How Maddison Sullivan-Thorpe and Rhiannon Joyce landed their dream roles

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Episode Summary
Title: How Maddison Sullivan-Thorpe and Rhiannon Joyce Landed Their Dream Roles
Host/Author: Shameless Media
Release Date: August 7, 2025

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Introduction

In this inaugural episode of Style-ish, hosts Madison Sullivan-Thorpe and Rhiannon Joyce delve deep into their career journeys, exploring how they secured their dream roles in the competitive worlds of fashion, brand management, and media. Moving beyond the typical discussions of beauty and fashion, this episode centers on their personal experiences, the challenges they faced, and the pivotal decisions that shaped their professional lives.

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Planning and Announcement

The episode begins with Madison and Rhiannon expressing their excitement about launching a dedicated episode series focused on brand marketing. They discuss the months of planning and the difficulty in keeping their new format a secret.

Madison Sullivan-Thorpe (00:58):
"It's really hard to keep a secret."

Rhiannon Joyce (01:19):
"So what's different? We'll be analyzing the world of brands with cult followings, creative campaigns that are capturing both global attention and ours, fashion and beauty industry trends and really exploring those career stories that we all know we're dying to hear more about."

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Word of the Week: Embracing the "Heavy Wearer" Mindset

Rhiannon introduces the concept of being a "heavy wearer," inspired by Isabel Wilkinson Shaw of Adasu. This mindset encourages individuals to maximize their existing wardrobe rather than frequently purchasing new items, fostering sustainability and personal style.

Rhiannon Joyce (03:44):
"Now I want to encourage people to try and transition out of this heavy shopper mindset and into a heavy wearer mindset."

Madison Sullivan-Thorpe (04:10):
"Ray, shop your own wardrobe. I've still got work to do."

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Early Career Paths

Madison's Journey: From Law to Beauty

Madison recounts her initial aspiration to become a lawyer, driven by her love for structure and the potential to instigate change within an industry. However, her career path took an unexpected turn when she secured a role as a legal coordinator at Mecca while still studying law.

Madison Sullivan-Thorpe (06:22):
"I loved the concept that things were written down and that's what existed for a reason and a purpose and you followed it."

She describes her first role as challenging yet invaluable, teaching her the less glamorous aspects of the legal field within a major beauty retailer.

Madison Sullivan-Thorpe (10:59):
"It was a really interesting role. We'll forever be grateful for that."

Rhiannon Joyce on Madison's Transition (14:04):
"It's a nice reminder for people out there that just because you're in one place doesn't mean you can't get to another."

Rhiannon's Path: From Multidisciplinary Interests to Media

Rhiannon shares her diverse interests growing up—from drama and sports to strong presentation skills—and how these shaped her approach to career selection. Her entry into the advertising and media industry was influenced by conversations with mentors and a keen interest in consumer behavior.

Rhiannon Joyce (07:49):
"I had a thought bubble of, okay, what industry is tailored to my skillset?"

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First Roles and Lessons Learned

Madison at Mecca:

Madison’s role at Mecca involved ingredient compliance and working closely with the legal team. Despite initial challenges, she leveraged her deep understanding of the company and its consumers to transition into marketing.

Madison Sullivan-Thorpe (13:04):
"I was painfully persistent and unashamed about what I didn't know. I said to them, I am so hungry to learn."

Rhiannon at Poster Scope and JCDeco:

Rhiannon's first job was at Poster Scope, an out-of-home advertising agency, where she developed foundational skills in a traditional, hierarchical environment. Her subsequent role at JCDeco as a sales manager allowed her to appreciate the power of language in branding and storytelling.

Rhiannon Joyce (28:10):
"You don't have to have a sexy product to be able to sell it in a way that's meaningful."

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Transitioning and Expanding Horizons

Madison’s Move to FMCG:

Seeking to push her boundaries, Madison transitioned from Mecca to Bega, a move she describes as stepping into an "unsexy" yet highly educational environment. This role deepened her understanding of marketing science, heritage branding, and consumer engagement.

Madison Sullivan-Thorpe (21:42):
"What I have learned is you don't need to be passionate about the product or industry. You have to be passionate about what you're doing."

Rhiannon’s Growth at JCDeco:

Rhiannon emphasizes the importance of seizing opportunities to expand one's skill set beyond the immediate job role. Her experience at JCDeco taught her the significance of language in marketing and the value of understanding various media channels.

Rhiannon Joyce (20:14):
"It's important that you step into a role that can just open a door or maybe just expose you to a part of the industry."

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Current Roles and Achievements

Madison as a Freelancer:

In a bold move, Madison transitioned to freelancing, establishing her own consultancy, Dom Street. She highlights the challenges and rewards of working independently, emphasizing the importance of bespoke strategies for each client.

Madison Sullivan-Thorpe (37:22):
"You don't need to have all the answers, but it's the best advice I've probably ever been given."

Rhiannon’s Role at Shameless Media:

Rhiannon serves as the Head of Business Development at Shameless Media, where she oversees a growing team and strategizes long-term business initiatives. Her journey reflects her dedication to building meaningful relationships and fostering sustainable growth.

Rhiannon Joyce (42:08):
"I have to take this opportunity because if I don't, it's not going to come up again."

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Key Lessons and Takeaways

1. Persistence and Passion: Both hosts emphasize the importance of being persistent and passionate about learning, even when transitioning between industries.

   Madison Sullivan-Thorpe (13:04):
   "I was painfully persistent and unashamed about what I didn't know."

2. Leveraging Existing Knowledge: Utilizing in-depth knowledge of a company’s products and consumers can be a significant advantage in career advancement.

3. Broadening Skill Sets: Actively seeking opportunities to learn beyond one’s immediate role can open doors to new career paths.

   Rhiannon Joyce (31:27):
   "There is a scope for you to do that."

4. Trusting Your Gut: Taking calculated risks based on intuition and long-term fulfillment can lead to rewarding career outcomes.

