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- [00:00]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Podcast Host / Announcer
We're back with another installment of our mini series Face to Face. Proudly brought to you by Dan Murphy's. In this three part episode series, we're inviting you to sit down with three tastemakers making a mark in their industry. They're the kind of people we'd love to sit down for a drink or two with. Within each episode we'll deep dive into their business and career journeys, lessons they've learned along the way and what's next for them. It's all in the name of great drinks and even better conversation. This series is made possible by Dan Murphy's the ultimate taste maker, bringing us the next generation of delicious low alcohol and non alcoholic drinks. Head in store or to the app to be inspired and find your new favorite and remember to choose to drink wise.
- [00:58]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Hello, I am Madison Sullivan Thorpe, Stylish's Wednesday and Friday co host and welcome to Face to Today. We are very excited to be talking with Nick Shelton. Nick, I'm going to do an introduction for you and as I said to you before we started recording, I'm going to do one hell of an intro. This is very impressive. Nick, you are a media visionary. You started Broadsheet in 2009 after noticing a gap in and I guess an absence in city guides that catered to people who wanted to know where to find the best food, drinks, cultural events going on in their cities. Since that time Broadsheet has expanded dramatically. I feel like that's the understatement of the century. But you are Australia wide now and as of last year you are now in the UK as well. With 3 million website visitors each month, a job specific website scout for roles in creative industries and hospitalities, and an exclusive membership program with broadsheet access. I don't think we have the same 24 hours. By the way. Your cultural impact is undeniable both in the media landscape and in cultural landscape. And there's even the Broadsheet effect that has been termed within the industry. In Australia you have no doubt become the go to website for all of those who want to know about food, drink, fashion, design and travel, all while remaining 100% independently funded. Nick, I. You can probably tell by my beaming smile, I'm very excited to have you here. I think our audience are going to absolutely lap up all of your golden insights.
- [02:29]
Nick Shelton
Great.
- [02:30]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
But what a cv.
- [02:31]
Nick Shelton
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
- [02:33]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
We love a rec here at Stylish. Every week, every episode, we swap in something. We are so excited to have your recommendation and your swap today. So what is Your swap for our audience.
- [02:44]
Nick Shelton
So I was thinking about this and I've sort of been thinking of it through a new mindset or developing this kind of like, mindset as we've been building London over the last sort of six months to a year. And that's about the role of taste. So in this world where we have Instagram, we've got TikTok and, you know, Pinterest and Tumblr before that, there's this idea that you can kind of like, everything's very visual, everything's very aesthetic. So people feel like you can kind of borrow taste or I can take taste or I can, I can buy taste. And this is, you know, not a new phenomenon, but it's something that's been supercharged, I think, with these visual platforms. And so we've been thinking about what is taste and how do you hone taste and how do you develop it, because you're not born with it either. So. So what I'm taking to the role that we're playing in the London market as a, as a new entrant is how can we demonstrate true taste? How can we help people inform their taste? I just think it's something that's actually now a differentiator. It looks like everyone's got taste and it's homogenized, but that's actually not true. Having real, proper, true taste is something to be considered thought through and really, I think the cream rises to the top.
- [03:44]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, I love that. That may be one of our best hops yet.
- [03:47]
Nick Shelton
Good.
- [03:47]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Now I'm like, do I have taste? I'm really going to sit on this one tonight. Nick, you lived in the UK when you were in your early 20s and worked for a very influential Australian owned cafe called Flatwide. What was your experience like working at Flat White and your time in the uk?
- [04:03]
Nick Shelton
Well, I mean, I was doing that thing that so many Aussies do, which is finish uni. Wasn't really sure what I was going to do, so got a working visa, went totally by myself to the UK and found a job. And I was lucky to sort of find this sort of network of people. I'd already been making coffee and working hospitality through uni, so I knew what I was doing a little bit. Um, but back in those days in London, you couldn't get a like a Flat White. Like there was old caf coffee or there was sort of the Starbucks equivalent, sort of like a Costa coffee. So you literally had like in. In the entirety of London, there were maybe five places you could go and one of Those places was flat white in Soho. So I had the time of my Life. I was 23 or something. I had nothing to do other than meet people, get to know this big new city, make a bit of coffee and just enjoy myself. So it was a real high point.
- [04:47]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. I mean, also introducing people to great Melbourne style coffees.
- [04:51]
Nick Shelton
Yeah, you know, it was, it was like, it was a phenomenon. There were queues out the door every morning from like 7am until 11am through that rush hour. Like people just couldn't get enough of it.
- [05:01]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I mean, having been overseas, it's no surprise that people loved having Australian style coffee.
- [05:05]
Nick Shelton
It was really part of that, like that Australian coffee export kind of at the time.
- [05:09]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, that real boom. I feel like it happened in the UK and in New York as well. It's like they finally discovered great coffee.
- [05:13]
Nick Shelton
Exactly.
- [05:14]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
What do you think drew you to the hospitality scene as a whole?
