The Sleep Generation

Summary

Podcast Summary: Style-ish Episode – "The Sleep Generation"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Style-ish
• Host/Author: Shameless Media
• Description: Style-ish is the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty.
• Episode: The Sleep Generation
• Release Date: October 15, 2024

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Introduction: Navigating Wedding Trends and Personal Style

The episode kicks off with Madison Sullivan Thorpe introducing the topic of wedding planning amidst evolving fashion trends. The hosts delve into a recent study comparing luxury and high street fashion quality, while also exploring the societal obsession with sleep.

Notable Quote:

• Ray (00:50): "I'm just excited for when I'm sick because that means I know you're going to have my chair."

The conversation quickly shifts to Ray’s frustration with the rising popularity of the color burgundy, a personal favorite and a central theme for her upcoming wedding.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray (01:14): "My word of the week is burgundy... burgundy is in fact up 53% in popularity."
• Madison (05:08): "If you love it, that's all that matters."

Headline Discussion: Luxury Fashion’s Quality Debate

The hosts address a Forbes article revealing that luxury fashion isn't necessarily superior in quality compared to fast fashion. This revelation sparks a debate on the true value of expensive brands versus their more affordable counterparts.

Notable Quotes:

• Madison (09:19): "I think that headline definitely resonates."
• Ray (09:47): "There are clearly examples where brands are just taking advantage of the marketing and the brand."

The discussion touches on the psychological impact of branding and how consumer perceptions are often swayed by marketing rather than actual product quality.

Notable Quote:

• Rhiannon (13:03): "Cos it's the same type of fabric... you're paying for brand."

The Power of Marketing: Bottega’s Social Media Strategy

The conversation shifts to Bottega’s remarkable success on social media despite having no official presence. The hosts analyze how Bottega leverages exclusivity and orchestrated campaigns to maintain high brand desirability.

Notable Quotes:

• Madison (22:36): "Bottega is one of the most fascinating examples to me because there's kind of this fan account which is new Bottega, that is huge."
• Ray (25:10): "They have built this organic relationship with these different celebrities."

They debunk the myth that an absence on social platforms equates to a lack of influence, highlighting Bottega’s strategic use of soft-launching ambassadors and creating viral moments.

Notable Quote:

• Ray (25:28): "It's just Jacob going to get a coffee."

Ad Segment: eBay’s Wardrobe Refresh Tips

A brief interlude features Ray and Rhiannon promoting eBay’s services for wardrobe management. They offer practical tips on listing items, using clear descriptions, and leveraging eBay’s AI tools to streamline the selling process.

Key Tips:

• Don’t overthink listings; there’s always a buyer.
• Use detailed, honest descriptions to build trust.
• Utilize eBay’s AI description tool for effortless listings.

Feature Segment: The Sleep Generation

Madison introduces the main topic: the societal obsession with sleep optimization, inspired by a New York Times article titled "How the Pursuit of Perfect Sleep Can Backfire." The hosts explore how this craze affects mental health and personal routines.

Notable Quote:

• Madison (31:08): "People have reclaimed their right to a full night of sleep, and they have done that without embarrassment."

The discussion reveals the pressure to achieve "perfect sleep" through gadgets and routines, often leading to anxiety and self-imposed guilt when personal sleep habits don’t align with societal standards.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray (34:15): "It's about sleep optimization and productivity."
• Madison (33:09): "I have three avenues of income... I'm trying to bloody date in there too."

The hosts share personal sleep habits, highlighting the balance between maintaining healthy routines and avoiding the trap of over-optimization that can lead to mental strain.

Notable Quotes:

• Madison (41:05): "I'm really trying to be a little bit more mindful with my skincare routine... Like, bedrooms are for sleeping."
• Rhiannon (43:11): "I take a magnesium and zinc supplement... sleep on silk pillowcases."

Swap Segment: Sharing Favorites

In the entertaining Swap segment, the hosts exchange beauty products and podcast recommendations, fostering a sense of community and shared interests.

Notable Exchanges:

• Rhiannon (43:52): Recommends the Osmosis Rescue Epidermal Repair Serum.
• Madison (47:54): Endorses the "Acquired" podcast, particularly its LVMH episode.

This segment emphasizes the importance of self-care and continuous learning within the fashion and beauty industry.

Notable Quote:

• Madison (49:26): "I feel so inspired every single time."

Conclusion: Embracing Personal Well-Being

The episode wraps up with a reflection on the necessity of tailoring sleep habits to individual lifestyles rather than adhering to societal pressures. The hosts encourage listeners to prioritize genuine well-being over the pursuit of perfection.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray (40:08): "The whole aura ring thing for me is very much about this pressure of feeling like I can optimize it."
• Madison (40:34): "Time in bed is very different to good quality sleep."

They also tease upcoming content, including the newly launched interview show "Inherited," promising continued engagement and insightful discussions on brand and business.

Final Remarks:

• Madison (51:43): "Search Inherited on any of your favorite podcast apps and get listening. Your summer road trip is sorted."

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Takeaways:

• Personal Style vs. Trends: Emphasizes the importance of staying true to personal preferences despite prevailing trends.
• Quality vs. Branding: Highlights that higher price tags do not always equate to better quality in fashion.
• Marketing Influence: Illustrates how strategic marketing can elevate brand perception beyond actual product quality.
• Sleep Obsession: Critiques the societal fixation on sleep optimization, advocating for individualized routines.
• Community Sharing: Encourages mutual support and sharing of valuable resources within the community.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• Madison (05:08): "If you love it, that's all that matters."
• Ray (34:15): "It's about sleep optimization and productivity."

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Conclusion: "The Sleep Generation" episode of Style-ish provides a comprehensive exploration of current fashion trends, the true quality of luxury versus fast fashion, and the societal pressures surrounding sleep. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the hosts offer valuable insights and practical advice for listeners navigating the complex intersections of style, well-being, and personal fulfillment.

Transcript

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Foreign. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by ebay. Buy it, love it, list it, sell it on ebay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co hosts today are Joanna Fleming. And we have another team member down and out unwell today. And we have bad gal Riri here in the studio with us.

[Ray]

I'm officially the filler host, but we love it. Thank you.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I was so excited when I walked in and I realized that you were going to be filling in today. What a treat.

[Ray]

I love that. I feel so welcome every time I get behind the mic. I don't want you guys to be sick all the time, but I do really love feeling.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm just excited for when I'm sick because that means I know you're going to have my chair.

[Ray]

You get to listen to me. Yeah, you listen to me enough.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes, that's very true. That's very true. Take today. We have a very interesting study that we're having a little peek into that compares the quality of luxury fashion versus high street fashion. Plus, we're also going to be talking about the fact we've all become obsessed with sleep in many, many different ways.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But first, Ray, I hear that you have a word of the week for us this week.