   Rhiannon Joyce (42:22):
   "I trust people who are switched on and know what they're doing."

5. Building Relationships: Strong professional relationships and networking are crucial for discovering and securing new opportunities.

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Recommended Resources

Rhiannon and Madison share valuable resources for listeners looking to enhance their marketing and branding knowledge:

• Aesthetic Intelligence by Pauline Brown
• Start with Why by Simon Sinek
• Mini MBA by Mark Ritson

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Conclusion

In this first official episode of Style-ish, Madison Sullivan-Thorpe and Rhiannon Joyce provide an inspiring look into their professional journeys, offering actionable insights for listeners aspiring to navigate and succeed in the dynamic fields of fashion, brand management, and media. Their stories underscore the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and the courage to pursue one’s passion.

Rhiannon Joyce (48:39):
"I hope it's been really helpful and insightful to all those people out there who have reached out and asked us those questions."

Madison Sullivan-Thorpe (49:02):
"Thank you very much, Rhiannon and Joyce, well done on your first ever official episode."

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Note: This summary omits advertisements, intros, outros, and unrelated content to focus solely on the core discussions and insights shared by Madison and Rhiannon.

Transcript

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Foreign this episode of Stylish is brought to you by Anz Business Start right. Worry less about the what ifs and focus on what's next.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hello and welcome to a new fortnightly episode from Stylish. That's right, you are getting more stylish. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe and and my co host is Rhiannon Joyce.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Hello.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You may remember hearing from re on Stylish before. She is of course our favorite fill in host whenever any of us are away. Now we get together every fortnight to have a dedicated episode.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It still doesn't feel real. We've been how long have we been planning this for a few months now. It's been really hard as well not telling everyone.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Really hard. Not tell anyone.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Keeping secrets.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I've found it the hardest from friends because so many people comment when you fill in for Stylish saying, I love the dynamic. God, you can tell that you and Ray hang out all the time and I'm like really hard to keep a secret.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So should we tell everyone what we're actually going to be talking about? Because it's not just about the girly chats of wine.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No. As much as we love doing that. So as many of you know, we have our weekly Stylish episodes and never fear, they are staying put. But we really wanted to create a space for Ray and I to deep dive into all things brand. Think of it like this. Our Wednesday episodes are still going to be really heavy in beauty, fashion and lifestyle. And these ones are leaning just a little bit more into brand. So what's different? We'll be analyzing the world of brands with cult followings, creative campaigns that are capturing both global attention and ours, fashion and beauty industry trends and really exploring those how did they get their career Stories that we all know we're dying to hear more.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

This is honestly what most of our wine bar charts feel like. So it's a bit of a treat for us to jump on Mike and share that with all you guys as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. We love debating what's going on in the world around us and I think both Ray and I are obsessed with both consumer behavior and brands and how they speak to their customers. So we are so excited. We're going to kick off each episode with a word of the week. So Ray, given this is your first time officially on the mic with your own episode, what is your word of the week?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

An honor to start. So look, what you'll hear from me for the word of the week most weeks is I'll try and make it my own thing, it'll be like, it's a hyphenated word. It's actually a recommendation. I'll find ways to twist and turn to just push my own agenda here. So that's what I've done in the first episode. My word of the week is heavy wearer. And you're probably thinking, what? But last week I was having a conversation with one of the girls in the office about how. How often we're buying things per month. And it became really apparent to me that a lot of the younger girls are feeling like they have to buy quite a lot. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing because I've been there. That was me. And it got me thinking as I've gotten older, how I've transitioned out of this, I guess, headspace of thinking I have to buy things all the time and moved away from that into a space where I become a heavy wearer. Now, I did not coin this term. I actually listened to a podcast episode with Lauren Sherman, who interviewed Isabel Wilkinson Shaw, who is the founder of the American label Adasu. And they had this really insightful back and forth in the conversation where Lauren asked Isabel if she shops a lot. And Isabel said, no, I'm not a heavy shopper. I'm a heavy wearer. And I just love that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And now I want to encourage people to try and transition out of this heavy shopper mindset and into a heavy wearer mindset. So go to your wardrobe. Look what's in there. Wear it high rotation. The top I'm even wearing right now, this House of Dagmar white top that, you know, it's probably not weather appropriate, but I throw a blazer over the top of it and you can make it work for winter.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

