The enduring appeal of Vivienne Westwood

Summary

Summary of "The Enduring Appeal of Vivienne Westwood" – Style-ish Podcast

Released on February 11, 2025 by Shameless Media

Style-ish is the podcast dedicated to exploring all facets of fashion, brand, business, and beauty.

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Style-ish, hosted by Maddie along with guest hosts Joanna Fleming and Rhea, the trio delves deep into the life and legacy of Vivienne Westwood, a towering figure in the fashion industry. The discussion navigates through Westwood's transformative impact on fashion, her storied career, and the complexities surrounding her brand's continuation after her passing.

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Fashion Swap Segment

The episode kicks off with the beloved "Fashion Swap" segment, where each host shares their latest fashion finds and recommendations:

• Rhea’s Pick: Pinky and Kamal Pilates Socks [02:00]

  • Rhea introduces these stylish and comfortable socks, perfect for Pilates enthusiasts. She highlights their grip and versatility, mentioning how she wears them both in class and during casual outings like brunch with friends.
  • Rhea says: “They are so comfy and they look so cute.”

• Maddie’s Choice: Cotton On’s All Day Tee [04:24]

  • Maddie shares her discovery of the All Day Tee from Cotton On, praising its flattering fit and affordability compared to her previous baggy T-shirts. She appreciates its versatility, pairing it effortlessly with activewear for a polished look.
  • Maddie remarks: “I have never felt more beautiful in a dress.”

• Joanna’s Recommendation: People Hair Care Slick Styler [05:41]

  • Joanna recommends this portable hair styler from Kohl’s, appreciating its ease of use and compact size, making it perfect for on-the-go touch-ups. She contrasts it with more traditional pomades, valuing its flexibility and durability.
  • Joanna notes: “It's very practical and handbag friendly.”

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Tracing Vivienne Westwood’s Legacy

Early Life and Education

Vivienne Isabel Swire was born in 1941 in a small village near Manchester, UK. At 17, her family moved to North West London, where she was accepted into the prestigious Harrow School of Art [12:00]. Initially enrolling in a silversmithing course, Vivienne left after a semester, citing the challenges of making a living as a working-class artist. She transitioned to teaching to support herself, defining her passion for art through education.

• Vivienne stated: “I didn't know how a working class girl like me could possibly make a living in the art world.” [12:33]

Personal Life and Early Career

Vivienne married Derek Westwood in 1962, adopting his surname which became integral to her brand identity. Their marriage was short-lived, ending in divorce two years after the birth of their son, Ben, in 1965. Vivienne then partnered with Malcolm McLaren, a prominent figure in London’s underground art scene, to launch fashion ventures on Kings Road.

• Maddie observes: “Vivienne is often called the godmother of punk” [20:12]

Rise of Punk and Cultural Influence

Together, Vivienne and Malcolm opened several stores, including Let It Rock, Too Fast to Live, Too Young to Die, Sex, Seditionaries, and World's End. Their store became the heart of London’s burgeoning punk scene, playing a pivotal role in the formation of the Sex Pistols, who became synonymous with punk culture.

• Rhea adds: “Corsets by Vivienne have a punk edge,” reflecting on how her designs incorporated structured, sexy elements that resonated with the punk ethos. [16:35]

Vivienne's collaboration with Malcolm extended beyond fashion, influencing music and art, solidifying her status as a cultural icon.

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Solo Career and Brand Evolution

In 1985, Vivienne launched her solo collection, Mini Crinny, marking a shift towards tailored designs. Her fashion shows were renowned for their theatricality and fun, a stark contrast to the stiff, supermodel-dominated runways of the 1980s.

Despite respect from peers, Vivienne often faced mockery from the establishment. A notable instance was her appearance on the British talk show Wogan, where her innovative designs were met with ridicule.

• Sarah Stockbridge, Vivienne’s former muse, lamented: “Vivienne had been invited on the show to be a joke. She almost had to justify herself.” [28:14]

Expansion and Controversy

The 1990s saw massive growth for Vivienne Westwood’s brand, with expansions into Japan and the U.S., the release of her first menswear collection, fragrances, and a deep dive into bridal couture. Her personal life continued to intertwine with her professional endeavors, including her marriage to Austrian designer Andreas Kronthala in 1993, despite a significant age gap.

However, tensions arose as Vivienne's anti-capitalist values clashed with the commercial demands of expanding her brand. Vivienne expressed dissatisfaction with the label’s direction, especially regarding its financial ambitions, which she felt conflicted with her principles.

• Joanna reflects: “If her wishes were for the label to die with her, I don't know how I feel about that.” [39:48]

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Modern Influence and Legacy

Vivienne Westwood's designs continue to make waves in contemporary fashion. Celebrities like Taylor Swift, Hailey Bieber, Dua Lipa, and Madison Beer have recently been spotted wearing her iconic pieces, ensuring her legacy endures.

• Maddie shares her personal connection: “I have never felt more beautiful in a dress.” [46:16]

Vivienne’s influence is also evident in the continued popularity of her bridal collections, such as the Camille dress, which has become a favorite among brides for its timeless elegance and versatility.

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Posthumous Brand Dynamics

After Vivienne’s passing in December 2022, her husband Andreas Kronthala chose to continue the House of Westwood, despite Vivienne’s wishes for the label to cease operations upon her death. This decision has sparked debate among the hosts regarding the morality and integrity of perpetuating a brand that may diverge from the founder’s original values.

• Rhea states: “It feels uncomfortable for me.” [40:17]

The brand has seen a significant 31.5% increase in revenues posthumously, raising questions about the commercialization of Vivienne's ideals.

• Joanna comments: “All right, up next, we'll be diving into our traced on Vivienne Westwood.” [09:00]

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Ethical Considerations of Brand Continuation

The hosts discuss the ethical implications of continuing Vivienne Westwood’s brand without her direct involvement, weighing the benefits of preserving her legacy against the potential dilution of her anti-capitalist ethos.

• Maddie muses: “Fashion is so much bigger than just one person. It’s about ensuring the creative direction honors the original creative director.” [40:42]

They draw parallels to other iconic brands, questioning whether the continuation aligns with or betrays the founder’s original vision.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes by celebrating Vivienne Westwood’s indelible mark on fashion, her fearless approach to design, and her unwavering commitment to political activism. Despite the controversies surrounding her brand's continuation, her influence remains pervasive, inspiring new generations of designers and fashion enthusiasts alike.

