Madison Sullivan Thorpe (1:55)

Really?

Annika Doshi Smith (1:55)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (1:55)

I'm obsessed with the maternity fits. Like, I knew they'd be good but they've like, exceeded expectation.

Annika Doshi Smith (2:00)

Oh, you're very kind. I think it's about to get harder, but actually I've had a lot of people reach out wanting to know more on the, like, maternity fit front. And I refuse to wear maternity labels, but I would love anyone to actually DM me or DM the POD if they have maternity bra recommendations.

Joanna Fleming (2:17)

Because the girls, we've heard all about Annika's nipples. Oh, yeah, Mike.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (2:23)

Which we won't share and we'll save you.

Annika Doshi Smith (2:25)

I mean, if you want to know, I will Tell you, but like, the changes. The changes.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (2:29)

Maybe that's like a personal reel you can give to your audience. Because I don't know that my ears have stopped pleading yet. But I love that for you. Yeah. It's safe to say you're not in the itty bitty titty community anymore.

Annika Doshi Smith (2:40)

Yeah, we've upgraded to juicy, juicy mangoes.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (2:42)

Yeah. I mean, sad to see you go, but loved having you while we did.

Annika Doshi Smith (2:46)

Back. We'll be back.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (2:47)

All right, well, I'm actually sitting in Jo's seat today. Cause Annika's been a little bit sick and we're keeping strong social distancing before this wedding. And I am. I've really taken a bullet for the two of us. I'm just gonna wear it so it only feels right that I say, what are we swapping in today? And you know what, Jo, because you've had to move chairs, why don't you go first?

Joanna Fleming (3:05)

Well, I feel like I should tell you what's coming up on the episode before I jump into the swap.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (3:09)

Sorry, I got all confused. You did.

Joanna Fleming (3:12)

All right, well, today we are covering the Dua Lipa and Augustina Spader collab, whether Australia has ambition problem and the rise of the wedding camcorder, which is very fitting given that we're not long out from my own wedding. But first, let's get into the swap. Annika, you're gonna have to go first.

Annika Doshi Smith (3:29)

I know. That just threw me. You're staring at Mads. I'm staring at you.

Joanna Fleming (3:32)

Who's doing it?

Annika Doshi Smith (3:33)

It's my role. This is my time to shine.

Joanna Fleming (3:35)

You have to go first.

Annika Doshi Smith (3:35)

Okay, so I actually wanted to swap in today the Huda beauty contour lip stain, because it's literally that good. But Zara bet me to it and she swapped it in last week. So guys, if you haven't got it yet, please add to cut. Cause it's fabulous. Phenomenal. Honestly, I'm obsessed with Joe's lip blushing and I feel like it kind of replicates that because it's smudge proof and does not move. But I will give you another one. And this is kind of like a three for one, I would say. But if you are not following Coco Shiffer, please give her a follow on Instagram because she is iconic. She is a New York based celebrity stylist and she's really well known for her capsule wardrobes. So she did a real on Monday morning. Love that I just said a real because Joe always says a real means that it's dead or something.

Joanna Fleming (4:16)

Yeah.

Annika Doshi Smith (4:16)

Once he's reels.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (4:18)

It's over.

Annika Doshi Smith (4:18)

And I'm like, no, it's not. Reels are like, I don't know my Roman Empire at this point. But anyway, on Monday morning, she posted a video saying three things that will instantly cheapen an outfit. And so no shade to anyone who does do these things. But if you want to instantly elevate, please take the feedback on board, because I really agree. So the first one was wrinkles. Steaming an outfit will instantly elevate any look, so especially white tees. And I know we all wear white tees and just like, baby tees, cute little tees all the time here, but don't you agree, like, instantly steaming, it just makes you look so much more crisp.

Joanna Fleming (4:54)

100%. You should never try on a dress that you want to wear to an event with crinkles in it, Amy, because it looks like a completely different outfit.

Annika Doshi Smith (5:02)

Yeah. And imagine if someone showed up to your wedding in an unstamed garment.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (5:07)

Well, we might have that case in two weeks. Of which you are forgiven. It will be okay.

Annika Doshi Smith (5:11)

I'll be on steaming patrol. Katie number two now. Too many accessories as well, she said, can be too much. She gave the reference of wearing, like, gold, silver, different shades of gold. And she said, stick to sitting here.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (5:25)

In my next paddle.

Annika Doshi Smith (5:26)

I know. Shivering in your boots. She said, stick to one statement and think less is more. So she had a really simple outfit on. Really beautiful, like, chain necklace. No, you're very, like. You're really killing the.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (5:38)

The vibe.

Annika Doshi Smith (5:38)

I think everything's tonal. All the silvers are matching. We've got our bling.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (5:42)

Okay, thanks.

Annika Doshi Smith (5:43)

So, yeah, Coco would agree. But then she also said logomania. She actually called this logo salad, which made me laugh. And she said, focus on one logo or none at all. And in her look, she had, like, the Gucci bag. The Gucci bag. Miu Miu top. I'm like, we get it, you love your labels, but let's pull it back a little. And it just instantly refined it to one logo and it was very chic.

Joanna Fleming (6:04)

Yeah, I love all those tips.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (6:06)

Yeah, me too.

Annika Doshi Smith (6:06)

I love her. Please follow her if you don't already.