- [05:17]
Nick Shelton
I really like just something about the way I'm wired, really like being a part of community. So if I'm sitting at home having a bowl of pasta that I've cooked myself after, you know, long day's work, I'm kind of still itching, I'm kind of like, I still want to sort of get out and sort of see people or I'll go for a walk around the block or I'll pop into a local wine bar and say hello. I just being a love, sort of love being a part of where people, communities and culture and cities come together. And I find that there's no better place than that than hospitality. Whether it's a, it's a restaurant, it's a cafe, it's a, it's a wine bar, it doesn't matter.
- [05:49]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And so you love this idea of community. You've worked at Flat White, you have this idea to start Broadsheet in 2009. At what point did you go hunt? This might actually work.
- [05:59]
Nick Shelton
Yeah. Living and working in London, it was the frustration. It was, I'm new in this city, I want nothing more than just to get a part of it and meet people and go out and be a part of this community. But London's a city of, you know, 15 million people and it was impossible. So this is 2,000, let's say seven or eight. So the Internet was definitely a thing. But publishing and media on the Internet was still very like leftover from what was in print. So people, the publishers would print and then they would sort of put some of that content online.
- [06:26]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [06:26]
Nick Shelton
So online was less of a resource than it is now. Hard to believe. And I found that I was waiting every week for the newspaper supplements to come out, like the Sunday magazine or whatever. And what I'd find was it'd be like, for example, a restaurant review or here's a bar.
- [06:39]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [06:40]
Nick Shelton
But as a 22 year old, 23 year old, I couldn't afford the Gordon Ramsay restaurant or whatever they were going to talk about. So I was just like frustrated by like, okay, but what do I do? Where do I go? What I found was I had to actually talk to people, meaning I had to know people to figure out where to go. I was, I had an experience where I was having friends over for dinner and I wanted to go and get some meat, something from a butcher. And I was like, I have no idea where a good butcher is. Like, there are butchers everywhere, but where's the good one? Like, where's the. How do you sort of get in the know, in the city? So that was a frustration I had. And then when I came, I actually lived in Paris after that for six months and found the exact same experience and then came back to Melbourne. And Melbourne was going through this cultural boom. So what we take for granted now, like, we're also smug about how amazing Melbourne is as a culture city, as a food city. In 2009, that was really just emerging. So Anna McConnell opened Cumulus. Mark Dunn was opening Seven Seeds. Like, the coffee culture was really taking off. Chin chin open. This idea of kind of like no reservations, high quality, fast, fun food was, was really booming. And my experience was that the media wasn't talking about it, but everybody else was. Yeah. So you talk to a friend who was an accountant and they'd be talking about like, oh, see that for lease sign? Such and such a chef is going in there, I'll open this restaurant. And I'm thinking like, this is a real moment happening, but nobody's, there's no way to go and get information about it. So as a kind of, I guess, naive 24, 25 year old, I was like, I'm just going to give this a go, give it a crack and set it up and built an audience really fast and quickly and it took off.
- [08:00]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I love that you brought up you were 25, because I remember being obsessed with broadsheet years ago and being like, who even created this? So I must admit, I did do a deep dive on you many, many years ago. But you were 25 when you started broadsheet and you went into it without any entrepreneurial media experience. Do you feel that your lack of experience Hindered you or helped you?
- [08:22]
Nick Shelton
I mean, definitely both. If I had too much experience, I probably never would have done it because you. I didn't know what I didn't know. And so what I didn't know was probably scary if I'd known it. But at the same time, you make lots of mistakes. You don't know what you're doing. It is hard. So there is a. There's a slowdown or a hindrance, but I sort of treated the whole thing as just a big learning experience. Like this was my. The, the, the opportunity of a lifetime to learn. It's better than any university course. It's. It's better. Like it's. The best training you could possibly get is by actually doing it. But at the same time, I remember someone saying to me, I was getting advice from over a coffee in the very early days, and he said, you probably have two years where being naive is going to be working for you and people will want to give you a leg up and give you an opportunity and see that you're sort of a plucky young person going for it. After two years, you're going to have to know your shit.
- [09:09]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, it's not cute after two years.
- [09:10]
Nick Shelton
Exactly. And I think that turned out to be true. And I've shared that advice with other people as well. It's like people will want to give you a crack and give you a go, but after a while you've got to figure it out and know what you're doing.
- [09:19]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Do you think that applies to any age or do you think that is something that's relevant kind of in your 20s?
- [09:25]
Nick Shelton
I think it's particularly relevant in your 20s or when you're young and people want to support someone who's young and give you a crack. I think if you come in at 40 and say, like, I've got no idea what I'm doing, people might think like, well, why don't you? But at the same time, I think I'm really encouraged by people and I really value people who will give people a crack. And going into London, for example, like, we know what we're doing in London. Like, we've been doing this 15 years, but it's a new market, we don't know everyone. So there's definitely a sense that we're feeling it, being welcomed there and people like wanting to give us a crack. I don't think because we're naive, but I think it's because we're new and we're giving it a crack. And I think that Energy is positive.
