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- [00:00]
Joanna Fleming
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Lucy Hunt
This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Archies Regular Thongs, only better.
- [00:17]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand business, and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co hosts are Ana Kadoshi Smith and Joanna Fleming.
- [00:28]
Joanna Fleming
Hi.
- [00:28]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
If I sound a little bit excited, it's because I am, because we are so, so thrilled to share some very exciting news. But I'm going to hand it over to Jo to share that very exciting news.
- [00:40]
Joanna Fleming
Yes, the exciting news is that I got engaged on the weekend.
- [00:47]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And we're also excited because we are drinking champagne while we record this episode.
- [00:52]
Joanna Fleming
Yes, it was very exciting, a very big weekend. I feel like I'm still having a bit of an adrenaline come down after that, but, yeah, it's very exciting. And I just realized that I now have to plan a wedding. I kind of just thought that the engagement was where that stops, but I've now realized that everyone immediately starts asking when the wedding is. So.
- [01:11]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, well, before we ask when the wedding is, why don't we ask how Adrian proposed? Because Lucy, head of podcast, made us hold off asking these questions on air. So this is not scripted. This is not like. And how did he do it? Like, Annika and I were blue in the face outside being like, why?
- [01:29]
Joanna Fleming
So I had been thrown a couple of decoys and a few people had said to me, like, I knew it was going to be that weekend because it was your anniversary, but I had been thrown decoys, so I did not know that it was going to be this weekend. Didn't get my nails done, didn't bring any makeup, didn't bring any nice clothes. I had all my daggy clothes because we were up at his family's holiday house. And I normally wear daggy clothes up there because, like, dirty and whatever. Like, I don't bring nice stuff. And so I was completely ill prepared for this situation. But we went out on the barge, which is like a floating boat thing with a roof on it, and we went upstairs and he had told me that he wanted to film a TikTok like a few days before. And that's not out of character. Cause he does post TikTok. So I was just like, oh, okay, whatever. And so he got me up on the roof and I kind of sat back on this recliner and he handed me a drink. And then next minute, he started talking to me behind me. And I turned around and he was on his knee with a ring. And obviously I jumped up and said yes. And that was very, very exciting. But that wasn't where the surprise ended. He told me that we were going to a winery, so I had to, like, get ready relatively quickly. Not that I really had anything to get ready with change out of my dad.
- [02:41]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I've got a brown top and a cream skirt. What can I do with this?
- [02:44]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. And so I was under the impression we were going straight to a winery. And I had my head in the phone watching this video that it was meant to be filming a TikTok, but it was actually the Proposal. And so I was watching that back, and I didn't realize where we were driving, but we drove basically down the driveway and to an Airbnb, and both of our families were there. So he'd managed to arrange everyone to be in the same place, which is a miracle at the start of December. I don't know how you managed that, but also everyone managed to keep the biggest secret ever. So kudos to both our families for not saying anything and ruining it. They did a really good job. But, yeah, it was a very big surprise to see them all there and to celebrate for that day.
- [03:22]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
And I love Adrian.
- [03:24]
Joanna Fleming
He's very thoughtful. I never underestimated his ability to do a romantic proposal.
- [03:29]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah.
- [03:30]
Joanna Fleming
But, yeah, he really surprised me. So it was.
- [03:32]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
It was great snaps for Adrian, honestly.
- [03:35]
Joanna Fleming
He'll love this when he listens back to it.
- [03:37]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
He set the standard really high.
- [03:39]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So high. And I'm not at all surprised, given that the man cooks for you even when he's on night shifts. So this is just so beautiful, and we're so excited. Now we're not going to be a podcast about fashion, brand business and beauty. We're also going to add Bride into that and cleaning.
- [03:52]
Joanna Fleming
Sorry, guys.
- [03:54]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I'm out here fighting for my life, trying to keep cleaning off that roster.
- [03:58]
Joanna Fleming
Well, it is a big episode today, so we're going to jump into the episode now that you guys have heard the proposal story. If you have any further questions, feel free to.
- [04:07]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So many.
- [04:08]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
So when we start the episode now, what's your new last name going to be?
- [04:11]
Joanna Fleming
I think I'm still going to keep my last name at this point.
- [04:13]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Modern Bride.
- [04:14]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. I haven't really thought too much about it, but I don't really like the idea of not having my last name anymore, but we'll see.
- [04:20]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Oh, my God. You could join us.
- [04:21]
Joanna Fleming
I know.
- [04:23]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Look, I've been married for two years, and I'm still rolling with Joshy Smith.
- [04:27]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So, like, you know, I kind of like that we could all have it. Yeah, well, little hyphen in Our name.
- [04:32]
Joanna Fleming
Maybe I'll consider it just for this podcast. There we go.
- [04:34]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Nice.
- [04:35]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Till death do we part. Okay, Jo, actually get into the episode.
- [04:40]
Joanna Fleming
Okay, so today we're going to be getting into why Tim Tams are vital to Adore Beauty's expansion into bricks and mortar stores. Didn't think I'd be talking about Adore Beauty so soon, considering I used to work there, but huge here we are. The wild popularity and the club like nature of Yochi stores. I think we've all seen that on TikTok. And we'll be introducing a new segment to the podcast here today or here to stay. But Mads, I think you're going to start us off with a mini word of the week.
- [05:06]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I am. I was on TikTok and it came through on our Slack channel as well, which usually means that we've all got the same algorithms. And my word of the week this week is Anna Kwan, who, if you haven't heard of her or, or this name before, it's an incredible Australian fashion label. She has some beautiful designs. I feel like there's a lot of designs. If you saw them, you'd be immediately drawn. And it's kind of got her stamp of Anna Quan on them. And she uploaded a TikTok with an overlay sound of Courtney Kardashian and it was of three designs all paired next to each other. On the far right was hers. In the middle was a design from Forever New, and on the far left was targeted. And the designs are kind of uncannily similar.
- [05:49]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah.
- [05:50]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And I think the caption read something along the lines of, I'm out here trying to get eight hours of sleep, drink two liters of water a day and build my business. And I think it presented a really unique point of view because I know we've spoken before about dupe culture. We've covered it a lot on this podcast. And I think one thing that Zara McDonald, co founder of Shameless, brought up on an episode that we've previously done was why do we feel okay when a brand punches up, but we don't feel okay when a brand punches down? And I couldn't help but feel like retailers like Forever New and Target are too much bigger businesses with a lot more resource and a lot more money than a sole business owner like Anna Kwan. And I wanted to table it and just chat about it and how we maybe all felt about it after watching it. First impressions.