Joanna Fleming (6:08)

I will. I'm going to look her up after this, Mads.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (6:11)

Do you know what, Jo? I'm like reverse swapping something you've swapped in. Oh, it took me a very long time to buy this because it was pricey.

Joanna Fleming (6:20)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (6:21)

But the osmosis rescue and calm.

Joanna Fleming (6:24)

Oh, she's joined the club finally.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (6:28)

I have. And you know what? I really struggle buying skincare because as we know, I worked at Mecca for a long time. I got 40% off. So just being transparent, paying retail price for skin care kind of hurts. Yeah, it hurts. So went to my skin therapist, the beautiful Angelina at Skin angel, shout out to her because I've literally been going there since I was. I got a voucher, I think when I was 22. So that's like two years ago now. Kidding. That is eight years for those playing at home. That math is that I am 30. You had recommended rescue to me.

Joanna Fleming (6:58)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (6:58)

Which I had bought. But she also recommended calm.

Joanna Fleming (7:01)

I recommend calm flat out.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (7:03)

And I really do have to say it's been a long time since I've said I've seen a significant difference in my skin. But I would really say particularly those pesky hormonal breakouts. Yeah. I'm willing to make sacrifices elsewhere, but those two. A couple of other things I've, you know, but we do a swap every week, so I'll save those ones.

Joanna Fleming (7:21)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (7:21)

But yeah, I mean, we're also in the midst of Black Friday, so I know they're on sale at a couple.

Joanna Fleming (7:27)

Of places very rarely go on sale. Yeah, I don't know if they're marked down yet. I've been telling my clients, keep an eye. Oh.

Annika Doshi Smith (7:34)

On a door.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (7:35)

Should I Live Google.

Joanna Fleming (7:36)

Yeah, do a live Google.

Annika Doshi Smith (7:37)

And while you're googling, Jojo, do you know this is pregnancy safe?

Joanna Fleming (7:42)

No, because it's a retinal.

Annika Doshi Smith (7:43)

Oh, yeah.

Joanna Fleming (7:45)

Rescue you can.

Annika Doshi Smith (7:45)

Okay.

Joanna Fleming (7:46)

But calm.

Annika Doshi Smith (7:46)

You can't come. I can't. Okay, so maybe I'll look into the rescue. Yes. Because the hormones.

Joanna Fleming (7:52)

The rescue is nice anti inflammatory.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (7:55)

So. Love that we're playing the elevator music. It's on sale at Skin social. We have 15 off over orders. Over 15.

Joanna Fleming (8:04)

Okay.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (8:05)

Jo, what is your swab?

Joanna Fleming (8:07)

Mine is actually some underwear. So I was sent some PR recently of these undies that it was for an event and then they were like, I didn't go to the event, but they sent them to my house anyway. And I got them, tried them, loved them, purchased another three pairs. Yeah. And that is a good PR send out. That is a successful PR exercise when you get me on board as a customer.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (8:30)

Can I say this is like just not to interrupt because I want to hear about these, Nick. Because you know how much I love. But I'm so sick of people being like, influencers don't even buy anything. I'm like, yeah, it is a great conversion tool when used.

Joanna Fleming (8:44)

Well, yeah, 100%. Because I'm an actual customer of this brand, so they sent me their Active G. Now you know how I feel about G strings. Yeah. Not a fan. These are probably the most comfortable G strings I've ever worn. They've got this, like, padding through the gusset, and it's really thin and breathable at the word. I know. I'm sorry to use that term, but it's the technical term. But it's a really, like, thin padding so that you don't get a camel toe in your activewear.

Annika Doshi Smith (9:12)

Oh, we love it.

Joanna Fleming (9:13)

But it also feels, like, slightly absorbent if you get kind of sweaty. Yeah. So it just feels really. Yeah, it feels really comfortable to wear. Does not feel like it's riding up my ass. And they're seamless, so really, really comfortable. Can't see them in anything. I bought the extra pairs because I want to wear them all throughout my wedding weekend because I've obviously got a lot of white outfits I'm going to be wearing, and I just feel like I'm going to be comfortable in them because I'm, like, supported a thousand percent.

Annika Doshi Smith (9:40)

You are going to be resonating right now with such a wider community because this speaks to pregnant people.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (9:44)

You've got no idea.

Joanna Fleming (9:46)

Get into the absorbent gusset doll.

Annika Doshi Smith (9:48)

Yeah. A thousand percent. Yeah.

Joanna Fleming (9:51)

So they're called Posy, and the name of the actual G is the Active G. They do have a different style, but the one that I have with the little padding through it is the Active one.

Annika Doshi Smith (10:01)

Love her.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (10:02)

There's so much I want to buy during these Black Friday sales, but that just got added to the list.

Joanna Fleming (10:06)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (10:06)

Hopefully they're going on sale.

Joanna Fleming (10:07)

Hopefully.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (10:07)

Because if they're not, I'm not shopping at all.

Joanna Fleming (10:09)

They're not cheap. They're not cheap. I think they're like $38 a pair. Like, they are not cheap. But for me, because I tried them and I was like, these are genuinely, incredibly comfortable.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (10:17)

Okay.

Joanna Fleming (10:18)

I was like, I'm just gonna buy them.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (10:19)

Yeah.

Joanna Fleming (10:19)

You do get a discount if you buy a few at a time, because I did when I bought three pairs.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (10:24)

All right, well, that's just incentive to get seven for every day of the week.

