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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. This is Face To Face, our stylish miniseries, proudly brought to you by Dan Murphy's. Over these three episodes, we've been catching up with creatives who are tastemakers in their own right, carving out their paths, making an impact in their industry and inspiring us along the way. We've invited you into conversations with some of the most exciting creative minds making waves in their industries, and more importantly, the people you'd love to share a drink with. This series is all thanks to Dan Murphy's the place to discover the next big thing in beer and premixed drinks. Head into your local store or download the app and choose to drink wise. Hello, I'm Rhiannon Joyce, Shameless Media's head of Business development and stylish Friday co host. Welcome to Face To Face. Today, we're talking to the wonderful Erin Deering. Now, let me introduce you. This is quite a lengthy intro because Erin has so many amazing success stories. Erin is an entrepreneur and fashion designer and you've more than likely encountered her brands before. Alongside her partner at the time, Craig Ellis, she launched the wildly successful Australian swimwear brand Triangle. After ending up in the hands of celebrities like Kendall Jenner, the brand exploded in popularity, earning a US valuation of? 200 million and landing Erin a spot on the AFR's Young Rich List in 2015. But the success came with its drawbacks and she left triangle in 2018 to focus on building brands and companies that fed her passions. In 2024, she launched daring, a gender neutral label comprised of wardrobe essentials that's all about using fashion as a form of self care. We're lucky enough to have her here today to chat about all things fashion, beauty and lifestyle. Hi, Erin. I'm so excited to hear all about your journey and any beauty and fashion tips and tricks you're willing to share. Thanks for being here.
- [01:52]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [01:53]
A
How are you feeling this morning?
- [01:54]
B
I'm feeling good. I mean, the morning rush is always a bit crazy with my children, but it's nice to have something to come into like this.
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A
How many children do you have?
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B
Four.
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A
Four? I'm one of four.
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B
Ah, you?
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A
Yeah, I love big families.
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B
Yeah, it's chaos, but so fun. Like really, like it's, it's. And they're all. My oldest is 10 and my youngest is 3. So they're all in this really fun little phase.
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A
Do they all get on well?
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B
They get on so well.
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A
I love that.
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B
They're like a little foursome. Like a little. They all just like hang out and run around together.
- [02:22]
A
My brother's five years older than me. We're super close. And I'm actually a twin sister as well. And I have an older sister. But, yes, we're all very close. A lot of my friends come from big families of four as well. I feel like it's quite uncommon nowadays.
- [02:34]
B
Like, most people are on, but, like, whenever you hear. Whenever I say it and someone's like, I get a lot of people saying, like, I come from four, but I don't have anyone really around me. That is four. No big jard is one. She's got four. And that's kind of it. I love that. Gosh.
- [02:51]
A
We'll get into how busy you are, but running your own business and also running a family, four, that's, you know, no small feats. I'm keen to get into the details, but before we do. Yes, the start of every stylish episode, we host a segment called the Swap. So basically what we do is we come to the recording with a prepped recommendation. It can be beauty, it can be fashion. It can just be general life advice.
- [03:14]
B
Yeah.
- [03:14]
A
Erin, I know our community would love to hear what your swap is for this episode.
- [03:18]
B
Okay. I have a couple, and I didn't know which one to do, but I feel like I'm going to go with because we're coming the ones more about winter dressing. So I'm going to not do that because we're going into summer. But the other one, I'm really big on dressing with a color because I like themed dressing. You can pick a color either subconsciously. So you can either do this two ways. You can either if you're going to meet with someone and they turn up saying, like, a black outfit, or they're in a blue outfit or they're wearing white or whatever, it says a lot subconsciously about what they're trying to project. So you can either pick up on what someone's trying to sort of project at you, or you can choose the colors you wear to choose who you want to show up as. So, for example, black's quite obvious. It's for power. It's like, if you really want to, like, show up, you put black on. If you wear, like, blues, that's more like a hopeful, peaceful combination. If you wear silver or gray, it's about, like, really stepping into your feminine. So it's a really fun one to do because I like dressing in this way. Like, if I want to show up and, like, own the room, I'll wear black and silver together or gray.
- [04:19]
A
I love this what are some. You've just shared a couple of your favorite color combos. What are some of your others that you love and how. What do you attribute to those colors?
- [04:26]
B
Yeah, well, I love gray and silver. Like, love, love, love. I'm so drawn to it. So when I found out that those colors really. This feminine energy, this, like, powerful, divine feminine energy, I was like, dang. Like, I'm on. Like, that's, like, I'm so drawn to gray and silver. Like, so drawn. I think red is a really great one. Obviously, it's color of passion. I love red and pink together, which, again, if you, like, think about red and pink together, red is, like, the passionate fire fire color, and pink is the really, like, lovely, sweet, feminine, but girly feminine. So it's why a lot of people love. Red and pink together is actually because of what it spiritually sort of, like, resembles and projects out to the world.
- [05:06]
A
That's, like, my favorite. Red is one of my favorite colors to wear. So now that I know that it symbolizes passion, I'm like, okay, I'm leaning more into this. Also funny that you referenced silver and gray, because I feel a lot of your past collections had a lot of that trickled through.
- [05:19]
B
Yeah, yeah. And this was even before I really delved into it too much and didn't really understand. And then I kind of, like, did a lot of reading into it, and it made so much sense that I'm so drawn. Because you kind of think gray, maybe not silver. Silver's pretty cool. But gray is a little bit, like, flat and a little bit drab. Maybe, like, growing up, it's like school uniform colors. But now I'm getting older, I'm like, no, Gray is so powerful. And even in other collections for other luxury brands, gray is what I go to straight away. Like, I gravitate towards gray. Yeah.
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A
I think most people would be scared of gray. I do get that. What's the word? When it's, I guess, the school uniform thing, it's almost, like, institutionalized way.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, like, seen as that, like, it's been pigeonholed a bit.
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A
It was a bit dull.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But you're wearing gray right now.
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B
I'm looking dull at all.
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A
We've got that great little detail.
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B
I know you can make gray fun. Yeah. And it's so many different shades of gray.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Fifty shades of gray.
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A
Getting sexy already.
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B
It's not even the first question.
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A
So when it comes to dressing yourself.
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B
Yeah.
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A
What is your most important consideration?