- [06:38]
Joanna Fleming
I think it's also important that we put this in the episode notes so everyone can go and See the actual comparison. I just want to play devil's advocate for those that are going to watch that TikTok is that I can understand people's perspective if they were to think, oh, it's just a black and white dress, and not think too much further into it. But, Annika, I feel like you'll have great insights into actually why this is so important and relevant in this industry especially.
- [07:04]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Definitely. And I think as well, our industry as a whole, it's so competitive, it's incredibly tough. And we've spoken about how tough I think the retail landscape is right now, especially for Australian designers. There are so many caveats here. Like, as Australian brands as a whole, we support each other, we uplift each other. The brands that are kind of seeking inspiration from Anan's design, they're in our own backyard. And I feel like that in itself is like, such for me, like a big no, no. Like, we don't do that. Sure, we might look to the runways and seek inspiration from other, like, mad said brands that we like punch up towards. But when it's brands that we sometimes are aligned with, they're on the same shop floors as us, they're in the same retail spaces. We're kind of cannibalizing our other brand sales, which, as a small brand, like Anna Kwan and a small business owner that is so incredibly, like, it's a real sucker punch because it's like, this is my design. This is my name to it. It is quintessentially Anna Quan as well. Like, yes, her design's simplistic, and I think in nature she does have her own signature handwriting, which only some, maybe consumers will appreciate and understand. But at the end of the day, she is such a small business owner and it does really hurt her bottom line as a whole. But I get it as well. A lot of people won't actually think of that as a. It is a very simplistic dress, but it's the craftsmanship, the attention to detail, all of those little things, like her fabrications. Maybe she's actually getting that made locally. So who else are we impacting in the supply chain as well? Like, there's so many caveats. So I really feel for her. When I saw that TikTok and I've met her previously, and she's such a gorgeous human as well. So she genuinely would be so upset, like any other small business owner would be in that situation.
- [08:39]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And I think it's worth noting as well, the prices that these dresses were at. And I'm gonna get my Phone out. Just so I don't get these wrong. Anna Kwan's dress retails for $550. The Forever New retails for 150 and Target retails for 60. And so I think that hurts as well. What if someone is eyeing this off? Maybe thinking about that. $550 isn't anything to sneeze at. It's obviously a very expensive dress, but there is quality craftsmanship. And I know even in the comments section a lot of people referencing that craftsmanship and stitching and all of those things that have gone into it. But I think you're right. I think it's. We're putting from the grass about our own backyard. And it's not the first time we'll see it, it's not the last. But I know there's another really beautiful brand called Lavon who have gorgeous designs. And they had this really adorable red, fluffy cardigan with these adorable little bows that came down the middle. It was very distinctively their design. And I got served an ad from a fast fashion retailer within Australia that I don't shop from personally, but got served this ad obviously falling in their target market somehow. And it was an exact replica of it. And they never said anything, but I just felt so disappointed for a small business owner. Again, same thing.
- [09:50]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah, it's so hard and off mic, we were talking about it as well, is kind of, when it comes to the legalities of it, you only kind of need to have like a 10%, I believe, tolerance for the original design and like the replicated design, so to speak. So that actually in a way doesn't really protect brands that much because obviously your different cottons, your different fabrics, your different buttons, your different zipper, your different stitching, different things, different minute things. Right. And it can essentially mean, okay, that's illegal. You can actually go ahead and do that. So I think just from that mindset as well, some small brands, like the brand you just referenced might be like, you know what, can I actually be bothered putting up a fight? It's gonna cost me so much money and obviously public perception as well. Sometimes, like in this situation, I think might make us all go, you know what? I wanna support the real designer and I wanna support the original designer. Sorry, I should say, but it's just, it's such a shit fight essentially, so to speak. Yeah.
- [10:43]
Joanna Fleming
I didn't actually read the comments on that post, but I was interested to see if there was anyone chiming in there with an opposite perspective, being like, you know, do you have to be wealthy or able to afford a $550 dress to be able to be fashionable and stylish. So I do wonder whether that conversation is also happening in the comments. But it's great to also understand that perspective around the craftsmanship and how that does impact the brand and the supply chain, I guess, of getting that dress to production and getting that onto Shel. So, yeah, yeah, it's an interesting one.
- [11:13]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I would say target, with the amount of turnover I anticipate you make, you have more than enough money to fund great design students and lead designers to create fashionable, accessible wear for everyday Australia.
- [11:26]
Joanna Fleming
That isn't mimicking other people's designs. Yeah. Well, that takes us to our next segment, which is all about fragrance. I'm sure a lot of us are going to be gifted fragrance this holiday season, so I feel like now is a really good time to pull together some ultimate rules for getting the most out of your perfume or fragrance. I have spent a lot of time on fragrance over my years in beauty. Mads, I'm sure you're the same. And I actually know a lot of rules with fragrance that are, like, some are unspoken and you really only hear them from the experts. And we have some really good tips today that have come from Mecca's fragrance education lead, Stephen Ross Glide and Sophie Marcoux, the founder of perfume brand Fikifolia, to share their four must know fragrance rules so that you can get the most out of whatever fragrance you are gifted this Christmas. Mads, you've got rule number one for.
- [12:18]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Me, and I would say this is not a first, the worst, second, the best. This is the best rule you will hear, which is dab, don't rub. Now, if your nana or grandmother was anything like mine, you were probably taught to spray your perfume and then rub your wrists together and then rub it into the back of your neck. And while I loved Nana's Elizabeth Arden Red Door fragrance at the time, Sophie says you need to dab instead of rubbing. And when we say dab, it's like a little tap, tap. Imagine they're like doing two little high fives together. I think that's a very, very important one. Sophie told us you'll often be told to dab, not rub perfume. And this is because the friction of rubbing creates heat and will subdue the notes. And most fragrances will have three levels of notes. So top note, middle note, and base notes. Joe's looking at me like no, Sherlock. And Annika is looking at me like.
- [13:11]
Joanna Fleming
She'S got her eyes wide open.
- [13:13]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Elaborate, please.
- [13:13]
Joanna Fleming
They often use the term Bruise the fragrance when you rub. Yeah.
- [13:17]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And then in terms of where to apply the perfume, Stephen from Mecca says, while there's no right or wrong place, some of the best spots are on the inside of the wrist and the back of the neck. And what I would say about the back of the neck is it's actually a really beautiful place to put fragrance, because when someone gives you a hug or a kiss on the cheek, that's where they would smell it. No one's like, Well, I was going to say no one nuzzles into your.