- [09:59]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. Very much like Australia, the UK in that sense, that they do love the underdog as well. I mentioned in the intro the broadsheet effect, which having friends who work in hospitality own within the hospitality industry. I know they speak about it very, very often. It's essentially the effect where customers flock to somewhere that your publication has recommended or when it's been featured on site. When did you sort of first notice this and how did you feel when people started talking about the broadsheet effect?
- [10:29]
Nick Shelton
It's a good question. It was, it was fairly early and I remember in the, in the early days we did one newsletter a week and that was on Wednesdays and we would kind of. Every once in a while we'd just hear someone say that they were that open, the venue, it was going pretty well, people coming through, having a good time. And then at Wednesday at about 1:00 o', clock, there's a queue out the door around the corner and like, what the hell is going on? And someone would say, oh, you were featured in the, in the broadsheet newsletter today.
- [10:52]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
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Nick Shelton
And that was. Yeah, when that sort of idea of the broadsheet effect started taking shape, taking effect, getting around. And that's, that's still how I look at it and judge do we still have the influence we have always had? So I still love hearing those stories.
- [11:03]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I used to work at Mecca and a lot of the time we would have brand founders and their teams come out from different, you know, cities across the world. And a lot of the time they would come and the first thing they would ask is, where do we ate and where do we get coffee? And I would go, have you guys been on broadsheet? And it kind of became this word of mouthing that oversees all of these international beauty brand founders and all of these like colleagues would be like, okay, no, you've got to go on broadsheet when you go to, you know, the different cities across. So know that it's even, you know, hitting New York, Paris, London, they're all talking about it.
- [11:33]
Nick Shelton
That was nice. I was talking to Josh Wood, who's the. Doing the hair at the new Mecca. Yeah, hq. I was talking to him in London and he was saying that he'd been on broadsheet and him and Joe had been going out and sort of hit the town. That was, that was fun.
- [11:44]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. It really becomes like a checklist for them where they to go to as many as possible. And broadsheet is their main source of directory.
- [11:51]
Nick Shelton
That's nice.
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Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Is there a. I guess A broadsheet effect story that you have the most affinity for or that kind of warms the shackles of your heart the most.
- [11:59]
Nick Shelton
There are hundreds, hundreds and hundreds. There are stories like we didn't think we were going to make it as a restaurant and then this happened. Or there's the story of a florist, an online florist, and they were doing pretty well. And then I think we wrote about them for Valentine's Day and Mother's Day and their sales shot up like thousand percent, making that number up. But like, you know, they really shot up and then they never came back down. And. And the founder of that business commented to me that like, we wouldn't have a business if it weren't for broadsheets. Impact.
- [12:27]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
That has to feel pretty nice.
- [12:28]
Nick Shelton
It feels nice that that is, you know, when I talk about before, like, I love community and I love being a part of a city and a part of a culture. To have that impact is really nice. And in fact, our brand mission is about enriching culture. So what that means is any community that we're a part of, we want it to be better because of us being there. So when we go into London, we're thinking about, like, how can, how can our presence make London a better city? You know, it's not just us. There are thousands, millions and millions of contributors to London or Melbourne or Sydney or anywhere else being a great city from a cultural perspective. But we want to make sure that our role is positive and net positive. So when we hear those stories, we think actually it's working. This is, you know, we're having an impact.
- [13:09]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
That's a beautiful brand mission. I also feel like that could just be a really nice individual mission for people to have too. It's a really nice mindset, Nick. We're going to get into the rest of the interview right after a word from today's sponsor.
- [13:20]
Podcast Host / Announcer
Call it a New Year's resolution or a pure coincidence, but at this time of year, many of us commit to healthier choices. And for many of us, that means reducing our alcohol intake. Maybe we're ready to dial back the cheeky midweek wines. Or we opt for a pack of bougie sodas for the weekend barbecue instead of our usual seltzers. Still, no one wants to feel like they're missing out. And with the current crop of low alcohol and non alcoholic options at Dan Murphy's, we don't need to. If this is your first foray into the low alcohol section, I think you'll be pleasantly Surprised? Low alcohol wine has come a long way and Dan Murphy's have all the best bottles like the Petaluma Lumos Sauvignon Blanc or the zesty Sorbet Lemon Prosecco which sounds incredible.
- [14:05]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
If you prefer a crisp beer you're spoiled for choice with some of the.
- [14:08]
Podcast Host / Announcer
Most popular options being the better beer half and the Han low carb super dry light. Dan Murphy's have so many great low elk drinks to discover so you can still enjoy your go to flavors and stay on track with your goals. Be inspired in store online or on their app and remember to choose to drink wise. A huge thank you to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish possible.
- [14:32]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Nick, we want to do a bit of a rapid fire Rex and it would just be remiss of us not to ask you for some of the best recommendations. Selfishly I'm glad I do get to listen back to this recording because this will now become my checklist if I haven't been to some of these. But our audience love a recommendation, hence where the swap came from. But we've got some hospitality based questions. The first is who do you think serves the best coffee in Australia?
