The troubled Tarte trip

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Episode Summary

Title: The Troubled Tarte Trip
Host/Author: Shameless Media
Release Date: January 21, 2025
Description: Style-ish is the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty. In this episode, the hosts delve into a range of hot topics, including the UGG boot trademark lawsuit, Priceline’s new beauty venture Atomica, Tarte’s controversial influencer trip during the LA wildfires, and essential tips on beauty product expiry dates.

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1. UGG Boot Trademark Lawsuit

Timestamp: [02:14] – [07:14]

The episode kicks off with a deep dive into the ongoing trademark lawsuit surrounding the UGG boot. The hosts discuss the conflict between the American brand Ugg and the Australian family-run business Ugg since 1974, which has been producing UGG boots for over five decades.

Key Points:

• Origins and Trademark Issues:

  • Madison Sullivan Thorpe explains that while the Australian Ugg since 1974 has owned the trademark in Australia and New Zealand, Deckers Outdoor Corporation, a US footwear company, holds the trademark in most international markets. This has led to legal disputes as Deckers seeks to control the use of the term "Ugg" globally.

• Public Reaction and Social Media Impact:

  • The hosts reference a viral TikTok video featuring an Australian influencer advocating for Ugg since 1974, highlighting the emotional and generational significance of the brand.
  • Joanna Fleming remarks, “I felt it was a beautiful moment of vulnerability that resonated with many people.”

• Challenges for the Australian Brand:

  • Madison likens the situation to "David versus Goliath," emphasizing the difficulties a small family business faces against a corporate giant with vast resources.
  • The discussion touches on the financial and emotional toll of the lawsuit on the Australian Uggs, with concerns about limiting their market share and the potential need for rebranding.

Notable Quotes:

• Joanna Fleming [03:32]: “He pulled on my heartstrings and I was sitting there being like, we must support Australian Uggs since 1974.”
• Madison Sullivan Thorpe [05:17]: “What is right is not always what the law will sign on.”

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2. Priceline’s New Affordable Beauty Chain: Atomica

Timestamp: [07:18] – [13:10]

The hosts shift focus to Atomica, Priceline's newly launched affordable beauty chain, part of Wesfarmers Health's rebranding efforts. This venture aims to compete with established beauty retailers like Mecca and Sephora by offering a curated selection of budget-friendly products.

Key Points:

• Concept and Offerings:

  • Anika Joshi Smith describes Atomica as a beauty store featuring products priced under $40, including brands like Elf, Nyx, and Milani.
  • The store will offer services such as GLOW Advisors for tailored beauty advice and innovative tools like skin scanners to analyze skin health.

• Market Position and Comparisons:

  • The chain is compared to US-based Ulta, noted for its accessibility and wide range of products.
  • Madison points out that Atomica’s store layout emphasizes marketing and branding, aiming to differentiate from Priceline's traditional pharmacy model.

• Challenges and Opportunities:

  • Joanna Fleming expresses curiosity about whether Atomica can carve out its niche amidst strong competitors like Mecca and Sephora.
  • Discussions highlight the potential success due to a clear gap in the market for affordable beauty products and the importance of strategic branding to attract customers.

Notable Quotes:

• Anika Joshi Smith [07:18]: “Affordability is the key focus for this chain of stores.”
• Madison Sullivan Thorpe [12:51]: “Atomica is born.”

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3. Tarte’s Controversial Influencer Trip During LA Wildfires

Timestamp: [13:10] – [22:24]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Tarte Cosmetics and its recent influencer trip to the Caribbean, which coincided with the devastating LA wildfires. The timing and execution of the trip sparked criticism regarding brand sensitivity and corporate responsibility.

Key Points:

• The Trip and Its Backlash:

  • Anika Joshi Smith details how Tarte organized an extravagant influencer trip to celebrate its 10th anniversary, which occurred during the LA wildfires.
  • Madison Sullivan Thorpe mentions that while Tarte made substantial donations ($260,000 in total) and pledged to donate all net proceeds from sales during the trip week, the brand faced backlash for perceived insensitivity.

• Affected Campaigns and Real-Time Adjustments:

  • An influencer, Aspen Ovard, posted a TikTok video titled “Tarte on Fire” with influencers dressed in red, which was quickly deleted due to negative reactions.
  • Tarte responded by adjusting elements of the trip in real-time, attempting to mitigate the damage.

• Ethical Considerations and Brand Responsibility:

  • The hosts debate whether the trip was appropriate, given the simultaneous disaster.
  • Joanna Fleming critiques the duality of Tarte’s actions—making donations while simultaneously promoting a luxury trip, which may appear disingenuous to the public.
  • Madison shares insights from her background in brand marketing, suggesting that Tarte may have miscalculated the public’s perception and overemphasized the marketing aspect rather than the philanthropic efforts.