- [06:18]
B
Oh, look, it does evolve, but generally for me, I'm very big on how I feel. You know, everything goes by how I feel, and a lot of that comes into proportions and getting, like, the feeling of it. Right. Which, you know, is a proportion play for me. So, like, for example, today I'm wearing an oversized shirt. I'm wearing it really casually. It's a bit undone, but then I've got, like, a micro short on with it because I like that proportion play of, like, casual up top and then something sexy on the bottom. I theme a lot of my dressing, so I don't mind pairing a color with a color. Like, I have no problem with that. Like, I'll do red shoes and a red bag. Like, I think that tonal dressing is still very cool. I think, like, it went a bit naff in sort of like the Y2K era, and we wanted to clash things more, I still think. And it was like, bridesmaid, but I actually think it's very cool. And I love full color block looks. I think, like, if you're running short on time, if you just do everything in one color, whether it's, like, all creams or all grays or all even black, it's, like, easy to do. It's always gonna look strong. And I think outerwear is a really big one for me. Like, I have summer coats, like, a very, very light, either a nylon or, like, a really light, because I think that adds drama. And I love layering. So in summer, I always find a little bit harder. And layering for me is, like, such a big one with jewelry, with accessories, with belts, with shoes. Like, I can't. Even though I love minimalist dressing, I think it has its place and it looks cool. I'm probably more of a maximalist minimalist. Like, I need to layer.
- [07:45]
A
I say that.
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B
Yeah. I can't be too simple. I have to add a flair. There has to be a flair in something I'm wearing always.
- [07:52]
A
Also, I sound like a total creeping. Like, yeah, I see that in what you wear. I do follow you. I followed you for a very long time. I'm also a huge admirer of your fashion. So when you're saying this, I'm like.
- [08:00]
B
Oh, yeah, I see. I know. I see. Yes, yes.
- [08:03]
A
I want to come back to the color blocking piece, because for me, that's always been something as an easy tool to look at my wardrobe and go, okay. If I want to feel elevated, I always revert to a color blocking. It just makes me feel more sophisticated and look more polished.
- [08:16]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. And it's It's. You can even do it with clashing colors in a way, sometimes even textures. Yeah. I think for me, it's the consideration. It's actually going. I'm going to put a look together that's for me, you know, I always try. And I don't outfit plan like the week before. I would love to. I'm envious of people that do that. I don't have time. I don't. I don't like. I don't value it enough to. To set that time aside, to be honest. But in the morning, I'll kind of have that thought process. And I like to build my outfits around one piece. I'm not. I don't build from, like, the shoe or the bag. I think people that do that, that's impressive. But, like, that just would not work for me.
- [08:52]
A
Do you usually build.
- [08:53]
B
It's usually the bottom. Okay. And it's why I always think to my is, I always think, I don't have any tops. I don't have any tops. And it's only from the bottom first. So, like, am I going to wear jeans? Am I going to wear a suit pant? Am I going to wear a skirt? Am I going to wear, like a mid. I'm going to wear a skirt with a tight, and then I build the outfit from that.
- [09:09]
A
Why do you start from the bottom? Do you think it's because it's harder to nail, or is it the thing that you find easiest?
- [09:14]
B
I think it sets the tone of my look the most. I think that it's the thing that is how I'm going to show up that day. So, like, a jean is obviously going to portray, like, a cooler, casual look. A suit pant, baggy pants going to be more tailored or more tailored, cool. And so then I kind of go with how I want. A skirt's obviously going to be more feminine, it's going to be bolder, and so that's where I go from. Whereas I think a top isn't going to set the tone for how I want to feel that day.
- [09:39]
A
As much the theme I'm getting from the first two questions you've answered, there's a lot of intention.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
When you're dressing, how did you get to a place where you could dress with intentions?
- [09:51]
B
I feel like I've done it always. Like, I've been obsessed with styling myself in my own way from it from being a teenager. And I just love putting things together based on feeling a certain way. And then I lost my way. I think, you know, you get into your 20s and then you maybe jump into herd mentality a bit and feel like, oh, I don't want to go against the grain here. I want to wear what other people are wearing. And then I found that again. I. I was, I think, you know, having kids and motherhood and having a business and having all these other things, I needed that to send to me. Like, I needed to feel good through what I chose to wear every day. So, like, I'm so obsessed with this idea of putting looks together always. Like, even if I have to leave the house for two minutes to go and drop the kids to school or pick up milk from down the street, even if it's track pants and a sandal, it's still a look that I look in the mirror and I'm like, no, I feel good.
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A
I'm proud of this.
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B
And that's not in case I bump into anyone. It's not in case anything. It's for me. It's because if I feel good, everything I put on that, I just know I'm going to carry myself.
- [10:52]
A
Yeah, look good, feel good. That saying exists for a reason. I. I definitely believe in that wholeheartedly. Who do you look to for inspiration?
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B
Oh, it's probably boring because it's like, the same people it's always been, but it's pretty hard to look past Leandra Cohen. I think in terms of personal style, she's still number one. Yeah.
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A
Just for our listeners who maybe don't know who.
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B
Yes.
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A
Can you give us a bit?
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B
Okay, so she is, like, she had a blog back in the vlogger days called Man Repeller, so she's an og and now she just does her own thing as a. As an influencer, content creator on her own. Just puts looks together, talks about fashion. She's really niched what she does and just gone back to what she loves, which is dressing every day and talking about her clothes. And she just. I mean, I don't love everything she wears. It's not my style. But in terms of how she just processes what she's putting on, like, there's no one anywhere near her level. Like, she is the absolute top of the top. I love Morgan Stewart.
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A
Oh, love Morgan Short. Also, she's just hilarious.
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B
Hilarious. So she just is funny. I. I don't think personal style is huge for her, but she's consistent. She loves fashion. Like, loves, loves, loves it. She has her wardrobe and then her office is her extension of her closet because she's run out of room. Like, I so deeply respect that. Courtney Grow is one. She's a New Yorker. She's a real Kate New York girl. The row. She's cool. Like, she's very. I tend to like people that aren't exactly where my style is because I'm just drawing reference from everyone. She's like, kind of Cali New York cool girl.
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A
Yeah. I categorize all of them. Pretty aspirational creators.
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B
They're just, like, beautiful, and they just really put out things that I just. You want more. They're the kind of content creators where you just always wanting more. And when they, like, they pop up on stories or they pop up in your feed, you're like, yay. Yeah. Because you just want to see more of what they're putting out there.
- [12:36]
A
I definitely feel that way about Morgan. All right, one more question before we take a break. This is a bit of a hypothetical.
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B
Yes.
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A
You've lost your luggage on holiday. All of the beauty products and best clothing is gone in an instant. Imagine.
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B
Oh, my God.