- [14:57]
Nick Shelton
I mean that's a really hard one because they're so good now. Like it's now we're so spoiled as a country and as a cities that we can go so many places. My personal everyday day every morning coffee is Market Lane in Carlton. Yeah, I'm in that coffee window when I'm in Melbourne every morning bright eyed looking for my coffee. They're great. Yeah.
- [15:15]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Okay, fantastic. Add it to my list. I haven't actually been there. The next one is Melbourne specific, which selfishly I'm thrilled for. Where do you think does the most top tier sandwich in Melbourne?
- [15:26]
Nick Shelton
Again that's really hard.
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Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So we're asking you to pick favorite children.
- [15:29]
Nick Shelton
Okay. So I would say Nikko's on Kerr street in Fitzroy is great. I think Hector's Deli. What Dom is doing at Hector's Deli is like everyone knows it but they know it for a reason. It's just so great.
- [15:40]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I have to ask, what is your favorite at Nico's and at Hector's Deli?
- [15:44]
Nick Shelton
Because I get the chicken special the morning after a big night. That's. That's a good one.
- [15:48]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
After a few Chablis. Another Melbourne specific question, but where is the best date spot in Melbourne?
- [15:53]
Nick Shelton
Probably Napier Quarter. My wife and I still go on date nights there. Like when we're in Melbourne and the sun is out, we're like, let's go to. Let's go to Napier, have a wine.
- [15:59]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
It's a really good spot there.
- [16:01]
Nick Shelton
It's a good spot. Yeah.
- [16:02]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
What's a recipe you always return back to?
- [16:04]
Nick Shelton
I am obsessive about Americana, that sort of Roman pasta dish. I had one a few years ago in Rome and I was like, I have to be able to make this. And so I go back to that again and again and again.
- [16:13]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Can I ask, did you get the recipe while you were in Rome or. It's.
- [16:17]
Nick Shelton
I mean, it's such a classic. Like, it's just a few ingredients, and so it's really just about, like, what time do you bring different ingredients in? How long do you let the tomatoes sit for? How long do you let Guanciale said for? So it's really just about, like, tinkering with the specifics.
- [16:28]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. I find I often get tripped up by the most simple of recipes, though. It feels to me that.
- [16:33]
Nick Shelton
That you can hide. It's all about crafting and honing that.
- [16:36]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Who's a food content creator that you're loving right now?
- [16:39]
Nick Shelton
We're working in London with a writer named Jimmy Femarewa. He was the restaurant review reviewer for the Evening Standard a couple of years ago, and he's now a columnist for us and he writes a column called the Counter every Tuesday. I love Jimmy's writing. Like, being able to work with such a huge talent is. Is really phenomenal. And he's got a big following, so that's exciting.
- [17:00]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I love that. And then best night of the week to eat out.
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Nick Shelton
I think a Wednesday.
- [17:04]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yes. I very much agree with this.
- [17:06]
Nick Shelton
I love a midweek Wednesday when it's not like it's not a party night every night. Not. Not everyone's there to let loose. It's just a very nice crowd. The people who want to be there are there and who are sort of like that, you know, dedicated restaurant audience.
- [17:18]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Okay, Wednesdays, it is hot. Take watch every restaurant in Melbourne and Sydney, Adelaide, you name it. Be buzzing from Wednesdays.
- [17:25]
Nick Shelton
They need to be full on Wednesdays.
- [17:27]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Okay, back to a little bit of business chat. Obviously, now you are running a really large team, and as a leader in your field, I imagine you're called upon for advice pretty frequently. The irony, we are also calling on that advice. What's a piece of advice that you always give that people maybe dislike hearing?
- [17:44]
Nick Shelton
What I go back to a lot is don't accept conventional wisdom. And it's not that people don't like hearing that, but it challenges people so if it can be within our business, it could be with someone I'm just talking to or giving advice to. In life generally, the idea that, like, well, this is what people say. This is like, this is what you're meant to do. This is how you meant to do it, I'd always say, like, reject that. And I think that comes from the very core of, like, when I started the business, people would say, you're crazy, you're 25. Media's hard, it's only getting harder. Don't do it. Like, I had people literally tell me, like, don't do this. Okay, great. We, we understood each other. You're not going to do this. Great. And of course, I just went on and did it, and I'm so glad that I did, because I could have easily listened to that advice and thought, like, okay, this is going to be too hard. I don't know what I'm doing. But we even say that within the business. So we have this, this idea that the thing I hate hearing the most within our business is, oh, that's not how we do it. A broadsheet. Because if you're saying that it might be the case yesterday, that's not how we did it, and we didn't do it for a particular reason, but today it might be the right way to do it because the environment's shifting so quickly. Whether it's audience appetites, advertiser appetites, it's the distribution platforms like Google and Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and what their algorithms are doing. We have to be like, so adaptable all the time. So the idea, and we know this, the world is changing so far so quickly all the time.
- [18:55]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [18:56]
Nick Shelton
That the mindset of adaptability and entrepreneurial doesn't matter how big, how established, how long you've been going, you've got to be able to sort of shift and change.
- [19:04]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. Which is such a perfect segue because as you mentioned, the media landscape is changing so rapidly, whether you work in publication or on brand side or in media. Like the way that the algorithms are changing, the way that the audiences are interacting with. What have you, as a publication, found the most challenging in that space?
