Phew, it's been a big week in fashion

Summary

Podcast Summary: Style-ish – "Phew, it's been a big week in fashion"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Style-ish
• Host/Author: Shameless Media
• Description: Style-ish is the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty.
• Episode: Phew, it's been a big week in fashion
• Release Date: March 18, 2025

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1. Major Shifts in the High Fashion Landscape

Donatella Versace Steps Down from Versace The fashion world was abuzz as Donatella Versace announced her departure from Versace after a remarkable three-decade tenure. Madison Sullivan highlights the significance of this move:

"After three decades at the helm of Versace, Donatella Versace was stepping down as creative director..." ([09:19])

James adds his admiration for Donatella's impact:

"Donatella, she has given the Medusa a new meaning... There is no easy challenge, and I feel like she has done it with such grace." ([09:24])

Despite financial challenges, including a 15.4% revenue decrease and a $17 million operating loss between April and June 2024, Donatella's legacy remains influential. The duo discussed the potential acquisition of Versace by Prada, emphasizing Donatella’s role in maintaining the brand’s prestige.

Demna Moves from Balenciaga to Gucci Another seismic shift occurred as Demna, the controversial yet visionary creative director of Balenciaga, stepped down after ten years to take on a new role as Gucci’s Artistic Director. Madison provides context on Demna’s reputation:

"Demna is known for his thought-provoking, rule-breaking approach to fashion..." ([13:22])

James expresses his mixed feelings about the move:

"My jaw was initially on the floor, but then I was like, wait, am I gonna, like, get my double G Gucci bat out?" ([14:57])

The transition is viewed as a strategic gamble for Gucci, especially with their revenue dropping by 20% in 2024. The hosts ponder whether Demna can infuse Gucci with his avant-garde flair while respecting its heritage.

Heider Ackerman’s Debut at Tom Ford Garners Praise Heider Ackerman made a significant splash by debuting his first collection for Tom Ford, earning a rare standing ovation from Anna Wintour. Madison emphasizes the rarity of this accolade:

"There are few dots on that chart [of Anna’s standing ovations], so receiving one is a monumental approval." ([17:50])

Joanna Fleming reflects on the harmonious tribute in Ackerman’s collection:

"It did play a lot of homage, I think, to Tom Ford and the many eras of Tom Ford." ([18:03])

2. Highlights from Paris Fashion Week

Dochi's Standout Presence The hosts couldn’t stop raving about Dochi’s performances, particularly her Grammy show and overall presence during Paris Fashion Week. James comments:

"She is the moment. She is the moment." ([05:16])

Madison adds to the admiration, noting how Dochi adapts her style to complement different brands while maintaining her unique identity.

3. Pretty Little Thing’s Controversial Rebrand

Shift to Minimalist Aesthetic Sparks Backlash Pretty Little Thing (PLT), a UK-based fast fashion retailer, unveiled a radical rebrand shifting from their signature vibrant, club-ready attire to a neutral, minimalist 'old money' aesthetic. The change has not been well-received by their core demographic:

"They have been your community and like, where has she gone?" ([27:10])

James critiques the strategic direction:

"It does feel like a grab." ([26:23])

Madison and Joanna discuss the potential disconnect between the new brand identity and PLT’s established clientele, highlighting concerns over lack of diversity and inclusivity:

"The new clothing is much, much more modest... And I can't help but see the danger that, that a thin white woman is considered, you know, what this brand wants to go after." ([22:36])

They also touch on the ethical implications of higher prices without improvements in quality or working conditions, intensifying the clapback from loyal customers.

4. Viral Moment: Silicon Breasts on the Runway

Duran Lantink’s Provocative Show Closes with Controversy Dutch designer Duran Lantink caused a stir at Paris Fashion Week by closing his show with a topless male model adorned with large silicon breasts. The stunt ignited a divided reaction online:

"Some felt that the stunt was humorous. Others felt that it was poor taste and making a mockery of women's bodies." ([32:28])

Madison expressed her discomfort with the performance:

"To me, this just felt like a ploy for online attention." ([32:30])

James shared his criticism of the act, emphasizing the unnecessary objectification:

"I don't find it humorous... It's so polarizing." ([33:00])

The hosts discussed the broader implications of such performances in fashion, questioning the motives behind shock factor tactics.

5. Fur and Faux Fur: A Resurgence with Ethical Considerations

Fur Returns Prominently on Runways with a Shift to Faux Options Following Paris Fashion Week, there has been a noticeable spike in fur-related searches, both real and faux, indicating a revival of interest. Madison and Joanna presented data showing significant increases in online searches for real fur, faux fur, and shearling:

"Post Fashion Month searches for real fur, faux fur, and shearling have spiked on rental platforms and retailers." ([35:22])

James highlighted Fendi’s unique stance:

"Fendi is still using real fur... They want to uphold the integrity of real fur products." ([35:41])

Sustainable Alternatives and Future Trends Madison discussed emerging sustainable faux fur technologies, such as LVMH’s collaboration with Imperial College London and Central St Martin’s University of the Arts to develop lab-grown fur fibers:

"They're working with the Imperial College of London and Central St Martin's University of the Arts to develop a lab-grown fur fibre for Luxury fashion use." ([38:27])

Joanna emphasized the importance of ethical considerations in fur consumption, balancing sustainability with animal welfare:

"There is a really layered argument because I think it obviously sits at this really complex intersection of sustainability ethics and personal values." ([37:56])

6. Closing Thoughts

The hosts wrapped up the episode by reflecting on the dynamic and often tumultuous nature of the fashion industry. They emphasized the importance of staying informed and critically engaging with evolving trends and brand strategies.

---

Notable Quotes:

1. Madison Sullivan ([09:19]):

   "After three decades at the helm of Versace, Donatella Versace was stepping down as creative director."

