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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by the new Dyson Airwrap Coanda. 2 times multi styler and dryer with 2 times the power for faster drying, better curling and straighter styles.
- [00:24]
B
Hello, and welcome to our fortnightly episode of Stylish. I am Madison Sullivan Thorpe and I am joined by my Fortnightly co host, Rhiannon Joyce.
- [00:33]
A
Hello.
- [00:34]
B
Otherwise known as Badgal Riri.
- [00:36]
A
We're in routine. We've got rhythm. We've got flow.
- [00:38]
B
We've got flow. I mean, hilariously, I did just go to do the Wednesday intro of Stylish. I'm like, oh, God, I'm in such routine pattern now. I've got to get out of it and, like, get into the Fortnightly.
- [00:48]
A
No, bring the Fortnightly one. Front of mind, front of mind.
- [00:51]
B
Talking brand, talking business, talking campaign, talking Strat.
- [00:55]
A
Juicy one today as well.
- [00:56]
B
Juicy one today. I'm excited to get into it. We both put up an Instagram story on our DMs asking our listeners what they thought of LTK and other affiliate platforms and holy hell, I think collectively we've had like 500 plus responses.
- [01:13]
A
Wild. I have never received so many replies off a question box. Which one is so bloody humbling. Come at me for other things other than.
- [01:22]
B
Yeah, you feel about affiliates. People were like, tap, tap, tap. It's our turn to be on.
- [01:26]
A
The mic is on and they're on here.
- [01:29]
B
They're on. And so great that we've had so many of those answers that we've been able to integrate and come from those points of view. But before we get into it, we love a word of the week. Ray, what's your word of the week?
- [01:40]
A
My word of the week is, again, not one word, it's two.
- [01:44]
B
Don't kill me.
- [01:45]
A
But you've picked up on the trend now that we just make this what we want. Sexy tops.
- [01:50]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [01:51]
A
I'm in my sexy top era.
- [01:52]
B
Oh, I love us. You know, I love a sexy top. Okay. And I've got the top in mind for you. That's your sexy top. Can I guess? Guess it's the synagogue.
- [02:05]
A
I just love. I'm really into this. Sounds random, but I'm really into getting my back out at the moment.
- [02:10]
B
Yes.
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A
I'm like, I just like the way it makes me feel. I feel sexy. I also like the combination of wearing a sexy top with, like, loose pants or parachute pants and that contrast.
- [02:20]
C
Yeah.
- [02:20]
A
But yes, the Saint Agni one that I have that is on my Instagram as well. So if you don't know what I'm talking about is I think it's like the second or third photo on my grid.
- [02:27]
B
Great.
- [02:27]
A
It's this beautiful.
- [02:28]
B
Don't you dare upload another photo and that grid now.
- [02:31]
A
I know. I won't. I won't. No. It's this white halter neck top from St Agnes and it's pretty much like backless, but I'm just constantly gravitating towards sexy tops and pants combinations at the moment. Yeah. Mads, you are, I would say, one of the OG sexy top gals. What are your wrecks for sexy tops?
- [02:48]
B
I mean, I don't want. These are expensive, right? That's a place.
- [02:51]
A
Caveat. Caveat. Caveat.
- [02:53]
B
Yeah. I'm giving it to you guys. Look, St. Agni are definitely a go to for me. I have an amazing strapless top from them that's like held by like the tiniest little buckle. But I adore that top. It's quite flowy at the front, which I love, but then sexy at the back. Wardrobe nyc. And I caveat this by saying I've never bought anything from wardrobe nyc full price. 1 could only wish. But those price tags are exorbitant. But they often go on sale and I got those tops, I think for like 180, 200. And every time I wear it, people are like, where is that top from? I think I wore one to your.
- [03:24]
A
You wore one to my recovery. The blue icy blue one. Stunning. I remember it literally clocked in.
- [03:30]
B
And Penny have started doing a few sexy back chops. So I'm not one to get my cleavage out, but I'm definitely one to get my back out.
- [03:36]
C
Yeah.
- [03:37]
A
I would say Massimo Dutti as well.
- [03:43]
B
I feel like I need to stop playing and tell you music and giving like my little ants.
- [03:46]
A
Massmo duty. Zara also have quite a few good options at the moment. So if you're looking for a mix of high, low, you've gone high. I'm going low.
- [03:53]
C
Yeah.
- [03:54]
A
Massmobility is still kind of expensive, but Zara definitely can find some cheaper options.
- [03:58]
B
I wore a top in Italy, probably the most asked outfit that I've ever worn, which really surprised me. This is like the best sexy top rack I'm gonna give. It's a high neck, black lace top that's like asymmetrical. It has just dropped on Zara Australia. Maybe we can pop it in the show notes. It is such a beautiful top. I wore it with a matching pair of like black silk pants. That's what I love. But with Jeans too. Like that undone and done Look, I love that.
- [04:24]
A
If anyone else has any great recommendations for sexy tops, reach out, share with me, Drop them in the dms I'd like to see, because I'm going to be adding to my sexy top collection. So, as we touched on at the start of this episode, we were inundated with both positive, negative, neutral responses to affiliate programs. Mads, I think it's really important up top that we explain to the listeners what are affiliate programs? Because I feel like they're everywhere at the moment on social. There's a bit of headlines in the news coming out. Do you want to give us a quick analysis of what affiliates are?