We need to start encouraging people to not be heavy shoppers and they need to be heavy wearers.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I agree with this sentiment. And you know what someone said to me recently that I kind of loved, it's quite self indulgent, was that she was like, I love that your uniform is like a shirt and the red sweater over the top, like that's really you. And then it also got mentioned the P. Johnson sheer shirt that I wear religiously actually bought it with you, but it's like it becomes kind of part of your uniform. And I love that there's like distinctive pieces that become an extension of who you are and what you wear.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And almost your brand, your own personal brand. It's people look at that item, they think, oh, that is so Ray Coated.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Mads Coded. So, yeah, let's embrace the heavy wearer mindset, particularly in a world where trends are really dominating and people are feeling that pressure of having to keep up with them and purchase items. You don't turn to your wardrobe, become a heavywear, just like Madsen.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Ray, shop your own wardrobe. I've still got work to do. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I don't.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I still buy things. I think it's more about being a conscious purchaser, though.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And not feeling like you have to purchase a lot every month or, you know, every.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You need the latest in great. Every time.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Correct.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So, anyway, let's dive into it. For our first episode, it only felt right that we share some of our own background of our careers and how we kind of got to where we are today. I know that Ray and I speak about this a lot, but we field so many questions, so many across LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok. There's a lot of career questions. I know. We've even sat at wine bars and had people ask us while we're sitting there having a glass of wine. So we thought for today's episode we would break down some of the roles that we've had, the lessons that we've learned from each of them, and the skills, experiences and wisdom we've accrued along the way. So let's dive in, shall we?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I want to start with you, Mads, and ask you the question. When you were younger, did you know what you wanted to do career wise?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was laser, like, focused on what I wanted to do. What you can imagine me to be like at 15 is probably extremely accurate. Like, I think I was the oldest I ever was when I was 15 or 16, and I was so adamant that I was going to be a lawyer, like, obsessed with that mindset.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What was it about being a lawyer that you were so obsessed with?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I've always loved formula, like A plus B equals C, and I loved that the law was that. And I was so passionate about the thought of being able to instill change and work in an industry and really be a fundamental part of a business. And I loved the concept that things were written and they were down and that's what existed for a reason and a purpose and you followed it. So maybe that was like the stickler type A in me that was so enamored and, you know, I gravitated to it so much. Did you know what you wanted to be?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Not so much what I wanted to be or what I wanted to do, more So I knew what my strengths were from a very young age and I was very lucky to be surrounded by people who encouraged me to be multifaceted. I definitely wasn't the smartest kid at school, but I was, I had a very high work ethic. I also was a bit of an all rounder. So I was a drama kid. I loved sport. I also loved learning and I think I've always been a very inquisitive person. I was a good presenter, had a lot of confidence on a stage. I had a lot of confidence, particularly in English. English was definitely one of my favorite subjects because there was a lot of presenting. There was also a lot of, you know, research and it's a very analytical subject and I really enjoyed that. So from a young age I just hyper fixated on my skills.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And then had a thought bubble of, okay, what industry is tailored to my skillset? So I wasn't quite as laser focused on I want to be a lawyer or I want to be a doctor. I was more so what does my skillset suit? And I turned to people who were in my bubble and had conversations and asked them questions around what they did. And one of my closest confidants and really good family friends, Dean Kitty, who ended up eventually being my boss. And we'll get to that later on. I turned to him and wanted, asked him a lot of questions about what he did and he worked in advertising and media and that was the first time I was exposed to an industry. And I was like, huh, this feels like something I could do.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Feels like a bit of me.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Feels like a bit of me.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

When you were talking about being a child, all I had in my head was that euphoria, like Maddie knew who she was from an early age.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That was genuinely me, though. I, I know it's hard when people are probably listening to this, especially if they're young thinking, oh, I don't know, what do I want to do? I'm really unsure. And it's probably frustrating sitting here listening to two people saying they were pretty sure about what they wanted or where they wanted to go.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I mean, I didn't end up where I thought I would.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well, that's it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So maybe that's important too.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That's it. We'll come full circle at the end of this episode and what you'll realize is what we set out to do isn't necessarily where we ended up.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So yeah, there's the five year plans rarely stick.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No, they don't. So can you tell me a bit about your first role?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, so my first role, I was actually still studying in uni at the time. I was studying law and I had been working in a retail job at Mecca. And they had a role go internally at their head office for a legal coordinator, which traditionally that role had been held by a law student who was working within Mecca. So was really fortunate that I got that role. But God, that was a shock to the system. I started when I was 20. I am a baby in a big girl environment where everyone's an adult and wearing adult clothes. And I'm like, my friends are still. I'm like still living at home at the time. Like it was a real shock to the system. And also I was learning as I went. So my key role with them was doing ingredient compliance for all products that we were importing Mecca, you know, a bulk of their businesses as a distributor for other brands. So, you know, checking all of the ingredients and compliance and working with the legal team on contracts for new brands and existing brands. So sexy. It's about as unsexy as it sounds. But working at Mecca was so sexy. Mecca was a baby business at that time, though it wasn't the behemoth that it is now. And what I learned in that role was that it was really dry. Areas of law weren't always as sexy as maybe I had thought they were. This is like pre suits, but, you know, like you glamorizing it. And also it was the most loathed role in the business because my job was essentially to be the fun police. If there was an ingredient in a product from an international brand we wanted to stock, that wasn't allowed in Australia or New Zealand. I had the job of telling a buyer no.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Right, so you're playing bad cop in this scenario.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You're playing bad cop. I worked in Silo a lot and worked with really key stakeholders in the business when I wasn't in that silo. And that was very intimidating when you're like 20, 21, nervously shaking with your voice being like, so sorry that Drunk Elephant's most popular product can't, you know, be ranged in Australia right now. It was a really interesting role. We'll forever be grateful for that. I will probably be most grateful for that role because Mecha Max was being developed at that time and I was working really closely with that team. And an assistant brand manager role came up and much to my parents dismay, I was like, law, I'm 100% obsessed with the marketing team. I thought the marketing girls were the coolest thing in the whole World. I was like, the way they just had an aura. I can't explain it. I just had. They had the je ne sais quoi. That is something we say a lot when it's just the two of us, when we're trying to explain whether someone's got it or not. But I was enamored by them and enamored by the private label business because they. They were just. They seemed like a class above the rest. They just knew every corner of their brand and every inch of what they were working on, from supply chain to product development to campaigns. I just thought it was so sexy. I applied for the role. I actually got rejected, did two interviews, did the case study, got rejected. They went to market for the role externally, came back to me and were like, we want to put you back in the ring. And I think I did it. It's probably the most interviews I've ever done for a role, ironically, given it was so junior and ended up getting the role. So we'll forever be indebted to Mecca because would never have had exposure to marketing had I have gone a traditional pathway.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Why do you think you were the most eligible candidate for that position given that you didn't have that traditional marketing experience? What were the things that you feel you have in you that made you successful?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was painfully persistent and unashamed about what I didn't know. And I said to them, I am so hungry to learn. I. You show me and I will do it. My skill set was very limited versus what they would have had externally. But what I did know was Mecca. And I was obsessed with their customer. And I had been on the shop floor and I had interacted with who that consumer was, and I really leveraged that in those interviews. I was like, you cannot bring in someone and teach them the magic of this business. But I know it. I've got the Mecca genesis quoi. And truthfully, I think that's what got it was that I was so hungry, I was like a dog with a bone. And followed up on emails with them and if you want to get another coffee, if you want to chat, I did that case study. I treated like I was. Honestly, you know, it was like it was my cv. But, yeah, I think it was that real hunger.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I love that it's. It's good for people to hear because it's not easy to transition from, you know, law to beauty, and it's not a traditional trajectory. So it's a nice reminder for people out there that just because you're in one place doesn't mean you can't get to another. It's really important to give context from other people's journey around what it is that got them there. So, yeah, thanks for sharing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's all right. I think a good lesson in it too, is that working in a business that has different functions for you to get experience and exposure in, because it is quite hard if you're in an industry where there isn't additional functions to be moving across or interacting with. That's the other part that I always say to people. Go to big business, where you do have that opportunity to go and get a coffee with someone from a different team and those sorts of things, especially.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