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A
What items are you rebuying instantly? Let's go beauty first and then fashion.
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B
Beauty first. It would be. I mean, my beauty regime is pretty minimal. So it would be sunscreen. Definitely. Even though it's really hard for me to find a good sunscreen, I'm hoping that I'm at a place where I have access to really good shopping. Otherwise, like, let's hope we're not on a remote island.
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A
Yeah.
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B
In Greece.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Let's say we're in Paris or New York. Let's just assume we're, like, somewhere really top tier. I'd be going and getting sunscreen. I'd probably be getting go to if it's available. That's my favorite sunscreen at the moment.
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A
Is that the Nifty 50?
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B
Yeah. Yeah. It's really good because it's light. It's really light. You can wear it every day. And it doesn't get all, like, thick and gooey by the end of the day. I would be dry shampoo. Oh, my God. I die without dry shampoo. I use your favorite dry shampoo, Crown affair. It's a powder. It's a powder.
- [13:38]
A
I heard of that brand.
- [13:39]
B
Yeah. So it has a brush and a powder. It's a New York brand. They sell it at Mecca. It is the. I don't like sprays. I have really. Even though I have a lot of hair, I have really fine hair. So spray just makes my hair gritty and dirty. Like, even dry shampoo spray. So this is like a powder. You. You kind of. You can't put it in your scalp because it can clog your pores in your head. That's what my hairdresser told me. But I put it kind of like all over the hair, like all the way. Like, sort of like just from roots down to mid ends. And it's an absolute saving grace. And I put it on every day. So, like, I would die without that. I would literally.
- [14:12]
A
Literally, you're right.
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B
Or not know what to do. And I would probably get my. Like, I'd have. Although I can't travel with this because I took it to Japan two weeks ago. The Dyson. And it doesn't work.
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A
Yeah. The power port. I don't know.
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B
What do you call them? Yeah, there's no.
- [14:28]
A
The voltage.
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B
Yeah, they don't work. So I use that because I always. Usually, if I get a blow wave, I brush out the front to like, refresh it. That's a big style hack. Because if I usually have like the good hair, then the face is less of a concern. And blush. I would get blush. I'd get blush.
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A
All right, so you've got a full bag. What about the fashion?
- [14:46]
B
Fashion. Yeah, fashion. I mean, I'm probably going to go and get underwear. Calvin Klein or Bonds. Always Bonds. I'm wearing Bonds today. Still hopelessly obsessed with my Bonds. But he wants to know. It's the rib, high cut bikini brief and G string. Okay. It's just so comfortable. It's like a second skin. I get them in black and in gray.
- [15:04]
A
This is so good. Our listeners love underwear wrecks. We did a whole episode on underwear. It went off.
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B
Yeah. Well, that's my, like, so comfy. They last so well. You chuck it in the wash. They're like, still soft, still good. And then the Calvin Klein low rise G string.
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A
I tried skims for a bit.
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B
I can't do skims.
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A
So the skims. This is maybe too much information. I find the crotch bit, like, too small.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Like, it's.
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B
It feels like all constricted down there. Yeah. And you're like. I don't know if, like, I want to feel like I'm bound. I'm bound. I'm like, it's not secure. It's uncomfortable. Yeah. And it's inconsistent sizing across all the fabric. So you don't. You just don't know. With skims.
- [15:43]
A
Yeah.
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B
Are you small or an extra small or a medium? I find it confusing. Whereas Calvin Klein and Bonds, I'm like, I know. And I always go up a size. So I'm getting underwear and I would be getting. I'M trying to think what's going to carry me through. I would get a. I mean, this is really boring, but I would get like a white T shirt, vintage Levi's. Let's pretend we're in New York. So they're like plentiful and some piece of outerwear. That's awesome. From somewhere good though. Like, I would use this as an excuse to, like, I wouldn't be going to Zara. I would be going, oh, no, I have, I can't waste my money. And now I'm gonna go buy the thing that my wish list is obviously like 20 pages long. So I'm gonna pick one of the things off that I'm gonna go buy it. Yeah. Because I have to.
- [16:22]
A
Absolutely. That you have on the island. It's almost like a death row meal. It's like a death row.
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B
Yeah. Like, what do you want to be wearing? And it's like I'd go, I go and I'd get. It'd be like a Phoebe Filo out of wear coat situation. Oh, yeah, yeah.
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A
I'm not quite there yet.
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B
Very me.
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A
With Phoebe Filo, I just need to save up a few more pennies before I can afford one of her pieces. But I admire it from afar.
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B
They're beautiful. You know what? I. I'm big on investing and I hate using the word investing. I'm big on.
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A
I use it all the time.
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B
I know I say my husband hates it. He's like, there's no investment. Although I have to say, I reckon a lot of the stuff, if I sold it would. It would go up in price. I reckon some of it is an investment, but it is. They are the pieces that you will be wearing when you're 60 and 70. Like, I know it. Like, I pick a coat really well. Like really well. I rarely get rid of them. They carry through. I have coats that I'm wearing from five years ago. They stay with you forever. Like a good, good coat.
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A
You can also hand it down to your daughter or your son.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, and I wear big family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'll stay in the family.
- [17:20]
A
Love that.
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B
Yeah.
- [17:21]
A
All right, we'll get back into the rest of the interview after a word from today's sponsor. Look, I love a wine bar as much as the next girl, but honestly, after a big week, one of my favorite things to to do is invite a couple of friends over for a casual dinner. I troll through my saved photos for a recipe, grab a few drinks and whip up something easy for a catch up. This weekend I'm actually thinking I'll do something simple. Salads, homemade pizza, and maybe a light pasta. But instead of opting for a wine, I'm feeling like picking up something different. Something refreshing and very spring coated. Dan Murphy's actually have a great app where you can find out what's new in store and what everyone is raving about. The Dan Murphy's team tell me. Stone and Wood have a new beer called the Radler Citrus brewed with additions of lemon, grapefruit and orange. I see these going so perfectly with pizza. The iconic Kirin Hayaketsu also comes in Mandarin now, which sounds delish. This is the vibe for spring. Casual ketchups, good food and drinks that are a little different. Dan Murphy's has so many drinks to discover and lots of flavor infusions that are ideal for this time of year. Download their app, check out what's on their radar and get inspired and remember to choose to drink wise. A huge thank you to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish possible. Let's talk about Triangle because it would be remiss of us not to in this conversation. So the idea for Triangle famously happened on a second date with your ex partner Craig Ellis, that's widely reported. Can you tell me how it came about and what gap in the market you felt Triangle was addressing?