2. James ([09:24]):

   "Donatella, she has given the Medusa a new meaning... There is no easy challenge, and I feel like she has done it with such grace."

3. Madison Sullivan ([13:22]):

   "Demna is known for his thought-provoking, rule-breaking approach to fashion..."

4. Joanna Fleming ([18:03]):

   "It did play a lot of homage, I think, to Tom Ford and the many eras of Tom Ford."

5. James ([26:23]):

   "It does feel like a grab."

6. Madison Sullivan ([22:36]):

   "The new clothing is much, much more modest... And I can't help but see the danger that, that a thin white woman is considered, you know, what this brand wants to go after."

7. James ([33:00]):

   "I don't find it humorous... It's so polarizing."

8. Madison Sullivan ([35:22]):

   "Post Fashion Month searches for real fur, faux fur, and shearling have spiked on rental platforms and retailers."

---

Conclusion: This episode of Style-ish delved deep into the seismic shifts reshaping the fashion industry, from leadership changes in iconic brands like Versace and Gucci to controversial runway moments and significant trends in fur usage. The hosts provided insightful analyses, supported by real-time data and personal perspectives, making it a comprehensive overview for fashion enthusiasts keen to stay ahead of the curve.

Transcript

[James]

Foreign.

[Joanna Fleming]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Bioderma. Undress your skin. Reveal your glow with the iconic Sensibio H2O micellar water limited edition bottle. Created in partnership with Victoria Beckham. Coming soon to Chemist Warehouse.

[Madison Sullivan]

This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan. Thought my co hosts are the jet setting Joanna Fleming. Hello. And the formula one loving Annika Joshi Smith.

[James]

Hello, everybody.

[Joanna Fleming]

Star of Vogue Australia. I saw on socials looking hot, hot.

[James]

I was on the hunt for Lewis. He's my hall past you guys like. And also I think when I was growing up I used to get always called the pussycat doll. So I think I've got a chance. I think I'm in.

[Joanna Fleming]

Except you're kind of married though.

[Madison Sullivan]

Oh, wow.

[Joanna Fleming]

Just a hurdle. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

Sorry, James, do you know what I think as well? You have that cool factor. The je ne sais quoi. You' right up his alley.

[James]

Tell me more.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah, all right. How's the ego?

[James]

But anyway, on that topic, it has been a big week for us stylish girlies. Joe, you have obviously just been in Paris. Please tell us all about was.

[Joanna Fleming]

It was a quick trip, but it was a great trip. It was very cold in Paris. I took over 25 kilos of luggage and I think I wore about an eighth of the things that I took.

[Madison Sullivan]

Always the way.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's always the way. But you gotta have options.

[Madison Sullivan]

You look great, you serve some looks.

[Joanna Fleming]

Thank you. Seriously did the dress that I wore to the event. So I was there with Bioderma who I have a personal relationship with. They are a sponsor of this episode, but I am working with them separately. And there was an event that I went to for the 30th birthday of Sense of our H2O and I wanted to wear pink because the dress code for this black tie event was pink or black. And we know how I feel about black. So I went into this secondhand store the day before I left because I did not own anything hot pink. I walked in, I see this dress directly in front of me. It's long sleeve, it's silky, it's exactly Bioderma pink. I was like, I have to have it looked at it exactly my size, $22. And I walked out of there. I was like, I swear that was fate.

[James]

That is amazing.

[Joanna Fleming]

I've never had such a like serendipitous experience.

[James]

We need to go thrift shopping more.

[Joanna Fleming]

I love that.

[James]

And you looked divine.

[Joanna Fleming]

Thank you. It was honestly such a Fashion win.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And while we were in Paris, because this also was in partnership with Victoria Beckham. So she's on this limited edition bottle.

[Madison Sullivan]

Was she there?

[Joanna Fleming]

No, she wasn't there. We're manifesting it all week, but she wasn't there, unfortunately. But we got in our heads that we wanted Victoria Beckham Beauty. So then we were going into all of the department stores trying to find it, and I smelt this fragrance of hers, which I'm now regretting not buying because it's a bit tricky to get in Australia. But the Fragrance was the 2150 Reverie Aldiparfum, I think is how you sound.

[James]

6.

[Joanna Fleming]

It has notes of vanilla, cedarwood, and tonka bean, and it was just delicious. And I'm really regretting not getting it, but I have so many fragrances. I was like, oh, am I really gonna wear it now that I'm back here? I'm like, you're like, yes.

[Madison Sullivan]

I really would have worn it. We always regret the things we never bought.

[James]

That's true.

[Joanna Fleming]

So if I ever come across that again, I will be buying it.

[Madison Sullivan]

Maybe that's a sign just to go back to Paris.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

Go for your honeymoon.

[Joanna Fleming]

I know.

[Madison Sullivan]

There you go. Actually, we should figure out a way to get it for you. Leave that with me. That can be our wedding gift.

[Joanna Fleming]

All right. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

And it can be your wedding day fragrance.

[Joanna Fleming]

Fantastic. Good plan.

[Madison Sullivan]

Beautiful.

[James]

Something borrowed, something new, something blue. Is that the saying?

[Madison Sullivan]

Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

I don't know that it ticks many of those boxes. It's something new.

[Joanna Fleming]

It has green packaging, so.

[James]

Close enough. Anyway, while we're on the topic of Paris, Paris Fashion Week has officially just wrapped, and, I mean, dochi, I think, has caught all of our attention. The Chaparrali look, the denim, honestly, that corseted number, the hourglass figure, I just feel like she has not missed.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think that's the best outfit I've seen this year.

