How copycat culture took over fashion and beauty

Summary

Podcast Summary: Style-ish – “How copycat culture took over fashion and beauty”

Date: November 27, 2025
Hosts: Madison Sullivan Thorpe & Rhiannon Joyce
Publisher: Shameless Media

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Style-ish, Madison and Rhiannon dive deep into the phenomenon of "dupe culture"—the mainstreaming of imitation products in fashion and beauty, and the way brands are leveraging this trend as a marketing strategy. Anchored around the wild success and controversial tactics of MCO Beauty, the episode contrasts industry and consumer perspectives, explores the increasingly blurred lines between inspiration and imitation, and raises critical questions about the sustainability and ethics of copycat culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Black Friday & Brand Saturation

• Black Friday Sales Fatigue:
  • Rhiannon notes the relentless deluge of Black Friday promotions and the disappointing discounts masquerading as major deals (04:18–05:44).
    • “I do not want to see a discount that resembles a sign up discount. You can go and get fucked.” – Madison [04:41]
  • Strategic, thoughtful shopping and the value of curated shopping edits by creators like Bri Turton and Zara Wong are highlighted as antidotes to the overwhelm.
• Education Behind the Curtain:
  • Shoutouts to JWRIGHTofficial and others who break down the business side of these massive retail pushes, offering “snackable edutainment content” for consumers who want to be savvy (07:08–08:11).

2. Dupes as a Marketing Strategy: The MCO Beauty Case Study

• Defining Dupes vs. Counterfeits:
  • Dupes provide the look and function of luxury items without infringing on protected IP (e.g., not fake Chanel bags) (10:31).
  • MCO Beauty: half of its product range is self-identified as “dupes,” making copycatting a core part of its branding and meteoric rise—it's now the #1 beauty brand in major Australian supermarkets (14:40–15:02).
    • “MCO Beauty has made duping as part of their marketing strategy. I don’t think there is any other brand in the world...so much so that they’ve actually identified that 50% of their product range are considered dupes and 50% are considered original products.” – Rhiannon [12:39]
  • Their NYC pop-up directly emulated a Sephora experience, using slogans like “luxury for everyone.”
• Consumer Response & Industry Disruption:
  • While industry insiders may grieve the loss of creative labor, most consumers don't care, especially in a cost-of-living crisis.
    • “I don’t think they care, Mads, because the reality of it is they are getting a product that in some cases is like for like.” – Rhiannon [19:25]
  • The accessibility of dupes in supermarkets and drugstores (vs. exclusive luxury retailers) is a huge driver.

3. The Ethics and Impact of Dupe Culture

• From Industry Insiders:
  • Madison’s unique perspective as a former Mecca senior marketing manager centers empathy for brand founders and creators, lamenting that dupe culture “flattens industry” and stifles creativity (16:40–19:10).
    • “Where I worry about dupe culture is that it flattens industry. It takes away time, effort, energy, and most of all creativity...” – Madison [18:52]
• From the Average Consumer:
  • Price and accessibility trump concerns over imitation (20:07–20:53).
  • The normalization of dupes is “fueled” by social media’s viral culture, with #dupe hitting 6.3 billion views on TikTok (21:29).

4. Fashion vs. Beauty: Why Do We Judge Differently?

• Hypocrisy & Contradiction:
  • Both hosts openly grapple with their own shifting standards—comfortable with Zara making St Laurent knock-offs, but uncomfortable when local brands are copied (24:23–26:41).
    • “I’m guilty of this. I often joke that I’m a total walking contradiction.” – Madison [24:53]
• IP in Creative Direction & Campaigns:
  • Rhiannon argues that “creative direction is IP,” citing Australian brands who have had style guides, photo treatments, and campaigns copied (28:49–29:00).

5. Dupe Debate: Where Do We Draw the Line?

• Case Studies:
  • Ganni’s ballerina flats and Bottega’s Jodie clutch: The panel admits to owning dupes and feeling conflicted about it (29:15–30:53).
  • Emotional responses vary depending on whether the originator or the duper is local, international, small, or a conglomerate.
• Brand Innovation: Reverse Dupe Marketing:
  • Lululemon’s “dupe swap” pop-up encouraged consumers to exchange knockoffs for originals, showing how some brands are cleverly turning the trend to their advantage (31:56–33:29).
  • Charlotte Tilbury’s campaign labeling themselves “undupable” is discussed as a cheeky response, though execution is critiqued (33:07–34:30).

