Is hair suddenly all over your feed, too?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Style-ish Episode - "Is hair suddenly all over your feed, too?"

Release Date: May 27, 2025 | Host: Shameless Media | Description: Style-ish is the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty.

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1. Beauty Routines on Long Haul Flights

The episode opens with a discussion on the rising trend of performing beauty routines during long-haul flights. Joanna Fleming introduces the topic by referencing an article from nine.com, highlighting that influencers and travelers alike are incorporating skincare and makeup routines while airborne.

Key Points:

• Cabin Environment Impact: Dr. Sapna Palip, a dermatologist, emphasizes that low humidity and recycled air on planes can dehydrate and fragilize the skin's outer layer, the stratum corneum (06:56).
• Skincare Practices: Hosts share their personal routines to combat the dry cabin air. Madison Sullivan Thorpe describes her regimen, which includes pre-flight skin prep, facial mists like Tower 28 SOS spray or rose water, and hydrating masks such as Mecca Cosmetica’s hydration mask (06:56).
• Makeup on Flights: Madison admits to carrying a full makeup bag on flights, often leading to amusing interactions with fellow passengers (08:15).
• Annika’s Comprehensive Routine: Annika Joshi Smith reveals her extensive skincare routine, including spritzes, thick masks, and even an LED face mask to manage anxiety and maintain skin health during flights (08:38).
• Host Insights: Joanna and Madison advocate for maintaining skincare routines on flights, arguing that proper moisturizing and hydration prevent post-flight skin issues like dryness and breakouts (10:05).

Notable Quotes:

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe: "I am not someone you want to sit next to on the plane if you don't want to see a beauty routine." (06:56)
• Annika Joshi Smith: "I even get James onto it when he travels with me. I've got some funny content of him literally like lapping it all up." (08:56)

2. Controversial White Glow Teeth Whitening Campaign

The hosts delve into a significant backlash against Australian teeth whitening brand White Glow for their recent advertising campaign featuring the slogan "Make the white choice."

Key Points:

• Campaign Overview: White Glow launched an ad campaign with the slogan "Make the white choice," displayed prominently on trams and buses in Sydney and Melbourne.
• Public Backlash: The campaign was criticized for being tone-deaf and racially insensitive. Critics argue that the phrase echoes historical messaging that positions whiteness as superior, invoking associations with white supremacist rhetoric (14:18).
• White Glow’s Response: Director Jeffrey Wong attempted to defend the campaign by stating it was a playful wordplay on "make the right choice" to emphasize product effectiveness. However, the response was widely viewed as inadequate and dismissive (15:03).
• Hosts' Reactions:
  • Madison emphasizes the importance of intent versus impact, stating, "It actually doesn't matter what the intent is. Impact is what it has been."
  • Annika shares her personal experiences with racism, highlighting the emotional toll of such insensitive campaigns (15:17).
• Approval Process Critique: The hosts question how such a slogan passed through multiple approval layers, including creative agencies, legal teams, and media agencies, suggesting a failure in oversight and cultural sensitivity (17:01).

Notable Quotes:

• Kriti Gupta (clip): "The phrase make the white choice echoes a long history of messaging where whiteness was positioned as superior." (14:18)
• Annika Joshi Smith: "No, that is so culturally insensitive. This is loaded language." (15:32)

3. Phoebe Gates’ AI-Powered Shopping App: FIA

Transitioning to a lighter topic, the podcast highlights the launch of FIA, an AI-powered shopping app developed by Phoebe Gates, daughter of tech mogul Bill Gates, in partnership with Sophia Kiani.

Key Points:

• App Functionality: FIA aims to streamline online shopping by comparing prices of clothing, shoes, and accessories across various websites and listings. It’s available on iOS and as a Google Chrome browser extension (20:27).
• Unique Features: The app features a "Should I buy this?" button that, when clicked, scans the web for both new and used listings, providing insights into whether the current price is high, low, or typical.
• Sustainability Focus: FIA encourages sustainable shopping by including secondhand options from platforms like Vestiaire, Thredup, StockX, Poshmark, and eBay, alongside offering potential resale value information (21:28).
• Phoebe’s Transparency: During a recent interview on the Call Her Daddy episode, Phoebe openly discussed her privileges and the effort required to establish her brand, aiming to balance her inherent advantages with personal hard work (22:18).
• User Reception: Hosts express enthusiasm for the app’s potential to save time and money, noting its alignment with current consumer trends towards informed and sustainable shopping (23:17).

Notable Quotes:

• Joanna Fleming: "I find it really refreshing just to see her go, fuck, yeah, I had a lot of privilege." (23:39)
• Madison Sullivan Thorpe: "I think this is a genius app." (26:01)

4. Joanna Fleming’s Algorithm: Hair Trends and Brands

In the segment titled "Welcome to My Algorithm," Joanna Fleming shares insights into the current surge of hair-related content dominating social media feeds.

Key Points:

• Current Trends: The algorithm reveals an influx of content related to hair growth brands, styling products, and hair health routines. Brands like Bouff, Kerastase, K18, and Lola V are prominently featured.
• Brand Launches and Campaigns:
  • Bouf: Founded by Rachel Wild of TBH Skincare in partnership with Indie Clinton. The launch faced criticism due to promotional content featuring wigs and extensions, which contradicts the brand's hair growth focus (29:55).
  • Kerastase’s Glaze Drops: Significant investment in influencer marketing, with major Australian influencers like Riley Hempson and Jackie Alexander promoting the product in New York (30:25).
  • K18 Innovations: Expanding from hair treatments to include styling products, demonstrating substantial growth and innovation within the brand (30:36).
• Jennifer Aniston’s Lola V: Jennifer Aniston's haircare brand launched at Mecca, generating excitement among fans and listeners (32:07).
• Consumer Behavior: The hosts discuss the "skinification" of hair care, where consumers demand active ingredients and environmental protection in their hair products, paralleling skincare trends (32:23).
• Market Evolution: They note the shift from closed-door industry discussions to mass consumer awareness and adoption, partly driven by influencer marketing and technological advancements like Dyson's hair tools (36:03).