- [13:40]
Joanna Fleming
I was waiting for yourself.
- [13:43]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Apparently, the warmth said like a freshly engaged woman. Apparently, the warmth can really help the fragrance bloom on the skin. So any areas that are warm are a great option, AKA pulse points.
- [13:54]
Joanna Fleming
Well, I interviewed Michael Edwards from Fragrances of the World. He's, like, one of the best. Noses going around, and his tip was actually to spray the back of your knees.
- [14:03]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Oh, yeah.
- [14:04]
Joanna Fleming
Which I never would have thought to do that. But, yeah, he said backs of your knees because it gets sweaty in there.
- [14:10]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
It makes sense.
- [14:11]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. So it does make sense. It's warm.
- [14:12]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Would you do your cleavage as well?
- [14:14]
Joanna Fleming
Maybe. We'll talk about that later, actually, because I have some discussion around spritzing perfume directly on your skin, because I would.
- [14:22]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Always do, like, here in the crease of my elbows. So am I doing anything right?
- [14:26]
Joanna Fleming
I feel like that's good. Yeah, sweetie, yeah. And warm. Mads never actually said sweaty places. I just said that.
- [14:34]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Pulse points people a much more elevated way of saying it.
- [14:39]
Joanna Fleming
Okay, so that's Mads. Rule one is dab, don't rub. Rule two is spritz on clothes and hair, but with caution.
- [14:48]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I do.
- [14:49]
Joanna Fleming
So if you want your perfume to last throughout the day, spritzing it on your hair and clothes is the way to go. Sophie explains that the stable temperature of our clothes and our hair allows for improved scent longevity. So you don't get that sillage kind of fading really quickly. So she said. I'm often asked if perfume will cause damage to your hair or clothes. Industry standard perfume bottles dispense about 0.1 mil of liquid. So really, the amount of product sprayed is not likely to cause harm to your hair or clothes. But she suggests spraying perfume after you use your heat tools. So you're not like, spritz it in and then running a straightener through. That feels like, not a good idea. Yeah. Really important tip.
- [15:30]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Put the Dyson Air wrap down.
- [15:32]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
So happy you clarified that.
- [15:34]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. And Stephen also suggested opting for hair perfumes instead of regular fragrances. He said fragrances have a high concentration of perfume oils and alcohol in their compositions, and they can weigh down the hair while direct contact with the alcohol can obviously dry out the hair. So dedicated hair perfumes are often formulated with oils that are nourishing. They have a lower concentration of perfume oil. So that can be a really great way to get the most out of your fragrance. I actually used to have the Szechuan hair perfume, which is really nice, and that's got some protective ingredients in it as well as the fragrance.
- [16:04]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
May I offer a tidbit on this as well? Absolutely, if you want to shop like a luxury fragrance house. But price point can be limiting. A lot of them now will do a hair fragrance, so it's a really nice way to kind of play into that brand. So dip takes one. Byredo, do one.
- [16:19]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah.
- [16:19]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Trying to think of anyone else. They're the kind of the two that are coming to the top of my mind. But it's a lot cheaper than their fragrance. And it's quite nice because they usually in something that's a little bit lighter than glass or it'll be a smaller bottle. So it's like, easy to throw in your handbag.
- [16:32]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I love that.
- [16:32]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [16:33]
Joanna Fleming
Good little tip. And Stephen also recommended giving your cotton socks a bit of a spritz of perfume as well. Even better than the back of the knees. So that can help to increase the perfume sillage, apparently.
- [16:45]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah.
- [16:45]
Joanna Fleming
Which is a great tip. I like that.
- [16:47]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So it literally is head, shoulders, knees and toes. Knees and.
- [16:51]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. Also no clarifies.
- [16:53]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
No ears, no mouth.
- [16:54]
Joanna Fleming
No. No. Oh, she's only had one glass of champagne, guys. But I should clarify as well, sillage is like a fragrance nerds word for the scent trail that the perfume leaves behind when it evaporates.
- [17:07]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah.
- [17:07]
Joanna Fleming
So it's like what you smell the waft.
- [17:09]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah. Do you know what? I actually do? So I will sometimes spray my perfume in the air and then like.
- [17:13]
Joanna Fleming
And then walk through it. Yeah.
- [17:14]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
So am I the sillage? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Okay, I'm onto something also to loop.
- [17:19]
Joanna Fleming
Back to the spraying directly on the skin. I generally will say be very mindful of just spraying perfume directly on your chest because there's essential oils and alcohols in fragrances and they can make you more photosensitive and they can also be irritating and drying. So I just completely avoid spraying fragrances directly onto like my chest or neck area. I will typically do like a spritz across my clothes and the bottom of my hair. And that's pretty much where my fragrance goes. I don't even put it on my pulse points.
- [17:49]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Throw it behind the back of the neck.
- [17:51]
Joanna Fleming
I might. Yeah, yeah. Now that I know that one, I might.
- [17:53]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Thanks, Steve.
- [17:54]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. Because that's always going to be protected from the sun as well.
- [17:56]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Exactly.
- [17:57]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
There we go.
- [17:58]
Joanna Fleming
Sun smart Queen Rule three is layer your fragrances. Yeah, you were going to come in with something there. So both Stephen and Sophie told us that fragrance layering is one of their favorite perfume rules. Same with me. I do really like doing this as well. Stephen said layering two fragrances is a really easy way to support the longevity of your fragrance while also adding a little twist of personality to the existing fragrance that you have. I like that. One of my favorite fragrances to do this with is Juliet Has a Gun. Not a perfume. It's a molecular fragrance. So it smells different on absolutely everybody, but when you layer it with another fragrance, it just kind of transforms how that smells.
- [18:37]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah.
- [18:38]
Joanna Fleming
And if you wear the same signature fragrance every day, it can be a really good way to change that up just slightly without completely switching to another fragrance entirely.
- [18:47]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And I think it's a great tip if the fragrance you do wear becomes really popular or someone in your life buys it, and maybe you're like, oh, that was kind of my signature scent. I feel like molecular fragrances have had a real. I was going to say glow up. They've kind of always been there, but there's a lot more of them in market now, so.
- [19:01]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Sure.
- [19:02]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Glossier you is one. There's DS and Durga, I don't know what. Which is such a cool name. It's like, I don't know what it smells like. It just, like, has a smell. That's me. It's a great way to kind of layer it and make your signature scent kind of amplified, but also more personalized to you.