- [19:23]
Nick Shelton
Well, I guess the challenge somewhat like the most challenging, but the challenge is always that it's changing. It's, it's, it's literally that you can, you know, as publishers coming up through the sort of 2010s, I guess we all built these businesses on Facebook, and then Facebook one day was like, actually, we're going to do something different now. And Sort of change a corner. And so that destroyed loads and loads of media publishing businesses they had built themselves entirely on Facebook. Buzzfeed being the kind of the, the shiny example. But the way we thought about that was it's not about the algorithms, it's not about the platforms that disintermediate your relationship with the audience. It's really about what is your brand, in our case, broadsheet, connecting to the audience about like what's the conversation we're having. And yes, we can have that via a, within sort of a Facebook environment or an Instagram Environment or TikTok Environment or Google environment, but really it's about that connection. So that means that if those environments change, if the algorithm shift, if they want video instead of written or instead of imagery instead of audio, what happens to me, it doesn't matter. It's about that relationship. And so again, adaptability, if you're adaptable as you sort of ride the waves of those algorithms and what they need, but you're keeping your eye on that relationship with your audience and are you giving the audience what they have come for, then I think you're good.
- [20:29]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
That's brilliant advice. It's been so interesting watching it as an outsider, the way that media landscape's changed. And I love what you're saying about adaptability because it does feel like, you know, two people who might on paper look so similar. One loves video content that's like snackable in 15 seconds on TikTok and someone loves long form sub stacks all of a sudden. And it must be so hard to cater to all of those people, but.
- [20:53]
Nick Shelton
It'S like what you do. So you've got, your audience is stylish, they want the information you guys are providing with them, they want to hear the conversations. It could be audio, can be video, it could be written, it could be an event, it could be a pop up, it could be a book. It doesn't, doesn't really matter. What matters is that they want that information and they want it in the style you guys are providing it. So that's the way we think about it.
- [21:11]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I'm glad you listed basically every pillar of what we offer in Stylish except a book. But you know, never say never do it.
- [21:17]
Nick Shelton
We did it. You can do it.
- [21:18]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Okay, good to know. We'll ear back that one. What do you think was most important when you launched the brand?
- [21:23]
Nick Shelton
Initially for us it was about establishing credibility really quickly and being absolutely steadfast about delivering that. So I kind of came to this conclusion really quickly. That if our audience could trust us, they would keep coming back to us and keeping reading us and keep using us. And then advertisers would come and they would sort of also leverage that credibility and we could build a business off it. So for us, from day one to now, 16 years later, in the UK, as we're growing a new business again, it's all about, like, how can you get the audience to trust you? And there's no shortcut. It is deliver good advice, good recommendations that people follow. They like it, they come back, they do it again. They do it again, they do it again. And that's how we build the broadsheet effect. Talking about before, that's the idea that people can say, like, well, you know, sometimes we get these sort of almost backhanded compliments where people say, I only don't even read the articles, I just read the headlines. And we go like, we'd really like you to read the article. There's a lot of great information there. People worked really hard on it. Like, there's a lot of depth there. But we know that when people say that, what they're saying is, we trust you.
- [22:21]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [22:22]
Nick Shelton
And at the end of the day, that's. That's what we're after.
- [22:24]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. You're like, thanks for trusting us, but we would love. If you just read a little further.
- [22:27]
Nick Shelton
Down, you'll know more. Like, you know, there's more information than just the headlines.
- [22:30]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. You can trust us even more. I mean, it's funny, right, because you started the business in 2009, it kind of feels like you're almost starting again in the UK in 2026. We have so many, I guess, young and ambitious listeners who are thinking about starting their own businesses or brands now. What do you think is the most important in 2026? I feel like I can almost guess that the answer might be the same, but I'd love.
- [22:52]
Nick Shelton
It is the same. But I think I say this to a lot of friends who are encouraging to do the same thing, which is like, go overseas or start in a new market. And that is that the hardest part about this is getting on the plane. And while that sort of our challenge of going to a new market internationally, what it really means is the hardest part about doing something is doing it. Like, the hardest part is the first step. And that's just saying, like, whether it's getting on the plane, whether it's writing that first article, whether it's producing that first sample, whether it's just like building the brand, in some cases just getting A graphic designer, just to create something so it's going to make it feel like it's happening. There was a wonderful piece of advice. I think I'm getting this right when I say it was Tanya Austin. You have to push it to make it go. And I love that. That really, really resonated with me. And it's like, things happen, like. Like, we think things are moving forward when you're just kind of like, coasting, but actually, to make them work, you've got to push them.
- [23:40]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [23:41]
Nick Shelton
Get up. You got to do it.
- [23:42]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [23:42]
Nick Shelton
And I think that that very simple practice makes all the difference.
- [23:46]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I love that. As I mentioned, I worked for Mecca for a while, and Joanna Horgan has another great one, which is fail fast and fail forward. And I loved that a lot as well, because I think much like the push to make it start, a lot of people are so scared to fail.