• Maddie reflects: “Vivienne never took herself too seriously. … she's going to be missed.” [46:06]
• Joanna adds: “We love a trace.” [47:32]
• Rhea concludes: “We love a trace.” [47:32]

Vivienne Westwood’s legacy is not just in her designs but in her ability to challenge norms and use fashion as a medium for change, ensuring her place as a true icon in the fashion world.

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Notable Quotes

• Rhea on Vivienne’s punk influence:
  “Corsets by Vivienne have a punk edge.” [16:35]

• Vivienne’s Resilience:
  Vivienne didn’t let mockery deter her creative spirit.

• Joanna on Brand Continuation Ethics:
  “If her wishes were for the label to die with her, I don't know how I feel about that.” [39:48]

• Maddie on Personal Connection to Vivienne’s Design:
  “I have never felt more beautiful in a dress.” [46:16]

• Rhea on Ethical Concerns:
  “It feels uncomfortable for me.” [40:17]

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Final Remarks

The hosts express their gratitude to each other, the research team, and their listeners, encouraging fans to delve deeper into Vivienne Westwood’s rich history and enduring impact on fashion. They emphasize the importance of understanding the full scope of her influence to appreciate the true essence of her work.

• Maddie concludes: “Thank you for joining us this week.” [48:27]

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the rich discussions, key insights, and memorable moments from the episode, providing a clear and engaging overview for those who haven't listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Maddie]

Foreign.

[Sponsor]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by the Iconic this Valentine's Day find a date night look and the perfect gift you'll love@the iconic.com au.

[Maddie]

This is stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business and beauty for the second week in a row. I am joined here today by Joanna Fleming and Rhea and enjoys.

[Rhea]

I'm back.

[Maddie]

How's our week's been?

[Rhea]

Pretty good. Busy.

[Maddie]

Yeah, very.

[Rhea]

I don't know what's going on. Start of the year, hectic start of the year.

[Maddie]

I know. And didn't January just feel like a six month period? I was like, when will it end? And then the other day someone said something about March and I was like, oh, that takes us away. And then I was like, wait, no, that's mere weeks.

[Joanna]

Yeah, I'm booking appointments in April at the moment for clients. And I'm like, is that not halfway through the year? We already insane.

[Rhea]

I feel like in we do so much media planning and strategy, forward planning. I'm like, oh. I'm constantly six months ahead, so I.

[Maddie]

Actually always forget what month I'd be.

[Rhea]

I'm like, oh, oh, yes.

[Maddie]

February.

[Sponsor]

That's like.

[Maddie]

I'm so used to doing fin year or calendar year ahead that whenever we move to the next year, I'm like, we're in 2020. It's like, no, we're in 2025. Next year is 2026.

[Rhea]

How are you though, Mads?

[Maddie]

I'm good, I'm good. It's freelance life now.

[Rhea]

I know you're in full freelance wing consulting world.

[Joanna]

You've got a glow about you.

[Rhea]

You do.

[Maddie]

Thanks, guys, that's really kind. I'm really, really excited for this episode of Traced. We are tracing Vivienne Westwood today and how the designer really created a label that became one of the most enduring and influential fashion houses of our time. But first, we've got some little swap wrecks. So, Ray, you are our guest host. So why don't you kick us off with your swap this week?

[Rhea]

Okay, so mine is for the Pilates girlies. Do you guys do Pilates?

[Maddie]

Yes, yes, I do hot matte. I've recently rebounded back into hot matte.

[Rhea]

Yeah, I'm a big hot matte fan. But these are more for the reformer girlies. So they are specifically this brand called Pinky and Kamal. They do the best Pilates socks I've ever worn.

[Joanna]

Really?

[Rhea]

They are so comfy and they look so cute. The grip. So that's what for those of you who don't Know when you go to Pilates, if you're a reformer girly, you need socks that have, like, a grip on the bottom so you don't slip. You can also use them. Hot mat. Though I have worn them in classes before, I also now wear them outside of Pilates. I wore them on the weekend when I went to brunch with a few friends.

[Maddie]

Was that with me? Yeah. I just pretend friends. I'm like, are we pretending? I'm like, not in the room. I'm like, is that what I was trying to do?

[Rhea]

That was like, wait.

[Maddie]

She's so coy. She has no other friends.

[Rhea]

It is just me I am conscious of. Every time I get on the mic, I'm like, sorry, I saw Maddie on the. No. So we went to brunch on the weekend. Mads and I and one of our other girlfriends, Brooke, and I wore them. I just wanted to wear, like, a bit of color. I had my brown Lululemon shorts, my white singlet, these gorgeous brown socks, and they're just so cute, and I feel so good in them. They're $28, so.

[Maddie]

Yes.

[Rhea]

On the more expensive side, But I think for Pilates socks.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Not too bad. And because I've been wearing them outside of the studio, I feel like I'm getting that cost per wear.

[Maddie]

Yeah. I'm trying not to laugh because the only time I've ever worn Pilates socks is when I went to this. It was like an L. A based. Like, it's like a reverse reformer. It's not a traditional reformer. They used to be in Port Melbourne.

[Rhea]

That is so L. A.

[Maddie]

And I bought the socks because it was mandatory that you wore them in the class, and they were, like, $45. But I actually had a back spasm in the class and had to be, like, carried out. So I was like, that is my only time and memory with it. So I was, like, getting the giggles to myself. Yeah. Anyway, $28. Way cheaper than the ones I was paying for in Port Melbourne that I never had.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

And they're cute.

[Rhea]

They're not like, those ugly ankle ones, you know, Some brands do those. They're cute. Really cute.

[Joanna]

I have a bit of a gripe with Pilates socks. I don't like wearing them. I like to wear feet.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Okay.

[Joanna]

Which is weird because I don't ever have bare feet at home. I always wear slippers. But in Pilates, I just want to have bare feet. I think it's something about, like, being really hot.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

In hot matte, I would usually, but for Reformer, Definitely.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

It's the only time you'll catch me in a crop top is in a hot matte class. I think it took me about six months to take my top off in there. Oh, that didn't come out how I intended. I digress.

[Rhea]

Mads, what's your swap?

[Maddie]

My swap? Hilariously, I also wore for two hour brunch, so there you go.

[Rhea]

Are you gonna pretend that you weren't with me?