[James]

Yeah. Honestly, I want to agree with you on that one. There were obviously so many insane looks from Paris Fashion Week as a whole, but I think the coolest thing about this is that her stylist. Where we must give credit to Sam Wolf. He's actually an Aussie, and he's from Sydney. Snaps for the Aussie. Isn't that cool? And I just feel like I was reading an interview with them and Vogue, and he talked about how everything he does, he wants it to feel truly like his artist or the creative he's working with. And so I feel like you saw that coming through with all her looks. Like acne, Tom Ford, Valentino. Everything still felt intrinsically doctor.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[James]

And I'm just like, she is all over my radar at the moment. I'm obsessed with her.

[Madison Sullivan]

Me too.

[James]

What would do whenever I'm having a bad day? What would she do?

[Madison Sullivan]

Just also, I feel like she is having the moment. Her performance at the Grammys was an absolute standout. Her looks at the Grammys were incredible. But what I loved about all of the looks that she served was that it almost felt like, yes, it felt intrinsically her, but I loved that she was, like, shape shifting based on the brand.

[Joanna Fleming]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. Like, when I was going through all the photos in Vogue, I'm like, yes, I know this is Dochi, but it's like a different iteration of Dochi each time. And she really lent into the brand she was dressing totally with.

[James]

She had that main character energy.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. I don't think she's having the moment. She is the moment.

[James]

She is the moment.

[Joanna Fleming]

Absolutely. I think definitely best dressed at Paris Fashion Week, for sure. Anyway, today we will be unpacking pretty little things, Divisive rebrand, which I'm sure we've seen all over socials, A very strange silicon breast stunt on the Runway at Paris Fashion Week, and why we're seeing a rise in searches for Faux and Real Faux. But first, we're giving you an overview of some of the biggest news in the world of high fashion. Mads, I think you're going to take us through that.

[Madison Sullivan]

Honestly, it has just been the wildest week in fashion.

[Joanna Fleming]

Slack Channel has been going off.

[Madison Sullivan]

Honestly, I had to mute notifications during working hours because I was like, every time I would open Slack, there was a new piece of info. And it's just been. Chaotic is really the only word I can use to describe. So. It was announced that after three decades at the helm of Versace that Donatella Versace was stepping down as creative director. Her replacement is Dario Vitale, the former head of design and image at Miu Miu. She initially stepped into the role in 1997 after her brother Gianni was obviously tragically murdered. And at the time, critics really came for her and doubted her ability to continue Gianni's legacy and vision for the brand. But I think it's safe to say she really proved everyone wrong in the last 30 years. She cemented the label as one of the major fashion tastemakers of the last three decades. And she said, it's been the greatest honor of my life to carry on my brother Gianni's legacy, versace said in a media release. He was the true genius, but I hope I have some of his spirit and tenacity like Mammoth News. And just in case that wasn't enough for our week over at Gucci, last week it was announced that Demna, the creative director of Balenciaga, who we spoke about on the Balenciaga traced episode, would be stepping down after 10 years at Balenciaga and moving into a new role as Gucci's artistic director. So of all the designers that were rumored to land the role, Demna was considered, I would say, arguably one of the most unlikely choices. He's known for his thought provoking, rule breaking approach to fashion, first at Vetements and then at Balenciaga. And as I said, we did that traced episode of Balenciaga last year. And if you haven't listened to it, please do go and have a listen because I think it's a fascinating story and it'll probably help you understand, I guess, the controversy that is surrounding this move for sure. But despite, I guess all of this, he is still very much widely viewed as a visionary and era defining designer. And so he's joining Gucci at a rather tough moment. And the label's revenue has fallen significantly since 2022 and Demna is tasked to take it to the helm and get in the front seat. And finally, at Paris Fashion Week, fashion designer Heider Ackerman debuted the collection for Tom Ford, receiving a standing ovation from none other than Anna Wintour. Which might sound like a nice thing, but they are few and far in between. One of our very, very favorite Instagram accounts data, but makeup fashion created a graph of all of the times Anna has given standing ovations in the last decade. And let me tell you, there were not a lot of dots on that graph. Karl Lagerfeld's last chanel collection in 2019, Valentino's full couture collection in 2022, and their full couture collection in 2023 and Sarah Burton's final collection for McQueen in 2023 were some of the only collections getting standing ovations. So as I said, not many dots on that chart there. So all this is happening in the face of a downturn in luxury fashion, which has brands really scrambling to appoint new creative directors, new new board members, new CEOs. I think we've spoken about it before, but it's feeling like musical chairs right now. Yeah, let's start with Donna Teller because I think it's Arguably the biggest story.

[James]

100% like Donatella, she has given the Medusa a new meaning, don't you think?

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah.

[James]

I just am so obsessed with all things Donatella, And I think 30 years is an incredible tenure. And what she has done, she has gone from muse to fashion powerhouse. There is no easy challenge, and I feel like she has done it with such grace. But I was reading so many quotes from all celebrities that she's worked really closely with, like Emrata to Bella Hadid, even all the supermodels of the 90s. And everyone just speaks so much about how everything she does has been with integrity and with family values at the core. And I just feel like this is such a bittersweet moment, because the final Runway show look, apparently she was dropping a few crumbs in there that it was like a lot of the looks were actually Gianni's final designs, and they paid homage to that.

[Madison Sullivan]

Wow.

[James]

I just got chills. I know. I feel like my little hairs were stood up, but apparently that's how people were like, oh, wait, okay, this might be the last. Might be the last one.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah.

[James]

And so I just feel like in her time, she has just done incredible things. And I think it's also cool because she's always talked about how she is all about empowering that next generation and empowering younger designers. So I feel like she's kind of handing over the torch, so to speak. So I'm actually really excited to see what Versace looks like now.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, she is almost 70, and she's been at the helm for 30 years. So I think it's just her time has come, and she's probably like, oh, okay, I'm just gonna retire now and actually enjoy the fruits of my labor.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah, I thought the same thing, Jo. And then the more I was reading about it, there was apparently some reported differences between her and John D. Idol, who is the CEO of the business. And apparently they had different visions for the brand, and they'd had declining financial performance leading up to this announcement. And so they're owned by a group called Capri holdings, who also own Jimmy Choo and Michael Kors. And Versace has apparently been facing sign significant financial challenges. So between April and June 2024, the company's revenue reportedly decreased by 15.4%, resulting in an operating loss of 17 million USD.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

So I'm not surprised they've brought in the Miu Miu creative and brand image director.