6. Is Dupe-Driven Marketing Sustainable?

• Short-Term Gains vs. Long-Term Risks:
  • Madison and Rhiannon agree: a business model based on copycatting has momentum now but is unlikely to have longevity. When outrage inevitably replaces excitement, the strategy may falter (34:36–35:22).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Black Friday sales and brand fatigue:

“I do not want to see a discount that resembles a sign up discount. You can go and get fucked.”
– Madison (04:41)

On MCO’s unapologetic dupe positioning:

“They are really going hard at using this tactic of dupes as part of their strategy. And to your point, they’ve really brought it to life in an experiential space.”
– Rhiannon (10:22)

On the emotional impact for industry insiders:

“Where I worry about dupe culture is that it flattens industry. It takes away time, effort, energy, and most of all creativity that goes into…creating something.”
– Madison (18:52)

On consumer priorities:

“The reality of it is, dupe culture is rife on social media and social media has contributed—and I would almost say created dupe culture.”
– Rhiannon (21:29)

On personal contradictions:

“I’m guilty of this. Like, I often joke that I’m a total walking contradiction because… But I’m the first to go, oh, my God, how good is this Zara top? It’s a total rip off of the St. Laurent top.”
– Madison (24:53)

On creative IP and brand identity:

“That creative direction is ip…To me, that’s as much IP as the packaging you put your lip liner in.”
– Rhiannon (28:51)

On sustainability of dupe culture as a tactic:

“No, not in the current way it’s coming about…I don’t think there’s longevity in that because I think the pendulum will swing and where excitement comes, outrage will follow and vice versa.”
– Madison (34:39)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Black Friday sales fatigue: 04:18–06:09
• Defining dupes, counterfeits, and the MCO takeover: 08:11–12:39
• MCO’s dupe marketing and disruption: 12:39–16:28
• Emotional and industry impacts of dupes: 16:40–20:07
• Dupe culture’s normalization & social media impact: 21:29–22:13
• Changing creator/consumer sentiment: 23:12–24:23
• Fashion vs. beauty hypocrisy: 24:53–26:41
• Branding, creative IP & campaign copying: 28:49–29:15
• Dupe debate—where do you draw the line: 29:15–30:53
• Lululemon’s reverse-dupe campaign & trademarks: 31:56–33:29
• Sustainability of dupe-driven marketing: 34:36–35:22

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Conclusion

The episode ultimately highlights that dupe culture is a multifaceted, emotionally charged phenomenon: beloved for accessibility and democratization, lamented for its toll on creativity and originality. While brands like MCO ride high on the trend today, both hosts and the data suggest that consumer sentiment, as well as legal and ethical considerations, will continue to evolve. The “copycat culture” conversation is far from over—but for now, it’s reshaping shelves, social feeds, and the strategies of entire industries.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Michael Hill. With 25 off a select range of fine jewelry, Christmas has come early at Michael Hill. Hello and welcome back to another Friday episode of Stylish. I'm Madison Sullivan Thorpe and I'm joined by my lovely co host Rhiannon Joyce. As you may know by now, this is the corner stylish where we focus more on brand campaigns and those. How did they get their career stories? Ray, It's Wednesday for us. We record on a Wednesday for our Friday app. How are you?

[A]

I'm good, I'm good. I actually, I have a bit of hay fever at the moment which is so boring and so Melbourne coated. So I had to take my towel fast before we came in. But I'm feeling a little bit better. I've got a pretty hectic day today, so, yeah, I'm happy, I'm excited. How are you?

[B]

Do you know what? I'm really good. I'm really like energized at the moment. It's funny, like I'm not sleeping very well because hours wise I'm feeling like quite, you know, it's quite demanding. But I love the festive, silly season I've got. My building is doing Christmas drinks on Friday. I'm excited. I love my neighbors. I've got, you know, like friends birthdays. Yours has just been happy birthday yesterday. But you know, like, I feel like it's a good time of the year.

[A]

I don't mind going out midweek normally, especially in. In the silly season is so fun. I just like to lean in. I feel like you just have to cop that the next month is going to be really hard.

[B]

Yeah. But cop feeling too because who doesn't want to go have a tipple of champagne and a giggle? Like, what's not to love?

[A]

I mean, we do that. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Silly season.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

We don't need the month to be December to give ourselves the grace of that. No. Now, Ray, it is your time. Word of the week. It's your turn this week.

[A]

Before I actually share my word of the week, you did task me last fortnight to come up with a word of the week for your.

[B]

I did word of the week because.

[A]

You were speaking more about a culture or a phenomenon that you're seeing particularly amongst your friends and also on social media. So for those of you who haven't listened to the previous fortnightly episode, it was more about trying to find a word that would encompass and combine being a girl's girl. Yeah. A hustler. Those were your words.

[B]

Every day I'm hustling every single.

[A]

I did choice of word, but that's fine. And not a gatekeeper. So those were the three things that I had to really try and focus on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm not gonna lie.

[A]

I Text Mads Literally 15 minutes before this recording. Can I get out of not doing this? And because we are so committed to our content promise and honoring that, we would show up and do this, I have come up with a word with a help from our robot friend.