- [19:16]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. And when it comes to actually doing the layering, you're probably wondering how to do that if you're not used to it. But Sophie's top tip was to spritz one side of your body with one scent and then the other side with the second scent. And then that allows the two perfumes to waft together rather than, like, mixing them on the skin, like, spraying them directly on top of each other.
- [19:33]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Okay.
- [19:34]
Joanna Fleming
So I know that that's. So that can stop the formulations from kind of becoming unst or creating a bit of a weird smell when they're put directly on top of each other. But for anyone new to the world of fragrance layering, she suggests opting for fragrance oils. She's got a collection of perfume oils that are singular notes. So like lavender, vanilla, sandalwood, oud. And she picks one, and then she'll apply it on her wrist and neck before spritzing the rest of her body with her perfume that she wanted to wear that day. So apparently, this is a great way to learn about layering scents, because then you're just adding one additional note to a scent that you already love instead of figuring out how to match two very different scents.
- [20:12]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah. Cool.
- [20:12]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah.
- [20:13]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Do you fragrance layer?
- [20:14]
Joanna Fleming
I do. I typically only do it with Juliet Has a Gun.
- [20:16]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And then what do you put on top of it?
- [20:18]
Joanna Fleming
Anything.
- [20:18]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Anything.
- [20:19]
Joanna Fleming
I mean, I've got so many fragrances.
- [20:20]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Okay. But like, gun to your head, life or death. Wow. That got violent quickly. It's just a perfect. Maddie. It's not that deep. What is your go to?
- [20:30]
Joanna Fleming
Oh, at the moment, it's Penhaligon Solaris.
- [20:34]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Oh, I haven't heard of that brand.
- [20:35]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah, Penhaligon's is great. Yeah. You should look into that.
- [20:38]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [20:38]
Joanna Fleming
Nice.
- [20:39]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I am such a fragrance.
- [20:41]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I know. What was that fragrance you were gatekeeping from us that you're not going to ever let us know about?
- [20:45]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
There's, like, two people at Shameless Media who've gone and bought it now, and I love them both. And I definitely copied them. Definitely copied you, Angie Zara before. So that's fine. No. Okay. I won't gag, but I'll just tell you what it is, because I'm a girl's girl. It's glossier. You as my base, and then my top is Maison Cravat.
- [21:03]
Joanna Fleming
I knew you were going to say yes.
- [21:05]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So that's my winter. Autumn.
- [21:06]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. Wow.
- [21:07]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
She's a fragrance wardrobe. And in summer. Spring it is Maison Francis Kirjan Satin Mood.
- [21:14]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Oh, nice.
- [21:15]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
But glossier. You has remained underneath. But I'm relatively new to that one.
- [21:18]
Joanna Fleming
The Mason Crivelli Papyrus molecular is stunning. I wish I had a full size. I only had a sample of it and very tempted to buy the full size.
- [21:26]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [21:27]
Joanna Fleming
Also, another one for layering is the Jo Loves is Jo Malone's brand that she now has.
- [21:32]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [21:33]
Joanna Fleming
They do a paintbrush, so it's like a gel, a fragrance gel, and you paint it on to your body, and then you can layer fragrances over the top of that.
- [21:41]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
How cool.
- [21:42]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
It's a shame that she's probably trademark. Jo Loves.
- [21:44]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. It's a shame I can't create my own brand. When that first launch Beauty, there were people Being like, is that Joe's brand?
- [21:52]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
It's okay. I work in marketing. I'll be with it.
- [21:55]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I actually love this. I've only recently discovered perfume balms and I had like a really beautiful one from Odess, like a really gorgeous Australian brand. And it's definitely so nice when you layer them in add on top. Like, it's something I've never even thought to do. But it's also so much more cost effective. Like the Odess stuff is so much cheaper than buying a full size bottle of perfume. Can you layer balms perfumes or can you layer balms as well on top of each other?
- [22:19]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah.
- [22:20]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Interesting.
- [22:21]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [22:22]
Joanna Fleming
I cracked open the rare beauty body moisturizer the other day. Firstly, really nice texture, but also the fragrance is amazing. And I wore it to bed and then I woke up the next day, I was like, I can still smell it. It's so good.
- [22:32]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Sign of a good body moisturizer.
- [22:34]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Nice.
- [22:34]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Anika, what's rule number four?
- [22:36]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Okay, rule number four, speaking of balms, is use hand cream as a base for your scent and don't forget to exfoliate first. Now I found this so interesting because we actually at work always have like hand balms and perfumes just in the bathrooms. And it's like, you know, just girls, girls.
- [22:52]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
She's looking after her employees. You're looking.
- [22:57]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
But it's actually funny, as I was reading the episode notes today, I was like, oh my God, we actually do that. And every time all of us come out of the bathroom with different, like hand balms on, we all smell different because of the perfumes that we're wearing. So I love this tip. So according to Stephen and Sophie, the best tip to help your fragrance last all day is to ensure your skin is well moisturized.
- [23:16]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah.
- [23:16]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
So Stephen said that the best moisturizers to opt for is always a hand cream, which I also love as well because I think you can chuck them in your bag. Also a little bit more cost effective. And he said, I simply apply the hand cream anywhere I know I'll be spritzing. A scented hand cream is often a little bit thicker and offers a beautiful amount of scent that will grip onto the skin, which is so true because I feel like you put them on and you instantly feel a little bit more luck.
- [23:40]
Joanna Fleming
Don't you feel like fragranced balms and body lotions really went out of fashion for a while? Remember in our mum's day, like Elizabeth Harden, Estee Lauder, they would all have that pack where they had the perfume and then they had the scented body lotion and I understand why they did that, but they went out of fashion for ages.
- [23:55]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, I know. They are very back in.
- [23:57]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah, agree.
- [23:58]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [23:59]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I know. I found it so interesting. And he also said a bonus tip is exfoliating the skin can really help with longevity. And if you have dry or flaky skin, as it slows off during the day, it will take your fragrance with it. So keep your skin super moisturized and then lay your perfume on top and it will just last. Yeah. All day.
- [24:17]
Joanna Fleming
Great tips. Love those.
- [24:18]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And we're going to go from one sexy thing to another sexy thing. And look, when I say Yochi, maybe you're not thinking sexy, but I just feel like, given this show is about brand, we have to talk about the fact that frozen yogurt chain Yochi has become one of the hottest, dare I say, sexiest friends of 2024.