[James]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

Or the previous. Because I think that what we've seen from Prada and Mimi, in recent years is some seriously significant growth.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, major. In 2023, it was a 58% revenue increase. And then 2024, it was a 93% increase in retail sales.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. And there is a rumoured acquisition that Prada will actually purchase Versace.

[Joanna Fleming]

Really?

[Madison Sullivan]

So I think this is them going, let's see if we can do what we've done and then we'll decide.

[James]

Yeah. And I feel like as well, Miu Miu is literally the brand of the moment. It's so hard to argue. Like, even Doe Chi wearing Miu Miu, it's just been one of those brands that is constantly elevating getting back into the zeitgeist. And I feel like now I'm really intrigued to see what other kind of arenas they step into. Versace hasn't really played with like beauty and fragrance and all of those things that these other brands have. So maybe that's going to be like the next move.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. I do think you're so right though. Like 30 years, she's done the most incredible job and I can only imagine how intimidating stepping into that role would have been for her because Gianni was such a visionary and such an icon of that time and the face of the brand. To step into that and have had all that controversy and to have had the successful, iconic moments she has. I don't know, when I think Versace, I just think Dua Lipa. Like, I just think they've had so many incredible moments together in the last kind of 10 years. Yeah. I kind of can't imagine a Versace without a Donatello.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I think it'll be a challenge to maintain that, like, rich heritage and identity of the brand because it is so intertwined in the brand. You know, you can easily pick a Versace piece or some brands you can look at. You're like, oh, I don't know, what could that be? So I think that will be a huge challenge for him coming into the brand.

[James]

The brand identity will live on through JLO and the jungle print dress of the 2000s. Oh, my goodness. That moment. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

Long may it rain. How did we all feel about Demna?

[James]

Oh, wow. I feel like this one, honestly, like, broke the Internet.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah.

[James]

Kim's booty and now this.

[Madison Sullivan]

The comment sections were very telling.

[James]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

And the share price was also very telling. The share price kering dipped by 12% after the announcement.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I wasn't overly surprised by it because I think Gucci needs a real shake up and I think this is probably their way of getting that Shake up. Something needs to change within the brand, and Demna is known for being controversial and making big statements.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

And I think if you're going to be doing that, you're going to hire someone like him.

[James]

Yeah. I also think as well, Gucci is such a heritage house, and they lean on heritage a lot. And I agree, Joe. I feel like sometimes, I think when the luxury market is in a downturn, that customer isn't necessarily going back to heritage. I think getting back into the zeitgeist, getting brands that are pushing the boundaries and kind of looking for what is that next it product gonna be like Gucci have the Jackie bag? You know, how many times are we gonna do the Jackie? What's gonna be next? And I'm really intrigued to see how he puts his contemporary spin on it because, I mean, he has been one of the most provocative and controversial designers. Like, we unpacked it and our traced. I mean, you just can't question the fact that quite a genius when it comes to, like, the triple S sneaker or like, things that he have made quite ugly, cool and commercial, because he's speaking to that customer on a real level. So I think my jaw was initially on the floor, but then I was like, wait, am I gonna, like, get my double G Gucci bat out? Am I gonna, like, move on to the next big thing? I don't know. What will Demna do?

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah, I think my jaw is still on the floor. I think he's so renowned for, like, avant garde and street style, as you've mentioned. I think he's done that with veterans and with Balenciaga. I think what even Alessandro Michelle has kind of done and what we've seen, you know, with Tom Ford era of Gucci is like, that heritage has still been respected.

[James]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

I think my nervousness is will there still be a nod to those things that are so distinctly inherently Gucci?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

And the share price indicates that maybe people are nervous about it.

[James]

People don't trust it. And I think as well, obviously he's been with Balenciaga for 10 years, so maybe he's also looking for that next challenge. And maybe he will actually really focus on his contemporary roots and making Gucci and the house codes, those heritage codes, a little bit more commercial. We shall see. But also now what I want to know is who's going to fill the Balenciaga chair? Because those are also huge shoes to fill.

[Madison Sullivan]

Huge shoes to fill. And I think Kieran are in a world of her right now, which is the parent company who own Gucci and Balenciaga. So this move is an internal one. But in 2023, Gucci accounted for 51% of Kering's total revenue.

[James]

Wow.

[Madison Sullivan]

And in 2024, the revenue declined by 20. So as their biggest brand, this has to work.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

For both Demna and for them, there's a lot riding on this.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yep.

[Madison Sullivan]

And while we're talking musical chairs, I mean quite literally, as we walked in the studio, our producer Kate was like, oh, my God, guys, it's official. Jonathan Anderson, like, I actually feel so sad saying this.

[James]

I know.

[Madison Sullivan]

Has stepped down from Louis Vay after over 10 years, and it is very, very widely rumored that he is going to Dior. They say that it's Paris's worst kept secret, but this is huge. The way they has continued to top brand year after year after year. This is a big deal for them.

[Joanna Fleming]

I wonder how they feel about that.

[Madison Sullivan]

I know how I feel about it.

[James]

I know this change. Like, I just feel like I actually can't keep up with it. I'm like, this musical chairs. What a plain week.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah, it's just phenomenal. Phenomenal week. I mean, he invented the puzzle bag. I just think we just. We owe so much to him for the zeitgeist and what he's done. And obviously he has his own brand, J.W. anderson. But I do hope he goes to Dior because, you know, talking about heritage houses, I think Dior's a little bit sleepy. But it's a sleepy giant and I'd love to see it reawakened. But I am really sad as a personal, like, adorer of Loewe 100%.