In the early days, because that exposure piece is what can really open up those doors.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Right, so I'll get into my first role after we hear from today's sponsor. Mads, I still can't believe you went freelance this year. You're actually running your own business now. It's huge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I know. It still feels a bit surreal. Honestly, I was so nervous at the start. I had all the classic what ifs running through my head, like, what if I can't secure any clients? What if I spend more on Canva Pro than I make from my first client? What if I have no idea what I'm doing?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, I remember. But seriously, you've made it happen for yourself.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And honestly, once I stopped stressing about everything that could go wrong and leaned into the support around me, it started to feel way more doable. That's why Anz Business start right is so great. It's not just about banking, it's about helping people start strong from the get go.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yep, they've got all the tips and tools. You can even chat with a business banking specialist one to help you with any banking questions. It's the kind of support that will help shift your whole mindset. So you can now start to consider, wait, what's the best that could happen?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

For sure. From step by step checklists with business setup, tips to tools and templates you can use to develop a full business plan or manage your cash flow from day one, they're here to help you with your business from the very start.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So if you've been sitting on a business idea or have been wanting to go out on your own, maybe this is your sign. Start your business right today and search Anz Business Start right.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And thank you so much to Anz for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Mine is nowhere near as sexy.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, spammy.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

As yours, but again, I think it's good for people to know that you don't have to have the sexy start in the industry or land the dream job at Mecca. From the get go. For me, I really, really struggled through uni. I wanted to get through it as quickly as possible. So much so that I actually fast tracked my degree. So a traditional three years doing a comms degree, double major in marketing and advertising, I actually did in two years. During the holiday period I also would do internships, unpaid internships, at a time when that was very common. It's not so much now, but we're talking borderline goodness. I'm going to reveal my 10 years ago. No, we're talking, we're talking 10, 11 years go. So very, you know, different time. I would fly to Melbourne, Sydney, I would stay with family members so that I could afford to be there and I would do internships at various agencies. I would do, you know, I would work in law firms on doing reception work, any sort of job. I could get an exposure to Melbourne because I lived on the Gold coast at the time and there weren't a lot of opportunities. I really tried to take advantage during those holiday periods to build a presence in Melbourne because I wanted to move to Melbourne and eventually I did. So my first job was actually at a out of home specialist agency called Poster Scope. And you're all probably sitting there going, what the fuck, Ray?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Is that? Well, some people might not even know what out of home is.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No. So for those of you who don't know what out of home is, no hate here because it is a very niche history of the media landscape. So out of home is essentially what the term that we coin, advertising when that you see whilst you're out and about. So think billboards, tram wrapstops, any sort of advertising you see whilst you're out of home, that is what we coin out of home. So I worked in a specialist planning and buying agency in out of home. So you could not be more niche if possible. And I'm going to be really honest, that job was not the sexiest. I was a coordinator working across multiple blue chip brands. I was in a very traditional working environment, really strict hierarchy, very. But what I took away from that job has been the foundation for success.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What I mean by that is the skills I learned working in a big business like that and having to report in a traditional hierarchy made me extra vigilant in my day. Today I was a very organized person. I had to be. I also had huge exposure to various brands. You know, we worked across Holden Mondelez, like we're talking big brands. And for me as a junior, I'm going to say as a little junior burger, it was just very eye openening. Yeah, I did love it, but it was genuinely just a foot in the door for me. This is not where I wanted to end up long term and I knew that I, as I said, had a solid foundation, great exposure to big business in the industry as a whole.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I really love how you're talking about joining a business that is not sexy, is not the goalpost, but is the stepping stone in the foundation. Do you feel like there's been a shift in more recent times that people are scared to take the stepping stone or the what they're perceiving as a sidestep?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, that's a great question, Mads. I don't think social media has helped the industry because people expect to have their dream job straight away. And I, I do think that's a byproduct of, you know, everyone showcasing what they're doing in their day to day workplace environment and that comparison piece and people thinking, oh, I want to be doing something that's cool like that or my first job has to look this way. Most people's first jobs don't.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I, I do want to manage expectations with that. It's important that you step into a role that can just open a door or maybe just expose you to a part of the industry, not the whole industry. And it's probably not for me, it exposed me to a part of the industry, but then I had to take it upon myself to really expand my exposure outside of that. And one thing I did take away from my first job was because it was so niche and out of home, I had to understand the broader media mix and the role of each channel. So I really did my own research and had to understand what is the role of TV versus digital versus out of home. Where do we sit in in this bigger media landscape? Because the reality of it was we were also pitching for share. And when I say share, I mean investment from other channels. We're trying to steal money from other channels and put it in out of home. So you have to broaden your media knowledge in order for you to do that and be quite savvy in understanding what doesn't work in tv, works in out of home and building a strategy around that. So my advice to people who are in roles that perhaps aren't the sexiest early on is create more work for yourself to broaden your skill set and your exp. So that you can step out of that role.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I think that's what I did really well, particularly in the early days.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I mean, great segue while you're talking media, because I left Mecca from the assistant brand manager role, working in private label to actually go to fmcg, where media is king.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Media is king.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's amazing we never crossed over.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I moved into fmcg, as I mentioned, which for anyone who doesn't know, FMCG stands for Fast Moving Consumer goods. So anything from like a Dove body soap to Vegemite, which, if you see.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It in the supermarket, it's pretty much it's an fmcg.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So, speaking of Vegemite, that was actually the brand I worked on. And let me tell you, you want to talk glam to unglam, go from lip delicious to yeast spread, because that is basically what it was. But I was so comfortable at Mecca, and I think the underlying theme that I've had within my career is that I really like being uncomfortable and I really like pushing the boundaries. I knew I could work at Mecca for 10 years. I adored everyone I worked with. I loved that business. Leaving was honestly like a breakup. And I went to Biga because I was like, this is unsexy. This is a big business. This is an industry I have no right being in. And also, I want to challenge myself to go, can you market something to the masses? So I went to fmcg, ended up at Bega, who had actually just acquired a Mondelez section of the business, which was spreads. So peanut butter, Vegemite and cream cheese. Just the sexy trio. It was the best decision I ever made for my career. One, I got a pay rise, which at that time was really, really quite especially early days. But it was where I learned rigor and structure and marketing science and principles. Mecca. Everything was done within Mecca. So I worried about my brand within my retailer. Suddenly I had to worry about whether Coles and Woolies were going to take my MPD new product development for those playing along at home. But, yeah, it taught me so much. And it was big budgets that we were playing with a brand like Vegemite. The year that I started, we turned 95, so it was the complete opposite of what I'd been doing. It was, how do you deal with heritage brand? How do you interact with a brand that everyone feels they have a little bit of ownership of that's polarizing for a very culturally diverse Australia, but you're also trying to build, you know, market share and introduce new customers to it. The most fun I've ever had. And what it taught me was you don't need to be passionate about the product or industry. You have to be passionate about what you're doing. And I became obsessed with Vegemite and that is not something I thought I would say in this lifetime.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Sometimes working on the unsexy brand does give you more exposure as well. 100% and more opportunities and more ownership. That's the other thing. You have more space to be autonomous and make bigger decisions than you would if you were working on the most popular brand or the most profitable brand. Sometimes that comes with the most red tape.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I agree. And I also believe you get the most respect. And I don't use that language lightly. But the ability to be able to do the hard things and work on the tough topics is important.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Definitely.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What was your next one, riri?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Ah, guys, I didn't leave out of home, I stayed.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