- [24:37]
Joanna Fleming
I agree.
- [24:38]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
This conversation was sparked by a creator on TikTok, atrinamatius, and she said this.
- [24:45]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I am so convinced that Yo Chi is so popular because it's one of the only places that's not a pub, a club or a restaurant that's open after 8pm in Australia.
- [24:52]
Joanna Fleming
Like, you can go and you can.
- [24:53]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Just spend five or ten dollars. You don't have to fork out like.
- [24:56]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
80 bucks on a meal or on.
- [24:57]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Drinks or whatever it is.
- [24:58]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
And you can just like sit and have a yacht with your mates. Like, I fully reckon that is why it's always busy. There's always a line and people love it.
- [25:06]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So some background for you. Yoti was founded in 2012 by billionaire Toy maker Manny Stall and his stepson Paul Solomon. Their first store was in Balaclava and locations in Hawthorne, Carlton.
- [25:17]
Joanna Fleming
I remember going to that Balaclava store.
- [25:19]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [25:19]
Joanna Fleming
Back in 2012.
- [25:20]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And then Malvern followed. So there were four at the time. In 2020, the chains, four stores were bought by Oliver and Riley Alice, who happen to be the sons of Boost Juice founder Janine Ellis. So I think, safe to say, probably.
- [25:34]
Joanna Fleming
What year was that?
- [25:34]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Sorry, 2020.
- [25:36]
Joanna Fleming
Right. Okay. This explains a lot.
- [25:38]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yes. So over four years, Oliver and Riley have expanded the business to 38 stores across Australia. And by the end of next year, they're expected to run at least 60 yo cheese nationwide.
- [25:49]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Wow.
- [25:50]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So under the Alice brothers, Yochi has really become a hotspot for young people. And I can attest to this because I live very, very close to their Malvern store here in Australia. And when I tell you, I feel like the oldest person in the room When I walk in. And at 29, that's probably not where you should feel too old. But in an article for Broadsheet, Yo Chi's chief operating officer, Brooke Rogers said that people aren't usually grabbing Yo Chi to take away. They want to sit and hang and make the most of that space. And it's the music and the atmosphere. Social connection is at the heart of the way that we design our spaces. It's very deliberate and I have to say, I've never got a. That's a lie. I got one takeaway. Yo she once she was going through a breakup. There was no way we were going to sit there and have her in tears.
- [26:34]
Joanna Fleming
Don't you feel like Froyo just had the biggest lull in popularity though? Because we had Messina, we had Peter Pipo. Yes. Peter Pippo. Like we had all of these gelati places that then opened after the boom of Froyo in probably 2010. 2011.
- [26:50]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [26:51]
Joanna Fleming
And they obviously opened those stores in 2012. So that was like really their hype moment. And then I think it died off for ages. And I've only just in probably the last 12 months been like, oh, when did frozen yoghurt come back?
- [27:03]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Right.
- [27:04]
Joanna Fleming
What did I miss?
- [27:05]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
The way that this place goes off.
- [27:07]
Joanna Fleming
It's really hard to lines around the block.
- [27:10]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. And it's like the date spot for teenagers. It's like they've replaced underage discos with. They were a thing I want to be back in my day. They've 100% being replaced as the Gen Z date spot.
- [27:22]
Joanna Fleming
I was just going to say it's an accessible date spot spot for Gen Z's but I actually saw this Tik Tok a while ago. Did you guys see this guy on Tik Tok?
- [27:30]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
He's hilarious.
- [27:31]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
A dick.
- [27:32]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. He was complaining that he took this girl to a yoi store and then she got the biggest option and she got all these add ons and he was just complaining about how expensive it was, which was just like the most pointless Tik Tok ever. But in a general sense it is a more accessible option than taking someone out for dinner or like doing anything that's typically more expensive that you're probably going to be paying $150 for instead of paying. I don't know what their retail price.
- [27:57]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
For large yogi is, but depends what.
- [27:59]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Toppers you get according to him. Literally she went all out on every topping and she looks good on her. The comments. I know. I was like hun, like of course.
- [28:08]
Joanna Fleming
You'Re going to go out and get so many. That's the fun of it.
- [28:10]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I was literally losing it looking at that TikTok because even, like, the comments honestly sent me, like, don't go to yo chair if you're on a McFlurry budget.
- [28:18]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah.
- [28:20]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And I mean, two things on one, if that girl who went on that date is listening, I will personally take you for yochi and let you get whatever topping you want. And I hope that one of the Ellis brothers is listening, because one absolute kudos on what you've done. But to whoever you hired to be your social media marketing manager, give them a pay rise and a fat bonus at the end of this year. Because what they have done on TikTok, they have met their customer exactly where they are and they have responded in due time on trends. There is no boardroom discussion. They have just let that person run wild. And I think they need to be applauded for what they're doing because it's down and dirty. It's native to the platform. They're totally in the zeitgeist. They're facing it, like, absolutely head on. And I think within 24 hours of that TikTok going viral of that stupid boy in his car talking about how she got all the toppers, clearly I've got a real bone to pick with him. They were like, you know, when you bring the date and they let you have whatever you want, that kind of went viral off the back of it.
- [29:18]
Joanna Fleming
I think that's very reflective of young owners. They're obviously in that demographic themselves, and so they're able to speak to this stuff very easily. Obviously, their social media manager is doing all of this behind the scenes. But not having to go to them be like, this is a trend. They're just like, yep, do whatever. Whereas if you had a boomer who was leading the charge, that might take three weeks to get approved and it's done.
- [29:40]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Takes three to five business days for them to understand the concept. Can I ask if any of you been on a date at your. You?
- [29:47]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
No, I haven't. Like, back in my day, it was like Ben and Jerry's. You know, like, maybe you went to a movie and then you got Ben and Jerry.
- [29:52]
Joanna Fleming
I might have. Back in the day. I just don't remember. Yeah, yeah.
- [29:55]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Have you met?
- [29:56]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
No, I did have a guy be like, oh, have you not ever tried yoi? And I was like, no, I don't want to go. I went the next day because I wanted to try this. I didn't want to Go with him. I actually did go post dinner once though. So the first time I went, I was like. And when I say dinner at a girlfriend's house, I'm in my noo news like fully shouldn't have been seen in public in what I was wearing. But I was like, I didn't know how popular it was. So I've walked in on a random Thursday night, head to toe, noo news. Ugg boots, not a scrap of makeup, hair in a scraggy bun, and I'm like, oh my God, this is the uncoolest I could ever feel. 1. Everyone around me is 12 years younger and I'm in head to toe, no news. And they're like dolled up. They're dressed up to go to Yoti.