• Comparative Responses from Other Brands:

  • The discussion contrasts Tarte’s approach with other brands like Tower 28, which took a more community-focused and less self-promotional stance during the crisis, highlighting best practices in crisis management and corporate empathy.

Notable Quotes:

• Anika Joshi Smith [16:05]: “It's very easy to jump back onto tart and go, oh my God, they're so tone deaf.”
• Joanna Fleming [17:15]: “I feel really uncomfortable by it. It was like a neon themed Olympics...”

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4. Beauty Product Expiry Dates

Timestamp: [23:40] – [33:51]

The episode transitions to a practical segment on managing beauty product expiry dates, inspired by a feature from The Guardian. The hosts provide actionable tips to ensure product safety and efficacy.

Key Points:

• Audit and Tracking:

  • Anika emphasizes the importance of auditing beauty products regularly, suggesting marking products with the opening date using a Sharpie to keep track.
  • Madison humorously shares her tendency to accumulate long-unused products, highlighting the need for better management.

• Understanding Expiry Signs:

  • Joanna Fleming and Anika discuss visual and sensory indicators of expired products, such as changes in color, texture, and smell.
  • Madison adds that some products, like long-lasting lipsticks, might be kept for sentimental reasons despite potential degradation.

• Storage Tips:

  • The hosts advise storing beauty products in cool, dry places away from direct sunlight and bathroom humidity to prolong their shelf life.
  • Anika mentions how storing products improperly can accelerate expiration, particularly for sensitive ingredients like vitamin C.

• Recycling and Sustainability:

  • The segment concludes with a focus on recycling beauty product packaging through TerraCycle drop-off points at various retailers, promoting environmentally responsible disposal.

Notable Quotes:

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe [24:35]: “I can't imagine getting my La Mer moisturizing cream that is like my most prized possession...”
• Anika Joshi Smith [32:34]: “Try to keep all of your products in a cool, dry place.”

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Conclusion

In this episode of Style-ish, the hosts navigate through pressing issues in the beauty and fashion industries, offering listeners a blend of industry insights, ethical discussions, and practical advice. From the complexities of trademark disputes and new market ventures to the delicate balance of corporate responsibility and personal beauty routines, Style-ish delivers a comprehensive overview that informs and engages both enthusiasts and professionals alike.

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Notable Overall Quotes:

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe [07:46]: “UGG to me is a descriptor. I don't think that someone should be able to own the term ugg boot.”
• Joanna Fleming [13:10]: “Watch the space.”

Transcript

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Foreign.

[Kate Emmerburg]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by the iconic. Sweet or saucy. Celebrate your best friendships this Galentine's Day with a curation of thoughtful gifts.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe and my co hosts are Anika Joshi Smith and Joanna Fleming.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Hello.

[Kate Emmerburg]

Hi.

[Joanna Fleming]

Hi.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Good to be back here with you both.

[Joanna Fleming]

I know on this really beautiful, balmy, balmy pun day.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

We're already spit cinnamon. It's been about 30 seconds.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hope we pack the setting powders.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I do have some news for you guys. I've booked an appointment to have my salmon DNA injections done.

[Joanna Fleming]

I am so excited for you. Like, I just can't even contain it right now. Can I come?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

If you want? Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'll let you know when it is.

[Joanna Fleming]

I feel scared of needles, but I'm like, I just want it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I feel like we should just come for a stylish excursion.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, actually, you could. You totally could.

[Joanna Fleming]

We should.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Well, you guys know after this recording when it is and we can arrange that, but I'm looking forward to it because I don't get any other injectables. So I'm really looking forward to seeing what those results potentially are. I'm going to have the under eyes treated, I think. But obviously this is an appointment with the intention of having it done. I'll chat with my dermatologist. She's going to do.

[Joanna Fleming]

Do you mean yourself?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'm definitely not administering it myself. Expert is doing that for me. But I thought I'd give you guys that update because I know we've spoken about it recently.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I am so excited for this. I also love someone else being the test case before me.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'll document it.

[Joanna Fleming]

I cannot see it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, I won't be watching it on Instagram. I'm going Ira. But for those of you at home, you can watch it on Joe's Instagram.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

All right, enough of salmon DNA. Today we're going to explore the UG Boot trademark lawsuit. I don't know if anyone else has seen that video going around on TikTok at the moment. Tarts tone deaf influencer trip during the LA wildfires. Priceline's new affordable beauty chain Atomica, which I'm really excited to discuss and why you should be paying attention to your beauty products expiry dates, which we're going to go into a little bit of detail on for those that are due for a clean out.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Annika's looking.

