Myth-busting 7 hair ‘rules’

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Episode Summary Title: Myth-busting 7 Hair ‘Rules’
Host/Author: Shameless Media
Release Date: April 1, 2025
Description: Style-ish is the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty.

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Introduction

In this special episode of Style-ish, host Madison Sullivan Thorpe, along with co-hosts Joanna Fleming and Rhiannon Joyce (affectionately known as Riri), delve deep into the world of hair care by debunking seven common hair myths. Bringing in expert opinions from renowned hairdressers Renee Dolan and Mr. D, the trio aims to provide listeners with evidence-based insights to enhance their hair care routines.

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Myth 1: You Should Never Brush Wet Hair

Discussion: The episode kicks off with a heated debate on whether brushing wet hair is detrimental. While some advocate against it, others swear by the practice.

Expert Insights:

• Renee Dolan (Salon Manager, Melbourne Salon Bob):

  "If you have straight or wavy hair, combing with a wide-tooth comb is best, as it puts less tension on the hair." [13:37]

• Mr. D (Founder, Hair Salon Delilah):

  "When it comes to curly hair, brushing wet can be beneficial as it preserves the curl pattern and reduces friction." [14:05]

Host Experiences: Riri shares her routine involving leave-in treatments and a Dyson hair dryer, while Joanna emphasizes the importance of using the right tools to minimize damage.

Notable Quote:
Joanna Fleming reflects, "If you're going to comb your hair in the shower, do it while your conditioner is in and use the wide-tooth comb to glide through easily." [15:46]

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Myth 2: Hair Vitamins Are Essential for Growth

Discussion: The conversation shifts to the booming market of hair growth supplements and their effectiveness.

Expert Insights: Joanna references a New York Times article highlighting the lack of unbiased research supporting the efficacy of hair vitamins. Dr. Torfik points out potential biases in studies funded by supplement companies.

Host Experiences:

• Riri:

  "I take a combination of vitamins including zinc, iron, and biotin, which I believe have improved my hair, skin, and energy levels." [19:19]

• Madison:

  "I do not take specific hair supplements, as I believe they promote hair growth indiscriminately. Instead, I focus on stress management through other supplements." [20:20]

Conclusion: While some anecdotal evidence suggests benefits, there's no concrete scientific proof that hair vitamins are a miracle solution. Emphasis is placed on maintaining a balanced diet and consulting professionals for hair concerns.

Notable Quote:
Riri states, "Brands invest in research to support their claims, but there's always a level of bias you have to consider." [22:19]

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Myth 3: Everyone Has a Terminal Hair Length

Discussion: The trio explores the concept of terminal hair length—the maximum length one's hair can grow before it stops or destabilizes.

Expert Insights:

• Renee Dolan:

  "Terminal length is the point where hair growth naturally ceases or slows, influenced by genetics." [25:27]

• Mr. D:

  "The life cycle of hair shortens with age, affecting terminal length." [25:55]

Host Experiences: Joanna boasts about her hair growing down to her bum, while Riri shares challenges in maintaining hair health beyond her perceived terminal length, exacerbated by frequent use of heat tools.

Conclusion: Terminal hair length varies individually, governed primarily by genetics and hair care practices. Beyond this length, maintaining hair health becomes challenging.

Notable Quote:
Madison reflects, "I think if I wanted to grow mine to my ankles, it'd go really." [24:19]

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Myth 4: You Need to Invest in an Expensive Hairbrush

Discussion: The debate centers on whether costly hairbrushes significantly outperform their cheaper counterparts.

Expert Insights:

• Renee Dolan:

  "Expensive brushes like Mason Pearson can withstand years of use, but there are affordable options with soft bristles that work effectively." [29:25];

• Mr. D:

  "Opt for brushes with soft bristles, such as a $20 wet brush. High-end brushes like YS Park Luster are great for curly hair without causing damage." [29:49]

Host Experiences: Riri showcases her $250 Labon Brush, a gift from a friend, highlighting its role in her styling routine. Joanna shares a nostalgic story of a hand-painted brush from her childhood that lasted 20 years.

Conclusion: While high-end brushes offer durability and specialized features, many affordable brushes provide excellent results. The choice depends on individual hair types and personal preferences.

Notable Quote:
Joanna reminisces, "My auntie gave me this hand-painted hairbrush that lasted until I was 27. It truly stood the test of time." [31:37]

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Myth 5: Slick Back Buns Are Destroying Your Hair

Discussion: The slick back bun, a trendy hairstyle, is scrutinized for potential damage to hair follicles and overall hair health.

Expert Insights:

• Renee Dolan:

  "Constant friction and tension from slick back buns can strain hair follicles, though some hair types are more resilient." [37:13]

• Mr. D:

  "Any stress on the hair, including tight styling, contributes to breakage and affects curl elasticity." [37:20]

Host Experiences: Both Joanna and Madison admit to regularly sporting slick back buns despite knowing the potential damage. They discuss strategies like using soft brushes and avoiding harsh elastics to mitigate harm.

Conclusion: While slick back buns can cause hair damage over time, proper techniques and gentle styling products can reduce their impact. Listeners are encouraged to balance style with hair health.

Notable Quote:
Joanna advises, "If you use a slick back bun, incorporate scalp scrubs and clarifying shampoos to maintain scalp health." [39:29]

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Myth 6: You’ll Fry Your Hair If You Don’t Use Heat Protectant

Discussion: The necessity and effectiveness of heat protectants in preventing hair damage from styling tools are examined.

Expert Insights:

• Daniel Eldridge (Chemistry Lecturer):

  "Heat protectants create a coating that delays heat penetration, similar to an oven mitt, thereby reducing damage." [41:42]

Host Experiences: Joanna emphasizes her routine of always using a heat protectant, while Madison admits she rarely uses one, focusing instead on overall hair health through other means.

Conclusion: Heat protectants play a significant role in minimizing damage from styling tools, although the best protection is to limit heat usage. Selecting appropriate protectant products tailored to one's hair type enhances their efficacy.

Notable Quote:
Daniel explains, "The only way to truly prevent heat damage is to avoid heated styling tools altogether, akin to wearing sunscreen when exposed to the sun." [41:42]

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Myth 7: Supermarket Hair Care Will Do Long-Term Damage to My Hair

Discussion: The final myth explores whether salon-exclusive hair care products are superior to supermarket alternatives in preventing long-term hair damage.

Expert Insights:

• Dr. Michelle Wong (Lab Muffin Beauty Science):

  "The performance of professional and drugstore shampoos and conditioners largely overlaps. Price differences often stem from marketing rather than ingredient quality." [46:10]

Host Experiences: Madison discusses her preference for salon brands like Kérastase and Kevin Murphy, attributing her access to quality products to working in the beauty industry. Joanna shares her extensive use of high-end brands, while Riri balances salon products with occasional use of supermarket brands based on personal needs.

Conclusion: The effectiveness of hair care products depends more on personal hair type and specific needs than on whether they are salon-exclusive or available in supermarkets. Consumers are advised to choose products that work best for their hair, regardless of price or brand origin.

Notable Quote:
Dr. Michelle Wong highlights, "There's no inherent quality difference in sulfates or silicones between salon and drugstore products. It's more about finding what works for your hair." [46:10]

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Conclusion

The Style-ish team successfully navigates through seven prevalent hair myths, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of hair care practices. By integrating expert opinions and personal experiences, they empower their audience to make informed decisions tailored to their individual hair types and lifestyles.