Joanna Fleming (10:26)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (10:28)

Why be in discomfort at all? Next, we're talking about Dua Lipa and Augustinus Barter's new collab. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. When it comes to our drink of choice, most of us are creatures of habit. We end our nights with a red wine on the couch. We love a cocktail when we're out for dinner and we can't turn down a spritz on a Sunday afternoon. But sometimes you just need a break from your go tos. Maybe it's the season, or maybe I'm just learning that there's so many more delicious options out there if you're in the mood to mix it up too. Dan Murphy's is where it's at. They stay ahead of the curve and know exactly what's new and what's trending when it comes to drinks. For example. Apparently Citrus is having a moment this summer with some of the usual suspects getting a fresh upgrade like the iconic hard rated that's now available in a zero sugar zesty lemon pineapple. This would go down an absolute treat for a barbecue picnic in the park or a weekend catch up with friends. Whether you want to be ahead of what's new and trending this summer or you're just ready to find a new favorite for your quiet weekend in Dan Murphy's can guide you on what to grab, ask the team in store or download the app. You can check out what's new, what's on their radar and what everyone's drinking. Get inspired and remember to choose to drink wise. A huge thank you to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish Possible.

Joanna Fleming (11:54)

So you might have seen on social media last week that Dua Lipa has become the latest celebrity in a very long line of celebrities to launch a skincare line. The range is called Dua, powered by Augustina Spader Science or Bada, depending on what your accent is or your who's.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (12:09)

Trained you Bada in my training camp.

Joanna Fleming (12:12)

If you've not heard of it before. Augustinus Bada is a luxury skincare brand that is known for being very, very expensive. The duo Range consists of three products that contain TFC5, described by Elle as the little sister ingredient to Augustine Espada's patented TFC8 technology. Although it's a collab, it does have its own website and a bit more of an accessible price point than the brand's core range. So it's priced between 70 and to 138 Australian dollars and I'm not going to act like that is accessible to everybody. I just mean it's more accessible than the the typical range. The reception to this range has been mixed though. Branding expert Camille Moore shared a post to Instagram declaring that this is how you kill a premium beauty brand. In one launch, she said Augustine Espada built their brand on one story, Dr. Barda's revolutionary regenerative medicine technology justifies paying $285 for the rich cream, the brand's most popular product. When you launch a cheaper version with the same brand name, you destroy the story that justified premium pricing. What did you guys think of this collab? For starters, with Dua Lipa? Like, does this feel like a good alignment for you?

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (13:24)

Oh, I feel so conflicted about this because I'm in two camps, right? So I've worked in beauty for a really long time. I totally know exactly what they were trying to do by this. Do I think they nailed it? In short, no. I think who they picked phenomenal. If Dua Lipa told me to go and buy a new brand of tampon, I would go and buy it. Like, I think she is just the ultimate cool girl. She just is.

Joanna Fleming (13:49)

And so hot.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (13:49)

So hot. Anyway, you know, she's spoken about her skincare regime before. She's done Vogue videos. Augustine as Bada beta, however we want to go with it, has been featured in those. So there's a brand alignment. Do I think this landed? Not quite. I don't know why it kind of looks like Augustine Espada's colours reversed. I get what they're trying to do by keeping the synergy. For me. I understand exactly why they did this. Their price point is high. We are in recession, style, climate, in some instances in recession. It is adapt or die at the moment for brands. And I'm not gonna sit on here and neg every luxury skincare player. But what I would say is luxury skincare is really struggling right now. And I have no doubt that they created this diffusion line because they went, we need to diversify the price point of our product and we need to recruit the next generation. And that's hard to do with a $400 rich cream.

Annika Doshi Smith (14:44)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (14:44)

Which by the way, is a fucking excellent product.

Joanna Fleming (14:48)

I agree.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (14:48)

Like, the range is amazing. I know I've swapped in expensive skincare. I'm now talking about even more expensive skincare. But the Augustinus Bada patented technology is incredible. Augustinus Bada is incredible as a scientist. So, yeah, that's my really long winded way of saying, no, I don't think it landed, but I understand why they did it.

Annika Doshi Smith (15:08)

I agree. And I think as well, like Dua, like, she just has this superstar power. Like, we are drawn to everything she does. And I think aligning yourself with an icon of the moment, you're just gonna tap into that customer base and like, you know, maybe on board a whole new customer base that you might not already have because they don't have the dispos income. They can't afford to buy into everything Mads has just said. I get that. It is confusing though, like why would people invest in the mainline brand?

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (15:36)

Great segue, because Jo will have all of the intel on this School us. Joe. Joe Tech is different.

Joanna Fleming (15:41)

I was going to say there's a difference between the TCF8 that's in the standard range and TCF5 which is in the duo range.

Annika Doshi Smith (15:50)

Right.