[Joanna Fleming]

I know she's looking.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Down like, oh, don't look at me in the eye.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Shame. Okay, so our first headline is the Ugg boot lawsuit. And in case you missed it, there are two brands that currently exist at play here. And there's Ugg, the American brand, and then Ugg since 1974, the Australian brand.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So they're two separate names. So like Ugg and then Ugg since 1974 is their full name.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, totally.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And so Australian Ugg since 1974 has been making Ugg boots for over five decades now. It's a family ran business and it's been forced to change its name due to a lawsuit from an overseas company over the trademark that we're talking. And so the origins of the US Ugg brand started in 1978. But beyond this, the word Ugg has been used really as a descriptive term for the shoe. The same way that we talk about ballet flat.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you know what I mean? And so the Australian brand is now being sued by Decca's Outdoor Corporation, and they're a US footwear company and they're arguing over the trademark term Ugg. And Jo, I'm glad you brought up the TikTok, because I think this may be how a lot of people discovered this conversation. If you've seen it, did you guys see the TikTok?

[Joanna Fleming]

I did. A beautiful, beautiful Australian man. Just been so vulnerable.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Do you think that's part of the reason it went viral?

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, probably, but I was just. He pulled on my heartstrings and I was sitting there being like, we must support Australian Uggs since 1974.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And I think what was so interesting about that video is, you know, he was really speaking to the generational significance of their business and how long they've been producing these. It is worth noting they do own the trademark for the term Ugg in Australia and New Zealand. But what we've got with Decca is that they hold it in a vast majority of international markets. And so this is why they're arguing about it at the moment.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Why now, though?

[Joanna Fleming]

That's what I want to know.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Since the 70s, why now do you suddenly give a shit?

[Joanna Fleming]

And Dekkers acquired Ugg in 1995. So obviously there's been a lot of time that's passed.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I think it's classic David Goliath in this regard. And I think the challenge that they have is they're obviously this small family business who, when you are creating a business, you don't think about international expansion straight away. You know, you think about the resources they maybe had at that time, you're not going and checking what's trademarked in Singapore if your largest market is Australia and New Zealand. And I think, you know the things that people go like, oh, of course you'd trademark. Well, you might do that now if you're starting a brand in 20, 25. But, you know, when you're starting it in 60s, 50s, 70s, whatever that timing is, you need a big corporation to be able to do that. And it's an expensive thing to trademark a term. You've gotta go through the process. You have the opportunity for businesses within that market to oppose that trademark. Like this isn't an easy process for a brand to undertake. And it's by no means a cheap one either.

[Joanna Fleming]

Exactly. And I think on top of that as well, with ug, obviously has now become such an important name. It's a household name. And perhaps Dekkers saw that opportunity knowing that the brand hadn't been trademark and capitalize off that, the fact that this brand had built that success. And obviously now they're also leveraging a different product. From the naked eye, it looks the same, but I went in a bit of a TikTok hole on this one as well, because people gobsmacked that there was actually two different brands, two different products, but to the naked eye, the same thing. But then the quality and craft keep coming up. So I really appreciated that about the Australian Uggs, because people actually do recognise that craftsmanship, and I think they are now almost wanting to be a little bit more loyal to the fact that this brand is now being vulnerable. They're talking about their experience and that they can't compete with this huge corporation. And I think that as well, just means, you know, we should try and support these guys, the underdogs, and make sure these smaller businesses can still trade their products, which is great, because they can, I think, as well. Obviously now it's going to maybe limit their market share in quite a few areas, but hopefully they can still kind of get a little bit more creative, rebrand and make a bit more of a comeback on it.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So, just to clarify, with the lawsuit, they're basically saying you can't expand into anywhere else.

[Joanna Fleming]

They're saying you can't use the name. So now when they trade into the US and other territories, it's going to be just since 74. So Ugg, which is like what everyone knows the brand to be, that word has been taken away.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I think this is just, you know, who wins a lawsuit is usually who's got the deepest pocket to keep 100%.

[Joanna Fleming]

Joe, my lawyer always says to me, how long is a piece of string? That's crippling to the heart.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I hope that they do get an influx of support within this market, but I do think the challenge they have at hand is not just their sales and competition there, but what they are spending trying to fight this for what is right.