[B]

We love the robots.

[A]

Our robots. So ChatGPT gave me some suggestions. I have to make a nod to one of them. That was terrible.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

The first one that was terrible was Power Sister. Like, what is that?

[B]

Don't you think Power Sister is so, like, 2012 hashtag girlbosscoded.

[A]

So hashtag girlboss coded the hilarious thing as well. I don't know if your ChatGPT does this, but mine. What gives emoji suggestions?

[B]

Oh, I taught my ChatGPT. I said, no more emojis.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I need to do that. Because next to Power Sister, I had a chili and I said to Chat tpt. I was like, Well, I didn't say this, but I thought, what's with the chili? Like, why is Power Sisters associated with chili anyway?

[B]

Hot, Spicy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hot tamami? Yeah.

[A]

Maybe. Maybe it's like that spicy. Okay. But they did give me one suggestion that I didn't mind. The accompanying emoji was a fire emoji, like a flame, which I do like.

[B]

Do you like all my sound effects today? Yeah.

[A]

Poor listeners. It's called an amplifier.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, in the context of this conversation, mostly being about marketing and brand. That is very marketing heavy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I do think it embodies those three things. An amplifier is someone who is a girl's girl. They're a hustler, and they're not a gatekeeper.

[B]

Yeah. They want to lift other people up. They want to amplify others. Yeah. I'm into it. Okay.

[A]

So go off, robots. Go off. So we're coining it. We're coining this as an amplifier.

[B]

Yeah. I know lots of amplifiers. You're an amplifier.

[A]

Oh, thank you. If anyone out there has some other suggestions that they think they can be the robots and chachi with amplifier, please share them. I'd love to hear. Now, I am going to get into my actual word of the week.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

My word of the week, and I think it's timely and it's topical. Is Black Friday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I am And I'm sure everyone has. And I've seen a few videos made by creators, your friend Miranda included, talking about the saturation of Black Friday sales, but also the audacity for a lot of these brands to be offering pretty dismal discounts that we would see run of the mill discounts happening throughout the usual sales cycle, not just Black Friday.

[B]

I do not want to see a discount that resembles a sign up discount. You can go and get fucked.

[A]

Yeah. So that 10 to 20%, quite aggressive.

[B]

Sorry about that.

[A]

Keep it in.

[B]

Say what I said, say it was my chest.

[A]

So 10 to 20% is usually what I'm seeing at the moment in terms of Black Friday sale where it gets me. And I do have beef with this on top of already existing sale items.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

I'm like, babe, that's on sale for a reason. It's like it's not really. You can't hit me with the double sale.

[B]

No, I don't want you. Four seasons old stock. Although did pick up some bargains at David Jones in the underwear department. So except for you, David Jones, you're let off.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's some good shit on sale, by the way.

[A]

So I am in this vortex of Black Friday sales inundated with messages, inundated with emails. I'm sure we all are. They're coming through left, right and center right. So what I've actually tried to do to be able to shop thoughtfully during Black Friday because there are things that I have wanted to buy that I've ended up purchasing and gifts, particularly going into the holiday season, I find it a very strategic time to buy items that I will put under the Christmas tree for my friends and my family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So in that sense I've always had a very thoughtful lens going into this season. What I've really liked and I want to shout out a few creators who I think have done really, really strong curated edits. I think curated edits are what help and encourage people to shop thoughtfully. Generally they're targeted or tailored to a specific need, a specific type of interest, you know, homewares, fashion or even personality traits. Now we're seeing a lot more creativity in terms of the type of girl that you're buying for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Some shout outs I want to give to Bri Turton. She's always done incredible gifts, particularly focusing on homewares and lifestyle. She is an incredible interior designer. We've worked with her in the past on stylish. She just does the best edits and I always find they feel really thoughtful and Considered Zara Wong. Yeah. In her newsletter screenshot this she also spoke with Elise Tran, who is one of the co founders of in the Roundhouse and she gave some really interesting insights around why Black Friday has become such a big thing, but also the trends of shopping, which I found really interesting. So I've actually taken this opportunity to shop their edits but also use it as an education piece to understand why these sales going so much earlier. Yeah, because it does feel like it's earlier than ever.

[B]

Also like Black Friday will happen on the Friday this episode drops. But I don't know if it's just me. I feel like I've been getting these emails for like three plus weeks, three plus weeks minimum. And the text messages, I'm like, I don't know when I signed up to some of these idioms or if I did it all. I'm like, did, did like my email fall off the back of a truck or something and you add me to it?