She just loved bus stops.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, I. I did love bus stops so much. But I will be honest. JCDeco, Jean Francois Deco, if he heard you say the word bus stops, he would be furious because we actually call it street furniture. And I know that sounds silly, but what I'm going to jump ahead to is my lesson, which JCDeco taught me, is the power of language.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And how important language is when it comes to selling a product. So my first job at JC2CO was a sales manager role. For those of you who don't know, JCO is actually the largest out of home company in the world. When I stepped into this role at JC2 to CO, it was a sales position, it was a sales manager role working across a agency patch in Victoria. So agencies essentially are hired as a third party to represent clients to buy media. So some of the agencies I worked on again represented very big blue chip brands, but also some smaller brands as well. So the depth of the work that I had was quite vast. What I loved about JCDeco, I had exposure to them. In my previous role. I dealt with a lot of the sales reps there and I just loved how they would show up to meetings. Yeah, they all looked incredibly polished. They all were incredibly knowledgeable and very research driven when it came to their pitches and their recommendations and I was quite intrigued by that. I was intrigued by the uniform brand position in market and how polished and presented they were. I really wanted to work there. And coming back to my point earlier, my good family friend Dean Kitty was the head of sales in Victoria and I was badgering him for a role.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But the team was Incredibly small. They only had two reps in Victoria representing the whole market.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

One of those reps had decided to move overseas. Shout out to Brad, who is also one of my very good friends, sat.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Next to him at your wedding. We had a great time.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So Brad made the choice to move to London and a position opened up and I basically stormed Dean's office. I called him pretty much every day saying, I need to this role. I really want to work for this company. He was really adamant that I shouldn't.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

He was very conscious of me being further pigeonholed into sales, but I had a really innate interest into sales. As I touched on earlier, I loved presenting, I love storytelling and I loved JCDeco as a brand. So I felt that that was a recipe for success.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I did interview for the role, three interviews. And even by the end, I think Dean was like, I really don't want to give you this job. But unfortunately for him, the high powers.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Had decided that I the right candidate.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So I got that role and I worked at JC de Crow for four years. It was the best job in my 20s and I'm so glad I worked there. And what JC Duco taught me has been the foundation for the success of my role at Shameless. And I'll get to that later on. But I want to come back to my point around the power of language and the power of brand, because JCDeco taught me that one. You don't have to have a sexy product to be able to sell it in a way that's meaningful.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Jean Claude Duco, the founder of Street Furniture. Not Bus Stops.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Sorry.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Really believed in architecture, language, how to tell, storytelling. And although we weren't selling anything that was, you know, changing the world, they really instilled in their brand that what we did had some meaning. It's obviously not saving lives or anything, but every day I showed up and I actually believed in what I was selling. I definitely drank the Kool Aid.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And little things like. I'll give you some examples of the power of language. So when we would sell, let's say something was on sale.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So we had a short term offer. A lot of the language in market, people would say a distressed offer. So it's discounted heavily. We weren't allowed to say that. We had to say short term.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So things like that. And it sounds good.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Test and trial.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes. And it sounds so silly. And again, bus stops, street furniture, it's a collective term for. Because it's not just bus stops, it's bus stops. Tram stops, it's panels in train stations. So street furniture is the collective term that we used. Another one was we out of home? We weren't allowed to say outdoor. So a lot of people say outdoor when they're describing out of home. We weren't allowed to say that it was out of home. So this all sounds ridiculous when I'm saying it on Mike, but I can't stress enough how much that power of language has influenced how I communicate with people. How you are as a salesperson and how that positions you in market, it also elevates your brand. And we were really big on believing that our brand was elevated based on the locations of our assets, the type of audience that we would reach. JCDCO was also a very, very data driven company. And that's where my interest in data and marketing really peaked. I loved the exposure to other areas of the business. The marketing team at JC probably thought I was so annoying as a sales rep because I would honestly schedule my own meetings outside of the general presentations that they would have to pitch to show us the studies that we then had to take to market. I would go out of my way to sit down with, you know, the head of Insights and I would ask question after question to really understand the details of what we were presenting, but also the why behind it. Because understanding our audience and understanding that why was what made me a better rep. But it also, it served this desire and interest I had in marketing that I couldn't get in my role. So I really loved that added exposure to consumer data to the marketing team. And I went out of my way to incorporate that into my day to day job for no reward other than that's just what I liked and I was interested in. That's a lesson I would share with those listening today. Just because you're in, let's say, a sales role or something that feels really specific and niche doesn't mean that you can't expose yourself to other areas of the business. And you've touched on this as well, Mads.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Absolutely.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