- [30:33]
Joanna Fleming
Also, have you guys noticed the amount of acai bowl places opening up? No, I think that's the next thing.
- [30:39]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I actually love this, like health as well theoret. Like back in my club rat days, that would just be list of uncool things to do.
- [30:45]
Joanna Fleming
Instead of getting a cheeseburger on the way home. Are they all getting yo Chi? Yeah.
- [30:48]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
It's kind of like going to Green cup though, which is a franchise in Victoria. And sorry, those interstate look it up. I'm sure you've got your variant there. But again, feeling real old in there.
- [30:59]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Do you know what I actually love on TikTok as well is like the rise of Matcha bars. And like when I was in New York, I loved going to a matcha bar and it was just like you can get your different layers and your different not toppings, but like the so many different types of matcha. And I saw this TikTok in London and there was like a DJ set, like so many, I would want to say millennials like me in the matcha bar, like partying on a Sunday. And it was like their absolute vibe because everyone was just like, you know this health is about the era. I'm like, I'm vibing this.
- [31:26]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Maybe that'll be the next iteration we say of Yachi is a live dj, maybe.
- [31:31]
Joanna Fleming
Well, from health as well to chocolate treats in your orders, we're going to be exploring the role Tim Tams will play in Adore Beauty's expansion into stores. But let's first hear a word from today's sponsor.
- [31:45]
Lucy Hunt
Hi, guys. Lucy here. Every now and then a trend comes in and just takes over our entire office. And I have to say right now it's definitely thongs. They've made a huge comeback this season and they don't seem to be going anywhere soon. And honestly, if it's okay by Hailey and Kendall, it's okay by us. So if you are looking for the absolute best thongs, it has to be Archie's. They've perfected the song game. They've took that classic summer staple and completely revolutionized it for comfort while still having that chic, effortless shape that's so in. They're basically regular thongs, but better. So they've got a contoured footbed with an arch and a snug, adjustable strap for that tailored, personalized fit. This stops them from, like, sliding off or means your toes don't have to grip on for dear life. If you know, you know. But one of my favorite things is that they actually come in 18 different colors. They're super sleek and minimal, so they've got everything to go with your wardrobe. If you're wanting to break into the trend or just need an upgrade for your thongs for the summer, check out Archies. Thank you so much to Archies for making this episode of Stylish possible.
- [32:55]
Joanna Fleming
Okay, so my former employer, Adore Beauty, are going into bricks and mortar stores, and I never thought I would see the day. From the time that I worked there, it was always, we are never doing stores. So when this, this was like, there was whispers of this as I was leaving, that stores were going to be the next step. And I think this is very indicative of what is going on in the general retail market at the moment. We've seen brands like Henny go into stores. Any others pop into mind?
- [33:23]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Dish.
- [33:23]
Joanna Fleming
Dish. Yeah. So in unison.
- [33:25]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Thanks.
- [33:27]
Joanna Fleming
So we're seeing the same from Adore Beauty. I think the stores are Southland and Water Gardens. So kind of going to outer suburban areas. And they've really thought out who the target market are in this space. So last month, Sasha Lang, Adore Beauty's new CEO, shared the business's three year plan with investors, laying out the goal of opening 25 bricks and mortar stores in prime shopping districts around Australia. Wow. Now, back when I joined Adore Beauty.
- [33:55]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Back in any time?
- [33:56]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah, Back in my day in 2016, when I joined the business, no one knew what Adore Beauty was. So I would say where I worked, they're like, what's that? And then as time went on, I would say I worked at Door Beauty. And they go, oh, the one with the Tim Tam. So this has become like a key thing for the brand. Like, you know, when you get an adorable beauty order that you're going to have a Tim Tam in there. And not only the Tim Tam, but they've made themselves a bit of a destination for premium skin care and beauty products. But I think personally, I do think their offering of skincare is great. So their online presence is what made them a little bit different to retailers like Mecca Sephora. It's more of a convenience retailer, I would say. Like, as someone who has worked with the brand, people are shopping with them because they have extremely fast delivery.
- [34:44]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah.
- [34:44]
Joanna Fleming
So if you've run out of shampoo and you're like, oh my God, I need that to come tomorrow, you can order. And you're likely, if you live in a metropolitan area, to get it the next day, especially if you live in Melbourne.
- [34:52]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I have had Same day and I've been like, thank you. Like, that happened to me.
- [34:56]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah.
- [34:56]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
And I also ran out of foundation once and I was like, I'm going out. And it was literally there with its Tim Tam same day.
- [35:01]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. So the one thing that they want to kind of retain when they go into stores is the Tim Tam. And I'm interested to see how this plays out because I think there's something about receiving it in an order. Yeah. That is a little bit more rewarding than just getting it in your bag when you're at the shops because you could just go and buy, you know, a Krispy Kreme. It's not a surprise.
- [35:20]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Like, understand what is the synergy between Tim Tams and Adore Beauty? What made them pick that? Like, everyone loves a freebie, don't get me wrong.
- [35:27]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah.
- [35:28]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
But what is the actual synergy between Tim Tams and them?
- [35:31]
Joanna Fleming
There really wasn't one, but it was an Australian treat.
- [35:33]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
It's like Vegemite.
- [35:35]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. I'm from Memory. I think it was about being Australian, New Zealand.
- [35:39]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Thank you.
- [35:40]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I'm very patriotic to my people. Okay, sorry, carry on.
- [35:43]
Joanna Fleming
Lang told Smart Company that these freebies as well as the loyalty benefits will continue in store, saying that they'll be bringing what customers like about the digital experience into physical stores. Those surprise and delight elements and those value add elements are absolutely going to present themselves in the store environment. We won't be providing customers with a different experience online through In Store. So you'll absolutely see customers getting Tim Tams and those goodie bags and those gifts with purchase in store as well. He told the publication.
- [36:09]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Interesting.
- [36:10]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I think as well, obviously there's a lot of retailers, as you mentioned, Henny and Dish or two. I think another one that you could probably speak to is Style Runner, who were traditionally online and rolled out Quite aggressively, a sort of retail footprint after being acquired by Accent Group. I think it's probably just that post covert behavior that we're seeing where people want to touch, feel, explore, play and that real return to going to bricks and mortar and discovering something. And I feel like we all spend a lot of time being chronically online during COVID It does feel nice to go to a shopping center or a store.