[Maddie]

Yeah, I went with some friends who are not in the room. It's actually a T shirt I discovered from Cotton on, so I used to wear, like, really big baggy T shirts when I would go for, like, a walk. But it's not very flattering. Right. So I went into Cotton on and I was like, I don't want to spend a fortune. I love my Lululemon tights, but I think with tops, like, I burned through them pretty quick. So I was like, I just want a couple of teas. Anyway, the tea is called the All Day Tea and it's from Cotton On. It's an absolute dupe for skims. They're $20 or two for 35. And they're hot. Girl walk approved. I just wear those with my Lulu tights and a little cap. And now that I work at home alone, I promised myself I wouldn't be the person who works all day in activewear. I've cheated. What is life if not for progress and aspirations and things to aspire to and look? Maybe two, if we're telling the truth, three days a week, the activewear is stapled to me, but it's better a baby tee than a boy's tee.

[Rhea]

I disagree. I love a boy's tea.

[Maddie]

I look like a boy, so you.

[Joanna]

I would love a boy's tee that actually belongs to a boy, but we can discuss that later.

[Maddie]

Yay. Leave my dating room out. Jo, what is your swap?

[Joanna]

I've got a very affordable one for you today. For the slick back bun. Girlies, that's me. Mads, you and I are doing a slick back bun today. Re. Physically, you don't have one.

[Rhea]

Yeah. I am trying to wear my. I am trying to wear my hair out more. I'm really.

[Joanna]

It does look very nice.

[Maddie]

Yeah, thanks.

[Joanna]

You look very put together. But my swap is the People Hair Care Slick Styler. This is a product you can get from Kohl's. It is $16, full price. It does occasionally come on sale, like, 50% off, so you could potentially get it for, like, $8. It looks like a deodorant. Stick, but like a thin one, not the. Not the round ones, the thin ones. And so you just glide it along, like from your hairline back and it just sticks it down in place. And I used to use sea salt spray because I liked that it had a bit more flexibility than hairspray. And I find this gives the same kind of flexibility, but maybe is a little bit more durable than the sea salt spray, in my opinion.

[Maddie]

Yeah. Great. I usually use pomade, so I'm open to trying something that's a bit more portable.

[Joanna]

I would say it's very similar texture to that when it goes on, but it's great that it's in the solid stick and it's so small that you can just like throw it into your bag. Yeah.

[Rhea]

Because you always get the little flyaways at the back or the little ones.

[Maddie]

From like stone gum, like attacked. I look like I've got a mullet.

[Rhea]

Story of my life, honestly. So you can just tidy those up, Keep it in your bag.

[Joanna]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's very portable. Very handbag friendly, I would say.

[Maddie]

Oh, we love it.

[Rhea]

We also love, like a non sexy swap. Yeah, like just a practical one. That's a good one.

[Joanna]

Yeah, definitely. Very practical.

[Maddie]

I feel like that's still a bit sexier than the cleaning products that Joel and Arnic have brought in before. So I reckon on our sexy scale, probably just midweight.

[Joanna]

You know, I get a lot of DMs Madison about the cleaning products. There's obviously an appetite.

[Rhea]

Jo's not happy.

[Maddie]

Ri. If you're looking for a new pillar in the Shameless media portfolio cleaning podcast.

[Rhea]

I'm sure we would have many brands interested in sponsoring. We would. No, I'm serious, we would.

[Joanna]

All right, up next, we'll be diving into our traced on Vivienne Westwood. But first, let's hear a word from today's sponsor.

[Sponsor]

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[Maddie]

Alrighty.

[Joanna]

You know, the drill traced is where we take a brand, a trend person, and we trace that story that influenced the industry for better or worse. Today, as we've mentioned, we are tracing Vivian Westwood, a fashion icon and one of the most influential and enduring designers of our time. And Kate, our podcast producer, she's been fighting for this. She's been fighting hard for this. So we're really pushing her proud.

[Maddie]

So Kate was like, you better make this good, guys. I'm really pushed for this.

[Joanna]

And Mads, you were saying that you've recently had some conversations about Vivian Westwood as well. So it's been front of mind.

[Maddie]

Oh, it's been absolutely blowing up the group chat because I'm feeling like there's a lot of Vivienne Westwood wedding dresses floating around.

[Rhea]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Maddie]

And I feel like it's just really in the zeitgeist. I think Taylor Swift, it's like a real favorite of hers right now.

[Rhea]

And, yeah, I just think in general, loving Vivian Westwood.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Joanna]

Yes, big time. I'm seeing it a bit on TikTok, but also I'm very much in the bridal era at the moment and I'm seeing a lot of that same Vivian Westwood dress going around on socials at the moment. Every time I see it, I go to screenshot, I'm like, oh, it's the same one.

[Rhea]

Yeah, it is a classic in my opinion, so I don't mind the repetition. But, yeah, I feel like it's really having a moment. Ever since Hailey Bieber wore the mini version, I can't remember the exact name of the style. But also Barbara, who married Barbara Palvin, I think is how you pronounce it. She wore that beautiful. The Camille. Yeah.

[Maddie]

Did she marry one of the Sprouse brothers?

[Rhea]

Yeah, one of the Zack and Cody.

[Joanna]

They look like brother and sister as well. Have you seen those Tiktoks Comparing the celebrities that look like they married a sibling, siblings or dating, there's so many, it could go on forever.

[Maddie]

So, safe to say, I think Vivienne Westwood has been prevalent within all of our feeds. But if you haven't seen it via TikTok, maybe you saw it at this year's Grammys with Taylor Swift in that divine sparkly red mini dress that she wore from the label. Or if you've been on Bridal Talk, as Jo and Rae can attest to, very much so you may have seen that there are a lot of content creators and celebrities wearing one of Vivienne Westwood's instantly recognizable wedding dresses. Or of course, the iconic pearl trokers with the crown logo. I feel like I see them everywhere. Whatever it is, there is absolutely no confusing its aesthetic with any other label, just as there's no way to discuss the label without talking about the iconic woman behind it. Vivienne Westwood's fashion philosophy can best be summarized by a phrase she often repeated, which was, buy less, choose well, make it last. But as the head of one of the UK's seminal luxury labels, this ethos was really often at odds with her business commercial interests. Today, we're tracing the rise of the godmother of punk, her enduring influence over the decades, and the conflict within the label following her death in 2022. So we're gonna kick it off today by talking about the woman behind Vivienne Westwood, which you guessed is Vivienne Westwood. So we'll talk about where she was born. So Vivian was born Vivian Isabel Swire in 1941 in a small village near Manchester in the UK. When she was 17, her family moved to North West London and she was accepted into the prestigious Harrow School of Art, which later became known as the University of Westminster. Interestingly, Vivienne enrolled in the silversmithing course at Harrow School of Art, which is where you'd learn to create jewellery or other objects out of silver medal. Oh, an interesting choice, given it was largely known as a fashion school.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

So after just a semester, she left the course to pursue something more practical. When later asked about the decision, she said, I didn't know how a working class girl like me could possibly make a living in the art world. And so Vivian swapped silversmithing for teaching and worked in a factory to support herself throughout her time at teacher training college. She took art as her main subject and reasoned that if she couldn't be an artist, then she would teach art, which I feel like is a pretty usual thing.