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B
Yeah, so that, I mean, that was why we decided to do swimwear. Like, firstly, I was not a swimwear girl. I never valued putting my money into swimwear. I like, I find that we're all different in what we value, you know, like there's eyewear girls, there's shoe girls, there's handbag girls, there's swimwear girls, and there's like the hardcore fashion girls. And I would want to spend my disposable income, which was pretty small at that point, on a top or a skirt over a pair of bikinis. So I wasn't in the market for loving them. Never thought I would do a swimwear brand. Didn't grow up wearing swimwear like that, you know. So the reason why we decided do swimwear was because second date, being on a beach, it's a man 10 years older than me who had quite a reputation for being a man about town. So I was like, I gotta look good. I'm so nervous. I was so nervous around him for like the first couple of months. And so I went to find a bikini. And so during that process, it was like a Saturday morning at Chadstone and I ran around trying to find something and There wasn't anything which I'd never realized before. You know, there was surf brands, you know, there was Roxy, Billabong, Quicksilver. They were everywhere. And they were like 60 bucks. 50. 60. And then there was Zimmerman, and that was like at Chadstone, you know, like, obviously there were other brands, but that was kind of the swimwear only brands that were around. And I ended up buying Zimmerman because it was $155, which back then equivalent now would be like 500. Like, in terms of how much I was spending. Like, that was my whole, you know, that was a big deal.
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A
I. My first pair of Zimmerman bikinis I actually got for my 18th birthday. And I think at the time they were around, honestly a bit more. I think they were like $180.
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B
Yeah, they did go up to that pretty quickly. Yes, A lot of money. A lot, a lot. Anyway, so went down to the beach with my little Zimmerman bikini on, feeling really good. And Craig said, you know, oh, they're really nice. Like, they're really cool bikinis. And I was like, yeah, well. And I told him the story and him being already the businessman and 10 years older and very entrepreneurial, he was like, we should, we should start a swimwear brand. That sounds like a really big gap in the market. And I was like, yeah, sure. Thinking it was just semantics and having a chat on a second date. And lo and behold, that's what we locked into. And it just, we kept talking about it and it became the main topic of conversation on every date and every time we saw each other. And so we were just kind of like, why not? Let's just give this a crack.
- [21:10]
A
So at what point? Because it's one thing to talk about it.
- [21:13]
B
Yeah.
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A
And we all have these conversations over a few wines, you know, a few cocktails.
- [21:18]
B
We should do this.
- [21:18]
A
Oh my God. Whether it's with the friend or a partner, you actually did it though. Like, at what point did that shift happen?
- [21:25]
B
It was pretty quick. I think Craig started sort of tinkering after work. We both had, you know, full time jobs and we'd come home from work and we were living together pretty early on, and he would just be tinkering around on the computer, coming up with names and logos and drawing up, you know, ideas of bikinis and coming up with colors. And it was sort of like playing. And then it was like, well, let's do a sample. Well, let's go and do that. Let's go and do that. And then it was sort of like, well, let's go and do this, like, let's do this thing. I'm very much the kind of person who just makes my mind out really quickly about something and does it. So I think that combined with his insistence on wanting to do something again because he'd had a business already that did really well, but went bankrupt because he did wholesale and owed a ton of money to people and couldn't pay, he was keen to do something else again. So he. It just was this, like, storm in a teacup of two people being like, yeah, that's. Why not. Why not? Why not?
- [22:19]
A
That's the best.
- [22:19]
B
Why not? In our way to launch, you hear.
- [22:22]
A
A lot of people who have that light bulb moment also just lean into it, which it sounds like what you guys did. What have you learned from fusing a romantic partnership with the business partnership?
- [22:32]
B
Oh, to not do it.
- [22:35]
A
Okay, Elaborate, please.
- [22:37]
B
Do not go there. Oh, my God. I bet. I mean, I will. I will venture to my husband about everything now, but I don't really want to hear too much about what he does. And I don't want to get too involved because the separation for me is a really big deal. It was so hard to separate it. And in the beginning, that's awesome because you're together, doing it, it's exciting, it's fun. And then at some point, it just. It's too intertwined. And some people can thrive. It's really. It's. It's a case by case scenario. Some people are like, love it. Amazing. Couldn't imagine doing anything else. Love working with my husband, partner, wife, whatever, me. I was just like, can we go out on a date and not talk about the business? Just be us. And there wasn't an us. We didn't exist with that triangle. And I think that was also because we did it from the very beginning.
- [23:24]
A
I was about to say when that was the foundation of, you know, your relationship.
- [23:28]
B
Our relationship was a business together. It was triangle. It was like the third person in our relationship. We just didn't ever have a separation. And I really resented every. Like, I resented the business and him and me for that as we got, like, further down the line with it. Because it's just, I'm pretty loyal and romantic, and I am idealistic about relationships. And I just wanted it to not be like that because it was hard. I just want a romantic, you know, I don't want to be, like, lying in bed and being like, so the warehouse. Oh, my God.
- [23:59]
A
P. Ls.
- [24:00]
B
Yeah. Like, shut up. Like, let's just hang out. So, yeah. But, you know, what it was what caused triangle success because it was two people working at it furiously 24 7, essentially. So blessing. But also. Yeah, would never do it again. I would never do it again. No.
- [24:15]
A
Confidently saying that.
- [24:17]
B
Confidently.
- [24:17]
A
So the story of how you gifted triangle bikinis to friends of Kendall Jenner to get her intrigued about the brand is pretty well told. I've heard you actually talk about this on a few other podcasts. You were one of the first brands to really successfully implement a gifting strategy. Now that this is so commonplace, I'd love to know what you predict the next big evolution will be in the way that brands interact with content creators.
- [24:41]
B
I remember on one podcast I said, like, that the era of influences is dead and it's dying. And I got, like, dragged on a podcast for saying that because one of the podcast hosts was an influencer. Sorry, apologies. Look, it's. It's going through iterations constantly. I think there was obviously a period in time where, you know, after the gold rush, let's say, of content creation, where everyone got really disillusioned by it and it was like, you know, everyone was just like, influences, and it was quite negative. That has shifted. Again, there is value in it. If you were coming from the right place, talking about the right things that are aligned to who you are. And I think because now everyone's over sharing and. Or sharing so much, that's become natural to be vulnerable and to share so much. So people now know enough about you to know if you are selling that because you and people are also sometimes like, oh, it's an ad for a. Get that bag. Yeah. I feel like we've evolved into that, which I like. I think that it's moved into this. You know, we. With my business now, we didn't do any gifting for the first year. I really didn't want to. I wanted to keep it really organic. I wanted to understand, firstly, who our customers would be, what our demographic was going to be. I wanted to get all that learning behind me before I started to build relationships with friends of the brand. So we speak. And for me, I'm always so mindful and conscious and I guess a little nervous about ever positioning these people higher than our customer, because that's something that. I don't think the customer is overly annoyed about this. They know that it's the lay of the land. You have an opportunity to win your customer over by giving them some of the experiences that an influencer or content creator would get. I think some brands do this really well. They're really Mindful of that, I still think there's a huge opportunity for that and to keep them very separate and different. And for me, the one thing I say over and over again, and it's probably really relevant to content creators and creating content and picking the people you want to give to and partner with and do things with. Don't just do things for the sake of it.