Joanna Fleming (15:51)

So what I gather from what I've read about is not, I wouldn't say diluted, but it has a bit of a different focus. So that makes me think that the ingredients aren't as concentrated based on what I understand. So the TCF 8 is more intensely corrective and reparative and the TCF 5 is more about maintenance. Gotcha. So there is a bit of a difference in the ingredients. I actually had a look at the ingredients of all three products because there is currently only a cleanser, a serum and a moisturiser as part of the range. And, and I particularly liked the lineup of ingredients in the serum. It's got peptides, it's got antioxidants, it's got essential fatty acids, got lots of soothing anti inflammatory ingredients. So it looks like a nice formula. I don't love that they've said it fades post acne marks and dark spots. Because if that's your focus, I don't feel like this serum will give you the impact on those particular concerns for the price point. Like I'd rather spend that money on a serum that contains things like arbutin or tranexamic acid that are really pigment driven.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (16:50)

Slow down those two words so we can write those down. Just really, please spell that one out for me if you can.

Joanna Fleming (16:55)

I also noticed that they were clever to write on their marine bioretinol, which annoys the shit out of me because there is no retinol in this product. There is a botanical extract in this or a marine extract in this product called Chlorella vulgaris extract. And it's not a bad ingredient. Really nice for antioxidant protection. It may offer some barrier support. It is not going to give you the same results as an actual retinoid. So I think they may kind of set themselves up for a little bit of disappointment there.

Annika Doshi Smith (17:23)

Yeah.

Joanna Fleming (17:23)

Because this serum is a hydrating and barrier supportive serum. It is not going to give you the rejuvenation results of a retinol product.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (17:33)

Jo, I'm really glad you touched on the TCF 8 and the TCF 5. Because what's really clear to me in the languaging is that sort of corrective and reparative is very mature in claim. I think that would resonate with a mature skin type. And then I think maintenance probably feels like what that late 20s, early 30s where it's like, my skin's good and I just kind of want to keep it that way. There's not really an issue, but I know I should be looking after it, so maybe it's time to just invest a little bit more.

Joanna Fleming (18:02)

Yeah, I would have to agree with that. But it's not the first time that they have done a diffusion line because we see Augustine Espada's technology in Victoria Beckham beauty products.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (18:13)

We do. And so it is in a serum that is in the Victoria Beckham line. And it is also in the very hotly debated $180 face drops, which I'm still dying to try.

Joanna Fleming (18:25)

Should I buy them? I'm tempted. I haven't bought the fragrance.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (18:28)

I mean, same. Yeah. Bought the eyeliner, bought the fragrance. I'm like, Victoria Beckham, another one who could sell me tampons. Yeah. But I think it does go to show where diffusion lines can work and can't. Because I would argue that the reason the Victoria Beckham diffusion line worked for Augustinus Barter was because it is a different category, but it's kind of like skin infused ingredients within makeup. And, you know, that customer, I would imagine, is very similar who can afford to buy Victoria Beckham $180 face drops can probably afford to buy a $400 face cream. I think where the Dua Lipa one comes a little unstuck for me is that we've kind of got this stark contrast of we've had this doctor led, clinical high performance approach where he is so world renowned and so acclaimed, you know, as a skin nerd. Not to the degree of you, so maybe a baby skin nerd. I'm like, I'm. I'm really impressed by him and I have read a lot of his work, and I really, deeply love the Augustine Esbada range. You know, there's some things I wouldn't be able to afford to play with, some things I would save to. But where the duo thing comes a little unstuck is she is, at the end of the day, still a pop star to me.

Annika Doshi Smith (19:35)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (19:36)

And so even though you're like the. She's the it girl, she's the cool girl. And I don't. She could sell me tampons. She's someone who I would buy glitter eyeshadows from and I would buy mascara and I'd maybe buy like a really cool T shirt line. She did.

Joanna Fleming (19:47)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (19:47)

I don't know. She's my skin girly.

Joanna Fleming (19:49)

See, I would look at her and go, yes, she's hot, she's amazing. Love her. Don't associate her with skin. She loves a siggy, she loves a suntan. That is not a skincare girly. Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (19:59)

And where Hailey Bieber, if we look at road, did a really good job. Is that during COVID You know, some of our listeners may remember she was doing lives with Dr. Barbara Sturm. She was doing facials on herself, she was doing facials on Justin Bieber. She was breaking down ingredients, she was talking to dermatologists. She very much positioned herself as someone who was very passionate and interested in skin care. And I think that is the example of where a celebrity line works because she grounded herself in learning about skin care and clean girl esthetic and keeping it super simple, which I think are all of the things if you put road down on paper, they would stand for. It's interesting though, we were chatting about it off Mike, how fashion diffusion lines can work so well. And a lot of luxury fashion brands will do diffusion lines. You've got the likes of Max Mara who have a diffusion line. You have Valentino, who have a diffusion line. More locally at home, we've got Camilla and Mark who do CNM by Camilla and Mark. Why do you both feel that it doesn't work for skincare but it works for fashion?

Annika Doshi Smith (21:05)

I think in fashion as well. It's like that same DNA, like if we look at Camila and Mark and cnm, you're looking at the quality, the craft, the price point. The price point is always going to be, for me, one of the biggest drivers because there was a hot moment like when those CNMTs were everywhere and people wanted to buy into the brand that sometimes they couldn't necessarily afford. But this was an easy way to literally stamp your mark and be like, I belong to that community.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (21:29)

Yeah.