- [04:57]
B
Yeah. So affiliate platforms or affiliate links are essentially designed for brands to be able to track the conversion and the value of an influencers, I guess, promotion of the product. So in really basic terms, you post something and someone goes through to that website via that link, buys something for a hundred dollars, that influencer gets a kickback and that brand can see how many people click that link from that influencer. So it's a unique code per influencer, so to speak.
- [05:27]
A
Yeah. So it's a trackable link.
- [05:29]
C
Yeah.
- [05:29]
A
Which means that a brand can identify whether or not that influence actually converting product as well. Is it working? Isn't it working? It's a really good way to measure the effectiveness of a campaign. And it's not just influencers that use them. A lot of publications do use them as well.
- [05:45]
C
Yeah.
- [05:46]
A
Very well known in the media industry for online publications, digital publications, to be using affiliates, also streaming platforms. Apple has affiliate programs.
- [05:56]
C
Yeah.
- [05:57]
B
And I think we're hearing a lot about affiliate platforms at the moment because the reason we wanted to do this episode was because it felt like in the last two or three weeks there's been this influx of conversation about affiliate marketing. Sephora have announced that they're coming out with their own affiliate platform in the us. Conde Nas have announced the launch of their own affiliate platform. Sophia Richie Grange was announced as an investor in Shop My. I think we're seeing a lot of conversation now. It kind of feels like it's evolving outside of this niche, exploratory influencer marketing space that brands or publications are dipping their toe into. And it's now, okay, this is mainstream. We can't ignore it anymore.
- [06:34]
A
Dare I say the future of the creator economy. I feel affiliates are going to be double down.
- [06:40]
B
Say we just sit down.
- [06:43]
A
No, there was a time, honestly two, three years ago, I remember when some of the major affiliate partners like LTK is Probably the most well known, I would say, in the Australian landscape. But there are others globally as you touched on. Also Shop Myers, a very big one in the us. But I remember when LTK cracked into the Australian market a while ago now, but I only really became, honestly, Mads, I became familiar with the platform because of you. I. I'm going to call it and say I feel like we are really well placed and informed to be having this conversation. And at the end of the day when we're sitting behind the mic, the goal is to be objective. But at the end of the day there are also some subjective opinions that we have being users of the platform and also being on the platform. And we're going to come at it from both perspectives and make sure that this is a really well rounded episode. So you guys know that we're considering all aspects of what this means for you guys.
- [07:31]
B
I also feel that personally I get to come at a double layer of what it means for brand, because I, I have sat on brand marketing, consumer brand marketing side, for the better part of 10 years and I think conversion counts. And so I also come at the lens of that not just as a user of the platform, but what affiliate in general does for brands and means for brands.
- [07:52]
A
Absolutely. And as I said, we're going to focus predominantly on ltk given in the Australian landscape. That's the most well known and used app. Yeah, I want to talk about LTK because there are some really impressive stats. So it's actually the largest influencer marketing platform with tens of millions of monthly consumers. They have over 350,000 content creators and over 8,000 retailers and 1 million brands. So in terms of numbers, this is a serious powerhouse.
- [08:19]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [08:19]
A
In the affiliate space, it also powers over 5 billion in annual merchandise sales. So we're pushing a lot of product through ltk.
- [08:28]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [08:29]
A
And a lot of people are using it. So even though in Australia it's still, I would say, in the progressive phase.
- [08:36]
C
Oh yeah.
- [08:37]
A
I don't even know if that's a technical term I would call it, but I wouldn't say it's super established in Australia. I asked my friends how many of you use ltk? And more than half of them said they don't. So it's still got work to do in terms of it being part of everyone's shopping habits in the US and in Europe it's definitely got more of a stronghold.
- [08:54]
B
Oh, in the US it's a completely different ballgame. It's not uncommon that creators don't even upload on their socials anymore. They're uploading directly to LTK the way that we would open Instagram or TikTok without a second thought. Their behavior in the US is very much just opening LTK to scroll, be inspired to shop and do all of those things. It's second nature to them here. I think you're very right. We are on the early part of the curve.
- [09:20]
C
Yeah.
- [09:20]
A
So I want to kick off this episode. I really do want to understand Bads as a content creator and we did touch on this before the episode. I don't know about squinting at me, but we're not full time influencers. We work full time. You're self employed. I work full time for Shameless Media. We do content creation on the side. Bit of a passion project. There is also a passive revenue stream for us to make money and LTK forms part of that strategy. Can you tell the listeners what your experience with LTK is?
