Matilda and the Djerf Avenue saga

Summary

Podcast Summary: Style-ish Episode – "Matilda and the Djerf Avenue Saga"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Style-ish
• Host/Author: Shameless Media
• Description: Style-ish is the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty.
• Episode: Matilda and the Djerf Avenue Saga
• Release Date: December 17, 2024

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1. Matilda Djerf and the Jerf Avenue Scandal

Timestamp: 03:25 – 06:54

In this episode, the hosts delve deep into the controversy surrounding Swedish influencer and brand founder, Matilda Djerf, and her label, Jerf Avenue. Accusations have surfaced alleging that Matilda has fostered a hostile work environment within her company.

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe highlights the severity of the allegations:

  "Matilda Djerf has created an environment of, and I quote, psychological terror at her label" (03:25).

• Former and current employees have come forward, claiming instances of favoritism, verbal abuse, and inappropriate demands, such as forcing an employee to scrub her personal toilet. These actions have reportedly led to significant mental health issues among staff, including anxiety and sleep disturbances.

• Joanna Fleming expresses concern about the brand's future:

  "I just don't know how this is going to go down for the brand... it has seriously soured the brand's reputation" (05:07).

• Annika Joshi Smith reflects on the broader implications for female-owned businesses:

  "...it feels like nasty high school mean girl mentality... feeds into that kind of catty, bitchy territory" (05:43).

The hosts discuss the potential long-term impact on Jerf Avenue and Matilda Djerf's personal brand, emphasizing the difficulty of recovering from such negative publicity.

2. Year in Review: Fashion Brands

Timestamp: 13:26 – 23:35

The hosts review standout fashion brands of the year based on listener polls and their own insights.

• Loewe emerges as the top fashion brand, admired for its innovative approach and the creative direction of Jonathan Anderson. Annika commends Loewe’s versatility:

  "They blur the line between the avant-garde and the commercial as imaginatively or ruthlessly as Jonathan Anderson" (19:11).

• Dish is highlighted as a leading Australian brand, praised for its "quiet luxury" and accessible price points. The hosts appreciate Dish's in-house design strategy and consistent brand DNA, leading to substantial growth and international recognition.

• Henny, an Australian denim brand founded in 2019, is recognized for its minimalist, Scandinavian-inspired designs and successful retail expansion. Annika notes:

  "They are doing such a fantastic job at just overachieving... keeping it fresh and relevant" (22:10).

3. Year in Review: Beauty Brands

Timestamp: 24:11 – 31:20

The discussion shifts to beauty brands that have made significant impacts over the year.

• Glossier is celebrated for its sustained popularity and successful expansion into the Australian market via Mecca. The hosts commend Glossier's inclusive in-store experience and continuous product innovation.

• Road by Hailey Bieber is spotlighted as a leading beauty brand, credited to its effective influencer marketing and Gen Z-savvy collaborations. Madison praises Lauren Ratner, Road's Chief Marketing Officer, for revolutionizing the beauty game:

  "Lauren Ratner is seriously changing the beauty game" (27:23).

The brands are applauded not only for their marketing strategies but also for delivering quality products that resonate with consumers.

4. Celebrity Style Highlights

Timestamp: 32:01 – 36:21

The hosts discuss notable celebrity styles that have defined the year.

• Daisy Edgar-Jones is recognized for her transformative style, particularly her look at the London Twisters premiere which garnered widespread acclaim:

  "Her stylist is Danielle Goldberg... her beauty looks hair and makeup... she has found her [style]" (33:14).

• Zendaya continues to impress with her evolving fashion sense, maintaining her status as a style icon. The collaboration with stylist Law Roach is highlighted as a key factor in her consistent red carpet success.

The conversation underscores the influence of personal branding and strategic styling in shaping celebrity fashion narratives.

5. Personal Reflections from Hosts

Timestamp: 07:24 – 12:01

In a more personal segment, each host shares a word that defined their year and reflects on personal and professional growth.

• Joanna Fleming chose "Transformative", attributing it to her first year in business and personal milestones like engagement. She observes:

  "It's been a big year for a lot of people in good and bad ways" (07:24).

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe selected "Brave", discussing her journey towards embracing joy and independence:

  "Every decision I've made this year has been entirely my own and for me... I feel so free" (08:43).

• Annika Joshi Smith opted for "Progression", highlighting her growth in both personal and professional realms:

  "I've been unapologetically me... growing, evolving... inspired by what I'm gonna be able to do next" (10:34).

Their reflections emphasize resilience, courage, and continual growth amidst the dynamic landscapes of fashion and beauty.

6. Closing Thoughts

Timestamp: 36:31 – 38:44

The episode wraps up with heartfelt thanks to listeners and acknowledgments to the team members. The hosts encourage audience engagement by inviting listeners to share their own words of the year and tease future content.

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Notable Quotes:

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe:

  "If you're not in the arena getting your ass kicked, I'm not interested in your feedback." (09:46)

• Annika Joshi Smith:

  "We have been pulled in every single direction. I've overcome so many challenges and I'm just so proud of how much I've showed up for myself." (11:23)

• Joanna Fleming:

  "Road has become the most talked-about beauty brand this year. Their influencer marketing strategy has been probably the biggest top tier." (27:27)

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This episode of Style-ish provides a comprehensive overview of the significant events and trends in the fashion and beauty industries over the year. From high-profile scandals to breakthrough brands and celebrity style evolutions, the hosts offer insightful analysis and personal reflections, making it a valuable listen for enthusiasts looking to stay informed and inspired.