[Joanna Fleming]

Exactly.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And what is right is not always what the law will sign on. And I think that's the saddest part.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So we all buying a new pair of Uggs since 1970.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I absolutely am going to for sure.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm literally. I'm off to New York and fear, but it's going to be freezing. I will be trotting around and ripping those bad boys like there's no tomorrow.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

All right, let's do it. Group order maybe done.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I just also think at the end of the day, like, ugg to me is a descriptor. I don't think that someone should be able to own the term ugg boot. I just think, you know, it's like saying a ballet flat. But there's a brand who invented the term. So if anyone's gonna own it, it should be the ones who came up with it.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Bizarre, isn't it? Anyway, from one Australian brand to another, Priceline has just launched Atomica, which is a new chain of beauty stores. Wesfarmers Health, who owns Priceline, is rebranding the non pharmacy Priceline stores and then turning them into a chain that's gonna be called Atomica. So the first concept, second store opening Castle Towers in November 2024. So just recently, and then they're planning for more to follow this year. It's been drawing comparisons to Mecca and Sephora. I don't know about that. I'm keen to understand your opinions on that too. But affordability is the key focus for this chain of stores. So it's going to have a curated selection of products priced under 10, 20, 30 and $40, and stock affordable brands like Elf, Nyx, Milani, the typical kind of brands that you would find in Priceline stores. They're also going have GLOW Advisors who'll provide tailored beauty advice and in store services. They're apparently going to have a skin scanner which is going to analyze fine lines and pores and oil balance. I don't know how high tech that is going to be, but we will see. I'll be interested to pop into stores. In a statement, Karina Brazel, Wesfarmer's Health head of marketing, said we saw an Opportunity for an affordable and accessible beauty focused retail offer that delivers an inspirational in store experience featuring coveted international brands and locally loved Australian brands. Now I would love to know your opinions guys, on whether or not you think Atomica is going to be able to compete with Mecca and Sephora. Interestingly, this also aligns as well with Adore Beauty going into stores too.

[Joanna Fleming]

Well, there's clearly a gap in the market, isn't there? Like all these brands are seeing, there's an opportunity for more accessible and affordable beauty products. I don't know how they will rival Mecca and Sephora. I feel like for me, I'm like an OG Mecha girly. They have like in my opinion the best little beauty box and I would do anything, like I've said a million times for my beauty, my beauty membership, but I, I feel like everyone deserves accessible beauty at like, you know, really affordable prices. And I do think every time I go to the us, I actually love going to cvs. It's a one stop shop. You can get household pharmaceuticals, cosmetics and it's such a wide range of products. Weirdly, when I think of Priceline, I forget that they have beauty. Like to me it's like I go there to get like, you know, Hay Fever tablets but I don't go there for like that kind of service. So I excited to see the differentiation between the two and I do think it's a smart move of them to kind of branch out and have like a different entity and different name. But yeah, I. I'm not too sure Mads.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, so it's funny to me that it's drawn so many comparisons to Mecca and Sephora and I think it's naturally done that because they're the two largest players and they're multi brand retailers. But to me it kind of looked more like an all kinds store which is the kids kind of bath and body concept. Yeah, yeah, it's quite colourful. There's lots of sort of purple and injections of colour. I don't know likeness wise in terms of the store, you know, look and feel. It felt more like that. This is like marketing one on one. This entire exercise is a marketing exercise and a branding exercise because these brands were already stocked in these stores. They are not any different in the sense of that like it's the service model they've gone and what's our updated service, what's our branding going to look like? How are we going to fit out these stores to look and feel a very different way to Priceline? And so I think it's really important. Just so people are really clear, Priceline is remaining with pharmacy Atomica. There were Priceline stores that did not have a pharmacy arm within them. So they were Priceline beauty stores. Now, that is really confusing. If you're my mum going in with a script and you don't know the difference, it's confusing for me. I'm going in with the script and don't know the difference. Where I'm like, do you have an eczema cream? And they're like, no, we don't have your medicated eczema cream here.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I didn't even know that there were Pricelines that didn't have a pharmacy in them.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. And so if I was a betting woman, I would say that they had done a very, very large amount of focus groups and that a lot of people said, no, I didn't know you stock duty. Like, you have said, Annika. Or they've said, oh, I didn't know you had two different formats and went, what is the problem here? We've got a pharmacy arm, got a beauty arm, and no one knows the difference.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And so I think out of this, Atomica is born. But when we're saying, like, there's glow advisors and there's skin machines, it's very reminiscent of skin specialists, color specialists that we're thinking about. I don't think, you know, we've seen this mold before. Yeah. And I also don't think that Mecca and Sephora lack accessibility.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

In the sense that I think their ranging has changed a lot in recent years. Does it mean that there's not luxury? Absolutely not. There are, you know, still $500 candles in those environments. But you can go in and get, you know, a $14 brow pencil in there, too.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. It reminds me a lot of Ultra by Chemist warehouse.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

But we are actually going to be doing a trace to next week on Mecca and Sephora, essentially. And why. Maybe Sephora didn't take off as much in Australia as they thought it would. But I think that'll be a really interesting topic to dissect. For sure.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think they all want a slice of the pie. And I think it's funny you mention Ultra here, because I think the Atomica format for me is probably most similar to Ulta in the us Which Ulta is a little bit more accessible. The store fit out purposely don't look kind of as fabulous or sexy as Sephora. Us.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I think they're doing really well. Like, I mean, I don't think they're Doing really well. I know they're doing really well. There's a. There's a lot on them and a lot of people looking at Ulta. And I also don't think it was a mistake that chemist warehouse went for ultra thinking. Look, if you get confused and wander into our store, we're okay with that. But yeah, I'm. I'm watching this one, holding my breath because I've heard lots of whispers, having worked in the beauty industry and in branding about how many stores they are rolling out with and I. Yeah, the rumor mill is not that it's a small pathway, that it is a rather aggressive pathway.