- [09:51]
B
Totally. I want to start. I'll take you back to a time. If I go back to. I want to say 2022, maybe 2021. I think 2022. Let's go with 22. I uploaded a dress on Christmas Day. I honestly think I maybe had 2,000 Instagram followers at this point. So you can just assume that's friends, friends of friends and family. I uploaded a dress that I was wearing on Christmas Day and everyone was like, oh my God, love the dress now. I indulged in too many bubbles on that Christmas Day. Didn't reply to anyone because I was ob having way too good of a time at my friend Miranda's family Christmas. Shout out to you, Miranda. Saving me that year. But the next day I got an email from Lee Matthews that they were having a Boxing Day sale. The dress was like 70% off. So I took a screenshot of the dress, shared it on my Instagram stories and was like, girly pops, 70% off. Run, don't walk, drop the link. Didn't even know you could put a link on your Instagram story, but discovered it that day. I know, Boomer. Anyway, I had so many people replying, being like, oh my God, what else is on sale? Like, what else are you loving? So then I uploaded like 10 other things that I liked on Boxing Day. Sales that were like deeply discounted, essentially. A couple months went on. I got back into the office after the Christmas break. Everyone was like, I was obsessed with that. And so I started this Instagram series called Sales Fairy. Started a story on Canva and this was like, literally, like, I was just like going through a really shitty breakup and thought that was like a really fun way to like spend my evenings instead of crying in my bed.
- [11:19]
A
Love.
- [11:19]
B
So one of my girlfriends who was a creator and had hundreds of thousands of followers was like, you know that there's like an affiliate platform you can use where you get a kickback when you're sharing it. And what very quickly transpired was that 2,000 followers slowly but surely was getting bigger because I think my friends were telling their friends and their friends were telling their friends. And so I joined LTK at a time I wouldn't have defined myself as a creator, as Ray alluded to. I'm squirming even at the thought of saying that now. Essentially I joined LTK probably before I had a platform to really warrant it, but slowly but surely started making money from it because I was embedding LTK links, which meant that when someone was clicking on my Instagram stories, I would make a percentage of revenue. Now, I'm not talking life changing.
- [12:10]
A
Yeah, let's clarify that.
- [12:11]
B
Let's really define this. Ray and I talk about this a lot. One common misconception that I think is out there a lot is that people are making life changing money. And that might be so in the us, but it's certainly not for me anyway.
- [12:24]
A
No, definitely not for me in Australia.
- [12:26]
B
Because the percentage that you make varies via retailer. So I know you mentioned LTK have a million brands on there. Some of those brands, like cosmetic brands, have higher commission versus fashion brand could have anywhere from 2 to 10%.
- [12:39]
C
Yeah.
- [12:39]
A
So that very commission also makes it hard for you. Honestly, it really does depend on the product and the retailer how much your potential earnings are. But I. My experience is it really depends on the work that you put in as an individual. Yeah, I'm going to be really straight. I do not have time to do LTK links for every single product that I am wearing. I also don't do it for every single product. So I do post stories of my outfits. Some of them I do link on ltk, others I don't. Yeah, I will always try and tag the brands.
- [13:09]
C
Yeah.
- [13:09]
A
And it was really interesting. We'll get into the DM shortly. What the sentiment is around how influencers show up with LTK or you know, just general gatekeeping as well. That felt. Felt like it was a bit of a sensitive point. As an LTK creator and user, I find it's most helpful when I'm wearing something that's a more high street brand. So if I'm wearing something In Australia, the context being Dish Henny, something that's readily available perhaps on a more well known retailer such as the Iconic or David Jones. Generally, if it's from one of those sites then I'll link it on ltk, but for more of my eclectic outfits, one those retailers or those brands usually aren't available on ltk, which I do think is a really important clarification. Yeah, not every brand is available which means you can't link every product or.
- [13:56]
B
Brand or retailer is my personal criticism of the platform. And I know as you said we'll get into some of the feedback, but authenticity came up a lot for me in the DMs. Like it doesn't feel authentic or not everything's linked and then that feels shady or that doesn't feel like it's authentic to what they're wearing if they're doing something like it, but not it. I feel like that barrier of inauthenticity could be removed if you could link things that you weren't necessarily making commission on but could still be supporting retailers. But also from a business side. I understand why LTK are not allowing those brands on there because then you're benefiting off the platform without having to pay to be on there.
- [14:34]
A
Next we're going to dive into what our followers on our personal IGS think about influencers using these type of platforms. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. Guys, let's take it back to 2018, the year that gave us good hair. It's hard to believe it's been seven years since Dyson released the Airwrap, an icon that revolutionized hairstyling and how we get ready. For the first time ever, thanks to the Kiwanda technology, we were able to dry and curl our hair without heat damage. But the Airwrap story doesn't end there as if it was even possible. Dyson have improved on their cult favorite hair tool, releasing the next evolution of the airwrap. With two times the air pressure, it now offers more power, faster drying and even better curling. And for the straight hair girlies, you can expect straighter styles which is something new for the Airwrap. This baby is Dyson's most versatile and powerful Airwrap multi styler yet. You can learn more about it and check out the chic Jasper plum ceramic pink and exclusive amber silk colorways@dyson.com au A huge thank you to Dyson for making this episode of stylish possible.
- [15:44]
B
So as Ray mentioned, we had a lot of DMS like honestly this was overwhelming. We thought it would be fun to read just some snippets of what we received and there were so many. So if we don't get to yours, please don't be offended. Some of mine were hilarious. The first one was oh my God, Influencers profit off ltk. I was today years old when I learned this.
- [16:05]
A
I had a few of those too.
- [16:06]
B
Another was I like sussing the details of influencers outfits via LTK links and feel a kickback is fair. But then in total contrast I had people saying personally I don't love it as it detracts from authenticity of the recommendations.