Transcript

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Foreign.

[Annabelle]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Upstate. Find your positive state of mind one sweaty workout at a time.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co hosts are Annika Joshi Smith and Joanna Fleming. This is our last episode of the year.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm happy but sad.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I can't believe I know we get here.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Speak for yourselves. I am crawling to the finish line. The way I related to the most recent episode of Shameless, talking about burnout, I was like, it is alive and well over here.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you believe this time last year, the three of us were only just, like, meeting for the first time.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

We were strangers.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I mean, Mads and I kind of already knew each other, but you were a complete stranger.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I had to audition. I had to, like, you know, throw my head in the ring to get the role.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And then we went and had a wine and it was like an awkward trio date.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, my God.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It was like speed dating by a quick questions. If you were like, asl.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I. I asked all of your life stories.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Joe's like, okay, so, like, your darkest secrets go.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And Annika and I are really not good at keeping a secret sometimes. We should.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

We should really be on Everybody Has a Secret.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. We had the Shameless Media Christmas party on Friday and won't lie, I think we were all campaigning to maybe have a little feature on that one. Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Anonymously, of course.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, you don't need a voice to stop me. Is this thing on? That'll be.

[Joanna Fleming]

You actually have some good news for us.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I have some fantastic news. So I don't know if everyone's been following along lately, but the Australian Fashion Week was kind of up in arms. No one was really sure if it was going to be able to continue in 2025 because IMG, who has been the sponsor for the last 20 years, pulled out, which was a huge deal to our fashion industry here. And drum roll, please. The Australian Fashion Council has come in and saved it with destination New South Wales. So that means it will be up and running again next year, which everyone fashion industry is so excited about. So we're going to have that platform to make sure our Australian brands still get the recognition they deserve.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yay. And still at Carriage Works in Sydney.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Carriage Works, 12th to 16th May. So most of us will probably be on the ground, whether selling collections, buying collections, viewing collections. It'll be good.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I want a full rundown when you go.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

You can come.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, great.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, my God.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Can I be the sage intern?

[Joanna Fleming]

Absolutely. Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I want to be super intern.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm sure you will be executive intern.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Turn you've ever had.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I actually don't doubt it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Neither do I. All right, so today we're going to be reviewing the year that was in fashion, beauty and brand.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

What about cleaning?

[Joanna Fleming]

Not cleaning today. Not cleaning.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Guys, I'm out here fighting me today.

[Joanna Fleming]

And earlier this month, we polled you all to find out what brands really stood out to you this year. Who was doing big things and which celebrity had the best year, style wise. So we're going to unpack that later, but before we dive into that, we'll each be sharing our words that define 2024. And we're going to explore those explosive allegations that are circulating about Matilda Jerf and her label, Dirf Avenue. So let's jump into that scandal that's currently making waves on TikTok.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I mean, the accusation is that Matilda Durf has created a really hostile work environment. And for those of you who aren't familiar, Matilda Jerf is a Swedish influencer who is now a brand founder of her namesake brand, Jerf Aven. And she's been accused of creating an environment of, and I quote, psychological terror at her label. She's been accused of favoritism, regularly yelling at her employees, forcing an employee to scrub her personal toilet, and making fat, phobic comments, despite positioning Jerf Avenue as an inclusive brand and company. So I know everyone's faces is giving me exact same reaction here. So Swedish newspaper Afton Bladert, I'm sure I've absolutely butchered that, interviewed 11 former and current employees of the brand who said. Said that in some instances, the bullying has led to anxiety and sleep issues.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, they've got these, like, anonymous interviews where their faces are, like, blacked out and they've got their voices distorted and they're talking about their experiences.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And it's a relatively new business. So 11 employees is a lot of employees. Yes, I think as well, like, some of the quotes really stuck out to me. Like one of the former employees told the publication, when I was at my lowest point, I realized that I stopped eating. I didn't sleep at all. I got terrible anxiety every day, every time I entered the office. And I just think that's so sad because we spend more time at work than we do with, like, our friends and family. So to feel like that, going somewhere where you're just there to make an income and, you know, like, progress your career, like, I think it's really. It's disappointing.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I saw that. She also released a statement which looks like it has been generated by ChatGPT.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So yeah, she says with a lot of sarcasm.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I just don't know how this is going to go down for the brand. I think this has seriously soured the brand's reputation and I don't know whether they're going to be able to claw back from this, to be honest.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think what's really disappointing about it is if these allegations are true, what disappoints me is I hate what it does for other female owned or operated businesses because I think it feels like nasty high school mean girl mentality and I think there's so many incredible female founded businesses with incredible female bosses. I just don't love this narrative because I think it feeds into that kind of like catty, bitchy territory and they.