Notable Quotes:

• Joanna Fleming: "Hair is now becoming as popular, if not more popular at the moment than skincare has been." (32:23)
• Annika Joshi Smith: "I've actually been loving Kerasilk, which is insane for my hair. Cause I've got keratin in my hair." (33:14)

5. Final Thoughts and Future Segments

As the episode concludes, the hosts reflect on the interconnectedness of beauty, fashion, and technology, emphasizing the importance of staying informed and adaptable in a rapidly evolving industry. They tease future episodes, including more in-depth algorithm analyses and continued exploration of emerging beauty and fashion trends.

Notable Quotes:

• Joanna Fleming: "Welcome to your algorithm... it's hair-focused because I'm seeing a lot of hair on my feed at the moment." (29:04)
• Madison Sullivan Thorpe: "We're all sitting in each other's brains. Now we've all got a little deck to remember." (38:16)

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Conclusion:

In this episode of Style-ish, the hosts navigate through pressing beauty industry topics, from the practicalities of maintaining skin health during flights to addressing serious missteps in advertising ethics. They celebrate innovative ventures like Phoebe Gates' FIA app and dissect the burgeoning hair care market, offering listeners a comprehensive overview of current trends and controversies. With engaging discussions and insightful critiques, the episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone interested in the intersections of beauty, fashion, and business.

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For more episodes and detailed discussions, subscribe to Style-ish on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Foreign.

[Joanna Fleming]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Bioderma. Undress your skin. Reveal your glow with the iconic H2O micellar water limited edition bottle created in partnership with Victoria Beckham. Now available at Chemist Warehouse while stocks last.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co hosts are, of course, I, Annika Joshi Smith and Joanna Fleming.

[Joanna Fleming]

Hello. Happy Wednesday.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Happy Wednesday, everybody.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

How are we halfway through the year? Or just about halfway through the year?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I have no idea, honestly. Like, my inner Gemini is coming out. I know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Look out.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It's my birthday soon.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Gemini season.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you want a real Stanley cup or you happy with your Kmart jute?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I actually got a new water bottle.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh. Just dropped that on us. Are you enjoying it as much as the other one?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

As long as my water bottle has a sippy cup, I'm good.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. I need a straw. I'm a big baby.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I need a straw. Okay, good to know. Well, Jo and I will put our heads together. For what?

[Joanna Fleming]

To get you for your birthday. I'm thinking of the Labu Boo.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, yes. Get to read a friend.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

She actually needs a whole tribe.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Luanne.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, we need Luann, we need Kyle. We need the whole gang back together.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What about, like, a few New York ones, like Bethany?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

All over it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Okay, great.

[Joanna Fleming]

All right, well, today we are chatting about beauty routines on long haul flights, which I can't wait to get into, talking about a controversial and tone deaf ad from an Australian teeth whitening brand, Bill Gates Daughter launching a shopping app. And later, we'll get a peek into my algorithm and hint it's hair related. So let's jump into the swap first because we've made that a weekly thing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Now I'm just sitting here stumped that Jo's gonna talk about what's in her algorithm and it's not cleaning. I'm still there, but I'm excited to hear about her.

[Joanna Fleming]

I wasn't allowed to talk about cleaning. She's been banned.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm always allowed. The minute I brought in the mop, all bets were off.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It's true. It's very true.

[Joanna Fleming]

Do you want to do your swap first, Annika? I will.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay, so I'm actually heading off to New York this Friday and I went down memory lane because this time last year I was actually in Miami and one of my Miami purchases was the Nyx Dewy Finish setting spray. I'm not kidding. I showed up in Miami, it was like 100 degrees. And my makeup just kept sliding off my face. This bad boy. It's like $9. And your face stays. It is just, like, dewy, beautiful. Just glowy and such an investment.

[Joanna Fleming]

What color is the bottle? Is it pink?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It's green. Oh, okay. It's called the Nyx Dewy Finish Setting Spray. I found a 60 mil for $8.99 on Amazon. You're welcome.

[Joanna Fleming]

Mads, what's your swap?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This may be one of the most random swaps I ever bring in, but I am absolutely stuck on Isaac Quainor's TikTok. Now, I discovered he actually plays for Collingwood.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay. I was going to say. Who is this?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. So he's a Collingwood footballer.

[Joanna Fleming]

And.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And the reason that it came up on my feed was because he had all of his teammates smelling his fragrance. And it was my favorite fragrance, which is Maison Crivelli's Oud. And I was like, oh, I knew this was a unisex fragrance, but how funny and it was. All of the guys are giving different reactions. Like, that's really nice. How much is it? And he's like, $380. And half of them are like, what the hell? But he is reviewing all of his personal fragrances. Turns out Isaac and I have a really similar fragrance family. Okay, so he loves mfk, Satin Mood, and Maison Crive Oud, which are my two signature scents. But now I find myself looking up all the other fragrances he's suggesting, because he's clearly got the same fragrance nose. So here we are. Not on my bingo card in 2025 that an AFL footballer would be introducing me to a new fragrance. But, Isaac, keep it up. Loving it. We'll be heading into Louis Vuitton to smell the one that he told me was really similar.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Mads wants to be friends. Apparently.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I am so into this locker room chat. Like, this is very cool. I'm like, I did not expect this at all.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

There was a really funny one where he had an elderly family member try it. He's like, you spend that. Isaac's not skimping on his fragrances either. I'm like, oh, Isaac, maybe I could have one or two of these. Not as many as you. I'm loving the reactions of how much he's spending. Almost as much as I'm loving his fragrance recs.