[Rhea]

Yeah, I think a lot of people who go into education. That is a common trajectory. Yeah. Or they find a love in teaching.

[Maddie]

Yeah. What they're passionate about.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

So she later went on to meet and marry her first husband, Derek Westwood, in 1962, who gave the iconic surname to her, which she obviously kept for the rest of her life. However, Vivian and Derek's marriage was relatively short lived and they divorced two years after the birth of their son Ben in 1965. Then enters Malcolm McLaren. So Malcolm was a really popular figure in London's underground art scene, although he later became better known as a music manager. Scooter Braun, who. Anyway, Vivian and Malcolm had a son, Joe, and dated from mid-60s to early 80s. And she'd always been making clothes for herself from a really young age. But when she began dating Malcolm, she also started making his clothes. Like, what a woman.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

The story goes that Malcolm and Vivian were such an it couple that the manager of a popular denim boutique on Kings Road in Chelsea approached them one afternoon and asked if they might be interested in renting the back of the shop. So they agreed and the two of them went into business together, selling a collection of old rock and roll albums, or records I should say, that Malcolm had collected and clothes that Vivian was making. Like, bit of an eclectic duo.

[Joanna]

Didn't have a really good business vision there at the start, but get your.

[Maddie]

Rock and roll album and a pair of hands. So in 1971, Vivian and Malcolm opened the half door at 430 Kings Road, called Let It Rock. Love it. Let It Rock was so successful that Malcolm and Vivian actually took the entire retail space and renamed it Too Fast to Live, Too Young to Die. And then it was Sex, followed by Seditionaries and finally landed on at World's End. Pretty dire again.

[Joanna]

I feel like they needed some direction with the business strategy.

[Maddie]

I mean, sex is probably my personal favorite name. Fun fact for you, though, that store on 430 Kings Road in Chelsea is still actually a Vivian Westwood store today.

[Rhea]

I love that.

[Maddie]

Isn't that amazing? Like, 60 years on, that store is still hers.

[Joanna]

That's so cool.

[Rhea]

That is cool.

[Maddie]

So Vivian has since said that each time they renamed the shop that they changed the style of clothes they were selling, much like a new collection.

[Joanna]

I stand by what I said before.

[Rhea]

Joe's not impressed.

[Maddie]

You're like, brand identity. D and A is really getting to you. So in the 1970s in England, it was a time of political conflict and economic stagnation, which obviously caused public tensions and strikes as inflation and unemployment rates really rose. And it was in the 70s that the king's Road store became a headquarters for London's growing punk scene. So Vivienne, Malcolm and their peers were really passionate about dismantling the dominant cultural narrative of the time through fashion and through art. In an article for the New York Times, Marissa Meltzer wrote, malcolm and Vivienne saw the Kings Road store as a laboratory and a salon. Do you still think that this, like, punk rock and roll roots of Vivienne Westwood still lives today? And can you think of, like, any other fashion houses.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

That maybe have that similar standing in history?

[Rhea]

I'll start with Vivienne Westwood. I would say yes, but in a more subtle way. Thinking about it in the context of her bridal collection, I would say that a corset, by design, is quite punk. It's very structured, it's very sexy, it accentuates your boobs. It's very much like very. What's the word?

[Maddie]

Edgy.

[Rhea]

Edgy, yeah, it's very edgy. And it's cool. I like that. It's also been brought into the bridal collection because it has more of, like, a modern, feminine twist. But corsets have been a huge part of her brand DNA. I also think the iconic pearl necklace as well. I do think there is an element of punk to that.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

And the way that people dress it, the way that they mix it up with other jewelry and mixed metals. Yeah, I feel like that's quite punk.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

And I think there's a fusion of tartan that has remained lutely. I think it's not the generic punk tartan that we maybe saw in the 70s of, like, the traditional reds and things like that, but I think they've done lots of steely blues and grays and things like that. They've played with tartan as time has evolved, maybe out of that traditional punk look and feel.

[Rhea]

Yeah, they definitely nod to the original roots. Jo, what do you think? Is there anything that comes to mind?

[Joanna]

It's funny that you say that, because when you introduced it as, like, the godmother of punk, I was like, wait, what? I just thought she was a bridal designer. Like, I didn't know a lot about her background. And so learning this as we've gone through this episode, I'm like, oh, that's.

[Rhea]

Why I love Trace, though, because I think so many people would be like you, Joe, in this scenario and not really understand the history.

[Joanna]

But then you calling out those things, I'm like, oh, my God, of course. Yes, that makes so much sense.

[Maddie]

Can I ask a Question. When did you first discover Vivienne Westwood? Because I think this will be the determination of whether listeners will have known about Vivienne's background or not.

[Joanna]

I think probably 2000s, I would have recognized her more as a bridal designer.

[Maddie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joanna]

Or evening wear.

[Maddie]

Yeah. What about you, Rhea?

[Rhea]

Me, I was a big Alexander McQueen fan and interestingly, they had a bit of tension. They've gone on record and said a few things about each other. Not nice things, mostly Vivian, towards Alexander. But I did watch his documentary and that was reference. And then that really piqued my interest. And I do think, coming back to your question earlier, Mads, about brands who have a similar look and feel and nod to punk, I think Alexander McQueen does that. The iconic skulls, the tartan.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

He was very political with the way that he would structure his runways, his collections. And I think there is an element of edginess to what he did. And interestingly, a lot of similarities to Vivian. So when I went and did some research and had read a couple of comments being like, oh, it wasn't necessarily there's beef, but I don't know if there was like a layer of.

[Maddie]

They're not on the Christmas card.

[Rhea]

Correct, correct. So, yeah, I thought that was interesting because I was like, they're kind of giving similar energy.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Maybe they felt like they were cutting each other's lunch.

[Joanna]

Yes, maybe.

[Rhea]

Well, I think Vivienne maybe thought that, but again, we don't know. It's all just hearsay.

[Maddie]

Jinx. You want me to say, are there.

[Rhea]

Any other brands that you feel like have really brought to life that punk look and feel?

[Maddie]

I think Alexander McQueen is probably the one for me. I'm totally agree with you. I can't really think of anyone else.

[Rhea]

Yeah. The other one I had was Jean Paul Gaultier.