[Joanna Fleming]

Get tarnished with the same brush.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, it's so hard as well when people have a profile and sometimes I think it can be a little bit egotistical to have this profile and think you can kind of treat people that are lower than you in a certain way and it's just so not cool. Like unfortunately, I think the fashion industry as a whole and this might even play out into the beauty and brand space as well, but it is a very fast paced industry and it's often associated fast paced with toxic. And I think sometimes industry as a whole can get quite a bad rap. But this is just so disappointing. She has such a huge following or did have such a huge following, but after this I feel like it's going to be really hard for her to come back because I agree that apology just didn't really feel, I don't know, genuine.

[Joanna Fleming]

Do you remember when they were sending out cease and desists to people that were saying that there was like dupes of Durf Avenue that were doing like Amazon hauls and me like this is a dupe of Jerf Avenue. And then she was trying to and cease and desist to people for saying that it was similar. I wonder where that ended up. I actually don't know where that ended up. It didn't go down very well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Jerf Avenue because I feel like it kind of really blew up last year and has kind of gone from strength to strength and even what happens to Matilda Jer herself.

[Joanna Fleming]

So in earlier episodes of Stylish, we've discussed how impactful it can be to set a word to guide you in the year ahead. Instead of a bunch of, like, unrealistic New Year's resolutions. But we're going to do this practice in reverse today, and we're going to look back at a word that sums up 20, 24 for each of us, which I'm excited to do. For me, that word is transformative, I think, in good and bad ways. So for me personally, it's positive. My first year in business, out on my own, not working for somebody else.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Well done.

[Joanna Fleming]

Thank you. It's been very exciting to still be able to pay my mortgage. Starting this podcast with you guys has been so exciting and outside of my comfort zone. Being more fashion based, that's not my usual domain. It's been so much fun working with you guys and the broader shameless team. I got engaged, obviously, which you've already heard about.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Well done, Adrian.

[Joanna Fleming]

But then in terms of it being transformative for this industry that we talk so much about, I think it's been a huge year in the retail space. It's been transformative for brands that have had to pivot and change their strategies to work within this economic environment that we find ourselves in. And we've seen brands like Dion Lee and others go into administration because they haven't been able to sustain this climate. And I think it will be really interesting to see how brands work this out over the next 12 months, because it doesn't seem like interest rates are lowering anytime soon. And I think we're only going to be feeling the pinch more as consumers and find ourselves unable to buy into as much of the retail space as we maybe once were able to. So I think it's going to continue to be transformational for retail as a whole, especially in Australia and elsewhere. But, yeah, I think it's been a big year for a lot of people in good and bad ways.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, I like that.

[Joanna Fleming]

Mads, what's yours?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Well, I shared what my word of the year was, and when I reflect back on.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Brave.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, brave.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And when I reflect back on this year, I think reflection is a lovely thing because we don't often do it right. But brave. I have been so brave, and I find that really hard to say because I never get emotional. I actually feel really emotional talking about this. I always talk about life in seasons, and there's like, benchwarming seasons where you just, like, need to sit on the sideline and, like, courage is just every day. But this year I felt like I was ready to get off the bench after, like, a few shitty years, and I just feel like I have just attacked life and embraced joy and things that gave me butterflies like it was all a yes. And I just think I love this Brene Brown quote and I wrote it down because I didn't want to get it wrong. It's if you're not in the arena getting your ass kicked, I'm not interested in your feedback. And I just feel like. Like I cared so much about what other people thought of me or what they would think of decisions that I made. And every decision I've made this year has been entirely my own and for me. And I don't really give a shit about anyone else's opinion anymore.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I love that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I feel so free. I feel the happiest I've ever felt and all the things you spoke about. I did not get engaged this year, but it's always next year. But, you know, stylish. And I had a great year at work and I'm wrapping up my job. I don't know what I'm gonna do next year, but I'm excited for that, too. Like, I don't know. I feel like I'm going to be brave up until the 31st of December. And I really hope I'm still brave in 2025 too, because I finally feel really proud to say it's a winning season.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, it's been an absolute pleasure watching you flourish, doll.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I've got to agree with that. I honestly can't wait for 2025 for you. Maybe that's going to be like your next most pivotal year.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm so excited for you.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I really am.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thanks, guys.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

We feel good things.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm hoping my words like confident next year because I did a lot of faking it till I made it this year. I think I feel a little more settled, honestly.

[Joanna Fleming]

Annika, what's your word?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I feel like mine's kind compilation of the two of you. So I definitely agree with so many things you both said. Like, that all just totally resonated with me, but mine's actually progression. So I feel like for me, 2024 has honestly tested me in so many ways. I feel like I've been pulled in every single direction. I've overcome so many challenges and I'm honestly just so proud of how much I've showed up for myself. I think it's been a year where I've been unapologetically me and I think to so many extents. I also used to care a lot about what people think. Am I making the right decisions? I used to second guess myself and all of especially in Business a lot. And then when I've taken the time to reflect, just going, hang on a second. We're doing some really cool shit. Or we turned four this year at Sage. We've just hired our fifth employee. We're onboarding some insanely cool clients. Oh, my God. I just got teary.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What is going on in this room?