- [16:20]
A
Yeah, similar vein to what I received as well. I had someone come to me and say I like knowing they're rewarded when they're showing me cute stuff. It's part of their job. Also had don't care. I don't mind clicking through to their LTK if they are providing inspo. This one is quite nonchalant and I do like it. LTK is okay, okay, I hate underscore's gifting or experiences, but that's unrelated. So that's an interesting point I wanted to make as well. People were kind of grouping that with this, not disclosing that things are gifted as well. And we'll get into a bit of that later. But I did have a couple of meaty ones that people went to the effort to actual do send me a dm, not just a quick reply in the question box that we put up that I wanted to read that show you two different ends of the spectrum. So this follower wrote in I find LTK icky influences and businesses even if they're one person brand collab sponsored posts are better in my opinion because it seems more upfront and transparent. LTK encourages a cycle of repetitive consumption both from the influencer and their audience. It also encourages cookie cutter dressing, not skillful styling. I way prefer to see influencers who have slowly curated vintage thrifted wardrobes or repeated outfits. There are some epic creators in this space, so that's leaning more towards the anti affiliate side in pro positive affiliate territory. As someone who has a small following and shares links along with using the platform, as a consumer I am for it. I love being able to find pieces all in the one spot instead of searching through comments if someone doesn't tag the brand. I also think if someone is putting the time into curate product collections, let them have their very small commission from your purchase. It literally makes no difference in your end except showing you Support the creator.
- [18:01]
B
1000% also, like sales Fairy essentially became free personal shopping.
- [18:06]
A
Absolutely.
- [18:08]
B
And like, I've paused it at the moment, but people were very demanding. Like I had to turn off Instagram notifications because people were like that sold out in my size. Where else is it available? And I was like trying to help people. But essentially I started integrating LTK because I was like, this is taking hours of my time. When someone's curating something, they're doing that for free.
- [18:31]
C
Yeah, you.
- [18:32]
A
I can see it from both sides. I definitely lean more towards being pro affiliate in the sense that at the end of the day, people have agency and control. It's a choice if you want to support that platform in saying that if it hasn't been disclosed to you or you're not actually aware that LTK has an is an affiliate platform. Yeah, there's a bit of an education gap there. I feel like we need to work on. Or maybe in the instance of an influencer, maybe they're not necessarily being transparent about it. I've assumed that a lot of people know that LTK is an affiliate program.
- [19:01]
B
Yeah, I've made that assumption too.
- [19:02]
A
And I think that's a fair assumption.
- [19:04]
B
I think I would agree with that.
- [19:06]
A
Coming back to the person who is quite anti LTK and affiliate programs, I do agree that it does encourage mass consumption and generic styling. In some ways. It's pushing out a lot of product constantly. And again, I'm going to center myself in this because I think that's the most fair and reasonable thing to do. I don't post on LTK all the time. I don't post every outfit I wear on social media with the intention of making money off it. Yeah, sometimes I just want to post my outfit because I want to share my personal style. I want to show off the eclectic ness. And that outfit might not be available on ltk or it might be. I will pick and choose when I want to use the platform in a way that feels authentic to me.
- [19:47]
C
Yeah.
- [19:48]
A
But I can see how people fall into this trap of only using LTK to make money or to push product and to push that out to the mass. And I do take a little bit.
- [19:58]
B
Of an issue with that ultimately as well. Where I land is that it's because that's not your full time job. I feel we'd be having a very different conversation if we were two full time content creators. Because if that is one of your most solid streams of revenue, then yes, I think you are putting in the hours and the work hoping that by sharing your outfit you are In a way, converting and I. I guess my issue with the conversation around the mass consumption piece is how is this any different to paid influencer activity to paid content that brands have created? Being pushed to editorial and magazines like, we live in a world that encourages consumption. This is just another form of it. Ultimately, I feel that the anger is being directed at the influencer when really this is a much larger ecosystem.
- [20:47]
A
Definitely a bigger ecosystem. I do think everyone plays a role in contributing and being conscious of, like how you're contributing to that system. But I do agree with you. There is a lot of emphasis on the influencer being the one who's in the wrong and that came through a lot in the DMs.
- [21:01]
C
Yeah.
- [21:01]
B
So we've spoken a lot about, I guess, consumer point of view, influencer point of view, and as I mentioned, working consumer brand side. I think brand point of view is really important. I had one great sound bite that came through from a listener. She said, I think it helps showcase they're making an impact and reaching their audience. They've got metrics to back up financial investment they're requesting from brandside. A lot of creators name a price for content based on reach and not necessarily results for a brand. It's conversion and reaching an engaged, invested audience that matters. This is a very important point.
- [21:36]
A
Super powerful.
- [21:37]
B
I want to make. The Australia influencer economy is very small. Like in comparison to the US Just by nature of our population, we are a much smaller creator environment. But just naming a price like it's wild to me that for so long Australia has operated on creators. Going a real. Is this much a TikTok? Is this much an Instagram story? Is this much without any metrics of going.
- [22:00]
A
There's no like industry standard or metrics.