[Ray]

I do have a word of the week and we're going to be talking about this account quite a bit through this episode, but for various reasons. But my word of the week is burgundy. Where am I going with this? Elaborate, elaborate. So I saw data but make it fashion post that the color burgundy is in fact up 53%. And what I mean by that is in terms of popularity. So 53% in popularity. I'm kind of annoyed by this because burgundy is the color of my wedding theme or one of the colors that I really wanted to lean into. For those who don't know I'm getting married next year, I always find a way in May 2025. And the reason I'm annoyed is because sometimes when I see these trend posts and I love this account, don't get me wrong, I'm a marketing girly. I love trend reporting. I love forecasting. But in this instance, when it's come to planning my wedding, I've actually found it quite frustrating. And the reason why is I'm thinking, oh, okay, if Burgundy's up by 53% in popularity right now, what does that mean by the time my wedding rolls around, is it going to be out? Is everyone going to be looking at that being like, oh, burgundy is so out.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Burgundy is so October 2024.

[Ray]

And look, I know this sounds ridiculous, and I have to acknowledge that, like, I'm going to be very self aware right now. This is not that deep. But when it comes to planning a wedding so far out in advance, there are so many elements that you become a little bit overwhelmed by. And when it comes to making decisions so far out in advance, I think that's what it is for me. So when I saw this post, I was like, God damn it. And also, I've always loved the color burgundy.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Ray]

It's a color that I often like to wear.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You don't have to justify spiraling.

[Ray]

I'm so stressed. No, I think it just sparked an interesting thought for me, and I'm keen to understand what you guys think when it comes to planning a wedding and the expectations on mostly the females in the relationship to plan a wedding that looks beautiful. How do you do that 12 months in advance without being overwhelmed by trends and without being overwhelmed by people's expectations of what your wedding should look like or what's actually trending in the moment? It's really hard.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well, firstly, I don't think burgundy is going to be brat green. I think it'll still be. It'll be like chocolate brown. I. I think in my personal opinion, I think it's still gonna be very trendy when you get married. I don't think you have to be worried about that.

[Ray]

Yeah, I do think it is a colorway that has stood the test of time. But yes, I did see that post and I thought, God damn it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I just think as well, with weddings, it's so hard because so much of them has become about what is living on social media. And so when there's a trend, so to speak, we see so much of it, so we feel like it's saturated. But the reality is we're talking about a color that you love for your wedding day, and you're going to look at those photos in 20, 30 years time. And you want to make sure you're making decisions based on what you love right now, regardless of what data. But makeup fashion says. But I'm like, if you love it, that's all that matters. But because you're seeing it everywhere now, it's somehow giving you this, like, nervous energy to make a decision on something that if all those things were taken away, I don't know, that maybe you would have anxiety around it or, like, fear to make that decision.

[Ray]

Yeah, I think that's a really Fair point. I usually am quietly quite confident when it comes to holding my own personal style, holding what I love through trends. It's just interesting. When it comes to a wedding, there does feel like this added layer of pressure that people are watching and people are looking and like, no one gives a crap about my wedding but me.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's not true. I'm quite excited.

[Ray]

I'm in my head a little bit about it. And that's a really nice reminder, Mads. Thanks. Because I feel like it is something that you have to check in with. The other area of weddings that I feel like it comes into are dresses, and choosing a dress for a wedding so far out in advance as well. I feel like it has a similar sort of thread making that decision for something to be timeless and classic or being trend led. And at the end of the day, if someone wants a dress that is more trendy, that's completely fine because everyone wants different things for their wedding.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Ray]

But yeah, I saw this post and I just had this visceral reaction where I was annoyed, but when it comes to the dress, I haven't really had that. That's the one thing I felt really confident. We've spoken about this off Mike Mads. Over a few champagnes, I've been really clear about what I've wanted and I've stayed very true to my personal style. And I don't think I'll be deterred by anything. I don't think I'll lean into a trend. I feel like I know what looks good to me and I know what I want to wear and I have for a while. So that feels really clear. So all the other little elements that I think you naturally do lean to trends, you lean to inspiration. I'm thinking about Pinterest. You know, I never had a Pinterest board until I became engaged, so perhaps it's also my exposure that is influencing that mindset that I have right now in that space.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Right now, you're deep in there. One of my really good friends is a wedding planner and she talks a lot to me about, like, trends and things that are coming up and what's going to be cool in like six months time. Because they're seeing a lot of that, like, filter through. They're seeing requests for that from their clients. And it's really interesting to see, like, she was doing a wedding recently and the bride was like, oh, I'm thinking I want to do bows. And she was like, nah, bows are out. That's already done. Let's move on to something Else, let's do this instead. And already was thinking like three steps ahead of what's going to be trendy when her wedding comes around. But it's not necessary, obviously, to have a wedding planner. That's your own decision if you want to have one. But I think that can help guide you if you are really worried about what you're going to have at your wedding, what it's going to look like, and you're unsure of whether that thing is going to be cool in. I hate to say that word. Cool.

[Ray]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But it is very much like that at the moment. You kind of feel like you want your wedding to be a real vibe because everything is captured.

[Ray]

Yeah. But in the same thread, sometimes I think the most styled weddings can feel.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, I don't know, like I little.

[Ray]

Bit like it's almost over styled. So I think for me it's staying true to what I like. I'm happy to lean into some trends. If at that point in time I really like something, that's great. But yeah, I feel like I'm just gonna try and keep coming back to this point of reflection and being like, what is actually true to me, but also what is true to our relationship.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I love what you said as well about it just becoming quite. I feel like the word you wanted to say was orchestrated because they are these orchestrated productions now that we see play out all over social media and all over feeds. And ultimately it is whatever the hell you like. So even that woman who wanted the bows, I'm like, yeah, heck, if you love bows, still have bows, who cares if they're done?

[Ray]

Actually, we might have bows.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Sh.

[Ray]

But again, it's like everyone. You can't please everyone. I feel like everyone wants different things. But also it's a planner's job to predict 100%.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, that's what they.

[Ray]

That's what they're there for. That's why you're paying them money to help you and guide you. And a lot of the time they're carrying the weight of the operations of it. So it's not even just the styling, it's the heavy lifting. So I totally see the value in a planner if it's something that you can afford.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And also, just a friendly reminder, if you only have to look at fashion as a reference point, how quickly trend cycles are spinning right now. Bose will probably be back in two years anyway. So you're behind the 2024 trend. You're ahead of the 2026 one. Perfect.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm confident you're going to Be fine with Burgundy.