- [26:43]
A
Yeah.
- [26:44]
B
Everything has to feel intentional. Word of the pod, you know, it's. It's really important. And that just means taking more, taking your time with it and building relationships. Like, we've built relationships now with a bunch of girls in Melbourne already for the brand. We haven't really touched Sydney yet. We will, but it's got to be people that have already bought from my brand or want to or are buying from similar brands. And it can be a moving target too. You know, like, you can work with someone for a bit and gift them and have. And then that can, like, move away and someone else can come in. That's how it should work too. Yeah. Because then it is organic and then it does feel like there's integrity behind it because you're picking people that you do want to actually be the mouthpiece for your brand. You know, that's important. You know, back in the Triangle era, didn't matter. It didn't matter. No one cared. It was great. Whatever. Everyone loved everyone. It was this happy time gifting, gifting, gifting. Everyone excited to get a gift. And no one was monetizing anything. And Instagram wasn't. There was no paid ads.
- [27:43]
A
So it was just.
- [27:43]
B
The algorithm was chronological. It was a good time.
- [27:46]
A
Yeah, great time.
- [27:47]
B
That time's done.
- [27:48]
A
It's a bit easier. It's not that. It's not that easy anymore, especially with meta paid partnerships.
- [27:52]
B
And it is so hard. Like, there are days when I'm like, I am done with social media. Like, I love it and hate it, you know, because it's a different beast and it's now just complete different set of skills and thought processes around how you grow, how you scale, how you interact with content creators. They're businesswomen, businessmen, they're savvy, but at the same time, they still love their brands that they love. So if you find that relationship with them, the right ones, then you can still have an organic, exciting experience where they don't need much. It's not transactional, you know, but you've got to just work harder to nurture that and find them.
- [28:31]
A
I also think the consumer is so much more switched on and can see through oh yeah, easily. If a partnership or even a gifting strategy, if it feels slightly off, you've lost the consumer straight away.
- [28:42]
B
Yeah.
- [28:42]
A
I do want to come back to your point around not gifting in the first 12 months. Talk me through how you got to that decision.
- [28:50]
B
I don't know. A lot of these. Was it smart? Not sure. Look, it was, it was just something I felt was right to do because I'd experienced it in such a different way through Triangle. It was so open season with Triangle. You know, everyone wanted to wear Triangle pretty early on. So we had everyone available to give to and we knew that they were going to post about it because everyone wanted to be seen as being gifted triangle. So it was wonderful. I knew Deering wasn't going to have the same reach and the same pull, nor did I want it to feel that way either. So I just thought, I'm going to close this off from myself and from everyone and I'm just going to focus on, you know, obviously there were, there was a little bit of gifting here and there and I wouldn't even say gifting. It was just. If I'd spoken to someone and I like them, I'd be like, here, have something. But it was only case by case, really. Only through me. There was no.
- [29:37]
A
It wasn't a strategy as such.
- [29:39]
B
No, not at all. Yeah. Like looking back, I'm like, I don't know, I probably wouldn't have been so strict on that. It just happened that way. It's not something that I think I'll look back in five years and be like, that was an amazing decision and it really built the. But you don't know. You know, I think Deering has been able to build a lot of brand integrity and positioning really quickly and perhaps a lot of it is because of that, because it has been seen as this lesser known brand through not saturating it. And I also just, I get really nervous about because Triangle was different people. Flat lays were a big thing. So even have to wear it. It's like photo. And that was enough. You know, I didn't want people being sent things that they would never wear. Then they'd put it on and it wouldn't look right and then we'd feel obliged to repost it. It's the same, that's the same issues that, that it's always been. I didn't want that for the brand in the beginning. I wanted to really own all the creative. I wanted to own what was out there. If there was any, you know, user generated content I wanted to be able to share that or that, not feel obliged because that was generally content created by people buying the pieces. So it was a slower burn, but felt it did feel a lot better to do it that way. And now that we're opening it up only a little bit, there's a lot of things we're opening up now after the first year, it does feel nicer. And everyone knows the brand now that are in that space anyway, so it's a nicer way going about it.
- [30:57]
A
Your gifting strategy, from what I've seen on socials, looks less like, here's the product, we're sending it to you. More come in. Except experience the brand. Touch, feel.
- [31:05]
B
Yeah.
- [31:06]
A
Also the experiential space that you've created. I know at the moment you're promoting your new eyewear range and that seems to be, you know, an actual sensory experience that the creators that you're working with are coming through. They're experiencing the brand firsthand. Then the product. Product is almost secondary.
- [31:21]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:22]
A
Which.
- [31:22]
B
Look, I don't know. I don't know if that's like this.
- [31:25]
A
But you're learning as you go.
- [31:26]
B
Yeah. You know, and I. I love it. I love it. Experiential retail, experiential customer experiences. You know, I. I love that side of business. It's what. It's what I want to do. It's how I want to bring a brand into the world today. So for me, I couldn't do it. I couldn't just have a gifting strategy where I sent a lookbook and said, pick your things. It just doesn't feel right for our brand. But it works for so many other brands. And I do look at them and think, oh, they're getting a big reach by doing that. You know, like, I get sent. I don't really accept much gifting at all. Like, rarely. And when I do, it's usually from the people that have done something that piques my interest. Like if I'm getting sent a lookbook just to pick a few pieces from, a lot of the time I'm like, thanks, but no thanks, because I'm actually not going to wear any of this and I don't want to just take it and then give it to a friend, like, that's. I just don't like that it's a bad energy transaction.
- [32:13]
A
You've spoken about really struggling behind the scenes with Triangle when it was at its peak, from the outside, you were living the high life. What was it about that level of success that you found most Challenging the isolation.