[Joanna Fleming]

I think it's just really hot.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I know. It's actually the 40 degrees today.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We're malfunctioning. Don't ever let anyone know I have feelings.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Totally. But I think this year has just been a really big year for me, both, both personally and professionally. Just pushing myself to new boundaries, stylish. As a whole, this is something I never, ever, ever would have thought I would be doing in a million years. And so I'm just insanely honored to be sitting here with you both. Obviously part of the shameless omniverse. Like, it's insane. So I think this year, it's all about growing for me, Evolving. And I'm just really feeling inspired by what I'm gonna be able to do next.

[Joanna Fleming]

Amazing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, that's quite nice.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Go us.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's us done for this week. And that's the episode done now. All right, before we get into our survey results, here is a wor Today's sponsor.

[Annabelle]

Guys, I don't know how it's happened, but we've reached the point where we are reflecting on the year that was and thinking about the changes we want to make next year. Maybe we want to experiment with an outrageous new trend, spend more time with friends, finally get out to clearing our wardrobe or do something for our personal growth like implement a new morning routine. Whatever it is, big or small, working on yourself is one of the chicest things you can do to level up for the year ahead. When it comes to movement, we believe it's about more than just exercise. It's about feeling good, building community, and finding your positive state of mind. If this Sounds like your 2025, Upstate is your new second home. They have 12 studios across Victoria offering boxing, reformer, pilates, hot pilates, which is my favorite. Yoga and sound bath, meditation. And as a little Christmas present to your future self, you can grab 30 days of unlimited upstate classes for just $29. With the current stylish, stylish spelled S t y l e I s h. Find your positive state of mind one sweaty workout at a [e-mail]. thank you so much to upstate for making this episode of stylish possible.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So, as we mentioned earlier this month, we polled you, our lovely listeners, on the year that was in fashion, beauty and brand. And first we're going to dive into what fashion brands stood out to you the most this year. But before we get into the results, do we have any predictions on who the standouts might be?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Bottega Verda.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes. Okay, so I feel like it's Mew Mew or Chloe.

[Joanna Fleming]

Chloe.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Chloe had like a standout year, but also like I've got data, but makeup fashions, like Miu Miu off the chart analysis in my head, they're my guesses.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I mean closer to home, more like accessible and local. I reckon Venroy could make the list.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Because they've expanded into the us they did a few fun little activations like Abercrombie style activations. They've branched out a bit from the elasticated skirt they became popular for. Yeah. The one that you roll over, I think Unison as well. Yvonne and A Pali. All of those really like pop straight into my mind as brands that have really been doing big things this year and making waves in that kind of more accessible space. And if we're talking about bad press, Witchery, the witchery rebrand that does pop into mind. And of course Jeff Avenue more recently that we've just discussed. Annika, who came on top of the poll results.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Drumroll please. Loewe.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We couldn't say it. Cause we can't cheat.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I know we can't cheat. So Loewe was a standout fashion brand. They have been across beauty and fashion and homewares and lifestyle a lot more recently. And the creative director, Jonathan Anderson, in my opinion is such a genius. He is just so fun and I think being at the brand for over a decade, he's taken the way of a. To new heights. Topping lists, index of the most talked about fashion brand globally. And being named one of the most innovative brands of the year by Fast Company is huge.

[Joanna Fleming]

Can I be honest?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

I didn't know the way they existed until two years ago.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay, that's fair. Yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm just not. I'm not a designer girly. I don't really shop designer brands. And the first time I saw Loewe really out there, a girl at work had a Loewe bag and I was like, well, that's a really cool bag.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And then I looked it up and I was like, holy fuck. Expensive.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You're like, is that that many zeros?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, it's really quite taken.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So I knew about Louisville. I want to say in 2017 because I had the world's coolest boss. She is still a really good friend. And she had the puzzle bag. And I tell her all the time, like, she had Margiela tabbies before I even knew what a tabby was.

[Joanna Fleming]

She's a cool girl.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

She is a cool girl. So the only reason I know about Louisville is because I was in her ecosystem of seeing that bag. But I remember being like, that is such a cool handbag. And like nothing else I'd seen.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I still think that about their designs. Like, I think they do it first and everyone else follows 100.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And honestly, that bag has. Honestly, it's gone up in value. So it's kind of like your Chanel's, like your Birkins. If you bought one four years ago, it's now increased in value so much that it's such an investment girl math piece.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, think about their logo tank. Yeah, they did the logo tank. Everybody now has a logo tank.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We've seen it with Prada. We've seen it more locally with Vic and Woods brands like that. I think they are just innovating so, so well. And cross cultural too. Because Jonathan Anderson, like some incredible moments with high profile celebrities. Like they had Daniel Craig at their fashion show and like just really cool, unexpected things. But also he was the costume designer for challenges, which Zendaya was in that I told you t that then he was selling on the website. Like, I just think they do the best job at keeping themselves relevant. Because a creative director being at a brand for 10 years is a long time totally in the world. Like if you're following any fashion account right now, you're probably like, which creative director is where right now? Because it's like playing Monopoly.

[Joanna Fleming]

But not even just in the fashion space. Like their hand wash and candle. Huge, huge, huge.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Those candles are the best gift ever. I've received little one. I've received the medium one. Like, when's my big one coming?