There is a scope for you to do that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I really feel passionately about this. And the best piece of advice I got from the general manager of Bigger was you don't need to be an expert in everything, but you need to understand enough and go into different corners of the business. You think, you know, supply chain doesn't affect you, or you think that Insights team might not be relevant because they can input the slide straight into your deck and you don't have to think twice. You want to be able to read the language, walk the walk, and be able to talk the talk so that if for some reason you are asked a question or someone is away or sick or not in the room with you that you have enough intel and enough knowledge that you can speak to. It doesn't mean you have to be an expert. You don't need to have all the answers, but it's the best advice I've probably ever been given.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's an interesting segue for me to something that I really wanted to talk about on the podcast today was also building your knowledge pool outside of your 9 to 5 job simultaneously. When I was at JC2CO, I was really lucky that they offered a lot of external training and exposure to negotiation training, leadership training, also mini MBAs. Yeah, we were given a lot of resources outside of the four walls of JC2CO to upskill, but I would encourage a lot of people to also seek that out on your own. I did want to share some really helpful resources that you can tap into if you are someone who's looking to, you know, upskill and expose yourself to other areas of the industry that you're not focusing on in your job right now. So some of my favorite places to start Aesthetic Intelligence by Pauline Brown I've actually recommended this on the Stylish Weekly picks in the past. It's an audio book available in Australia. It is really hard to get the physical copy because it's quite an old book. But Pauline Brown has immense experience working for LVMH Moet Shandon. She is incredible at understanding the power of brand again, the power of language as well. So if anything that I said around what I learned at JC Deco is of interest, I would definitely recommend reading Aesthetic Intelligence or listening to it. Simon Sinek, who anyone who works in advertising media marketing has probably heard his name before. He is the author of Start with why. Yeah, and we bang on about the why at Shameless Media. I think you'd be pressed to step into this office and not hear one of the senior leadership team refer to the why. Incredible resource that I definitely recommend and it helps you really broaden your thought process and how you show up every day. Pulls you out of the weeds and makes you think about shock.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, the why and zoom out, zoom out. It's not what you're doing, it's why you're doing it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Correct.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Because a lot of the what will fall out of that. It's also side note, a beautiful exercise to do for your personal life. It is yes, your why as a human.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It definitely is. The third and final one I want to recommend is the Mini MBA by Mark Ritson. And again, if you're in advertising, you've probably heard Mark Ritson's names. He's quite a colorful character, Yes, I would say very opinionated, has some really interesting think pieces and has immense experience again working for various luxury and blue chip brands. But that is a course that you can do if you're wanting to really expand your skill set and your exposure in marketing and media and really do a bit more of a strategic deep dive. So I would definitely recommend checking those out.

[Unknown]

Guys, quick hydration break because let's be real, we all need it. Staying hydrated isn't just important, it's essential. And let's be honest, I'll tell anyone who's listening that I'm currently training for a marathon. So on top of my training, I've been loving hydrating with Sodi. Their everyday hydration salts help replenish lost electrolytes throughout the day and after a workout. I honestly have Sodi sachets on my desk at home and stocked in every.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Handbag at this point.

[Unknown]

Raspberry is my current favorite flavor, but there's a whole range of flavours to keep it interesting. Plus it's Australian, made with salt sauce from an ancient salt lake packed with minerals and no artificial flavors. Shop Salt dehydration [e-mail] thank you so much to Sodi for making this episode of Stylish Podcast.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Possible.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So you're probably wondering where and how we got to today and I feel that it's really important. We've spent a lot of our time talking about the infancies of our careers because foundation is everything. And I think now that we intro where we are now, you'll understand why that has been so important.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