- [32:24]
B
Yeah, there was. I was a few things. It was the lack of connection, which is the isolation. The lack of connection was mainly driven by me in a way, because when I started to feel like I wasn't loving what I was doing, and that was like a big, you know, there's so many things at play there. It was very normal. You know, I think when you. When you come into extreme wealth, you're so busy. I'd also had my first baby at the same time, in the same year that triangle had its biggest year. It was just huge. Just huge hormonal shifts and. And physical shifts. We moved to Monaco that year and all these things. So that probably would have felt quite normal, you know, to feel a bit confused and loss of identity. But what I did was. Didn't want anyone to know that I wasn't living the dream. I didn't want anyone, family, friends, anyone to. And a few reasons. I personally felt like I wanted to keep the illusion going. And I felt really ungrateful that I was suddenly a multimillionaire with more money than, you know, anyone I'd ever known to have, and not loving my life, like, I can't. I can't winch to anyone back home who's still living paycheck to paycheck or just, you know, in their late 20s. So I just held it in. I just suppressed it. I pushed it down, I pushed it down. I push it down. I didn't see anyone, I didn't talk to anyone. I didn't do anything about it. I just was trying to push it away, which, as we all would know, if anyone does any work on themselves is not possible. You can't push them away. Just pushing them down, which is going to come out in terrible ways later down the track, which it did. So, yeah, it was really just that combination and just not being honest and not being vulnerable. And that didn't happen until I moved back to Australia. And the first time I told anyone was actually Hugh Van Kuylenberg, who I saw two days ago for. I haven't seen him in ages. We've been friends for a really long time. I've known him for years and years. And we caught up when I first moved back home. And I just was like to him. And he just started his podcast and he said, I want you to come on and tell your story. And I did. And I was still in the thick of it when I told that story. But it was the first time I was vulnerable and I felt the shift in that not only for Myself going, oh, yeah, I have a lot of work to do on myself. But realizing how refreshing it was for people to hear it because they're on their own hamster wheel thinking, if I'm just. If I get to where she is or anywhere near her, I'll be happy, too.
- [34:38]
A
I'll be fulfilled.
- [34:39]
B
Yeah. And here I was going, no, it's not the answer. I wasn't fulfilled. So it was a big shift.
- [34:45]
A
How did the people you're closest with, you were saying, you know, you found you couldn't even open up to them, and then you went on this podcast. How did they respond when you went on the podcast?
- [34:52]
B
Yeah, look, they probably knew a little bit, I would imagine, because I'd moved back to Australia very suddenly. I'd. When I exited the business in 2018, I'd stayed in Monaco for six months. That was when I got at my worst, because I felt so trapped there. Like, I'd exit a triangle. I had nothing to do every day. I hated Monaco, especially when I had nothing to do. I would have nannies come and pick up the kids, just. But I didn't do anything. Like, I just couldn't do anything. I just would, like, wander around the streets aimlessly. I didn't even. Didn't even want to shop, which was a big red flag for me if I don't want to be buying things and loving fat, you know? And so I made this, like, snap decision to move back to Australia overnight, and I left Monaco and actually didn't go back. I left my apartment fully. I had it packed up for me. Like, I just left. And so when I got home, I think my family were like, hey, what's up? You know, what's going on? And then I was sort of trying to ignore it for a little bit and not do anything about it. And then when I. When I went on the podcast was at about the same time I was starting to see some people and start to do some work and start to unpack why I was so unhappy and so miserable and so flighty. Like, I was. It was like I was disconnected from my body. It was like I was just walking around up in the clouds and watching myself being like, who is that? And how do I connect back? And it was like, truly, like, when I think back on it, it was that my spirit, like, my whole sense of self was detached from my physical body. And it was for a really long time. Yeah, it was pretty full on. I'd. I'd set myself back a lot.
- [36:24]
A
Good on you, though, for being really transparent and open about that. As you said, it is surprising when you share that one, how much of a relief you feel, but also how much it brings other people closer to you because they then can understand, oh, there's going on. But also, I liked your point around other people that were looking up to you who are also on that hamster wheel being like, oh, if I do this, I can get to where she is. It's also a nice reminder that money doesn't equal happiness.
- [36:48]
B
Not at all. Like, at all. Like, money absolutely helps with, with, you know, the finance. Financial freedom's phenomenal, and it's amazing. It takes so much stress out of it, but it doesn't mean anything if there's not a fulfillment within you or a happiness within you. You know, it's simple stuff. We all know this, but we see online people living their best lives, and we just believe that to be true. And I was living that dream life. I wasn't being vulnerable. I mean, vulnerable. You know, if it was maybe five years down the track, I'd perhaps have shared more during that time and found that. But, like, absolutely not during then, like, no one spoke on Instagram about the truth. You know, we weren't even really doing video into 2018. Video wasn't even a thing. People weren't talking to camera, really.
- [37:28]
A
You know, it's another time on the theme of money. How has your relationship with money changed since then?