[A]

Yeah. So for the girls who also don't work in E comm and probably aren't familiar with the sales cycle throughout the year and Black Friday and why it works, I recommend following J. Wright official on Instagram. He's an E commerce growth expert. He just did an excellent video talking about the strategy behind Brit Saunders brand fate, the label and their Black Friday strategy. I loved this video. He's also got a few others where he does some deep dives and brand business strategy. Definitely worth following if you want to understand more about the trends of Black Friday and why people are going earlier than ever.

[B]

Totally do. You know, I actually had him down as a future swap because I love that he's also talking a lot about businesses when they're releasing their ASX report or when they're being acquired or getting investment. He's kind of breaking it down for everyone. He did a great one on the memo, which I know both Kate and Phoebe also did one on Ages. That's one of my favorite and I love all of it because sometimes I just don't want to spend an hour digesting that information myself. I love a bit of snackable edutainment content.

[A]

I agree, he's really good. All right, let's get into the episode. Mads, tell us what we're talking about today.

[B]

Oh, it feels like this is a little bit of a revisit of an episode we did many moons ago, but it felt like we were constantly having this conversation again and again and again and expanding because it feels like every month there's just more to Add to it, it snowballs. But this week we're going to explore the world of dupes and we are going to use the same brand that we kind of anchored, I guess, the original conversation in, and that is MCO Beauty and I. What I would preface by saying is the first episode it felt like we kind of broke down mco and this episode, it feels like we're going to tackle more dupe culture.

[A]

Dupe culture and also the trend of it being a marketing tactic. I think, you know, our point of difference on Friday is really focusing on the industry and it being used as a marketing tool. I actually went back and listened to that episode because I wasn't on it. Zara McDonald, co founder of Shameless Media, was alongside you and Joe. And I found that a lot of the content actually also centered around the sentiment of dupe culture from a consumer perspective. So the twist from our end is looking at this more so from an industry perspective. So by no means do I think there is cannibalization or repetition in the conversations we're having. Yes, the themes and the brand we're talking about. But overall I would say they're very different conversations.

[B]

Totally. So, Ray, there was a little something that we texted each other. Texted, that's texted.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

That we sent to each other because I was like, oh, I feel like on the Friday we're going to have to cover this. We were texting each other about it and it was that mco, who have in recent years expanded into the US were basically doing a takeover, a press event there and a consumer facing. Yes, I remember where they basically duped what looked like a Sephora store or a Sephora activation with bags that look like Sephora bags, wall bays that look like Sephora wall bays. It was a bold and ballsy choice and probably the first time we'd really seen them dupe activation wise in the US market, which is a very different dupe culture market to Australia.

[A]

I would say really different dupe culture market. Also, they led with the tagline at the event as luxury for everyone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they're really going hard at using this tactic of dupes as part of their strategy. And to your point, they've really brought it to life in an experiential space.

[B]

So according to the fashion law, dupes are inspired by luxury products, but do not include protected elements of the product being copied. On the other hand, counterfeit products are illegal copies that falsely present themselves as the original brand, using fake logos and packaging to deceive buyers. So think a channel Handbag. Yeah, verse mco. So we're not talking back alley misspelt logos. We're talking, you know, products that can look and feel, in some cases act the same way as their more expensive counterpart. We'll delve into Emco and why customers are gravitating towards dupes right now. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. If we could choose what was under our Christmas tree this year, it would be something meaningful, timeless and chic. The triple threat. And if you ask us, few gifts meet this brief like a piece of fine jewelry. Whether you're surprising a girlfriend, treating your mum or sister, celebrating a big achievement this year, or gifting yourself just because jewelry is always welcome. One of our favourite places to source fine jewellery is Michael Hill. They have the most beautiful range for every person on your list, including yourself. And this year, Christmas has come early. With 25% off a select range of fine jewelry, there's no better time to invest in some beautiful gifts than during the Black Friday sale. If you're stuck for ideas, Michael Hill's got you. Their Christmas gift directory gathers the most fashionable and foolproof pieces, from classic gold staples to timeless diamonds to personalized pendants. Start here, then head in store or online to find Christmas gifts on sale for a limited time only. Exclusions tncs apply. Thank you so much to Michael Hill for making this episode of Stylish Possible. So, Rae, we know why people are picking up Emco versus, say, a Charlotte Tilbury original of the product. Why do you think they're picking it up, though, instead of other brands that are priced at the same price point or in some cases even cheaper because.