We've got to take you on the journey.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We've got to take you on the journey. So for me, I stayed within fmcg. I went and worked at Chobani for a period in a senior brand manager role. I ended up looking after communications marketing for a very brief period in that promotion and actually was invited to a breakfast with a woman who I owe so much to, who has been an incredible mentor in my life, Marita Burke from Mecca, who was like, I'd love to catch up and had someone in my life who said, I don't think you should go for breakfast because you'll probably leave with a job. And you've I didn't leave with a job. I did have to go for the interviews. But I did go back to Mecca. And I went back to Mecca because I had what I would call a once in a lifetime opportunity to go and launch a brand for Mecca. And that brand was Kit. And that was the experience of a lifetime. I love that brand. I adore it. I saw every corner of that business from supply chain to creating tone of voice to building a website to setting up a DTC because we had our own website, to three year innovation pipeline strategies. Building the P and L, managing the P and L. And then my final role at Mecca was looking after the makeup category as senior category marketing manager. And for anyone who's listened to inherited, you would know that I had a little bit of a light bulb moment and left Mecca, which was my dream job, stable, fantastic, adored it. To start my own consulting agency because I ultimately wanted to do what I had done on Kids. Now I run Dom street, which is, it feels ridiculous to call it a consulting agency to be honest, because it is just me and I am a consultant and I adore all of you who DM me. But I do not want to hire anyone. I have zero desire to hire anyone.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You're still in the building phase.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm totally in the building phase. I don't know that I ever want to get out of the building phase either. I love Boutique one on one and I am obsessed with spending time with brand founders. Transparently, I'm working on my own brand. So any time that I can spend with brand founders and C suites, there is something for me to learn as much as there is for me to offer my expertise to that brand. So I work, as I mentioned, I work directly with the founders and C suite. And I guess I sit at the intersection of strategy, brand storytelling and execution. And that can be across anything from creating tone of voice, a three year marketing strategy to international marketing expansion. And what I have learned is no client has a strategy that even remotely emulates the other. Anyone that tells you there is a formula is a liar. There you go. Mic drop, liar. She said it. But it's taught me so much. It's taught me to back myself. For starters, it's a really scary decision to go out on your own and not one to take lightly. It's also taught me that you need to hold and care for those clients, but also remember that it is ultimately their business, you are there to advise and the action that they choose to take is entirely theirs. And also the most like heartbreaking and heartwarming part about being a consultant is that successful consultancy is the relationship ending.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I was just thinking that it's almost, it's sad because you're not with them forever.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No. And it's been really hard seeing projects sort of come to a close. After working with a brand for 7, 8 months working on projects and them going thank you so much. Because either what they've learned is because either what happens is the project comes to a close or they learn that they need a full time hire and it is much cheaper to hire a full time than continue with a part time consultant. That is the reality of consultancy. You're generally short to midterm and you're charging a higher fee than bringing on someone full time. And that also has benefits for a business. They don't have to worry about annual leave, sick leave, all of those things. They can end it whenever they want. There's a lot of flexibility. It works and benefits both parties. But that has been something that I've learned and learning to work with different markets and retailers and environments, it's been a hell of a ride.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That's the coolest thing I've seen watching you go through this journey. It hasn't been very long, but already the exposure you've had to working with international brands as well, various brands across different categories. Obviously you have immense experience in FMCG beauty, but you know, you're not limited to that and it's really great to see how transferable your skills have been to help other businesses and brands. And Mads, fucking good on you for doing it. Because a lot of people would not take the step in leaving the four walls of a very established, secure role to go out on their own. So kudos to you and I love.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Watching you and Ree. You spend a lot more time in Shameless than just in this little chair in this podcast studio.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Now I do.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What is your role?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

My current role is the head of Business Development at Shameless Media. It is by definition, according to Rhiannon Joyce, myself, my dream role. I am so, so happy where I am in my career. I did just celebrate five years at Shameless on Thank you last Sunday and I have been reflecting a lot on the last five years because when I first started out at Shameless, I was the Marketing and Partnerships director. I was given the opportunity to step into that role through a connection. A client I had worked with at JCDICO and had a very good relationship was equally working with Michelle and Zara on a potential campaign. That campaign did not come off, but then I had connected with Mission Zara through that relationship. So we didn't have an immediate job or opportunity come up, it was more so, hey, nice to meet you. Had a bit of a chat at this industry event and then nothing happened. Six months later I had a random email in my inbox from Zara McDonald saying, hey, bit random, would love to catch up for a coffee. We've got an idea that we want.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

To run by you, Sara McDonald and the elusive emails. I've also had one of those.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, it was textbook Zaz. I was like, oh, interesting. I did meet with the girls and basically from that point on I was like, I need to leave this job and I need to take on this opportunity.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Can I ask you something in that Was it gut or was it head that told you to go gut?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