- [37:34]
B
It's always evolving. It's always evolving. And I don't want to say because I feel like if you speak it into the universe, you make it true. But I've never been great with money. I've always been that paycheck to paycheck person. I don't. I've never in the past valued it as much as I should have. So when we came into all this money, there was still, I guess, a lot of fear of it going away. I used to panic that even when, you know, we were selling a thousand bikinis a day or 2000 or whatever it was, that, like, one day it would just stop. Like, I just didn't have this understanding of, Of. Of what that would, like, what I'm like, why every day or a thousand people choosing to buy a triangle bikini, this could stop tomorrow. So I had this, like, fear that it would go away and that that fear for me manifested in trying to spend as much as possible before it left, which is a diabolical way to. To think about money in a relationship to have. I've definitely become so much more mindful to be Honest though, it's not until I started this business where I really stepped into thinking about it. You know, even when I started deering, I threw a lot of money at the business that I shouldn't have. I don't regret it, but it was frivolous. And I'm now sort of like in, in this year or like the second half of the year, just starting to grow up a little more. Even with that, because it is ever evolving. Like, I didn't ever learn how to manage lots of money. And I also didn't really align with the people telling me about it that were men, respectfully older men, telling me how to manage my money a lot of the way they're telling. And like, I have a great team that manage my money. I'm not talking about them, they're amazing. But it was this one, it was just all new. Like, like, what do you do? Do you invest? Do you buy property? Do you do this? Do you do that? And for me, it was just. I didn't even want to hear about it. I was like, I don't really. Like, I just want to make more money. So, yeah, that was my thing. I was like, I just want to keep making money and to live a comfortable life. And then people like, well, what does that mean? You know, what do you want? Like, what do you. We got to protect your money. We've got to do this. That was just a lot. I still don't find that, like, you know, when I say I want to make money, it's more that I want to do something to make money. Like, I want to just, just do something that has an income for me or has a, has a purpose, you know. So, yeah, it's like constantly evolving. Triangle obviously had these lofty big, big, big numbers around it. Like, huge numbers. And everyone sees $200 million and assumes that I have. Yeah, in the bank. We, when I exited Triangle, we went on a four year legal battle and we eventually settled. And I can tell you that it was nowhere near what everyone thinks that it might be. So, like, I'm not in a financial position. Even though everyone sees me, I'll always spend a lot of money on fashion. So if you see Bottega pieces, that's not. I don't have thousands of them. I do love fashion. I will always invest and spend my money on fashion. I have literally since I was a teenager. Like, my paycheck would always go to, like, I would save up for a Subi jumper. I'd buy an Acne Studios blazer when I was like 18 years old. Like it is always top tier of what I'll spend my money on. Yeah, but I'm not as wealthy as people assume that I am. And that's fine as well. You know, I think that the relationship I have with, with money has gotten better. The more I talk about that too, the more I'm like honest with that. Because again, there's this projection of me being a certain way and people put, people probably put me on a pedestal thinking that I never have to worry about money again. I don't have to worry about money. Like, I don't worry, but I have to be mindful of it because people can also spend hundreds of millions of dollars like you. You like. There's those stories every day of people that get investments wrong. And that was my thing too. I didn't want to invest in things and, and I didn't want a property portfolio. That was crazy because I just didn't want to have to manage it and I just wanted to simplify. So like, I have a few nice things now that are assets that are protecting me and the rest goes into my business and I don't pay myself a salary. And I love that. I actually love the normalcy, like the, the normality of that. You know, the thing that I hated about having so much money that I've realized was I didn't want to live in that upper echelon of that wealth level. It is a really, it's fine, but it's not a place I want to be in it for me, and maybe this is my own stuff I need to work on, but it represents disconnection and it represents isolation. I really love the normal life that we have now where, yes, I'm in a fortunate position, but it's normal. You know, I'm not like rolling around buying a Lamborghini, thinking about, you know, first class holidays with families to hear and there. I don't know how to raise kids if I'm worth hundreds of millions of dollars and they're coming into generational wealth. Like, I don't want that on my plate. It's just a lot more work that you have to put into your children, which is fine to do, but I would just rather it be a more normal experience that I had. And they do have that, you know, they, they do like they, they would. I mean, they go to a great school and it's. We live in a great area, so there's a lot of privilege there. I'm not saying there isn't, but it's not detached.
- [42:26]
A
I mean, also, when you're one of four as well, your siblings keep you humble.
- [42:30]
B
Oh, yeah, there's no. Yeah, like they're not, you know, like, they don't.
- [42:33]
A
They're not precious.
- [42:34]
B
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. There's none of that. They're like, pretty real.
- [42:37]
A
So you told AFR you were terrified of being on the Young Rich list because it was at odds with Triangle's affordable, accessible branding and because you felt like an imposter. Did Craig ever worry about that perception?
- [42:49]
B
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, we asked them to not be on the list. We didn't want to. And they would just every year put us in. I think we were in it for five years in a row, but we asked them to not put us in. And then every year they would send an email and they would guesstimate our net worth. There was no. They did. They'd do it off the occasional interview that we give or whatever article that was written and they would just guess and then they'd put that in. And I loved it for my dad because he was so proud. And like, you would be, you know, like, that's cool. That's like a really big deal for a parent to have their kid in their young rich list. And like I. And I secretly loved it because like, anyone that, like ex boyfriends, I'd be like, huh, you look into that?
- [43:28]
A
Do you think the consumer ever clocked it or. No, didn't affect us.
- [43:31]
B
No. Like, we obviously really didn't want to be positioned in that way because, you know, that was really, really true. We didn't want that perception. But, like, no one, because we didn't live in Australia, we were never really put in the tall Poppy syndrome category. I've never really experienced it, you know, and I really do think that's because we were obviously for it. So we just.
- [43:50]
A
If we were.
- [43:51]
B
If we were here out in the public doing things, you know, and we were two founders that stayed very much behind the scenes on purpose, we would have experienced that, but we didn't. And I feel like it was something that just would come out and it was a bit of a non event, you know, we never heard anything about it. It never affected anything. Our customer database also for Triangle, was predominantly in the US so, like. Right. They're not looking at the Young Rich list.
- [44:14]
A
No.
- [44:14]
B
For an Australian little small fry. For them. Yeah. No, they don't really. They're really caring. So it didn't really impact anything other than, you know, my dad was proud.
- [44:26]
A
I love that my Parents would be so proud as well.
- [44:28]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [44:28]
A
So according to your website, after Triangle, you vowed never to return to the fashion game, famously. What changed?
- [44:35]
B
Yeah, it was a few. I mean, you know, I wrote a book and I was done a podcast, and I'd done. I'd done everything else. I was, like, mentoring and advising and looking at maybe then investing in other businesses. And I just had this weird sort of just ping. And it was kind of there, but I just ignored it because I just didn't think that I had it in me. And then when I wrote the book, the process of writing the book was like closing the chapter for Triangle. And that chapter closing is what allowed me the space to go. I actually really do want to do this. Like, I'm not done, and I want to do something that I want to do, and I want to put something out into the world that feels really good. Zach, my husband, recalls we were on the book tour and walking from Bondi to Bronte, and on the walk from Bondi to Bronte, I was talking about something else. On the way back, I was like, I'm going to start a fashion brand. And he's like. And you just did. You were in the middle of selling your book booked, and you just were like, pivot, bang. And then I did, and then it was three months later. We were working on it, and I had a small team, and it was. It was happening.
- [45:34]
A
So one thing we can gather today is you're a doer.
- [45:37]
B
Yeah.
- [45:37]
A
You say something, you do it. So this was 2024. You've launched your fashion label, Deering. Obviously, fashion is an incredibly oversaturated market.
- [45:45]
B
Yeah.
- [45:45]
A
How did you make sure that Deering would stand out?