[Joanna Fleming]

Watch the space.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Very interested to see how this pans out.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. So our next headline, I mean we're really on a beauty train here we are. Is Todd's slightly tone deaf brand trip during the L A Fires. So obviously for anyone who may have missed it all, A is in an absolute state of despair right now. And I think for anyone who has family or friends there, our heartfelt thoughts are with you. Just truly terrible time. But American Beauty brand Heart have really made a name for themselves with these rather extravagant influencer trips. They kind of were one of the first brands to ever do it. And earlier this week they were celebrating their 10th anniversary. And you know, since these troops have become such an integral part of their brand, they did celebrate with a trip. They took a bunch of influences on vacation to the Caribbean during the time of the LA fires. So by no means great timing. I think we can all agree on that. On the first day of the trip, it's worth noting that Tart did update their Instagram bio to say our hearts are with California and then shared a post stating that they had donated $10,000 in each of the influencers names who was attending the trip and shared a post that that total donation would be 260,000 USD. Yeah, so very substantial contribution at a time when it's needed. But in addition to that, they also donated 100% of their net proceeds from all TART sales from January 8th to 15th to wildfire relief efforts. So 10,000 to LA Fire Department foundation and 10,000 to California Wildfire Response Fund. Last Friday though, on the influencer trip, I do think it's worth noting that Aspen Ovard shared a TikTok revealing that one of the themed dinners on the night was called Tart on Fire with the influencers all dressed in red. And the Cut reported that she quickly deleted the video, but not before it was obviously shared quite virally online. In an official statement the brand did respond and said many elements of of the trip have been adjusted in real time reaction to LA wildfires, including the name of the night's activation.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

This is a very awkward one.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Because I think there's different avenues that we could go down. Like these trips, they typically get a lot of backlash. It is not uncommon for a tart trip to be surrounded with drama.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And so I'm conscious of the fact that it's very easy to jump back onto tart and go, oh my God, they're so tone deaf, they're doing this again, blah, blah, blah. But in the same breath, this is one of the worst disasters that LA have ever seen in history.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And I think if I was one of the creators going on the trip, I honestly would have backed out of the trip before leaving because I don't think I would want to be posting about being on a trip while people have lost their houses and their livelihoods. That personally would be my choice as a brand. If I was running the PR for the brand, I probably would have cancelled the trip.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

That's just my opinion. What do you guys think?

[Joanna Fleming]

I feel like this is such a hard one because I feel like, you know, we can really go in on them like you're saying. But there are so many elements here and I think just in terms of their reaction and their responses, they do feel quite knee jerk to me. Like obviously they have done an incredible thing by donating money and their proceeds, like that is obviously incredible.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