[Ray]

Okay, thanks, guys.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Brought that to the table and validated it.

[Ray]

That's all I needed. That's exactly what I needed.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay, so we've got a few headlines to discuss today, and I'm really looking forward to this episode. There's lots of discussion. We were having a lot of chat off mic about this episode. So our first headline. It turns out Luxury Fashion Isn't Always Better Quality. Discuss. So there was this article that came out by Forbes. It reported that a recent report by the environmental charity Hubbub, in partnership with the University of Leeds, found that there was basically no difference in quality between designer and fast fashion. Researchers wanted to see if there was a correlation between expensive clothes and quality, and they basically poked holes in the belief that cheaper clothes are more disposable than luxury items. Alex Robinson, the CEO of Hubbub said, there isn't a correlation between a price and durability, which is a very interesting comment to make. Does this surprise you guys?

[Ray]

No. Does this surprise you?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No. I think overarchingly that statement resonates, but I think it's nuanced, depending on what you're talking about.

[Ray]

Why do you think that is?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Because I think about luxury leather goods, and I think about a brand like Louisville that still makes all of their pieces in Spain. I think a brand like that, you can't tell me that a leather handbag that's being made in a fast fashion retailer has the same care and attention, but then you want to play that out in a sneaker or a canvas tote or a T shirt. I think that. Yeah, I think that headline definitely resonates.

[Ray]

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point, because I was thinking about that Dior tote bag that it came out and how much it actually cost was worth significantly worse than what it actually retails for. This bag retails in the thousands, and I think it was less than $100.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Ray]

So there are clearly examples where brands are just taking advantage of the marketing and the brand, and I think that's a really important conversation for us to have about this and the power of marketing. We'll get to that. But I do think there are some products that sit within a brand's, you know, portfolio that, as you said, Mads, justify the price tag for the craftsmanship, the amount of labor that goes into it, and also the 360 circle of, you know, where this bag is made, you know who's making it, and you know, what it's being made with. I do think there needs to be some nuance applied to that. One thing I want to call out about this piece was there was a quote that was referenced by Antoine Arnaud, who spoke at the Global Fashion Summit in Copenhagen in 2023. And this quote was actually cut off in this article. So the full quote was, I think luxury products are sustainable by nature. They are made from the highest quality materials, they are durable, and they are repairable. That second piece of that quote was actually cut off in this feature. And, Mads, I'm glad you went there in terms of the craftsmanship and where things are being made, because I do think that is an important detail to consider. Do I agree with that quote in its entirety? No. But I do think it feels a little reductive to only include the first part of that and then continue to tell a story as though that was the point he was trying to make. Yeah. I also did some other research about the broader conversation they actually had at the Global Fashion Summit where this quote was made. The broader conversation that they had on this panel was talking about and interrogating how LVMH has not done a good job. And Antoine Arnault was acknowledging that they have failed and they're not going to achieve a lot of the guidelines that they set out for. But also the reason why they initially objected against being involved in this policy that had other fast fashion brands involved in it was because he believed that LVMH as a business was bigger than fashion. And it is. They're a retailer, they have alcohol within their portfolio. They didn't feel that this was the right fit for their business model. And since those comments have been made, he's basically come out and said that he wants the luxury fashion brands to commit to their own, I guess, policy or their own, basically the luxury fashion houses to separate themselves and commit to their own cause and their own, I guess, Target, as opposed to working with fast fashion brands in that thread. So I do think, bear with me with a bit of a tangent here, but I do think that added layer of context around what that conversation is about is really important.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. And there was a quote also in the article around the consumer polling and that it showed not only do people believe that more expensive clothes are better quality, but they're more likely to look after more expensive clothes. So, like the thought around buying expensive clothes and thinking that they last longer, when in reality you just don't want to ruin them as much. And like, you're more selective with where you wear them, you're more selective with how you wash them. How you store them. So there's so many, like, bits to this puzzle and why it kind of makes sense. But also at the same time, there's so many other elements to it, like the craftsmanship side. It's just. There's a lot to unpack.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I agree, though, and I'll throw myself under the bus. I've gone and bought a 500 Gucci T shirt. I can tell you right now the quality does not compare to white T shirts I have from.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Cos I was going to say the $800 Gucci T shirt wasn't eight, it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Was five at the time. I just don't be clear.

[Ray]

Inflation now. It's a lot more than that.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It is. It's 800 now.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. But just so I don't gaslight myself, I would never spend 8. I should never say never. There's every chance one day I could, fingers crossed. Dream big. But for me, the way that I've cared for that $500t shirt versus the way that I've cared for my $60 cos t shirt is very different. And that has nothing to do with the quality and everything to do with the brand.

[Ray]

I think as well, it's the mental investment and the emotional investment when you purchase a luxury.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Good. Absolutely.

[Ray]

As part of this conversation. And the reason why people treat their things better, if they have a higher price tag or they're from a brand that they categorize as luxury. Same with sneakers. It's the same thing. You know, we always talk about Golden Goose, but it's a very expensive brand and very expensive pair of sneakers and they're doing functional. Why is they're doing the same thing as what a pair of out of this sneakers would do.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Ray]

But in terms of where I would wear those shoes are completely different places. Like, I would not wear them to a festival, but I would wear my Adidas Sambas.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Ray]

So, you know that active choice to think about where you're wearing things and making sure that you're preserving that item. Definitely plays into it. Shout out to Uniqlo, though, because Uniqlo T shirts are my ride or die.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Ray]

I feel like. And that price point's pretty reasonable.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's 1990.

[Ray]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. And I was comparing that last night to the Gucci T shirt, which is also 100 cotton, to the Uniqlo, which is 100 cotton. And there's a big price difference there. So I don't think in that case you're necessarily paying for craftsmanship, you're paying for brand.

[Ray]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Because it's the same type of fabric.

[Ray]

Definitely. But you're also paying for that quality piece. And I think a Uniqlo white tea is something that I'm wearing probably two, three times a week. It's doing multiple cycles in the wash. And I think in this study they tested, I think they wash one of the items 45 times to test the durability. And you know, a white tea can get beaten up pretty quickly. But I always find that product is something I will always go back to and rely on because it consistently performs wash after wash after wash. I do think T shirts for me are the one thing where I probably wouldn't spend a great deal of money on now, but definitely back in the day. But Mads, as you said, I think it really depends on the product and how you were interrogating.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Ray]

The process in making that product as well.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But I think your example of the Uniqlo T shirt, because there was another quote in this article that says extending the life of clothing by an extra nine months reduces carbon waste and water footprints by as much as 30% each, which I thought was really interesting. Like, if you take good care of all of your stuff and you're careful with how you wash it and like, you know, how you use it, I guess. And we can't always be careful with that. But if you try to extend even those more affordable items, it's also a 100% cotton T shirt that's going to perform the same in the wash. Then you can get a lot out of it.