[Joanna Fleming]

Like, I received one. But I would like to, if either of you want to get me a.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Present, I may be asked, Santa, were you a good girl this year? I just think as well, like, like, so genius. Because yes, 70, 80 is so expensive for a hand wash. But at the end of the day that allows someone to enter into a luxury brand. It's genius. What other luxury brand can you name that you can go and buy a 70 or 80 item? Saint Laurent have taken a leaf out with like the lighters and things like that. But I think it's genius.

[Joanna Fleming]

Totally Great housewarming gift.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I read a quote by Nick Haramis for the New York Times, and I think it totally summed up the genius of Loewe. He said, no other fashion designer today blurs the line between the avant garde and the commercial as imaginatively or ruthlessly as Jonathan Anderson, the creative director of Loewe. And I totally think he has just mastered the art of the Runway, but then also made it feel really inclusive. Their personality on TikTok and socials, it's fun, it's inclusive. They take so many risks. They poke fun at celebrities. Like, I was having a good giggle going through their socials over the weekend, and I just think it's really intuitive to be able to speak to the Gen Z audience in the way that they do for a luxury brand. Obviously, it's such a high price point, but then they've done things to make it attainable. And I don't think we can forget to mention the collab that Jonathan Anderson actually did with Uniqlo. So they really, really wanted to make sure they could kind of bring their flair to more of the mass market. And I think that was a really cool partnership that they did as well. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That was for his namesake.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

His brand namesake Brain. Yes, yes, yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

I was going to say I didn't see Loewe time, I can tell you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I would have been scratching at the Uniqlo door.

[Joanna Fleming]

Now, the second most mentioned brand across fashion and beauty in our survey was. Is a little closer to home. Australian brand Dish.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Not at all surprised. Are we either?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

No, not at all.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you all own something from Dish?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Fleming]

Several things.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I actually feel like they are the definition of quiet luxury, like when it comes to affordable quiet luxury.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I think what's great about their price point too, is for someone who is a luxury shopper, it's an accessible high low for them and the quality is great. They do great designs. It's also for some people, that is their luxury. And I think they create beautiful store environments. They've totally changed the look and feel of what a store has to look like when you're going in and buying a 7080 tank.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I think everyone feels like they've got to go to a particular store and have a particular experience at that price point. But I love what they've done.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. If you've been here from our early episodes, we did actually do an entire. That was a traced, wasn't it?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

I mean, that's a really good episode to listen to if you want to understand the evolution of the brand. And they've brought all of their designs entirely in house now, which I think explains a lot about the exponential growth of the brand. They used to just be a retailer of other brands.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

As we've spoken about, like 1 teaspoon mink pink back in the day.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The ultimate rebrand.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And the brand's creative director, Lucy Henry Hicks, told Vogue earlier this year, our essentials are almost always our best sellers. And as of March this year, the brand was Projected to make $98 million by the end of the year. So, sure, they're having a lovely Christmas over at the Henry Hicks house.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

That is huge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think that's definitely a great word, Christmas party too, for the team.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I honestly think it resonates so much because they've stayed really true to their consistency and their DNA. They have become such an Australian go to brand that's like you always know what you're going to get from them, but you always feel elevated, effortless and chic. So kudos, team. I think they're doing a phenomenal job.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And I love to see an Aussie brand succeed overseas.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Exactly.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And our third and final one, which I feel so honored I get to say it, given I think it was our first ever episode. I was harping on about them, but it is Henny. So we interviewed one of Henny's founders, Nadia Bartel. It's feeling like a trip down the year's memory lane, isn't it? We're mentioning a lot of earlier episodes to go back and listen. We interviewed Nadia earlier this year and we spoke about how she built what really is a viral fashion brand now. But the Australian brand was founded in 2019, so it's only five years old.

[Joanna Fleming]

Was it only 2019?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Feels like so much longer than that.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Before the Valentine James and the Argo top.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's grown so much in recent years thanks to its kind of minimalist, scandi inspired designs. And they recently opened their second boutique store in Sydney. They've got plans for a third location. And speaking to news.com in October this year, Nadia attributed the brand's success to its non traditional approach. And I think that's so true and just sums it up so succinctly because I think think much like Dish, they've created these incredible store environments. I think their content is fantastic. Like their tick tock is great. I'm really excited to see what comes from Henny next year.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, same. I think the stores have been very pivotal for them. Yeah, I think that has really opened up the market a bit more to the people that do like to try and feel before they buy. Personally, can't relate. I'm very much an online shopper. I think maybe these results partially have to do with you, Mads, because of the way that you spruce the Valentina jeans from the moment you got in front of this microphone. I've now got two pairs, so I think you've been a very big influence in this result.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thanks, Valentina's dad. I was at a pub on Saturday at a friend's birthday and I was in the line and I said to a girl, oh, my God, those jeans look great on you. She goes, they're the Gisela Henny jeans. And I was like, oh. She goes, I really like yours. What are yours? I said, mine in the Valentina. She goes, oh, you should get these ones. I was like, I've got them in just about every color.