[Joanna Fleming]

I can see he's got a big sponsorship coming his way.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, totally. Look out, Mecca. Do you call Isaac or Isaac's team going to call him?

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, since you mentioned cleaning at the top of the episode, Mads I thought I would bring in a little cleaning swap for you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Perfect.

[Joanna Fleming]

And that is an ultrasonic cleaner for your jewelry. I feel like you mentioned this maybe before. I don't know if it's been on the podcast or if we've just spoken about it personally, but I got.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think it was personal.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I got for Christmas, one of my friends, I actually asked for it for KK was an ultrasonic cleaner from Amazon and they're actually quite affordable. But essentially you just put your jewelry in there. It comes with like a cleaning solution or you can put dishwashing liquid or anything in there and it just kind of vibrates around and cleans all of your jewelry. So you can put your engagement rings in there. Any other kind of jewelry you can put in there just to clean it up, make it nice and shiny and off you go.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I love this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I saw a hack and you might tell me off and I'm so nervous to tell you this, but on TikTok, people have been putting their like engagement rings under the nozzle of the milk frother. You know, when the steam comes out on their coffee machine. I was like, did you do that?

[Joanna Fleming]

Should I can't be good.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And he literally, his face was like.

[Joanna Fleming]

Give me that drink right now.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Dare take that near the milk frother. And I was like, but it actually like gets all stuff out. This is filth. Don't look at it. It's honestly, it's never been cleaned.

[Joanna Fleming]

Do you want me to take it home and put it in a sleep so it cleaner? Yeah, I can do that for you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

When you're buying your $8.99 NYX spray. Maybe also get an ultra spray. Actually, there's your birthday present sorted.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh my God. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Great.

[Joanna Fleming]

And I'll link it in the episode notes for you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Also, it's a really great gift to get your girlfriends when they get newly engaged.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, Christmas was just after I got engaged and I was like, I'm gonna need that. Obviously it's good.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Little like, yeah, the girls instead of.

[Joanna Fleming]

Flowers that are just gonna die and your house is gonna be overwhelmed with them already. Ultrasonic cle.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Great.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So many swaps there.

[Joanna Fleming]

Anyway, that's mine. Headlines today. I'll kick us off.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Great.

[Joanna Fleming]

So an increasing number of people are doing their beauty routines, both skincare and makeup while on long haul flights. And some of them are filming the process, which I have definitely done in my time. But we wondered, is doing skincare on a flight important? Is it bad for you? What about makeup? I read a feature on nine.com titled TikTokers are filming their beauty routines on airplanes. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea. So in that article, according to Dr. Sapna Palip, a dermatologist and medical director interviewed for the piece, a plane's cabin environment has low humidity and recycled air, which can leave your skin fragile and dry. Very true. The outer layer of your skin, the stratum corneum, becomes more fragile and frays easily. Moisture is essential before applying makeup, she says. Now she suggested getting on the plane fresh faced and only doing makeup an hour before landing. But that's just makeup. So how about skincare? Mads, do you want to talk about your habits on flights first?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I am not someone you want to sit next to on the plane if you don't want to see a beauty routine. I feel like Jeffree Star in 2013 When I get on a flight, I'm like, let me take you through. I love doing skincare on a plane and I hate wearing makeup. So I'm generally doing both. I'll always do a pre flight skin prep so that my skin's really clean. I think for me, my skin can be prone to breaking out after a flight for all of the reasons we've just mentioned. Humidity and things like that. And congestion's a really big one for me. So I'll almost always have a facial mist. Now that'll either be something like Tower 28 SOS spray, which is hypochlorous acid, which is great for bacteria, or I'll do something super soothing like a rose water mist. So it's just all about hydration. I love a sheet mask, but what's so important about a sheet mask is not letting it dry out on the face. Like take it off while it's still juicy. Then I'll take either a really hydrating facial moisturizer or a mask that I can wear as a moisturizer. So there's a Mecca Cosmetica mask that I buy. It's the hydration mask. It's in a little pot with a brush. Yes, I have swiped that on. Someone said to me, but people only do it in first class or business class. And I was like, well, homegirls back in economy putting down that tray table. And don't worry, the Coke Zero is to the right and the skincare is down there. But when I used to fly to Sydney for work, I went all the time and I would take like my full makeup bag.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Because who wants to do your makeup when you could just do it on the fly? You Got an hour to kill. Why not?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

For whatever reason, I would just always be sat next to like a 50 or 60 year old gentleman in a suit who was like, what in God's name? While I've got like a full Freddy Krueger sheet mask on, like, you know, getting the eyeliner warmed up on the back of my head. So, yes, Annika, you travel more than all of us combined. Are you doing a full skincare routine?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I'm so guilty, you guys. I went one step further. I did all of your steps. I've got my spritz I always put on. I actually use the summer Fridays mask, like a really, really thick mask and I like one Y. I love to reapply it on my flight, but I also do my LED face mask and I do the full colors. Like I'm sitting there and I'm like a step further.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I'm that girl.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Like literally to the point where sometimes I will talk to the air hostesses. They're like, what are you doing? Tell me this and I'll get up to anyone. So I even get James onto it when he travels with me. I've got some funny content of him literally like lapping it all up and getting all the ultra beams in. But I love it. I'm so guilty and I think takes a lot of confidence on a flight to do these things. Like I watched on TikTok some creators doing their full routine and they were actually saying it helps them combat anxiety because your brain gets distracted. I think it's so important to make sure that your skin is looked after because there's nothing worse than coming out like a shriveled little prune.