Annika Doshi Smith (21:29)

And I think it always translates in fashion because tees are always going to be popular. You can easily buy into those entry level price points. But just going back to what you were saying before is such a beauty novice who didn't know the difference between the different formulas. When I look at the price point alone and I'm like, oh, dew is using it. Okay, I'll buy it. Because we all know, like, I'll buy anything. But it's interesting once, like we dive into it more and I hear both of your perspectives. I'm like, that is so, so true. The ploy of marketing here, wow. It got me. But then does it make sense? Did this land? Maybe it didn't. Now I'm questioning my thoughts.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (22:06)

I mean, I'm an informed consumer. I've worked in beauty. I, I know skincare. Not to the degree of Jo, but I know it well enough. I still went on the site and looked at the range. I still like you thought the serum sounds pretty good.

Joanna Fleming (22:18)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (22:18)

I'm informed enough to not spend that kind of money on a cleanser.

Annika Doshi Smith (22:21)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (22:21)

But for a serum, I was like, I quite like the ingredients.

Joanna Fleming (22:24)

I would use it.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (22:25)

I trust Augustine Espada as a manufacturer of skincare. I think they produce really beautiful products. I don't think that they could put out. Whether they've nailed the marketing is one thing, but I don't think they could put out a formula that wasn't great.

Joanna Fleming (22:39)

Yeah, yeah. They couldn't afford to.

Annika Doshi Smith (22:41)

No.

Joanna Fleming (22:41)

Yeah. It would run. I think everyone will say the products are beautiful. Yeah, the cleanser is really nice. The serum's gorgeous. That the moisturizer, stunning. But yeah, at the end of the day, is it the same, Is it the same thing as the original line? No, it's technically not. But are you still going to see the benefits of really nice skincare? Yeah, probably.

Annika Doshi Smith (23:01)

Yeah.

Joanna Fleming (23:01)

Next we're going to talk about whether Australia has an ambition problem. But that will be after a word from today's sponsor.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (23:08)

Picture it. You're running late for a friend's birthday, but you need to stop and grab a bottle of wine. Next minute, you've wasted 20 minutes perusing the aisles and attempting to choose something she'll like. Our friends at Dan Murphy's are here to help by guiding us on what's new, what's trending and what everyone else is loving when it comes to drinks. Download the Dan Murphy's app to stay inspired or ask in store and remember to choose to drink wise. Thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode as stylish possible. Okay, this next headline. I feel like I could spend an entire episode on this. As soon as I saw this article, it went straight into our slack with a very strong comment from me. We must come cover this next week, but it's a story that you've likely heard a tale as old as time. A talented Australian founder, a creative or an entrepreneur relocates to a big city like London or New York in order to. I put in my Little quotation marks make it so. Our best talent relocating overseas has become so commonplace that we've actually started coining it Brain Drain. Like, what a sad, sad name.

Annika Doshi Smith (24:18)

Isn't it depressing?

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (24:19)

Yeah, it's terribly depressing. Makes me scared for our future. But an article published last week on Rolodex Media's substack titled Make Australia Ambitious Again did a deep dive on the way. Australian ambition is outgrowing Australia itself. I cannot recommend that you go and read this enough. I've read this six times. That's how much I just resonated with so much of it. But it really honed in on the fact that, you know, we're forcing some of our best talent to relocate to these global cities in order to make it, so to speak. Now, up top, I do want to flag that. We obviously know relocating by choice is a major place of privilege. It's an expensive process, it's a timely process, and it is by no means accessible to anyone and everyone.

Annika Doshi Smith (25:07)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (25:08)

Plus there are a copious amount of people worldwide displaced and relocating through no choice of their own. So I think we just want to acknowledge the privilege of the conversation we're having and we're about to have. But back to the article. The writer, Mafaro Mudawembwa from Sydney, breaks down the reasons why Australia isn't able to retain some of its best talent. She writes that retaining talent isn't about begging people to stay, it's about making staying make sense. That requires rethinking the systems we've long accepted as fixed, from how we fund innovation to how we treat culture, to how we talk about success. Now, if you haven't gathered by the fact I've read this six times, this clearly resonated with me, but it's not about me right now. Jo, did this resonate with you?

Joanna Fleming (25:55)

I really loved this article for the fact that it presented the facts, but then also provided a solution to the problem. I loved that it wasn't just like, here's all the problems. Yeah, I'll leave that with you. It was here is what we're proposing is a solution to this problem. However, I understand the entire, you know, premise of the article, but I would also argue that for a lot of founders to be able to scale their businesses, it is a requirement to move overseas into the markets that you want to grow into, because you otherwise wouldn't have access to all the contacts that you may need to the retailers that you might need to be meeting with. And being based in Australia, we are so Far from everyone. You can't just pop into London for a 24 hour period to have a meeting with somebody. It's a huge commitment to be traveling back and forth overseas. And I think if you are trying to scale your company, yes, you could do that virtually. But are you going to have the best time doing it or are you going to have to be paying people on the ground to be helping you scale your business somewhere else? So I think there's also an element of that that maybe wasn't mentioned within the article, is very much tall, poppy focused, which is certainly a problem. I know that we've spoken about that about 75 different times on this podcast.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (27:04)

You know, that's personal passion point of mine. Can I ask, do you think that's a logistical challenge or do you think that that's an energy and an attitude issue? Because let's take Tower 28, la based brand, doing incredibly well here in Australia. I worked with them, so I can say that I'm not working with them now. So no one come for me there. Like they're based in la, resonating deeply in Australia, doing awesome things.

Joanna Fleming (27:28)

Why I would argue they're successful in Australia though, because they have a brand partner like Mecca. So you got me there.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (27:34)

You got me there. Joe Fleming.