[Joanna Fleming]

Don't you know who I am?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I love that so much.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So you know that I literally live.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

In Henny Denim, the OG Ambassador. I honestly think, though, like, similar to Dish, they are doing such a fantastic job at just overachieving. And the cool girl model, off duty girl uniform. And every collection pairs perfectly with previous collections. It's a build upon wardrobe, which I think is really clever in this climate because everything matches back. You don't feel like you're not staying up to date with the brand when they continually repeat those bestsellers. The Valentinas, the Giselles, the Argos, they're still in fashion for the Henny girl. And I think that makes the brand doing something a little bit more clever when it comes to product mix. And when they're dropping it and how they're dropping it, it just keeps it fresh and relevant.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I tell you what I do think about Dish and Henny that I find so fascinating. I'm waiting for one of them to go hard on accessories. So Henny did just launch some belts. Belts. But what I'm so intrigued with is why they haven't gone deeper into accessories. Because, yeah, belts, it's not as broad size ranging as clothing. Like you can sort of do. You know, a small, medium. A medium, large, large, extra large. Like in your sizing. Earrings are like a one size fits all. I'm kind of surprised they haven't kind of played in some of that heaven mayhem space.

[Joanna Fleming]

Same. Now that you mention it, both of those brands are sitting comfortably in that mid price range that we've spoken about. Australian brands doing really well.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

That the US is lacking. So I think that's got to do with their success, honestly.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Maybe watch the space. I mean, listening to your interview with Nadia, she talked about the refined process and how strategic and how much they think about every decision. So who knows? Maybe it's in the pipeline.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Well, now we're going to explore the beauty brands that really made a splash this year and a bit of a dent in your wallets as well. So do we have any predictions on who our standouts might be? Mine is tower 28.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay, because I think that was.

[Joanna Fleming]

I know that glossier was the big thing at Mecca this year, but I honestly think Tower 28 was pretty close behind.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I have been getting spammed by merit, but you guys are my beauty experts.

[Joanna Fleming]

I love.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

So I'm like, maybe I'm. I don't know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Everyone loves it.

[Joanna Fleming]

They're really good. I'm wearing it now.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And you always look stunning.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I want to look like Joe when I grow up.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And Joe we trust. Like, literally should be our motto.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I feel like it has to be road beauty.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like, it has to be road.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

How can we Forget Rod Road?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Ms. Haley Bieber.

[Joanna Fleming]

Dewey.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

What is it? Dewy dumpling skin? Or is it something that is so far off? Is it not Dewy dumpling skin? Oh, my God. What is it?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It was like the glazed donut. Yeah. Skin.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

You know what?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Close enough ar the jewy dump. What was it?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I swear to God, there's someone that says the dewy dumpling. I love her.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, okay.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Sorry. Not road.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Anyway, okay, so top of the list was glossier. And if you have even a remote interest in beauty, it's very likely that you've come across this cult beauty brand, obviously launching into Mecca earlier this year. The first time we had the retail climate and space to go and touch and feel and play all of those things that used to be, you know, you had to fly to New York. And that was, you know, I travel now. And everyone had the little pink patch, but Glossier is around 10 years old, which I feel like it's become a real mainstay in beauty now.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, you know what? I'm going to eat my words, because at the time that it launched, I was like, I think it's a bit late. I think they missed the boat. But I've been pleasantly surprised by the reception to glossier Mecca. I think that hype has really sustained. Like, I was at Mecca last week, and people were flocking around the glossier section. I'm like, okay, fair enough. It's really actually sustained. And I thought it would be like a quick, you know, little flip.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And then everyone would lose interest.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I don't have anything. I thought the same, I think because I was. I sound like a pompous right now, but I was traveling to New York the last, I don't know, five, six years and I remember one of the first stores I went to and it was like the line around the corner having that in store experience and I was like, how are they going to replicate that in Mecca? But they do a fantastic job at it. I feel like the displays, the point of sale, everything feels very inclusive. They have pretty much the whole product range, I think, so it feels like you're not missing out. And they've got so many cult favorites that I think it's so great now that that's so accessible to Australians. Yeah, it's a really cool partnership and.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think they've got really strong product offering but they're also innovating in all the right ways, like Glossier. You being their best selling fragrance, obviously only fragrance they have. Great. You've got the jeans, you've got the sc. All you need now is the sarcasm just a little more. But like they've then brought out more fragrances because people are obviously loving that. And then they did the same fragrance in a body butter. Like I think their innovation makes sense. So yeah, I'm excited to see what else comes from them. 20, 25 and beyond.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, the next one on the list, surprise, surprise, it's road.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes. I love when I'm right.

[Joanna Fleming]

If you haven't heard of Road, you must have been living under a rock because I think it has been the most talked about beauty brand this year. It has to have been it tied with glossier in results. But I honestly think it has been more impactful. If you haven't heard of rd, it was founded by Hailey Bieber, influencer model. What would we call a socialite?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Just divide model.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I usually lead with model for her. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

So Road has been hugely successful this year and become a leading brand in the beauty space. And their influencer marketing strategy has been probably the biggest top tier. Yeah, I think that has been the biggest thing that has driven their growth this year. Year. And they've also got Gen Z branding savvy collaborations that have just kept coming throughout this year. We saw the viral phone case.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

So clever that we've seen several brands try and replicate since. I love when you see such a gimmicky thing like that and then everyone jumps on board because it's so Unique at the time. Remember, we're like, oh, my God, that's such a good idea. And now everyone's doing it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's genius. And you know what? Kudos to Hayley. But my hat goes off to Lauren Ratner, who is the chief Marketing officer. This is so embarrassing. I actually cold LinkedIn her. Like, LinkedIn messaged her to be like, hi, if you ever want to come on Stylish, here's a linked up. I'm desperate. Lauren, if you're listening, Lauren, if you're listening, I'm obsessed with you. Like, sickly obsessed with you. You also have tremendous style. Just go follow her. She is so chic. Anyway, Lauren, if you're listening, I love you. I love you. She is just the brains. I'm not discrediting Hayley in this. I'm sure she's just as involved. But Lauren Ratner is seriously changing the beauty game.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, there was a 232 increase in searches this year.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

W Look out data. But make her fashion. Joe is coming.