[James]

I'm literally like, should we all buy a puzzle bag now? Because it's gonna skyrocket in value.

[Madison Sullivan]

Do you wanna buy me a puzzle bag right now?

[Joanna Fleming]

I don't know that I.

[James]

My brain, like, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

Do we get it in a red so it matching, Stylish red. Yeah. Right?

[James]

Cute. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

And then finally, Haider Ackerman's debut collection for Tom Ford received the standing ovation. The awok, if you will.

[James]

The awok. If anyone doesn't know what an awok is, it is Anna Wintour. Okay.

[Joanna Fleming]

Wasn't that our first episode?

[James]

Our first podcast?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan]

What a full circle moment. We're nearly in a year now too.

[Joanna Fleming]

I can't believe it.

[James]

So honestly, anyone who doesn't know that is like the greatest tick of approval in fashion. I think just to have Anna Wintour stand up in general and like, literally acknowledge your existence. I know. I'm like, oh, my God. It's a huge moment. And I honestly think, as well, like, looking at the show, I understand why we saw the standing ovation. The whole crowd actually lift up the collection. It did play a lot of homage, I think, to Tom Ford and the many eras of Tom Ford. So it wasn't just like, looking back at his time with Tom Ford. There were, like, even little traces of Gucci in there. There were little things that literally really praised the work of Tom Ford in general. So I feel like there is a deep respect, and I think that is something that I just think is so beautiful about the synergy between the two designers.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. I think for me, that's what I want for Gucci too. Do you know what I mean? Those subtle nods and that deep respect of heritage and where a brand has been, I think is what I love so much about that. But I thought the collection was absolutely breathtaking.

[James]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. The sentiment online has been overwhelmingly positive as well for Heydar Ackman.

[Madison Sullivan]

So, God, you must be so nice reading that. Like, when you know, you're just like, how's everyone going to receive?

[Joanna Fleming]

You're not getting any hate. Yeah, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

What has been your favorite? Anna Wintour standing ovation. There's only a few to choose from.

[Joanna Fleming]

The 2019 Apres ski themed Chanel show with the full, like, Snow Town. Like, it was so cool. Amazing. I'm not surprised that that got a standing ovation, are you?

[James]

Yeah, no, honestly, I'm not. I actually think this one is my favorite, and I think it's mainly because looking at the collection, it's both glamorous and wearable. There are so many practical sensibilities to it, which I think is where my style is kind of personally wanting to go. So I just loved the respect as well and the synergy between the designers. What about you, Mads?

[Madison Sullivan]

It's the 2022 full couture Valentino for me. It was when they did those beautiful bold silhouettes and colors. It was when we saw that, like, Barbie pink sort of for the first time, the full looks. I just think that's one of the most iconic fashion Runway moments for me. And I think absolutely, that deserved to stand. I would have given one.

[James]

I'm signing up at any show.

[Madison Sullivan]

I think I would probably do that at any fashion show, though. All right, onto far less high fashion topic. We last week saw UK based fast fashion retailer Pretty Little Thing unveil its new rebrand, which came after the brand went dark across all of its socials earlier in the month. The rebrand has sparked major debate online. I think major is not a big enough word. Many customers were expressing disappointment in the brand's neutral, minimalist, old money esthetic. The online retailer, who I think it's pretty safe to say has been known for bright colored, tight fitting, quite frankly, club and party wear. So this rebrand feels like a total 180 from them. Pretty Little Thing has also been known for regularly featuring women of color and curve models. And post rebrand, there's a lot of online chatter and noticeability of the fact the models are predominantly thin white women with a clean girl aesthetic. And I use inverted commas for that. The new clothing is much, much more modest. I mean, we're seeing blazers, suit, pants, long skirts, dresses and shirts and they're available in a more limited size. And I can't help but say I feel like we've seen this film before.

[James]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

Many online also feel that the rebrand has been influenced by the rise in conservatism and right wing politics, which has seen movements like Trad Wife gain mass popularity and more modest styles of dressing becoming commonplace in the fashion world. I think, I mean, globally we're seeing a real resurgence of conservative, probably values and lifestyles and I think we've seen that politically and also with the likes of influences like Nara Smith popping up.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with modest clothing, but I think that's very different to what PLT usually do.

[Madison Sullivan]

Personally, I find this quite interesting because I think, you know, challenging my own thinking. I've never sort of seen the political landscape impact fashion or I haven't acknowledged that. Whether that's naive or not, you know, I'm sure we can discuss, but I think what we are seeing is this conservatism is almost like an evolution of clean Girl and I think, you know, seeing the lack of diversity and inclusivity, I can't help but see the danger that, that a thin white woman is considered, you know, what this brand wants to go after and what that says to customers who are not a thin white woman.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, that's actually a really interesting take. I hadn't thought of it like that, but it's interesting that that is the conversation going around online because I probably wouldn't have thought of it that deeply either.

[James]

I think as well, it kind of speaks to the community and the community values because there is so much societal pressure already. And I think PLT as a brand and what they have always stood for and who they've catered to, it was very inclus. And yes, she was the club girl, she was partying. But that girl's still important, she still matters. And I think to now kind of have a brand that had that much power as well with this demographic, to now tell her, no, this is what you should be wearing and how you should be wearing it. I think that is a dangerous space that we are now playing in. You know, like these girls are influential and they are still young. You said she's 16 to 24. God, at that age I, you know, the brand of the moment that I could afford told me this is what I should be wearing. I would have bought it because that's how influential we are, I think. And I just think it is a very, very interesting move and I don't think it's a strategic move. And I'm not surprised they're getting a lot of clap back online because of this because to me it just doesn't make sense.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. I also think as well it's quite a paradox that it's like you're wearing, you know, suit jackets and pants and these kinds of things. But what Trad Wife represents is theoretically not going to work and stepping into your power and being a self made, powerful, vocal individual. And so I, I am disturbed by this Trad Wife trend as someone who does sit very much in like feminine energy and power and having your voice be equal as, yeah, men and other people.