[Joanna Fleming]

I agree with that.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Thank you.

[Joanna Fleming]

If you're flying anywhere from Australia by hour six, your skin's feeling dry, tight, dehydrate, maybe even sensitized as well. It's not a nice feeling. Some people are really staunchly against doing your skincare on a flight and I don't really get why. Sanitize your hands.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Then use all your products. Don't use things in a jar. If you're really concerned about bacteria, use something like the Tower 28 spray. That's going to make you feel better. You're not picking up any more bacteria than you would if you were in your own home. I wipe everything down when I get on the flight and then I'm sanitizing my hands every hour.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. As a cleaning. Toxic. Also, I love that people have a problem with you doing your skincare. Let's go back to worrying about People who don't wear shoes or socks on the plane, people who are kicking your tray table, people who put the seat back on demand. Domestic. Like, there are enough things to worry about. If you're sitting down in your seat doing your skincare, you're fine.

[Joanna Fleming]

I only ever get people asking me about it as well, though. And I've done this in business and economy. Like, I don't not do my skincare routine just because I'm sitting in economy and it's a little bit cramped. I can do whatever I need to do.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

If we put her in a tiny, tiny confined box, she will make it work.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes, I can make it work because I also can't go to sleep without doing my skincare because I would have had sunscreen on and then I want to take my sunscreen off. So I'll normally use like a bioderma, do a mini sensor bar. They also have the hydrobio, which is more hydrating. And I just use that micellar water to clean my face. And then I'll do a nourishing serum of some kind. Something with hyaluronic acid, glycerin, squalane ceramides, maybe. Then a rich moisturiser, as you've mentioned, Something that is quite occlusive and thick and creates a bit of a barrier for the skin aspect. Probiotic mask is really good for that. The jet lag mask is also good. It doesn't come in a smaller size, unfortunately. I feel like they should do it in a travel size for those of us that want to use it. I mean, you could decant it and then, yeah, use this facial spritz or a facial oil, whatever you need to do. Reapply your lip bal every hour.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, the lip balm's a good one. Also. A little eye cream on a rollerball does go a long way on a flight, too.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, Mecca Max.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do one that's really good. I think it's called Chill Out. It's on a little silver.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Applicator, which just feels cool on the flight.

[Joanna Fleming]

It just sets me up. It's part of my routine to go to sleep. So if I haven't done that, I kind of feel a little bit yucky. It just makes my skin feel nicer when I come off the flight. And I also don't give a shit if you've got a problem. You're sitting next to me. I'm not anywhere near you. So I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing. I promise I won't spritz you with my Facial spray they might like.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, yeah, I'm happy to share. Is caring. Well, safe to say three out of three, neither of us are going to be offended if anyone's sitting next to us on a flight doing.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

No, I'll be asking you, what are you using?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, let's talk about it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Let's absolutely talk about it, Joe. I'm also like, wow, I'm gonna have to go back and listen to all those ingredients that I need to make sure my serums have when I get on the plane.

[Joanna Fleming]

When we get a skincare recommendation, best believe we're heading straight to Chemist Warehouse to buy it. And today's wreck is world famous, to say the least. It's a French beauty staple and a mainstay in every makeup artist's kit. Oh, and one bottle is sold every second worldwide. Of course, we're talking about the Bioderma Sensibio H2O micellar water. There's a reason it's so popular here in Australia and the number one micellar water throughout Europe. It all comes down to the science. The skincare fans will love this. Micelles act like little magnets that attract and lift away makeup and impurities without disrupting the skin barrier. The formula is also 99% biomimetic, which means its ingredients mimic the natural composition of the skin. So while it removes makeup like nothing else, it's incredibly gentle, even on the most sensitive skin. In fact, it was formulated to be more gentle on the skin than French tap water. To celebrate 30 massive years of Sensibio H2O micellar water, Bioderma have partnered up with another icon, Victoria Beckham, a longtime user of the product and someone who takes impeccable care of her skin to design a limited edition bottle. It's available now at Chemist's Warehouse only while stocks last. Thank you so much to Bioderma for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay, our next headline is about a campaign that we saw recently from Australian brand White Glow. It was a teeth whitening campaign that they had that was quite frankly, tone deaf as an ad campaign. So as I mentioned, it was by Australian teeth whitening brand White Glow. And it sparked some pretty major backlash online. The ad slogan read, make the white choice. And it appeared across an array of trams and buses in metro Sydney and Melbourne. And people, particularly in the videos and comment sections on social media, have really questioned, and rightfully so, how such an ill advised slogan made its way through so many layers of approval. Australian writer and TikTok creator Kriti Gupta broke down the issue some had with the campaign in a recent video. We've got a little clip now we'll play for you so you can hear it yourself.

[Kriti Gupta]

And at first glance you might think, okay, we have phrasing, but what's the issue here? Well, the phrase make the white choice echoes a long history of messaging where whiteness was positioned as superior. The right choice, the clean option, the default. It's language that's been used by far right groups and white supremacist campaigns for decades. And whether this is intentional or not, the association carries harm.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I feel like I need to pause there because it's. We're talking about some pretty serious stuff here. White Glows director Jeffrey Wong did respond to that video in the commentary at large and said in a statement that the tagline make the white choice was simply a playful wordplay on make the right choice and was meant to highlight the effectiveness of the brand's teeth whitening products.