But then how they also chose to kind of advertise those donations, I also just felt really uncomfortable by. It was like a neon themed Olympics where it was kind of like this fun, playful event kind of again drawing more attention to the fact that they're here creating content as opposed to really speaking to the fact that we're doing this deed to help out people. Like a lot of those influence as well, I believe are from la. So it's like, you know, your guys community is also on fire. You probably have so many friends and family and networks and just other people that you personally know that are in so much strife and agony and pain right now. Yet you're choosing to like, you know, have this all expenses paid luxury kind of trip. I just felt disingenuous to me and I know, like, you know, I don't want to sit here and really go in on them. But when we look at their peers, like other incredible brands as well, who are donating and doing their part to support like ROAD and even Summer Fridays, I Think there's a really beautiful way that you can show support and be there for your community, but do it in, like, an appropriate way. And to me, this whole thing just doesn't feel appropriate.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I almost think that the advertisement of how much they've donated was a reaction to knowing they were going to get.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Flack for doing the trip 1000%. I would not doubt for five seconds that they were in a panic room going, this is really bad.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What I would guess, having worked in brand marketing before, is that they had invested significantly in the trip. Now you're assuming, what did we say, 260,000? It's 10,000. So we've got 26 influencers there. Now, Influencer trips can work in one of two ways. They can be invited and it is, we would love you to share or in return for this invitation, these are your deliverables, or it can be, here is a fee for your attendance and these are your deliverables. So not only have they got the cost of 26 people being taken to the Caribbean, their accommodation, their flights, all of those things, as well as all of the activations of that space, they've probably got fees for guaranteed placements. And now they're like, okay, we've got two options. We either pull the trip and that's the cost. Let's say it's 500,000 USD or we go, we're gonna spend 760. We were already gonna lose 500 anyway and we're going to donate.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do I think they made the right choice? Absolutely not. But I think that would have been their justification. We can offset this by doing this if we're donating 100% of proceeds during the time that everyone's on this influencer trip. At least if you're supporting Tarte, you're supporting support for la. Yeah, but I think you're so right. I look at different beauty brands and their response. Hailey Bieber's been teasing out the lip sketches from Rhode for weeks, if not months now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were intended to launch. She usually teases out about four weeks, four to six weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if that launch has been postponed. You know, she lives in the LA area now. She's an LA brand, very integral to the US as the home base Tower 28. We're doing, like drives in LA with over a hundred brands where people are invited to come and get essentials like nappies and beauty products and those sorts of things. I think this is a very different response. And I think like the tart on fire, like that, that was hard.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I think it just goes to show, even while this is happening, what brands need to be doing is like, fine tooth comb over what's in your EDMs, what's on your copy, what are your product names that might be launching, Like, I think insensitive times like this and devastation like this, you've really got to think about what's going out on the Internet a hundred percent.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Like you and I have both been in businesses when there have been things like that going on. I remember when the Australian bushfires were happening, end of 2019, early 2020. We were really cautious about what we were putting out on socials at that time. Then Covid happened, it was like, what do we, what do we even say?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

This time you've really got to like, you know, double down, have those conversations internally and figure out what your strategy is going to be for keeping the business going, especially on socials as well. You've got to be so careful.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

About that. And considerate about that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, I remember during the bushfires, we, the business that I was working for at the time, we were meant to be doing an influencer event. We pulled the event we had right up to our GM of marketing proofing copy on every single thing. Going out on a flyer in the supermarkets, to a social post, to our website. It was like, we need to make sure as a business, none of this language feels armed or offensive or insensitive because you don't want anyone to feel unsupported. It's not so you can keep selling stuff. That's never the intention. It's so that they don't feel like you are neglecting them or what their devastation is at that time.

[Joanna Fleming]

Totally.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. I think probably overall not a good move by tart and something to really think about for future trips. I don't even know if. If trips will continue to be a thing for Tart after this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I don't know where to for them, but I would certainly be wanting to do something in the LA area to give back and maybe tail between the legs a little bit.

[Joanna Fleming]

100%.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

All right, up next, staying on beauty theme, we are going to be talking about beauty expiry dates. But first, let's hear a word from today's spons.

[Kate Emmerburg]

Hi, everyone, it's Kate here and thanks for listening to this episode of Stylish here at Shameless hq. We're petitioning hard for Galentine's Day. Look, celebrating Valentine's Day with your partner is cute and all, but nothing compares to rounding up your girlfriends for a long lunch or a dinner party, handing out gifts and telling them all how much you love them. The Iconic agrees There's no bond stronger than the one that we share with our friends, and this February they're encouraging us to celebrate the friendships that mean the most to us. If you need some gift inspo, the Iconic's already done the shopping for you with a curation of on trend pink and red pieces that suit the style of every person in your group and remind them of your friendship every time they wear them for something saucier for your partner, single friends, or just the most fun party favors. You can also shop lingerie, candles and sexual wellness products. If you love the idea of celebrating your friendships this Valentine's Day, the Iconic has everything you need for the Perfect [e-mail] Thank you so much the Iconic, for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

All right, Beauty Expiry Dates In a recent feature for the Guardian, beauty writer Sally Hughes shared that she had a New Year's tradition of doing an audit of her beauty products, which I think I spoke about in our first episode.

[Joanna Fleming]

Back me.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So me have a lot in common. So her main focus is checking the expiry dates of any open products. And we've spoken about this before, kind of going through your beauty cabinet and maybe just throwing anything you're unsure of, because I think most of us don't really write the dates on the bottom of our products. But that is something that you can do with a Sharpie, right? The month that it was. The month and the year that it was opened and then you can track.

[Joanna Fleming]

It and your top shelf.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I would just love to have a.

[Joanna Fleming]

Little peek in here.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I can't imagine getting my La Mer moisturizing cream that is like my most prized possession. That beautiful pores, just a little scribble. It just feels like, you know, like when you were like facing something, I.