Key Takeaways:

• Brushing wet hair is conditional based on hair type; using the right tools is crucial.
• Hair vitamins may offer benefits, but maintaining a balanced diet and consulting professionals remains paramount.
• Terminal hair length varies, influenced by genetics and hair care habits.
• Expensive hairbrushes aren’t necessarily superior; functionality and care are more important.
• Slick back buns can cause damage, but proper techniques can mitigate risks.
• Heat protectants are beneficial but should complement reduced heat usage.
• Both salon and supermarket hair care products can be effective; personal preference and hair type should guide choices.

Notable Closing Quote:
Madison sums it up, "We've enjoyed busting these myths just as much as chatting with Renee and Mr. D. Remember to find what works best for your hair and prioritize its health." [54:15]

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Thank You to Our Sponsors:
While sponsored segments were part of the episode, this summary focused solely on the content discussions surrounding hair care myths.

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Stay Connected:
Listeners are encouraged to share their own hair care routines and product favorites via email at [e-mail] or through direct messages on Style-ish’s social media platforms.

Transcript

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Foreign. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Frank Green. Bring the style, bring the attitude, bring it with you. Shop the limited edition color [e-mail] this is stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co hosts are Joanna Fleming and everyone's favorite fill in bad girl, Riri.

[Joanna Fleming]

Hello.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hi. Also known as Rhiannon Joyce, head of business development here at Shameless Form Media.

[Joanna Fleming]

How cruel are we making Ri co host this podcast with us the Monday after her own hens?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Guys, bear with me. I sound extra sexy, extra salty today. My voice is a little bit shot, but I think it's still okay.

[Joanna Fleming]

It is great.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You sound sexy and husky.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Thank you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And maybe I'm. I was also there and might also have some explaining to you about my voice. My barista even made a comment on it this morning.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I don't think yours is that bad.

[Joanna Fleming]

Ray, I need to know what your playlists were because I saw you holding up a little card on your stories of a like, QR code.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes. So famously, our DJ had QR codes around the house, at my house, where I hosted the Hens, where you could submit song requests. Didn't need to submit song requests because we had two perfectly curated playlists. The first was one my partner Louis actually curated, and he is excellent at making playlists. Historically, he. And famously, he made my 30th birthday playlist, which has become one of the most popular playlists. We actually recommended it on the Shameless podcast Recrap. It has like 700 saves.

[Joanna Fleming]

Really?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Great, Louis. I would like that, given I'm turning 30.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's really good.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's such a compliment to be told you're good at playlists.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And what he does is he will phase the music to the night and how it escalates. So as the night goes on, the music starts to escalate. He's very, very good at it. So he did my actual playlist for the lunch. So that's one separate playlist. The second playlist, less formal. 10 times more bangers in my. No cohesion. No strategy whatsoever. It was every man and their dog in there dumping whatever song they wanted. And might I add, I think it was a huge success. We were dancing for five hours.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay, so we're gonna need to put the name of those playlists.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

In the episode notes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I will link them in the show notes. They're. Honestly, if you're looking to just have a really good girls night, good boogie. The second Playlist in particular, which is titled Club Riri.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Appropriately named.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Appropriately named.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I mean, also just like, shout out to the DJ whose name was Peter Tran.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm a Tran.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like, honestly, Peter Tran, if you're single, hit me up. His, like, talent.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Phenomenal.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So much so that when the smoke alarm went off, because we hit the smoke machine button so many times, because he just let us. He played it's getting hot in here.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

He lent it to the moment we were waving.

[Joanna Fleming]

And you have to as a dj.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh my gosh. We had literally the whole party stopped waving pillows. And he's committed to the cause. Playing it's getting hot in here. Yeah, it was. Honestly, I think we have video footage of that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I think so.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Anyway, all in all, it was an incredible night. The playlists are really good, Joe, so I'll make sure you get your hands on them. And the wider stylish community dog.

[Joanna Fleming]

So that's your informal swap today.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That is my informal swap. What is your formal swap?

[Joanna Fleming]

My formal swap today, before we jump into the episode, is a noo. Nooo wreck.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We haven't spoken about noonoos for so long.

[Joanna Fleming]

I know. And I got a new set of Noo News the other day and I was like, oh, I've got to talk about this because I've worn them three times since I got them last week. It is the nimble me time set. I obviously have a shade of brown. I think the actual shade is called brown pepper Mal. I think so. Incredibly cozy and comfortable. Perfect length as well, for a kind of average height person. I'm five six, can't relate. And either they're really short on me and it's like an awkward length or they're miles too long.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

So it's like perfect for the average height, I think. So that would be my formal wreck.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So nimble.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Nimble me time. Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I didn't realize they were branching out.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I actually already had this set.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Right.

[Joanna Fleming]

In a different color from last year.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Cool.

[Joanna Fleming]

But I think they've lengthened the pants, which I like. Yeah. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Good for you.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. Thank you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Less good for me. Good for you. For those who maybe don't know what new news are, like, we spoke about.

[Joanna Fleming]

It like it was like one of our first episodes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like maybe the first ever or second ever episode. Noo news. Noo news is a made up word. And noo news are your comfies. Like those. Not like your dirtiest, grottiest thing, but like the comfy clothes you put on when you come home.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Like you'd be comfortable someone seeing you in them.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I think I might have said something like a boy could come over and you'd be in your newness and you'd be a bit cute, you know? So there you go. Look out.

[Joanna Fleming]

Adrian, do you have a formal swap for us today, man?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I do have a formal swap. Mine's actually just Benroi in general.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I know I've spoken about them a lot in their marketing tactics and I was telling you both off mic that I went in the other day and bought a couple of pieces, but I feel like I always think of them and we spoke about it as like those summer go tos. Like in my mind it's like lounge skirts and linen and lightweight. But I went in, I got some great cardigans, I got a cashmere knit and I bought this long sleeve and raised it. I love this little tomboy look. I was like, not sure that was what I was going for, but let's leave the hell in.

[Joanna Fleming]

Cool.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And the loafers, it's a great pairing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Thank you. I've got my little boat shoes on. Those who are listening. I did find the ones, but yeah, I love what they're doing and I feel like they've nailed that kind of like trans seasonal, easy. Just like wardrobe. Don't have to think about it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's not the most exciting thing you'll purchase, but it'll sit on top of like your jeans and you'll just grab.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It twice a week. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was like, great.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

They're usually my go to for basics. I've singlets from Benroi. I like the thicker cut.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

They just really fitted and nice.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And the knit quality was really nice. Like I was really impressed and I think for the price point, like, it's hard to kind of get quality. The knitted cardigan that I bought was like a double zip, was 200. Okay. And the cashmere I think was 280 or 300. I mean, it's pretty reasonable.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Which can range upwards of, you know, $500 plus. I bet that's pretty good.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Pretty good. Sounds thrilled. Anyway, enough about DJs Noo News and Fenroy.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well rounded works there.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We know that hair is like a super big topic of conversation at the moment. And for many of us, definitely me. Whether or not I'm having a good hair day can have a really tangible impact on my state of mind or mood. I should say. With this in mind, today is a special hair focused episode where with the help of two special guest hairdressers, we prove or disprove eight common hair myths. I'm so excited for this. I'm a bit scared because my mum is a hairdresser and constantly tells me, well, was a hairdresser.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

She will not come near me. She says I'm the worst person she ever had to cut their hair. But I just think I have no idea what I'm doing with my hair and it kills her.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I just love a good myth busting sort of episode.