[Joanna Fleming]

So there was no recognition of the fact that that was a massive fuck up.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I don't think there was anywhere near.

[Joanna Fleming]

Enough recognition because that seems like, oh, let me just explain what it was meant to be. That's not what it came across as.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

So how about we apologise starters and take full accountability?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think as well, intent versus impact are two really important things when we're talking about something like this. It actually doesn't matter what the intent is.

[Joanna Fleming]

Exactly.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Impact is what it has been.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Totally. I think honestly this is just not all publicity is good publicity. This is so freaking tone deaf on so many levels. And I think for someone who claims that they are a proudly Australian company. Come on guys. We live in such a multicultural and diverse, diverse society. We should be celebrating all of the different cultures that make up Melbourne and Australia as a whole. And I feel like there is no kind of appreciation for just how much this impacts all of the cultures. I think growing up I experienced a lot of first hand racism. I got called every name under the sun for being different. And I think something that really upset me when I was reading the comments on this is that some people are like, oh, it's not that deep. It's a playful wordplay on the white choice. And I was like, no, that is so culturally insensitive. This is loaded language. And the interpretation is that this could be racial hatred towards people that are not white. That's such a poor apology. I don't even actually think it was a decent apology at all. I think it's a real shame that Geoffrey Wong thought that that would be sufficient enough. I think something as well which was really alarming to me is that obviously this is a public facing campaign and it's on public transport, which I would assume could be owned by a government.

[Joanna Fleming]

Body, the Department of Transport.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. So I'm like, how did that get approved and how did this pass through so many hands?

[Joanna Fleming]

That was my question is how did this get through so many layers?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

How does it get to the point where this is on a tram and someone hasn't gone. Hang on a second. Yeah, I don't know that that would be the right wording. Guys, I think we might need to just revisit this. How? Mads, you would know how many people this goes through to get to a tram.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And Annika, thank you so much for sharing because I know that this is obviously incred incredibly triggering and personal experience as well. But Jo, to your point, this goes through many hands and many layers and there are a lot of people who are responsible for letting this slip. So just for all of our listeners, to give you context on this, it's very likely White Glow were working with a creative agency that helped create this slogan. Nine times out of 10, that's what a brand is doing when they've got budgets that support purchasing out of home, which is what you see, as the name would suggest, anytime you are out of your home. So anything on buses, tram stops on a tram, things like that. So that's likely gone through a creative agency, a design studio, it's gone through to the brand or the parent company that own White Glow, it's gone through likely their internal legal team. And then when you purchase that out of home, you go through a media agency. So the media agency then have their own legal and compliance team as they're purchasing all of those spots. So we're talking about multiple layers and a lot of different people across different corners. I am astounded this hasn't been brought.

[Joanna Fleming]

Up and it really wasn't clear from all angles as well of this tram. And I saw this TikTok very early on, actually agree before it was really viral. I looked at all the comments because I was like, how did this happen? And I was looking at the back of the tram. I'm like, this isn't clear to me that this is a toothpaste. I don't know what I'm looking at here.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think with Jeffrey Wong's response as well. Wordplay is increasingly attractive to brands in their marketing. It's a tool that is used to elicit conversation and excitement and buzz. This is conversation period. There is no excitement, there is no buzz. This is really damaging. And in the current climate that we're in, I think the undertone of this as we have had so much sort of right wing content, there's a lot of layers. I'm really concerned that this went through from a branding perspective and I think there's a lot we need to probably look at, particularly for media agencies that ultimately are the final stakeholder that sign off on these being distributed across large scale billboards and tram stops and things that have high visibility. But there also is a real piece on the brands that they have to really show up and when they do make mistakes like this, I also think that how they respond says a lot about who they are.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I agree big time. I think they can absolutely do better.

[Phoebe Gates]

So it seems the coloured suede sneaker continues to reign supreme for yet another season and we're not mad about it. But while we're still obsessed with this vibe, there's a new style that we're loving. We're not alone either. I feel like all the fashion girlies and trendsetters are wearing this one at the moment. It's the Puma Speed Cap at JD Sports. It has that super streamlined shape that's taken over the chunky styles from last year and it comes in a range of colors. Personally, I'm very into the black and the pastel pink or even the cloud gray and white. This shoe is instant style points. Discover it now online or in store at JD Sports. Thank you so much to Puma and JD Sports making this episode of stylish possible.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Onto a lighter note Bill Gates Daughter Has Launched a Shopping App Bill Gates daughter Phoebe Gates has just announced that she has launched her AI powered shopping Apple alongside her former roommate Sophia Kiani. The app is called fia, which is, as you guessed, a fun little play on their two names. And it's designed to streamline the online shopping experience by comparing prices of clothing, shoes and accessories on different websites and different listings. So currently it's available on iOS and a browser extension on Google Chrome. I think she would have been in trouble if she had have just gone with good old iOS for Apple there. But once the app or extension is installed, there's a Should I buy this button that starts appearing when you land on a product's page. And so if you click on that button, FIA will comb the web for you and compare the prices of both new but also used listings of the same or similar products and let you know whether the price you're currently Looking at is high, low, or typical. I mean, pretty genius.

[Joanna Fleming]

I love this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So the point of difference of FIA is that it's using AI to analyze current market trends and is encouraging shoppers to make more sustainable choices by combing through a database of more than 250 million used items from sites like Vestiere, Thredup, Stockx, Poshmark, and ebay, which are the world's largest secondhand luxury retailers. So then it's also offering up alternatives to buying an item brand new, while also providing the insights on the potential resale value of those items as well. As an interesting aside, late last month, Phoebe and Sophia were actually signed to Alex Cooper's Unwell Podcast network and announced as the host of the Burnout, a career advice podcast. So that was in conjunction to them also being interviewed on the Call Her Daddy episode with Alex Cooper.