[Ray]

So this is where I think brands can do more. I think there can be better education around how you should be treating your products and how you should be washing them, how you should, you know, repairing things. Yeah. One thing I always do, I really love investing in shoes, but I am so heavy footed, like naturally I will just.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You're me both, girlfriend. I am like a rhombus dumper.

[Ray]

It's not cute, but one of my left heels will always just go like, you know, it starts to wear away and it starts to make that screechy sound. I always have to get my heels replaced and I will always go to a cobbler and get them replaced and resold instead of investing in another pair of shoes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So many people wouldn't do that.

[Ray]

No, so many people wouldn't. But also that's on the consumer. That's me. But when I talk about the brand's responsibility, I think in this article Primark was listed as introducing more procedures in helping their consumers be better at repairing and extending the longevity of their products. And that is traditionally a brand that has been interrogated as being a fast fashion brand. So they're trying to address this head on in a way where they can offer services to people and keep the cost down so that they don't have to increase those costs, but instead encourage good behavior and establish free workshops for people to learn how to sew a button on, learn how to replace a zip, all of these things.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Which.

[Ray]

Guys, this sounds so basic, but I feel like most people aren't doing this. I'm not doing it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No.

[Ray]

The shoe is one example.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm guilty of fixing stuff with sewing because I learned how to sew it.

[Ray]

Guilty.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's not guilty.

[Ray]

There's nothing to feel guilty. I should be proud about that. But I feel like it's a lost art as well. My mum, you know, was always fixing our socks, sewing the holes in them. I used to get yelled at all the time, don't walk around without your shoes on in your socks and you know, fixing buttons, everything. I feel like we really need to start bringing that back. But also brands need to start, I think, facilitating workshops or environments in their bricks and mortars where you can take things back and get repaired.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It also surprises me how many people don't use laundry bags. And I think that's a really great tip because it stops your delicate items from getting ruined in the wash. And also use your delicate cycle and cold washes because they help to maintain the quality of your items so much more.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I do think there is really something in brands educating their customers on the care. And I love that point by the both of you because I think naturally brands want customers to come in as often as possible and shop with them as often as possible. But I think what they don't realize is by building that trust and affinity to hold their hand and show them how to look after what they have, that the affection for that brand will maintain, they will go back and visit that retailer because there is that extra 10% of care and consideration.

[Ray]

Yeah, I completely agree. Now I wanted to touch on this. It's about the power of marketing and brand and how this contributes a lot to, I guess, why people feel luxury brands are more sustainable. And one of the main points I wanted to talk about when it came to this article was the power of marketing and how psychology wise, we are influenced to buy things or believe that a brand is inherently better because of marketing. And I think the best case example that I can think of is Apple. So Apple hand on heart. I have every Apple Product bar and Apple Watch. So I'm a guilty consumer of this brand. I'm a huge fan in terms of how they position their brand over the years because fundamentally their product technically is inferior to a lot of their Android competitors.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Ray]

And this is arguably. Well, this is arguably a conversation that happens a lot. I feel like I've seen so many YouTube videos comparing the phone camera quality, you know, all of these things. I still buy Apple and I still love Apple. And you will be pressed to pull Apple away from my hands. Like, there is not one part of me that wouldn't want to invest in Apple product. Every single time the new phone comes out, I'm thinking, okay, I'm either upgrading or do I need to wait it out?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Is that because you are challenged or uncomfortable by the idea of what it would say about you if you pulled out an Android phone?

[Ray]

Sorry, can we all just talk about the fact that if you get a green text, it's instant ick.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Well, I lost all my data recently. I got locked out of my iPhone and text Ray because she thought I was dead, because she. I thought you were mad at me. Contact me.

[Ray]

Like, are you mad at me?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I didn't even get that text because I. And I said, Honestly, I'm 30 seconds off an Android. And Ray said, well, you'll have halved your dating pool if you're an Android user. And I was like, jesus, God, talk about shots fired there.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

The thing for me with Androids is when people share a story to their Instagram and you can tell it's shared.

[Ray]

Oh, gosh.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm sorry to be that snob, but I really. I'm also an Apple person too.

[Ray]

So the power of brand and the power of influence in this situation for me is that I've been convinced to buy a product that looks great. The marketing campaigns are some of the best in the world, and they always have been. They're gold star standard, they're clean, they're crisp, they evoke emotion. And that emotion sparks in me a connection. And the connection is what keeps me coming back. And my point is a lot of luxury brands have invested a lot in building that connection. I think Hermes is another really good example. You know, Rolex, they show you the craftsmanship, they show you the heritage of the brands you invest in this journey.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Ray]

So therefore you're more convinced that this product is sustainable because you're seeing where it came from and who made it and the families are still attached to it. I think that adds a lot to this conversation.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I think there's one more point in that convo and that's exclusivity. If something's hard to get, your perception is that it takes longer to make, there's less of them. So that mass production piece that we're used to seeing in high street or fast fashion is not something that you're affiliating with that product. So I think that's the other piece is if it's exclusive or hard to come by, you think it's made really well?

[Ray]

Yes. And that might not necessarily be the case. Like this whole study has proven that a lot of the time it isn't. Like in some scenarios it is for a specific item. And I think luxury handbags, watches, generally you do see a little bit more time, effort and craftsmanship go into that, but for the most part, not really.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And while we're talking luxury fashion, it turns out that the ones who are really achieving great success on social media are the ones who don't have it at all. As we mentioned earlier, we're going to hear a little bit more about dark of it makeup fashion, which is clearly a loved account by all of us. But they did a recent analysis about which luxury brands were most popular right now, and Bottega was found to be the most popular brand at the moment, more so than brands like the Rot and Prada. And this is despite Bottega not having any social media presence. The brand famously went dark across all of their social platforms back in 2021.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I did see all of that discussion on TikTok about the Rose fashion show.

[Ray]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And that no one was allowed to bring phones in or record anything from the show, which just adds that allure of exclusivity and everyone just wanting to know what happened there. That we couldn't bring our phones in and show everyone.

[Ray]

Yeah, it does creates exclusivity. Also, you're not allowed to take photos in their stores.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, really? I didn't know that.

[Ray]

Yeah, I tried to take a photo online.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Did you get in trouble?