[James]

Do you know what else I actually do not like about this? How their tagline, it's about luxury. Did you guys see how the branding now it's shifted to defining the new luxury or something silly. I'm like, no, that's not luxurious.

[Madison Sullivan]

And then your models are white and thin and so does that mean luxury is only available to them or that is the definition of luxury? Because it's obviously not so much underlying messaging. Yeah, I know. And I think it's great that we're having this debate and that we have these conversations because I think it's so easy to go well, the rose popping off and they're doing beautiful cashmere and high turtlenecks and pants. And so it's just fashion. And I don't think this is just fashion. I think this is quite politically laced. Some online also pointed out that while prices have gone up, the quality of the items and the working conditions of those in their factories have not changed.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan]

What do we make of this?

[Joanna Fleming]

I mean, it's an interesting move because their customer is between 16 and 24 and they're, they're clubbing, they're going to clubs, they Want club wear, they don't want a business shirt.

[Madison Sullivan]

I just have this image of 18 year olds, me going in the club in a suit.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan]

It's not working.

[Joanna Fleming]

And I mean we did kind of wear corporate wear. We wore the peplum top when we were that age. But I just don't think that's of the now. And I don't know. Are they trying to keep up with their customer from five years ago that has now got a corporate job? Are they trying to appeal to that same customer again? Yeah, I don't really know what they're trying to do here. It's confusing. All of their stuff essentially is still polyester. So as you said, it's not like the quality has improved, but the price has definitely gone up by the looks of it.

[James]

Yeah, I think we've spoken about this before and it's the rebrand. It's like, what is the purpose of this rebrand? Like, I really want to understand the why. Like when I think pretty little thing, I think the club, I think cutouts, I think Minnie, she's going out, she's.

[Joanna Fleming]

Like, I think bodycon.

[James]

Oh yeah, bodycon for sure. And the neon colorways, I don't think this tread wife, this kind of core where it's very, very minimalist. And I just don't understand how we've wiped out the customer that got your brand to where it is today. Yeah, like sure, we will evolve and grow, but is this really the rebr that pretty little thing needed?

[Madison Sullivan]

No. Is my simpler? No. It doesn't feel strategic. It feels like let's just pull it all off and start again. When you're a brand of this size with an audience of the size that they have, you're not taking them on the journey. You're like cutting them off at the knees and then starting again.

[James]

Yeah, it's never gonna fly. You were setting yourself up for so much clapback just because this customer has been on this journey for so long. They have been your community and like, where has she gone? I was going through the website and I really struggled to find pieces that I think that 16 to 24 year old customer would actually want to wear. Because a lot of the silhouettes and product on there, it's not groundbreaking, it's not anything that's not already readily available in the high street. So I was kind of like, how is this a strategic move? It does feel like a grab.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. And I think if you wanted to appeal to that customer who maybe is growing up or transitioning into full time employment, like have an edit that is like, to the desk.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan]

Don't make it your entire brand. Yeah, yeah. Just to dinner, as I like to say. Just to dinner or to dance. Law perhaps is probably a better one for them. But I'm like, you've alienated your core clientele. You've completely done a 180 on your brand, and you're abandoning all the people who've built you to be the business that you are.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan]

And I also think we really do have to acknowledge that their conditions aren't getting any better. Their prices have gone up, as you've said. The fabrication is unchanged. So why are we spending more? What are we paying for the photo.

[James]

Shoots, I think as well, Pretty little thing have been synonymous with scandal for so many years. And this overnight change, it means there hasn't been likely any increases in their backend, their operations, their supply chain. They have been seen to, like, you know, not be very transparent about all of their operations, not really shine a light on any sustainability initiatives that goes on in the back end. And, you know, we've heard everything from their working conditions to just all of, like, their manufacturing in general and the ethics behind it. There has been a lot of scrutiny. So I don't think with this overnight change, likely any of this has been improved.

[Madison Sullivan]

And yet they're charging more.

[James]

Exactly. It just doesn't make sense. Make it make sense, and then they just don't pay their workers a living wage. Like, how is this right? It's really hard to change your entire supply chain this quickly. You're not going and getting new makers. You're not like, you know, getting new fabrications. You're not going straight back to, like, starting a new brand. You are going back to who you've always used. You still got those payment terms with those same suppliers. You still got all of that same history there. But then you're putting a surcharge on your pricing. I think the price actually increased and the surcharge has gone to their branding, their marketing. Because I don't know if you guys saw the rebrand launch party. It caught my attention because Kelly Rutherford and her Birkin were there and so was Chuck Bass. And I was like, how the hell is this pretty little thing? It made no sense to me.

[Madison Sullivan]

Cash, Cash. Cash. Cash is king. Hey.

[James]

Cash is king.

[Joanna Fleming]

I saw a TikTok from a creative director called Alicia Berman the other day, and she theorizes that they're trying to target the reformation and Frankie shop customer. But those people shop in a totally different price range. Not to Mention, they likely have higher expectations when it comes to quality and fabrication. So you're trying to target those people. But not only do they not want to shop in that price range, they also want better quality items with better materials and they want to know where.