[Joanna Fleming]

Interesting move there, career advice. I don't wanna go down the Nepo baby.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I mean, you kind of have to.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, you kind of do. Because I feel like that's one thing you have to discuss.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

In this case, because, you know, when you come from that much privilege, obviously you're gonna be set up to succeed maybe a little bit more than the average person, because you probably have a lot of financial backing to create a business like Fear. But in saying that, I feel like Nepo babies can't win sometimes. You know, if you do nothing with your life, then you're just living off your parents, and if you do something with your life, then you've taken their money, and that's the only way that you've been successful. So I actually really love to see that Phoebe is doing something in tech. It's really great to see her do something like that. I'm really interested to see what this podcast is and how the reception is to that, because she did a podcast episode recently, which we've spoken about off mic before, and I think you said that it was one of the best responses to the Nepo baby question.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. She really just said, yeah, I get a foot in the door. She really owned the privilege. She was like, I never had to worry about college or a scholarship or if my parents could afford it. I always knew that I would go to college, and I always knew that I had that privilege. But I also really loved that she was like, yep, I get let in the door, but I have to work once I'm in there.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think what I felt so affectionate towards about that being zero Nepo baby myself, mind you, was that she just owned it. I'm so sick of this. Like, yeah, but I had to work twice as hard. I'm like, I'm so done with that answer. Is that the reality? Probably not. So for someone just to go, hell yeah, I had a lot of doors open for me, but I hustled once I was in there and I've still got to do the work. I found it really refreshing just to see her go, fuck, yeah, guys, I got a lot of privilege. Like, my dad's one of the richest men in the whole world and sure, I know a lot about tech thanks to him, so you better believe I've built a tech up.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, honestly, I agree. I loved watching her interview on that and I think it was really interesting because then obviously her business partner, Sophia, she kind of talked about, well, hey, she actually had to do the work as well. She actually had to apply for different scholarships. We had to go that extra mile. And I do quite like that synergy between the two of them because I think, you know, you do have this person who's coming from a huge amount of privilege. We can't deny that. But I think what they're doing in this space is really, really interesting. And already they've gotten some big investors on board, like Kris Jenner, Obviously you don't need to go. No notes there. But Sara Blakely as well, who is the founder of Spanx, like, they're obviously saying that this is going to be a commercial product. And I think I downloaded the app and I've actually started having a look on it. I'm not gonna lie, I'm super impressed. There are some pieces and it's not even just about high end shopping. Some of the pieces I was looking at, they were scouring the Internet and I found so many cheaper options, some at 50% off. And I feel like this can be not only like speaking to Gen Z, but so many people. Because we all wanna save money. We all, if we want to, can shop more sustainably and go down the resale path. Which I thought was really cool as well. But it was really interesting just to see both of them put them as like, I guess brand owners and founders create their brand first before kind of teasing out fear. Like, I actually really like how they've done this. We've spoken so much about, hey, as founders, you don't want to always be the face of your brand. But they've leaned into it. She's owned the Nepo baby. She's owned everything. And I feel like this is gonna do really, really well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. And she's Also the daughter of one of the biggest tech moguls in the world who's brought out a tech product.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hell yeah. I hope you're asking your dad for advice too. If anyone's well placed. Yeah, that's a family I'm trusting.

[Joanna Fleming]

You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But I agree. I think this is a genius app. I think particularly for people who spend a lot of time browsing on the Internet trying to find something at a cheaper price, this is saving a shit ton of time. I also think it's really similar to at the moment, a lot of things that we're seeing in terms of, you know, when you're shopping on David Jones or the iconic now and things like Aerobor, you could rent this for or Vault saying, you know, if you buy this $600 dress, you could get $100 per rental and things like that. All of those things are helping consumers make an informed decision when they're buying something. Yeah. Is there another way that I can make money out of this? What is it likely to be at a resale value? Can I find this cheaper in the current climate and any climate to continue after this financial sort of shit show we're in right now? I think ultimately, if you are in a position that you're shopping and not looking for the cheapest price, I don't want to know about it. You should never turn your nose up at a bargain.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I mean, look, it's kind of ironic that Phoebe created an app for time poor people and those that are wanting to save money, because I don't think she needs to do that. But I love it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think this is great. I'm really intrigued to see what happens with the podcast too, and how they use that as a platform for fear, because the career advice doesn't naturally go hand in hand with this platform and this tech, but perhaps it's positioning them as authorities and them putting themselves at the front of the platform and really making a name for themselves.

[Joanna Fleming]

I do wonder if it's going to be more an interview based podcast with other people. Oh, it is. Okay, cool. I might listen into that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No, I don't think Alex Cooper would be quite naive enough to let two younger women fresh out of college sit down and give all the groove rights.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, I don't know about that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

To be fair, though, when Alex was interviewing them, she did throw them questions like, I'm going to give you workplace scenarios and give me some verbatim of like, what I could say, like, essentially dress it up in corporate speak. They were Phenomenal. I was like, I've managed people over the years. And I was like, if I was still managing a team, I'd probably use some of them. So I haven't downloaded Fear yet, but I definitely think I will because I love any form of plugin I use. Honey, I love a shop bag. I love all the things.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I honestly think you're going to be pleasantly impressed by this as well. It's so user friendly and I think just also normal is so important in this climate. You'll be surprised at the number of bargains. I'm a serial online shopper and I think the convenience factor for me has just been like, oh, wow. I love shopping transparently. And now I'm saving the economy at one purchase at a time.