[Joanna Fleming]

I just think this is the first time we've done a full beauty dedicated episode. It is in our history.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's your time to shine, Jo.

[Joanna Fleming]

Here we go. I actually do not know a lot about hair. I've done so many hair interviews in my time, so I love this. I'm ready to roll.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You are ready. You were born ready. I was and I've got no fucking idea. With all this in mind, it's no wonder. Many of us naturally have a complex relationship with our hair. We want it to look our best, whatever that means to each of us. But then there's wildly varying advice and I think it's safe to say a very wide range of product on the market. It's really hard to know what to actually believe and what to take with a grain of salt, if you will. So today we're going to debunk seven of the most common hair myths from whether hair vitamins actually make your hair grow or what constantly slicking your hair down does for your hair health. No looking at you, Rachoice.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I want to know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thankfully, today we have enlisted the help of some experts because even though Jo has done many of these interviews, we thought we'd call in two hairdressers to disprove the most common ones or prove them. Right. As part of the research of this ep, we interviewed two people. We interviewed Renee Dolan, the salon manager of Melbourne Salon Bob, an expert in straight and wavy hair, and Mr. D, the founder of hair salon Delilah. They are an expert in curly hair. So we've got the breadth covered. But before we dive into the first myth, how would you two describe your relationship with your hair?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's been a joke.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think in all of our hair, though, I think we have a very similar hair type.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, no, I don't think so.

[Joanna Fleming]

No, no.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Jose seen re caught in the rain.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Sauvage. I don't know. I think, Jo, maybe for face value, it looks like we have similar hair types, but I think my hair is actually quite frizzy.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I have.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I said what I said.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I think it does react to the weather okay. A lot.

[Joanna Fleming]

I've never seen your hair frizzy.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Ye. It was frizzy on Saturday after a lot of dancing. But, yeah, I would say my hair naturally is not curly, but wavy and heavy and frizzy.

[Joanna Fleming]

Right?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. So I'm very committed to the tools to be able to get more of a straight sort of glossy look. And it's probably one of the reasons why I don't wear my hair out a lot because I find it a big challenge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I actually love your natural curl, though.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I know the wave.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like, I think you just look like a sexy beach bombshell.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I do not feel that way. And I think that comes back. Coming back to your question, my relationship with my hair has never been, like, super positive. I've always found it really hard to nail a look or feel like 100% confident with my hair. That's probably why I always wear it up, to be honest.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think a lot of people feel that way. Yeah, you wouldn't be alone with that. Mads, how would you describe your hair?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It has definitely always been a security blanket for me. I think growing up as a little girl, I had naturally dead straight, dark hair. And so, like, mum was a hairdresser, so it was always, like, beautifully, like, braided or in piggytails and things like that. So it was always the first thing anyone ever complimented was like, oh, she has such beautiful hair. But then when I was kind of in my 20s, one random Saturday, I went into Joey Scandizo to go and get a haircut. It's a salon here in Melbourne. And he was like, the usual. And I just felt really rebellious, and I didn't like the fact that I seemed so predictable. So I said, no, I'm actually looking at the shoulders. And I walked out and I was like, what have I done? My mom was like, you look like you're going to parent teacher interview as the parent. And I was like, maybe 23 at the time.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

We've all had a moment.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like, we've all had a moment. And I think that's when I knew I was always going to be a long hair girly.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay. That's deterred me from chopping my hair after the wedding then.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Whereas I think now, like, I don't know, I have lots of fun with my hair. I do the slick back bun. I've, like, really embrace, like, the big blowout. I don't know. I think it's probably the part that I enjoy now playing with because it feels like I can, I don't know, judge myself up, feel a little bit sexy or, like, flirty and.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, I would say you're great with your hairstyles. Like, you really mix it up a lot.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, thanks, Riri.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You're welcome.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. The half up, half down I've embraced recently as well. But every time I do it, I'm looking at jokes. She's got it now. I do think of that era of Ariana Grande where she loved the half up, half down.

[Joanna Fleming]

Same.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I just want to play one less problem.

[Joanna Fleming]

You can't overdo it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No, yeah. No. Balance is key.

[Joanna Fleming]

So would you say your hair is fine but you have a lot of it? Because that's what it looks like to me.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And that's exactly how I describe my hair. Because most hairdressers will grab my hair and be like, whoa, okay, there's a lot more here than I thought there was, to be fair. That's so fine and flat. Yeah, yeah. So I would say we all have that fine kind of hair type, but we have a lot of. A lot more hair than it looks like.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We have a lot of it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

How's your relationship with your hair?

[Joanna Fleming]

I mean, I've always been very bored by my hair because it can't get volume. Every hairdresser thinks they can give me a bouncy blow wave. And then we get to the end of it, I'm like, yeah, no, I told you that it's actually not possible. Everyone thinks that I'm not using the airwrap. Right. I'm telling you, I know how to use an airwrap so it drops perfectly. Yeah. I need, like the highest possible heat in my hair for it to hold anything. And it's just not possible to get volume in my hair. It doesn't matter how many layers I have. It doesn't matter what products I use. It's just not capable of holding volume.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I think we are similar then. The only difference for me is the elements will just immediately make my hair grow.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Okay. That doesn't happen to me.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But not in like a sex like way. It's in a hagrid way.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's why I'm laughing, because when Ray and I went to Glamour on the Grid, we got caught in the rain and I was like, I'm going to look like a wet rat. Like, my hair will go dead straight. Like I have had. I don't think it was probably until I was 27 that I got a haircut that could actually hold anybody. Great. I only had to wait 27 years, love.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

All right. I feel like we should start getting into the myth busting because I'm really.

[Joanna Fleming]

Keen to not jump in.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What's true, what's not, who's taking it away?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay, so myth number one is you should never brush wet hair. Oh, I feel so seen by this.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What are you supposed to do then?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Let's find out. So the first one definitely has people divided because some people say never brush hair when it's wet, while others swear by brushing it or combing it post shower. So what do the actual hairdressers have to say? For Renee, there's only one correct answer. She says if you have straight or wavy hair, combing with a wide tooth comb is best, as it puts less tension on the hair.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But as is often the case, there can be a different answer for curly or textured hair. And so while a wide tooth comb will still work, brushing curly hair when it's wet can actually be beneficial as it preserves the curl pattern and reduces friction. Mr. D says that whatever you use on your curls will be okay as long as you're not too rough to avoid damage and breakage. Being gentle with curly hair is key, but I'm curious to either of you brush or comb your hair post shower.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I. I do. I don't. I'm trying to think. I actually comb my hair, but I always use a leave in treatment because I feel like the elements get the best of me. And to minimize the frizz, I'll go in with the leave in, and then I usually comb, and then I'll go in with a round brush. When I'm drying my hair, I have a Dyson hair dryer. Yeah, I always do like that. Little guys. You can't see me, but I'm ruffling my head with my fingers. First try and get it a little bit Dr. And then I'll go in with my round brush. So I don't know if that's okay, but that's what I do.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay. So you go straight from wet to blow drying.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Pretty much.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. Is that naughty?