- [22:02]
B
Totally. And reaches one thing, but everyone knows reach does not mean conversion. And by conversion I mean you watch something, you interact with it and you go and click through to read about it or you click through to shop it. Like affiliate programs enable brands to go, bingo. That influencer converts for us. Or that influencer achieves reach but doesn't convert. And depending on your campaign, you can be trying to achieve one or both of those things. So I thought that was an interesting take. Just to give you the perspective of brand.
- [22:35]
A
Absolutely. And very fair and reasonable and good context for people who aren't in the marketing industry and maybe don't have that perspective. What about influencers making money from items they've been gifted? This was a really divided one on the stylish ig. We actually asked you guys, what you think about influencers making money from items they're being gifted. We had, on one side, I don't have a problem with it, it's their job. And then on the other, I think it's icky and I don't trust it. I really do think this shows how divided people are on this topic. What's your take?
- [23:06]
B
Yeah, I've got. I've got an interesting take. It's hard. It's hard not to be biased in this because as I said, when I started using affiliate platforms, I had a really small audience. And for whatever reason, now that's a bigger one thanks to, I don't know, like, your profile.
- [23:22]
A
Very stylish, very stylish. Your own personal brand. Like your presence on social media has grown. So by design, your influence has. Yeah, squirming.
- [23:32]
B
I'm squirming so much because I really still. I still don't define myself as either of those things.
- [23:36]
A
My words, not yours.
- [23:37]
B
Let's take Henny and Van Roy as a perfect example. I've been a lover of those brands, probably. I've been shopping Henny since Henny was stocked on Connection before they had their own site like girl. Girl's an og. Then Van Roy as well, you know, God, I've like, shopped their jumpers, their sweats, you name it. Now, interestingly, I've shared those pieces on LTK since the beginning of Dawn. Now those two brands have access to that data through those platforms. They've obviously seen that that converts for my audience and now they gift me pieces. I still shop both of those brands. I want to be really crystal clear on that. I would spend more with Henny than what I'm gifted with Henny. And also, what I know about my audience thanks to the LTK backend is the amount of money they're comfortable spending and the price points of Henny and Venroy lend themselves to that. I share things that I have bought and I share things that I have been gifted. I would only ever, and I cannot emphasize this enough, only ever share something that I have been able to pick, that I have free agency to choose and style how I want. I'm not sharing it because it's being gifted to me and I sure as shit won't post it if someone sends me something without asking me what I want or what I've been allowed to choose.
- [24:54]
A
No, it's curated and it's tailored not just to your own personal style, but also your audience. And it does frustrate me sometimes when People refuse to acknowledge that as a creator, there are at times things where you will be gifted something. I think we're misdirecting the frustration of it being gifted. We're misunderstanding that. That is just part of the process.
- [25:14]
C
Yeah.
- [25:15]
A
What I agree is frustrating is when people do not disclose it.
- [25:19]
B
Agree.
- [25:19]
A
So a caveat a lot of people had was that they didn't mind as long as it was clear the item was gifted. People also said it depends on the influencer. Are they constantly posting? Does the item seem genuinely aligned to them? Which is probably what I. I sit on that side as well. That's where I would always give people the benefit of doubt. That caveat feels really fair to me.
- [25:41]
B
And I think that's consistent with a lot of the results we had in our dms as well as we've seen right here in the Stylish survey.
- [25:48]
A
If you're wearing things and fronting the camera and saying, oh, my God, I'm obsessed with this outfit. I bought this top from Van Roy and you didn't buy that top. That is genuinely misleading.
- [25:59]
B
Totally. And it's funny as well, because I think people go, oh, you're gifted. Everything from Henny. And I had someone message me being like, oh, you didn't even buy the Valentina jeans and you were raving about them. No, no, girl. I bought the Valentina jeans and I bought the Giselle jeans. And then when I got my sixth pair in a different color, they were gifted.
- [26:15]
C
Yeah.
- [26:16]
B
So for me, I'm like, no. When I say I buy, I buy. And so it is funny to me, though, because where I think the frustration comes from is if it's gifted and you're posting it for the sake of. Posting it for fashion. I've never accepted anything from a brand I haven't personally shopped for previously. And where I think the frustration comes from is that creators are just posting outfits that they've been gifted, going, well, I can make money off this. They haven't picked it. It's not a brand they shop. It's not aligned to their usual style. I think that's where people like this feels disingenuous, icky and misleading.
- [26:47]
A
Yeah, I completely agree. I also feel it's. I'm someone who's in the industry, and perhaps I need to look at this from a perspective of someone who's not, because to me, it's quite obvious. Like, I can tell when someone's moved away from their. We almost called it like a content promise, but moved away from their personal style to collaborate with the brand and it feels disingenuous. But I do think the average person does take that for face value and it does. The ownership does fall on the influencer or the creator in that scenario to work with brands that are authentic to you and your audience. So if you're deliberately trying to mislead your community because yeah, all four getting the bag. But if you're moving away from your content promise or moving away from your personal brand, it feels a bit, it.
- [27:31]
B
Does feel a bit icky to me, 1000%. And that's where I think it's for the creator to only accept gifting or partnerships with brands that generally align.
- [27:40]
A
Agreed.