[Joanna Fleming]

You're gonna be using this every week, I reckon.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Saving the economy one purchase at a time. I would love to sit at home with James and you just be like, what? It arrived. I'm just saving the economy one purchase at a time. And now, Jo, I'm so excited for this. You're gonna intro us to. Welcome to your algorithm.

[Joanna Fleming]

I am a very popular segment on the Shameless podcast and it's one of my favorite segments on that podcast. So I asked Shameless co founder Zara McDonald if we could intro this to the Stylish podcast because we are part of the Shameless Media Network, so it only makes sense. And she granted permission. So here we are.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thanks, Sara McDonald.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. This week we are bringing in welcome to my algorithm. And it is hair focused because I'm seeing a lot of hair on my feet at the moment. Have you guys been seeing hair content as well, or have I been sucked down a hole?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay, so I have not, but I think it's because I will go into this, but my hair just grows at a rapid rate. It's actually kind of crazy. Okay, so if anything.

[Joanna Fleming]

So you're not looking for anything.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I'm not looking for anything here. If anything, it's like, how do I slow down my gray hair from growing my hair?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Content is generally how to get, you know, the big bouncy blow wave.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Oh, nice. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Bigger the hair, the bigger the heart vibe.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay, well, I'm seeing a lot of this launch of a new brand called Bouf or Bouff. B o U f. It's by the founder Rachel Wild of TBH Skincare, and they've partnered with Indie Clinton.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I have seen this.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I've seen the launch kind of teaser of this brand, but there was a little bit of controversy around the campaign shoot for that because Indie was wearing a wig and she was wearing extensions and people in the comments were like, well, why are you trying to sell us a hair growth brand? Yeah, because it is hair growth focused. Why are you trying to sell us this if she's got extensions in and she's wearing a wig? Which was interesting. And Rachel did talk about that a little bit on TikTok as well. I'm also seeing a shit ton of content from Kerastars and the new glaze drops.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They are. Yes, I saw these. They are spending so much on influencer marketing right now, big time, and I have to give it to them. The content is really good.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's really good. So they sent a few major influencers to New York maybe last month or the month before to essentially launch these glaze drops, I think to the Australian market. Because there was an event in New York and Em Rada and Sydney Sweeney were there. Casual, yeah, very casual. So Riley Hempson was there, Jackie Alexander, I think Martha Calafatitis was there as well. So there's some major names in the Australian influencer landscape that are working with Kerastase at the moment and I think their reach must just be phenomenal right now. I do really want to buy these glaze drops after seeing it. I've seen it too many times in my head now that I need them. But the other brand is K18, which I've spoken about the dry shampoo. I've mentioned that I got influenced to buy it from seeing it on a few hairdressers, TikToks. I then posted it, I then bought it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You then told me to buy it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Then your friend Miranda bought it because.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I said to buy it.

[Joanna Fleming]

So that's really going in my feed at the moment. I'm seeing a lot of content around K18, which I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see because I was working in Adore Beauty at the time that the K18, like hair treatment launched into Australia. I think we were the first people to have it at Adore Beauty and I didn't really know what to think of the brand at that time and just seeing how much innovation they've come out with since then. Yeah, they've got shampoo and conditioner, they've now got styling products. It's actually really cool to see the evolution of that brand and I think they're probably doing the most amazing job in innovation at the moment in the hair care space. I'm really loving that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But I also saw maybe I'm a liar because I'm like, I haven't had that much hair in my feet. And I'm like, wait, now that you said these things, I'm like, yeah, I got that. Yeah. I'm chronically online. There's just a lot of content I'm clearly being served. But I also saw that Jennifer Aniston's brand Lola V is launching at Mecca.

[Joanna Fleming]

I saw that too. That was one thing I forgot to mention.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I'm also just obsessed with Jennifer Aniston in Jennifer I Trust. So I'm excited to try that as well. Because anything Jen will do, I will do. Except for like the five hours of yoga and only eating brains.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Seeing her with the Mecca bags in that content was really quite, like, surreal.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I'm interested to know what brands are standing out to you in the hair care space at the moment. Because we're seeing a lot about the skinification of hair. You know, hair is now becoming as popular, if not more popular at the moment than skincare has been. People are more conscious about what is in their hair care. They're wanting it to really perform the same way in terms of having active ingredients like antioxidants to provide environmental protection. They want the bond repair to maintain the health of their hair. Are there any brands that are standing out to you guys? Aside from the ones, I guess, that I've mentioned, yes.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I've actually been loving Kerasilk, which is insane for my hair. Cause I've got keratin in my hair. And I think it's got like, no sulfur, no nasties. All of those things that kind of make your hair a bit more curly, I think. But I've been loving all of their products. I feel like it really does just help keep my hair a lot more manageable. Cause it is so coarse and curly, as I have spoken about numerous times. But also a brand called He Knows, they do like a really beautiful growth serum. I actually had to give it to a friend because I couldn't use it on my hair. My hair grows way too fast. I don't know, like what is going on with me, you guys, but my hair grows at an absurd rate. It's actually absurd. Maybe it's all the non I'm drinking, who knows? But like, I'm trying to slow down my growth. And they give you also, like in this little package, it's like a hair sculpt massager thing. So I still use the massager thing. Cause it's so nice.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, it does.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