[A]

They'Re being told to. For me, the biggest distinction in this conversation is that MCO Beauty has made duping as part of their marketing strategy. I don't think there is any other brand in the world that is doing that in the way that they are. So much so that they've actually identified that 50% of their product range are considered dupes and 50% are considered original products. They're telling us that they're admitting that they are positioning themselves in market as the ultimate dupers. And that conscious position, and I quote, I've read this Lux for less products experiences, but for a fraction of the price. That is their marketing, that is their verbatim, that is what they're putting out into the world. The consumer is responding to that. The consumer is reading that and saying, not only am I purchasing a product that potentially is a dupe for a Charlotte Tilbury or you know, a drunk elephant. It's also a better alternative than the Maybellines, the l', Oreals, those drugstore products that are in a more affordable price range. You know, if we're talking in the US in the context of Elf. Yeah, you know, Elf is definitely known as being a dupe LED brand as well, but not in the same way that Emco is. Emco have positioned and as we touched on earlier with the New York City pop up, really trying to, you know, emulate the experience that you have as a Sephora. The tagline for that activation was luxury for everyone. Yeah, they are really going hard on this messaging. For me, that is their marketing tactic. They know it's going to draw headlines. They know it's going to draw a conversation. The reason why everyone was talking about that Sephora pop up is because they knew that duping the Sephora bags was going to grant them headlines. It's a marketing tool.

[B]

Such a fascinating one though, isn't it? Because why, you know, we have had mass campaigns from Maybelline. You're worth it. Like all of these brands creating like great products. Like, I mean I will still ride at dawn for a great Maybelline mascara and I just find it fascinating that they are now the number one makeup brand in this country. Like that speed to number one is like quite frankly my Roman Empire.

[A]

Amco are disrupting to your point, that supermarket drugstore category. So According to an AFR piece that ran in February 2025, since launching with just six products in 2022, EM Co is now the number one beauty brand in Woolworths and Big W. And 40 of Woolworths top 50 bestselling beauty products come from Emco Beauty alone. That is astonishing.

[B]

It doesn't shock me at all. I'm. To be honest, I'm surprised. There's 10 other beauty products that are sitting in Woolworths that aren't Emco.

[A]

It just feels like they are really not just dominating the conversation around dupe culture, they are dominating the shelves in those accessible areas where people are buying their beauty products. So not only is it the brand that everyone is talking about online, on TikTok, on Instagram, it is the product that you're seeing first and foremost. Like their shelf space would be huge.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean when you are in a retail environment, whether it be fast moving retail like a supermarket or you're in a luxury retailer like Mecca, you ultimately are getting space based on your productivity or what you're trying to do in the positioning. I do not think that I am speaking out of school to say that MCO totally disrupted the Woolworths aisle of beauty. And you. You know, I think it went from people being able to go in and buy a deodorant and their toothpaste from Colgate to people going in and having these full beauty experiences. Now you can get a whole face of makeup from Em co. You can have a scented body mist from Jem. You can have a body wash from Soma. Like, you don't need to be leaving the supermarket to get your beauty essentials, which is very different to what that environment had previously been. It was tightly held. That makeup area, the space that makeup has now in store is much, much larger in the supermarket environment.

[A]

I think that accessibility piece and it readily available to consumers, absolutely driving it. Mads, you are really passionate about this subject. We've had a lot of conversations on mike and off mike. What is your hot take on dupes?

[B]

I want to start by saying I have no negative feelings or shame that I want to elicit onto anyone who shops. Amco girl, do what you got to do. I'm out here buying the dupe shoes. I'm out here, you know, buying the dupe of my favorite leggings. I get it. It's my personal experiences that inform this opinion. For me, why I'm so passionate about dupes, particularly makeup dupes, is that I was the senior marketing manager for Mecca in the makeup category. So by nature of that role, I spent a lot of time with brand founders and their senior leadership teams.

[A]

So C suite, which is, you know.

[B]

Your CEOs, your CMOs, those kind of senior figures who, you know, are involved in the strategic operations of the business and the vision of where it's going.

[A]

Big decision makers.

[B]

Yeah. You meet these largely females who have worked so hard by either being in the beauty industry themselves for 20 years or being makeup artists for 15 years, that you start to realize the expertise and effort that goes into it. So seeing someone that you know and seeing the depth of knowledge and then watching that shamelessly get duped, it's hard. It's really hard to watch on a personal level. I mean, I take myself out of that. I'm adding in the subjective context there. If I go objectively, I think it's exploding right now because there's almost like this moral crusade against luxury at the moment. Everyone wants to tear down someone who's charging too much. Everyone is outraged by something. It's exactly what Zara said about the what about me ism. It's, you know, why wasn't this developed for me? So I think people love dupes because it's like, ah, thank you, you've made it accessible to me. And I think my hot take on dupes ultimately is that I don't have a problem and I don't shame anyone for buying dupes. Where I worry about dupe culture is that it flattens industry. It takes away time, effort, energy, and most of all creativity that goes into creativity. Creating something, whether that be product, whether that be packaging, whether that be campaign. I can't help but feel that joop culture, you know, pulls all that back and adds unnecessary pressure to great brands that might emphasize those things to just be as quick as possible to market because you're so scared, turning around, watching behind you, worrying someone's about to catch up. So I think, yeah, you know, there's three key points of hot take. You asked for one, but I gave you three.