[Joanna]

Oh, yes, of course.

[Rhea]

Similar sort of good ones, Right? Yeah. And just also really embrace women. I think about the iconic fragrance bottle. Do you remember the sexy body, like, really accentuating the breasts. I just love the femininity that these brands have really embraced. And curvy women. And I don't know, there is an element of sexiness to that punk rock and roll look and feel that they all three of them have seemed to inject at some point.

[Maddie]

Yeah. And real celebration of the femininity and body of women. And I think to feel sexy is defined so differently. But I think that the way that they've celebrated shape and tailoring through corsets.

[Rhea]

It'S a bit provocative.

[Maddie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which we love.

[Rhea]

We Love.

[Maddie]

So Vivienne's early designs were often quite shocking and provocative, as we've touched on. But in her self titled memoir, Vivian wrote, I did not see myself as a fashion designer, but as someone who wished to confront the rotten status quo through the way I dressed and dressed others. During the years of the sex version of the store, Malcolm recruited the Saturday sales assistant and three of their regular customers to form a band. Can you guess what they might have been called?

[Rhea]

No, I actually have no idea.

[Maddie]

It was the Sex Pistols.

[Joanna]

Really?

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Oh, wow.

[Maddie]

Insane story. Jo is like, okay, so the music.

[Joanna]

Manager thing now comes into play. Yes, you mentioned that earlier.

[Maddie]

Yes.

[Joanna]

Okay.

[Maddie]

So the Sex Pistols emerged in the mid-70s and many see them as the poster image of everything that epitomised punk. And Vivian is often called the godmother of punk, largely because of her strong commitment to political activism and her belief that fashion could and should be a work of art. So we Fast forward to 1981 and Malcolm and Vivienne debuted their first collection under the London stores first brand name at World's End at London Fashion Week. They titled it Pirate. And it was hugely influential in the rise of the New Romantic movement throughout the 1980s and was seen as a massive success. Has anyone actually seen the New Romantic movement?

[Rhea]

I haven't seen it, but I've heard of it and I feel there is a really solid nod to that. Like punk. But it's positioning in couples as well, is it not?

[Maddie]

Yeah, so it's kind of like David Bowie, Boy George. Like there's a little bit more romanticism to the look. So think like a little bit late 18th, 19th century frilling and things kind of brought in.

[Rhea]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Maddie]

So the title really says it all. It was inspired by Pirates.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

So the show was very much true of its name. It's reported that this collection was the first to recreate historical garments for a modern audience, which is something we see now from fashion houses all the time. But their final collection as a duo was released in 1983 titled Witches. I mean, if the names are anything to go by, I'm willing to bet that that collection was witchy. Like.

[Rhea]

Yeah. Now that you're saying this, do you know who else is really coming to mind is Madonna.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Joanna]

Yes, actually, great point.

[Rhea]

Sorry.

[Maddie]

Perfect segue, some might say. Sorry, I didn't even realize Keith Haring, who collaborated with the pair to create two textile prints that they used in the collection, actually had a skirt for Madonna. Right.

[Rhea]

With the brim.

[Maddie]

So thank you, Rae.

[Rhea]

I did watch that documentary about Madonna. So I feel like it was really top of mind.

[Maddie]

I haven't seen. I want that in show notes so that I can watch it.

[Joanna]

Was that a free to wear the other day?

[Rhea]

Yeah, it was.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Joanna]

I actually saw a glimpse of that as well.

[Rhea]

Yeah, it was really good.

[Maddie]

But it was for her song Borderline. And then that absolutely catapulted Vivian Westwood's profile in the US as you can imagine, Madonna was a huge pop star there. But it's reported that Malcolm became really jealous towards Vivian and feelings of envy and Joe's shaking her head. Typical man. But ultimately drove Vivian to end their business partnership after their relationship had ended a few years prior to that. And I think, you know, I'm shaking my head too, because how sad that she had this husband that she'd spent all these years with who reportedly became really intimidated by his wife being so successful. So after their relationship dissolved, Vivienne began designing under her own name, which is really where we have the birth of the iconic Vivienne Westwood label as we know it today.

[Rhea]

Hey, guys, Kate here. Whether we're discussing clothing, makeup or skincare, the general consensus seems to be that we want to simplify our routines and reduce clutter. Basically, our 2025 mantra is less is more. So we were excited when yours Only came across our desk. It's a Melbourne born, multi use skin and hair care brand for sensitive bodies. Yours Only's clean cleanser has eight uses, which is not only great for bathroom space, but for reducing the ingredients we're putting on our skin. Just the one product can replace your face cleanser, body wash, shampoo, hand wash, bubble bath, makeup cleanser, and more. And the coat moisturiser for face, body and hands was developed for super dry, flaky, extra prone skin. Yours Only is available at yoursonly.com and at 300 Priceline stores nationwide. Thank you so much to Yours Only for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Maddie]

Vivienne's solo collection, Mini Crinny debuted first in 1985. And the collection was a departure from what she'd created with Malcolm and focused more on tailoring and what Vivienne described as things that fitted, which I just adore, because I feel like that's still so true of the range now. But Vivienne's Fashion Week shows became known for their cheekiness and emphasis on fun. And looking back at her 80s collections, the models were often dancing down the Runway, pulling faces and joking around with each other, which is a real departure from what catwalks looked like in the 80s, because we're talking like supermodel era here.

[Joanna]

Yeah, there's a lot of like acting in her and it's actually really fun theater. Yeah, it would be a fun show to go to.

[Maddie]

Absolutely. And in this era, Vivian, Vivian was highly respected among other designers, but the establishment very much still saw her as a fringe artist. In the 2018 documentary Westwood Punk icon activist Vivian's family and former colleagues recount how terribly Vivienne was treated by the fashion industry and British press. In the film, British fashion designer Bella Freud says, when she started, people mocked her, which is just devastating.

[Rhea]

What were they mocking her about?

[Maddie]

Well, there's one particularly painful example of this, which was actually Vivian's appearance on a British talk show called Wogan, conveniently rhymes very closely with Bogan. But we've got a clip to play for you now. And I do want to preface, this is a really cringe worthy listen.

[Kate]

Right, tell me about the twin set and Pearls for Men. Has it caught on? I have not seen a lot of men wearing twin. Yes, you might see your bank manager in five years wearing that. They say Viv's blown it. We don't know whether Viv's blown it this time because this is the new collection. What's it called? It's called Time Machine. It has pagan touches. Are people supposed to laugh? I mean, they're laughing. I, I, I think she feels great and I don't think they should laugh really, but, but do you really expect to sell those? Of course, yes. I mean, what if they don't stop laughing? I shall tell the next person not to.