But the Hino hair growth oil that smells Kind of like peppermint had to be passed on because it definitely made my hair grow way too fast.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, good endorsement.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, great endorsement. If you're looking for hair growth, I'm with you, Annika. I'm one of those people that people always give me a dirty side eye when I say, oh, it just grows so fast.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And yeah, I'm sorry.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Be nice. Crown Affair is one I've seen a lot of. They're available in Mecca but quite big in the States. It's funny for me, like I've mentioned on here, I'm probably newer on my hair care journey. Maybe that's because I've got the virgin hair. That means I haven't had it colored yet. But don't worry, there's enough grays in there.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Must be nice joining soon.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'll be there holding a wake for my gray. But Crown Affairs 1k18jo as you've mentioned, I bought a lot of those, but Orbe is one that I think are doing a really good job for me. I'm obviously looking at a lot of their branding and marketing, so there's those. But Jamie Lupton also does a great job of accessible hair care. She started with Monday. She's got an array of products, but she had a brand that she launched in the US being Haircare that's just launched. Yeah, it's really bright and colorful. Very different to Monday's vibe, but that's based on hair type. And then they've also launched Laura Poco, which is in collaboration with a celebrity hairstylist based out of la. So that's available in the US but not here. But I feel like I'm looking more at the branding side of things. But as I said, like, the girl ain't using a heat protector. But, you know, I'm on the journey of seeing. But Rach, I've enjoyed watching her behind the scenes reveal of both, but agree, I think it'll be interesting to see where that brand goes.

[Joanna Fleming]

It will be. And I also thought it was an interesting pivot from her going from skincare and not staying in skincare.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

She's clearly recognised that there is room in the market for hair care to be a bit more of a focus.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I wouldn't be surprised if we now see a major influx of hair care brands. But because we're in the industry, Mads, I think we've been seeing this rise of hair care probably over the last two, two and a half years.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's, I think, now reaching the consumer. So we were aware of all of these plans in the trends in the background that were making their way through. But it's probably now more consumer, I think.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I believe Dyson has a lot to do with this too. Because I think people were going and buying these really expensive hair care tools and suddenly it was kind of like the orbit that it extended from. Because suddenly everyone was like, I need a hair heat protectant. I need a setting mist. Oh, I really wanna start looking after my scalp. As you said, Jo, these were obviously conversations in closed doors we were having two, three years ago. I find it so funny seeing it now. Cause it's sort of like when you're prepping for a holiday buy of products a whole year before you see it in store. Kind of loses the magic when you're like, haven't we been talking about this for ages? But it's reaching mass now. And suddenly I think people are thinking about hair health as an extension of their skin. Much like how skincare doesn't stop at your nipples. And body care had this really big moment with, you know, the Sol de Janeiros of the world taking off and body butters and things like that. I feel like we're finally going from the toes up to the top of the head.

[Joanna Fleming]

This feels like another high maintenance. Things I do to be low maintenance, which is healthy hair that you have to style less.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And I think a lot of that comes back to TikTok as well. And seeing people with really thick, luscious, beautiful, bouncy blow waves and wanting to recreate the same thing at home.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Or as we said when we did our episode of Myth Busting for Hair, we had like the era of Hailey Bieber and Sophia Richie Grange with all these slick back buns and everyone going, now I've got a bit of breakage or a slight little bald spot. How do I get it to stay? But also how many washes do I have to do to get the pomade out that I've never used before? And there's a shitload of product in there and I don't know how to clean it out. I hope that the bald spots are all going okay, ladies.

[Joanna Fleming]

Not really.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Spoken from experience. She says we're full slick Rick. But yes, here I was being a total liar, Jo. I think I'm also on the same.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I think you're in the algorithm. That's safe to say. Yeah, I'm not the only one. Well, that's going to be our mainstay segment, I think now that Zara McDonald's given us the Go ahead. I've welcomed my algorithm and Stylish. One of you will bring yours next time.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I can't wait to bring Tucker, the golden retriever that I keep being served in my.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

My algorithm is so rogue, you guys, so who knows?

[Joanna Fleming]

Can't wait.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm genuinely a little bit scared to see Annika's, but I'm excited. It's like going on a roller coaster. You don't know when it's gonna go up, down, or upside down. That is all for this week's episode of Stylish, though. Thank you very much for joining us. And of course, thank you very much, Annika Joshi Smith and Joanna Fleming. Always a pleasure.

[Joanna Fleming]

Never at all.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I was actually just about to say that.

[Joanna Fleming]

I knew it. That's why I said it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We've actually been doing this so long, we all sit in each other's brains. Now we've all got a little deck to remember. You can drop us an email anytime at style-ishameless media.com or you can slide into our DMS over at Stylish Pod. And we can't forget to thank our lovely audio engineer, Liam Clayton and the Shameless Media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emmerburg. We'll be right back with you next Wednesday. See you then.

[Joanna Fleming]

Bye Bye.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be, aboriginal land.

[Ray]

Hello, guys. Ray here, head of business development at Shameless Media. And you just listened to a full episode of Stylish, which we think and hope means you enjoyed what you heard. Since you're a fan, I wanted to tell you about our Stylish newsletter. Reading the Stylish newsletter, honestly feels like flicking through your favorite magazine, except it's all free and delivered straight to your info box. Are you looking for the best bowl of pasta in Melbourne? Or maybe you need a new door shoe. Guys, if you know, you know, maybe you just like an exclusive peek in the Shameless Media offices shopping carts. I mean, you're only human. Or some styling and beauty tips from the professionals. Well, we've got all of that and more in the Stylish newsletter. If you scroll to the show notes in this episode, you'll find a link to subscribe to the Stylish newsletter. We'll be dropping it in your inbox very, very soon.