[A]

No, I think it's all really important context and I totally understand looking at it from the perspective of someone who is in the industry. Industry. I am looking at this purely from the perspective of an average person who does not work in marketing, who's not exposed to what we are. I don't think they care.

[B]

Yeah, agree.

[A]

I don't think they care, Mats, because the reality of it is they are getting a product that in some cases is like for like. I don't think every dupe is like for like. I myself have tried a couple and by no means would I be replacing my more expensive product, but there are some. I will. And I do think the average consumer, in the current cost of living, the current world that we live in, we where you're looking to save money where possible. It is absolutely the preferred choice. And then you pair that with the accessibility piece. A lot of these luxury brands are only available in certain retailers. Emco is available in majority of these supermarket drugstore retailers. Those two elements are what make them the perfect pairing for people to buy their products.

[B]

Yeah. And for me, I guess my argument was always like, but there are mascaras for $18 if you want one. There's a Maybelline mascara, there's a Rimmel mascar. You know, I know I've spoken on this podcast before about my friend Jamie Lupton who has, you know, Monday hair care and has done days and I mean, there's a way to jute, right. And you know, other friends of mine have SOMA who, you know, are a body care range. They have body washes in Woolworths and they're very like, overt in saying they've, you know, Tom Ford, we love your fragrances, we just don't love your price. And those fragrances are definitely heavily inspired by, you know, these luxury fragrances. But the bottle is different. The branding feels different. I'm like, it's not. You haven't gone and copied everything. And maybe that's what I've struggled to articulate to this point is, I'm okay if you go and get Charlotte Tilbury Pillow Talk lip liner and you go, we know that's their best selling lip liner and we're going to go and try and create that perfect, you know, neutral nude. Where I have an issue and where I personally take issue is no thinking has gone into your packaging, your format. Like, you've unashamedly gone and knocked off the entire thing. You are the channel bag in my eyes.

[A]

That is their strategy. Yeah, it is. It is. It's like the.

[B]

And a performing strategy. Exactly.

[A]

This is the thing. At the end of the day, numbers do not lie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the average person does not care that they are doing what you've said. And I know it's hard for you because you have these relationships and you're in the industry and I totally understand. The reality of it is, Dube, culture is rife on social media and social media has contributed and I would almost say created dupe culture. This conversation is happening in the Zeitgeist, in the Vogue business article that we referenced up top. They actually reported in 2023, hashtag dupe had 3.5 million views on the platform. Now it has over 6.3 billion. The reality of it is brands are responding to the demand and leveraging that.

[B]

Momentum, and customers and creators are clearly fueling it as well. They're seeing it and interacting with it.

[A]

It's getting likes, it's getting views it's really, really rife at.

[B]

As you said, numbers don't lie.

[A]

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[B]

One thing that I've been festering on lately and I'm so keen to get your thoughts is when we originally did the MCO episode and we had social content go live, so many people went to bat for EMCO like they were like, this is the brand of the people. This is my makeup bag that I can get for quarter of the price, a third of the price. You know, people really loved the brand. I have to say now whether that's because maybe I have the passions that I do and interact with the content that I do, but nonetheless still watch mc, you know, content and interactions. I can't help but feel in Australia sentiment has slipped and that the number of creators that I'm seeing paid content from or this dupe is for this is not as prevalent as it was when we did the original episode maybe 12, 18 months ago.

[A]

Maybe that's because the consumer is tiring from it and it does bring to question what is the longevity in this strategy, particularly for EM co because they are so overtly upfront about this being part of their brand DNA. Yeah. Will the pendulum swing and potentially it become an issue?

[B]

Yeah. And whether it's dupe culture or whether it's just customers being addicted to the crack of something new, we have to.

[A]

Be really transparent because you know, we. There are layers of hypocrisy when it comes to dupe culture. And I do think dupe culture, where you sit on it will really, really vary depending on what your interests are. I can always make an excuse in the fashion category when it comes to dupe culture. I'm going to be really, really honest. I do think often about how differently dupe culture plays out in the fashion verse beauty industry. Why do you think we're okay with a brand like Zara duping high end designers, but when MCO beauty does the same thing, there's more backlash.

[B]

I'm guilty of this. Like, I often joke that I'm a total walking contradiction because, you know, I'll sit here and say, you wouldn't catch me dead with an MCO lip liner. Not to say I won't go and buy a $15 lip liner. It just won't be An Emco one. But I'm the first to go, oh, my God, how good is this Zara top? It's a total rip off of the St. Laurent top. Maybe there's two parts for me. One is, I think conglomerates. I feel less guilt over. Like, I don't think Bernard Arnault of LVMH is going to worry if I have a jacket that looks a bit like the Louis Vuitton one. I don't think that's going to affect his bottom line, because there's no world I can afford the $5,000 one. But also because something about, you know, a little Australian brand doing it feels like they're punching up, not being punched down. What about you, when you interact with something that you're like, that's a dupe?