[Joanna Fleming]

Or a few of you in our DMs were saying road is always killing it. Someone else said Road has certainly had a huge impact on the beauty industry. So what are our thoughts around Road? Because my opinion, as a dermal therapist and someone that deals with skincare products every single day, it's not just their marketing strategy for me, it's their actual product.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I think one what Haley has brought to the market is a gentle range of products. These more focused on barrier support and hydration, which speaks more to the K beauty category. And I think that's why K beauty is also becoming extremely popular in Western countries.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

That Korean beauty, right?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, gotcha.

[Joanna Fleming]

Because a lot of people don't realize they have an impaired barrier, and then they remove all of their actives and they start using really gentle hydrating barrier supporting products. And they go, oh, my God, my skin looks the best it's ever looked.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Wow.

[Joanna Fleming]

And I think that's why I'm not.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Burning my face off.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. And I think that's why Road has made such an impact, because the product is actually a great product versus just being a celebrity beauty brand.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. Okay.

[Joanna Fleming]

That's my take anyway.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And I just think as well, like, the lip balm category is crazy. I feel like summer Fridays, Road and.

[Joanna Fleming]

Also being a peptide lip treatment. Yeah. Peptides huge buzzword in beauty at the moment. So I think just tying into that as well.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I honestly think that the lip tint and everything that she's doing are kind of reminding me of, like, the Lancome Juicy Tubes of our. Do you remember those or am I just really showing my eyes right now?

[Joanna Fleming]

I see a much more elevated version.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, it was like it in a bit. You had to have it in your makeup kit. Everyone at school had them and it was like the cool thing to have.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They relaunched them this year.

[Joanna Fleming]

Did that. Yeah, they're back.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay. I'm going to give them a shot, but honestly, I just. Yeah, I love everything that they're doing and I agree with both of you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think next year, if I was a guessing woman, I would say they'll probably play into collabs a little bit more. I think they've started, like, breadcrumbing a little bit. They did the product. I think it was like their glazing fluid or something with Claudia Schiffer. And then they did Matilda for Holiday, which they're probably slightly feeling uncomfortable about. But I think I'm really intrigued to see what they do there and sort of in that space. Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

I wonder if they will start shipping to Australia because they're gifting influencers here. So I'm confused by that strategy.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Follow the crumb.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm seeing some gifting go out and.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm like, no internationals love following Aussie girls. Don't you know, we're cool, fun and fancy free.

[Joanna Fleming]

But most of their audiences are going to be Australian, so you'd want to be targeting people that can actually buy.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I don't know, play on road. If you're listening, come on and talk to us. But also, like, don't stop sending to the Aussie girlies they love.

[Joanna Fleming]

No, no, we'll happily accept it. But also make yourselves available here, please. So 2024 has been a very transformative year, not only for me, but for many celebrities, style wise. Have you guys seen Saoirse Ronan's looks for the Outrun Presto?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. So her stylist is Danielle Goldberg.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's almost giving Alexa Chung some of her looks at the moment.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Do you think some of them feel a little inter. It kind of like loving that vibe that I'm coming through. Like the little, like, short mini dresses and a little bit of, like a sharp blue. You've got to see the references. But, yeah, I get the vibe.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think the press tour now has become the way to relaunch your style or re. Refine your style.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, the press tour is the modern day Runway.

[Joanna Fleming]

It is, yes, totally. So there was one clear, resounding winner in our survey of celebs who had the best Year Star Wars. Who were your picks? Firstly, before I reveal the results, Mine.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Is Tracee Ellis Ross because I'm just obsessed with her. Honestly, when I grow up, I want to be her. I think she's like the coolest person in a bit. I just love her style.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It has to be Daisy Edgar Jones. Like the way she switched the bitch is so good. I love that. I say that in the most endearing way. Switching the bitches. When you get dressed, you turn a look. Look. Oh. She started working with Danny Michelle and I was like, you two must never break up. Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

She went from nice people to cool girl.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I like that.

[Joanna Fleming]

You're on it. Daisy Edgar Jones finger is on the bus. I can't go past that look she wore to the London Twisters premiere, obviously, because it was in my palette. Vivienne Westwood brown.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, that garners everything.