[Joanna Fleming]

It's probably okay, I reckon.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

The reason that they say you shouldn't comb it while it's wet is because your hair stretches more, and so it can potentially cause more damage to it from doing that. But the experts that I've spoken to previously have said if you're going to comb your hair in the shower, do it while your conditioner's in and use the wide tooth comb so that it can glide through the Hair easier. It's not going to be on. Like you're not raw dogging it, you know, like freshly rinsed hair, which is usually really, like, you know, naughty. Yeah. And it pulls a lot. And so that's why I don't do it when my hair is wet, because my hair gets so knotty when it's wet. I usually have to brush my own hair at the basin at a hair salon because it's that bad really. So I swear by like tangle teasers, they're great for getting out knots and things on, you know, straight or like fine hair that really gets knotted quite easily. But I. I mean, I think it's fine if you're doing it in the right way. Like you've got to leave in. In if you've got a detangler in. If you're taking care of it while you're brushing it, you're not ripping, you know, a fine tooth comb through it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I don't really go straight from the root down. So. Yeah, I think that usually reducing the.

[Joanna Fleming]

Tension in that way.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. Yeah, that helps me.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I do the same. But I lose so much hair. Like I shed really badly. It's definitely correlated to stress levels as well.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But I can be in the shower, like, pulling it out. So I'll do a wide tooth comb in the shower. But then I've got conditioner in.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But then I've got. When I bought my Dyson hair dryer, which was my first ever Dyson hair tool purchase, it came with this big paddle brush and I rid with that paddle brush and I get out because I'm like. It's like shed city. So I'm like, let's get rid of the first layer before we go in with the hair tools or let it air dry.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I just use my air straight. Straight on wet hair.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I am tempted to buy the air straight. And you've been using it for a while.

[Joanna Fleming]

Ages.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I remember you recommended it on Instagram.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's so good. It's so good, Rae. Really, you need it. I'm sorry. I trialled it for get it on sale.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Had to cut.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I trialled it for Dyson. We did a sponsored video and this in no way is sponsored. I'm just being very honest and transparent. We did a sponsored video trialing it and I loved it in. I was in the office and I came out from the gym and I was like, oh, I do feel like I need one of these.

[Joanna Fleming]

I use it every single time I wash my hair.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Maybe I'll get it as a wedding gift. Louis just opens it and he's like, the hell is this, Johnson? Okay, myth number two. Jo, you're up.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. Okay, this one is on hair vitamins and whether or not they're integral to hair growth. So this is a pretty hotly debated hair myth. Do they actually do anything, these hair vitamins? So it feels like every other week there is a hair vitamin brand on the market and hair growth is big business. This is something I get asked about all the time is postpartum hair loss. I probably lost half my hair when I came off the pill, so I can very much relate to that type of temporary hair loss. But the global hair growth supplement market size is estimated to reach 1.92 billion USD by 2030. That is a massive number. So do these hair growth vitamins and supplements Work? A feature on the New York Times late last year written by Melinda Wenner Moyer spoke to several dermatologists and explored whether they actually have an impact or not. Here are some quotes from Melinda Little. Peer reviewed research has been conducted on these supplements. Academic researchers have studied some of their individual ingredients, but the case studies that have analyzed the effectiveness of popular hair loss supplements have been funded by the companies that market them. In certain cases, the researchers involved worked for the company too. Dr. Torfik, one of the dermatologists interviewed for the article, said the studies conducted for hair vitamin companies always have a potential bias and that it's still not well understood what the ingredients in these supplements actually do. While it's difficult to outright prove that hair supplements promote hair growth anecdotally, it's also hard to argue with the people that said they've noticed a difference. Like I always say to people, I've noticed a difference when I'm on collagen regularly. And like there's not a heap of data to support that collagen does anything, but every time I'm consistent with it, my nails are better, my skin's better, my hair's better. Especially what Mr. D has seen firsthand in the salon chair seems to back these anecdotal comments as well. He's seen clients who have taken hair, skin and nail supplements supplements and had impressive results when it comes to their hair health. But while hair vitamins might provide some results, there's currently no hard evidence that they absolutely will. So focusing on a balanced, healthy diet and reaching out to a hair care professional or dermatologist if you do have concerns about hair loss is probably the better course of action than buying a whole heap of hair supplements. And hoping they work miracles. But do you guys take any hair vitamins to start with?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I do not specifically hair vitamins, but I take a lot of vitamins that I know. The ingredients impact quality, as you said, Jo, your hair, your nails, your skin. So I also drink AG1, which I know you drink as well, Mads, but gang, gang, gang. I'm not going to lie, guys. This is my list of vitamins. Zinc, iron, active vitamin B, biotin and daily probiotic. I had to find there are so many, but I will say anecdotally, I think they have helped a lot. Not just with my hair, but my skin and my overall energy levels. And I'm a big believer in the placebo and if it works for me, then I'm going to keep doing it. I do agree that you should obviously advise a professional as well and there's no serious science to back it, but that's my personal experience and I found it worked for me, particularly when I came off the pill and I had similar hair loss issues. I also had a lot of issues with my skin and it's just formed part of my routine and helped me get that confidence back and just find a really nice process that works for me.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What about you guys?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, no, definitely not taking a hair supplement. As you can probably tell by the color of the hair on my head. I've spent most of my life trying to remove the hair on my body and that's my thing. I'm like, when people are like so weird, like my arm hair got longer or darker and I'm like, yes, the supplement doesn't know just to travel to the hair on your head. It is going to, if it's going to work, is going to promote all hair growth. Yeah. It's not, it's not a miracle drug. So, no. But as you mentioned, Ray, I do take AG1. But yeah, for me I think it's more about my stress management. So vitamins that help me deal with that. Because as I said, hair loss for me is associated with my stress levels. So I'm more playing in that space, like my magnesium to help me sleep at night and those kinds of things.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. And it's always interesting hearing question marks around the internal research that a lot of companies do to advertise and to market their products. Because at the end of the day, there isn't an industry wide or unbiased study proving the effectiveness of hair vitamins. But based on my personal experience, I'm going to keep taking them, call it a placebo or not. I find them helpful. Brands do invest in independent and internal research to support claims, but these don't carry the same weight as external unbiased studies. Even third party research, whilst providing objective insights, is still influenced by the curated narrative. And as someone who works in market research and branding, we invest a lot of money in trying to understand audiences. And at the end of the day, you're still trying to curate a narrative and a hypothesis. So whether or not you're testing exposed or unexposed audiences, which are essentially an exposed audience, is someone who's seen this product or a brand or something that you're trying to understand more about, or an unexposed is the assumption that they haven't, so they're not familiar with your brand at all. There is still a level of bias when it comes to producing that research, so I think that just has to go on the record as well when you're evaluating those internal research studies and the weight that they hold.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Question do you style your outfits with your Frank Green reusable bottle or coffee cup or is that just us? In all honesty, though, we never thought we'd consider our drink bottle as a fashion accessory, but here we are. And while they've always been stylish and sustainable, Frank Green is now encouraging us to make a statement with their new limited edition color range. There's Peppermint, Bubblegum Blast, Toffee and Blue Lagoon. I personally love the toffee. It's very chic, but I can see you guys loving the bubblegum blast. Or you could mix and match to suit your vibe or daily outfit. So much fun. Frank Green is giving a whole new meaning to style while reminding us all of the importance of sustainability. Bring your style, bring your attitude, bring your reusable bottle or cup and leave single use behind. The new color range is ready to [e-mail] but only for a limited time. Thank you so much to Frank Green for making this episode as stylish.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Moving on to myth number three. Everyone has a terminal hair length. So I want to start this myth off with a question for each of you. What's the longest length you've ever had your hair? And do you think that's the longest it would ever be able to grow?