[A]

Well, when I first thought about this question, the reality of it is, for me is I actually don't think there is less backlash. I still think there is as much conversation in the fashion category about dupe culture and how frustrating it is in saying that. I think it comes from the perspective of small businesses being pissed off and about brands stealing their creativity, stealing their ip, and them not being able to legally do much about it or not have the legal powers to be able to fight that. I see a lot of conversations around that. A lot of slow fashion brands, a lot of local Australian brands being ripped off by other brands. And they're not necessarily conglomerates. They might just be a bigger business. And in that instance, I would say the conversation is important. I think it's really important that we acknowledge there is a difference between punching up and punching down. So I agree with you in that sense. I also feel it does matter when it's a bespoke design that feels really unique and intentional versus a white tee from the row that Uniqlo is doing the same one. What's the IP there?

[B]

So, for me, like, the perfect example of this would be if someone ripped off the puzzle bag. I'm like, yeah, I've got a problem. That's like, I have a problem there.

[A]

But what about the Bottega Jody Clutch?

[B]

Yeah. Which I've got a ripoff of from Cotton On.

[A]

So why is that different?

[B]

It's a larger stitch. It's very clear. It's not Bottega. Although I did have someone. I did have someone who does own a lot of Bottega, though. Say to me, I never knew they did that in that weave. And I said they didn't. Cotton on. Didn't. Don't let me near an Open flame, because this will catch a light.

[A]

So in this instance, I think the clear point of difference is if you're two completely different ends of the spectrum. You've got a Uniqlo that's duping a T shirt from the row.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If it's a white oversized tee, fair game.

[B]

Play on. And Cos is the perfect example of this. Everyone always jokes that Cos is the affordable version of the row. I'm like, sorry, there's just a certain amount of stitching on a cashmere jumper I'm just never gonna be offended by, you know, or look at as a ripoff. I'm just never gonna go, well, that was identifiable enough for the row in the first place. Yeah.

[A]

And in this, in our own backyard, I do get. I do get frustrated when I see local brands be ripped off by larger organisations. I've got a couple of examples of this happening. Harper, Lou, they've been duped retailers the likes of AliExpress. It's a direct copy of that iconic dress.

[B]

Totally. The other one was Lavon, who have this really beautiful cardigan that's kind of become a bit of, I would say, a hero within their collections that they do each season in new color. They do these gorgeous little, like, silver bows on the buttons. And that was ripped off by a fast fashion Australian retailer. Also. I want to challenge us on this because dupe culture to me is not just product, it's campaign. And I've seen this done with Henny a little bit. And what can happen a lot of the time is you kind of come up with your core team that you lean on creatively. This happens a lot in beauty and fashion. You'll have a set photographer, you will have a set that you might use or a set style. You'll photograph or edit in a particular preset or, you know, lightroom post editing. I have seen a lot of Australian brands of similar or larger size than Henny start to really emulate a lot of their lo fi and hi fi content that has become quite integral to their brand identity.

[A]

That creative direction is ip.

[B]

It's ip. To me, that's as much IP as the packaging you put your lip liner in.

[A]

Well, it's a brand code because it adds to how you're able to recognize a brand 1,000%.

[B]

And, you know, God bless the Henny girls. I said it to Michelle, one of their founders, while I saw it with a coffee and pumped my chest on the street. She was like, no, we just stay in our lane and do our thing. I was like, you're a better person than me because I'm angry about this for you.

[A]

I think you're angry about a lot of things in this episode. Okay, I've got a quick dupe debate for you. The Ganny ballerina buckles. Do you remember these shoes? I own a pair, so you better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They retail for upwards of 500 Australian dollars. They were duped by a number of brands including Steve Madden, H and M. Do you consider that hard done by for Ganny?

[B]

Yeah. And I acknowledge that that contradicts everything else I've said. And that's the best part about having debates like this is that you're allowed to believe one thing and believe another as well. I felt sorry for them the same way that I went and bought the Alaia Mesh Ballet Flat Jute because there's no world I'm spending $1,500 on a shoe that I will hate in two years. And I still felt sorry for a liar and I still bought the 190 dupe. It's. I acknowledge the total contradiction. I just feel so far away from that. And maybe had I have not, not even, maybe, definitely had I have not worked at Mecca and met those brand founders and seen what goes into creating those products, would I feel this passionately about MCO? I probably wouldn't care 1/10 as much as I do.