[Ray]

Yeah. So I did the classic out the front one.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Which there's a reason that that's the viral photos. Right. Seriously, Bottega is one of the most fascinating examples to me because there's kind of this fan account which is new Bottega, that is huge. You would almost be mistaken for thinking it was their channel. But I think what's a really important distinction here is just because they don't have a social media profile does not mean they do not have a social media presence. And I Think Bottega have had some incredible campaigns and some very, very expertly crafted social media moments. Jacob Elordi being used in their campaign. I mean, the Internet practically broke twice over with that. I think about their most recent show, they had A.S.A.P. rocky and Jacob Elordi, and I feel like for 48 hours, my TikTok was just them quite literally looking quite delicious in the front row. They also had Jules lebron, who is famous for so demure being, you know, snapped in all these moments. And I think just because they didn't have a social channel doesn't mean they kind of haven't broken the Internet.

[Ray]

Yeah. I think what they've done really well is one, Bottega is incredibly good at soft launching their ambassadors. And I think what this creates is conversation online. Jacob Elordi is a great example of this. Yeah, I'm a big Jacob Elordi fan. Who is it? That was a bit weird. But as you said, Mads, there have been breadcrumbing Jacob Elordi's announcement as an ambassador, and people have been speculating on this for a while. He has appeared in a couple of campaigns. I also love their faux paparazzi shoots and I think they're a huge contributor to a lot of their virality and conversation because they look like they're organically being snapped. They're building this organic relationship with these different celebrities. So then when they make this announcement, people are really excited because they've already shared these. To be honest, they're quite hot and just like stylish faux paparazzi photos. I don't know if you guys know what I'm talking about in terms.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They did it with ASAP Rocky and Kendall Jenner.

[Ray]

They did, they did. And I think those sort of campaigns execute really well on social media because they're shareable, but also they get reposted a lot.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Pinterest, tick tock, fashion inspiration. They have that look and feel of it being candid and it being just papped when in actual fact, that whole thing has been orchestrated. So it's actually genius by their team in terms of creating these shareable viral moments that aren't really moments at all. It's just Jacob going to get a coffee.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. But I also think as well, I've wondered this for the longest time, if in the Jacob Elordi contract there was something that when he was out and about, like, we know there's all these fan accounts dedicated to Jacob Elordi with bags, but he was snapped in Bottega sunglasses. He was Snapped with Bottega bags out getting coffee on the way to the gym, on the way to Reeds. And I'm like, surely there was something in the contract, like, you need to be out and about and seen with these pieces for a certain amount, wearing.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

At least one to two pieces at all times.

[Ray]

So Jacob Elordi actually spoke with GQ about his bags, and he had said in this interview that he's actually never purchased a handbag. All of these bags are gifted. And then he went on to interrogate. I know, but he went on to interrogate and be like, people think, oh, I'm living this lavish lifestyle. I'm just buying all these bags. It's like every single bag I have.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Has been gifted to me.

[Ray]

And he.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Transparency.

[Ray]

That's what he wanted to do. I think he wanted to come across as, like, super transparent and wholesome Aussie boy. I know. I was like, filthy. But I think it is a really good example of how much of it is actually orchestrated. Clearly, these bags mean gifted. Clearly, they're soft launching and bread crumbing, something for us to consume as organic. But in actual fact, it's orchestrated.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. And, like, there is obviously this huge plan in the background, but on a surface level, you're like, oh, okay. They're mysterious because they don't have social media accounts. Do we think some of that is because at the moment, we're in this era of oversharing, and it's kind of a sign of true wealth to be private or 1000%.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And when I was like, thinking about this, I'm like, this is the exact same thing we spoke about, ironically, when Ri was also with us about Alexa Chung and the It Girl. And it's kind of this idea that we want you to be everything and nothing, and we want you to be a bit elusive. And I think that's where the Row in particular has really succeeded, because it is the equivalent of that girl that maybe you went to high school with or that fabulous friend of a friend who's on private on Instagram with, like a thousand followers. But, you know, she is living.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And you're like, you could so be an influencer. Seriously, I can't stalk you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I can't stalk you. Yeah, because you're on private.

[Ray]

So infuriating. Well, I don't think it's a coincidence that the founders of the row are Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen, because I feel like they've lived a very elusive life for celebrities, and they've really built a brand on stepping away from the celebrity limelight but then are arguably still so in demand, so popular, constantly referred to as it girls and icons, particularly from that that era. So yeah, I don't think that's a coincidence by any means.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. But do we feel like it's safe to say no social media account doesn't necessarily equal no social zeitgeist?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Absolutely, Absolutely.

[Ray]

It goes without saying.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

All right, great. Three out of three. Perfect.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Hey guys, Kate and Joe here and.

[Ray]

We'Re super excited to share some tips for giving your wardrobe a fresh spring reset.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yep. Whether you're making room for new pieces, clearing out what you no longer wear, or giving pre loved items a second life, ebay's got you covered. Plus you can make a little bit of extra cash along the way.

[Ray]

So first tip, don't overthink it. You might be holding onto pieces because you're unsure if anyone will want them, but trust us, there's always a buyer out there searching for your thing. Whether it's a vintage tee or high end accessory.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

List it exactly. And here's another one. Use clear, detailed descriptions when you're listing. Be honest about the condition and highlight key details like the brand size and any unique features. It helps build trust and makes your item stand out in searches.

[Ray]

Love that. And let's talk about ebay's time saving tools. The AI description tool helps you create listings effortlessly. Just remember to give your descriptions that personal touch.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

There's always money to be made through selling your pre loved pieces and it doesn't hurt to free up a bit of space in the wardrobe.

[Ray]

So, ready to jump into the reselling market? Sell it on ebay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Big thanks to ebay for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Ray]

All right guys, I'm really excited to talk about this segment. I'm very passionate about sleep and you.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Want to set the record straight after being on stylish socials talking about bedtime.

[Ray]

Jo, that is exactly what I'm here to do. That is why I'm here. No, I'm here because Annika is sick. But this is a nice to have.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hopefully sleeping.

[Ray]

I'll be asleep soon. It's very close to my bedtime. Daylight savings is actually killing me. It gets too late now. No, what I want to talk about is the sleep generation. So the New York Times recently posted an article by Kate Winsy with the headline how the pursuit of perfect sleep can backfire. Now, Joe, as you've already said, our audience care a lot about this. For those of you who don't know on this stylish TikTok account, we actually had a video receive over 30,000 likes and 1 million views that was dedicated to the Shameless Media team revealing what time they actually go to bed at night. It was literally just people saying, this is what time I go to bed. So I think this obsession in, this interest and the conversation that this then sparked once the video went live was one. Apparently, everyone in the Shameless Media office goes to bed way too early, myself included. Maddie's shaking her head, but what I loved about this piece was it explores how obsessed the generation is about sleep, how much we're getting the quality of that sleep and the levers we can pull on to optimize it. So they classify these people as the sleep maxes. They're the ones taping their mouths, wearing aura rings, buying the most expensive eye mask. They share all the tips and tricks on TikTok and social. One quote from that piece was, people, especially Jen said, have reclaimed their right to a full night of sleep, and they have done that without embarrassment. Now, first of all, I'm going to ask each of you, what time do you go to bed?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Do you want to go first?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Mads, you can go first.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

About 11:30.