[James]

Their products came from as well. Like the Frankie shop, you go into one of their stores, it's very, very, very hands on. You talk to the stylist, they know everything. They're styling you. It's a very personal experience. I don't see pretty little thing doing that.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

No, I just think this is so wrong. And also what happens when trad wife's out of the cycle in a year's time. Shit. We should have stayed with the bright body contrast for our girls in the club. Because I tell you what, I'll still be here in a year. The club.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, up next, we'll be discussing a viral moment from Paris Fashion Week involving a pair of silicon breasts. But first, let's hear a word from today's sponsor. Let's be real. If you're into skincare, you probably have a bottle of Bioderma sensibio H2O micellar water sitting in your cabinet right now. This is one of those truly iconic beauty products, a favorite of makeup artists, dermatologists, celebrities and skincare lovers alike. And for good reason. The formula has been so good that it hasn't changed in 30 years. It was the original Micellar water first created in 1995 by Bioderma's founder, a biologist and pharmacist, after dermatologists in Paris noticed their patients were struggling with sensitized skin from hard water. The solution, a rinse free ultra gentle cleanser that was even softer on skin than French tap water. And here's the cool part. The formula is 99% biomimetic, meaning its ingredients mimic the natural composition of the skin. That's why it's so effective and incredibly gentle. To celebrate 30 years of this cult favorite, Bioderma is teaming up with none other than Victoria Beckham to launch a limited edition bottle. If you want to be one of the first to get your hands on it, make sure to follow at Biodermanz or sign [e-mail] and of course, a huge thank you to Bioderma for making this episode of stylish possible. Okay. Silicon breasts take the Runway at Paris Fashion Week. Dutch designer Duran Lantink closed his Paris Fashion Week show with a topless male model wearing a pair of large silicon breasts, which was actually the first thing that popped up on My Instagram the other day when I opened my phone and I got quite the shock. I wasn't expecting to see a pair of breasts bubbling down the Runway. But immediately after the show, photos and videos of the moment started going viral on social media. But viewers were pretty divided on it. Some felt that the stunt was humorous. Others felt that it was poor taste and making a mockery of women's bodies. Some pointed out it felt unfair that a woman or a person with large breasts wouldn't be able to walk down a Runway topless, but a man with fake bare breasts could. And it seemed to be able to be posted on social media, which a lot of the time, women's breasts cannot be. Talking about the collection, Duran said, it's about cosplay. It's playing with bad taste. It's about form. Every season we're trying to sort of surprise ourselves with how we can change an original piece into something we find interesting. And we're going to do whatever the we want because we're free.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. Wow.

[Joanna Fleming]

Thoughts?

[Madison Sullivan]

So many. I think I can safely say I was with you. I think I was out walking my dog when I opened my phone and I thought, oh my God, is someone behind me look like a pervert? I mean, look, as you said, he described his collection as playful and free spirited and, you know, wanting to challenge perceptions. But to me, this just felt like a ploy for online attention.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

I just think, you know, the fact that as you said so perfectly, women can't have their breasts on social media, but we can have a man in silicon breasts on social. I don't know, it just, it felt like a big reach for me.

[James]

Honestly, it was such an eye roll. Like, I looked at this and I was like, really? Really? Do we actually need to kind of like look at women's bodies in this light? It's just so unnecessary. It's so polarizing. And it's also like, we don't need this anymore. I'm so tired of it. I think fashion has honestly got a bad rap previously because we don't always cater to larger size woman or larger size breasts. A lot of the collections that we often see, they don't have give around the bust area. They don't support women who have a larger chest. And for people who might have a daily struggle when it comes to getting ready, don't make fun of that. Don't point fingers at that. I don't find it humorous.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. And I also just think shock factor for the sake of shock factor is not something I'm interested in, in fashion anymore. I feel like we've seen so much of it. I'm like, I'm Ty. Ty.

[James]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

And I think he got what he wanted. He wanted publicity out of it. He wanted his name thrown around the media. And that's exactly how you do it. By putting some silicon boobs on a man.

[James]

Yeah. Boring.

[Madison Sullivan]

Next.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, that was quick. All right, onto the next one. Fur searches are spiking post fash month. Last week in our autumn trend report, Annika mentioned that fur will be having a huge moment. Yes, I was wearing a furry hat in Paris and I loved it.

[Madison Sullivan]

She knows what she's talking about. People she really inane trust.

[Joanna Fleming]

She does. And it's been having a huge moment on the runways over Fashion Month, which definitely cemented its place, I think in our wardrobes over the coming seasons. The fall 2025 collections for labels like Balenciaga, YSL, Fendi and Lanvin featured fur coats and shawls. But in a sign of the times, all except except Fendi were faux fur. Data from fashion search engine Tag Walk shows that there were 211 looks at the Paris shows that featured fur like pieces. While at the Milan shows there were more than 280looks featuring fur or faux fur. Unsurprisingly, post Fashion Month searches for real fur, faux fur and shearling have spiked on rental platforms and retailers. Likely thanks to that huge number of fur based looks we saw on the runways. Net a porte searches for shearling fur increased by 250% and searches for faux fur increased by 220% between February 24th and March 10th. In that same week circular clothing platform, her saw searches and rentals for shearling fur increase by 110%. So with all of that data, I think it's fair to say that fur is very much in.

[James]

Yeah, fur.

[Madison Sullivan]

Hard to deny those numbers, isn't it?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I mean, look, it's been a long standing issue in the fashion industry and it is great to see all of these designers opting for faux fur over real fur. Yeah, if you'd asked me 10 years ago, I probably would have said I don't know that that's going to happen. But it is good to see that transition. Why do you guys think Fendi is still using real fur?

[James]

I feel like it's one of those things with luxury houses, like they want to go back to the craft and the core. But also I did read an article with Vogue where they talked about wanting to actually put that choice back to their consumer and back to their partners. And they said it's up to the consumer to decide because they know it is very divisive, but they wanted to still uphold the integrity of real fur products. I'm not sure how it is.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's always been considered luxury. Right, Exactly. Luxury to own. So.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. And I think had you have asked me whether fake fur could look as good as real fur, 15, 20 years ago, I would have said, God, no. And now I think you look at these Runway photos and these outfits and pieces and I think you really struggle to know what is real and what is fake. And I think that's brilliant in terms of. Obviously, there is a very complex argument for animal cruelty in wearing real fur. And so I think how fantastic that the technology is there, that these can so closely emulate the real thing. I think as well, taking ourselves out of this, we have to be a voice for animals within this. And I think there is tremendous suffering that goes into producing these garments. And I think think that obviously the controversy that comes from fur is also about buying new fur. And I do think Fendi deliberately deciding to still use fur is a very interesting choice given we know the tremendously cruel conditions such as farming and built facilities designed entirely for production of fur.