[Joanna Fleming]

My hair can grow down to my bum.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Really?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Have you had it there before?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Retweet.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I was going to try to be like quite long right now.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Yours is quite long right now.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I'm due for a haircut.

[Joanna Fleming]

Mine used to be a lot longer than it is. Now, like, I chopped my hair a couple of years ago.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And I'm kind of a little bit growing up for the wedding.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. I'm. I'm growing mine for the wedding as well because it is easier. I'm doing an upto.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Wow.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And it is easier when you have a bit more hair.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's the same reason as me.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, Fair enough. Fair enough.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I honestly think if I wanted to grow mine to my ankles, it'd go really.

[Joanna Fleming]

I reckon I could get mine longer as well if I really wanted to.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I know people will hate me for that because I know that there are people out there. Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

We're so smug being on. Our hair just grows.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay. So there is actually such a thing as terminal hair length, which is basically the longest your hair can possibly grow. According to Renee, terminal length is the point where our hair growth naturally ceases or slows down and is then replaced by new growth from the same follicle. So it's the maximum length a certain type of hair will grow before it stops. This can also be a genetic thing, too. So, guys, if you're not like Mads or Joe, and it can grow down to your bum, don't feel too hard on yourself. It's not your fault. It's your parents. No. So Mr. D also describes it as the point at which your hair is happy, thick and healthy. And if you try to grow it past this length, issues start to occur. He said, everyone has a different set point. Some people can grow their hair to their waist. Our girl is right here. While others can only grow it to their shoulders. That's me. I feel like my terminal hair length is honestly above my collarbone. And when my hair is the healthiest and the thickest, it is generally at a shorter lob sort of length.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I am trying to grow my hair out at the moment, and I do get a lot of comments when I wear my hair out and people like, oh, my God, it looks so good. I love it. But in internally, for me, I'm like, oh, I feel like I've passed that length and it's starting to get a bit stringy.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Or the length. Like, I lose a lot of that fullness and it starts to get a bit ruddy.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I think that's important to clarify. It's not that you can't grow your hair any longer. It's that it just starts to lose its health when you continue to grow past your terminal hair length.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you feel like. Because what I notice, for me Is that it's the waning at the bottom, like it starts to, like, thin?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Is that what you feel like happens when it goes past what you perceive to be your terminal hair length?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes. And I think I do use a lot of heat tools. I do use the Dyson hair dryer, and I have a GHD straightener. And I would say I straighten my hair probably every second day.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So I also think that can contributes to my hair quality and damage. So once it gets to a certain length, it makes it hard for me to be able to maintain that when I'm doing using those tools on such a high rotation.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I don't use a lot of heat tools, so I think that works in my favor. I do dry my hair every single time I wash it, but I don't always then heat style it continuously. After that. I might do like one style and then I just slick it back the day after, which is probably worse for it. But I've actually interviewed a trichologist called Kay Fitzgerald a number of times.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Can you explain to me what a trichologist is?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. So they specialize in conditions of the hair and scalp.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay.

[Joanna Fleming]

So, for example, they might look into something like telogen effluvium, which is exactly what I was talking about before, which is that temporary hair loss that occurs after coming off medication, after birth. Like all of these kinds of temporary hair loss where your body kind of goes into shock from something. It can be after sickness as well. A lot of people got it post Covid, and that is temporary and it does recover. But I spoke to her at length about that when I was going through it, because I was like, oh, my God, where's all my hair? Because it does. It forms part of your identity. And until something's happening to your hair, you don't realize how much it does impact your confidence. It really is, I think, especially for women, it's. It's a huge factor, I think. So I've interviewed Kay a number of times, and she told me that on average, our hair grows a centimeter per month in someone that is, like, relatively young and healthy. And then that declines as we age. And so, like, that will slow down, or with ill health, that might slow down. And so you might not get that one centimeter anymore. And so it takes a lot longer to grow your hair than maybe it did previously. And then she also said that the life cycle of the hair is shortened as we age, which affects your terminal hair length, which I thought was an interesting fact. Like, as we get older it's just harder to get your hair to the same length that you used to be able to without it kind of looking ratty.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

As you used before.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Isn't aging so great?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The skin cells slow down.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And she confirmed, like, not everyone can grow their hair down to their bum. It's just not a thing that everybody can do. And it's genetics that determines that. So, yes, again, blame your parents for the reason why you can't have mum mad than it doesn't necessarily break at that point. It just might shed once it gets to that point. It won't necessarily just be like looking damaged. You might just start to shed as you get to that length. And so you're just not accumulating all of that hair that you would be if you were mealmads.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, There you go. Well, myth number four is feeling really seen by this one. Myth number four is you need to invest in an expensive hairbrush. So we're often told that investing in an expensive hairbrush is a must for your hair to look its best. But what we wanted to know is, is this actually the case? Renee said that it depends on what you're using it for. So for twisting or for a bouncy blow wave, you need a brush that's made to glide and not become tangled. Cheaper brushes are often made out of a type of plastic that can catch or cause hair to break. So while investing in a more expensive hairbrush might mean it's made out of longer lasting materials, just think of those people who say they've owned their Mason Pearson for 10 plus years.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

My sister.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Guilty. And can withstand years of regular use and cleaning. There are still an array of cheaper brushes that do offer great results. Mr. D believes that investing in an expensive hairbrush isn't necessary and says to opt in for something with soft bristles, like a $20 wet brush. If you're keen to invest in a more bougie option, he recommends the YS park luster brush, which I'd actually never heard of.

[Joanna Fleming]

But they have beautiful brushes, but apparently.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That will detangle curly hair and when used properly, maintains the curl integrity as well. So the experts were a little bit divided on this, which I kind of loved because I feel like that's the best part about myth busting. What do you both think and do either of you have? I'm gonna go ahead and call an overpriced hairbrush.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Do you?

[Joanna Fleming]

Do you?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I do.

[Joanna Fleming]

I knew it. Because I saw you holding it earlier. I'm like, that's the Expensive hairbrush.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Rebecca. I have the labon brush. It's Labon Bross. Is that how you say it?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Tell everyone how much it is.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

To be fair, it was a gift from my dear friend Maddie.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So I didn't pay enabler.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think it was like $250.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, yeah, I think it's about 250.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We got you the big one.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, you did buy me the big one. Good friend. I've loved it. I honestly think it's really helped my slicked back bun as well. I think it's a great investment. I'm interested to see if it stands the test of time. My sister is a loyalist to Mason Pearson.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That is the brush that you referenced earlier, Mads, that some people have said that they've had for 10 plus years. It's quite an iconic brush. I think if you look it up, the look and design is distinctively iconic. And it's also been duped quite a bit on Amazon as well. I'm. I don't know if the dupes actually work, but apparently that's the OG A.