Joanna Fleming (27:35)

So for example, someone like Michelle Hu from Etoile Collective, you know, she, I think she's still a one woman show over there and she uses agencies and you know, other partners like that to help grow her business. But she's on the ground, you know, doing the hard yards, trying to scale her business over there.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (27:50)

Yeah.

Joanna Fleming (27:50)

And I think that's a necessity. If you want to grow in the us, You've got to be amongst it. Like it's just, I don't think that's about people not being happy for her success here. I don't think that's the reason that she would have relocated. I can't speak for her obviously, because I haven't asked her.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (28:03)

Yeah.

Joanna Fleming (28:03)

But I think that in some cases it's just one of those things you have to do as a brand founder if you want to grow your business to a certain level.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (28:09)

Yeah, agree.

Annika Doshi Smith (28:10)

I think as well, like this is kind of why I have a business. It's because so many brands that we work with, especially in the fashion industry, don't have the infrastructure, don't have the operations, don't have even sometimes the cash flow, the investment to actually hire someone who is experienced in this field to take their brand to that next level. And I think it's really sad because there is so much incredible talent in Australia. Like, let's think of brands like Christopher Esber Zimmerman, who now are on a global stage because they have access and they've actually been able to catapult their brands because of the international placements. It's so hard because obviously there's this kind of stigma now in our industry that to make it, you have to be overseas, you've got to be an international brand. And so many brands just don't have the opportunities that, you know, others do that have investors. A lot of people don't have access to all of those things. Which is why, going back to your point, Jo, our business has been, I don't want to say we're niche, but because there are other agencies in the market. But we do partner with emerging talent and we make sure that we can find those placements to help leverage their brands, amplify their brand message and make sure that they do have access to those buyers overseas. And it's actually really interesting because sometimes I just feel like it's far less celebrated to have a really robust, like, distribution strategy or partnerships in Australia alone. Like, we look at brands like Henny, which I feel almost in a mix, immense sense of pride, like they are killing it. They're building their brand in a sustainable way, a way that makes sense to their business model. And look how, like, great they're doing. We've seen Henny on so many girls. It was at the point where it's like, become the uniform, the DNA of not just Melbourne girls. It's Australian woman and it's like, look at them kill it. Absolutely. And doing it just D to C. They don't have wholesale.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (29:56)

Do you not think, though, that they'll expand into the UK100.

Annika Doshi Smith (30:00)

But I'm like, will that be when people are like, oh, they've made it. I'm like, they're making it.

Joanna Fleming (30:04)

Now, what you said about how you support brands going into other markets, it's funny because you spend so much time overseas selling to these parts. So that's kind of like. To my point, exactly. If you want to be growing your business, someone's got to be there on the ground doing that.

Annika Doshi Smith (30:18)

Yeah.

Joanna Fleming (30:19)

And I don't think that has anything to do with Tall Poppy syndrome, but I do think that's a completely separate issue and that is a reason that a lot of people move overseas and they want to be surrounded by other people who are as ambitious as them and as successful as them and, you know, wanting to take risks and things like that. That maybe the people around them here in Australia aren't doing.

Annika Doshi Smith (30:37)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (30:38)

You know how I feel about the tall poppy thing. And I really felt it after I was in New York. I did meet up with Michelle while I was in the US and I met up with Maddie Stefanis, who has 35 millimeter CO and met up with Michelle when she was recently back in Melbourne as well. And it's funny to me because I think ambition in Australia is culturally coded as arrogance. I think to say that you're ambitious and that you believe in yourself and you want to be the best or you want to do the best or the most is perceived to be really arrogant.

Joanna Fleming (31:05)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (31:06)

And in the US that is not arrogance. And I'm not going to sit here and say the US is perfect by no means. But I think when you have an idea and you have ambition and you're willing to work hard, people in major cities like London and New York lean in and they want to hear more. And in Australia, you have that same conversation and you'll probably get a left head tilt of and have you thought about this? And what about that? And how are you going to fund it? And there's. It's a lot of how, how, how, which is great with trusted allies when you're building something to go, yes, challenge me and ask me these questions. Maddie said a really interesting thing to me when we were in New York. We were at breakfast with another girlfriend of mine, Becky, and she just said, I feel like I am better here because I am around the best. And it makes me want to do more and try more. And I'm not embarrassed to just give everything a go and hustle. And I wonder if maybe that's the tall poppy thing. If we feel like some of the best of the best are leaving, who's alongside you? And that doesn't mean that people are below you or you think you're higher than someone. It's just is their ambition and their, you know, pursuits marrying up. That's okay if it's not. Like, I had one friend who just said to me, I just want to be at home as a mum. I don't want a girl boss. I don't want to go and climb the corporate ladder anymore. I'm just really happy. I don't think anything less of her. I don't think that she lacks ambition or drive or whatever. She's just picked what she wants to do. But I think when you're talking about building something, things that need investment, that need cash flow, it's really hard to raise capital in Australia. Any capital conversation I have had with brands I have worked with or for my own brand, not a single single capital conversation has been with an Australian. Not one.