- [23:58]
Nick Shelton
Yeah.
- [23:58]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
But I think that's. It's okay to fail as long as.
- [24:00]
Nick Shelton
You'Re like, you have to fail keeping pace, not fail. Like, if we fail every day and. Or, you know, we learn lessons every day or things don't go away every day, and from those, you learn, you learn, you learn. And that's how you go from being naive to being expert.
- [24:12]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. Speaking of failure, has there ever been a moment, you know, obviously running your own business, being young at that time, evolving with the business, like, you. You kind of grew up with Broadsheet. Was there a moment that you were like, I've just had enough. I've just. I just want to throw in the towel.
- [24:26]
Nick Shelton
Never. Because there's always a new. A new challenge.
- [24:29]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [24:29]
Nick Shelton
Like, I say it less now, but it's sort of still just as relevant. But I used to say this a lot, which is when people would ask me, what's the biggest challenge you've had with Broadsheet? It was always that. It was growing pains. Yeah. And doesn't matter if that was like, just me on a laptop or it was a team of, you know, we've now got 80 people plus. That's the most we've ever managed. That's the. That's the biggest team we've ever had at any one point. And at some day, it'll be 100, 200, 300. It'll be like, well, that's the biggest team I've ever had. It'll be. This is the biggest audience we've ever had. It'll be. This is the first time there'll be some new product or new platform or algorithm. And like, this is the first time we've done this. So this sort of mindset of we're not afraid of trying new things, we're sort of embracing that change and that development and that growth means that I'm never bored, always having a good time.
- [25:10]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. Do you feel that the growth mindset of the business is, is I guess fueled by your personal growth mindset?
- [25:16]
Nick Shelton
I think we've built that into the DNA, but of course it comes from like being an entrepreneurial founder led business. I think that's helpful for it. But of course we want to learn that as a business. But I think it was really important to us that we built this model and built this sort of DNA and built this mindset of like we're growing. Like it's not about sort of, sort of saying, oh, we're this mature business and, and we're happy with where we're at. It's about saying, no, no, we're always growing, we've always got more, we've got a bigger audience to grow, we've got more advertisers to work with, we've got more stories to tell, we've got more opportunities in culture to sort of reveal stories and shine lights on sort of interesting people, interesting places. And then I guess, you know, the, the big recent one is getting on a plane and going to London.
- [25:54]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, yeah. Uk, here you come.
- [25:56]
Nick Shelton
That's it.
- [25:57]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So, I mean the brand identity is so strong and I've worked in brand for a really long time. I love a strong brand DNA. I think that yours is one of the best I've seen. How do you feel it's evolved over the years?
- [26:09]
Nick Shelton
Well, it's evolved a lot, but we've had a lot of consistency in how we worked on the brand. So the brand was developed with a studio in Melbourne called Studio Round and then a year later the designer that worked on that guy named Reese Gorgo set up his own studio. So then we worked with him and then we brought it in house. But it was with a team that had been working with TC Reese's studio and Reese is still my best mate and we still work on it all the time together. So this has been sort of consistency and love and I think again building it into the DNA of the business. Where people say like the brand is important, like this is not about working with partners or advertisers or whatever else and saying, oh, you can do whatever you want with our brand. It was always like, this is sacred, this is again, it's that sort of credibility, consistency thing. It's about saying, like, this is who we are and it's what we stand for and that's reflected through our brand. And so we were always very, I don't say uptight, but we were very like protective of how we expressed our brand. That doesn't mean we don't have fun with it or have whimsy with it. Like, that's important. And we want to always kind of like take it to new places, but with kind of like a rock solid knowledge of like what it is and who we are and what it stands for.
- [27:11]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Do you think that other businesses could learn from that? Do you feel that people are less protective of their brand now in 2026 than they were in, say, 2009?
- [27:19]
Nick Shelton
Yeah. You're like, again, we're in such a visual moment right now with our phones and with TikTok and Instagram, you sort of brand has to show up visually all the time. And so it's really easy to get sick of seeing your brand, I think, and going like, well, let's change it, let's make it purple and green and yeah, put it in a different font and change it, whatever. And I think you can again, you can change it, you can play with it, but being like rock solid on what it is and you know, we don't change the typeface, we don't, we don't change how we use that stamp. And it's also the principles. The principles are there's a legibility to it, there's a cleanliness to it, there's a, there's a sort of, there's a space and an air to it and we can play with it, but as long as that's the consistency, then, then.
- [27:58]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
It maintains, yeah, speaking, I guess, of that protectiveness and that maintenance of brand, you are still 100% entirely independently funded, which is very rare in the current day and age. Particularly when I think anytime you get on Tik Tok, someone's talking about how to raise capital or, you know, how to gain investment. How important has that been to you for Broadsheet? And has there ever been a moment you've considered taking investment?