[Joanna Fleming]

Lot of people buy Mason Pearson as gifts. Yeah, they do, like a child's brush as well. And that was a really popular skew when I worked at Adore Beauty as a gift. So if you ever need to get someone a baby gift, I love a niche gift. Yeah. But they probably wouldn't have thought so.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Chic to buy that for a little girl that she's gonna have growing up.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I think they do a pink and blue one. Can I tell you something about my history with hairbrushes?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Sure.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Go for it.

[Joanna Fleming]

So my auntie gave me this hand painted hairbrush. She's like an artist. She does all of this painting and she had this, like, wooden hairbrush she gave me, and she painted it and she put my name on it, and it was really beautiful. I had that from probably about 7 years old until I was about 27. I still have it, but that was my daily hairbrush, and it lasted that long, and then it started to fall apart a little bit, and so I had to change it, but I still have it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That's so beautiful.

[Joanna Fleming]

But I just don't use it as my hairbrush anymore. But I can't tell you the amount of people who were like, how did you have a hairbrush? I don't even know how I had it for that long, but it really stood the test of time. But now I have a GHD paddle brush and I have a Christophe Rabanne Boar Bristle. Brush, which I do love. And I also have a tangle teaser for when I really need it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have a tangle teaser. I don't know if anyone else does this, but if you have like a holiday house or somewhere else that you go to regularly, whether it be a partner's house where you just have random things there that the things that you use. I have like a detangler brush. I have like random shampoo and conditioner at our house in Yarrawonga. It's just like my leftover ones.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, yeah. My ex used my tangle teaser on my dog, so I never really used it after.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

To be fair, they are.

[Joanna Fleming]

He's an ex.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I've got a couple of hairbrushes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. How many?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I've got three. I've got three. I've got a Mason Pearson. So my grandmother had a Mason Pearson that she'd had for 21 years.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

See, that's beautiful. Like, how sentimental is that?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And she used to use it on all of the grandkids. She used it on her own hair. Like it was really beautiful. It was just a little one.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I mean, she had like 80 year old hair. But I bought a Mason Pearson during COVID because, like, I wasn't going anywhere. I was like, might as well brush my hair. And then when I worked at Mecca, I went to a new store opening and I had a glass of champagne and one thing led to another and I was buying a bond brush at the checkout. And then everyone in the office, like, we were so addicted, we were brushing each other's hair, going like, oh. Ah. It was like the minions, like everyone was buying them once, like one person told them, so I have the big Le Bon, which is what I bought Ray. But then I also went and bought the little one to have like, as a little handbag.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, that's great.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I have to say, like, I don't. I get a haircut probably every 12, 14 weeks. I don't color my hair. I'm not great with haircare. But for me, investing in something when I'm spending so much time on these DIY blow waves and like, it's what I wanted to spend my money on.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I also have this really beautiful comb that I bought from this gorgeous Mads. You'll know that. Yes, I knew you would know it because I always forget it. But they have a specific store in Paris that you can go and buy like combs and brushes, candles, different scents, and you can get your initials in it. So if you want something bougie and another gift that's also a go to.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I mean, I also want justice for brushes that aren't expensive because, like a Lady Jane brush that's like, like 18 is probably what I used from about 11 to 20.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So justice for that brush.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

12 years. That's like cost per wear of like $0.01.

[Joanna Fleming]

And I also think it's relevant to mention as well, if you've got coily hair, if you've got textured hair, having a really quality brush or having a specific brush that you know works for your hair type is kind of crucial.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. And the bristle materiality too, based on your hair type is really important.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So, like, for me, because I've got thin, fine hair, but a lot of it, a bore brush is best for my hair.

[D]

It's the shoe that needs no introduction. From grabbing coffees to a day in the office, at this point, they're basically part of our personality. Obviously, I'm talking about the Adidas samba. If you're like us and you can't get enough of your sambas or it's time to give your style a little shake up, you need the Neapolitan pack. This samba duo is an ode to sweet treats, complete with a strawberry pear and a chocolate pear, both with creamy leather materials and contrasting accents that will have everyone asking, where did you get those shoes? Get yourself a little treat with the Adidas Neapolitan pack, exclusive to JD Sports. Thank you so much to Adidas and JD Sports for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

All right, moving on to myth number five. And guys, this one is really sensitive for me. Those slick back buns are destroying your hair. I'm in trouble. So, in very unfortunate news, both Mr. D and Renee confirmed that the slick back bun will damage your hair. I mean, we all knew this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We know.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I know, I know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's the price you pay for chic.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Mr. D and Renee. I. No. So Renee says the constant friction and tension will eventually take its toll on your hair follicles, but notes that some people's hair is definitely stronger than others. Mr. D echoes her saying that any stress on the hair, including tight bands, gel, and sleeking, will add to hair breakage. He says that if you have curly hair, the slicked back bun will also affect the elasticity of your curls, which means they won't sit as well or look as luscious. But if you just can't imagine giving up on the slick back bun anytime soon, soon Renee has some words of advice. And thank God, because I Have no intention of giving this up at all. Renee says you can opt for a good range of products to protect your roots and mid lengths. If your hair is going to be loaded up with sticky products, good scalp health is super, super important. She recommends a soft bristle Denman brush to slick your hair back as it will also take care of your scalp in the process. Finally, she says to avoid harsh elastic bands because they can cause hair breakage. Guys, are we surprised by this or did we see this one coming?

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm in no way surprised. I already knew this, but mostly I knew this because it also causes something called traction alopecia.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Which is where the. I guess the traction from you pulling your hair back causes you to lose a bit of hair around your hairline specifically. It can also be at your temples and at the nape of your neck as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Greg is having like a conniption in the corner of the room right now.

[Joanna Fleming]

But see, I've known this this whole time. Rihanna. I still do.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Thank God.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I just. I'm sorry. Like, I cannot commit to washing my hair every two to three days.

[Joanna Fleming]

Absolutely not.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So Slick Rick, you better believe, is being phoned in. I started getting called slick Rick in my last job because I wore a slick back bun so often. And I am not using those dainty little elastic bands. I'm going in with the thick, dark brown hair ties from Woolies and I'm doing like triple layers. Like, there's no silk hair ties being used. I know full well the damage it's doing to my hair and I'm doing it anyway.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think as long as it's not one of those, like elastic, you know, those little ones that are really. They pull on your hair a lot.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, yeah. Like almost like lacquer bands.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are not good for it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Look, I think it's also very trendy in the zeitgeist at the moment. The slick back bun look, I feel like it's that whole clean girl aesthetic.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Sophia. Richie.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Sophia. Richie. Grange. It's definitely having a moment. I would like to say that I've been doing it since. Since, you know, year 10.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was the leader of this pack.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No, no. I. I do find it is my go to look when I want to feel confident.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I feel like a slick back bun. For me, it feels clean. It keeps my hair off my face. I am a big toucher with my hair as well. Like, I will play with the little bits at the front. So it's a nice way for me to stop doing that, but yes, unfortunately, it's just not going anywhere. Despite what the expert say, I am going to commit to the slick back bun. I will not abandon it. What about you guys?