- [27:41]
B
It's also worth noting for a brand the power these metrics deliver. And I want to touch on that because if you are gifting something versus a paid partnership, so let's say the average like wholesale value is usually a 50, 55% discount. Gifting someone a $200 pair of jeans that cost you a hundred dollars and seeing how many they can sell is a much better way to decide whether you're going to do a paid partnership with someone then giving them 2, $3,000, which for a creator with 50, 60,000 followers would be a reasonable going rate. That's like the best spend you will ever incur as a business. To see what the conversion is like and their pool power.
- [28:21]
A
From a micro creators perspective, the benefit of being on LTK is also building a case study for you to go to brands who you genuinely love and prove that you can convert. They offer you really tangible insights around how certain products perform, how many people have actually purchased that product, the average conversion, that data is so powerful and I really love that. There are a lot of micro creators out there or people who are just starting to, you know, push into influencer territory, can use that to then go to the brands that they love, that they're passionate about, that they're wearing and prove proof of purchase and prove that if they spend money with them, it's worthwhile. My favorite partnerships are when I can see that a creator has been actively wearing a brand for a really long time, spending their hard earned money and then they get on that gifting list or then they get that paid partnership. It fills my cup with joy because I'm like, yes, girl, yes, you manifested.
- [29:20]
B
That you put it out in the world. That's the thing too, I guess in the current creator landscape there is no barrier to entry, there is no barrier to virality. Like you can literally upload a video in your car talking about your Favorite chicken tenders and next thing you know you've got a platform of 30,000 followers. Or you can be talking about your favorite things to wear as a guest to a wedding and you've got a million views and suddenly that brand sending you another dress or the bag that you were carrying is being sent to you in another color. Like, I do think it's moving at such pace and there's such opportunity that I'm still not sure why we're so angry at the creator economy when it's never been more open to all.
- [30:03]
A
It's never been more open to all. But it's also, it's always been around. There's always been an iteration of influence and curation. It's just that it's very, very social led, which makes it more accessible. And I think people are feeling inundated with ads at the moment. And there is this sentiment is like another ad.
- [30:20]
C
Yeah.
- [30:20]
A
But again, this is the evolution of the industry. And like I said at the top of this episode, it's not going anywhere. It's honestly just going to become more and more and more it is on us as individuals to be more discerning about what is this? Is it an ad? Is this trying to influence me? Take agency, take control over what we're. Then feel and question yourself, like, do I actually need this product?
- [30:41]
C
Yeah.
- [30:42]
A
And this comes to being a conscious shopper as well and really criticizing and critiquing what you need versus what you actually want. And there are a lot of great creators out there who give you tools. Like Alison Bornstein was spoken about a lot. She's a very considered shopper. She's a stylist. She has a really, really great hack. It's on her story set and it's basically, I think it's the seven questions you have to ask yourself before you make a purchase. Yeah, let's take control. Let's have agency over those decision making processes because I'm telling you, it's going to just become more and more totally. So let's take accountability. Next we're going to talk about whether influencers are gatekeeping when they refuse to share where they get a product from. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. Friends, we've come a long way from styling our hair with the household iron. It's been seven years since Dyson released their cult favorite hair tool, the airwrap, which expertly dried and curled our hair without heat damage. And now the next evolution has arrived, offering more power, faster drying, better curling and straighter styles, all while protecting your hair health. This is going to revolutionize our getting ready routine yet again. Learn more about the new Dyson Airwrap Coanda two times multistyler@dyson.com and a huge thank you to Dyson for making this episode of Stylish possible.
- [32:04]
B
So so gatekeeping.
- [32:07]
A
My favourite word at the moment should.
- [32:08]
B
Have been your word of the week.
- [32:09]
A
Should have.
- [32:10]
B
We asked our listeners whether or not they think creators are gatekeeping if they refuse to share where they purchased an item from. And 76% of you said yes and 24% of you said no. Ri what's your hot take, guys?
- [32:26]
A
I was shocked, but it was so high. I thought this was gonna be more divided.
- [32:31]
B
I agree.
- [32:32]
A
I was really surprised by maybe this is a me thing. I just always assume that maybe it's just not available. Or you know what? Personal style is super personal. There are things that you might not want to share with everyone and that is okay. I don't know why we have this expectation that everything has to be shared.
- [32:54]
B
Well, it was interesting because Zara and Naima from the Shameless Media Office was saying that they are constantly hounded to share where they buy their things from.
- [33:04]
A
Not even to share, but to create an LTK as well. Now I'm going to play a clip from Zara because I feel like this will just set up this segment really well.
- [33:12]
C
Let's go.
- [33:13]
D
I can't share the creative process sometimes of getting dressed without people expecting that I'm selling them something. And so when I post my outfits online, I'll try as much as I can to like tag where stuff is from or whatever because I know it's helpful for people. But I then think people come to me and say, like, where exactly is it from? Or what item code is it? And what size are you wearing? And so because I'm not making money off it, and it's not that everything has to be about money, but because I'm not making money off it, I don't really feel like I have the time to constantly go back and forth. And so I end up sharing a little bit less of the creative process of getting dressed because it's very hard to do that without entering into that exchange. And I think the other part of gatekeeping that we often forget about is sometimes I won't tag, not because I'm trying to gatekeep, but because I don't want people to think that everything's always gifted because it's not. I pay for most of my stuff and I Fear that sometimes when you tag something people think that you're not paying for it.