[Joanna Fleming]

And the inhumane practices that go into the production of real fur products.

[Madison Sullivan]

Look, and I think there is a really layered argument because I think it obviously sits at this really complex intersection of sustainability ethics and personal values. And vintage fur is better from a sustainability perspective. But wearing fur, the argument is, are you endorsing the industry by wearing a vintage fur?

[James]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

And so I think purchasing a vintage fur or possessing a vintage fur through family versus engaging with the new production of fur and encouraging the industry is very different versus a circular fashion economy.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

I do think it's a little bit of a cop out for Fendi to say it's up to the consumer to decide.

[James]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

I think they just like having fur in a world where everyone else is engaging in fake fur practices.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. It is a bit of a catch 22, because either you're contributing to animal cruelty or you're polluting the earth, so.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Because a lot of faux fur comes from plastic.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

But I did read a Vogue article that was published in 2022 that LVMH is attempting to create a new sustainable option using keratin, which is the main protein in our Ha.

[Madison Sullivan]

Amazing.

[Joanna Fleming]

To create a faux fur. So they're working with the Imperial College of London and Central St Martin's University of the Arts to develop a lab grown fur fibre for Luxury fashion use.

[Madison Sullivan]

Brilliant.

[Joanna Fleming]

Which would, I guess, develop a fur alternative that's animal free but then matches the quality of natural fur. So it feels a little bit more like, like real.

[Madison Sullivan]

Absolutely bloody brilliant. I love that that will be the key concern and I think with this trend coming, there will be an influx of people looking up fur. And there are obviously vintage real furs and circular fashion and those sorts of things. It will be interesting to spectate in how people engage with this trend. I imagine if people are buying new, they will buy fake fur.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan]

But if buying secondhand, there is obviously a network of real fur in the market. But I think we can't deny that. That a fake fur is better for variety of choices.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

If you're.

[Joanna Fleming]

Where would you guys shop fake fur if you were going to.

[Madison Sullivan]

Well, we said the other day we bought the same Kai jacket.

[James]

We literally have been shopping up a store mackay, haven't we?

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah, we have, actually.

[James]

I definitely think Kai is doing incredible things right now, and she's very much in the zeitgeist as well. Other faux fur brands, like, obviously unreal fur, like, they're Aussies and I actually used to work really closely with them and they have the look and the feel, and I think they do it at a great price as well.

[Madison Sullivan]

Frankie Shop have some really good ones. I do want to warn that they're, like, quite expensive. Like, when they convert to aud, we are kind of talking anywhere from like, 600 to like a thousand dollars.

[James]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan]

But I was actually on ASOS the other day because I saw this really great one from Topshop that was in, like, a really beautiful burgundy. So I think kind of like, you know, there's some brands in there that I think the fluffier they are, the more real they look, as opposed to that kind of shag pile look, I think, where they've got that little bit of texture or it's that kind of like fo Mongolian fur look where it's like a bit, you know, is the word I would like to use.

[Joanna Fleming]

An Aussie brand that I would recommend is Boobish. B U B I S H. I've.

[Madison Sullivan]

Never seen this brand. You'll have to send it to me.

[Joanna Fleming]

They've got a mixture of faux fur and then they've got some upcycled real fur and feather options. I have so many of their coats. I love them for, like, winter, not staples. They're more like statement pieces. But I like my coats to be a bit more stable.

[Madison Sullivan]

A show pony.

[James]

That's my show pony.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I've had several coats from them. That's where my cherry colored bomber is from that I bought. Yeah, Love that winter. So they're really good for like statement winter pieces.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. Fantastic. I feel like we'll see an influx of brands that we maybe wouldn't even be looking to now that we'll be like, okay, they're coming out of the.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well now the fur is really back.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah. And there were lots of shearling sort of jackets on Zara as well. I was having a little peruse there the other day.

[James]

I've seen a lot of like contrast, like shearling kind of trim and like.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yes.

[James]

Pu base, like sax pots were doing like the incredible things when they had them.

[Madison Sullivan]

I got one of those. So I'm feeling really cool now. And you've just said that's what you've been saying.

[James]

I'm like, got it last season, no longer. So obviously that's an investment because there goes that price just skyrocketing, you know.

[Madison Sullivan]

Fantastic.

[James]

The girl, Math and me right now and my investments everywhere, honestly.

[Madison Sullivan]

Look out, Loewe. She's coming for a puzzle.

[James]

Here I come.

[Madison Sullivan]

But that is all for this week's episode of Stylish. Thank you so much, so much for joining us. And of course, thank you very much, Joanna Fleming, who's still battling jet lag for being so up and about.

[Joanna Fleming]

But it was a big week. I had to be here.

[Madison Sullivan]

Yeah, I know. And you, Annika. Joshua Smith. We're just lucky that you're not with Lewis Hamilton by this. But remember, you can drop us an email anytime at style-ishameless media.com or you can slide into our DMS over at style_ish au. And as always, we can't forget to thank our audio engineer, Liam Clayton and the Shameless media team head of podcast Lucy Hunt. Happy birthday for the other day, Lucy. And senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. We'll be right back here next Wednesday. See you then.

[Joanna Fleming]

Bye.

[James]

Bye. Au revoir.

[Madison Sullivan]

Maybe Jo could have done that because she's the one.

[James]

Lisa Visa. This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.