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm going to stick with it. But something I will recommend people do if they do a slick back one and they use a lot of product in it, is to use a scalp scrub or a clarifying shampoo when you're getting rid of your slick back. Like, if that's what you do before you wash your hair and you're putting a ton of product in it and then you're just washing it with your regular shampoo, you might not get the best wash. Yeah. So like getting your scalp back to baseline. It's always better for your scalp.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Good hair.

[Joanna Fleming]

The Christopher Barn scalp scrub. It is heaven. It smells like hot, man, it's so good. Oh, my God.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The goop detoxifying one is amazing as well.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay, one to try.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The one thing I would say as well if you are doing a slick bun is to always make sure that you are doing a double cleanse, like for your hair. It's much like if you're wearing SPF and makeup, like, you've got to do one wash to get it all out.

[Joanna Fleming]

All the shit and then do the washi.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you know what else is really great and this is such a good hack? Glycolic acid by the ordinary. You put that through your scalp, leave it on for like 10 minutes. Great. Before a full wash.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. Alpha H also have a scalp treatment that has. I think it's got salicylic acid in it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So there you go, guys. You thought that you were just gonna get your swaps from us at the start. You're actually getting them peppered throughout swaps.

[Joanna Fleming]

All the way through.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I love all the peppered hair wrecks. All right, I'm going back to back. So myth number six, you'll fry your hair if you don't use heat protectant. If there's one thing we've all been told, it's that a heat protectant is essential if you're going to use heat tools. As this one's pretty scientific, we're going to turn to an article published on the Conversation late last year explaining how heat protectants actually work. Written by Daniel Eldridge, a senior lecturer in chemistry at Swinburne University of Technology, it says that while our hair is pretty tolerant to heat compared to other parts of our body, it can still only withstand so much heat. Tools often operate at temperatures over 150 degrees Celsius, and some can reach over 200 degrees Celsius, temperatures that can really, really fry our hair. So with all of this damage in mind, it sounds like heat protectants are needed, but do they actually do anything? Daniel explains that most heat protectants have fancy sounding ingredients which are chosen because they readily stick onto hair and create a coating. He likens this coating to putting an oven mitt on before touching something hot. I like that good little analogy. Like an oven mitt, a heat protectant delays heat penetration and means less gets through. So it appears heat protectants really are somewhat essential. Daniel does say that just like an oven mitt, though, some heat will still get through. The only way to truly prevent heat damage to your hair is to not use heated styling tools. So we guess it's like sunscreen.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like, the best thing to do is not use a heat tool. But if you're going to put your rash vest on and some sunscreen.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes, absolutely. I always use some kind of product in my hair, so I have so many at home. But like, I rotate through a few different ones, which I always put in damp hair before I then dry my hair.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, I do the same. I'm a loyalist to a heat protectant and leave in product. Again, I have quite frizzy hair, so it's an essential for me. And I also, as I said before, I do use a lot of heat tools and I notice a massive difference if I don't do that. I also have to get regular haircuts for that reason. So I'm pushing like six to eight weeks on the regular haircuts. Mads, you're laughing. Which says to me that you do not.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I've never used a heat protection in my life. Really?

[Joanna Fleming]

But you're. About you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I want to be really clear about this. I only think I started giving a crap about my hair care maybe two years ago.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No, no. Like, I was like, you know, girls got budgets, right? My world. I'm like, if I go on my list, it's like fragrance, skin care, makeup. They are like, that's my Triaxi hair care. Like, I have dead straight hair, uncolored hair, low maintenance hair. Like, I was buying supermarket shampoo and conditioner until probably 24 months ago. And the only reason I started buying professional hair care was because I was working back in the beauty industry with a great staff discount and thought, what's kind of working out? Similar prize. I've noticed a difference, but yeah, no heat protector. Just never, never got around to that. Which is funny because I do buy or bait texturizing spray to finish off the look. But I'm not really worrying about the prep step.

[Joanna Fleming]

I mean if you're not heat styling your hair every single day though, you're probably not accumulating as much damage as some other people would without using the heat protector. But brands like ghd, all of their tools are set to 185 degrees. They say that's the max temperature. Like that's their own research.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So do you need dictated?

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, yes, but it's like before you start causing serious damage to your hair post 185 degrees and then Dyson, all of their tools are relatively low. So I know the air straight, I think that's set to like 140 degrees. I actually don't know if that goes higher or not. But the airwrap has a built in temperature checker and that continuously checks the temperature so that it doesn't go above 150 degrees at all times.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I know Dyson is expensive, but I do think that their products are so worth it when it comes to that hair quality, the investment, the longevity you get out of their products.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Have all of their products.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I haven't used their styling products.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They launched them last year. I haven't tried them and I don't know anyone else who has. But I'm intrigued. It didn't feel like the obvious place for them to go. But they're not the first hair tool brand to go into that space. I just curious if anyone's used it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I own the Dyson hair dryer. We have a Dyson Air wrap in the office which is like one of the best perks. But I'm yet to pull the trigger on the air wrap or the air straight. But Joe, you're convincing me.

[Joanna Fleming]

See, I gave you all that information but I actually use my cloud nine on 210 degrees so I am also a victim to the high temps. But my hair doesn't hold with anything else. It needs to be max temperatures or it just does not hold. This is why the air wrap is useless to me because it just does not hold if the temperature is too low. So I do have to fry it to make it stay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It must be fried.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Have you ever, have you ever used rollers?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes, they don't hold either. Yeah, unfortunately.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I love that. Like I've been to all these hairdressers. I come to my house, come to my house, give me the air wrap and the rollers and the orbe and.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Let'S the rollers don't work on me either.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, you can put it to the test, but I think you're going to be disappointed.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'll add a heat protectant to cart and order two minute noodles instead of dinner tonight. Perfect.

[Joanna Fleming]

Now, Mads, as you were talking about supermarket hair care, that's our myth number seven. So the myth is supermarket hair care will do long term damage to my hair. We did actually go to the hairdressers about this as well, but obviously, you know, they're working with salon hair care on a day to day basis. They're recommending it and, and overwhelmingly their opinions were that salon hair care is their preferred option. And that's not to say that they shut on supermarket hair care, but just the preferences.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, of course.

[Joanna Fleming]

Turns out the answer for this one isn't particularly clear cut. It's much more about finding what works for your particular hair type. And we've turned to a video by Dr. Michelle Wong, aka Lab Muffin Beauty Science, who is a chemist and science educator. I absolutely love Michelle. She shone some light on this topic in a video that was posted to her Instagram. We're going to play that clip now.