[Rhea]

Come on.

[Kate]

Oh dear. You're not enough. You can laugh, but look as well. It's really great. Is this a Win Winter collection? Yeah. I've never met this response before.

[Joanna]

Makes me feel so sorry for her.

[Maddie]

That is awful.

[Rhea]

But also the models involved.

[Maddie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rhea]

So unprofessional.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

It's just disgusting.

[Joanna]

Sign of the times, though. I just feel like that wouldn't have been an isolated incident for her. It's just one of many examples of people mocking her for her creativity.

[Maddie]

I just think to sit there though with a live audience or laughing directly at you while your life work up and down is pretty heinous.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

So here's a quote from Vivian's former muse, the model and actress Sarah Stockbridge, who modeled some of Vivian's iconic pieces of the show on that night. And she said it's like Vivienne had been invited on the show to be a joke. She almost had to Justify herself. It really made me furious. But she didn't give a fuck.

[Rhea]

Yeah. Something tells me that she's not the kind of person that would have been super sensitive in the moment. That's not taking away from the fact that it was awful, but the fact that she could roll with the punches.

[Maddie]

I love that she was like, and this is a winter collection. She's like, yeah, yeah. I said what I said. So Vivian's son, Joseph Carre, who. I didn't know this, but he's actually the founder of lingerie brand Agent Provocateur. Oh, wow. Which, I mean, two icons, really. Talk about a family of overachievers. So he told the producers of the documentary, there was loads and loads of that where she was always considered this sort of joke. You know, that fashion industry was against her from day one. They never liked her and they didn't like to see her come up. And in 1990, a group of designers banded together to ensure that Vivienne received the British Fashion Council's Designer of the Year award, which. How good. This is just like your people having your back.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

And the designers all refused to accept the prize themselves until Vivian was crowned the winner. And so she received the award for that second time in 1991.

[Joanna]

See, I feel like that would be way more gratifying, having the approval of your peers in that space than having the approval of some talk show host.

[Rhea]

And the general public who are really understanding.

[Joanna]

Exactly. Who don't really understand the vision. Yeah.

[Rhea]

It reminds me of this whole misfit sort of character. Like, people can't really understand her, so therefore they make fun of her and try and, like, ostracize her. But she's a creative icon.

[Joanna]

Yes.

[Rhea]

Like what she did and her products, way ahead of her time.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

So, yeah.

[Maddie]

It's so funny because even you saying that, I can't help but feel this is so reminiscent of Alexander McQueen 100. I don't think he was immediately celebrated. I think a lot of people misunderstood his designs. It's funny that they weren't on each other's Christmas card list.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Because I think there's a lot of synergies.

[Rhea]

I agree.

[Maddie]

Yeah. So in 1992, Vivian's sort of awards didn't stop there. She received an obe. And the OBE itself was a big deal. But it became even bigger when Vivienne actually went commando to the ceremony. And if you think that I have misspoken there, you're in fact wrong. She posed for photographers outside of Buckingham palace. Sans underwear.

[Joanna]

Yep. She's Wearing, like a big coat and flicking up the coat and you can see she's wearing pantyhose underneath, I should say as well.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

I'm looking at the image right now.

[Maddie]

Yeah. I think when we're talking pun, this is provocative. This is pun. And it's certainly provocative. I think my favorite part of this story is that it's reported that Queen Elizabeth Lizzie was actually quite a fan of the Sun. So I kind of love that from you.

[Rhea]

That doesn't shock me. I think she had a sense of humor.

[Maddie]

I agree. I think. I'd like to think so. After all of my episodes of the Crown. I'd like to think I know Lizzie personally. Vivienne was actually invited back to the band.

[Rhea]

Oh, yeah, there you go.

[Maddie]

She was invited back in 2006. So I'd argue that report is pretty. We've doubled down on that. If Lizzie was offended, I don't think that Vivian would be invited back.

[Rhea]

I agree.

[Maddie]

When she became Dame Vivian Westwood and went commando again, she would have been 65 at the time, which makes it even more so iconic. But back to her clothes. The 90s were a time of massive growth for the Vivienne Westwood brand. And Vivienne opened her first stores in Japan and the U.S. she released her first menswear collection, tried her hand at fragrance, and made a foray into wedding couture. Does anyone remember Carrie's wedding dress from the first Sex and the City movie?

[Joanna]

Oh, absolutely.

[Rhea]

Honestly, Iconic.

[Maddie]

We're gonna play the clip.

[Rhea]

Thank God.

[Maddie]

But I'm still angry about it.

[Rhea]

And finally, Vivienne Westwood.

[Maddie]

A dress so special it could bring.

[Rhea]

A wedding tear from even the most unbelieving of women. I don't love that scene is so iconic. And Samantha's got her tear dying at all.

[Maddie]

And then we see the sheer contrast of how beautiful that scene is by Carrie, like smashing her when he leaves her at the goddamn altar. I still haven't forgiven him.

[Rhea]

No.

[Maddie]

But I think that dress is arguably one of the most cinematic, significant wedding dresses.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Of our time. It was incredible.

[Maddie]

Although Vivian explored bridal silhouettes in her 90s Runway collection, she didn't actually launch an official bridal collection until the 2000s.

[Joanna]

Which is when I think that's when I became aware. Yeah.

[Maddie]

When you were doing your bridal scrap.

[Joanna]

Obviously.

[Maddie]

Her early bridal couture was part of each season's collection stories. Vivienne then went on to marry an Austrian designer, Andreas Kronthala, in 1993. It was a 25 year age gap, which was quite Scandalous at the time. And the couple collaborated on her iconic fall 1993 collection titled Anglomania. During the fall 1993 collection, the show also received a lot of press from a particular mishap. In one of her first looks on the show, Naomi Campbell unfortunately tripped on the Runway. Ray's looking like. I do remember.

[Rhea]

I remember. This is a wobble, isn't it? Yeah.

[Maddie]

She took quite a dramatic tumble. And here's a clip of Naomi and Vivian talking about the fall over 25 years later.

[Kate]

The reason you fell is because you had these rubber tights. Yes. And your thighs caught together, and so you wiggled on the shoe and you've only got to wiggle slightly and you're over.

[Maddie]

I know, but when I tell people they were rubber tights, they're like, what? I said I was wearing rubber tights.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

But I also.

[Kate]

Amazing. I also feel, though, that I did.

[Rhea]

Put too much weight on the front.

[Maddie]

No, on my heel.