Annika Doshi Smith (32:59)

Isn't it wild? I feel like as well, like we're just so much more risk adverse in these smaller cities. And it's crazy because we see it even like every week we get sell through reports from all of our retail partners globally. And even though, yep, everyone is kind of going through that cost of living crisis right now. Yes, we hear about it constantly but internationally we're still seeing it, but buyers are still willing to test and learn here there's a slow sell, sales might dip for a week or two or maybe a month and it's like all hell breaks loose. And people aren't really sometimes committed to, I guess seeing opportunities through believing that we've sold you this product for a reason. It will translate. How are we gonna do that together and partner together? The partnership opportunities overseas, it's like you have a bad sell. We work on it together here. People go, let's just can it. It's so interesting to me and I think there's so many parallels across so many industries, especially in response to this article, 1000%.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (33:58)

And I'm really glad you spoke about working together and helping each other. Cause I think that was one thing that really stuck out to me in the article was Mufaro was talking about she'd been at a cafe four times in the one week with her business partner and that they had not struck up a single conversation that was helpful to their business. And what she contrasted it to was that everyone she knows that's in the US in particular is saying that they're grabbing a coffee or they're like cycling next to someone at SoulCycle who suddenly knows someone who's in venture capital in the field that they need or who knows someone who raised or who knows someone who knows the retailer. You can be ranged in like there's a lot of. Oh, let me connect you. Yeah. And I remember I made a TikTok when I got back from the U.S. that was like the one thing I loved about the energy there was lifting anyone up to become taller didn't make you shorter.

Joanna Fleming (34:46)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (34:47)

And I wonder if that's what she was trying to illustrate in this article.

Annika Doshi Smith (34:49)

Definitely. And I think that connectedness, we are so big. I think even just off mic, the three of us, when we talk about industry chat or anything to help each other out, we are so open. But I will admit, and maybe My career In the last 10 years, 10 years ago, there wasn't that openness, there wasn't that connectedness. It was kind of like gatekeeping all of your ip, because your IP is what made you relevant or made you kind of, like, really important and valued in your industry. But now there's enough business for everyone. We should be uplifting our communities. We should be uplifting Australians in general. And it's so interesting that I actually remember listening to your TikTok and being like, fuck, yeah, Mads. Like, that is literally the energy in New York City. You can go out for a drink with anybody. They are so direct, they're so upfront and they will support people because the communities, the populations, everything's big enough. Everyone's got room to succeed.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (35:42)

I think what's really evident and what I loved about this article, and I think what we're all kind of agreeing on, is that we need to have a bit of a roadmap to retaining this talent because we do have it here. How do we not make, you know, Australia feels so far removed from it that it feels like you have to get out of here in order to make it. How do we create an ecosystem where success and ambition is celebrated rather than, you know, something that breathes to make us feel uncomfortable?

Joanna Fleming (36:08)

Yeah, agree with that. Definitely.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (36:10)

But what's our next headline from the bride herself?

Joanna Fleming (36:13)

Next, we are talking about the rise of the wedding camcorder. A recent article in the New York Times explored the rise in popularity of camcorders at Gen Z weddings. I'm not a Gen Z.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (36:25)

Also, if you're a Gen Z getting married, I'm like, oh, go off, queen.

Joanna Fleming (36:28)

According to the article, young couples are opting for camcorder footage over more polished wedding videos because they're drawn to the shaky, grainy footage for its raw, nostalgic charm. Wedding videographers traditionally aim for high definition shots of a couple's ceremony, often using drones for sweeping shots and capturing the day in almost cinematic perfection. But as the article lays out, younger couples are opting for a more lo fi approach. Have you guys been seeing camcorders? I know that you've been to a few weddings, Annika, recently, have you been seeing camcorders there?

Annika Doshi Smith (36:57)

I absolutely have. And so the wedding that I was at in Italy, shout out to Jamie and Matt because it was honestly, like, impeccable. But they had the drone, they had, like, the videographers. They had everything going on. And some of the funnest content we've seen so far is from the camcorders. They had them on the tables and everyone was passing them around. And the whole idea was just to kind of get more cand authentic kind of shots throughout the day and the night. And it's some a content, you guys. It kind of takes me back. Like I get such a sense of nostalgia as well.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (37:27)

I did have a chuckle at this article that it was like Gen Z nostalgia. I was like, excuse me, you guys grew up with like HDMI cords and DVDs. Like you did not have camcorder footage. You had like early phones and great high definition video. Like the camcorder is very reminiscent of late 80s, early 90s. Like I would say the millennials grew up with the Camcorder 100. I have been to weddings where these have been used recently. I obviously also have the camcorder that we've spoken about that I chucked in my bag to New York. Shout out to Daddy Jeff on Amazon with your 130 bargain. Think it's on sale with Black Friday at the moment. Really? 94 swaps today for me. But I do laugh at this because don't get me wrong, I love the camcorder. And actually one of Ray's friends, Sophie had it at her hands, which is why I bought it because it's. I just loved it so much and thought, oh my God, what a fun way to like get content in a different format. Because I'm obviously wedded to my Fujifilm. It's like stapled in my hand. But I do wonder if the camcorder at weddings is going to be the 20, 20 something equivalent of what like the flash mob dances were to the 2000s, you know, like the officers, like forever. I'm like, is this going to be the hallmark of like, yup, you got married in 20, 24, 25.