[Joanna Fleming]

But also I reckon she must be getting the Jenners glam squad as well because her beauty looks hair and makeup. Makeup compared to previous years, even 2023. I'm like, she has found her.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Makeup style and her hairstyle. She had some like kind of questionable hairstyles previously and like not the right color for her. She's gone back to like her natural. The bangs around the face, it just suits her so perfectly.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

They do, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I just. It's more than just the outfit, right?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like, it's the look, it's the whole look. And I just think style wise, she's had a transformative year. There was an article in W magazine where they said she went from regular girl to it girl and I just feel like that sums it up. The bangs, the sexy sultry makeup, the head to toe Chloe look lives rent free in my head.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Honestly, that is one of the most iconic looks of the year.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Honestly. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And you close your eyes and you know the exact outfit.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But I think it's a hundred percent the Twisters press tour that did it exactly to your point. The same way Zendaya did with challenges. Like, it was just perfect.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I agree. I feel like I was on the pulse with this one now because a few eps ago, Daisy Edgar Jones is my word of the week. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, Zendaya, speaking of, she came up a lot in the results as well. I think we need to talk about her year in fashion. Obviously, she just. I mean, we've touched on her in a traced episode, haven't we?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, her and little Roach. I mean, I think she has just channeled main character energy all year. I also love to see I feel like her style's grown up a little as well. She's still doing fun, contemporary, super chic looks, but I also feel like she's looking a little bit more elevated in a certain way. Just like a few little touch points that are leaning a little bit more chic and classy. But honestly, a look that lives rent free in my mind is the Customer Lyle look, which is like an all white look. Very simplistic with a hood, chef's kiss.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I just think that Zendaya can do no wrong. I don't even think this year alone is the standout year for her. I think she's just always. She's a mailed with law Roach.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And the credit to La Roach. And I think when someone is renowned having such a great look, I think ultimately it is the trust they have with their stylist. And I think Daisy has clearly just let Dani do her thing. And now Zendaya has done the same thing. But I also love. I was watching this interview where someone was talking about she actually bought the Galliano gown for the Met Gala with her own money, and they brought it out to Galliano and he was like, where did you get this? She's like, I bought it. So she's like, very invested in fashion, and I just love that.

[Joanna Fleming]

Great fact.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I love that you sound so surprised. I promise to bring more fun facts.

[Joanna Fleming]

Please do.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But I think also she's got the talent to back it up. So I'm like, absolutely. Serve the look, the method, dressing of the challenges. Like, I just think ultimately she is an absolute talent. And then for her to give us those looks on the red carpet, like, go off, girl.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's been a big year. Beauty, fashion, brand, and cleaning.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Cleaning. There it is. I'll always find a way.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Mads, you need to try the products. Like, come on, give it a go.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Honestly, circle back.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm getting lots of dms about Glass Guard, I must say. So there is some interest the way.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That Arnik had chewed my absolute ear off for five minutes, five entire minutes on Glass Guard at the Christmas party, to the point that I actually said, I'll just buy it. Fine, I'll buy it.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I honestly wish I remembered this. It was a sign of a very good night.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That is all for this week's episode of Stylish. And that is all for this year of Stylish, which feels so wild to say so I think from all of us, I do really just want to say a heartfelt thank you for listening. For those of you who we see when we're out walking our dogs or Annika's talking about Glass Guard at the wine bar or Joe's in a sun hat and you stop us and tell us how much you love Stylish. It's not possible without the shameless media team. It's not possible without you, our lovely listeners. So, so I think just a deep, heartfelt thank you for letting us kind of fumble our way through this as we were learning and trying and being brave and transformative and progressive I think is the word I'm looking for there. But of course, thank you to you both too. It's been an absolute pleasure to spend this year with you and hang out every Monday night.

[Joanna Fleming]

And you Mads.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And remember, if you want to drop us an email or tell us your word of the year, you can at style-ishamelessmedia.com ht or you can slide into our DMS over at style underscore ish au and I said thank you. But Lucy, Head of podcast removed all the way from the UK to come and do this job. You were also very brave this year. We love you. And we love you, Kate. Emma Burke, our senior podcast producer who is not here. She's enjoying herself in New Zealand. But we will see you in the new year after we have a little break.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And we'll keep having fun.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Can't wait.

[Joanna Fleming]

See you in the new year.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And cleaning.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay, let's leave glass guard in 2024. We'll find something.

[Joanna Fleming]

I will bounce.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Love you guys.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Bye. And Lip Tides in.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri Land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Hey guys, it's Annabelle here. Are you struggling this summer because all of your favorite shows are on break? Well, fear not, because our recently launched interview show, Inherited is working right through the summer break. Yep, that means fresh interviews every single week. If you've not listened to an episode of Inherited, we ask our guests for the recipes, rules, relics and rituals that have shaped who they are today. My favorite interview so far was definitely with Lucy Jackson because of so many reasons, but mainly because of the way she opened up about heartbreak in all forms. Whether that's the aftermath of being cheated on, ending a 13 year relationship, or how situationship breakups are arguably the hardest. Here's a snippet.

[Lucy Jackson]

I was with my same boyfriend from like 17 to 31 and when we broke up, any bad things that happened after that with boys or situationships or whatever, I was so utterly mentally shocked. I was just used to having a really great partner for years and years and years. So when things would happen, I did not know that this is what people could do to each other. But I built up a resilience really quickly and then, yeah, then just got cheated on. I was kinda like, oh whatever.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Search inherited on any of your favorite podcast apps and get listening. Your summer road trip is all sorted.