[Rhea]

On the back.

[Maddie]

Only Vivienne Westwood could tell Naomi Campbell. Well, you did wobble. It's such an iconic photo, though.

[Rhea]

Yeah, it is.

[Maddie]

She looks fantastic. And I don't look like that when I fall down.

[Rhea]

God, no.

[Maddie]

Anywhere. But in the same conversation, Naomi revealed that the fall caused so much press for Vivian that other designers asked her if she'd consider appearing in their shows.

[Rhea]

So probably generated well for her.

[Maddie]

Bit of hype. Yeah.

[Rhea]

A bit of work for them.

[Maddie]

I think it's safe to say some of Vivian's most enduring pieces were born in the 90s. What are kind of the top three most iconic Vivienne Westwood designs for you?

[Joanna]

I think one has to be the corset.

[Maddie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rhea]

Just in any form of the wedding dress. Like the variation. My favorite one is the classic. It's the Camille and it's the corset.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

It's beautiful at the waist and then just a drop, a line. Not too much of a skirt.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

It's just so chic and so classic. I can't recall the one that goes over the shoulders, but I've seen a few brides wear that recently.

[Joanna]

Yeah, that's a favorite.

[Rhea]

Timeless. Like, so beautiful.

[Maddie]

So timeless that I would describe those wedding dresses is that I don't think anyone will look back on those dresses in 30 years time and regret wearing them.

[Rhea]

Yeah. And this is why I have a bit of a gripe when people have an issue with some people wearing a lot of the same dress. Like, you're like, oh, it's the dress of the season. And it's like there's A reason this dress is coming up year after year after year during wedding season, because it's so iconic. It looks good on so many different women. Yeah, I've seen so many different body types look absolutely beautiful in this dress. And again, I think that comes back to the earlier conversation we had around embracing that femininity and also womanhood. And I think her styles do that, and it gives women an opportunity to feel really sexy and beautiful on a really important day, and I love that.

[Maddie]

Yeah, I think the corset kind of transcends just bridal as well. There is such an iconic corset that was printed that it's just stood the test of time. I mean, we're still seeing it now 25, 30 years on. And I think, you know, we spoke about the choker as well. I think that's just an iconic hallmark of. Of the Vivienne Westwood brand. And although Vivienne had experimented with corsets in the late 80s, her most recognizable corset, the Boucher, was born in the 90s. And she really wanted to create a corset that empowered women to feel sexy, but most importantly, comfortable. And the Boucher most notably included lycra paneling and a zip for ease of wear. Gotta love a zip. And you've got to remember that corsets traditionally were laced up.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

So the zip is a big deal.

[Joanna]

Makes it wearable.

[Maddie]

Exactly. And of course, Vivienne continued to reimagine the corset, but many of her later iterations were built from this blueprint. And the Boucher captured a new audience in 2019 when a number of It Girl celebrities like FKA twigs, Hailey Bieber, Dua Lipa, and Madison Beer were spotted wearing the original design. I mean, not a bad rap sheet of celebrities that are going to wear your iconic items. The Vivienne Westwood Pearl Choker. It also first hit the scene in the 90s and went on to become, I would argue, one of the brand's most identifiable pieces and most accessible, too. So the Boucher corset revival. In 2019, the pearl choker became the next Vivienne Westwood classic to get the Gen Z treatment throughout the pandemic. And I really think TikTok is to thank for the explosion of that piece. And fashion analysts has suggested that the renaissance may also be linked to the price point. And I think it is worth noting, you know, while a vintage Vivian Westwood corset could set you back anywhere between 600 to 3,000 USD, the Pearl Choker comes in at around 300 USD. Yeah, so it's much like things we've spoken about before, where that accessible entry point for a luxury fashion brand is often very popular, because for someone who wants to buy into or experience the brand, $300 is much more attainable, versus $3,000 for a piece of clothing that you can wear the piece of clothing and you've got a certain look. The choker, you can obviously make a lot more versatile with different outfits and things like that.

[Rhea]

Yeah, the choke is really cute. I also think a lot of Gen Z are also looking to depop ebay to find vintage Vivienne Westwood. They're looking at those corsets and going, they're obviously really trendy at the moment, but I do think they stay around for a really long time. All the corsets I have in my wardrobe, I've been wearing for ages, but I think Gen Z really just loving that look. So that's making it really popular in the secondhand retail market as well.

[Maddie]

Yeah. And I think what's important to remember is we've had Vivian's husband, Andreas, kind of throughout this 90s period. They teamed up, so he collaborated with Vivian on her label until she sadly passed away in December of 2022. And while Vivian had previously stipulated that the label should die with her, Andreas decided to continue the House of Westwood after her passing. In a piece for Oxford's Isis magazine, Kelsey Moriarty wrote, whilst designers are often inflated and canonized, it takes on an entirely new level after their death. Names can and are used in perpetuity. Work that is not the designer's own is shown under their name and sold to millions. Perhaps this is expected in life, but in death, it takes on a more sinister air. There's a lot of labels that we can name. Chanel with Croco, Chanel, Saint Laurent. Living on past Yves Saint Laurent's death. Dior, Dior. Alexander McQueen, who we've touched on. How do you feel about a label continuing on after the death of the founder and creative director?

[Joanna]

I think it depends on what their wishes are. If her wishes were for the label to die with her, I don't know how I feel about that. Like, if that's what she wanted and that has not been delivered.

[Rhea]

Yeah, I tend to agree. I think the morality of it doesn't sit well with me. But then a lot of these brands have taken investment from larger corporations who then have the control to be able to make the decisions without them being here. And I do think it is the result of a capitalist world that this keeps happening. It also doesn't just happen in fashion, it happens in music a lot of the time. Unreleased music that then record labels go out. I know what happened with Avicii.

[Maddie]

Michael Jackson.

[Rhea]

Michael Jackson. It feels uncomfortable for me. The only example where I think it wouldn't be is if the family is directly benefiting from this as a way to provide for the family or it's the family's wishes and that's been consulted with the person who's passed away prior. I think from a morality point of view, I don't love it, but I can see how the capitalist world has taken this and run with it. What do you think, Matt?