- [36:41]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. I will be really interested to see how this goes given that Mecca has such a monopoly on the market. Like even Sephora can't compete with Mecca. So I do think that's going to be really interesting. Something funny about the Tim Tams, though. A few years ago we were thinking of like April Fool's jokes and one of the girls in our team came up with the idea to replace the Tim Tam with Sultanas and then announce it on our socials. It went wild. Like this concept, people were losing it. We were getting DMs being like, no, you can't do that. Like, people were going crazy. Like, the comments were so funny. People were so attached to the Tim Tam. And that was the moment we really realized, oh, okay, we actually can't remove the Tim Tammy from orders ever, because there will be a riot. Yeah, so people really touch the Tim Tam. But in saying that, people also love to complain about free shit. So there would also be people being like, oh, I don't want to Tim Tam.
- [37:36]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Like, yeah, okay. It's so interesting because like, obviously when you think of beauty and you think of the beauty space, I love when I get my Mecca orders and guys, I will do anything to retain my membership.
- [37:46]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
What level are you out of?
- [37:48]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Level three. And I heard there's a level four, so I'm like, how much more do I have to spend? But getting those travel size minis, they're like relevant, right? Because it's like, okay, so I can like kind of pack this and go. And it's things maybe I wouldn't usually buy. I can try them. I get the relevance of being like an Upsell, so to speak. And then like Aesop. Their samples I find are so useful and I just love to have them on hand as well. So for me, again, the synergy between this Tim Tam situation, I don't really get it, but I appreciate it.
- [38:11]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. Also up until I worked there, I haven't worked there for over 12 months. Just to clarify. But in my time there, there was no discount on the Tim Tams. Oh, so there was no deal between Arnott and Adore, despite all the Free coverage that aren't. It's for getting as a result. But I did hear the whispers of negotiations going on, but I don't know where that has landed. But as far as I am aware, they were. Yeah. Not getting any special treatment.
- [38:36]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Does Adore offer free shipping as well?
- [38:38]
Joanna Fleming
Yes.
- [38:38]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Oh, wow. Okay. So that's a little bit of a hit to the bottom line, but respect.
- [38:43]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. They love their customers, apparently.
- [38:46]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
We love you to Adore.
- [38:49]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So today we have a new segment called Here Today or Here to Stay. We actually workshop quite a lot of times, but we really liked one that rhymed in the Slack Channel. Jo is going to kick us off today with our very first segment.
- [39:01]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. So we will be deciding in this segment whether it's a product or product concept.
- [39:07]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
A trend can be anything.
- [39:08]
Joanna Fleming
We're going to bring anything to this segment. We make the rules.
- [39:11]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
No cleaning products. I promise. I will bet it myself.
- [39:14]
Joanna Fleming
So we're going to be deciding whether we think a trend or a product or a brand is here for the long haul or just a flash in the pan. To start us off, we're deciding whether or not beef tallow is a product that will become a mainstay of our skincare routines. This was going off in our Slack channel, I think, last week, and I had Mission Zara, the host of Shameless, asking me whether it was something they needed to go and buy. And I very quickly said, no, you do not need to be doing that. So if you haven't seen it. Beef tallow has been absolutely everywhere, popularized by tradwife influencers like Nara Smith and a whole host of other creators on TikTok, most of them raving about how nourishing it is, how it transformed their skin. It's a miracle product. A recent article on the cut titled why is everyone putting beef tallow on their Face? Shows how popular this product has become. It is genuinely like what is swirling around in, I guess we could call it the skincare world. Now, traditionally was a cooking product, but now it's made its way onto our faces. So closer to home, Australian publication Fashion Journal has called beef tallow the new favorite DIY moisturizer for a steadily growing niche. But let's talk about what beef tallow actually is. And I think tallow sugarcoats it. I think that makes it seem a bit more eyebrow palatable. Yeah. But it's rendered beef fat.
- [40:35]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah.
- [40:35]
Joanna Fleming
So just to be really upfront about what it is, it is used as a rich face and body moisturizer and people that are singing its praises are saying that it can improve your skin barrier and lock in moisture. So, yeah, this is kind of where we discuss us our opinions on it. Who wants to go first?
- [40:52]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Has anyone tried it?
- [40:54]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
No. Shan't be.
- [40:55]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
No.
- [40:56]
Joanna Fleming
Do you need to ask that question?
- [40:57]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I know.
- [40:57]
Joanna Fleming
I just.
- [40:58]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I need to know because, like, in my mind I'm like, okay, so the whole concept of it kind of reminds me of like coconut oil. And I remember at one point people telling me, because it's like, you know, when it's warm, it's a liquid, and then when it's cold, it's like a balm.
- [41:10]
Joanna Fleming
It firms up. Yeah, yeah.
- [41:12]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
And so it reminded me of that concept. But obviously the screams Nara Smith. And I don't know if I'm into everything she kind of raves about. But then there's been so many peculiar trends in beauty, like the snail mucin and like, obviously Korean beauty trends. Always so ahead of the game. So I'm like, am I missing out on something here? Is this something I should be into? But it is rendered fat, so maybe not.
- [41:32]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I just think, God, there are so many trend cycles happening right now and they are moving really rapidly and I'd really like this one to maybe move as rapid as the others. I just think there's a real trend, obviously in animal and natural. And I use quotations for that. I just think, like, chemicals have been demonized and then 100%. We're talking about this one week and last week we're talking about the. The rumored $300,000 USD facelift Lindsay Lohan's had. So it's like, you know, there's kind of two worlds of beauty going on right now. And I think we're seeing people on tick tock talk about how great it's been for their skin or like, I'm a dermatologist. And I'm going to tell you how I'm like, who are you? And is that actually your qualification? Are you a good dermatologist? Are you a skin specialist? Like, what degrees have you done? I'm like, I could get on and be like, I'm a doctor and my advice is, yes, I'm not a doctor.
- [42:16]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
I'd be like, okay, meds, tell me more literally.
- [42:18]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I just think there's so many TikTok hooks too. And I knew we were going to do segment. I was just going on looking up beef tallow and I was like, oh, please do not serve me any answer. Because, like, I'm so. You're buying up the wrong tree. I'm not the Target market. Yeah, but there was so many, like, hooks. Like, here's how I got rid of my cystic acne. Let me show you how I've had the glowy skin in my life. Dermatologist, you know the product dermatologists don't want you to know about. Yeah, I'm like, dermatologists aren't gatekeeping the answers to us. Like, Joe, I mean, you're the skin.