- [28:25]
Nick Shelton
It's been hugely important because it gives you total optionality and total choice. Like I haven't got to go to a board and ask permission to do anything I can. I can still be very much like a hold the vision. One day we probably will and that'll be about like expansion. We might get to that point, but at the same time maybe not because it's allowed us the, the space and the Oxygen to be able to really be single minded on what we want to do and we don't have to compromise against competing interests. Having said that, it's, it's very difficult. It means that we've gone slower because we've only ever been able to build the business off the back of the cash flow that we, we develop. It's much easier in many cases to say, I'll sell half the business to an investor and they'll use that money to, to create content and build audience and into new markets. And that's, that's the way lots and lots of, if not most people do it. But we've just found that the slow and steady way has allowed us to kind of do it our way.
- [29:17]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
And that's worked for me in terms of, I guess, advice for other young entrepreneurs or just entrepreneurs in general. I mean, you know, some great brands being started by people who start them when they're 40 or 50. What advice would you give someone who.
- [29:28]
Nick Shelton
Is starting out to be really clear on your vision? Now that doesn't mean that things don't change and that the road doesn't, doesn't shift and meander because it definitely does. But the way I've always seen vision is about like a horizon point. So you look at this place on the horizon and you think that the road is going to be sort of straight and it never is. Of course you're going to shift and you're going to, you're going to move left, move right and go over hills and up, down and through tunnels. But if you keep your eye on that vision, that horizon point, I think that's really important and that we find that that means, is when you reach your vision because it's horizon point, it kind of keeps moving and that's what keeps you motivated and keeps changing. You don't sort of arrive somewhere and go like, well now what? Now we're sort of done what we've set out to do.
- [30:05]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, shut up shop. Now that we've.
- [30:07]
Nick Shelton
Okay, great. And then that's when you get into that kind of like coasting, kind of like no growth mindset. You're just like, well, here we are, this is now we have to kind of invent something new to chase.
- [30:15]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [30:15]
Nick Shelton
This idea of like constantly kind of pushing forward, pushing forward, pushing forward, but being really clear on that, that horizon point has been the way I visualize it.
- [30:22]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. And I know that you mentioned obviously not taking the funding has meant that some things have been slower and steadier than maybe if you did Take investment. How do you think, though, in 2026, for a brand to kind of get that growth and scale their best to operate? What's. What's the piece of advice you'd give?
- [30:39]
Nick Shelton
Well, growth and scale are hard, and I think it gets harder. And this is only finding the uk. Like, we've shown up in the UK and we've, like, got to build it from audience member number one. And the mindset that we're taking there is about being very high quality and about offering the market something that they don't already have and about being really clear on what that is and how we do it. But I think it's just one step in front of another. And this stuff takes time. As I said before, there's no shortcut. You just got to do it day in and day out with the best you can.
- [31:02]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
The push to start.
- [31:03]
Nick Shelton
That's it.
- [31:03]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Is there a moment that you're most proudest of?
- [31:06]
Nick Shelton
I mean, there are loads and loads and loads. The ones that come to mind are like, the COVID era. Yeah, I think that was really, really tough for us. Like, you know, advertisers just paused everything. They didn't know what was going on. Audiences didn't know what was going on. We had this. And at the same time, if we think about it, the city shut down and we write about cities and we write about community and culture, and that just stopped. So I remember being on a. On a phone call with my editorial director, Katya, and we were like, what are we going to do? This is crazy. But it took us, like, 30 seconds to realize, actually we don't write about cities, we write about culture and we write about community. And just because the cafes closed and the shops are closed doesn't mean that culture has stopped. So we developed this brand platform which we called Culture Never Stops. And they meant that we were going to tell you about, you know, how are you going to, like, maintain connections with your friends, how are you going to order food at home and who's doing what in terms of, like, delivery? That really, like, exciting, innovative era, exercises in music, that whole thing. And we had the biggest traffic month we ever had at that point was in March 2020, which in, like, is kind of astonishing.
- [32:10]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I think that debunks just about every other business that was operating at that time, because it probably was the complete contrast.
- [32:16]
Nick Shelton
Well, it was, it was. It was interesting because that was the biggest traffic month, but definitely one of the lower revenue months. Yeah, but we had a great team and we really hunkered down and we, what we, what we looked at and said to ourselves was, we're not going to put our head in our sand. I think a lot of businesses, or certainly a few of our competitors said, like, we're just going to wear this, like, weather this out. We're going to put our heads in our sand. We're just going to kind of like bunker down and get through it. Our mentality was, if we serve the audience and we serve our advertisers as well as we can through this period, we'll come back and it'll be kind of in a pretty good shape on the other side.
- [32:45]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah.
- [32:45]
Nick Shelton
And that's what ended up happening. So that was a really proud moment. I think launching in London has been a really proud, reflective moment for me because we get to take this thing that we almost take for granted. Like, we're like, oh, yeah, brought you, like, we do it every day. This is who we are. We know it when we take it to a new market and people respond really positively to it and they go like, wow, that's really exciting. This is a big, huge metropolis with a major media market. Like, huge, huge media market. This is new, this is different. This is really welcome here. That's sort of like a. It's a nice moment to reflect and think like, oh, what we built is pretty cool.
- [33:15]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Is there been like a milestone in the UK that you've been the most excited by or that has fueled the fire?