[Joanna Fleming]

Can imagine you holding Adrian accountable and being like, did you check the used bag on that before you put that on your face?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

See, I go through products too quickly and if I know I'm not going to finish it, it goes to him.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh my God, I'm a rationer.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Oh no. I. I've just got so much stuff that I go through it quite quickly. So I don't typically don't have to write the date. But if it's something I'd go through slowly, like a mask, for example, then I might be more inclined to just so that I know when I did open it. But Sally mentioned in her article that she applies these rules of thumb. So open skincare lasts about a year depending on the product. A change of color doesn't always mean you need to chuck it, but a change in texture. According to Sally, if the product splits, thins or becomes crystallized or smells, that means it's time to get rid of it. I would agree with that from Sally's article, but I'd also say that color change can sometimes mean that a product is off. So that's just one thing just to be mindful of. If it changes color, then also be wary of a change in smell and a change in texture too, okay? Because that's usually something that that would be One of the first things you would notice is the product's not the same color as it was previously. Some active ingredients lose potency over time and the contents of pipette or dropper bottles and open jar packaging, they tend to expire faster than product in an airless pump. But again, it is so product and ingredient dependent as well. I think she mentioned in her article too, if it's a clean beauty product or something that doesn't contain preservatives, that is something to be really mindful of with your expiries. So you might get a little bit longer out of your expiry date if your product does contain preservative ingredients. But if it's clean beauty product, then you might want to be a little bit more adherent to those expiry dates. Wet products like creams, lotions and gels have a shorter life expectancy than dry powders. So I typically will keep dry powders a little bit longer than their expiry date. Probably shouldn't do that, but I do. I'm guilty of having a Mac bronzer that I've probably had.

[Joanna Fleming]

I have five years bronzer that has honestly like seen many lifetimes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I've got eyeshadows that are older than my five year old dog.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Well, if the powder gets a greasy film on the surface, then Sally suggests gently scraping it away with a knife and then what lies beneath is likely to be fine. You could also just use an alcohol spray to spritz those things and disinfect them for foundation and primer and concealer. She says that you have about a year to use that at most for lipsticks and glosses. You can likely get a couple of years if you sanitise the bullets or applicators.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Not once in my life have I ever sanitized A bullet or an apple.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm like, who the hell does that?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I've kept lipsticks. I'm not joking. There is a lipstick in my cupboard from 2014 from an America trip I went on, and I just. It's sentimental, so I can't find.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I've got one of those. Never wear it.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'm about to.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, nice. Mine is a fluorescent pink from the Nicki Minaj Mac Club that they did.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

We were on the same. Yeah. With the hot pink.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I don't think there's any photos of me existing left on the Internet. Maybe from my MySpace days of me in that neon pink. But I really. They don't ever go anywhere.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I've definitely got some photos from me wearing the candy.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Candy. Yum, yum. Sure.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

That I can share with you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Is that going to be your wedding lip?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

It might be, yeah. Beautiful. That specific one as well. Probably got mold on it, but that's fine. Mascara has to be opened and used in a more timely manner, and I definitely agree with that. Three to six months for a mascara, they typically dry out really easily as well. So after six months, your mascara kind of feels like shit anyway.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, my God. I'm surprised I don't have conjunctivitis or a stye.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I am also surprised by that.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's like a year old.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Okay. Maybe time for a new one. Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Add to cut.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you know what I think? So important, though, when we're talking about expiry and best before in this kind of languaging, there's two different types. So there's a expiry date of a product. So generally speaking, something like a sunscreen will have expiry date.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. Glad you mentioned that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Jo's like, good girl, good girl. Taking notes. So if something says, like, best before or expiry date, that means that that is done. Yep. By that date, the little jars that you see on the back are kind of what we're talking about right now. Because if you kept a foundation in its box, if you bought it today, kept it in your drawer for three months, and then opened it, you haven't lost three of your 12 months.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That she's talking about there.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, I understand.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Feel like this is a good one, just in case people are panicking, going, oh, my God, I bought two of those tinted moisturizers.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So Sally actually said they'll most likely be good for like, three to four years.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So even if you had that in storage, which a lot of people ask me about, products that I have at Home, like, samples and, like, aren't you worried it's going to expire? I'm like, they're all unopened.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I haven't had them for that long.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I also say to people, like, how long do you think it's sitting in the warehouse.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Of wherever you bought it from, whether you bought it online or in store. Like, it has to sit in a way. It's got to be made. Sit on a shipping container nine times out of ten, one in ten, probably on air freight if you know it's a hot seller or they're late to launch. And then it's got to sit in the warehouse and then on the store shelf if you've gone into store.

[Joanna Fleming]

So we could compare these to, like, pickles.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

You know, I want to say yes, because I love you.

[Joanna Fleming]

I get it. I'm like, okay, cool. It's just like pickles.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's kind of like if you bought on a. I really didn't think we'd go down the food route. If you bought cream and it's like, good for three weeks, but once you open it, you've only got three days of cream.

[Joanna Fleming]

I understand.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, that's probably a better one.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I don't know how pickles work, but I went with cream.