- [42:47]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Take us to the expert.
- [42:48]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, give us the rundown.
- [42:49]
Joanna Fleming
Well, I feel like you're barking up the right tree with the chemicals of demons kind of thread there because I think this is just the perfect example of the appeal to nature fallacy. That because it comes from something that's, you know, a plant or animal, that it must be better for you than the product that's been specifically formulated in a sterile environment for use on your skin. Yeah, it's a really hard one for me to swallow. I have had a few clients using Beef Talent's gone straight out of their routine.
- [43:14]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I would love to watch how your facial muscles twitch.
- [43:17]
Joanna Fleming
I try not to be judgmental about routines, but sometimes with things like that, I'm like, okay, that's not gonna be doing a lot. Like, let's put an actual moisturizer in there because that's going to do a lot more. But yeah, I will say that beef tallow naturally does contain some antioxidants, some vitamins, some essential fatty acids. And that may help with skins that have really never used skincare before. And I think most of these people that are saying this is a miracle product, they've probably got impaired barriers or they've just never used the right skincare for them. So they've used this product that is very hydrating, is going to give you a bit more like skin softness and hydration or moisture. And they think that it's the miracle answer to all of their problems. But it, in my opinion is not suited to acne prone skin. It is only suited to very, very dry skin. If you really wanted to use it. I don't personally recommend it at all, but there is a risk of it going off really quickly. If you're using pure beef tallow, it's going to go rancid.
- [44:11]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
That was my next question. To me, I think of the bacteria. And if it's pure from an animal, when do you have to use that?
- [44:17]
Joanna Fleming
But yeah, well, I would depend on the product. So if it has been designed, I guess for use on the skin, then it probably has gone through a bit of a process. And naturally Beef Tallow has gone through a process to purify it.
- [44:28]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yeah.
- [44:29]
Joanna Fleming
But still it's not going to last forever. It's not designed to last like a skincare product is. And it's not packaged in the way that skincare products are packaged. So there's that local butcher. Yeah. So I'd say it's only really suitable for very dry skins. But. But when you're looking for a moisturizer, we've got three categories of ingredients to look for and they're your humectants, your occlusives and your emollients. So our humectants, like hyaluronic acid, they draw moisture into the skin. Our emollients, like ceramides, they help to keep the skin smooth and they prevent moisture loss. And then we've got our occlusives, like shea butter, they seal in moisture. But beef tallow is really heavy on the emollients because it's very rich in triglycerides. So that will offer some skin softening benefits and moisturizing benefits, maybe even reparative benefits if you've got a little bit of an impaired barrier. But on an impaired barrier I'd be worried about introducing bacteria onto the skin as well. And also beef tallow doesn't smell great either. So I think it's just not something that's really worth trying in my opinion. Just get a moisturizer that has all of those key ingredients in it, your humectants, your emollients, your occlusives.
- [45:38]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [45:38]
Joanna Fleming
And you'll probably get a better result with your skin, to be honest.
- [45:41]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
You try like a plant based version as well. Because when I was looking into this a little bit more, there was like the pumpkin seed oils and all those different types of oils. Do they do the same thing essentially, but maybe a little bit more.
- [45:51]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah. But not be fat.
- [45:52]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Yes. I'm now actually envisioning because it will.
- [45:55]
Joanna Fleming
Act as an oil on the skin. So beef tallow acts as that oil. Very, very oily as you could imagine. Like Macca's fries used to be deep fried in beef tallow.
- [46:05]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Oh, you're sending me.
- [46:06]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah, so I don't think it is.
- [46:08]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Anymore, but ye, it's so interesting though how we're seeing such a rise and like, you know, the carnivore diet and like even sticks of butter and raw milk and all these things. Like coming back into the zeitgeist again, I'm just like, what are all these like fads and where are they coming from?
- [46:22]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I mean, I'm all for butter. I just don't want the beef fat on my face.
- [46:26]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah.
- [46:26]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So if we're voting here today or here to stay, if there was a vote button to leave it yesterday, that would probably be mine.
- [46:33]
Joanna Fleming
Definitely not one to stay.
- [46:34]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
This is.
- [46:35]
Joanna Fleming
This is going to be. It will go as quickly as it's come.
- [46:38]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Okay.
- [46:38]
Joanna Fleming
Yeah.
- [46:39]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Three. Three. Okay, great. Well, that is all for today's episode. We started so strong and so stylish with Joe's engagement and ended on B fat, but nonetheless, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you both, Annika, Joshy Smith, and Joanna Fleming in your newly engaged love bubble for being here with us. Remember, you can drop us an email anytime at style-ishameless media. Or you can slide into our DMS over at style underscore ish au if you've been on a yoti J, maybe send us a review of that. Let us know what you want. And we can't forget to thank the lovely Shameless media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt, who has enjoyed a glass of bubbles with us in the studio today, and senior podcast producer Kate Emmerburg. We'll be right back with you next Wednesday when we ask Joe when the wedding is.
- [47:25]
Joanna Fleming
We need to finish this bottle of champagne first.
- [47:27]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Cheers.
- [47:27]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Cheers.
- [47:28]
Joanna Fleming
Cheers. Bye.
- [47:29]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
And suck my son in half.
- [47:35]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Oh, yay.
- [47:39]
Joanna Fleming
Cheers.
- [47:39]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Eyes, eyes. Always look someone in the eyes. I'm single. I can't have seven years bad luck.
- [47:45]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be aboriginal land. Hey, guys, it's Zara here. Are you struggling this summer because all your favorite shows are on break? Fear not, because our recently launched interview show, Inherited is working right through the summer break. Yes, that means fresh interviews every single week. If you've not yet listened to an episode of Inherited, we ask our guests for the recipes, rules, relics, and rituals that have shaped who they are today. My favorite interview so far was with Mia Friedman because of how honest and, dare I say, unfiltered she was. Even though Mia hosts podcast every single week, I feel like we absolutely saw a different side of her in this chat. Here's a little snippet.
- [48:29]
Joanna Fleming
It's a weird kind of grief. Pregnancy, loss. You're grieving the idea of someone you're grieving, someone you've never met, someone you've got no memories of. And so what this box is full of is the ultrasound pictures that I had of her and some cards that people sent me with flowers after she died. What's hard is that you don't have any proof that she even existed.
- [48:52]
Ana Kadoshi Smith
Search inherited on any of your favorite podcast apps and get listening. Your summer road trip is sorted.