[Ray]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Did you expect me to be earlier?

[Ray]

I did.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What time?

[Ray]

I thought we were going to be around 9:30. 10.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, I used to be. And I've kind of developed some bad habits of working at night because I feel my brain works a bit better at night, so I'm often on my computer until, like, 10:30.

[Ray]

Okay. Mads?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Can I just follow on before we go? To me, what time do you wake up?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Like 7:30.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm not an early riser.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna be really guilty in this chair. I go to bed. I get into bed at about 10:30, and I go to sleep anywhere from 11 till 11:30. But I get up at 10 to 6 every day.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, No, I couldn't do that. I need my full eight hours.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So do I. It's just not a luxury that I'm afforded in this current phase of my life. Yeah.

[Ray]

Too many nights out at Albert's here. Oh, yeah. That's not it. That's not it. We all live very busy.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It depends what day.

[Ray]

Now, one thing I want to ask is both of you were kind of a bit sheepish, a little bit of guilt. Yeah. Why do you have that guilt about going to bed so late?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I have a lot of shame about the time that I go to sleep because I think it's a marker of Your health and it's a marker of your self care for yourself. And I think it showcases that. I don't have a lot of self care right now. And that's probably true. I work a lot. I work on stylish, so I, you know, have that that I work on outside of a full time job. I run sales fairies. So I feel like I have 3 Avenue. I mean, we were talking about cost transparency and income transparency. I have three avenues of income. I also want to be a human in that I want to hang out with my friends, I want to read books, I want to listen to other people's podcasts. I want to walk my golden retriever for an hour and a half every morning. I want to walk him at night. I'm trying to be a good daughter and I'm sheepish because I don't think that I can do all of those things in my life and have eight and a half hours sleep. And I'm trying to bloody date in there too. So that's why I don't do that.

[Ray]

So when you read articles like this, how does that make you feel? Do you get frustrated or do you feel like it compounds that guilt?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, it totally compounds that guilt. It makes you feel awful. Because I feel like I'm not protecting my body to live in an optimized way. I'm not doing all of the right things for my health. I'm not looking after my skin. I know that skin health equals sleep health. So I'm like, great that I'm buying all these overpriced creams and you know, in some cases very well priced creams, but I'm buying all the, you know, tools and the gadgets and the things. I just feel like I'm in this constant cycle of trying to be healthy and be perfect and, you know, it's just falling short.

[Ray]

Yeah. Because I feel like we've moved really far away from it being the classic you just need eight hours of sleep and instead it's about sleep optimization and productivity. And in this article they reference, they're the ones taping their mouths, wearing aura rings, buying the most expensive eye mask. This is about selling products, in my opinion as well, and convincing people that in order for you to be the best version of yourself, that you have to optimize your sleep routine with all of these added benefits. Now, I'm not going to lie. I have thought about investing in an Aura Ring.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Same.

[Ray]

And I've had a few conversations with people who own Aura Ring and a lot of it has centered around the optimization and the productivity and also making you feel like you're living better. But in the same breath, a lot of them take it off when they're out on a night out.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They don't want the ring to know that they've been naughty.

[Ray]

So that's been the biggest thing that's held me back because I'm like, well, I do love to go out on Friday night, have some drinks. I will stay up a bit later than what I usually would and I will sit here and say I go to bed really early. Like I am poking Louie being like, can we please go to bed, it's 8:30. I've always been that way. Even as a kid, my mum was like, you were always in bed super early. I do wake up quite early as well. You know, Lou and I most mornings do go to the gym together. We're usually doing a 6am class. So generally it does balance out in terms of the amount of sleep that I'm getting. And I do think I am a good sleeper and that's a luxury. A lot of people don't have that luxury. Lou says I could sleep for Australia on a long haul flight. I'm honestly that girl who's like, oh, I slept 10 hours. Like that's just who I am. So I also think the whole aura ring thing for me is very much about this pressure of feeling like I can optimize it, I can do better. I'll be the best version of myself during the day if I'm able to, you know, measure my sleep productivity. The one feature I do like about the OURA ring though, just to try and convince myself again that I might be something I want for my birthday is it tells you how much time you actually should be recovering or if you should have a day off from exercising. And I love to exercise for my mental health and I do think that is something that perhaps if it was to tell me like, hey, you need to pull back or like you didn't have a great sleep or maybe do less of this, I would really benefit from that as well because I can fall into the trap of feeling like I have to live this really full life and constantly be doing things in order for me to feel productive and fulfilled. So yeah, I'm not sure it is an expensive investment though.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And paying for the subscription too, that puts me off. I did see a tick tock recently about an ORA Juice, so maybe I can try and find that video and we'll link it in the episode. Yeah.

[Ray]

And do a comparison.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. If you have an aura ring. Please go and buy this one and then tell us.

[Ray]

Yeah, because most of content I've seen on social media where people are reviewing the aura ring, it's quite positive.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes.

[Ray]

But then I also am very weary of people that don't do comparisons, and it's just them talking about the one product that they've actually used. So, yeah, yeah, I'm not entirely convinced.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I find it interesting because friends of mine who do have the aura ring, I'll often say, like, how did you sleep last night? And, you know, usually I'm catching up with them first thing in the morning for a walk. And a lot of them will get the app up to tell me how they slept. I'm like, how did you sleep? Not what the little ring said. You wake up and go.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Just a general vibe is fine.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But I also think it's a really interesting convo. And, like, this is incredibly vulnerable for me to share. But I got an Apple watch just before lockdown, and I became obsessed with that. And I'm talking, like, I created a spreadsheet tracker of how many steps I was doing and how many calories it told me that I burned, even though the back end did that for me. But something about putting in a spreadsheet, me feel good. And I was absolutely addicted to what that device told me was my output. And so, for me, I just don't think it's a good idea. For someone like me who has an addictive personality and who has been very privileged not to have ever kind of had an experience with distorted eating or tracking calories, like, it's just never been something that I've done. But I really found myself addicted to that piece of technology because I felt like I was being validated for my level of health or closing the ring and it being like, tick, tick, tick, you're great. When in actual fact, my mental health had probably never been worse than it was when I was day in, day out wearing that Apple watch to, like, go to sleep. And I remember, like, going for a dog walk one day and I'd left the watch at home, and I was like, I've got to go home and get the watch and then go back for another walk. So the watch knows I was a good girl. Like, you know, it's like leaving the ring at home so it doesn't know you're naughty. I had. I had the opposite of that. So I'm like, no aura ring for me. I know I've had a good sleep. If I wake up and I'm like not needing my second coffee by 11:00am.

