end this right here and go, hey, do you reckon I could just bag up this for good?

[Joanna Fleming]

And also some restaurants don't do them as well. So then it's awkward. If you ask for one and they're like, we don't do that here.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And then they make you do it yourself.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, no, that one hurts. When you've got your little sad Tupperware and you're just, like, scooping it in.

[Joanna Fleming]

Maybe that's why we stopped asking.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, that's definitely ick material. I'm envisioning it now.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I hear that X a lot recently. And the other one that I thought of, that's a really big ick that I would put up there with. Having to dish out your own takeaway container is, you know when you're walking somewhere and you decide you're going to turn back around and you have to do the awkward heel pivot alone? That. That lives rent free in my mind is like my only. Every time I do it, I'm like, oh, I hate me. I tried doing it recently. Just have my own, like, exposure aversion therapy, like, anyway, still in it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Why do we feel like that, though? What's so embarrassing about it?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I don't know, but when I see other people do. It needs to be studied. That's all for this week's episode of Stylish. Thank you so much for joining us and of course, thank you very much, Joanna Fleming and Annika Joshi Smith. We're actually going for dinner in a few weeks, so I'm actually going to put a battle to all of us that we all have to ask for. Takeaway.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, great. We're going to have to pick a restaurant that'll do it. Remember, you can drop us an email anytime@style-ishameless media.com or you can slide on into our DMS. Please do let us know if you had the doggy bag. This is going to be my Roman Empire for the next week. But if you want to DM us, it's style underscore ish au. And we, of course, cannot forget to thank our audio engineer, Liam Clayton, and the Shameless media team made up of head of podcast, Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer, Kate Emma Burke. We'll be right back with you next Wednesday. See you then.

[Joanna Fleming]

Bye. Bye.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.