[Maddie]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree, Re. But I do think for me, fashion is so much bigger than just one person. And I think for me it's about ensuring whoever is at the helm of the house, ensuring that the creative direction is honouring and paying homage to the original creative director. And I think that's where it gets slippery when it doesn't or they depart from what they would want. And I think we see it in makeup licensing or fragrance licensing and these things where, you know, they damage or cheapen the brand and. And Dior's a perfect example of that. When LVMH bought Dior, I think they had something like 200 licenses out for the brand. I listened to the LVMH acquired podcast, but yeah, I think morality wise, if she didn't want it, it's conflicting. But I do also think, like, there's a part of so much of her was already out in the world, like if someone can come in and honor that anyway, we digress. So in the years before Vivian's death, it was reported that she was actually unhappy with the way the label was being run. And as we've mentioned, Vivian always had a strong interest in political activism and much of her campaigning in her final years was centered around dismantling capitalism, which is challenging when you run a luxury fashion business.

[Rhea]

I can't say it's a bit ironic.

[Maddie]

In response to this, the designer actually founded the Vivian foundation in 2019 with a mission to end climate change, stop war, defend human rights and protest capitalism. It's a big goal. That's a lot of KPIs. But although Vivian could live her values through the Vivian foundation, the brand still ultimately needed to make money. It's a business and Vivian reportedly had a problem with the amount of money the label's CEO, Carlo Di Mario, believed they should be making. And Even back in 2018, Vivian told the producers of Westwood Punk Icon activists. I'm still not happy with my company because at this point in time it's actually expanded too much for me.

[Rhea]

Right. So this is very much coming back to your point, Jo. It's not really. Doesn't seem to be in her best interest, the progression and the way that the company is going. So that makes me feel a bit icky.

[Joanna]

Yes.

[Maddie]

And I think ultimately it does carry her name. You know, this isn't the brand called Sex anymore.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

This is Vivian Westwood. It is a namesake brand.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

And so after she passed in 2022, the tension between the business and Vivian's values flowed down to her family. Vivian's granddaughter, Cora, Coray worked as an intermediary between the foundation and the label until last year, where she very publicly resigned and the all company email was leaked. And Cora wrote, in the years leading up to my grandmother's death, she was deeply unhappy with the way the company was being run. It was her wish that demario was removed and the company was managed in a way that respected her values. For context, Carlo began working with Vivian in the mid-80s and it's reported that his influence took the label's annual turnover from a few hundred thousand pounds to millions. So despite their tension, I think substantial jump. Yeah. I think we can't deny his influence on the bottom line.

[Joanna]

Yes.

[Maddie]

So although the public generally loved Vivienne, there has been some chatter online around the integrity of her message conflicting with that success of her label. And in a 2023 piece for fetch magazine titled why Are We Still Pretending Vivienne Westwood was Punk, Victoria Comstock Kershaw wrote, the fact of the matter is you cannot claim to be anti authoritarian while charging 1200 pounds for T shirts. I am somewhat inclined to agree with that statement.

[Rhea]

As am I. I think, look, I think, yeah, no, I agree.

[Maddie]

I thought you were going to marinate, but you're like, no, I'm going to double down. Despite the conflict behind the scenes, in the year after Vivian's passing, the label's revenues reportedly increased by a whopping 31.5%. So. So it's very much that saying, you know, fame in life is magnified in fame in death.

[Joanna]

And was that opportunistic from Andreas to then continue the label, knowing that that's generally the outcome? Or maybe Carlo as well.

[Maddie]

Totally. And we're talking millions at this point for their bottom line turnover. So 31.5% growth on millions is a lot of money.

[Joanna]

Yep.

[Maddie]

So Vivian's designs continue to really feature on the global stage. The hottest red Carpets around the world. Most recently, Alexandra Daddario, Rachel Brosnahan and Andrew Scott were spotted in Vivienne Westwood at the 2025 Golden Globes. We had Taylor Swift wear it in the Eras tour when she introduced the tortured poets department. We saw her, as we mentioned, on the Grammys red carpet. And although Vivian's granddaughter Cora has now left the business, Vivienne's widower Andreas continues as the label's creative director. It'll be very interesting to see how he manages the creative side of the house in the coming years, particularly as tensions between the brand and the Vivienne foundation escalate and are publicized with, you know, things like company wide emails being leaked. While the business may evolve and change under new leaders, Vivian's legacy lives on in many of the biggest trends we see today. But despite this, Vivienne Westwood never took herself too seriously. In an interview with the Guardian before her death, she said with a smile, what do I know about anything? I'm only a fashion designer.

[Rhea]

Yeah, I love her attitude.

[Joanna]

Thanks.

[Rhea]

I feel like she would have been someone you met and immediately was just like the energy would have just been contagious.

[Maddie]

I think she would have been magnetic.

[Rhea]

A ball of fun.

[Maddie]

And I was saying off mic before we started, I joked that I own one Vivienne Westwood piece and I bought it when Matches fashion were closing down and I bought it heavily discounted. I don't want anyone to think I would spend that on a dress, but I have to say I have never felt more beautiful in a dress. I'm by no means a curvy size, but I have, you know, a figure 8 stature and I felt like it hugged my waist in all the right places and it contoured around my bust.

[Joanna]

It's a very sexy dress and I.

[Maddie]

Just felt like so demure but sexy at the same time. And I think that no wonder her bridal collection has exploded. And I think despite maybe her not wanting the brand to evolve and continue after her death, I think she has left such a blueprint that her style and her silhouettes can remain and be reimagined with the essence of her brand still really maintaining. Yeah, at least I hope.

[Rhea]

But that's why I think it's really important to tell these stories because I don't think a lot of people would have known what we've covered today and especially the relationship that she had with the brand and her granddaughter had with the brand. So I think it's really nice that we can unpack all of that and really know the full story. And then people can go away and make their own interpretation or have their own relationship with the brand based on the fact they have this information now.

[Joanna]

So, yeah.

[Maddie]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Joanna]

We love a trace.

[Maddie]

We love a trace.

[Joanna]

We're biased, but yeah.

[Maddie]

And I know we've spoken dupe culture before, but I would argue she is being duped so much.

[Joanna]

Big time.

[Maddie]

Yeah. And that is all for this week's episode of Stylish. We know the traced episodes can be very long, so thank you for staying with us and for joining us this week. And of course, thank you very much to you, Joanna Fleming and Ree. Thank you again for filling in this week. And remember, you can drop us an email anytime at style-ishameless media.com or you can slide into our DMS over at Stylish AU. We, of course, cannot finish any episode without thanking our wonderful, shameless media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke, who rallied for this episode. And of course, our researcher, Chloe Wilson. We would be absolutely lost without you. We will be right back with you next Wednesday. See you then.

[Joanna]

Bye.

[Maddie]

Thanks, guys. Bye. Thanks, riri.

[Rhea]

Bye. This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.

[Joanna]

Always was, always will be aboriginal land.