[Joanna Fleming]

Pickles are like my safety food. We always have them in my cupboard or in, like, the fridge. Like, they are the go to.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Speaking of the cupboard or fridge, storage is a huge factor here. With your skincare and beauty products. Keep your stuff in a cool, dry place. If you keep your skincare on your bedroom windowsill and it gets full sun all day and you live in Brisbane, for example, your products are probably more likely to go off quicker. You're going to notice those changes in color and smell and texture. That exposure to light and heat is not doing any favors to the ingredients in your products or that formula got you. So try and keep all of your products in a cool, dry place. If it's stored in the bathroom, try and keep them in a closed cupboard if possible. A lot of products will come in, like, a tinted glass or they might come in an airless pump. So all of those things are for the product's freshness.

[Joanna Fleming]

Right.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And to increase its longevity. Things like vitamin C are typically quite hard to formulate and keep stable for long periods of time. So that's something that I would typically say. Try to use that up as quickly as you possibly can. Like, if you've opened a vitamin C and then it's sat in the shelf for 12 months, I wouldn't then go back to it. I'd probably buy a new one.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, look, and I know this probably sounds dire and people are probably going to go home and think they need to throw out half of their things, but there are some good ones. So like fragrance, you can usually get sort of three to four years because generally speaking, most fragrances EDPs are alcohol based. So the alcohol helps keep it stable. So I think, you know, small wins.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

We'll take them again storage wise as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Storage.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Fragrances not sitting on the windowsill, guys.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Cool, dark place.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And I think sometimes like we think sunlight, but also the heat from the lights that are above in your bathroom are also really important.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So it's the steam from your shower and everything as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Fleming]

You can actually get those really cute little beauty fridges from like Kmart. And like one of the girls at work has one and she always talks about it and we're like, you should literally just have like a little beauty vlog because she's always like one of those immaculate people and she's just like, I literally swear by this.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

See, I love a beauty fridge, but they're not necessary.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Oh, that's a pyramid scheme if ever.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm saying that I'm like buying it at a car.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like, oh, that is purely so that it feels cold on your face. That is what the beauty fridge is serving as a purpose sheet masks.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

What else could go in there after.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Sun gel, aloe vera.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

All of those things would be nice in the beauty fridge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And at every time, hyaluronic acid could be quite nice. Cold.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, it could be.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Don't know that it would. Its best ability. But it feels nice though.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

All of those things are designed to be at room temperature essentially, so you don't need to refrigerate your items.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's like, I always laugh when there's like certain brands where they keep fragrances refrigerated. Because I'm like, you're not delivering that refrigerated. Like, that's theater. You've gone and let that sit in a warehouse and taken it in and now you've got it in a fridge. I'm like, did it come?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, it's not getting delivered in like the blood bank car.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Little cooler bag.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, wow.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So, yeah, maybe go and check our top shelves, bottom shelves and drawers. Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Make that a January job. Just get that out of the way. Check all of your products and if something feels like it's been there too long, it probably has.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And then you can go and check out your local Atomica, Sephora or Mecca and get all new products.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And I will say as well just on a recycling element. TerraCycle drop off points are at several different retailers and I would highly recommend doing that instead of throwing your packaging straight into the bin or into your regular recycling because most of those this product's packaging cannot be recycled with your regular recycling bin.

[Joanna Fleming]

So best to go to drop off I Mecca a lot.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Priceline, L'Occitane stores, Kiehl stores I think have them. So there's lots of different places you can drop off your packaging.

[Joanna Fleming]

Amazing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Fantastic. Gonna go home and clean my drawers. Yeah. Busy day.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Is that on your to do list for today?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We're joking because I was, I've just started my fun employment era and I was saying I felt like that episode of Kath and Kim when Kath's like what to do, what to do? And I've got very, very very basic to do list. I was like apply to email, go to dry cleaners. Zara and I were laughing because she said that her husband was doing the same thing. So look fantastic. Well, probably bump into him at the dry cleaners and a terracycle drop off location once I've done my empties.

[Joanna Fleming]

Honestly, enjoy this time because I've got a feeling it won't last long.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Well, we'll see. Stay tuned. But that is all for this week's episod. Stylish. Thank you very, very much for joining us. And of course, thank you very much Annika Joshi Smith and Joanna Fleming. Remember, you can drop us an email anytime. Just no hate mail about how many of your things you might have to throw out this week. You can email us at style-ishameless media.com or you're always welcome to slide into our DMS over tyle/ish au. We also, as always, cannot forget to thank our lovely shameless media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emmerburg. We will be right back with you next week on Wednesday.

[Joanna Fleming]

Woohoo. Can't wait.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

With pickles and Swiss pickles less than three day old cream.

[Joanna Fleming]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri Land.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.