[E]

We can't always trust experience or anecdotal evidence. There are lots of factors that change what we experience. For example, if someone tried a professional product and it didn't work, they would probably go off and buy a drugstore product because why would they pay so much more for something that didn't work the first time? And chances are they have fussy hair that doesn't work well with as many products. So by default, the vast majority of people who haven't found the right products are going to be using drugstore products. There's also the fact that if you go to a hairdresser and they recommend you expensive products that didn't work, you are less likely to go back. Also, people lie, especially if the hairdresser keeps dissing drugstore products. If they say, oh, your hair's looking great, is that because you've been using the products I gave you? I told you that drugstore stuff was awful. A lot of us are just going to say yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

She goes on to explain that the reality is, aside from the patented technologies, the properties and performance of professional and drugstore shampoos and conditioners overlap a lot. Reiterating that what it really comes down to is finding the specific products that work for your particular hair. And that could be an in salon brand or it could be a supermarket brand. Formulators who have made both types of products have Even said that there's no big difference. They're formulated in the same way with the same ingredients. And while it's possible salon hair care contains some high quality or fancier ingredients, Dr. Michelle said that there's no such thing as high quality sulfates or higher quality silicones that are only used in professional products. According to her, most of the price difference comes down to things like marketing and price positioning. So it turns out the answer isn't that clear cut. And basically what you've got to be wary of are any lofty claims and pick well based on what's worked for you in the past. What works for you guys? What do you currently have on rotation in terms of hair care? Let's talk just purely shampoo and conditioner in this case.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you know what I think would be important to preface before this as well is do you have coloured hair?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Because in my opinion that is the most important part of whether you can. One of the most important parts of.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Whether I think if that's your primary hair value and that's how you're measuring the product, then yes, I have coloured hair.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I have so many gray hairs I have to get my hair colored like every six to eight weeks. Again I use salon quality hair but also I work in an all female office that gets a lot of PR and a lot of. Over the years I've been very lucky to trial a lot of these products free of charge. So I do think there's a bit of bias there for me. But I've been using salon quality products for the last two, three years. What about you guys?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Salon now I use a lot of 11, NAC and Orbe. They're sort of the three that I rotate. I tried some Kevin Murphy towards the back end of last year. Loved it. Would definitely repurchase it again. But that's what I've got on my shelf. So it's. I'm going to use what I use.

[Joanna Fleming]

Great selections.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. What about you?

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm going to be honest, I haven't used supermarket hair care in probably 12 years.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Wow.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay, you're out.

[Joanna Fleming]

I am really into my strictly must be selling hair care because I have a great experience with it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And so at the moment I'm using Redken's ABC range. I love Virtue. If you haven't tried Virtue Haircare, I've.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Heard really good things about products.

[Joanna Fleming]

Kerastase, I've used a lot of as well. I've used NAC a fair bit before as well. I've used 11 before. I've used Kevin Murphy, but I've used every range that you could think of. I've used in my hair. But. But obviously that's because I've worked in beauty for a long time. I've also had a staff discount. I've also received gifting. So I've had access to all of this that didn't come at a huge cost to me. And so that's really important to mention as well. But when I have had to use supermarket hair care, like if I've forgotten to bring my shampoo and conditioner away for the weekend, I've had to wash my hair. I do notice a difference.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you know what I would say? I only notice a difference in shampoo. I don't notice it in a conditioner.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Actually I'm like gun to my head. I would go and happily buy a $6 conditioner at Kohl's. No stress, no qualms. But shampoo. It wasn't until I started going to the hairdresser that I see now that I was like, ah, yes, okay. And so I invest.

[Joanna Fleming]

I must say I do love my.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

My salon hair care, but I've also got virgin hair.

[Joanna Fleming]

I mean, yes, I still talking about.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Gray, I'm like plucking them out. I literally have a set of choices that I carry around in my car. So if I'm like pulled over waiting for someone, I can like get them and people, oh, seven will grow back when you pull one out. Well, grab a chair, grab a sandwich, we're going to the wake. But I like, I will need to get my hair colored soon. Maybe my opinion will change once I've got colored hair because I'm sure it'll change the texture and the durability of it once it's no longer surgeon.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, look, I think overall, coming back to my point earlier, around hair values, whether you're a supermarket or salon, it really depends on that and what your priorities are and what you define as your priorities for good hair. I remember seeing this video of Alex Earle. She was using her off pantain hair.

[Joanna Fleming]

Do you remember this video?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

She posted like a six second TikTok saying, why does my expired Pantene shampoo and conditioner do more than like any other product I've ever used? And her hair has never been better and everyone was going ballistic. It got picked up by the media.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It was like supermarket hair products are back. And I was like, what is going on?

[Joanna Fleming]

Also I feel like hair care would be the first thing to go in a cost living crisis. Right, of course. You're like, okay, I still want to buy my serum that, you know, makes my skin look amazing. I'm going to swap out my shampoo first. Like, that would be the logical thing in my mind. I'm like, yep, hair care would be the first thing to suffer. Then makeup, then skincare.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Again, it would just depend on what your priorities are as a person.

[Joanna Fleming]

Exactly, yeah. And also on hair type. Again.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Exactly.

[Joanna Fleming]

If you've got textured hair, if you've got curly or coily hair, hair care is going to be a lot more important to you.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, exactly.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. My girlfriend uses bread beauty.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I love great things about bread.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

She's got coils and she jars. Just raves about it. Says it's like completely transformed her hair. She said that it just allows her to have variation with her curl types and can relax her curls like nothing else. So for her, like, it's worth the investment because it gives her flexibility in the way that she can wear and style her hair.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Also just incredible branding and marketing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I love. It's an Aussie brand.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I know. True love.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. But I think there's like a lot more in the way of supermarket brands in the hair care aisle now. I mean, you only have to go down there now. It's not just Pantene and Head and Shoulders.

[Joanna Fleming]

Exactly.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. There's a lot more options there, which I think is probably made a lot more people second guess where they buy their hair care from. They probably are walking down the street and totally. Maybe I will park my Keras.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And it's funny what you say about like hair care being one of the first things to go in these sort of like, I call it discretion recession at the moment because I feel like that's what it is. People are being more conscious about what they're spending their money on. But I do find as well, people are investing in something like a Dyson going, okay, well, going and spending 50 or $60 on a blow wave, then going and spending 700 on a tool. Like the math makes sense. So to go and buy a haircare to accompany that, it's like, well, can I go to the hairdresser less can I not get that cut or color? Like, it has been quite interesting watching the hair care space post covert. I feel like people have really leveled up hair care and DIY hair salon.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I mean, I'm not gonna go buy a box dye. My mother would actually murder me about your hairdresser.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Maybe.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Maybe that'll be what gets her out of retirement for me. I'm like, come on, look at the grays. We've got a whole family back there.

[Joanna Fleming]

We could talk about hair care all day. I feel.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I know we might need a 2.0.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I love myth busting. Yeah, it's so fun.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I really want to go and do one of those scalp analysis. I don't know. I think it's a vader who do them in their store. They take a photo of your scalp to show you the oil buildup. I'm like, oh, that would be bad.

[Joanna Fleming]

It ain't pretty.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I don't want to say that.

[Joanna Fleming]

I don't think you do.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Well, that's all for this week's episode of Stylish. We hope that you have loved listening to all of these hair care myths busted, decoded just as much as we had chatting to Renee and Mr. D. Thank you very much for joining us. And of course, thank you very much, Rhiannon Joyce, for filling in.

[Joanna Fleming]

Thank you. Well done.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So well, I'm gonna drive Ree home. We're gonna pump Club Riri in the car. And Joanna Fleming, we have never valued you more than with your extra expert hair help.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Honestly, it's like having three experts.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And remember, you can drop us an email anytime@style-ishameless media.com. maybe send over what your salon verse supermarket favorites are, but you can also slide into our DMS if you fancy over at Styleish au As always, we can't forget to thank our audio engineer, Liam Clayton and the Shameless media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emmerburgh. We'll be right back with you next Wednesday. See you then.

[Joanna Fleming]

Bye, guys.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Can I go buy a heat protector now?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.

[Joanna Fleming]

Always was, always will be aboriginal land.