- [45:48]
B
For me, the intention behind the brand that everyone has that, you know, every founder and creative director and designer has an intention. They know what they want to put out. They know the feeling. They know they have the integrity. I wanted to verbalize that a little more. I wanted to put that in the forefront of. Of what I was doing and why I was doing it. And so I felt like that would be a pretty strong differentiator. I also saw a gap. I still see a gap in the global market for the price point that we're at, that real mid tier, that isn't an elevated basic. I agree there's great. And I look, I love, you know, sometimes dressing like that sometimes. But I wanted to bring something that had a little bit of flair but still in that casual dressing area. You know, we've got a lot of the simple brands which are beautiful. And then we've got event dressing, but we don't have that in between. Kind of like the golden era of, like the Sasson bides. And when Zimmerman did a bit more, they're a little. They're still girly dressy, but a little more casual in there as well. They went down that path and there was like, Shakahachi and Maureen. Eve are really big and they were fun. It was fun fashion. There's not much like that in the Australian market. And it's time for a few more brands to put out some stuff that's more fun.
- [46:53]
A
I agree. It's also. Sometimes I look at the Australian landscape and if you took the label off, everything looks the same, same.
- [47:01]
B
And I'm. I'm so fearful of that. It's why, like, everything has a little design detail and all these differentiators, all these little, like, touch points. Everything's very considered in that way because I need that to make a decision. For me to want to wear something, it needs to have that just enough.
- [47:16]
A
It's a point of difference.
- [47:17]
B
Yeah.
- [47:18]
A
The consumer sees that as well, though, in the details. And I feel as a shopper, I'm gravitating more towards brands where I feel like they have more of a distinctive voice, look and feel.
- [47:27]
B
Yes.
- [47:28]
A
Don't get me wrong, I'm sitting here wearing head to toe Australian brands, like, very standard outfit. But there are times when I'm investing in everyday pieces where I wanted to say a bit more.
- [47:36]
B
Yeah.
- [47:37]
A
Like, do more.
- [47:38]
B
Yeah. And you know what? Also the landscape is still very much in the simple, beautiful, chic looks. Like I'm still finding myself doing that, you know, like, it's there, I think, you know, And I was so excited to see Fashion Month wrap with all these. These brands doing really exciting, developmental, experiential, texture, color, all this play. Because that, I guess it's quite luxury or that minimalist. That aesthetic is definitely because it's so cyclical fashion. You just want to be in at the right time, you know, like, if during had launched five years ago with this offering, it, it wouldn't have jumped to where it's kind of jumped to already, but because people are starting to kind of go, oh, like, oh, I think I can pull that off. Do that. Like, I think I want to actually, like, I think I've worn enough simple stuff every day and now I want to add that little bit in.
- [48:27]
A
I'm there. That's me for sure.
- [48:29]
B
Yeah.
- [48:29]
A
So Triangle gave you a playbook for building a successful brand, but I'M really keen to know what you're doing differently with daring. Other things you did with Triangle that you wouldn't do now?
- [48:38]
B
No, no. I mean, yes. The, the, the carefree gifting strategy is, is just not of this time for our brand. So that I'm not doing. But a lot of it's really similar, the customer experience, putting the customer first, a real focus on the packaging, a real focus on the customer care side of it being always available. That is something that is, is. It's more that the things are actually the same. A lot of it is the same. But I would never gift in that same way. Obviously at Triangle and I did this at the start of Deering. I tried to, even though I called the brand my surname, I was trying to stay behind the scenes. I didn't want to be found alleged. But I'm kind of realizing that was a silly decision to want to do that because a lot of the customers really like the alignment with me. You know, a lot of people are following me. They're following Deering for my style. They're seeing how Deering is an extension of my style. And I'm like, why am I not leaning into that? Like I don't have to get on and be like, you know, talking about like the intricacies of the business, but talking about it with a creative lens was silly to not lean into that. So I'm leaning into that more as we go along. And at Triangle we obviously would not have have ever touched that as a front facing kind of as founders.
- [49:50]
A
Interesting. So I would love to know what are your trend predictions or projections for the upcoming season going by?
- [49:58]
B
I'm trying to think how much of a reference what we've just seen in this fashion month plays into it. But I think for spring, summer it's going to be a lot of like midi skirts, a dropped waist, a lower rise. I think people are going to dress up, up more. So a bit more embellishment, a bit more sequins.
- [50:16]
A
I'm seeing a lot of sequins.
- [50:17]
B
Yes. Yeah. And I think sequins like mixed back with like just a T shirt. It's how I like to dress. Like we keep, we don't make it all full on. We just have like a very casual bit with like one punchy piece. You know, it's hard to. I'm. I'm hesitating on saying this because everything that we're doing at Deering over spring, summer I feel is what I'm trying to do because I feel like it's Going to be what's popular, you know, because you always want to be. Right. Like I want. I'm like a mainstream brand. I'm commercial. I'm trying sell some stuff. I'm not going to do anything that's polarizing to that. So I'm just trying not to say too much. That feels like a pitch. Well, everyone's going to be wearing. But I think, you know, it's summer, right. So we want easy dressing. We want like a little touch point that's a little fun. So that's why obviously we're so big on sets. Because for me, it's time. Poor dressing. It's like get up in the morning, you put that on with that and you're ready to go. I still love a texture combination clash. I think we saw that with all the best shows of the season this year. You know, Chanel, Bottega, Mumu always do it. They're clashing things a little bit. I think that that's fun. I think in summer you can do it more and look less crazy because in winter there's more layers. So there's more opportunity to. Yeah, but like in the summer you can like, do you know, you can do it with an accessory. I think that, yeah, we're just it. I hope that it's a summer of a bit more experimental and a bit more fun. You know, I want. I personally want people to be trying a little bit more to dress up for the everyday and experimenting with things. Like, for example, we have this incredible embellished skirt that's coming out in a couple of weeks. It's really dressy, but like wear it to work with a T shirt.
- [51:53]
A
Yeah.
- [51:53]
B
Or a tank and a sandal. You don't have to save it for the big event because the thing is, that's what's predictable is to wear it to the event on a Friday night. Like wear it to work on a Wednesday and still wear it to the event on a Friday night. Do it all.
- [52:04]
A
Do it all.
- [52:04]
B
Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at that with the trend predictions. I also. It's going to be a big shift to get people out of minimalist. I think that everyone's very comfortable with that at the moment. But hopefully we're all just going to experiment with like one thing, have a little bit more fun.
- [52:17]
A
Right. Aaron, thank you so much. You've given us so much. I also did go off script quite a bit because I just loved so many builds of the questions that you had. Thank you for sharing. Our pleasure with us. And I'm so excited to see where Deering goes. It is such a progressive, exciting brand, and you've done such an amazing job, and I really appreciate your time.
- [52:36]
B
My pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys. This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.