[Ray]

Yeah, I think that's fair. What was interesting when we posted this video, we then followed it up with a what time we woke up? Because myself included, a few of us felt attacked in the comments around how early we were going to bed and people were saying like, what do you do? Like you would get nothing done during the day. Like it was interesting. And yeah, I got quite defensive because I was like, I feel like I do a lot during the day. But it felt, felt like a lot of the conversation was centering around you're either not doing enough or you're doing too much. So I just felt like, you can't win.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You can't.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh no, you can't win.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

We've got an obsession with wellbeing in this society and it flows onto so many different areas. Like, can you imagine someone in the 1950s being told that there's breath work classes now? Like, yeah, it's just we're so obsessed with it. And I don't necessarily feel guilty or bad about sleep and what time I go to bed, but when I tell people I go to bed at 11:30, they're like, oh, that's so late. Like, yeah, but my body's now in the habit of that. And then I get up most days at like 7:30 or I go to a 7:15 Pilates class. And that's not that much of a change to my routine. But I need to get that like eight hours or I'm feral.

[Ray]

Yeah. And that's what it should really come down to for you. And I think obviously Joe, you work, you're self employed.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Ray]

As well. So you need to find the routine that works.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Exactly.

[Ray]

And it's different to someone who works full time or it's different to someone who works shift work.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Ray]

Some of my girlfriends are doctors and nurses and they don't have the luxury to plan all of these things outside of what their schedule actually tells them. So the one thing I will also add about the perfect sleep and trying to make that work is it does come from a place of privilege. Like a lot of this is about investing in products that are expensive, investing in products that try and make you feel better. And I say that in like little quotations when in actual fact there are a lot of people out there that don't have that luxury.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I think time in bed is very different to good quality sleep because we are the most lonely we've ever felt, we are the most anxious we've ever been, you know, we're the most depressed we've ever been. Like a lot of people could go to bed and get in bed at 8:30 and say I wake up at 6:30. But if you're tossing and turning and struggling with anxiety and all of the things that are rattling around in your brain, the reality is even though you're in bed for 10 hours, you might not be having the best sleep of your life.

[Ray]

Not to mention a doom scroll. It's also the habits that we've picked up with technology. And yeah, what are we doing in bed? We're not just getting in and go to bed. Like when I was a kid, I would get in, I could read for a little bit and my mom would see the light on and then would yell at me saying, turn the light off, go to bed. We didn't have phones. So now you get in bed, you do a little Instagram, TikTok scroll. So that's probably also contributing to why people aren't sleeping well. So instead of just stopping doing that, we're investing in more technology to tell us to be better.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Is it counterintuitive for me to ask the two of you if you have things that you do for your sleep hygiene?

[Ray]

I don't think so. I feel like, like for me, I do. I am a very routine, driven person, but I'm not doing it because I feel like, oh, I'm a better person. I go to bed. I genuinely just love sleep sleeping and I do like getting up early and doing my exercise in the morning as opposed to doing it at night time. And that's just purely a routine thing for me. But generally I like to go to bed at the consistent time during the week in the same time. And I feel like that's probably the most important thing for me. Yeah, I always like to have a hot, cold shower, but that's usually just as a way to kind of like reset. But outside of that, not really.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I do. I have been really, really, really diligent lately at not having my phone for 15 minutes before I go to bed. Like I'm just not allowed to touch it. So I go and have a shower. That's the last time I'll touch my phone. I am really like trying to be a little bit more mindful with my skincare routine. Just as a little form of self care, whether it's a gua sha kind of those little things that just make me feel like all the senses are kind of coming in. I light a candle, use my room spray. I don't have a TV in my room. That's like something I used to have when I was like a teenager, in my early 20s as well. But now I'm like, bedrooms are for sleeping and that is what I do there. So I'm kind of like, tech off. If I can't sleep, I'll have a book. Always bedside. But, like, I live my life in such capital letters. I'm so overstimulated as a human. Like. Like, I sleep with a notebook and a pen because I know how many times I wake up in the middle of the night. And only recently have I stopped it being in my notes app in my phone. So I'm like scribbling in the middle of the night, whether it's something work related or personal related or a to do list or something in my pantry that I've got to remember to buy. Like, I just don't know that my brain actually knows how to switch off. But that's my sleep hygiene. What's yours?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I take a magnesium and zinc supplement. So Adrian and I have the same routine. Yeah, we both do it at the same time. So we'll both have the magnesium and zinc. We both have a sleepy tea. Oh, so why is that so cute? I don't know. We both have a sleepy tea and then we both sleep on silk pillowcases. Obviously. Like, it's me. I obviously do it. I do that.

[Ray]

Sorry, I left off, like, all these things.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I actually do.

[Ray]

Yeah, you're saying it. I'm like, I do that. No, I feel like vitamins. I take them in the morning, though. Is that weird?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Wet?

[Ray]

Magnesium.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Magnesium, yeah. I've just. I wonder if that's allowed to do it at night.

[Ray]

That is shaking her head saying yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I think you can take it at any point because magnesium is also for muscle recovery.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Right. Okay, great.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You know, this is a perfect segue for you two because I feel like you guys really could have gone on a ramble there, but I'm going to bring it back in all day about sleep. We love having a special guest. There's so much to cover, but we are going to do the swap. And the swap is where we bring in something that we love. It can be anything. And I love this because I hate rules. And there's no rules in this. We can swap whatever we want. So, Jo, you're going to kick us off for the swap. What have you got for us?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well, I got bullied by the production team. Literally got here and they're like, we're doing this swap today. And Joe, we've already picked yours. I was like, oh ok. It's a serum that I had recommended to head of podcast Lucy when she was asking me about her skin. And Ange, managing director of Shameless Media as well was using this serum. And I think that's how Lucy and I got on the discussion of it because Ang was using it. This serum is one that I recommend to pretty much any client that ticks happy to splurge on their consultation form and anyone that is dealing with barrier impairment or inflammation, acne, anything like that, rosacea. It's just like, like the goat of serums. It is the Osmosis Rescue epidermal repair serum. Are you looking for a pen?

[Ray]

I was about to.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Say she wanted to write it down.

[Ray]

I was honestly like I need to write this down.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You just tune in on Wednesday morning when you get up at 5:30.