Joanna Fleming (38:43)

It has to be something, right? There is a mark always that people got married and you can pinpoint and be like, oh, Yep, you were 2014.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (38:52)

Yeah, totally. I mean it's, you know, tambourines could be in there. What else could we put in there? I mean in the 80s it was like those big tiered cakes. I feel like the vintage cakes was a couple of years ago. Maybe they're still having a thing. Like there's a few hallmarks. We could go, yeah, I do fear this could be that. But you are getting married in two weeks, so million dollar question, will you have camcorder footage at your wedding?

Joanna Fleming (39:13)

I hadn't thought about it yet and then I had a meeting with our content creator.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (39:18)

Yeah.

Joanna Fleming (39:18)

So there's. There's a lot of content going on in this wedding, guys. I've really invested heavily in the content. We've got two photographers. We've got a videographer. We've got a content creator. So the content creator and I. And I've got you too. So I've got the content creator. I had a meeting with her the other day, and she, before we hung up the call, she's like, how do you feel about camcorder? And I was like, huh, I hadn't really thought of that. Yes, I've seen them going around, but I hadn't thought to do it. And she's like, well, I'm gonna bring my camcorder and I'm gonna get some footage by May content. If you need someone for your own wedding, by the way. So she's gonna film some camcorder content. However, I wouldn't personally rely on it as my only piece of content. Yeah, it's like an additional fun thing that I may use, I may not, but it's nice to have.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (39:58)

Great.

Joanna Fleming (39:58)

Because I can have it.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (40:00)

Totally.

Joanna Fleming (40:00)

But I wouldn't rely on that. Instead of a videographer in my personal position, I would want the cinematic footage as well.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (40:08)

I agree. I did have someone comment on the TikTok I uploaded being like, this is your sign to buy the cheap camcorder on Amazon. And one girl was like, oh, my God, what camcorder is this? Like, I want it for my wedding. And I was like, girl, scatter them around on the tables at the wedding. Or like, have them in a little basket. And at like 9:30, just let like, five people loose with them and let them pass it around.

Joanna Fleming (40:26)

Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (40:26)

Imagine how funny that footage would be. Because I do think now people spend so much on their weddings. Cho's like, I know, but it's like, you invest so much in a wedding, you kind of do want as much content from it as possible. You know, if they're going to have kids, they want to be able to show their kids or friends and family who live overseas, they might want to show them. I understand wanting ample content from every angle, but I'm with you, Joe. I don't know. I would sub out, like, great high def footage for a camcorder because as.

Joanna Fleming (40:54)

You said, it could be one of those things where you look back in a few years and you're like, oh, don't know about that.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (40:59)

Yeah, but then equally, like, videographers are really expensive. And if you could pay someone to come with a camcorder, 130 bucks, like, get auntie Nancy on it. I don't have an auntie called Nancy, but that just felt right.

Annika Doshi Smith (41:09)

I'm literally like, I could literally pull out my one from the shed at my parents house and like get the content for you. It's just like that grainy, different look. Even if you wanted to invest in a camcorder, but you don't have the budget, you could look at secondhand options and there's so many on the market now.

Joanna Fleming (41:23)

Like, I think that's one at Kmart.

Annika Doshi Smith (41:25)

Definitely you could find some cheap options if you just wanted to get that lo fi kind of content.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (41:30)

It's a vibe also, just for like literally the hundred DMS I get every single week. Despite the fact we've done multiple stories on this, the camcorder that I recommended is highlighted on the stylish Instagram page. Please stop getting angry at me.

Joanna Fleming (41:45)

And it will be in the episode notes.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (41:47)

Leave the woman alone in the show notes. It's on sale now. Get a bargain or get on ebay. I mean, the vintage ones are way better than the Amazon one, but, you know, again, I'm not gonna neg it. It was a bargain.

Joanna Fleming (41:58)

Yeah, love that.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (42:00)

All right, well, we look forward to seeing the camcorder footage from you, Jo. Be it up. Cause we will be there.

Annika Doshi Smith (42:06)

Cannot lie.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (42:07)

I'm so excited to chat in next week's EP because we are gonna get the full wedding rundown from Joe. Don't worry, we have not been ignoring it. But that is all for this week's episode of Stylish. Thanks, guys, for being back. I'm so happy to have the band back together.

Annika Doshi Smith (42:20)

I know. I missed you guys.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (42:21)

We missed you too.

Annika Doshi Smith (42:22)

Did. Yeah.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (42:23)

Yeah, we did. Ray came in one week and we were like, you're kind of low key dressed like Annika.

Joanna Fleming (42:28)

Oh, my God.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (42:28)

She looked like me.

Joanna Fleming (42:29)

Yes.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (42:29)

Yeah.

Joanna Fleming (42:29)

How freaky was that?

Annika Doshi Smith (42:30)

I was like, huh, there's my doppelganger.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (42:32)

Yeah, the chair was, like, wearing off on her. And thanks so much to you, our lovely listeners, for joining us as well. Remember, you can drop us an email anytime at style-ishameless media.com or you can slide into our DMS over at Stylish Pod. And of course, we can't forget to thank the lovely, shameless media team head of podcast, Lucy Hunt, Senior podcast producer, Kate Emmerburg. We'll be right back with you next Wednesday to talk wedding.

Joanna Fleming (42:56)

Thanks, nerds.

Annika Doshi Smith (42:58)

Can't wait. Foreign.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (43:09)

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.

Joanna Fleming (43:12)

Always was, always will be aboriginal land.