[A]

Yeah. So I care. From the perspective of. That's frustrating because there's a lot of creative IP there. It is a very distinctive look and design. So for me it's quite obvious. I think for a creative director or the designer of that shoe it would be quite frustrating. But again, the average consumer does not care.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because the price point is readily available, it's more accessible. If an H M is going to be charging 60 to $90 for the same shoe, it's going to go off.

[B]

1000% because the girlies love it. They're saying it on their Pinterest boards. It's in their feed from their favorite creators overseas. You know, everyone wants to be the Ganny Scandi Girl. It's, you know, and if you can get that for $90 at H& M, you're feeling one step closer to that and that fills your bucket. It's. Yeah, it's a hard one. How do you feel when you unpack it all? Where are you, where are you the least affected by dupes and where do you feel, you know, rage that emulates anything I'm near?

[A]

I care more when it's a local brand in our own backyard being ripped off by a bigger brand. I, full transparency, don't have that much of an issue with M Co in their positioning and what they're doing. I also, full transparency, don't have a big issue about luxury brands being knocked off.

[B]

Yeah, interesting. Can I ask you a question? When it's local brands in our backyard, are you angry when that big brand is international or when that big brand is in our backyard?

[A]

In our backyard, yeah. I do want to wrap this up with a really interesting example I found of a brand taking advantage and reverse engineering dupe culture.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if you saw this, but in 2023, Lululemon actually hosted a dupe swap pop up in Los Angeles. So they actually encouraged consumers who had purchased dupe products of their famous aligned leggings, which are notoriously duped in the US by the likes of Amazon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They encouraged them to bring those products to the pop up and they would give them a free pair of the align leggings.

[B]

I love this.

[A]

I love this.

[B]

I would love to see Charlotte Tilbury do this because I think that they're probably the brand that's been hit the hardest by mco. I would love Charlotte Tilbury to be like, darlings, give me a shit and I'll give you the real deal.

[A]

I think it's a great example. Charlotte Tilbury's already actually done this in a very playful, social way. And in their copy they've got a tagline that they ran for a campaign where it was undupable. So it was making a direct nod to the fact that Amco had been trying to dupe them. I do want to come back to Lululemon because again, they're just really committed to this anti dupe campaign. So the Canadian brand actually secured the trademark on October 21, as first reported by the fashion law after filing to register Lululemon dupe. So they've successfully trademarked that phrase, which.

[B]

Would mean that they could then sue anyone on Amazon or AliExpress or the like, saying Lululemon aligned.

[A]

You correct. The other piece to it is they actually trademarked it for retail and advertising services linked to apparel, footwear, yoga and athletic accessories. So I think they're actually going to use this as a marketing tactic and I have seen a few people say potentially it could be a really fun, playful build on that pop up extension and the anti dupe strategy, which also might swing the pendulum.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. And one thing that I would say is any brand that does marketing, and I'm glad you've spoken about them, Using it sort of in activation and how they might clap back is from a brand perspective, you have to make sure that content is undupable. So my criticism of, say, Charlotte Tilbury, when they came out with the Undubable and they'd been silent for a really long time and then decided to clap, was that it was quite lo fi. They had their products on a fax machine and, you know, pretending to photocopy it and, you know, undoing coming out. That's something I could film in a corporate office. And that's what Chemist Warehouse did as a clapback to the clapback. And I was like, guys, that content needed to be like, nothing's better than the real thing. Charlotte herself should have been in that. I always had this. I'm just going to plug my own great idea was that there should have been all of these Charlotte Tilbury drag queens. And Charlotte just emerged from the middle going, there's no thing better than the real thing. And I was like, you can't do that because you can't get Charlotte Tilbury.

[A]

Yeah, that's quite clever. I do really like that. I do want to end on a question.

[B]

I love when you end on a question.

[A]

Do you think dupe culture as a marketing tactic is sustainable?

[B]

No.

[A]

Why?

[B]

No, not in the current way that it's coming about. I think, you know, that reference that I gave you of SOMA and the reference I've given you of mco, I would say the Soma style has the longevity to go the distance, where the branding, the DNA and everything looks different, but the product, you know, or the, or the good inside feels the same. I think when it feels like you're just control C, control V. I don't think there's longevity in that because I think the pendulum will swing and where excitement comes, outrage will follow and vice versa, and it will probably just keep swinging. So whether that's sustainable for long term growth and building brand. No, I don't think it is. Despite being the number one brand right now.

[A]

Okay, I think we're going to leave it there. That's really solid to close out. Thank you, Maddie. That's all we have time for today. You'll hear Mads, Joe and Annik on Wednesday. Feel free to email style-ishamelessmedia.com or slide into our DMs over at Stylish Pod to keep the conversation going. Big thanks to our show's production team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. Mads, I'll see you in two weeks.

[B]

See you in two weeks. Bye.

[A]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.