[Ray]

Like I'm never gonna speak to you again. Like this one moment for me to write it down.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well, Lucy's been using it for a few weeks and I said to her last week like your skin's looking great. She's like I bought that serum. I need a Preference. It is $253. Now I know that not everyone can afford that or justify that cost which is why I only recommend it to clients that have ticked that box. Happy to splurge because there's no point having the conversation about it if it is completely outside of your budget. So while we're on the topic of that and this being an anti inflammatory serum, that's essentially what it does, helps to reduce inflammation and redness in the skin. If you can't afford that price point, the next option for me is the La Roche Posay Tellurian Ultra Dermalogro serum which I think is $58 95 maybe, maybe closer to 60 but obviously significantly cheaper than your $253 from osmosis. Sometimes Osmosis goes on sale, but very rarely.

[Ray]

Yeah, I think Luz said that she had actually found it on sale. I'm not sure where or if that sale is running.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I would certainly look out for it during Black Friday sales, Cyber weekend sales. Yeah, that's often when you'll find it discounted. But I will usually shoot clients an email when I see it go on sale. Like those that I've been like, like I think you should try this. And they're like okay, like not fully sold. I'm like it's on sale. Get it now.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm just low key, obsessed with you remembering the prices. I know price is Right. I love it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was like, wow.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But I've got to be across so many different prices because I'm across hundreds of products. So. Yeah, I tend to know that stuff off the top of my head.

[Ray]

Sorry if I'm asking something that is ignorant, but do you have a broadcast channel on Instagram?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I do, but I don't use it.

[Ray]

Okay. Yeah, but I should use it for that. Something like that, where something goes on sale. Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes. That's such a good idea. I'm so going to do that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Ray, you almost couldn't tell that Ray works in marketing.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Thank you. Development tip.

[Ray]

How can you optimize your business, Ray?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What do you got for us?

[Ray]

Okay, I have a new product. It has just recently launched and I will disclose it is a friend of mine who owns this brand. But it is such a beautiful brand and she's been working so hard on it. I really just wanted to give it a shout out. So I'm really into body brushing. I don't know if you guys are and that's part of your every shower.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's not, but I want to be that good. Yeah.

[Ray]

You know that everything shower. Yeah, that's in my rotation. So the brand is called Bicardio and you can buy this beautiful body oil dry and wet brush combo. So if you're someone who really likes that extra exfoliant, really want to like lift the dead skin, but then the body oil is so Lux.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Love a body oil.

[Ray]

Love a body oil. And I think there's a huge misconception and maybe Joe, you can speak to this around oil products making you more oily.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, it's not a thing.

[Ray]

Not a thing. Yeah. So I love this product. I love this brand. I'm so proud of Erica and the girl is behind it. They've done such a great job. I think they've been working on this for like three years.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Wow.

[Ray]

So it's been in development for a while, so I just wanted to give her a little shout out. And anyone else who's like me and loves a little extra time in the shower and investing in body brushing, you need to check it out.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I love that.

[Ray]

Mads. What are you swapping?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, pressure's on now. Okay, well, you've both gone beauty, so I'm gonna go something a little left of center. And it's another podcast.

[Ray]

Yay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I have to pre warn it is a lot longer than this episode. It is just over three hours, this podcast episode. And I know that Zara has spoken about it on Shameless podcast. Before and I know that we've also had this conversation offline, her and I, because I think the first time I met her we bonded over on mutual love of this episode. But there is a podcast called Acquired and if you're someone who's interested in Brand look, you won't have as many giggles and as much fun as you're probably gonna have with us on Stylish. But. But they're two incredible guys who both work in venture capital and one is an angel investor and they deep dive how these businesses have become who they are and really go into the history of these brands. As I mentioned, they're really long episodes, but one that is my all time favorite is the LVMH episode.

[Ray]

Just confirming this is Acquired.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The podcast acquired the podcast episode lvmh. And the reason we link that in.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

The episode notes we can. Right? Because I want to listen.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The reason I love this episode so much is because lvmh, since the beginning of time has fascinated me for a number of reasons. Succession fans, this one's for you. Because what will happen with this family is probably as fascinating to me as what will happen with the Murdochs. And also just the power of the brands that they've built. And the story of Bernard Arnault is incredible. And how he spearheaded LVMH through Dior is. Is a story that I wasn't super familiar with but have found myself going back to that episode because I feel so inspired every single time. So that's mine.

[Ray]

That is a great one, Mads. I've listened to this episode and I agree. I also have this obsession with the Arnaud family, obviously. I've just spoken at length about his son who is all his children are heavily involved in the business. But what I love about Acquired is a lot of their podcasts are actually connected. So this one is connected to the Hermes episode.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I believe the Google and Amazon episodes are also interlinked because of Jeff Bezos's investment in Google.

[Ray]

Yes, that's correct. So they're really, really great storytellers. They can be a little bit dense, but I think if you're someone who is really into marketing and brand, totally echo you. Mads, great podcast to listen to and that episode is a great one to start with.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, thanks for the recommence.

[Ray]

Fab.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So you can do that while you're dry, body brushing and using your serums.

[Ray]

That is beautiful.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hope it takes you a little less.

[Ray]

Time than three and you get a good night's sleep.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But that is all for this week's episode of Stylish. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And of course, thanks very much to you, Madison Sullivan Thorpe, and you, Rhiannon Joyce, again for joining us. Thank you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And remember, you can drop us an email anytime over at style-ishameless media.com or you can slide into our DMS over at style underscore ish au. Please don't shame Ree for her 8:30 bedtime. And please don't shame Joe and I for our 111130 bedtime.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Thanks so much. And we can't forget to thank the shameless head of podcast Lucy Hunt and podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. See you next Wednesday.

[Ray]

Thanks, guys. Bye bye.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thanks, Ray. Hey guys, it's Zara here.

[Ray]

Are you struggling this summer because all.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Your favorite shows are on break? Fear not, because our recently launched interview show Inherited is working right through the summer break. Yes, that means fresh interviews every single week. If you've not yet listened to an episode of Inherited, we ask our guests for the recipes, rules, relics and rituals that have shaped who they are today. My favorite interview so far was with Mia Friedman because of how honest and dare I say, unfiltered she was. Even though Mia hosts podcasts every single week, I feel like we absolutely saw a different side of her in this chat. Here's a little snippet.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's a weird kind of grief. Pregnancy loss. You're grieving the idea of someone you're grieving someone you've never met, someone you've got no memories of. And so what this box is full of is the ultrasound pictures that I had of her and some cards that people sent me with flowers after she died. What's hard is that you don't have any proof that she even existed.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Search Inherited on any of your favorite podcast apps and get listening. Your summer road trip is sorted.