- [34:07]
B
Very interesting. Take love everything Zara said, double down on all of it. I feel exactly the same. If I tag a brand, I feel that people think it's gifted to me when really, as I said, this platform has grown kind of unintentionally. It's all been a very happy accident. I also, this is not my priority to share the content is a fun creative outlet to get back on and reply to people at Mass is quite overwhelming. And I'm not here to be like, oh, when people watch or interact, it's hard work. It's not that at all. It's just when I'm like reading my emails at 7am on a dog walk. That's a far more productive use of my time than replying. And I do feel like people get frustrated if they're not because of the speed and rapidness of social media. People get frustrated if they're not getting a reply in two to three hours. The reality is someone like Zara is running a media. I'm going to call it a conglomerate because I think that sounds great and fancy and you know, but really she's running a small team and she's got a business she's not on like tick tock at lunchtime being like top is this shoes of this? Here's a link to this. That's not the best use of her time.
- [35:19]
A
No. And someone like Zara as well, who does put a lot of effort into curating her personal style. And Naima in the office is the same, very, very eclectic, very unique sense of style. And the reality of it is as well, when people are asking them, you know, create an ltk, curate this edit so I can shop it in real time or even tag the brands, a lot of the time they're not available. It might be they've been thrifted or perhaps it's a brand that's not even available on ltk. I do think we have to give people the benefit of the doubt, particularly in this instance when I'm talking about Naima and Zara, because I know they're not gatekeeping. It's just that it might not be readily available for you to shop. It might be vintage, it might be thrifted, it might be a brand that is no longer available. There are all these other reasons why something might not be linked. It's also funny because anecdotally we're in the office and they were saying, and again, this is just an example of how varied opinions are. Naima was saying, oh, like, people always saying, like, add more to your otk, Add more. She's like, I can't because the product is not on ltk.
- [36:20]
C
Yeah.
- [36:21]
A
So that's another thing as well. Not, yes, there are a lot of brands that are on ltk. And yes, there are a lot of products that are available top end of the episode. So many amazing stats. But there are still a lot that aren't totally. You know, not everything can be curated into one place.
- [36:35]
C
Yeah.
- [36:36]
B
I think another consideration is, like, for me, I'm much like Zara. I buy majority of the things that I wear. I'm also really conscious that, you know, everyone has, like, a different financial position.
- [36:46]
C
Yeah.
- [36:46]
B
And, you know, if I can't link it or I can, I'm also like, it takes time. I personally want to make a continual effort to try and provide things at different price points so that people can access things that might be similar at, you know, something that might be more lux or, you know, a little bit more accessible. Like, I'm trying to do both of those things because it feels like girlhood. I'm like, it's just info sharing. If those sunnies were $400, I want to find a pair that are $40.
- [37:15]
C
Yeah.
- [37:15]
B
Or if that tops $40. But it's a dupe of a $400 top. I want to include the $400 top. Like, it goes both ways, but that takes time and effort and energy. I do feel that's also a consideration.
- [37:28]
A
Definitely. It was interesting, the gatekeeping piece for me, because I didn't get a single DM about this.
- [37:33]
B
I did.
- [37:34]
A
I didn't get any. Most of mine were really centered around, honestly, consumerism as a whole, which I've already touched on. And again, I agree, as a creator on the platform, I am very conscious of how often I'm pushing out LTK links. I do try and go quality over quantity.
- [37:50]
C
Yeah.
- [37:50]
A
But that's me as a creator. That's my choice. That's how I shop in real life as well. So I want to make sure I'm accurately reflecting my own shopping habits. I'm not buying things every week. So, yeah, the gatekeeping piece, you had quite a lot. Mads, do you want to share some of the examples that you had?
- [38:04]
B
Yeah. Some of the quotes I had was like, whilst it's a form of gatekeeping, at least the gateway is a few seconds of time versus a costly subscription. Creators who take the time to make the content around fashion should be rewarded by labels who benefit from their ability to drive spending. Others were like I don't like it when influencers gatekeep on their Instagram and use the whole comment slash, shop slash outfit generic clickbait.
- [38:27]
A
Okay, yeah, see I, I kind of agree with that.
- [38:30]
B
I agree with this. So there is a feature through platforms like LTK where you can set up automatic DMs DM. So if you're like, you know, comment outfit or comment love to receive the link. I think people are like okay. Bot like okay.
- [38:46]
A
I personally take issue with this. I, I do eye roll when I see this and I totally understand the mechanics of it and the why as a consumer of when I'm looking at something oh, I like that. And it says comment love heart.
- [39:00]
B
You're like I'm out, I'm out.
- [39:02]
A
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And can I add to this?
- [39:05]
C
Yeah.
- [39:06]
A
I always try and do this if someone asks me where something is from. I will never just say shop on my ltk. I will say X brand. It is also available on my LTK or and like give them the choice in the agency to say do you want to shop directly to the brand or do you want to use my LTK affiliate 99% of the time. I mean I don't everyone's going to go back to my comments about you did this once but 99% of the time I really, really do always try and disclose the brand up top as well. Even if I'm sharing something on my stories being like one of others coat always.
- [39:40]
B
Yeah, I love that coat. That's so recoded one of others coat.
- [39:43]
A
Here's the LTK link. I also shared the LTK link because it was 30% off on the iconic like go girls.