100%.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Don't get me wrong though, missions are I can pitch the hell out of anything. So there was not a doubt in my mind that what they were trying to build wasn't going to be successful. So that is the headpiece in the sense that you trust people who are switched on and know what they're doing. And it was a no brainer. The gut piece for me was leaving a job that I really loved and I'd just been promoted to a group salesman and I was the youngest group sales manager at JCR. I was 26, managing a team of four and that was the job I was working towards and wanted so bad.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I had it for three months when this opportunity came up. So the gut piece for me was more about leaving a role that I really was so proud to be in at a company that I absolutely loved. Rejecting a traditional hierarchy to go into a startup environment, not have a single employee, build something from the ground up. The gut piece for me was that is where I'm going to be able to build something that's meaningful and those opportunities do not come by very often. And the gut piece to me was I have to take this opportunity because if I don't, it's not going to come up again. And yes, I might still be successful in that traditional trajectory of media and build my way up to yada yada yada, but I don't think it would have been as fulfilling as what I'm doing right now. So I stepped into that role. I was the first full time employee at Shameless Media. Belly at that point was working part time as a producer. Yeah, I was essentially responsible for building Shameless Media as a business and establishing our representation in the media landscape. So at that point the missions are constantly being referred to as influencers and we're really trying to reject that notion. So it was my job to come in and establish Shameless Media as a network. This is where I took all the learnings from jcdeco about the power of brand, the power of language, and I applied that to Shameless and basically built our business model with Mission Zara on how we wanted to sell the advertising across Shameless and the Shameless Book Club. I'm going to skip a bit because it is, it's a long five years, but essentially the first year was a huge success. You know, we grew Shameless Podcast ad revenue by 182%. We hired three people within the first two years, predominantly in the partnerships team. And we were just going from strength to strength. Fast forward to now, I would say the biggest difference about what I do now versus what I did then was I was very autonomous. I was very much the jack of all trades, doing everything across partnerships. I did the investment schedules, I did the props, I did the post campaign reports. I did. I got dirty. Yeah, my hands got dirty and I did everything and I didn't complain about it. The other thing I want to just quickly add as well, I took a pay cut to come to Shameless Media and I don't think I've actually told a lot of people this, but again, that comes back to my point earlier around trusting your gut and taking an opportunity that you know is going to be long term, something that really fulfills you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So it's like buying a stock.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Correct.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And you've got to feel confident in it. But I think that's such a great point re to bring up. Sometimes what feels right or is going to help you in the long run is not always short term. Short term is not always the most.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's not instant gratification. I'm getting the biggest salary. It is that long term play. So. So yeah, fast forward to now. I have a team of six who do manage all the partnerships across Shameless Media. I'm less in the day today, so I'm not getting my hands dirty as much. I still can when I need to. I have more of an overarching support for the partnerships team. I work very closely with mission czar on the long term strategy for our business. So if we are launching a new podcast, what does it look, feel sound like? But also how are we going to be able to commercialize that product in a way where it can stand the test of time? You know, we're not a fast fashion podcast house. We want to make sure any product that we launch has longevity. So it's my job to make sure that it is a commercially viable product so that we can sell it and we can continue to, you know, operate the business as we do and pay salaries, push the content out that we want. And I would say as well, the biggest difference in my job right now is it is very marketing focused. I've been able to take that passion and that interest of data that I've had throughout my whole journey and now I get to do that. I work closely with Starburst Insights, really building out, you know, research studies to understand the consumer. Why do you listen to Shameless? Why do you listen to Stylish? Where do you live? What are you doing?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What do you like eating for dinner?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Seriously, all of that insight so that we can make better content and make better decisions around how who we work with as well from a partnership perspectives.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So it's been fascinating watching your career and as Ray mentioned, we've had many sliding door moments, but I remember very early days Mecca Max sponsoring Everybody has a Secret and hearing rave reviews about Ray. And hilariously, a lot of people who had met Ray saying, you two are very similar. Yeah, you guys should probably meet. And then when we did eventually meet, I was enamored by re because anyone sitting on the outside who, you know, I was a shameless listener but also having a keen interest in brand and any successful Australian business or brand and I would say a passion for female founded Australian brand. I was watching from the outside going, holy shit, this is a behemoth. It has been an absolute pleasure as an outsider. And then, you know, in the last sort of 18, 18, 24 months, becoming an insider of seeing what you guys have created and you being a big cog in that wheel has just been like an absolute joy. Don't. We don't do emotional.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No, that's very nice of you to say. And as I said, this is very much my dream job, but I'm so lucky. My team is getting bigger and bigger. I think we're seven now, which is.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And your role is getting bigger. Now add host, head of business development and host of fortnightly episode of Stylish.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I know and I'm so happy to be.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That takes us to the end of our first ever episode of Stylish where we're focusing on brand marketing. We promise we won't be so self indulgent next episode. This is just to lay the foundation of who we are so you know our experience and expertise. But thank you very much. Ran and Joyce, well done on your first ever official episode.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No, I've. I'm so glad we've been able to have this conversation, because as you said in the first part of the episode, Mads, we are inundated with messages about. Tell us about your career journey. How did you get here? And it's really hard to capture that in a story set or a question box or a TikTok so.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Or a coffee.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

A coffee. So I do agree, maybe it's been a little bit self indulgent, but I hope it's been really helpful and insightful to all those people out there who have reached out and asked us those questions. And again, it's just laying the foundation for why we're sitting here and can continue to have great conversations with you guys about brand. So I'm so excited for the next episode.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Me, too. And you can drop us an email anytime. It's the same email as always, which is style-ishameless media.com or you can slide into our DMS over at Stylish Pod. If there's a campaign you see or a brand you're loving that you'd love for us to dissect, or maybe someone you'd want us to interview, please let us know. But as always, we want to thank our team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt, and. And senior podcast producer Kate Emmerburgh. We'll see you in a fortnight.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

See you guys.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Let's go get a wine.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.

[Ruby]

Hello, it's Ruby here, host of Inherited. And you may know me as the. The producer of Everybody Has a Secret, Too. My show, Inherited, explores the rules, rituals, relics and recipes we inherit that shape, who we are. And I have a very special guest joining me. You may know her from Stylish podcast, It's Madison Sullivan Thorpe.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hi, Maddie. Hi, Ruby. What a treat. What an intro.

[Ruby]

Oh, welcome to Inherited. Mads. This really is the perfect opportunity for you guys to get to know Maddie on a new level. I want to talk about how some of the things we touched on in our conversation. Mads?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Ruby]

What did you love about our chat today?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, I think I probably said it best at the beginning of the episode when I said, you know, I share so much, but I'm quite private, and I think I'm quite protective of that privacy and peace. But it's been like a little love letter to my 20s, having turned 30 recently and being able to reflect on, you know, a pretty big decade in my life. So I really loved Being able to kind of honour those 20s and chat about them with you and share a side to me that maybe those listening to Stylish will find very different to our usual pace.

[Ruby]

Yes, I'm sure they will love it. Thank you so much for being so open with me, Mads. I really appreciate it. Here is a little snippet from our conversation.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was married, and I was very quickly unmarried, and I'm not gonna go into all of that, but no one gets married thinking they're not gonna be married, right?

[Ruby]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And so I was married for less than a year. We were together for, God, maybe 11 or 12 years. And when I made the decision that my marriage was coming to an end, I rang five of my best girlfriends and they came over that night and one had a sushi platter, one had sheet masks, one had champagne. I think one brought, like, tea and, like, my favorite snacks that were like, you want to drink green tea? We'll drink green and peppermint tea. You want to get absolutely wasted? We can get wasted, but you've got to eat. So, like, here's your favorite thing to eat. And they are the most incredible people in my life. I get emotional about nothing the way I do about my girlfriends, because I think that the year of. I call it just the year of. It was just the rebuild year. I was just an absolute shell of a human. And I didn't really like going out, and I don't say that, like, to a club. I mean, like, out of my home.

[Ruby]

You can head over to the inherited feed on your favorite podcast app, give us a review, and if you like the episode, share it with a friend, as I'll be back with another episode next Tuesday.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

See you then.