- [33:21]
Nick Shelton
I think the launch party was pretty fun. We had 400 people come to this event, which was really to mark the. The first print issue we'd done there. And the print. I was so, so proud of this print issue. Like, there was like a brand new team of people taking, of course, working with people in the Australian market who know it well, and reflecting this new city to us back to itself in a way that was really high quality, incredible, was a really cool feeling. And then to be able to celebrate that with these Londoners who are very welcoming to us was. Was a cool moment.
- [33:49]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah, they love an adopted Aussie as well. Has there been something that's challenged you feel has challenged you the most in the UK market that feels substantially different to the Australian market?
- [33:59]
Nick Shelton
Not really, because the way we think about our brand in some respects is that it's a lens. So what we're looking at might change. And that's, you know, that was a lesson we learned when we went from Melbourne To Sydney like 14, 15 years ago was we were like, oh, we'll do the same thing in the different Cities and it'll be great. And it was like, Sydney's not responding to this. Yeah. But we realized was actually broadsheet should be a lens. So the lens being, you know, we love people who are giving a crack and doing things with high quality. We love authenticity, we love culture. And so when we look through that, Melbourne and Sydney are very different places and they, they are different communities and different cultures. And, you know, one's an outdoor city and one's an indoor city and one's, you know, influenced by the weather more so than the next. And so that was a real lesson. And so we've gone to London. We haven't tried to make it look like Melbourne or Sydney. We've, we want it to look like London. But it's with that lens that broadsheet.
- [34:44]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Brings that's been consistent much like you did back when you were working at Flat White. A lot of Aussies love flocking to the uk, whether it's to live, do the stint before, you know, they kind of figure out what they want to do or, or they do it when they're very well established and go, I just need to get out of here. Do you have any UK favorites that you could share with our audience? Whether they're living or traveling over cafes, restaurants, you name it.
- [35:05]
Nick Shelton
So I'm going back tomorrow for a big stint and the one that I'm most looking forward to going to is a place called Eel Sushi. It's in West London. It is like as high quality, good omakase sushi as you could possibly want, but it's in a really casual, fun environment. It's only like 12 seats and I think like a few of them are available to booking, but mostly you just got to walk in, sort of pocket your head in the door, you can have some sake or a beer and smash some sushi and it's excellent. And then you walk out again. That's very cool.
- [35:30]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
A lot of good girlfriends in London. So you bet. You've just found our next girls date night spot. I have to ask you, do you prefer a reservation or a walk in restaurant?
- [35:37]
Nick Shelton
Both.
- [35:38]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Okay.
- [35:38]
Nick Shelton
Like I think, I think you need both. And I think my, my big piece of advice when it comes to like going out is develop locals and become a regular and then you get treated like, you know, if you don't have a reservation, they'll find you a seat. Like, I think that's the biggest unlock when it comes to like your local spot.
- [35:52]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
I think that is tr. To be rich in life. That is like my I go to my local. It's Albert's Wine Bar in Armadale. And I was actually shattered. I was there last night and they've replaced the chairs and the previous chairs. My name is carved under one that I'm there that often. And I'm like, that's, that's when I know I've clocked the game.
- [36:07]
Nick Shelton
And I'll bet when you go. And they're like, oh, we, we haven't got a reservation. They go like, okay, well Maddie, come, we'll find a spot.
- [36:12]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Yeah. No, I'm like, greeted with hugs and like, they know what wine to bring over. I'm like, well, I don't know whether this is telling of my consumer behavior. Right. Nick, we love a hot take. I think it's largely because we just love, you know, some things that can be a little bit controversial or, you know, that really your expertise. We love to ask what yours is. And I'd love to know if there's something that comes to your mind immediately when I say, like, nick Shelton, hot take.
- [36:38]
Nick Shelton
Well, I was thinking about this. We wrote a story in the London. The London print issue, second issue, a couple months ago. And it was the idea of defensive small plates. And I really embraced that because I think there's a bit of a pushback now on this sort of small plate sharing. People are a bit over it. I don't want this to ever go away. I think the idea, again, community. I think the idea of like coming together with your friends, with your community and being able to share and sort of like decide, like collaborate on a menu, on a dish together, that's. That's what eating out is all about for me. And so my hot take is main meals are designed to be shared. Yeah.
- [37:10]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So your worst nightmare must be going to a wedding where it's chicken or beef main for everyone.
- [37:14]
Nick Shelton
So boring. Isn't that so boring?
- [37:16]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
So boring. The worst kind. Sorry. To anyone who's wedding I've been to where you've done chicken or beef. Nick, it has been such a pleasure to have you. I think that I speak for every audience listener that they have been on broadsheet, that we have broadsheet to thank for discovering our favorite cafes, private dining rooms, restaurants. I'm really just clearly naming all the things I found on broadsheet, but so impressive. And wishing you all the best for the uk. It sounds like it's been off to a tremendous start, but I have no doubt it will be as big and bold as it has been in Australia over in the uk.
- [37:46]
Nick Shelton
Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.
- [37:47]
Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Thanks. This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.