- [39:51]
B
Yeah, I should have bought it when it was there. But we spend too much time together to be having too much of the same. I, I agree with you but also I think if you're going to the trouble of going and getting the link to the exact item girl get that bread.
- [40:02]
A
Agreed.
- [40:02]
B
I'm happy for someone to make 8% of $100 top like they're making $8. It's neither here nor there for me.
- [40:09]
A
No.
- [40:10]
B
And if you think that the brand's suffering by paying that person 8% I want to preface this by saying no brand is signing up to an affiliate platform unless they can afford it.
- [40:18]
A
Correct.
- [40:19]
B
I'm really going to like I'm doubling down on that. No brand is signing up to an affiliate platform if they cannot afford it. They want the metrics. They want the creators community, they want the data. So for me I'm like, I don't think it's gatekeeping but I. I think it's. It's weird when it's body and it's gatekeeping. If they're never applying. You have but devil's advocate for us. I don't know how I'd feel if I had 200,000 followers and the plethora.
- [40:49]
A
Oh yeah, no, I'm talking about from the perspective of like I don't have that many followers.
- [40:53]
C
Yeah.
- [40:54]
A
It isn't unreasonable for me to reply to every single person or reply to one comment and just pin that comment. But I also want to give people the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, some creators have more followers, some also might just not have seen it.
- [41:06]
C
Yeah.
- [41:07]
A
Give people a decent window and time frame. Can I make one more point before we round out? Because this did come up a lot in my DMs and we haven't spoken about it. The functionality of the two to three clicks through. A lot of people did comment that they found when things linked in ltk, it takes a little bit longer to get to a product. Dare I say that's just. That's not the. Again the creators issue. I feel like that's a platform consideration and perhaps.
- [41:32]
C
Yeah.
- [41:33]
A
Not something I could really add a lot of.
- [41:36]
B
Like it's clunky or I don't need another app on my phone.
- [41:38]
A
Yes. Which I get as well. Like again, coming back to the point around where overexposed to content and affiliates on a lot of platforms. I totally understand.
- [41:46]
C
Yeah.
- [41:46]
A
Not wanting to have to click through another thing. But again, you don't have to. It's all good.
- [41:50]
B
You don't have to. Hilariously as well, I just like started uploading outfits just on Stories without any links because I was like, people must like just be sick of having a click through same. No, no. People like where's it from though? Where's the link? And I'm like. Honestly, I just think people are so used to being like, don't make me DM you. Like, that's another barrier to have to dam. Just embedded in Stories. I think Stories is the least barrier to entry. It's easy. You're in there, it takes you straight through. You don't need to go via the app. I think people want the direct link to the product, not necessarily the whole outfit sometimes.
- [42:20]
A
I agree. Also I feel my community on ltk, I've now got it to a point where I can actually only post on LTK and still make commission off it because habitually they're now there. So if you're not an active user on LTK and you're not in app.
- [42:35]
C
Yeah.
- [42:36]
A
You're not getting those push notifications that I posted something on ltk. So, yeah, I'm really trying to pull back on how much I'm pushing on the other apps, whether that be TikTok and story set, and instead nurture the community I have on ltk. We're already there, they're shopping. And LTK tells you what percentage of your earnings are coming from in app, and mine is around 70%.
- [42:55]
C
Yeah.
- [42:55]
A
So I'm not really having to push out on other channels unless I'm trying to acquire new buyers.
- [43:00]
C
Yeah.
- [43:01]
B
See, Instagram Stories is where it started for me and I'll always, like, remain loyal there.
- [43:05]
C
Yeah.
- [43:05]
A
I also just love posting an outfit mirror selfie on the Stories. Tag or not, babes, you're gonna see me in the mirror.
- [43:11]
B
You'll my apartments messy because I won't be uploading a photo of my outfit.
- [43:15]
A
Mine's always the Shameless Media office. All right, guys, and that's all for this new fortnightly episode of Stylish, focusing on brand and marketing. This has been one of my favorite, and I say it every week, but I loved how much the community contributed to this conversation. So many amazing DMS from you guys. Thank you so much.
- [43:32]
B
I also love this because I think brand side. I'm having this conversation with anyone I'm talking to in brand, whether it be a client or friends. In marketing. The power of this is astronomical. It's not going anywhere. So love it or loathe it, it's here to stay.
- [43:48]
A
We've had a good conversation about it. And remember, guys, you can drop us an email anytime at style-ishameless media.com or you can sign into our DMS over at Stylish Pod. And we can't forget to thank the Shameless Media team ahead of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emmerburg. We'll be back with you in a fortnight. See you then, guys.
- [44:10]
B
Two outfits shared between now and then.
- [44:21]
A
This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri Land. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.
- [44:27]
E
Hello, everyone. It's Jamie Laing here now. Can I just grab you for just one second to tell you about my podcast? Great company. It's out every Wednesday, and I'm joined by someone I really admire for a great conversation. It's a space to share, to be inspired, to learn, to be moved, even laugh. There are so many things that I get from it, and there are no gimmicks. It's just me, great guests, and you. You are the most important person. You, the listener. Listen and subscribe to Great Company with me, Jamie Lang. New episodes out every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts.